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Post Post #2425 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:01 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2401, Alisae wrote:I was backed into a corner and essnetially I had no other options.
The thing about that, though, is.
iDanyboy was conftown but he was potentially outvoted: EeveeLution Army + you + replacement = lynch.
Then iDanyboy dies and nobody bats an eye--he was conftown, after all, so the kill couldn't be traced back to him casting shade on you.

You gave up when you very potentially held the majority. We will never know now if you would or wouldn't. But you'd only have been backed into a corner if the replacement was suspicious of you. You were losing against two people, but you were winning against one (Eevee) with one slot undecided...and if you won against the second, then winning against two plus your own natural weight means you win the majority for today and likely the whole game.

For what it's worth though.
Other than giving up.
I don't think you could have played better under the circumstances.

The Mulch nightkill was sub-optimal because iDanyboy was the superior option, but you had no way of knowing that as a replacement going into the night essentially blind. You took the best shot you could with the knowledge you had available to you on an immediate short-term basis, and you fought about as well as you could considering Fro99er really
did
have a transparently scum vote-unvote relationship with massive. So you did a good job.

You just...shouldn't have given up.

Because I think that if you hadn't given up this game would have been a mafia win. Or at least gotten to 3p lylo before you lost. You were doing
really, really well
, and I'm so sad that you lost all hope and just...gave up.
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Post Post #2426 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:02 am

Post by mhsmith0 »

I'd say setup is probably a bit too swingy on weak doc and roleblocker roles; without one or both moving the ball towards scum, it's a bit difficult for scum team. Debatably the ascetic townie should have just been pulled (its existence materially narrows down the list of who town PRs should target, while not really helping scum since ascetic could easily be an ascetic plus some other PR).

Part of the issue is also that godfathers are just REALLY strong, and the like 15% or so chance that weak doctor / roleblocker interact to create an effective GF is I think a really big potential deal (there's good reason why GF's are banned from normal queue).

But essentially, if you've got a setup that's full of investigative power roles, the only real way to balance it is to have stuff that really introduces a lot of swing to it. MAYBE we could have done like a night one rolecop for scum too I guess? Kinda signaling "hey guys you REALLY need to be hitting town power or you're gonna get smoked"? I suppose we could have made it so that loyal cop was ascetic loyal cop and the double ascetic claim could have introduced more confusion, but I feel like that just introduces more chaos and potential swing to it, which probably isn't ideal?

Anyway, I'd say that the setup was probably towards the townsided end of the acceptable range, but overall still within reasonable balance range. Very happy we didn't go with the roleblocker only being odd night though (maybe it could have been split, odd and even night roleblocker as separate roles?)
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Post Post #2427 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:03 am

Post by Alisae »

Thanks mastina
<3
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Post Post #2428 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:03 am

Post by Alisae »

Like
I just can't help but disagree
but the encouragement is really nice.
Thank you.
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Post Post #2429 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:06 am

Post by Alisae »

Ya know
I had a thought
that maybe Mafia is not the game for me.
Since I get emotionally attached
and I just
don't know how to take my emotions out when playing.

But I'd probably be running back after a few days of just sitting around not having much to do in my free time.
Man I hate this game.
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Post Post #2430 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:08 am

Post by mastina »

In post 2426, mhsmith0 wrote:Very happy we didn't go with the roleblocker only being odd night though (maybe it could have been split, odd and even night roleblocker as separate roles?)
It was never odd-night.
It was nonconsecutive!

...Which effectively is odd-night because no scumteam ever with a nonconsecutive role uses it on an even night, butstill. :P
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Post Post #2431 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:10 am

Post by massive »

In post 2402, Alisae wrote:Oh yeah btw
the scum PT

Is

Heavy

Don't go into that unless you're prepared to handle some emotionally heavy stuff.
Well it wasn't heavy at the beginning, it was the "Massive and Chickadee Mutual Appreciation Club" in there :)

I don't know that there was a point in time that scum COULD have taken control of the game. Uzi and GreyIce are two VERY large personalities and when you give them PRs and then set them against each other, they are going to dominate whether you want them to or not. Scum's best option is pick sides and let them go at each other, and hope to pick up the pieces. You've got to neutralize them and then take a shot, and that was me the day I got lynched -- I didn't have enough authority by that point to take charge.
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Post Post #2432 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:12 am

Post by Alisae »

Massive I hope we get a chance to play again sometime! :]
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Post Post #2433 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:12 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Man I so wanted to play this game, Ascetic would've been fun and a very likely early locktown based on the fact there was a loyal cop that could see an ascetic claim and be like "so it's meant to be a miller for me"
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Post Post #2434 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:13 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Also Ali why do you think RI is Regfan and what's your deal with him?
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Post Post #2435 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:15 am

Post by Alisae »

Oh that was really simple.
A. He basicly hinted at having past interactions with me.
B. He's the only person who has that type of tone that I interacted with him.
C. His first 3 posts look like classic Regfan posts.
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Post Post #2436 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:16 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Why do you not like him tho
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Post Post #2437 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:17 am

Post by Alisae »

This is me
not talking about past drama.



And either way it's water under the bridge for me right now.
I don't want to go back into the past please don't make me go back into the past.
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Post Post #2438 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:17 am

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

Regfan just can't hide how he posts. I suspected it was him before someone confirmed my suspicions.

Outside of the tchill lynch, GI foolishly full claiming leading to me and him going back and forth, and the weak replacements, this game was alright.
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Post Post #2439 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:20 am

Post by massive »

In post 2432, Alisae wrote:Massive I hope we get a chance to play again sometime! :]
Any time!
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Post Post #2440 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:21 am

Post by GreyICE »

GreyICE is probably going to rant at me and say that these interactions are terrible and that it was imbalanced if he sees both the other two town roles claim though. Personal opinion: interactions are unusual and interesting, and have the potential to be really swingy, but are mostly balanced and if there's any bias at all, it's against the town. (The mafia having a full roleblocker is a bit much in my opinion and it was originally gated but reviewer decision was to bump it from gated to full as a compromise, so.)
I mean the game potentially ended on Day 2 with a town victory if we just lynched the miller claim and the scum didn't block or shoot the right people. I mean to recap, we lynch town D1, get a little lucky with power roles, and the game is unwinnable for scum. That's a bit much. I've been in a 13-player theme game that ended before day 2 began and I think it was less swingy (and broken) than this. You should also consider the power roles went quite badly for the town and we still had a mass of confirmed town for the scum to shoot through, so bad that they had to either take two confirmed town or Regfan+1 confirmed into LyLo. So it was swingy and unbalanced, simply a poor design.

Regfan
remains the best town player on site, bar none. The number of times that he's simply nailed a scumteam is impressive, and he is incredibly hard to argue against. Any town would gain a huge upgrade with him replacing in and this was no exception. I don't know why he think I'd get mad over the tchill lynch, it was kind of MMM>tchill=LMK day 1 for me, but it was all very close, and clearly all 3 dying was pro-town (no offense tchill). I know you wanted the Massive lynch day 3, and clearly from one perspective it was right, but from another FormerFish was much scarier to me as scum than Massive, which I think is worth respecting.

FormerFish:
Sorry dude. If it's any consolation the reason you were investigated night 1 was I legitimately felt you could carry the game for the scumteam if you were scum, and could do a damn good job as town if you were confirmed town. It's not like I was really scared that LMKGuy would be the scum mastermind who lived through LyLo, y'know? You absolutely fell into my philosophy as a cop - investigate someone you wouldn't mind claiming to save if they were town, and legitimately fear if they were scum. Once I got the result, I feel like I had to see it through.

Uzi:
I think you played alright, although you were a bit hyperactive and I don't understand day 2 at all. You've got to put your ego on the back burner sometimes.

Mulch:
Genuinely good play, got shot by scum, and I think you might have been shot eventually even without the clear.

Eevee/idany:
You were both very recognizably town, but I feel like you could elevate your play a bit. Dany, you did some decent analysis, but you tend not to reach out to other players. If you think someone is town try working more with them. You aren't locked into a read, and you need to work together to win. Eevee, I feel like you were just flying on gut most of the time. I think you could benefit from sitting back and reading things more.

tchill:
Sorry dude, you fit a lot of common scum patterns, and that last post was legit from one of your scum games. I feel like you were faking analysis as both scum and town.

GerryOat:
Obviously you played well, you got shot by scum N1 as a VT. Highest compliment you can get.

Arona
: I wish you contributed more, but for a PR it was fine.
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Post Post #2441 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:22 am

Post by Lil Uzi Vert »

massive got me pretty good despite me knowing something was off when he asked me why he wasn't able to read me as town this game.

I don't think LMK purposefully lurked. I don't think he's been on site since his last post in this game so I don't think anyone should be credited for scum reading him for the wrong reasons. Felt both the siblings did the best they could with the slot though.
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Post Post #2442 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:23 am

Post by GreyICE »

In post 2441, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:massive got me pretty good despite me knowing something was off when he asked me why he wasn't able to read me as town this game.

I don't think LMK purposefully lurked. I don't think he's been on site since his last post in this game so I don't think anyone should be credited for scum reading him for the wrong reasons. Felt both the siblings did the best they could with the slot though.
This post was super scumfuck: viewtopic.php?p=9356126#p9356126

Bonus points, look at the two people at the bottom.
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Post Post #2443 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:23 am

Post by Alisae »

wat I liked the setup I thought it was cool :(
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Post Post #2444 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:23 am

Post by GreyICE »

Oh yeah, I didn't get a chance to interact with you, but I thought you played well.

Obviously I was rooting for you to die, but that wasn't personal.
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Post Post #2445 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:24 am

Post by Alisae »

Grey you seem like a cool person so ye I wish to interact with chu some more
we'll probably has that chance :]
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Post Post #2446 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:25 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

idk what the deal is with formerfish catching shit as town
last time I really saw him play a vig effed up and shot him when he was fairly obvtown, this time GI deathtunneled him
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Post Post #2447 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:26 am

Post by Gamma Emerald »

Also I've like, BARELY played with GreyIce. My experience so far I THINK:
Watched him in Perfect Cherry Blossom for a bit
Replaced him in Dem Tryouts 4
He was very inactive in Mini 1860
And being here
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Post Post #2448 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:31 am

Post by Raskolnikov »

Town being full of clears is probably the most demoralizing thing from my experience, and then getting called out this hard on top of it all. Ouch.
deranged and incoherent
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Post Post #2449 (ISO) » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:32 am

Post by Alisae »

In post 2448, Raskolnikov wrote:Town being full of clears is probably the most demoralizing thing from my experience, and then getting called out this hard on top of it all. Ouch.
If you think this is bad then...
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