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Mulch
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Post Post #2125  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:33 pm

In post 1817, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:
In post 1816, EeveeLution Army wrote:Hmm. I only have a slight townread on chickadee from MMMs reactions. I wouldn't 100% oppose it. But i couldn't stop you if you wanted to hammer.

This is inexcusable at this point.

I am claiming a guilty on the slot. Do you not believe and if so why?


This is something interesting I noticed.

ReplacedIn
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Post Post #2126  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:38 pm

Frogger, lets run down what's happened here;

I've stated that with the 2 scum being inside a pool of 4 players there's technically 6 scum teams for me to assess. Then did some hard ISO reading and completely ruled out FF-Eeve being a scum team and thought that Yourself-Massive were less likely based on the way you were setting up to push on him, the comment from you re; wanting to talk to Eeve after Mulch claimed read as you potentially setting up an excuse to push Eeve over Massive, a play that'd make plenty of sense with Massive as a partner thus I retracted my comment about You-Massive not being a possible team. How exactly is that difficult to understand or comprehend?

It's far less a "Froggers action there makes me think he's likely scum" and more a "I think that negates my reasoning for ruling out that scum team".

Mulch
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Post Post #2127  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:40 pm

In post 2126, ReplacedIn wrote:Frogger, lets run down what's happened here;

I've stated that with the 2 scum being inside a pool of 4 players there's technically 6 scum teams for me to assess. Then did some hard ISO reading and completely ruled out FF-Eeve being a scum team and thought that Yourself-Massive were less likely based on the way you were setting up to push on him, the comment from you re; wanting to talk to Eeve after Mulch claimed read as you potentially setting up an excuse to push Eeve over Massive, a play that'd make plenty of sense with Massive as a partner thus I retracted my comment about You-Massive not being a possible team. How exactly is that difficult to understand or comprehend?

It's far less a "Froggers action there makes me think he's likely scum" and more a "I think that negates my reasoning for ruling out that scum team".


This feels fake.

Fro99er
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Post Post #2128  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:40 pm

In post 2120, ReplacedIn wrote:Was waiting on Massives claim to talk about the setup speculation completely, not to vote. If you'd actually read how the day has played out I'd voted him before he actually claimed. And by "Put this on you", you mean not entirely rule out Massive-You being a pairing which I'd previously done so? The whole "Going to ask Eeve a question" felt like a set up to vote there over massive, obviously not what you've done but reading it at the time was something that I'd contemplated.

Not a setup, it's me trying to tie eevee to either massive or FF based of their reaction to my Q but alls lost now.

I BASE my game off tying people together. That's how I won best town in MAFIACEPTION. I drove that town because I tied titus to pepto.

yeah I preflip associate. I self-meta. That's my fucking game and I don't give a fuck if you all think it's bad. It works for me.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

Mulch
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Post Post #2129  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:42 pm

Self meta is considered scummy but personally I disagree. I think it's a powerful tool and can really highlight someone's townyness when scum aren't prepared to do it properly.

Fro99er
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Post Post #2130  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:43 pm

I self meta every game
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

Fro99er
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Post Post #2131  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:44 pm

Every. Fucking. Game.

I actually use it as a scumhunting tool, and mulch is definitely town for how they talked about it.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

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Post Post #2132  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:45 pm

In post 2131, Fro99er wrote:Every. Fucking. Game.

I actually use it as a scumhunting tool, and mulch is definitely town for how they talked about it.



Explain this

ReplacedIn
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Post Post #2133  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:48 pm

In post 2128, Fro99er wrote:Not a setup, it's me trying to tie eevee to either massive or FF based of their reaction to my Q but alls lost now.

I BASE my game off tying people together. That's how I won best town in MAFIACEPTION. I drove that town because I tied titus to pepto.

yeah I preflip associate. I self-meta. That's my fucking game and I don't give a fuck if you all think it's bad. It works for me.


Then we're very different type of players, I think there's some gain in attempt to narrow down worlds and scum teams and keeping in mind who doesn't work together or who might but think that's only just one tool to use and not the main one to focus on barring certain situations. I think pointing out how X can work with lots of the universally agreed upon scum reads is solid, I think making a case by tying X to Y pre-flip is bad play. Ultimately I'm looking at read progressions and players thoughts and seeing how they flow v how they've acted upon them. Anyway I don't really want to get into a huge theoretical discussion plus I doubt I'd change your mind on it. I think there's a huge disconnect between Massive's read on MMM, how he interacted with him, what he did with the read and what he did in general throughout D2. The way he handled the situation is one that I struggle seeing from town but think makes a lot of sense as mafia.

Mulch is definitely town for lots of reasons, the most obvious one being Arona targeting him, how he's talked about self-meta is not one of the reasons though.

Mulch
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Post Post #2134  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:48 pm

UNVOTE:

I think I have made up my mind on whom I am going to vote.

Mulch
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Post Post #2135  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:54 pm

Also, I would like to say that so far I haven't actually been that bad.

I heavily protested against the Tchill lynch, I pushed hard for the Chic lynch. And through ways neccecary I've made myself near lock villa (though the mechanical clear helps).

Fro99er
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Post Post #2136  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:58 pm

@Mulch examples

When I self meta and people accuse me of being scum for it, they are almost always scum:
viewtopic.php?p=7299362#p7299362 (BBT called me out for self-meta/WIFOM...BBT was scum)
viewtopic.php?p=7185807#p7185807 (Aero calls me out for self-meta...Aero was scum)
viewtopic.php?p=7233708#p7233708 (Sakura calls me out for self-meta...Sakura was scum)
viewtopic.php?p=7387205#p7387205 (Prozac calls out self-meta...Prozac was scum)
viewtopic.php?p=7405616#p7405616 (Titus calls me out for self-meta...Titus was scum)
viewtopic.php?p=7338212#p7338212 (Fire calls me out for self-meta...Fire was scum)
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=70624 (my own scumbuddy called me out on it)
viewtopic.php?p=8922516#p8922516 (Alisae...MY OWN SITE BFF calls me out for self-meta....Alisae was scum. I hadn't used the trick on Ali yet at that time)
this was ME as scum calling someone else on the WIFOM/Self-meta (viewtopic.php?p=6995964#p6995964) ... see...I even did my own scumtell in my very first scum game.

when I self meta and people try to understand what i'm doing, they are almost always town.
here: viewtopic.php?p=7262038#p7262038 (not called out on it)
here: viewtopic.php?p=7135564#p7135564 (not called out for it)
You here -- you're trying to figure out what the deal is, not just accuse me of being scum for it.

And usually I'm not called out for it by town. But if they do, it's in an analytical way, like you're doing here, which is why my town sample size is so small. My hypothesis is that it's so easy for scum to latch on to and call it out as scummy, whereas town just take it as part of the analysis.

I obviously can't use the self-meta tell with another player more than once, because then they know what's up. But nobody in this game I have I used it with before.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

Fro99er
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Post Post #2137  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:59 pm

In post 2133, ReplacedIn wrote:how he's talked about self-meta is not one of the reasons though.

Based off my experiences, yes it is.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

Fro99er
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Post Post #2138  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:59 pm

In post 2133, ReplacedIn wrote:I think making a case by tying X to Y pre-flip is bad play.

Then you're never going to like playing with me.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

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Post Post #2139  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:00 pm

but you know...call me out for bad play
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

Mulch
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Post Post #2140  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:00 pm

Holy shit

Mulch
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Post Post #2141  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:00 pm

I was actually about to vote FormerFish cause I thought there was a decent chance of Former/Frogger team until I saw those examples

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Post Post #2142  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:01 pm

People telling me I use "bad play" happens all the fucking time, but it's how I play, and it works.

DGAF what you think.
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

Fro99er
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Post Post #2143  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:03 pm

In post 2142, Fro99er wrote:People telling me I use "bad play" happens all the fucking time, but it's how I play, and it works.

DGAF what you think.

@RI
"I officially announce Fro99er the king of guilties because this is the second time he has guiltied a slot I was really unsure about.
Heil King Froggo.
Ribbit ribbit." -Transcend

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Post Post #2144  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:08 pm

I need to re-evaluate. All those examples are pretty powerful.

ReplacedIn
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Post Post #2145  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:09 pm

@Mulch - I think Frogger/FF is one of the lesser likely teams in that I think Frogger would recognise that hard-defending FF in the manner he did means he never wins this game given a) His slot was already scum read and b) FF is inevitably getting lynched before end-game which means it'd be up to Frogger to win it in a 3 way, him making that move makes that near impossible. I also think the unvote/turnaround to him considering FF now is a really weird way to go about it if that's the team.

Personally of the opinion that if FF is mafia here it's with exactly Massive and can't really argue that FF is a "bad" lynch because there's plenty of strong logic that points towards him being mafia, the PoE pool alone makes it very plausible that he is and his constant self-voting feels gambit-y and rather difficult to fathom if he's town. That said took a skim read of his meta (re; his lynch in Gay Mafia 2) and he seems to have a very vindictive attitude when suspected as town and would rather go Massive in that I can see him with all three other players inside the pool, find his posts themselves far scummier and think his interactions with the flipped scum both directions are a strong point towards him being mafia, hoping a Scum!Massive flip means NA's win the game tonight.

In post 2138, Fro99er wrote:Then you're never going to like playing with me.

And probably won't again, which is fine? But lets focus on this game for now please. Run me through exactly where you're at right now, given you contemplating FF being mafia is a pretty big change to before. Convince me this from you is actually you genuinely trying to gamesolve.

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Post Post #2146  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:12 pm

We waited all this time for that?

Well whatever.

Vote: FormerFish

Strongly recommend Arona flip a coin tonight, heads protect me, tails investigate whoever he says he wants to, or just pick one.
That which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil

Official Visigoth

ReplacedIn
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Post Post #2147  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:15 pm

In post 2146, GreyICE wrote:Strongly recommend Arona flip a coin tonight, heads protect me, tails investigate whoever he says he wants to, or just pick one.


Don't think that's required? If we ever get a scumflip here Arona should always be on you since 1 more clear wins us the game. If mafia have a roleblocker active tonight it doesn't matter what he does mafia roleblock him and shoot you, if mafia don't have a roleblocker tonight then he saves you and you investigate a VT.

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Post Post #2148  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:21 pm

I think that it may be best to annouce your target so if two people die at night, we know your target was mafia?

If I'm understanding weak doctor correctly.

nancy
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Post Post #2149  (ISO)  » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:32 pm

s
Being scum is absolute freedom ~ Nacho

:2017-2018:
hi meet my mafiascum gravestone, the flowers were probably left by camn or schadd or Prism, blow them kisses for me would you?

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