Mini Normal 1920 (Game Over)

[Alisae]

HELLO WORLD!

If someone could like
catch me up
that would be lit
thankie

[Alisae]

Exit one sib
Enter another sib
that's how our life goes

[Alisae]

Holy fuck it's been a whole fucking 25 minutes since my last post god dammit people

[Alisae]

Doesn't anyone have the common dencenty to speak around here?
It's like every decided to suddenly become the Past President of the Being Alive Club jesus fucking crist.

[Alisae]

GOD DAM

[Alisae]

Ya know
once I saw you saying that Arona was a Weak Doc and then say Roleblocker in the same sentence
I was about to suggest we No Lynch but then the roleblocker could just roleblock Arona.

DannyBoy being clear via Cop invest makes sense
However tbh let me throw ya a bone
what do you think of scum claiming WeakDoc?

Also Ascetic could be a scumrole in this case.
Who said the Roleblocker doesn't also have an Ascetic Modifier.
It's also a very safe claim for scum in the event they got hit with a Loyal Cop invest.


pedit: OH MY GOD WALLPOST AFTER WALLPSOT GIVE ME A BIT TO ATLEAST DISGEST THIS SHIT.
I mean I like to wallpost too but shit.

Also atleast I have someone to talk to so thanks for that

[Alisae]

Also
I will never
ever
ever
read 91 pages of a full game
if anything I'll probably just read ISOs or ~something~

[Alisae]

I mean
there's also the theory that Arona could just be lieing about being a weak doc
I mean like
how do we know there is a roleblocker in the first place?

[Alisae]

Arona is never fake here for a few reasons, a) He's pretty obvious town for how he's played,

Um...
then explain how the play is town.
I haven't read,
so hand me a limb and help me out here.

--

b) The manner he bread-crumbed his role doesn't come from scum

Lol only scum crumb doc.
Town crumbing doc is suicidal on so many levels.

--

If Aronas scum that means this setup is 10-3 with the town power being Loyal Cop, Macho Neapolitan, Asceitc v Roleblocker + 2 Goons which uh, yeah, no. That's not something that's ever going to happen. Existence of Aronas role fits perfectly with LUV's and Arona claiming before any sort of mass-claim occurred just seriously never means he's mafia here. So yeah, you can drop that Arona = scum theory completely. We're also never no lynching.

Here's the thing
you're talking about the setup designer who gave the scumteam in a NORMAL mini a Loud Fruit Vendor (You can find that game Here).
If I need to explain the mechanics behind that role, I can do that, however a Loud Fruit Vendor for scum essentially says "Hey, this is me self-clearing myself to you."

I perfectly expect mastina to give scum some kind of power to mess with towns heads.

Not to mention didn't LUV die N2?
That gave Arona some time to prep a fakeclaim if they needed to via massclaim, no?
So hey
Why not claim before massclaim
it'd make Arona look more townier and all them to get to endgame. No?

And yeah I dropped my No Lynch theory because the idea I had was the Weak Doc gets a chance to invest someone going into MyLo. It's a play to get information.

--

I'm

the ascetic, not Arona and I'd claimed I softed it before any claims occurred whatsoever this game and hard claimed it within ~2 minutes of GreyICE claiming while I was at work, can go and take a look at the context behind it but should be blatantly obvious from it that I'm town. And existence of an Ascetici is to minimise the chances of LUV/GI's role getting clears N1 to make the game autowin, just an ounce of logic and setup speculation pretty much confirms me as town but my play should do so as well. Literally a case of going Eve->You or You->Eeve wins the game 100% of the time.

Yeah, I caught you're an ascetic. But I'm saying you could be a scum!Ascetic.
That's not something you soft or play around with, because you're playing with fire. That's misleading and not helpful.
If you're ascetic, thats something that you should claim on Day 1 first thing.

[Alisae]

You're taking too many things for granted imo.


Let me teach you a lesson in setup design.
For pure WIFOM, a Mod could put say a Doc Enabler into the game
without any doctors.
Just for Pure WIFOM.

[Alisae]

GreyICE investigated FF N1 and got a "No result", there's 100% confirmation that there's a roleblocker in the game and is the scums final role.

The more you continue with the "arona could be mafia and we only have 2 real PRs!" the more I"m just going to shrugvote you.

So if you're town and actually going to refuse to read the pages in the game (Why the fuck replace in then???) then the least you can do is ISO Eeve/Myself/Massive/MMM/Chickadee and state reads.

Okay that makes sense.
And yeah sure
vote me
I will 1v1 you and destroy you.
Mister
Scum!Ascetic.
VOTE: ReplacedIn

[Alisae]

Oh you're an alt.
That makes things a bit more
entertaining.

Eitehr way I'm 1v1ing you.

[Alisae]

Where is your shrugvote.
Why are you so hesitant?

[Alisae]

Eevee is like, probably town by the way you're lining up that lynch btw.
Like I am
We're both probably town.

[Alisae]

lmao clear
please do keep on insisting he is clear
I'm trying to bring up concerns while you're just like "lol nope, this is how the game goes. You have to do this. You have to help me out with my agenda."

Okay I mean
you can crumb the weak part sure
but the doc part?
No
you don't have to crumb that
that is suicidal


And um yeah, scum can claim doc to bait out a cc
that actually like
happens in games.


lmao you're comparing me to a newbie
man
this is entertaining


Man
if I was a newbie I would totally just suck up to you its like you know soooo much omg man
I could never be decent at setup spec if I was a newbie hahahaha

but regardless that's fine
I'll just push my reads.

And I mean

I am scumhunting
Atleast
I'm not scumhunting the person you told me to scumhunt
Wouldn't that just like
give you a win?

[Alisae]

Like this is literally a situation where it's a fact the final scum is between Eeeve/You/Myself.

There's not that much reading to be done, so at least actually y'know ISO those people and the flipped scum if you're town here.

I'll iso those people sure including Arona
if I feel like Arona is town by play then I will read her as such
/me hair flicks.

[Alisae]

Oh wow this is easy
Hi Regfan
how are you today?

[Alisae]

man if you were in this game I would have NEVER replaced in I just cannot ever tolerate your posting.

[Alisae]

maybe because I'm ignorant?
/me shrug

[Alisae]

I mean like
the concept for Owner's Market seemed like a fun idea I wanted to try it out when I saw it so I respect you in that regard but man
the attitude I just cannot stand it
tho part of me thinks I brought this upon myself.

[Alisae]

Sorry
didn't recongize it was fucking REGFAN I was talking to.
I mean
it makes sense considering the egotistical hostility you're giving me. No one else that I really remember talking to gives me that egotistical hostility-

Look
this isn't really important
I'ma go through ISOs now.

[Alisae]

Yeah
I've totally been unreasonable in the past with you
you know this
like um...
Hold on
let me find it...
Here we go.

Man
I hate digging into my past on here it's
rather disgusting

But anyways

I call out TB correctly in that game
as you proceed to call me unreasonable and then threaten to policy lynch me for being unreasonable?

[Alisae]

Anyways, back to reading my this
Eevee person's ISO.

[Alisae]

Spoiler: Eevees

Yes it is rare for synchronization but its always possible.

What steps do you plan on taking in order to get synchronization going as early as possible and how will you prevent it from being disrupted?

Synchronization just takes participation from all players which sometimes does become difficult. It just depends on whose on the pl. Its too early to tell how synchronized town is. But for now we can work on getting that participation, which is the point of RVS.

This eevee mug better stop trying so hard

What would you rather happen?
You act like trying to help is a hindrance to town. Although i admit i probably got too far offtopic with the reason RVS is decent/good. I call it passion about what i love, if you see it as trying hard, i say trying hard is better then not trying at all.

I try to use all my knowledge to assist in any way i can.

It's poorly executed and you look extremely nervous

It's very well done, actually. Unless you can name things that are poorly executed, I'm calling bullshit.

You obviously don't know how to read people. I doubt you even use GAMM.

I dislike the way you are stating this. It feels like you are saying only you are allowed to make reads and anyone else who tries is wrong. I honestly don't think self-centeredness is alignment indicative but it is annoying because it makes it feel like you don't want/care about others reads.

Also any particular reason you read massive?

Not enough content.

So in your earlier post with the yellow names the scumreads were based on activity and they were giving a useless reason to lurk?

Yeah i dont have any strong scumreads yet which is why i havent lynched anyone else yet. Although mulch still seems suspicious to me

Yeah i dont have any strong scumreads yet which is why i havent lynched anyone else yet. Although mulch still seems suspicious to me

Change that

Am i banned from having any form of scumread against you??

It is a difficult maneuver but it can eliminate a partner scenario for future purposes. Although it would be bad if a third party swooped in and hurt that plan.

Pre-flip associations are a house of cards and a waste of time.

It's never a waste of time to look down all paths.

Even if the idea is incorrect its better to bring it up, find whats wrong with it, move it to the side. Instead of having it burn the back of your mind.

Well that happened. We should all take a HUGE STEP back here and reintroduce ourselves instead of acting like a bunch of 8 year olds running a business

So many people are being so selfcentered rn.

Is someone at L-1/L-2?

You can't look for distancing without a scum flip.

All town has to work with is what is said! Any theory is plausible in mafia. It is our job to FIND scum using what we have. And what

I

have is people who care nothing of others thoughts and opinions.

Mafia is a TEAM game.
A team is as strong as its weakest link.
And i don't mind the weakest link/possible scum dying d1 to help town grow stronger.

Incase scum supersaint? Is that a possibility?

64 - I don't get this RVS arguement whats going on. I mean the syncronization stuff sounds interesting but dunno why it's being brought up this early because it seems pointless right now, but tbh I don't see it coming from scum. A bit to awkwardish in a sense.
111 - Okay this kinda feels really towny tonally. Mostly because in the tone, I get this feeling of them feeling offended and it just sounds towny to me. Like it sounds like they were offended by what Mulch said imo.
127 - Yeah, I feel like this post comes from town 99% of the time and scum would not even bother. Defending continues to play off Eevee being offended and hating Mulch's attitude.
233 - tbh, this kinda feels like a SvS interaction about a scumbuddy. I don't think this is something that is every really re-visited by Eevee and I don't really remember Eevee bringing it up again.
299 - This kinda seems towny to me. Mostly the stance on not having any strong reads (mostly because I sympathize) but I feel like if they were scum, they would atleast be trying to do something or attempt to provide something here. Like, this just feels honest here. And the Mulch read I can understand given their interactions with mulch just by reading their iso.
303 - This reasonability sounds like it is coming from town.
-Contiuing to read their iso is a bunch of questions but from memory no real recollection of attempting to revisit those questions or being interested in those questions-
603 - Lol Third Parties. This sounds kinda scummy tbh since if there is an SK, wouldn't it be better to just buddy them? I mean, ReplacedIn would know since they're oh so much better then me at this game.
607 - This sounds like, really towny and like it just does. I don't think scum Eevee says this here.
663 and 667 - Okay, this just feels very town tonally. It just does.
671 - And this just feels very fake.
813 - This speech about teamwork and stuff also just feels like very town. I think scum!Eevee would just let town go do it's thing or whatever.
-Contiuing to read their iso is a bunch of questions but from memory no real recollection of attempting to revisit those questions or being interested in those questions-
2233 - This kinda sounds really fake but tbh, I really just don't think scum would bring this up. But Eevee, what did make you think to bring up Supersaint right now?




I'm kind of flipflopping here. There are points in Eevee's iso that sound really fake, and points where they're asking questions but I don't buy they care about the answers. But there are other points where it's like "Yeah, I don't feel like scum posts this" and because of that, I kinda think Eevee is town.

[Alisae]

Okay I get that but like
the reason why I'm emphaizing on the fact that you're asking questions and not caring about the answers is mostly because that looks like scum faking scumhunting skills.
and in my ISO what I'm seeing is

Step 1. Ask Question
Step 2. Not coming back to said question.


What do you think of my interactions with the Regfan alt? And why did you bring up the supersaint stuff again?
I mean
according to the Regfan/ReplacedIn alt, one of {Regfan, Me, you} Has to be scum since he has no intention of considering Arona and Danny is cleared via cop.
So assuming you're town, me v Regfan has to be a SvT yeah?

[Alisae]

Eevee you should treat us both like we're at equal skill level.
Yes, Regfan is a vet, but some people (nancy most specificly) tell me a lot of the time I have a good scumgame for ~reasons~
I don't get her but ok.

But yeah
Regfan is probably miles better at me at this game. And that's not me even trying to be an ass about it that's just praise.




I will say this though
Fro99er has a very strong scumgame as well. We're site BFFs and we get paranoid over each other's play because our town and scum games are both really strong.
The only times that I witnessed him losing as scum is in House of Harmony, where I nailed him (but couldn't lynch him because he's REALLY good at making himself look obvtown) and in Railgun which I modded and he conceded because I decided to give town a Loyal Bulletproof Vest inventor and that was just a bad role to design on my part.

[Alisae]

Let me see what I can attempt to make out of Bomberman and ReplacedIn's ISO.

Also I kinda like your response when it comes to the Supersaint stuff, because really I feel like you're just trying to tell me that you're being helpful.

[Alisae]

While I do that, can you explain to me what you didn't like about Frog's play?
Me being site BFFs with Frog is that we're really strong when we sync up together.
We're siblings afterall.
Like
he is my favorite person to hydra with when I do hydra with him.
Our hydra is even called Siblings Quarrel because when we first met in HoH we got into a big fight and it was okay we love each other now.
(Also we aren't really siblings, we just like to call each other siblings)

My point is
I know a bit about my sib's play.
So I'm in a unique position where I CAN offer insite there.

[Alisae]

Have you seen people use it before?
I don't really recall anyone using it off the top of my head, but I feel like I'm crazy enough to have pulled something like that off in one of my scumgames and do it sucessfully.

[Alisae]

You're going to need to elaborate a little more then this, what specifically do you town read of Aliseas play recently? What did you scum read about Frogger/LMK, same question in regards to me/bomberman. Like I need to see that this is a genuine thought from you rather than you just fencesitting as scum.

Like unfiltered thoughts from you here are appreciated.

Lol
It's a towny fencesit.

Like
He's just not sure at the moment.
I'm trying to prod him as well and try to figure out what he's thinking but tonally I feel like Eevee just doesn't know what to go with atm.

I buy via tone that he genuine doesn't know which side is more townier atm.

[Alisae]

I dislike massive amounts of cussing unless i'm used to the person cussing alot. Personally i hear enough cussing Irl, online is my retreat i would like cussing to be as little as possible.
Although his push on arona was eh and his example spam post wasn't the best, its a weak setting for a scumread but it makes it so its less of a townread.
Right Now its not whose more scum to me its whose less town.

Eevee can you show me the posts where you talk about Massive again?

Why do you think his Arona push was eh?

[Alisae]

Oh you're talking about me I get it.
Yeah
I kinda do that a lot.


pedit: Alright, I'll go look at that.

[Alisae]

Can you tell me the posts that make you feel that.
Because here is what I am seeing (and I like what I am seeing)
At the start of his ISO, I see something when looking at, I strongly agree with by play (not by claims).
Frog going straight to attack that post and to pressure Arona seems a lot like how he would pressure his reads as town which is
Vote and come out with a strong push
proceed to hunt while pushing.

That's just how he's doing it.
With what he's saying, I somewhat agree.

By announcing a guilty you're essnetially forcing a 1v1.
Lynching out of that 1v1 can end up in failure because scum isn't going to kill the 1v1, they'll kill outside of it.
If you have a 1v1 like that, you're most likely going to have scum in that 1v1.
So distracting from the 1v1 to push town!FF is really scummy.

Also the way he went back and forth between Arona and Massive really screamed town!Frog to me, mostly becuase that's just how he plays as town. He's really all over the place jumping from lilly pad to lilly pad because he's a frog.

[Alisae]

Also Frog spamposts a lot
he has to because that way he'll make sure he feel comfortable when approaching the game.
He also hates being scumread especially by bad reasons so if he doesn't spampost, he'll think he's playing different and the change has to do with alignment.

[Alisae]

Or rather
other's will think "Frog is playing differently then what he usually does. He must be scum."

Is kinda what I meant to say but I think you get it.

[Alisae]

Well I mean
Frog does bus.

but here is the thing
Frog doesn't bus unless he thinks he is going to get towncred for it.
He would just add more force to what he was currently pushing.

[Alisae]

I don't see Aliaes's replace in posts as him genuinely attempting to solve the game or analyse the information that was put forward to him, I think his comments re; Arona and it being a fake claim point towards him trying to open up an avenue to get mslynched given otherwise he's got a difficult task in winning from here, think his reaction towards me shutting down the Arona suggestion doesn't make any sense coming from town but makes plenty from scum.

So let me get this straight.
What you gave me were claims and "here, one of these people need to be lynched."
And instead of blindly following you, I question what you saying and you think I'm scum because of that?

Is there something wrong with forming my own opinions?
Oh wait
you're scum so it makes sense now.

I'm not seeing him actually take into account or even bother to check back at the manner Arona claimed or anything of the sort, I think that attitude from him directly contradicts how badly he wanted someone to post at day start as in if he was that eager and town I think he'd have done

some

reading prior or done the reading of snippets when directed towards them. I think the night kill makes more sense from him then Eeve in that Eeve making the statement yesterday that he thinks Mulch is possibly where people are wrong (despite her being clear) and then shooting her at night feels like an odd and unlikely progression for scum to make in comparison to Alisae just shooting Mulch not being aware of gamestate whereas I think Eeve just shoots Arona.

You're right, I haven't done that!
Maybe I should
and then your push will be flawed.
Because this part is based on the assumption that I have read and saw how Arona claimed.

It was just a top of the head theory to attempt to get myself into the game
and I'm scum for questioning it now???

And okay
here's the thing
Scum!Eevee shooting Mulch works in the fact that people don't think scum!Eevee would do it.
So therefore scum!Eevee gets away with well, shooting Mulch and getting to LyLo assuming that is you sucessfully interacting me.

And even if I'm scum, I'm not going to go into this gamestate blind.
I will read up
I will lie about not having read
and I will make an accurate call on how I want to use nightkill accordingly.

And shooting Arona ensures that atleast one of Mulch and/or Danny get to LyLo if you think about it.

Sadly, I think you shot Mulch here.

--

Also think the way he's gone about actually interacting with me feels more like him trying to tilt me rather than him attempting to garner a read on me there, his comments particularly the "i'm not going to scumhunt him because that's what you want" is a very ??? comment given he'd want to actually get a solid read on both myself and Eeve if he was town here given it'd be in his own interests there. It's not like it was a leading question or forcing him to come out with a particular stance, just to actually have a well-reasoned read based on the events that have transpired over the game. His other comment of "I think Eeve is town because you're pushing him" is nonsensical in that with 1 scum remaining he has to consider two worlds, a) I'm mafia in which case Eeve isn't' scum because I'm pushing him but town because I'd have to be the mafia or b) I'm town in which case it'd not negate the chances of Eeve being mafia but instead increase it. It's just a bunch of drivel from him. The whole "Lets 1 v 1" at a point where he'd not really read an ounce of the game feels like a scum gambit.

If you are going to force me to forget about my reads just to appease you, then yes, I will go about it as if I am trying to tilt you. Because I quite frankly hate it when someone tells me my reads are shit.
And hate it when someone tells me to go back to the newbie queue.
And you think I am trying to tilt you?
YOU TILTED ME IF ANYTHING
And it just seems like you planned that trap just to use it against me. Becuase you probably figured I would act that way.
It's manipulative, I'll give you that.

--

Most of the things he's pointed out inside Evees ISO feel like weaker points and think he's missed more important things like Eeves stances and treatement of both MMM & Massive, do recognise that we both analyse games very differently but would think there'd be even a little focus on that as town and the ultimate stance taken feels like one where he's setting himself up to continue his push on me while leaving himself the opportunity to switch to Eeve if it goes that way.

Um, that is how I ~Play the Game~
as either alignment.

--

Also think the way he's interacted with Eeve comes across as him attempting to pocket Eeve rather than read him for the most part and the way he's attempting to discuss Froggers own actions here feels very agenda-driven here, particularly given the '1 v 1' 'Town!FF' elements don't flow smoothly at all.

Um. I can justify my sib's actions because we think alike. If you think it's agenda fuelled the okay, but I feel like if anything, this fuels your own agenda to try to force a lynch on me.

Not addressing the other stuff because I don't think I can. I might look at the Frog stuff.

[Alisae]

Like
I don't analyze interactions with flips
that's not really a strong suit of mine
my strong suit is just attempting to read people for their tone and do I believe the tone they are trying to convey here.
And Eevee reads genuine in that way.

[Alisae]

As much as I would like to replicate a Wisdom esque push on Regfan, I don't think that's going to help me here
so I guess this is the part where I work on my case.

[Alisae]

Spoiler: I destroy Bomberman's ISO aka Destroying Regfan pt 1 :D

I think the bigger question that should be asked wrt Mulch is how he can compile such a post with not even 5 pages of content

I won't entertain circular logic, Mulch

There's nothing I gain out of interacting with you at this moment if you're going to just defend yourself blindly instead of seeing that perhaps you need to change your mindset/attitude. Note that I haven't voted you because I believe there is a slight chance you are just Noobtown, but I will say that if you continue to play in the way you are I would have no issue voting you

Well, if you really believed in everything you're saying was for the benefit of town, you wouldn't make posts that posture yourself like #108

..If you aren't nervous, why are you responding to me so haphazardly? This shouldn't even be a discussion from your perspective if I am just neglecting your 'legitimate efforts'

Yeah I'm still not seeing his play here to be of someone who's agitated or on the edge. I think he's trying to talk his way into a town leader like role and it comes off a bit as projecting since he's been downright cringe about it.

There's nothing I gain out of interacting with you at this moment if you're going to just defend yourself blindly instead of seeing that perhaps you need to change your mindset/attitude. Note that I haven't voted you because I believe there is a slight chance you are just Noobtown, but I will say that if you continue to play in the way you are I would have no issue voting you

So you're considering policy lynching him?

Can you give me some thoughts on everyone else who's posted? I know Mulch has been the loudest poster in the room but I'm starting to feel like you have an agenda, and not one that has any town motivation.

Hmm my lingo is rusty what is GAMM again? Also yeah i don't like how he completely tosses away your reads. He should at least explain why its wrongs here.

It's not common; I think I created it, I forgot to explain it early game.

Gut, Authenticity, Motivation, and Meta. Those are the 4 things everyone should be reading others on.

Logic is what we see as true. If scum is good enough your "logic" will be a well constructed lie.

Yes. It's a bad way to read people. Authenticity is better. If someone is BELIEVING what they are saying, even if they have the worst logic in the world, that makes them town.

This is really bad theory.

You only need motivation.

He read pretty confrontational to me, and I presumed it was nervous because he kept asserting himself and even dared me once or twice to vote him. Not sure what it was about, really. He came after me because I told him his post was purely conjecture and then insisted that I read it again, but I guess he just sees things in only one perspective given that I already told him what I felt about his wall.

That being said, I wouldn't advocate a policy lynch, nor is this really the place to talk about. I think that his behavior is inherently anti-town, but trying to get everyone to vote someone on those premises isn't going to do the town any good, which is why I am hoping to reason with him because I think his slot is salvageable; I wouldn't shed any tears if he was gone though. My statement on voting him if he didn't fix his play was only to reaffirm his anti-town behavior.

I have nothing too substantial to note about the other players, only gut feeling, and my focus on Mulch is because he was giving me more to look at, even if I feel like it was inevitably wasted given how uncooperative he was being. Do you think if Mulch had a scumteam, they would let him wreak havoc in the way he is?

I'm not really worried about the votes on me honestly, but appreciate your insight regardless.

The problem I am facing right now when it comes to the current gamestate is that the people who have been most prominent in discussion are likely town and only nitpicking at each other

The problem I am facing right now when it comes to the current gamestate is that the people who have been most prominent in discussion are likely town and only nitpicking at each other

If, let's say, us two, Mulch, ELA and Danyboy are probably town nitpicking at each other, who do you think is actually scum then?

If I put this off and answer it later, would you be mad at me?

I honestly didn't realize MMM had so many votes, but that begs the question if people believe MMM would willingly give all this information as scum

For how long will you put it off?

I know this sounds presumptuous but you'll know

I agree with you, and believe that even in MMM's frustration he has made pushes that are in conjunction with mine (LUV, as an example).

Is there where I reveal what I was waiting on? Sort of.

I think Tchill/Gerry/LUV are the best people to vote right now, my preference being LUV>Tchill>Gerry. I don't have enough to call Gerry anything therefore I'm not going to base arguments on that, but I will say that LUV has been playing low to the ground, and what I mean by that is even if he is trying to seemingly 'sort' the game out, there's nothing that really sticks. I don't really mind if people want to take their time, but a lot of the questions, pushes, and involvement don't really amount to much. It can be described as playing careful, which I don't like. This is coupled with the fact that LUV is supposed to be someone who is a seemingly 'hyperposter', but perhaps he's trying to correct that? I don't know if I can believe that for a good amount of reasons, and even then, if you look at LUV he's really not saying much.

MMM, this is your chance to join a contrarian wagon.

VOTE: Lil Uzi Vert

I'm going to take someone who has prior experience with MMM and his behavior as more credible than some ignoramus who tried to play power town out the gate and failed miserably.

I don't even know why I'm scum read currently.

In my best Mulch impersonation, I have used GAMM to discern Tchill is scummier than you

Please vote him or I'll make ten posts about my stupid theory and annoy you

I agree with Grey

VOTE: LMKguy

<<< The mod provides free tag fixes...
...That is, when she actually gets to the post in question. >>>

What do we fucking gain? Please tell me. Do you not read words? I highly believe that if MMM is mafia, their partners have already accepted his fate. They don't need to do anything. Why don't you talk about the people you think are scum or maybe even town in regards to the MMM wagon. That might actually be helpful instead of hoping something magical is gonna come out of his flip. What happens if he's town? Scum? Who are you thinking of voting based on either scenario and who should we be looking at in reference to these flips.

Am I in a newbie game?

I already answered. I said why I'm so focused on the slot and what we gained

..Where? I'm blind. Point it out to me. Reiterate these statements in a way that I can follow.

Answer this please. Please

FUCK OFF

115 - This is a wierd way to attempt to shade someone while sounding surprisingly neutral about them.
128 - I don't want to attempt to sort Mulch and the logic he is using. IE avoiding scumhunting.
134 - I feel like this post is being made coming from someone who has more information then Mulch. Again, I feel like this is bomberman attempting to just avoid scumhunting mulch here.
172 - If you don't like what someone is doing and is calling it anti-town, then you vote them, not posture around them and act like you have information then they do. Like, he is playing surprisingly safe here for some reason.
179 - This concern right now seems really fake.
287 - This is the fairly safe stance to be taking atm. Like, he doesn't even want to do anything or attempt to get them to be cohesive, which is what he should have been doing if he's town here. If anything he's just letting town nitpick at themselves and not bothering to attempt to stop it. He's being a bystandard.
296 and 311 - Scum on Scum interaction. This is the one of the few times he actually interacts with one of his parnters, and it's just stalling and avoiding scumhunting. Not to mention not mentoining your partners is just an in general scumtell.
348 - But what about this frustration is towny. Just saying someone is frustrated isn't going to cut it, you have to say why and connect the dots. This isn't really being done here.
349 - This is just a terrible push. He's basicly pushing LUV for not saying much, but doesn't go into what he isn't saying or really attempt to hunt that.
354 - This heavily screams "I AM SCUM WITH MMM"
552 - And Regfan pushes me for acting tilted towards him. HELLO?
633 - This vote is hiding behind Grey who is doing all of the work for him and is 100% a bus.
646 - Speak for yourself, because Bomber is talking like he is accepting MMM's Fate. The frustration here is just really fake as well.
653 - And a really scummy post with lots of really scummy frustration. "GET THE FUCK OFF OF ME. STOP SCUMHUNTING ME. FUCK OFF."






tl;dr Bomberman's stances are super safe. What he does is just super safe. And when he goes out of his way to do something like what he did with LUV, telling him to Fuck off, it comes off as really fake frustration. He also says how he thinks the place became EpciMafia, but I don't buy he's genuine attempting to sort what's going on and if he's frustrated because scum were pushing him etc. Let me remind you there is no softs or claims or crumbs of anything relating to an Ascetic. Which makes me think it's a scum!Ascetic. Or that Regfan is lieing.

[Alisae]

Not particularly interested in getting into a huge wall v wall thing here since I think it detracts from the main points that I'm trying to get across.

Trust that iDanny & Arona will be able to see them.

Will address just a few small things in your recent post though;

1) I'd given you an idea of the gamestate, you were questioning it without going back and attempting to form an opinion based on what actually transpired; attempting to argue X could be scum when you don't even know if you think X is scum is very counter-productive as town but has plenty of scum motivation in that a) It allows you something to talk about, b) It means potentially opening up a mslynch you might not have been able to get previously.

2) Mulch was also cleared via Arona targeting her N1 and not dying on the night we know that GI was roleblocked, it's not really a case of "Mafia shot an unclear over a clear", it's more a case of I think Eeve would have been less likely to shoot Mulch based on his EOD comments, you can argue it's WIFOM and that's true, it's not really the strong point inside my wall. It's something I'm happy to drop to be frank.

3) You decided to replace in and not read the game, that's not something I agree with but can accept given the situation that we're in, was just asking you repeatedly to read the few players ISO's I thought were important and instead you attempted to belittle me like I'm someone that has no idea on setup design. Was trying to be as reasonable with you as possible despite wanting to swear when I saw you'd replaced in and being tempted to state my reads at daystart and replace out.

but wall battles are fun.

1) Well then, I guess I have to read Arona's ISO to find out why don't I? Like, atleast give me some room to read it, and then interpret it. I mean, if did that and you were town, you could sort me better by analyzing my content, right?
2) See, this is where I disagree. Thanks for dropping it
3) And you did belittle me didn't chu? I mean, you belitted me, and then I belitted you. This is a fight YOU started which is what you aren't including. And regardless, I gave (and giving you) your content right now aren't I?

[Alisae]

do recognise that we both analyse games very differently

I also kinda want to add that this
makes me look like I am very town for just having a different approach.

[Alisae]

WAIT

a) It allows you something to talk about

OKAY REGFAN
THIS IS BULLSHIT


I don't need to use that to create something to talk about
I have many different ways of getting into this game Regfan
even if I didn't try that, I could always try out just reading the last 10 pages.
Or ISOing someone.

I don't need to "Create" something like that to talk about.
I'll just find something to do.
And talk about it.

[Alisae]

I also kinda want to say I'm the better push right now for scum!Regfan
he could easily make himself look more town just based on my interactions with him and how we just cannot tolerate each other's posting.
And I'm not townreading him. Otherwise I feel like he would try to get me to townread him if he was scum.
And even then, he would probably push me because from my perspective he thinks I am like
super bad at this game
so if he wanted it he could do it.

Not to mention he probably has better chances trying to get Eevee to vote me then I have trying to get Eevee to vote Regfan.

[Alisae]

And your above post about how Alisae is scum (and several posts of yours above) is just the start of you pushing the only real narrative you have a choice to do at the moment as scum, it's going to be you attempting to construe every post of his to fit with your scum read there, the difference between you how you're assessing that for instance and the Eeve read are miles apart. Pretty much at the point where you're not really 'scumhunting' but instead trying to 'win a debate'.

Hey look
I changed a name.

[Alisae]

Like
that post is so worthless
I can say the same thing about you.

Like
what the fuck even is that post?
A Wifi Password?

[Alisae]

I've been somewhat Transparent too.
But you can't be Transparent when you can't even let actions target you sucessfully

And like
your first point is great an all
except its you that has to build the narative.
You have to A. Look like you're trying
B. Look like you're scumhunting
and C. Build a narative to push the people you need to push while having that look genuine.

Like
It really doesn't matter what status of "having read the game" or not you put on your head the matter is your saying just to make it look like you're pushing a narative.

And great
you look at associations
look at you
it just so happens you have more tools at your disposal to manipulate the town with your "narative."

[Alisae]

It doesn't matter how many roses you add to a fucking wasteland to attempt to make it look beautiful
at the end of the day
it is still a wasteland.

It doesn't matter what all of your points are for your narative and agenda, and how you do it.
You are still pushing a narative and an agenda.

[Alisae]

Effectively what I'm saying is, you've gone from "I scum read ReplacedIn, 1v1" almost instantly upon our interaction at daystart, then gone through Eeves ISO and gone "Probably town but there's some concerns there" then gone "I'm going to make a huge case on ReplacedIn being mafia" and all this before you've even taken a look at my ISO yourself. It's not how town players scumhunt or approach games

Ya know
this is like
very similar to how I ~Play the game~

[Alisae]

She also ignored the posts from 813-2233, which doesn't seem genuine to me.

I think you just have problems with how I get reads.

[Alisae]

Maybe, but her posts on Day 4 are pretty scummy and you just seem to be ingnoring them.

Okay.
I decided not to sleep so we can talk.

Why do you find her posts scummy?

[Alisae]

Also why do you find revealing alts to be scummy
If anything it's like super NAI

[Alisae]

No he hasn't you have, especially by revealing his main and trying to goad him.

If anything his interactions with me at the start of day and before this push most likely infers he has more information then me.
Specificly about my alignment.

[Alisae]

Also why do you find revealing alts to be scummy
If anything it's like super NAI

You trying to make RI angry is what I find scummy.

Onto Eeve, his voting of FF over Chick who was the optimal choice and his hesitance in voting massive.

If anything his interactions with me at the start of day and before this push most likely infers he has more information then me.
Specificly about my alignment.

Please explain.

Okay, why is that scummy and why would I do that?

Can you show me.
tbh I might have missed it.


And okay sure
basicly when me and Regfan were talking about setup spec, he was bascily telling me that I was an idiot for suggesting such a thing.
Like at the time
he wasn't attempting to sort my alignment from that
he was just focusing on telling me that I was wrong.
And because of that it shows that he knows I'm town.

[Alisae]

Wait wait Dany so you scumread alisae for not agreeing with your scumread?

Look at me pocket weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Alisae]

The conftown can explain for himself I don't think he needs you interjecting.

[Alisae]

This is his reason for voting FF over Chick who both had gulities on them. Voting Chick was the best choice as he was confirmed scum while FF's guilty could of been due to a roleblock or him being scum.

During the last day his reads had to be forced out of him and he was still hesitant on voting massive.

I don't know how you could see this and town read him.

I didn't
but tbh
even seeing that
I still townread him
it's the tone.

What he's doing there is scummy
the way he's doing it is towny.

Like, I see it and I think "okay, this is probably Town!Eevee just fed up with everything right now."
Mostly because I buy the frustration that's being conveyed.

--

Because your ignoring the possibilities that Eeve could be scum and trying to make it into a '1v1' and trying to make it into a shouting match.

Why would I ignore them? Wouldn't it just be better if I kept my options open?
You still haven't answer the question of why I would do that as scum.

--

What posts did you have at that point of the game where he could sort you? He was giving you the layout of the game and then you turned into calling him condescending and trying to change it into a fight of personalities.

The post where I tried to analyize Arona's claim just via setup spec and not how they claimed. They could have easily attempt to sort me from that right there and then. They didn't.

[Alisae]

Spoiler:

This is his reason for voting FF over Chick who both had gulities on them. Voting Chick was the best choice as he was confirmed scum while FF's guilty could of been due to a roleblock or him being scum.

During the last day his reads had to be forced out of him and he was still hesitant on voting massive.

I don't know how you could see this and town read him.

I didn't
but tbh
even seeing that
I still townread him
it's the tone.

What he's doing there is scummy

the way he's doing it is towny.

Like, I see it and I think "okay, this is probably Town!Eevee just fed up with everything right now."
--

Mostly because I buy the frustration that's being conveyed.

--

Because your ignoring the possibilities that Eeve could be scum and trying to make it into a '1v1' and trying to make it into a shouting match.

Why would I ignore them? Wouldn't it just be better if I kept my options open?
You still haven't answer the question of why I would do that as scum.

--

What posts did you have at that point of the game where he could sort you? He was giving you the layout of the game and then you turned into calling him condescending and trying to change it into a fight of personalities.

The post where I tried to analyize Arona's claim just via setup spec and not how they claimed. They could have easily attempt to sort me from that right there and then. They didn't.

Howso? What makes you think he is frustrated and what does he have to be frustrated about?
--
Because your just trying to get RI lynched your not trying to sort the rest of the players mainly Eeve. This is shown by the fact that you didn't even see his posts above which makes me think your not trying to sort him.
--
I couldn't read you either until you voted for RI so I have to disagree with you on that.
What's you current state of mind regarding the set-up spec, still think arona could be scum.

Loyal Cop WIFOM. Was the Loyal Cop roleblocked or did it have a guilty?
1581 just screams "Okay, can we move on with our fucking lives" tonally.
Eevee needed a flip to work with is what I am assuming here.
--
Okay but how does getting into a screaming match accomplish this?
What incentive do I have for this?
You're missing incentive and tactics here.
You also didn't answer my question about leaving my options open here.
--
Un
you can easily grab my alignment from the posts before I voted Regfan.
So we'll just agree to disagree there.

Right now just setup spec wise, I just think RI is a roleblocker that fakeclaimed and softed ascetic a bunch to get potential investigatives away from him.

[Alisae]

It's probably nothing but if me/massive/frogger flip town i say question him a bit more tbh.

This feels
really towny btw

Like
I feel like scum!Eevee would just have more certainity in them flipping town to just attempt to try to come off as confident.

[Alisae]

I agree, but I decided to leave it to the next day since we had confirmed scum. In what way is sorting out wifom better then lynching confirmed scum. Even after Eeve got a flip what work did she do?

Doesn't matter.
Chick wasn't getting anywhere near MyLo/LyLo with a guilty, so given that the timing doesn't matter as long as Chick is lynched somewhere down the road.

[Alisae]

Have you played with her before? What makes you think you can predict her scum play?

I don't understand why scumread RI either?

I don't need to. Confidence is towny. Just sounding confidence makes people more likely to follow you.

I don't understand the 2nd bit. Is that refering to my own read on them?

[Alisae]

Oh boy here we go again
gimmie a moment.

[Alisae]

The more you continue with the "arona could be mafia and we only have 2 real PRs!" the more I"m just going to shrugvote you.

Implies I'm town here just by fact he's not really trying to sort me alignment wise. He's just annoyed.

--

You're not even remotely attempting to actually scumhunt or solve the game here, I've made it very clear where you need to focus, what you need to read, you're not doing any of that. If you're town here you're just continuing to prove you've learned nothing from the Newbie games I've seen you in. And I'l vote when I"m actually ready, I was planning on playing this day pretty slowly and treating it as a 3 way where I had to determine who was scum inside yourself/eeve as a sort of fun-challenge to myself.

Implies I'm town even though it sounds like he's scumreading me based on the fact he doesn't really sound like I'm trying sort me alignment wise. He's just trying to sound like cocky know it all town. I voted him to see if he would vote me back mostly because I wanted to see if he would stick to his guns. He didn't and he seemed hesitant when it comes to making a move too early.


You can read just about everything else I said within the past 3-4 pages.
I think I explain my read there, ja?

[Alisae]

Was trying to be as reasonable with you as possible despite wanting to swear when I saw you'd replaced in and being tempted to state my reads at daystart and replace out.

This also makes him look like he knows my alignment
except he then realized his role pm was red and he could just push me.

[Alisae]

Yeah
when you hold certain expectations of me and I don't meet them of course I am going to be scum.

Like
that's not even how I scumhunt upon replacing in.

I make do with reading the current ISOs of what I need to read and trying to find scum with that.

[Alisae]

It's because you're scum and we both know you're not winning from here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ya know what
You win.


And I'm not even trying to be condescending.
That is how I feel about the gamestate.


Will you be around postgame?
There are.
Things
I need to get off my chest.

[Alisae]

Like
I don't really want to be an ass
I don't want to be enemies
I don't want to spite each other anymore


And I just dunno if we got off the wrong foot or something but
I'm sorry.

[Alisae]

VOTE: Alisae
Sure
I already sent in a request to concede anyways since that's quicker.

[Alisae]

Like
even before replacing in
I ISO'd my sib
and I was like "Eh, this could be scum."


I just back myself into a corner and I don't even know why.


And I'm not even trying to start up drama.
I just want to make amens.

[Alisae]

omg
I feel
happy for once
and I'm crying
but its the good crying where I can just
finally feel accepted.



TBH if I drew a townslot
yeah this game would have been very different
I probably would have never suggested arona was scum.
and we would have gamesolved together if I managed to townread you
it would have been great fun.

[Alisae]

I can't tell if this game was fun or if it just made me suffer in the long run.

[Alisae]

and yes
I got rolled
Tho I think I learned something from getting rolled and I think this will make my pushes strong on people

Like
I love losing as scum.
I get to gain something from it
and in most cases they're my better games.

[Alisae]

Tbh alisae i was gonna vote replacein but you threw in yhe towel before i did.

owo

[Alisae]

Let me ask tho
what did you like about me when it comes to the 1v1
because Regfan had a way stronger push on me that even I agreed with 99% of the time.

[Alisae]

And the conversation I had with Danny was just me being desperate to attempt to give him something that he liked.
Like
if you thought about it.
I was backed into a corner and essnetially I had no other options.

[Alisae]

Oh yeah btw
the scum PT

Is

Heavy

Don't go into that unless you're prepared to handle some emotionally heavy stuff.

[Alisae]

That's because he was still open to change his mind and re-evaluate
he was pushing me based on concerns he had
I was pushing him like he said, like I was treating a debate.
Which was just
wow
Because I never thought about the game that way.

[Alisae]

But yeah
the way I was going to win this game was lynch one of {Regfan, Eevee} shoot the other and basicly say "There is no way in hell I put myself in this corner, Arona has to be scum."

[Alisae]

That involves me surviving today and just coming from a perspective of recongizing strong pushes
Regfan's push on me was strong.
He just nailed everything.

[Alisae]

Alisae could use a hug but as a game mod I can't give it in the mafia PT so I'll just leave it here to pick up postgame.
<3

Yo thanks for the hugs
<3
/me hugs

[Alisae]

Yeah
I only realized that just a bit too late.

[Alisae]

and the setup is like
100% pure scumposting
It was much like my approach to GL and LQ in a flipless micro where I was scum in, where essentially upon replcaing in, I was told that these players were town and I decided to scumread them.

[Alisae]

If I was stronger and I just knew that
and I considered things
and I knew I had a chance
I might have continued fighting.
But i just don't think I'm that strong enough as a person.


I just sprialled down into negativity emotionally and gameplay wise.

[Alisae]

Thanks mastina
<3

[Alisae]

Like
I just can't help but disagree
but the encouragement is really nice.
Thank you.

[Alisae]

Ya know
I had a thought
that maybe Mafia is not the game for me.
Since I get emotionally attached
and I just
don't know how to take my emotions out when playing.

But I'd probably be running back after a few days of just sitting around not having much to do in my free time.
Man I hate this game.

[Alisae]

Massive I hope we get a chance to play again sometime!

[Alisae]

Oh that was really simple.
A. He basicly hinted at having past interactions with me.
B. He's the only person who has that type of tone that I interacted with him.
C. His first 3 posts look like classic Regfan posts.

[Alisae]

This is me
not talking about past drama.



And either way it's water under the bridge for me right now.
I don't want to go back into the past please don't make me go back into the past.

[Alisae]

wat I liked the setup I thought it was cool

[Alisae]

Grey you seem like a cool person so ye I wish to interact with chu some more
we'll probably has that chance

[Alisae]

Town being full of clears is probably the most demoralizing thing from my experience, and then getting called out this hard on top of it all. Ouch.

If you think this is bad then...

[Alisae]

Eevee I come from PS too btw!
but not the mafia room.

[Alisae]

Gamma
what did I just say about going back into the past.

[Alisae]

I do photoshop related stuff when it comes to art mostly just GFX.
tho I only do art for the games I mod because I can get into the headspace to do them in.

[Alisae]

No I'm a loli-loving normie-murdering SK
That's what Cabd told me anyways.

[Alisae]

I don't suggest shrinking it unless it's fairly small already
it'll just reduce the quality.

[Alisae]

honestly its best not to read into moderator actions too much
it doesn't help you grow as a player if you're just looking for loopholes.

[Alisae]

Like
just read peoples play
it's ez

[Alisae]

pfft
mulch you aren't a newb

[Alisae]

lmao nancy