Worse Idea Mafia -- Game Over

[PokerFace]

Damn jester beat me to the first kill and he did it faster then fritz.

Doesn't mean i can't still have fun!

All players numbered top to bottom not counting Korlash or Myself.

Original Roll String: 1d16

1 16-Sided Dice: (11) = 11

[PokerFace]

Kill: cephir

[PokerFace]

oops I did count myself. Oh well pay back for him being the first /out to die in the screw the players game

[PokerFace]

hmm... Bad counting saved Battle Mage
Bad spelling saved cephrir
only one thing to do

BM = 1
Cephrir = 2

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[PokerFace]

nuts oh well

[PokerFace]

PF's BIG REVIEW POST

I believe what happened to Korlash, BM, and especially me was far more crummy Beeps. Well Now. Here is the queue signup list as Guardian tallied it.

ooba
The Jester
PokerFace
Primate
Simenon
Korlash
Tarhalindur
Mike O' Malley
Cephrir
Battle Mage
Andycyca
creampuffeater
Killah Nine
TheStranger
Beep! Beep!
Twomz
Kinetic
Sir Tornado

Here is the real signup order with me and Korlash off it and Battle Mage and Sir tornado listed at their real signup times:

ooba
The Jester
Battle Mage
Primate = 4
Simenon
Tarhalindur
Sir Tornado
Mike O' Malley = 8
Cephrir = 9
Andycyca
creampuffeater
Killah Nine
TheStranger
Beep! Beep! = 16
Twomz
Kinetic

Guardian's tallying kinda screwed me for I counted right in one respect. Factor in what i caught and did not catch in the queue and cephrir becomes 8. And Guardian's spelling rule messed me up too cause my browser's spell check said cephir = real word while cephrir = not real word. I blame guardian a little for being so critical, but to tell you the truth i am not mad. I have wanted to play a bad idea mafia game for quite some time. So I actually thank guardian for the simular experience.

I pmed guardian and asked him some interesting questions while I was dead. I have developed 2 strategies that can easily grant the town or mafia the win should I ever join and play this game again. I actually developed more than 2 but guardian's wierd rules negated some of them. I did think of the town mafiakill exploit plan which guardian had to add a rule to stop. I am surprised I was the only person to think of that before guardian thought of it by himself. I wonder if some of my questions hinted to me developing that strategy? None the less I believe I have enough knowledge and info from watching this play out to know exactly how to win next time regardless of what my alignment is. So thanks guardian for being helpful. I'd post these good strategies here but I think I'll save them so only I can abuse them later. And here is the kicker "BOTH" strategies involve lots of killing. Holding your bullet is foolish considering how well these ideas work when you consider big body counts and who exactly they belong to

Now to the segment I'd like to call "what really irk's me". I am irked by something funny I feel like telling you all. After i died I used post preview to see a few more dice rolls. The rolls I did landed on the following numebers 16, 4 and 9. (That 8/9 thing be wierd and 8+8 is 16 is wierder) I've said it before and I'll say it again I am lucky at 'random' things. And I ironically came to suspect these players as the game progessed, more on that later. On irc i have been known to vig randomly on night0 which is bad play and yet I got a high kill scum rate despite my night0 killing and I actually think my night zero killing has better accuracy than my non-night0 killing. I even hit mafia when i am SK and purposly trying not to hit them. I think i should abuse my luck more so than I already do with my often gambling, But let's get back to the overall game at hand. Pie is Good would have been proud to see a random vig hit scum. And I honestly thought about killing Cephrir for this reason

oops I did count myself. Oh well pay back for him being the first /out to die in the screw the players game

before the game even started. I ironically wanted scum to kill me in the screw the players version and that happen here instead. But I had to go with the dice cause let's face it, had I really hit scum like that without guardian mucking up things some of you would have shit your pants. I am a sucker for dramatics lots of actors are. http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 369#936369

Cephrir, how did it feel? The fear that went down your spine from Me getting on and killing you quickly. The adrenaline that rushed through you as you succeeded to kill me. I could have easily reposted the kill. Am I mad at you? Actually No. This was the first time I was killed by scum in 'forum' mafia. Usually me getting killed at night on irc leads to simular bad outcomes. The scum honestly considered me a threat here and had to eliminate me. I said some helpful stuff in the queue and discussion though so maybe somebody found that stuff useful. And let's face it. If i was you Cephrir and i as was scum, I would have killed me too. If i was you and town i would have pleaded to not get shot and not make a scummy OMGUS kill. My shot miss fired and you going and killing me was bigtime scummy considering you made it look like a joke/act of vengence with the spelling coment. You are also guilty of another scum tell which i'll mention later. But all in all I've seen people do worse when it was there first run as scum. So I say GG to you Cephrir. I hope to play again with you some other day.

And like you Cephrir I'd have to agree on the opinion that this is not mafia. There was no 'real' scumhunting or town census ever on who to kill. I'd call this a game of "Happy kill fun time" and I would call this a "Happy kill fun time" loss and not loss in a game of mafia.

Tarhalindur, well you are just the man there is no doubt about that. Cephrir did an obv scumtell and you caught it. Well Done. If it was not for your kill actually based on a true scum action this game could not have even remotly been like Mafia. You could have also looked at this post where he made the overeaction to a town players death tell in a particularly scummy way.

Awww.

But everyone knows people who can't count are scum.

That is considered a tell in some ways. Anyone is welcome to check the wiki for more on that tell. Its just like the scum being upset when the doc or cop dies especially with him posting the

Awwww

. Cephir made some bad tells in his first scum game. But he managed to catch a break

ooba, conspiracy theories are interesting. But you should have figured out by now that scum don't randomly bus. They bus when they see saving their partner is impossible. There was no suspicion brought up on Cephrir until Tar's shot. Scum have agenda they are normally not spontaneous. And Tar never acted really concerened about coming off pro-town like you implied he was. And Twomz issued a warning to beep! beep! and all players not shooting. He said he would kill whoever hadn't fired. He made the initial attack. a spontaneous action. The initial attack is rarely a bus and it wasn't in any of the cases you saw. Don't let yourself get carried away with conspiracies ooba. You might want to look at this discussion thread sometime: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7682

MoS (scum) shot DGB (scum) in bad idea2 once a cop got a guilty on DGB. That is a logical bus. Monty Shot a lurker scumo randomly in bad idea1. What happened with you and TAR here is deja vu of what eventually happened to monty. We need a way for people to defend themselves in this type of game before its too late. You were warned once about not letting people defend themselves and then you went and did it again. The smartest thing you did was post the math that made you think you shooting was a bad idea. That was the only thing that ever made me convinced you were town.

Beep! Beep! defended herself fairly well. But Andy saw through it I guess. Of the 4 dice rolls I made (5 if you count Battle Mage) Beep! beep! was the roll i actually doubted the most. I didn't think you were obv scum. Reading that MafiaTalk board and considering actual content I'd have to say Beep! Beep! deserved the victory the most. The third female to join a worse/bad idea mafia game is also the third female to win one.

Primate you detest random killing. Some of the stuff I will post here will probably make you want to throttle me. What seemed as a joke in mafia discussion and irc I am actually starting to think has some real value to it in my case. And funily you actually shot randomly too in this game. You wrote this game off and so I kinda thought you were scum not because of the dice but because you certainly weren't acting like yourself. Also your math in this post is off big time.

Alright now, assuming we haven't won (this post is going to be pointless if we have) you people have a decision to make. Keep me alive and the town get two more kills, shoot me dead at the end of your guys 48hr delay and get one kill (but it is me and town loses).

PS: I probably won't trust you to not lie to me and I'll fire my kill before the deadline anyway.

The better thing to do would have been for you to kill mike o' mailey. You or anyone holding a bullet at an unsafe level hurts the town. cause if 3 people are at same bullet level then the pre-kill can't be exploited. Also this math is better I sent this in a PM to guardian at one point:

By the way is the following a correct possible end game scenario?
4 players alive
Greg and Sam have 48 delay
Paul and Joe have 24 delay
Paul kills Sam. Paul and Greg have 48 delay
After this Joe does not fire. Joe is not scum. If he was scum he could pre-kill everyone and win right now.
The smart idea is Joe Town doesn't fire at all cause if he hits the wrong one the game is over.
Joe lets his delay pass and explains he can't be scum or else he could have just won.
Then he says: "One of you is town. When your delay is over please kill the other who must be scum"
Greg the scum says "Fuck I screwed up" He kills Paul
Next day
Its obvious to the Joe who is the final scum since there is only one of player alive and Paul comes up dead town.
At this point would you:
A) Allow the townie to shoot the scum and town to win OR
B) Say that since its 1v1 and scum can endgame one townie give the Mafia the win. Kinda like what happened in the end of Bad Idea 1

The answer to this question is A. Town wins. Which means if you are town and you are forced to make a descision that can loose the game (kind like what ooba posted about with his math) Don't make the descision. Let someone else that can't loose the game make the decision. And if someone has less bullets than everyone else they need to die or shoot next so the pre-kill can't be exploited.

Now down to the final person I thought was scum while I watched this game. Mike O' Mailey. Congrats to you. You posting

Kill: CPE

when you clearly have very few game posts should have set off some bells in people's heads. How would you know this abreviation? This is your first game and using abreviations isn't something anyone did so you doing something you have not seen before should have been a tip off. Consider the blank slate philosphy on that. And despite guardian's screwy delays and deadlines (more on this in my comments post to come later) perhaps you guessed how they worked after what happened with ooba's shot. But I think all this is giving you too much credit since all this knowledge is not easily assumable. Your a newbie who picked up some luck and perhaps some skills in the end. So I will congratulate you and acknowledge that you can surprise people despite how little you speak.

The scum eventually became very visible to me whether i rolled it or not. They best be glad the rules short changed me. (chuckles) (I'll discuss the rules and more in my comment and suggestion post to come later). Next time I won't hesitate. Adopting the "Pie is Good" view to viging and randomness looks like it will serve me well despite its ineffectiveness when handled by others. If you want a job done right you have to do it yourself. Yourself is the only one you need to choose who to vig anyway. (chuckles again) Comments and game suggestion post on the way. Expect that post tomorrow and in my usual iratic comedic fashion.
_________________

You know something else funny. I finally rmembered where I heard the name mike o' malley before. the host of that old Nickelodean guts show had that name

[PokerFace]

Woah primate calm down buddy. You need to realize I often post nonsence with little bits of truth to it in some areas. That is my comedic fashion. I have fun like that some times. You act like you hate me. I certainly don't hate you, so lighten up buddy. And your kill certainly looked random when you consider you never gave a reason and you practically bit Sir. Tornado's head off when he asked you for a reason.

Well On to suggestions of game improvement:

1)

The

atomic deadlines

are crap considering they potentially make the game go faster in a method that effectivly limits content as the game reaches its crucial moments. The deadlines need to go when this is run next. If you read the rules correctly and yes they are confusing this is what the deadlines do as guardian explained to me over pm.

Automatic Deadlines every day of X, where X is max[the number of players living, the largest delay any living play has + 1]. If no one kills before deadline, a random player with the largest deadline is killed.

This means that if there are 3 players, 3 day deadline normally.

However, if there are 3 players, and one has a delay of 3, there would be a 4 day deadline. If someone had a delay of 4, 5 day deadline, etc.

At deadline, someone with the largest delay will be modkilled at random.

Its easier to explain and see things when you see examples with actually numbers instead of X or X+1.
_________________

2)

And now About the

delays

. In the discussion forum i posted this.

I just thought of something wierd with your statements above

Say this happens like you mentioned
1 mafiso no delay
3 townies 3 day each has 68 delay
mafia kills 1

Then
1 mafiso 24 hour delay
2 townies 68 hour delay

time passes
1 mafiso no delay
2 townies 44 hour delay
mafia kills 1

Then
1 mafiso 48 hour delay
1 townies 44 hour delay<he can fire first
you see where this is going

Basically what I'm saying is if it is not exactly 3 days or more than the town still has a chance. I am merely stating keeping track of the hours may be important when considering endgame. Kinda like how mafia can expose themselves during a quick lynch.

And about power roles, 1 cop would be too much. That 1 cop finds scum and either him or someelse kills the scum. 1 Mafiso will then kill the cop. Town kills the cop killer. Only 1 scum left. Mafia's chance of winning has diminshed big time. Since there are no nights Mafia will reveal themselves as they kill any and all powers so I don't think you should have any unless you do full on bad idea mafia.

Each Then represents a new real life day and not a new gameday so I got the wrong message. That was posted that while under the impression that the delays did not reset each game day but rather ended based on the exact game day start after your shot. Beep! Beep! saw the deadlines as being the same thing since she said people would get their shot back at different times. But with the rule Guardian tried to impose we all got our shots back at the same time based on the current day. So instead of this:

Reload times:

Beep! Beep! - LOADED
Mike O'Malley: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:45 pm - RELOADED
CPE: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:37 am - RELOADED
Primate: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:49 am - RELOADED
ooba: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:12 am - RELOADED
Twomz: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:11 pm
Andycyca: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:53 pm

By 3:53 this afternoon, each and everyone of us will be able to shoot down any other player.

So again, correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the hypothesis that the scum would hold on to their kill (we have an infinite number of kills, remember) for end game can be safely shot down, pun intended. All but two players are now loaded.

I have a suggestion.
Press "1" to hear suggestion.
Press "2" to press the "2" key.
Press "3" to leave a fingerprint on your telephone.

All of those people got their bullet back at 4:40pm Feb 26 on gameday 12 since game day twelve started at 4:40 on the 25.

This delay thing was not fully figured out until ooba had to shoot twomz twice. And the first one did not work. Guardian should have got on the clarify things better then since it was obvious no one had figured out what he meant. Twomz appeared to have figured it out. How i don't know but he may want to explain next time instead of just say nope try again.

I think The original deadline me and beep! beep! thought existed would have made things more interesting. Guardian confused me in discussion forum thread and I guess i wasn't the only one that didn't get how he orginally explained it here and in that tread. The mafia kill is powerful the way guardian thought of the delays while it is fairly pointless the way I thought delays were done.

Running this game with either type of delay setup can be fun but i think there needs to be better means of clarifying these types of rules to the user so they are understood well before the game starts and not during the game itself.
_________________

3)

The

"exact" spelling

in kill rule is crap. I turned off my browsers spell checking permitnatly after this thing. After all every Game on this site with Voting and Killing allows abreviations and slight spelling errors. Even Bad Idea 1 allowed spelling errors. InHimshallibe posted:

Kill: Pooky

Yay!

And <3 Fritzler.

and not

Kill: Pooky The Magical Bear

and Kill pooky was enough for it to be counted. This rule should definatly go it did perhaps the most havoc in this game since I can recall players besides me having to deal with its crap mechanics. I could understand the rule if both "Cogito Ergo

Sum

" and "Cogito Ergo

Scum

" were in the game otherwise it is useless. Exact Spelling would be needed there but certainly not here.
_________________

4)

I'd suggest also having players post VERB: x, and you write a flavorful deathscene with their chosen verb. Like chainsaw, eat, swallow, cause to evaporate with a lazer beam... whatever.

I approve of this product

I like this thought too, but some people may come to take certain killing methods as being too personal or offensive or gruesome. Here is an example how would you feel if you were Mr. X and I killed you in the following method:

Pummel: Mr. X

. Death Scene: PokerFace grabs Mr. X's Leg. He then takes a machette and cuts Mr. X's Leg off. Mr. X proceeds to hop arround a little bit with a bloody stump. PokerFace raises the leg over his head and bashes Mr. X in the head. Mr. X falls to the ground and PokerFace proceeds to

pummel

Mr. X to death with his own leg while Mr. X bleeds out

Funny yet gruesome. How would you feel? Just be glad I didn't choose to

Torture: Mr. X

by strapping him to a chair and forcing him to watch reruns of Barney the Dinosaur and the Rosie O' Donnel Show.

I do like the idea but I think finding the proper eviroment for it may be difficult. Its better if you were to consider it being used in something like "Ready Aim Fire". All and all Worse Idea Mafia was fun. But it is as much mafia as "Ready aim Fire" can be consider as mafia. And "Ready Aim Fire" has pretty much no simularities to mafia besides the use of WIFOM. The irc server i am on needs to stop listing "Ready Aim Fire as a mafia game type, that is for certain.

Well good game everybody. Despite having things not go my way I had fun. Good luck to all the scum, you did pretty well. Town did pretty good in some respects Hopefully when I get back after my temp mafia game leave cause of some tasks I need to do in real life I'll be able to play a game like this again. Later everyone. gg
_________________

"The Leg pummeling to death thing is a Fatality in Mortal Kombat 4 which is not rated M so mentioning here is ok since I actually find it a little funny. Like how in Red vs Blue a character was beaten to death with his own skull"

[PokerFace]

This had a very appropriate name.

If Killa wasn't stupid well not like he wasn't the only one...seriously..over defensive? Yeah, in stupid dumb mafia land... After you just said to not kill? I was like 90% sure you were mafia from that post.

I believe beep beep or whatever was the one said I had no reason for killing Korlash, well you're wrong. Pay attention to the other thread, Korlash said "So, first one to post eh?" or whatever. If you don't understand, it means he challenged me to kill him before he kills me. Simple logic. I guessed beep beep and ooba were mafia.

Hmmm, at least it went fast.

ooba was not mafia. Beep! Beep!, Cephrir and Mike O' Malley were.

[PokerFace]

hmm... I read part of that wrong since i have not been getting much sleep latly. My bad Jester. I am off to bed now and I probably won't be on MS outside of the discussion forums again for quite some time. See my sig for details or a previous post for details. later

[PokerFace]

Woah primate calm down buddy. You need to realize I often post nonsense with little bits of truth to it in some areas. That is my comedic fashion. I have fun like that some times. You act like you hate me. I certainly don't hate you, so lighten up buddy. And your kill certainly looked random when you consider you never gave a reason and you practically bit Sir. Tornado's head off when he asked you for a reason.

Yeah, there are a couple of other players who post in the same manner as you, and I dislike it because often they're sufficiently unfunny that their posting just makes them look like idiots who can't string together decent ideas. And there might be a gem of truth in there, but honestly I can't be bothered digging through all the crap to find it. Each to their own I guess *shrug*.

Meh I tried to make peace/explain things in a different manner so that maybe you'd be encouraged to look through that thing. The only things there that were close to nonsense and not relevant to the game is the dice stuff and if you ain't willing to have an open mind, think outside the box, or ignore the parts that bother you then I guess you'll just remain ignorant of ideas and rules you should have read. Sure we lost this game but it was fun even from my perspective, but you refusing to learn from this game means you are unlikly to do better next time. And dooming yourself to repeat your failure is kinda foolish. Confusious said: Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do. At least I know you read and tried something since you thought it was nonsence but not being able to pay attention and find what is important as you have fun is kinda sad.

And as far as you saying you didn't know what the mafia win condition was it was discussed in the discussion forum so you should have seen it. Or you could have assumed it since the USUAL mafia win condition is ALWAYS to impede the town from achieving its win condition. The town wincodition was sent to you and in the thread. And the usual and easiest way for mafia to do this is by the mafia simply gaining a majority control so that they have the most say. What grants the most say in this game is number of bullets since they work like lynches here. True mafia requires lynching and IF (Alive Mafia > Alive Town) THAN ton can't control the lynches. Mafia then controls the lynches or rather the bullets here. That is a simple concept. In general, Mafia wins when they stop the town from winning. I can't believe anyone could not see something that obvious or simple. Its stupid for anyone to think otherwise. Pot meet kettle and realize who was the stupid one. And any game that does not involve the mafia taking control and thus taking over the lynchings is not mafia. Worse Idea Mafia is CLOSE to being mafia, it only lacks the majority rule granting mafia lynch power and replaces it with the {delay vs bullet count} rule.

Oh well I'm done conversing with you about all that. I try to be your friend and help, oh well. At least I had fun playing with you in scum chat once, I do recall, so I look forward to playing with you again in that respect. Because I actually think you are a good player so don't misunderstand what I am saying. I hope you weren't too drunk in chat to remember that game. GG Primte hope to play with you again and I'm sorry if I upset you but you should not be so unwilling to learn and prepare for a game.

_________________

Now on to the main reason I got on the site today. I posted this yesterday about delays and left something out:

2)

And now About the

delays

. In the discussion forum i posted this.

I just thought of something wierd with your statements above

Say this happens like you mentioned
1 mafiso no delay
3 townies 3 day each has 68 delay
mafia kills 1

Then
1 mafiso 24 hour delay
2 townies 68 hour delay

time passes
1 mafiso no delay
2 townies 44 hour delay
mafia kills 1

Then
1 mafiso 48 hour delay
1 townies 44 hour delay<he can fire first
you see where this is going

Basically what I'm saying is if it is not exactly 3 days or more than the town still has a chance. I am merely stating keeping track of the hours may be important when considering endgame. Kinda like how mafia can expose themselves during a quick lynch.

And about power roles, 1 cop would be too much. That 1 cop finds scum and either him or someelse kills the scum. 1 Mafiso will then kill the cop. Town kills the cop killer. Only 1 scum left. Mafia's chance of winning has diminshed big time. Since there are no nights Mafia will reveal themselves as they kill any and all powers so I don't think you should have any unless you do full on bad idea mafia.

Each Then represents a new real life day and not a new gameday so I got the wrong message. That was posted that while under the impression that the delays did not reset each game day but rather ended based on the exact game day start after your shot. Beep! Beep! saw the deadlines as being the same thing since she said people would get their shot back at different times. But with the rule Guardian tried to impose we all got our shots back at the same time based on the current day. So instead of this:

Reload times:

Beep! Beep! - LOADED
Mike O'Malley: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:45 pm - RELOADED
CPE: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:37 am - RELOADED
Primate: Tue Feb 26, 2008 2:49 am - RELOADED
ooba: Tue Feb 26, 2008 10:12 am - RELOADED
Twomz: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:11 pm
Andycyca: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:53 pm

By 3:53 this afternoon, each and everyone of us will be able to shoot down any other player.

So again, correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the hypothesis that the scum would hold on to their kill (we have an infinite number of kills, remember) for end game can be safely shot down, pun intended. All but two players are now loaded.

I have a suggestion.
Press "1" to hear suggestion.
Press "2" to press the "2" key.
Press "3" to leave a fingerprint on your telephone.

All of those people got their bullet back at 4:40pm Feb 26 on gameday 12 since game day twelve started at 4:40 on the 25.

This delay thing was not fully figured out until ooba had to shoot twomz twice. And the first one did not work. Guardian should have got on the clarify things better then since it was obvious no one had figured out what he meant. Twomz appeared to have figured it out. How i don't know but he may want to explain next time instead of just say nope try again.

I think The original deadline me and beep! beep! thought existed would have made things more interesting. Guardian confused me in discussion forum thread and I guess i wasn't the only one that didn't get how he orginally explained it here and in that tread. The mafia kill is powerful the way guardian thought of the delays while it is fairly pointless the way I thought delays were done.

Running this game with either type of delay setup can be fun but i think there needs to be better means of clarifying these types of rules to the user so they are understood well before the game starts and not during the game itself.

In the discussion forum guardian said the following:

...If the mafia could ever win by day-vigging as soon as possible on any number of consecutive days, they win. Ex: 3 townies are left, all with 3 day delays. There is 1 mafia left with no delay yet. The mafioso wins...

Basically 1 fully loaded Mafiso could gun down 3 townies that 3 shots fired. He said that with incorrect math about his own game because in retrospect this game ended with 1 mafiso

who had fired 1 shot (he not fully loaded) gunning down 2 townies that did not have delays as great as uardian said. This means the mafia has a greater chance of victory than guardian originally implied. I wonder if he originally invisioned the game with the deadlay I saw in the disscussion forum because it certainly looks like he changed the rules. You shouldn't change/add rules like that between discussion and game. I believe you said you wouldn't change/add rules that weren't disccused. The spelling rule wasn't in the discussion thing either. Changing rules and misrepresenting material before a game is borderline bastard modding. But I still find you cool Guardian cause I did learn the most important part about that example.

The example meant equal or greater delays than the mafiso can secure a win for the scum. This is why it is best for all players to have the same delay and not have 1 player whether he be town or scum have a delay shorter than the others. Because if at any point the Mafia has a short enough deadllay he can kill everyone and win which is exactly what happened here. Keep everyone at the same delay wether it is none, 1day, or 2day. That is the golden rule and anyone that fails to realize that should be shot in the game. That is the most effective way to find scum ie bullet holders. There I told you guys 'part' of my "how to win as town strategy."

_________________

Hi Andycyca,

I'm not sure if you thought of this or not, but I asked Guardian whether the following scenario could occur:
---
(Day starts with Mike, Andy, and Primate remaining ...)

Mike O' Malley:

Mafia Kill: Primate

(24 hour countdown occurs)

Andycyca:

Mafia Kill: Anyone

(Andycyca commits suicide)

(Does Andy's suicide negate Mike's Mafia Kill?)

(If so, and suppose Mike O' Malley AWOLs for 24 hours)

Primate:

Kill: Mike O' Malley

---
Unfortunately, Guardian told me that a suicide does not reset Mafia Kill's timer.

Otherwise, there might have been one last chance for the town to win at the end if Mike went AWOL'd

This is a very interesting idea. I did not think of this idea, kudos for thinking outside the box Lloyd. I am kinda surprised guardian said it would not work. Makes sence it would or at least should since it was noted that the first 'kill' made happens and ends the day. I would consider a suicide a 'kill' of yourself but a kill none the less. Bad Idea 2 had the stipulation that players without bullets can't shoot or they'll be mod killed and the day would end. I guess Guardian is truly a different mod in a different game than "Bad Idea Mafia".

_________________

Well Now I'm done. Guardian thanks for the game. Despite my gripping you are an ok guy. Don't misjudge what I am saying, I am trying to objectively list ideas for next time after all. Should you make a screw the players version I'd be glad to be /in for that or help you hold it in mish mash some day. The jesters/bomb idea and the players write the kill scene I think are mechanics that might need tested there to see how well or good they would be for the game. GG everyone later.

[PokerFace]

hmm... well I suppose you're right. I am allowing my ego to get the best. I guess I'm just a little bothered I didn't get a chance to try some of my ideas or have my kill count. Your math does have some value as you pointed out. From a perspective of knowing the bullet holder is town (ie-you are bullet holder) and getting yourself a delay less than the mafia you can do fairly well.

My math more so relies on not knowing the bullet holders alignment because you aren't the bullet holder. Because I still have urge to shoot I look at it this way while perhaps your idea may be better. If there is a way to limit everyone bullets equally so the mafia can't use the pre-kill (my math) and town can have lower delays and in a sence hold their bullet (your math) then perhaps there is a better strategy here that I don't see yet.

Oh well I'm done thinking about this game now. My death kinda led to finding real scum which in a sence is a greater town victory than a sparatic random killing. Something earned is greater than your own luck since relying on luck is the worse thing you can ever do, its better to earn an achievement. Well I got some important stuff to do. GG everbody.