Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'd like to start by saying hello to nancy, who I killed because she intimidated me last game, and to Aristophanes, who I killed because he wasn't easy to lynch.

VOTE: Tchill13

Let's not make this game fast-paced and meme-ful. I'm already currently playing that is hard to follow. Instead, let's take our time to chew everything and make meaning out of everything.

I'm here to eat bananas and scum. And I'm all out of bananas.

No referencing ongoing games. Segment removed.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sorry I'm too nice.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: PersephoneSidekick

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hi nancy. This vote is to add weight to the Robbinva-PersephoneSidekick conflict. Basically, I want them to squabble while I observe from a distance.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Do you think Percy trying to add reason to his RVS a bit odd? Like as if he's trying hard not to make his vote scummy?

[humaneatingmonkey]

How much do you trust that read?

[humaneatingmonkey]

This.

Sup

VOTE: Robbnva for not voting. We must have blood.

This feels like Percy wants to blend in during RVS but he wants to make his RVS the least suspicious so he throws in a little reason on it.

Kinda felt like Robb was into something. Curious to why he didn't want to pursue it just because there's "limited posts and lack of cares right now." (Just because we're in the RVS stage, I guess.)

[humaneatingmonkey]

For me, it's only more scummy after the fact.

[humaneatingmonkey]

@Percy: Sorry for not addressing you properly. My native language has no separate pronouns for men and women so it gets confusing.

Tchill's vote switch sucked.
So is Massive's vote. Condescending is not scummy?
Korts, Percy's vote was out of place because it's an actual reason. A real reason. Not a joke reason.
Dark Horse, I mean Percy's reaction was only more scummy after the fact that she tried to vote with reason. Then pass it off as RVS. Look at how she explained it in #42
Percy is scummy. But I have to place my vote to someone more scummy that she is.

VOTE: TChill

VOTE: PersephoneSidekick

Just helping the wagon along.

Honestly I feel like the reason for the wagon building on them right now is pretty stupid.

VOTE: robbnva

????????

Who's them TChill? Percy and Robb? So why cast your vote there? And for what reason?

[humaneatingmonkey]

if you say so

I feel better about my vote the more you post

So get her posting more.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hey Persephone, why did you dismiss Robb's challenge of your vote with "lol RVS"? What did you hope to achieve?

That was meant as a flippant attack rather than a flippant defense actually. Like "why are you being so defensive about an RVS" was roughly the intended meaning. Tone is really hard in text. It wasn't a super calculated move beyond just wanting to keep poking at the little micro-conflict in the hopes that it would produce something useful to me or (more realistically) more experienced people than me. I made myself resist the urge to actually justify myself until morning because defusing the conflict early would waste the opportunity to use it to end RVS.

Ultimately, I consider my approach vindicated by the fact that it produced a wagon to talk about, even if it's on me. Unless I actually get lynched it will totally have been worth it.

This smells like fake news. "Haha I meant to do that all along." does not match what looked like a genuine reaction to an unexpected inquiry by Robb.

Fake news. Bad.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Is it considered actively better to vote for a blatant joke reason in RVS than for a reason that is "real" but blatantly insufficient, and if so, why? Real question; it's my first non-newbie game.

Irrelevant question. Nothing is better. Whatever you do, if you're scummy, people will call you out on it. Just do whatever you think is best to do as town. This is hard to fake if you're scum. People can smell fake and fake attempts. So if you're trying to fake something, you're probably scum. And people will call you out on it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: PersephoneSidekick

Changed my mind again. This is scum.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Nah. Ari and I have history. I'm also no stranger to his friendship with nancy.

Korts, what do you think RVS should look like then? And what kind of gain would you think I would get if ever I pin Percy right now at every turn? She does seem very very scummy being too wary what the town thinks about her and asking for what behavior is acceptable for town. What do you think about my thoughts about her?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Nah. Ari and I have history. I'm also no stranger to his friendship with nancy.

Uhh, okay? None of that is important to me at all. I am not genuinely pursuing the Ari angle. I am simply baffled that you think RVS is for jokes.

~~~~

What do I think of your thoughts on Persephone? I thought I made myself clear. I think your "reason" argument is bullshit. I don't think you have anything else, other than a vague accusation of "fakeness."

Well, yeah. That's all I have right now. That's the reason I'm voting. I think Percy's been faking it. See my ISO. And I think it's pretty legitimate.

"None of that is important to me at all." Yeah it is. So why include the Ari part? You said it irked you because I didn't use the same logic to Ari. Now I just debunked your claim that I'm selective in my logic and therefore not opportunistic, just legitimately spotting scummy behavior.

It's you who have nothing now. So AMA.

Which is not to say that I don't think Persephone isn't suspcious independent of your arguments. Her play has been pretty poor so far - but yours can be characterized more specifically as opportunistic.

So how do you read Persephone's ISO then? What do you not agree on me about?

monkey is stirring shit and openly challenging townreads on himself, like what the hell, dude?

People quick to townread over something NAI is scummy for me. It means they have no paranoia and it means that they already know who's flipping town. I'm not "stirring shit". Although thanks for ruining this because I will never know how Ginngie will react.

What would I gain as scum by pushing Percy's wagon right now if not to scumhunt and to learn from her reactions? What would I gain as scum by openly questioning townreads people have on me this early? You don't call people scum just because you disagree with them.

Nice try. Maybe join me in VOTE: TChill is better use of your time not making weak arguments like this and believing you actually solved the game.

Percy's starting to look fine now, I guess. But still looking like she's pandering. I'll give distance and watch her try to scumhunt.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hi. I need to finish some work-related things. Mafia took too much of my time this weekend. Gonna need to excuse myself until 28 hours from now.

Mod take note.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hi. I promised I'll come back. So I did. Tell me if I missed something.

My questions aren't rhetorical. I'd like an answer to them. Don't ignore me.

=====================================================
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS
=====================================================

@Korts

~~~~~

Which is not to say that I don't think Persephone isn't suspcious independent of your arguments. Her play has been pretty poor so far - but yours can be characterized more specifically as opportunistic.

So how do you read Persephone's ISO then? What do you not agree on me about?

~~~~~

What would I gain as scum by pushing Percy's wagon right now if not to scumhunt and to learn from her reactions?
What would I gain as scum by openly questioning townreads people have on me this early?

--------
That said, if you have questions I needed answered, quote it to me.
=====================================================
ACTUAL POST
=====================================================
@TChill

Yeah so far my thoughts are there's been way too much attention brought on to Percy for a simple rvs vote. Then I believe it seemed like korts and monkey were looking into it a little too much. Specifically korts with his accusation of Percy using wifom. Percy got called out for a BS reason.

She then tried to provide information that wasn't there to appease those who were giving her attention. Of course that's gonna come off as scummy especially if your thought process is biased.

Don't you think the mere fact that she wasn't giving genuine answers and she was making it up to appease the town IS a bit scummy?
Who do you think is scum?

Well dark horse I was trying to understand why monkey was throwing shade this way and that way but voting me instead.

Unlike Korts, I don't vote someone who I only disagree with. His push against me was NAI. It could be something a town can do, but it lost townpoints because it was a bullshit push. Anyway, why do you think that I had to vote Korts?
--------
Nancy is SURPRISINGLY eloquent and non-joky, different from the game I had with her when she was town.

@Nancy

What's different this game?
--------
@Massive

I was ok with 42-44.

What about 42 to 44 are you okay with? What do you think about my arguments about how Persephone is making shit up just to appease town and now sounding like she's pandering?

VOTE: Robbnva

Well there's no need to be condescending.

Why do you think being condescending is alignment indicative? How is this a valid case to make? This was your third post in the game and third different vote. Did you have a reason to quit liking the Perse wagon for this?

I've already said I was content with 42-44, AND I've already said why I voted Robb, so I assume you'll get to it since you appear to be catching up on oh 4 pages one post at a time. And who said I needed to make a valid case? And who said being condescending is alignment-indicative?

Huh, nope, you didn't follow up your own questions with the answers, just left it to look like I didn't answer them already, and then made a scumread based off of it.

VOTE: Kaboose

Did you think Robb was scum? If not, why did you vote him? Do you think Kaboose is scum? If not, why did you vote him?

If you feel like I'm scum then vote me. It's gonna take some bad scum exposure to get me lynched and that's worthwhile for the town.

Am I the only one who thinks this is LAMIST as fuck?
--------
Like I said, I think there is a disconnect between her reaction vs what she claims an intended "reaction test". She's lying about that. She's lying about that. She's lying about that. And I think that's scummy.

On a personal note, Percy, I'm your friend outside of this game. Don't worry. Just play the game to whatever your role is without trying to be friends with us. That comes after.
--------

who is dumb enough to scum read Korts?

Why do you think it's dum-dum to scumread Korts?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm lurking because I can't find the time to analyze the thread right now with so much on my mind from work. Sorry.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Still lurking. I'm very sorry.

Percy, you take care. Remember, I'm your friend outside this game.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Tchill looks as if he isn't sorting. He looks like scum trying to see which town is easiest to mislynch.

Chill, if you can even explain the "WIFOM argument" and what you agree about it, I will dismiss you as town. Go.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, not gonna lie. My head's not on mafiascum these past few days. I'm busy with work. I'm sarreh. I'm gonna be more substantive next time.

[humaneatingmonkey]

3 days left. I'm gonna go and read and then post my scumreads. I'm gonna ctrl+f monkey on every page to see if there's any questions I can answer.

[humaneatingmonkey]

questionansweringmonkey

it's interesting that you found me intimidating there - didn't think I really was

it was because you're reading me scum in a game no one is. you had the ability to see through my bullshit in the middle of the day. and people might actually listen to you if you flipped town. we can discuss this more in our dead thread.

why would hearing his explanation for the WIFOM argument in particular make him town to you

I don't. It was a reaction test. He "liked the WIFOM argument" when it's really weak and NAI. I think I even explained that it's not WIFOM and it's just Korts forming that narrative. Still, he "liked the WIFOM argument". It seemed like a bullshit reason to deflect attention. I want him to compound on that so hard.

your read on Tchill is a little weird and I'd like it if you were able to lock down your stance on that

i will in a few.

questionaskingmonkey

Do we think still think that Percy deliberately set up his Robb vote to get us out of RVS? She didn't. She lied about that when she said it. Her reaction to Robb is not the reaction of someone who has deliberately set that up. And no, even if she lied under pressure, it doesn't make it "okay" like TChill claims. It's even more scummy that way. No towncreds for that. Just full scumpoints. And it's true. That vote to Robb at the start of the game stands out because it looks like scum trying to look like it has the least suspicious RVS vote. Sorry Korts. So let's get that out of the way.

Also, what's with my game that feels like I'm trying hard to look town? I don't get it. Is it because of my meta? Don't you think I would have changed since the last game?

To be honest, until I looked at his join date right now, I legit thought this was his first game on this site and he was trying what could have worked on another site to get a townie lynched.

So now that you saw his join date, do you think he is still trying what could have worked yadda yadda?

Also:

this is basically how I play when I'm not trolling around - Transcend's game wasn't representative of my normal play at all, especially not over the past fortnight or so (recently decided to make a pretty conscious change to my play)

Anyone played with nancy before? Can anyone confirm this?


@Vecna, what do you think about the Robb and the Chill wagon? Any insights on the early ker·fuf·fle about Percy?

scumhuntingmonkey

@Assemble

Assemble comes in and comes out with bullshit votes, not really trying to sort town.

Later he comes up with this scumfuck of a statement:

I'm fairly certain at least two of TChill, ginngie, monkey, and Kaboose are scum, because

they all have different scummy habits I saw people pointing out while rereading.

The trick is figuring out which is which.

????

I think this slot doesn't look like it's here to lynch scum. Maybe scum.

@nancy

nancy looks town. but this isn't the town nancy i know. I'm unsure. she poses a more analytical and careful character than the scream-what's-on-top-of-my-head than I faced. Could be a change of gameplay or she could just be like this when she's not trolling, but I don't see how you can transition from that to this. This may be her version of "being LAMIST".

((full disclosure. had to go back and change your pronouns to she/her))

@Ari+Vecna

Not gonna comment on Ari.
Too early to get a good read on Vecna. His reads are NAI. I want him to interact and reason with people.

Can I do the others later? I need to work and this is taking me so long.

Still need to give thoughts about these guys:
Dark Horse
Massive
Grendel+Kaboose
Korts
Ginngie
Sunlit+Draynth
Eddie+Percy
Tchill
Robb

monkeythoughts

I think with the loss of momentum Tchill's wagon had, I can say that it's -not- a mislynch wagon. Mainly because I don't see scum leaving Tchill alone if he's town. Chill-flip is good either way. This is the guy I'll be lynching today.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm gonna make everyone's jaw drop and pre-emptively say (even before publishing my analysis) that while Korts and I aren't the best of friends, I townread him. Korts is just naturally hostile and I'm naturally a monkey.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Robb's sorry story is off. I don't buy that he's upset. That's a huge shift in tone which nullifies any townread I had with him so far? I think it's a very calculated AtE?

But if you really are, I'll make a sidenote and say that I'm your friend outside of this game. It's not really a player vs player but a slot vs slot—except when it gets personal. And I have nothing personal against you, Rob.

[humaneatingmonkey]

hi i cant go back to continuing my post. it's another busy day at work.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Isn't that a bit too early? UNVOTE:

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't buy Vecna's claim and his tone from Ginngie is suspect. Also the timing of his claim is off and the way he wants to reveal his PR role is off.

[humaneatingmonkey]

But I'm not caught up in full so I'm not gonna vote yet.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So Sunlit, you're saying one of Korts and I are scum. Since I already know my alignment (town, omg LAMIST!), what about Korts is scummy?

[humaneatingmonkey]

No wait wait wait wait so why did you think Vecna's assessment was right when his assessment was that Korts and I are mutually exclusively scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Oh my god you're scum too aren't you

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm online catching up to another game thread. I think if Chill's a serial killer, he just dug a whole so deep that he can't ever win. Especially if it's a limited vig role. Are unli-vigs common?

[humaneatingmonkey]

*hole. goddamnit. Post counts reset every day, right?

[humaneatingmonkey]

without catching up, I'll vote this slot VOTE: Eddie Cane for post 629 and 633 alone.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I will catch-up tho.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Please request for an extension. If I get to L-2, I will claim.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Nancy should I claim? I don't want to get lynched.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Asking Nancy because she's my strongest gut town read and my only reservation is a meta-read from one game that she's been only a 1 day part of.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm so sorry I haven't had the time for mafiascum recently. I could have probably helped to be read a little better.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Explain please. I don't see you as town because with a quick scroll of your ISO it gives me scumvibes that I don't have the time to process.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Am I the only one who believes that those who set-up "if-then" statements are more likely scum?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm not stalling I work in television and film production so that might give you guys an insight to why I'm always away and posting at odd times.

Grendel's reasons for scumreading me is bad. It's an attack to character more than anything. Like if you're gonna attack me for my character, he would have at least sat down to see my past games to confirm that. His reasons for scumreading me is NAI.

This whole wagon about me smells like a scum wagon, to be honest.

Eddie, what happened to Ginngie, Korts, or I? Why are you suggesting SD?

[humaneatingmonkey]

And of course I'm gonna ask nancy. My wagon has only three votes. I just want to know if the wagon will take off so I can claim now. I'm only gonna bend the knee to my townreads and the only townread I'm comfortable on speaking out is nancy.

[humaneatingmonkey]

How much time do you have? Go read the thread again because I'm a town PR role.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If you're scum you just did a very good job of convincing me to claim with three votes in.

[humaneatingmonkey]

So congrats.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Why did I claim

[humaneatingmonkey]

This is my fault for signing up to a lot of games.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Eddie Cane is scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

Vecna what do you think about Grendel and Eddie

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm town. VOTE: Vecna

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't know which roles doesn't make sense with JK. I'm not that knowledgeable about roles

Also, I PMed RC for an extension. It feels like scum is okay with the situation right now so I even doubt my Vecna vote.

[humaneatingmonkey]

because if scum is lynchable right now, I have no doubt they will extend

[humaneatingmonkey]

Was it Eddie Cane's original thought that the scum didn't send an extension PM? Because that's a pretty sketchy thought out of nowhere. I didn't even think about that. It sorta feels like that's what he did.

VOTE: Eddie Cane

Let's flashwagon this?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Nancy can you please remind me? I'm on mobile and it's hard to scroll back and check to see what my mindset was back then. I'm sorta detached to the game since I lurked around because of work.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I suddenly believe the narrative that Vecna is town because we would have been in an extension now if he was scum. Or Grendel was Vecna's buddy that pushed to my lynch with his bullshit reasons so that I can be flashlynched.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll bet you hard cash that I'm town this game. Is that allowed on this site?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Lmao sorry I'm still at day 5 on set we've been filming for 18 hours now. I don't think Eddie will be lynched today. I suddenly believe that Vecna is actually jailkeeper. I'm willing to trade places with him if people don't want to lynch outside of Vecna and I. But that's my last option. Otherwise, I want to lynch someone else other than Vecna.

[humaneatingmonkey]

nancy what do you think about that? i'm shamelessly gonna buddy with you right now i dont even care

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm shooting a film called "Khaeen: The Seige of Marawi" it's based on the terrorist attack here in the Philippines.

Do you think we should wait to see if others go online or should we just lynch Vecna right now? I don't really want to be part of what I think is a town jailkeeper. But I don't know if I'm more valuable than he is.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't really want to be part of *the lynch of what I think is a town jailkeeper. I'm so tired

[humaneatingmonkey]

Filipino with a hard F.

Yeaaaah I just read the wiki. I'm still not okay with a Vecna lynch. I don't want to lynch at all. It's either Eddie or no lynch for me sorry town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Nancy, do you think I should opt to lynch Vecna if I don't think he's scum than to no-lynch? No lynch is pretty controversial in this site.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm voting Vecna. But I don't think he'll flip scum. VOTE: Vecna

[humaneatingmonkey]

If the wagon shifts to me at L-2, I'll hardclaim.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Because I strong townread her and I have 0 interest to be alone in my decisions

[humaneatingmonkey]

Especially since I'm half mentally retarded right now with no sleep and all

VOTE: Assembler

[humaneatingmonkey]

Sorry nancy

[humaneatingmonkey]

Don't like the way monkey starts to doubt vecna being scum, seems like a kinda last minute thing if venca would flip town.

what dont you like about it does it not make sense that if vecna was scum, scum would have PMed RC for an extension?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I agree on you about Korts he didn't attack me for the same thing he attacked Vecna. I really think Grendel and Eddie is scum because of Grendel's bullshit vote reasons on me and Eddie's sentiment about the game not extending.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'll get back on you about that grendel thingy tomorrow because im too lazy to scroll.

"You talking about how you'd be fine lynching yourself over vecna felt weird. Like it felt like that was something you were saying because it was so close to the deadline that you getting lynched isn't something that would actually happen."
I can see what you mean. But I said that because I don't want to lynch a jailkeeper claimant when he could actually be a jailkeeper. I was okay with getting lynched before until nancy said that it's a bad move. in hindsight i think it was a stupid thing to type and press submit because im a confirmed town (in my perspective) and he's just a claimant.

[humaneatingmonkey]

But I believe him 100%. I just hope he jails someone else that isn't a PR claimant so at least they can confirm that he's a jailkeeper and not just a roleblocker

[humaneatingmonkey]

I hope T-Chill vigs someone that isn't a PR claimant too to confirm his townspot.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Other than that, I'm fine with being put on the spotlight tomorrow with Vecna to discuss roles. I feel like the scum won't kill outside of Vecna, Chill, and I if Vecna and chill are town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also if I end up in the gutter tomorrow (I probably won't because I'm top town suspect), I'm sorry I played poorly recently. I'll read the game during the night.

[humaneatingmonkey]

If we have an extension right now, then my point is still valid maybe because scum could have woke up and then extended after me saying that about Eddie. How likely could that be nancy?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Well maybe they saw that and then said "hey yeah let's go for an extension right now" and PMed RC. I don't know. I'll go to sleep.

[humaneatingmonkey]

holy shit

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Monkey

What's your case on Eddie, TChill?

If he had a solid amount of justification against monkey why wasn't monkey the one that got flash wagoned?

Can't answer for anyone else, but I switched my vote because Monkey claimed and even if it was scummy as fuck town still needed time to discuss it.

Lynch successfully averted and now we have PLENTY of time, so...

VOTE: Monkey

So, what's the case on me DH and SD? I'd like to hear it.

[humaneatingmonkey]

My issue with a no lynch day 1 is we're in the SAME EXACT situation on day 2 we just gave scum a free PR kill.

I think I made the right call to not lynch Vecna, tho. I don't believe that we're exactly where we were. The wagon around Vecna is the hint. We have the added bonus of not losing two town PRs in the same day.

Why didn't you confirm your role? massive's right. Why didn't you make it up by shooting Assemble?

[humaneatingmonkey]

VOTE: Monkey

I think the statement "same exact situation" tells me you haven't been reading. Make that move right now.

[humaneatingmonkey]

"I realize it could also be a SUPER handy cover up."
"A Tchill/Vecna team yea.

Vecna dead tho so :3

Also, Tchill claimed before Vecna so it's not like Tchill could have planned that"

TChill could use this excuse even if Vecna dies.

I just want to hear from TChill if he indeed used his ability last night and if he's claiming one-shot vig.

[humaneatingmonkey]

There are two scenarios here for TChill:
(1) town, but dense enough to not understand that scum kills every night anyway and it's good that we didn't lose two claimed PRs (in this scenario, Chill is town) through ML + NK. And also, he didn't think he needed to confirm his PR role for town.
(2) scum, claimed a vig role last night but couldn't deliver the confirmation (obviously) so he decides it's a good excuse to use the no lynch yesterday and exclaim frustration.

Which one is it?

TChill, why didn't you want to confirm your PR role for town? Is your reason simply because you didn't want to kill a townie on accident? When do you think is the appropriate time for you to use your ability if not for Assembletrows?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Just have me survive until Day 3 and we're good.

DH, that "you weren't reading" quote was a misquote. it was supposed to be TChill.

Also, I'm not targeting TChill. I'm sorting him. It's the easiest sort of the day since he's claimed vig but the problem is he didn't confirm the kill which is suspect.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hi. I've been prodded. I should really start declaring V/LAs.

I like how Gamma Emerald went in. It's a town entrance. Instead of coming in with an obvious agenda, he took time to read through the thread and move on from there. Definitely town.

[humaneatingmonkey]

We already had a wagon to analyze.

Work's done. I can be active as I please now. Gonna do what Gamma Emerald did because that was an effective way to catch up.

[humaneatingmonkey]

1-3 thoughts:
#11 Gonna stand by my read about PS here. Voting for game-related reasons that early in RVS feels like a cautious scum. But of course it's a weak read. PS's reaction in #13, #15, #42 does not reflect what she claims in #21, #57, and #58. She's lying. I don't think lying often comes from town. #72 PS gets towncredit for townreading me at a point where scumreading me—I think—was a better scum play.

Robb vs PS looks like TownRobb vs ScumPS or TownRobb vs TownPS. So it isn't likely that there's a partnership between them.

#30 Robb not having anything to add when he's the one who instigated the questioning establishes that he's more inclined to be reactionary rather than trying to figure out the game at this point. But that's NAI at this point.

#46 Was Massive's vote explained here.

Massive?

How is condescending a grounds for voting?

#47 Chill's voting Robb is bad play from both scum and town. NAI.

#64, #66, #67 I think Korts' push against me was really weak in retrospect but it sounds "good" because he was being assertive about it. I don't see how he could have seen me highly scummy there to warrant such aggressiveness. It follows the trend from #25 where Korts misrepresents Robb's idea of RVS as "very narrow". Robb's idea of RVS is the standard paradigm. Korts likes to misrepresent minor thoughts unforgivably. Establishes Korts as a shitstirrer himself. Korts thinks "shit-stirring" is scummy in #69 but that's exactly what he does. #71 is also a bad reason to scumread someone. "WIFOM" (what he assumes is) is NAI. Feels like bad town or scum.

#73 Out of all the weak arguments Korts pushed against me, Assemblerotws chose the weakest to vote me. This could be ScumKorts + ScumAssemble.

Reads so far:

Town:
Leantown:
Nulltown: Robb
Null: Massive, TChill
Nullscum: PS
Leanscum: Korts, Assemble
Scum:

[humaneatingmonkey]

4-6 thoughts:
#79, #81 Chill expecting me to vote Korts when I had a case on him is either him town not reading or scum-motivated deflection. But even then, why would Chill think there was grounds to vote Korts at that point? Actually, my meta on Chill is that he's actually a good player—although ML bait. So none of these bad plays make sense.
#87 I think if Chill was really trying to understand my vote, he would have just read my ISO and found the reason there. This is coming from a scummy place.
#100, #103 I can't understand TChill's defense of PS because it's not coming from a logically-sound place. But it was still looking like it can be town out of touch from the game.
#102 I can't understand why TChill will drop his "Robb is fake scumhunting" read in #98 over Robb's NAI statement AND even warrant an unvote.
#103 I don't see how acknowledging that Percy was lying makes him read her as town. Still coming from a scummy place. "Of course that's gonna come off as scummy especially if your thought process is biased." This sucked. There were valid arguments against Percy that he dismissed as "conf bias". However, #126 Chill's answer was sorta okay, but I don't think presurred town newbies are inclined to lie out of their situation. That's more of a scum newbie. But I can see how Chill and I can disgaree about that as TvT.
#133 and #134 is consistent with defending Percy. With the whole legitimate area of doubt existing around Percy, I don't get why Chill isn't more paranoid about Percy. It can be ScumChill+TownPercy or ScumChill+ScumPercy.

#80 Korts with scum fake bravado or town conf bias. NAI. #88 Korts's thwarting of Chill's agenda may come from town with genuine intention to scumhunt or scum noticing the better possibility of a mislynch through TChill. NAI. Korts vs TChill here looks like TvS from either side. So, my final read may only have either on each side but for now I'll place them both there since there isn't too much that solidifies the idea that only one can be scum.

#82 nancy mentioning my meta to sort me as town feels like something scum wouldn't do.

#90 I was not satisfied with Massive's answer regarding his vote on Robb. Robb's reason may be bad but it's still not grounds for a scumread since it looked strikingly town for me.
#94 #119 Massive it's still unexplined why 42-44 relieves Percy. He also fails to answer that in #138 where he instead dismisses me as cynical. Massive was very defensive of Kaboose "light attack' and I don't get his scumread there other than it's OMGUS.
#119 Massive votes Kaboose for something I think is NAI. It establishes that massive votes based on bad plays rather than alignment-indicative things—which is NAI. But it doesn't excuse the other stuff.

#91 is blatant change subject from Percy. Scummy. His Korts read here is sublime but it can be SvS or TvS from either side.
#111 Percy is still sustaining the narrative that her RVS vote was deliberate. At least she has a consistent narrative now.
#116 #149 Percy's AtE feels real but the way it peters off into a bad inconsistent defense of herself reminds me of my girlfriend when she tries to make me feel sorry and change my mind about what she did. This is coming from a scummy place. But then it might actually feel like she might be frustrated town at #149.

#115 Ginngie's pre-emptive defense of Korts is suspicious. There might be S+S between Korts and Ginngie. Her backtrack on #129 is lame because obviously she was implying that anyone scumreading Korts was dumb.

As for Robb, his tunnelvision is all what makes his play. It' hard to move any reads about him towards town or scum because he's consistent.

Reads so far:

Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Robb
Null:
Nullscum: Percy, Massive
Leanscum: Korts, Assemble, Ginngie, TChill
Scum:

[humaneatingmonkey]

7-9 thoughts:
#150 "What about korts accusing you of wifom? That seemed a little too much in my opinion." Pocketing.
#153 Like I said. Anyone who thinks the WIFOM argument holds any bearing is likely a bad player or scum. Since my meta on Chill is that he's far from a bad player, this is scummy.
#174 TChill confirms my idea that TChill missing points and avoiding questions is just him not paying attention to this game at all. #186 can come from any alignment but it's more indicative of his level of enthusiasm about the game. Instead of backreading to refute some stuff, he directly asks for questions.

#154 Sunlit Diamond is too late to the TChill wagon to be SvS. It's a TvS or a TvT scenario.

#160 Exhibits genuine paranoia but I can agree to disagree with Korts on the RVS vote reason. But he didn't understand why I asked what I would gain for pushing Percy. It was to establish that pushing that Percy wagon early draws unnecessary heat on my place, disadvantaging me as scum. Also, I don't think heading off others to townread me is beneficial for me at this point.

#163 Ginngie gaslighting that "dumb to scumread Korts" implication is hilarious.

#164 Assemblerotws lands a bad vote for a bad reason. The vote was no longer about RVS. He also didn't vote anyone from the list of "scummy people" he said in #172.
#172 This reminds me of a certain president from a global world power. "I believe these people are scum because they are doing scummy things that I saw people say are scummy. What needs to happen is to know exactly which are the scum. We also need to build a wall."
#178 Didn't make much sense and is too much of a bullshit to be town.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Robb
Null: Everyone not in the list.
Nullscum: Percy, Massive, TChill
Leanscum: Korts, Ginngie
Scum: Assemble

[humaneatingmonkey]

10-12

#247 This is different from him being lazy. This is a literal push for something he read. I still the same argument about.
#260 I can understand if he's doing this because he wants me to post, but it's not consistent with him scumhunting. He unvotes in #274. Hehe.
#272 It is at this point I realize no one is defending Tchill except Massive. Neither are there players making the effort to distract the town away from TChill's wagon except Assemblerotws. If TChill flips scum, I'll look towards this direction.
#281 to #283 might be town desperation, scum desperation, or scum bussing so that vote isn't really AI.

Eddie Cane's entrance is suspect. Instead admitting to Percy's obviously scummy play, he doubles down. This is a play that does not make sense as town.
#286-#292 makes little sense.
#293 His read on Robb is not something I can agree to disagree. tunneling is not scum. I don't get too how he would have read ginngie as townlean. "They're too lamisty if ya know what I mean" takes shortcuts instead of actually demonstrating what he means.
These series of posts drive him hard towards red.

#265 Since Ari is LHF, Dark Horse using Ari's meta to townread him gives him towncred.

#266 massive acknowledging that Dark Horse towncred gives him towncred.

#252 Korts' rebuff make him at least consistent.

#267 Ginngie's echo holds less bearing because it's late to the "Ari might be town" wagon.

Robb is demonstrating consistency only town could be capable of.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown: Robb
Nulltown: Dark Horse
Null: Massive, Everyone not in the list.
Nullscum: TChill
Leanscum: Korts, Ginngie
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[humaneatingmonkey]

Off-thoughts: I think it's highly probable that EVERYONE in the last minute assemblerotws wagon is town. Much more probable if Assemblerotws is scum. But still probably if Assemblerotws is town. I think we should all prioritize lynching players we scumread for their play that isn't on that wagon—including Assemblerotws. If I don't like the wagon nearing the deadline, I will push for Assemblerotws lynch.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I also think that there's at least 1 scum in the Vecna wagon.

Also, if I or Ginngie get scumkilled before TChill and TChill has not confirmed by vigging—he's scum.

Anyway,

13-15 This is the punishment that I deserve for not being into the game.

#300 Is a stance against Robb that I can understand if not for Eddie not acknoweldging Percy's past scummy actions.
Eddie is playing well, as in both alignments.
#302 You can really see that he's committed to the push, although his arguments assume to much to be solid. His point of view does not consider the angle that Robb is town. It's NAI, because it can either be aggressive scum or OMGUS-ing town. My best guess motive for it is that he's shaking Robb's confidence off the wagon he's leading. That motive is NAI.
#304 Eddie makes a good point about Robb and TChill. They're not S+S. But I don't get why he choses Robb over TChill other than 1v1-ing Robbnva.
#305 Eddie makes a misrepresenting statement about TChill's play to prove a point that TChill is town. It's consistent with the Percy-TChill S+S relationship. About that: I don't think he gets mislynched because most people gets caught up that he's an ML bait and adjusts their scumreads accordingly. At least according to my own experience. Although he makes an understandable case about Robb's behavior. Problem is: I don't believe that tunnels are alignment-indicative. And in this case, I don't think Robb's tunnel can be viewed as more scum than town. But that's something I can agree to disagree.
#342 Eddie backtracks after being called out. He also starts to acknowledge Percy's scumminess. And somehow this does not absolve Robb of anything. Says he has no choice but to vote him but that's not true. He presents an interesting case against TChill. He townleans assemble—but why?
#368 He makes a case why Robb's anti-town town-looking wagon is actually an anti-town scum-looking wagon in disguise. It makes sense and it changes my mind about Robb a little. But I already have decided Robb's town because of his hard-headedness. His hard-headedness just makes sense as town. And his hard-headed arguments are something I can understand to be coming from town.
#371 is also a good post. But NAI since Eddie has a talent for misrepresentation.

#369 #370 Robb finally strains himself when he reaches for an Eddie Cane scumread from his troll posts. He also misrepresents Eddie. Me thinks he's not listening and I'm seeing a literal conf bias. Ultimately, still NAI. It doesn't help that Eddie Cane is aggressive to him. That won't change his mind.
#374 Robb becomes LAMIST here. But I don't know what that means in relation to his meta.

Robb vs Eddie is NAI.

#307 Throws me off about my read on TChill. My initial analysis on the slots is scumchill + scumpercy/townpercy. Seeing it now, I think it's NAI because it could be anything but I have a feeling this is noteworthy for future flips. But my read that he lacks paranoia about Percy/Eddie still stands because even if he admits that Eddie misrepresentent him in #309, nothing came out of it.
#330 I think when people are talking about their metas like this, it's more often than not because they're trying to play to their meta.
#337 TChill continues the trend of no paranoia and deflection.
#340 Tchill acknowledges Eddie's attempt to a towncred. Still, nothing of it.

#316 Korts admits the WIFOM comment is NAI and it's consistent since he has petered out on his pursuit on me. Suddenly, #64, #66, #67 feels like genuine scumhunting since it can be established in the rest of the thread that Korts is an endearing (with the highest of love) asshole. But regarding the post, it's NAI—I think both scum and town can make cases.

#320 Assemblerotws cannot be more scummy with pop in-pop out IIOAs.

#315 Ginngie vs Tchill is TvS or TvT but never SvS.
#334 Ginngie claims Day 3 Innocent Child. Confirmable. Okay. She can be town until D3, then. Won't spend time analyzing her if that can be confirmed.

#348 Massive makes assumptions just to justify his town read on Chill. That's bad.
#349 He double downs on his vote on Robb being condescending, changing the reason for that vote yet again. Inconsistency is bad.

#343 Sunlit Diamond abolves TChill of patently scummy behavior just because it could also be bad play. I can understand where that's coming from. What's not clear here for me is why he's voting Robb. Because while they can't be S+S, they can still be T+T. So his vote does not make sense at a logical level, especially since he didn't vote him because of his play. However, I can see this post coming from both town and scum so NAI.
#356 I can understand the scumread on me. I was lurking and I wasn't actively challenging my vote on TChill.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna, Ginngie by Day 3, TChill by Day 3 (if he vigs)
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Sunlit Diamond, Robb
Null: Everyone not in the list.
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum: TChill, Unconfirmed Ginngie, Eddie Cane
Scum: Assemble

[humaneatingmonkey]

TChill, since Vecna was a top wagon, I want you to imagine that the town mislynched him on D1 and the scum didn't choose to kill. Not hard to think about, eh? You should change your mind about not vigging tonight otherwise I will push for your lynch tomorrow.

[humaneatingmonkey]

@massive
"I dunno, looks like you wanted me to answer and then found it so OK."
Yes and I found more. I found that originally, you supplied a reason other than "condescending" when people was asking you about it, but later you change your mind and said what you said in post 349. Why didn't you just say that in the first place?

"Why do you think my reason for voting Kaboose was something that I should have considered NAI?"
I don't remember. Let me get back at you when I'm not sleepy.
---------------------
16-18 I wish I can finish this soon. Will anyone read this? I am so tired catching up, and I have one more game thread to catch up to. T_T

#382 This might be minute and stupid for me to notice, but Korts feels like a vulture circling around Robb and Eddie here. But it can also be town just wanting to sort Robb or to see his point. But still.

#386 and #389 is a flip-flop I can only see from town. Robb is in a dead end here with his anti-towniness. The opportunistic scum thing is to misread him and jump on him. This strengtens my townread on Sunlit.

#390 I think I forgot to answer this question by nancy:

"forgot to answer this earlier but you feel different too; not sure if you're aware of the difference or not but I wouldn't mind hearing about that"

I'm less intelligent here because I don't have all the information. I don't know who to incriminate, who to pocket, who to vote, etc. And it isn't just about looking town, it's also trying to figure out who's lying. It's easier for me to fuck up that way.

My read of Nancy as town won't go. Every time I arrive at her posts, it's always a mirror to what my notes look like. That's NAI in itself but it fortifies my read on her.

@397 Yes yes sure another good point by Eddie against Robb. But it just doesn't make sense for Robb to be scum. At the same post, he lols at Sunlit Diamond. So much for "you need to work with town." At the same post, his answer to nancy about me being LAMIST is BULLCRAP. I don't see how "posts like" (to misrepresent that there are many) 56, 60, 77 can be LAMIST and his analysis is also BULLCRAP.

His spiel about how he have no choice but to vote him, I can't see to be coming from town. If he is town, I think Eddie Cane is OMGUS-ing hard on Robb because he can't consider the angle that Robb is coming from a town perspective. That and also he's admitted to only see Robb being town if he TRs him. I'm guessing that the scum motivation here is to invalidate Robb's argument, but that can go both alignments. I admit, I haven't figured out a strong scum motivation for Eddie to engage Robb at a 1v1 because Robb is not an easy mislynch. I don't really like how he creates read based on pre-flip associations on Robb when his Robb push is resting on shaky ground.

I was wrong to say that their feud was NAI. It's not SvS for sure. It's TvS or TvT.

#402 I can see how Grendel can look at Robb vs Eddie as TvT, and how Sunlit Diamond fits there. I am saying this as a comment, not a read.

I'm stopping at #408 because I'm sleepy.

Taking Ginngie and TChill out because they're confirmable—so if they lied, they're auto-lynches. I won't waste my time analyzing them when it's so easy to sort them, and I won't go as far as to read people based on their pre-flip associations. And also I want to speed things up a bit catching up. Although I HIGHLY DOUBT TChill's claim because I don't believe he didn't catch on that he needed to vig someone. I think he just claimed a role he can't confirm because he isn't that role.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown: Sunlit Diamond
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[humaneatingmonkey]

@Robbnva

"it's literally the dumbest thing ever to fake claim vig on day 1. I see why people wanted to lynch you."

TChill didn't help himself here when he was one of the scummiest people D1 (so far in my catch up). Didn't also help when he didn't vig last night when it made most sense. Also, here at @498 TChill claims he knows who he's shooting already. Wonder what happened to that.I'm not saying lynch him now because I can still see that it's possible that he's a vig. I'm saying tomorrow, if there's no kill, we should lynch him.

Also, it's not the dumbest thing to fake claim vig as scum. I can see a strategy where that can work but let's talk about that when the day ends. There's no reason for me to coach a possible scumchill.

@Gamma Emerald
"I wouldn't say lynch Ginngie if he's not autoconfirmable but I won't object unless I end up townreading him"

It's literally grounds for lynching to fake claim an D3 innocent child and then come D3, the mod does not confirm you as an innocent child. What are you talking about?

------------

Okay let's continue. 17-22

@419
I'm wrong about this. It's genuine frustration from Robb. I missed how he got that feeling from a dead thread—not here. I could see how people read my reaction to it in #439 as scum opportunism.

@438
Monkey's Korts read here is a surface level townread by someone who has not been really engaged to the game. He made this decision based on Korts' effort in making his posts and his aggressive behavior. I think those are NAI now.

@427
Vecna's triangle isn't something that makes sense logically for me. For example, if I eliminate myself and TChill (should we be both town and TChill is telling the truth), I don't see how that makes Korts scum (even if I scumread him thus far). Vecna misses the perspective that the interaction could be TvT.

@467
This confirms that Eddie Cane was in it only to destablize Robb's stance to the whole majority. He blames the majority for not telling him it regular occurence when I recall that he was told of it. However: "right now id say I have robb 60/40 town and 80/20 odds on him replying this saying I'm still scum or not replying." This makes me think that it's more scum-motivated because this looks like a gag order to Robb. In that context, the sudden change of stance looks as if it's a means to pocket someone. Also, this moves makes most sense as scum because even after that 1v1, no one was looking at Robb as scum.

"considering I'm voting sd without any reasoning given I'm curios how this'll go." this looks bad.

@486
Not liking how Korts equate being able to agree with as a towntell. And also vice verse. He equates being unable to agree with (or people scumreading him) as scumtell. But that's NAI.

@491
TChill's claim makes kind of sense because everyone wanted to lynch him.

It's hard to get anything alignment indicative up to Page 22. And also a bulk of the content were Vecna, Ginngie, TChill—people I said I wouldn't touch.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown: Sunlit Diamond
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[humaneatingmonkey]

@Massive

"#119 Massive votes Kaboose for something I think is NAI. It establishes that massive votes based on bad plays rather than alignment-indicative things—which is NAI. But it doesn't excuse the other stuff."

You vote on massive was as follows:

"I've already said I was content with 42-44, AND I've already said why I voted Robb, so I assume you'll get to it since you appear to be catching up on oh 4 pages one post at a time. And who said I needed to make a valid case? And who said being condescending is alignment-indicative?

Huh, nope, you didn't follow up your own questions with the answers, just left it to look like I didn't answer them already, and then made a scumread based off of it."

These were the questions by Kaboose:
"Why do you think being condescending is alignment indicative? How is this a valid case to make? This was your third post in the game and third different vote. Did you have a reason to quit liking the Perse wagon for this?"

These questions were NAI. Anyone could have made these questions because you have failed to supply your explanations to each item. It's reasonable to ask about it.

You claim that you voted for him because he asked these questions just to ask questions. How is that a valid scumread? And you can't say that "it's because he was just asking questions that doesn't influence his reads" because your vote post was your first reply to him. He couldn't have made any progress with that before you made your conclusion about it.

To answer your questions: I think it's BS to vote someone because they're condescending and I don't like that you did it. I think it's fair to ask why you think it's a valid case to make because it's not. I think you were sketchy in dropping the Percy wagon for 42-44 when it was nothing to move an inch for.
-----------
@Ginngie
Wiki. The mod will confirm you as an innocent child by Day 3, right? If he didn't, you lied about your role. I'd want to see you hang for that.
====

@mod

Can we have a post count count? I've been making a lot of posts.

[humaneatingmonkey]

23-25

#555
I can understand if anyone would see Vecna's claim as bullshit considering the circumstances around it.
#557
Vecna assumes too much. No wonder he would have been nearly lynched. But he makes sense when he argues that Korts read list where he townreads people who didn't warrant much townread was suspect and possibly scum-motivated pocketing. But all the pre-flip associations and teamconnection he was visualizing were flawed.

#579
It made sense for Eddie to call Dark Horse's 474 post as bad, but I don't get how to warrants scum points.
He also reads SD's 482 as bad but it's ironic because the way Eddie read it was bad too. I think SD was right in the assessment that Eddie is a shit-stirrer. But not sure how it's a scum lean. I think Eddie is a pattern OMGUS-er.
I don't know how he would have had town-read Vecna independent of his claim because Vecna was scummy. He town-reads him here because he agrees with Vecna, but it's my opinion that Vecna's votes were based on shaky logic.
I didn't get why his response to 487 was "it doesn't really matter" because Eddie is the slot to make Grendel's support alignment-indicative.
I didn't also get why he sees 488 as "eew" because it was a valid question to ask by Vecna.
I understand where he's coming from in his reaction to 503, 506, and 512.
I don't understand why he would have voted Ginngie at 524 for his reason, and definitely not when he all had the hots for Korts. I don't see how that was "gross" at all from Ginngie.
Eddie
#600
This is the weakest in that wagon. Eddie goes from townreading Vecna to an unexplained vote wanting a full claim. He didn't make the effort to challenge his idea, he just went straight to it. #617
After getting his fullclaim, even tho he expresses his doubts about it, Eddie then votes me. I think Eddie's behavior around Vecna's claim is scum-motivated.

#583
Nancy rebuffing Vecna's claim openly does not make sense as scum. That town read cannot be more higher.

#591
Sunlit Diamond's Vecna vote was the second weakest in that wagon. Being "explain-y" doesn't make you scum. He didn't elaborate on that "LAMIST" thing. And he piggybacks nancy. And also, he signs off his vote with a wiggle room for backpedal later. This is a bad post.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Lock Town: Nancy
Town:
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb, Sunlit Diamond
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, I caught that there were 6 people who asked for an extension. Can I get a massclaim of who asked for an extension and who didn't? Especially those outside of Assembler's wagon. I think that's in order.

I asked for an extension because I haven't caught up with the game and I was a leading wagon and the other wagon was someone I eventually believed the claim for.

26-28

#628 #636
Grendel defending Vecna's claim in a situation where wagonning him is the best strategy for scum can only come from a town place. Town points.
#639
Grendel's vote on me is something that I can understand. But it's too much assumption for example, "blame evasion", my friendliness. Which is I consider NAI. But I understand the stance about my Robb scumread about his AtE and my lurking which is generally scummy.

#631
This is a fair counterpoint by Sunlit Diamond on experience vs frustration.

#629
Flip-floppy Eddie Cane. I don't buy that "too low on time" spiel here considering he was here for the duration of the day and he had read.
#633 #645
I don't really get why Eddie would vote me.
But #662 from Eddie makes a fair point in light of recent events about how Sunlit was acting with Vecna and my wagon.
#665
His justification for the vote seems legit.
I stand by the fact that Eddie noticing scum not voting for an extension to be highly scummy. It's sorta feels like something only scum would notice.
He also says lynching assemble gives us 0 info which is wrong. Assemble's flip is the best info we will get from the slot apart from a replacement because him playing won't give us anything.
He makes a fair point about stalling, but not buddying. I don't see anything wrong with buddying with your top town read.
#671
He washes his hands about the whole "I didn't ask you to claim" when he was the one who pushed me so:

"and no, asking nancy is not the correct way. that's called buddying and stalling. you have no idea if shell be on in the next 12 hours, you expect us to analyze your claim in whatever time period we have left after she tells you to claim, and you expect us to build another wagon in said time period? people on this site aren't active enough for that, not even close."

#686 #688
Eddie's frustration feels fake for me so this frustration could also come from scum. The aggressiveness is off.

#678
RE: white-knighting/pocketing. I think Grendel is clear for that, but Eddie Cane is suspicious.

#679 #680
I can get behind why Korts think Vecna is still the right lynch. So are these #681 TChill #682 Ginngie

#663
I'm stupid for saying Grendel's reasons for scumreading me is bad.
#685
This is objectively scummy but my defense was that I have no idea what the gamestate looks like and I'm just OMGUS-ing.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb, Sunlit Diamond
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[humaneatingmonkey]

Robb, what do you think about Eddie's #665? I'm still not done catching up so I'm still not confident to join you in the Eddie wagon.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Ahem?

@nancy
@Ginngie
@Dark Horse
@Eddie Cane
@Tchill13
@Korts
@Grendel
@AssemblerotwsD
@massive

Can you guys tell me if you've asked for an extension or not?

[humaneatingmonkey]

No please analyze his post reasons he said in #665. A bulk of your reasons was that he had no reason. That's what he would refer that to you when he replies to you.

And "this is pointless. Scum are going to lie.". NOT POINTLESS for EXACTLY the reason you said. You'd want to see who have the more believable claim. There are only 6 people who asked for an extension. If 8 people claim to have asked for extension, it will at least limit our search into finding scum in that area.

And I don't think you have been reading my catch up posts. I am disappointed I really made a lot of effort in those posts.

[humaneatingmonkey]

29-333

#727
RE: Dark Horse
I claimed because I was a counterwagon that was gaining fast speed in my limited perspective when I wasn't caught up. I can now see how that's stupid. But it's not accurate to say that it was just myself that caused me to claim. There was a real pressure on my part to not get lynched.
Also RE: doubting Vecna being scum. It was a real concern based on the fact that we haven't gotten our extension.
The argument against Korts was fair considering he didn't subject me to the same lens of paranoia with Vecna. But I think I read a future post where it was explained properly how I'm not subject to the same lense anyway.

#748
I don't see how Sunlit thought TChill was townier than Robb independent of his claim.
====
Final Day 1 reads:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb, Sunlit Diamond
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane
====
31-33

#773
Dark Horse naked votes me without analysis on what happened to the Vecna flip. I don't see why the Vecna flip didn't warrant reevaluation.
#781 makes sense which neutralizes TChill's #780 Assemblr vote.
I agree with #802 Tchill's #800 is not a good vote regardless of what Robb conf-bias says in #801.

#779 #812
TChill holds some wrong conceptions about how the Vecna flip plays out. But I can agree to disagree.
HOWEVER
There's scummy inconsistency with TChill about how he handles Assemble. He votes him in #780 convinced that he's probably scum, BUT he didn't vig him? This places my reasonable doubt that TChill might be lying about that Vig claim. I think later he defends his lack of kill by saying he didn't believe Assemble to be scum?

If TChill does not kill Night 2, please lynch him.

#809
This is a post that I can understand from Korts.

#813
Monkey boy's not doing town good by not reading.

#818
I do not understand Assemble here because he made sense here. So it's probably not an S+S interaction for TChill and Assemble.

#820
I don't understand Sunlit thinking that it's strange to scumread TChill based on no vigshots. Wasn't the point in having him survive to confirm his role? The lack of paranoia is suspect.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb,
Null: Grendel, Sunlit Diamond
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[humaneatingmonkey]

#840
I'll try to reply to Dark Horse's case.

OMGUS:
Your argument is fair. However, you need to account my level of engagement to the thread. When Korts was grilling me early game, I still had a large grasp of the gamestate and I'm reasonably confident with what I think about players. By the time that I was OMGUS-ing hard, I had low information. Basically someone with a knife at the dark with hands touching me all-over. Do you imagine the image? That's what the paranoia looked like that's why I was down to OMGUS.

Targetting lynchbait:
I think you're putting an overarching narrative to my complex situation. But that's okay because that's NAI and reasonable. When I was posting past the post I declared that I am busy at work, I was just posting to avoid being replaced. So my play became analyzing the popular wagons and seeing if it was something I can get behind. I understand your concern that I have been asking a lot of questions that doesn’t seem content with actually following through and gamesolve. But "a lot of questions" is a misrepresentation of it. And I have been less intent to gamesolve because I was avoiding mafiascum around that time.

Also, if you think targetting lynchbait is a scumtell, you should look at yourself.

Vecna Flip-flop:
The sudden townread of Vecna is a genuine move. I also genuinely believed that if we have had a deadline extension, it would have been announced already. The thought came from Eddie Cane dropping that—that was his original thought. So your "Either he was scum who figured that since him or none of his scumbuds had passed for a deadline extension" actually apply to Eddie.

"he figured it woudn’t be a vecna lynch" the Vecna lynch was gonna happen more likely that it was not before I declared that I did not want to lynch Vecna. You should read that part again.

Weird interactions:
I can see where this is coming from, but you're wrong. You said this:

"He claims that he was “more interested in what others have to say” but he doesn’t really follow up anywhere else. He later answers some questions and goes “this is almost making me rethink my read on you,”but once again korts doesn’t follow up on it."

Which I think is a fair point that is worth considering. But consider another angle where I'm town.
------
Page 34

#831
THIS is the assemble defense I was talking about.
#830
TChill dismisses attempts at a real conversation with this reply. I hate it when people does that to me. Still not an analysis, just a comment. The only confirmation I need is the Night 2 kill.

#834
Eddie making sense. But I can't reevaluate my relationship read because Mafia threads exist and they could have coordinated bussing by now.

#837
I understand Sunlit's stance that it may just be bad play by TChill. Sure, it's less probably. But I understand it.

#839
I can understand Dark Horse's stance on Vecna-Korts.
#840
I think Dark Horse failed to see that Percy's RVS post was more than about the joke. I don't agree with his assessment. I agree that there was a major tone conflict that escalated the argument but you should look at the angle that it's Eddie scum vs Town Robb because Eddie is independently scummy outside of the Robb vs Eddie argument.

#842
Yes I was wrong to say that it was only character. I'm sorry about that. I think I already aggressed this. You can reevaluate me based on my defense.

#843
"I think that Moneky himself realizes that it was a crap reason to scum read me because he has barely mentioned me coming into today. " I haven't realized it yet when I said it. It was just a stab in the dark. I have barely mentioned you because I haven't even caught up. But yes, it's a crap reason.
I disagree with saying that the deadline extension is not an objective assessment. What are the probability that we could have gotten an extension if Vecna was scum? Higher than not. The six votes for extension confirms my theory. You should reconsider that thought.
"The day was almost over, and there was zero set up reading between the lines." I had full believe that my wagon will take off if I did not claim because I was thinking that it was a scum wagon.


Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb,
Null: Grendel, Sunlit Diamond
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[humaneatingmonkey]

35-37

#853
This is the exact kind of WIFOM from TChill that makes me wary of the argumentp resent in #837.
TChill NEEDS to flip or confirm by killing.

#854
I don't know how to read this one by Korts.
#858
Korts is consistent in his read on me when the right gameplay for scum is to cast shade on me is town points. But might also be pocketing. But I don't see the value in pocketing me at that point of time. Could it be distancing for when I flip town? I'm gonna file this under NAI.
#893
Korts' analysis on Robb (or everyone for that matter) feels unfair and hyperbolic. It feels villanous.
"come on - how the fuck do you read "we must have blood" as a real reason?" there's a false dichtonomy that it's a joke reason-real reason. My gripe was that it looked like a vote being catious not to draw attention by giving a justification (because didnt vote). It's never because "real reason, not a joke reason", which I think you have misrepresented for far too long.

#864
I was not avoiding you. I was avoiding mafiascum as a whole.

#887 - #892
I standby Gamma Emerald arriving with the intent to understand the game than have an agenda, but the national consensus says it's NAI so I won't argue with that. Instead, I'm gonna evaluate him with his play.
I think Gamma is misrepresenting Korts in his page 3 analysis. He had no way to know or think that I'm an easy target at that point.
Gamma reads Grendelslot as town simply because he agrees with him. Pet peeve.
Actually, Gamma's reads were unsatisfactory still becaue it didn't go into the details of why things are good or bad or okay. Some of it was even irrelevant to the gamestate now.
Gamma, can you elaborate on why you townread me? Because I don't think I have been playing as an obvtown this game so you dimissing me as town without paranoia is suspicious.
#910
Gamma, why were you reading Vecna's as leantown?
#916
Gamma has a good catch about massive's #778. But since nancy is already town by consensus, any read that glorifies her makes me feel like it's either genuine or seeking towncred. So I don't think that will make me bump massive up. However, Gamma seeing this from massive makes me put on some towncred on him.
Gamma, what do you think about #823 now that I've pointed out that TChill voted him as soon as the Day 2 starts? Do you smell inconsistency?

#909
This confirms what we already know about Robbnva. He's locked in a confbias town or determined scum. Look at that. That's not a reason to scumread Eddie. It was a legitimate condition by Eddie.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb, Gamma Emerald
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[humaneatingmonkey]

OH MY GOD I'VE FINALLY PAID ALL MY DEBTS. TIME TO LURK FOR ANOTHER 2 WEEKS AGAIN!

38-44

#929
I'll entertain you, nancy. What do you think of my thoughts and reads thus far?

#930
I stand by with what my reads were, Korts. I think "terribly contrived" is such a limited thing to see it. Which is NAI for you.
#932
I could understand why that might feel deflection. It mostly was. I thought your argument was NAI and I was trying you to join a wagon I care about instead of seeing the argument you made take off because it's bullcrap and you know it.
Still the same level of villainous assertion with no intent to sort from Korts. Zealous town or scum? Well he hasn't lied, just overly hyperbolic so it could still be NAI.

#934 #936 #938
Robb is starting to be stupid. He's now in the dangerous line between scummy and NAI territory. That hardheadedness feels too anti-town to be town now.
#949
Eddie hasn't been trolling for a while now, just playing bad if hes town.
#955
Feels like a genuine frustrated town with a bad playstyle.
#961
On the other hand, using the same Eddie is a troll argument makes me feel like it's just a personal beef. What makes you so sure that you've caught the actual scum with the interaction you had with them so far?
#971
But your unwillingness to cooperate with others makes you the one who's not progressing the game.
#1000
"Nothing but troll" is a misrepresentation of Eddie's behavior that you should avoid doing, Robb. Robb, compile a more objective and fair analysis of Eddie.
#1033
Critizing his predecessor wasn't what I expected for him to do. I just wanted him to read you with the understanding that Percy was indeed scummy and maybe you had a reason to act like a charging bull.

#970
Dark Horse, what's your read on Eddie?

#974
Gamma, I can see what you mean, but do you also mean that you don't think Eddie can be a leading wagon?
#989
Why were you open to lynch Eddie, a townread, just to pocket Robb into lynching Korts? That's bad. That's very bad.
#999
What was the reason for preventing someone from reading someone in depth? Wouldn't that benefit town? Still bad.
#1023
"I'm just trying to guide massive on his read on him." Why did you feel the need to do that, Gamma?

#993
"Because operating under the premise that town wouldn't lie is utterly obtuse."
Grendel, why do you assume that it's Robb's reason for tunnelling Eddie?

Penultimate catch-up reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb,
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts, Gamma Emerald
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

One thing left: VCA Analysis.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay after being discouraged from VCA by a guy with initials "R" and "C" in the sitechat, I decided not to do painstaking VCA.

I'm gonna VOTE: Assemblerotws, or his replacement..
Ginngie better be a D3 innocent child or I'll lynch her.
Since my analysis is that there's only one or no scum between Assemble and Tchill, TChill killing Assemble doesn't make the best town strategy. However, according to my analysis, scum!Percy/Eddie + scum!TChill is probable. So it's better for TChill to confirm his Vigilante claim by killing Eddie Cane tonight. Or -anyone- that isn't Ginngie or me. Anyway, he believes Eddie Cane is the best lynch today anyway.
TChill better confirm his role or I lynch him tomorrow.

If we lynch Eddie today and vig Assemble tonight, it yields the same results and I'm okay with that. But I'll be more comfortable with TChill volunteering to vig Eddie than TChill volunteering to vig Assemble.

@Korts, what do you think of Ginngie?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Actually, I chose poorly. There's already a wagon on Eddie. Lynch Eddie, vig Assemble. VOTE: Eddie Cane, or his replacement

[humaneatingmonkey]

Be a D3 innocent child or else.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I had you as scum but didn't bother to analyze past the point I basically said I'll just wait for you to pop for convenience. But skimming through your posts, you look as if you've been doing things that makes most sense as town. I probably have you between Null and Nulltown.

However, if you took your time to read my catch-up posts, the Eddie Cane and Assemble ISO is whack.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Good to see you again Vedith. Why is your slot not scum? Any insights?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Oof.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't see why that wouldn't be a valid scumread, that's absolutely something scum do -- ask questions without caring what the answers are, or making it obvious that the answers don't matter to them.

But here, you misrepresented But you know what's weird, is that I was 200% confident when you took up this line that he had voted for me without letting me answer this, and so I went back to quote it and ... it's not as offensive as I thought at first read-through. Yes, he's building off of (at best) "assumed answers" to the questions he asked without actually waiting for the answer, and making an argument based on associatives to justify his scumread equally based on whether the associative is town or scum, and ... well no now that I look at it again it was pretty bad all around. You skim past it in your catchup, can you review this and give me your opinion?

How am I misrepresenting anything? My callout for your actions had cause—as you admit. And also, that's not how I read it. They were reasonable questions. Your reaction to it was overly aggressive and OMGUS-y. Just like now, you were assuming malicious intent where there was no reason to infer that at all. If you're scumreading what he did, you should scumread yourself for building off assumed intention for reasonable questions just to justify your OMGUS scumread to him.

Maybe you weren't an easy target but you were certainly not anyone worth pushing at that point.

Who would you have thought was someone worth pushing at that point if you had been Korts? Where would you get that information from?

That's wrong, I believe Grendel's play here comes from his towngame.

Can you please explain how that may be the case?

Well yeah some might be but I wanted to show my thought process as I was reading.

Still didn't accomplish your goal because I had no idea how your brain decided which is good, bad, okay.

Basically your beginning play and your claim are what make it solid.

Can you explain this so I know you're just not pocketing me?

Wait can you explain what you mean here?

Massive giving nancy towncred is obvious so it's NAI. But you giving Massive towncred for giving nancy towncred gives you towncred. Or at the very least, it establishes S+S or T+T behavior—but I've only thought about that now.

Not really, the vote was just "let's finish what we started" in my eyes.

What motivation do you think TChill has for "finishing what we started" when he could have done that as a Vigilante last night?

I was trying to ensure that I had someone pushing with me the next day, as well as carrying the torch if I got nightkilled.

What made you think that you were getting nightkilled any time soon? There are three PR claimers and one unanimous decision townread. I don't see that motivation genuinely coming from you unless you're bullshitting me right now.

Because I felt massive wasn't really giving him a fair shake.

How would you infer that?

To answer your question first, monkey, I think Ginggie is fucking around, posting a lot but investing little effort, and I really don't think his D3 IC claim makes any sort of sense (although who am I to know what kind of roles can be found floating around these days). At the very least, the claim is verifiable simply by waiting until tomorrow; one thought I had was that he is a Survivor-type deal, or like a Traitor that joins the mafia after D3 maybe? We'll see.

What motivation do you think a survivor role has by not just claiming survivor, instead attracting the crosshairs of both scum and town by lying?

What motivation do you think a traitor-scum role would have by fake claiming a mod-verifable role?

This just makes me feel like you're SvS trying to distance from each other or SvT (scumKorts) trying to cast shade to chip away Ginngie's towncred.

Robb, I think you need to seek therapy instead of channeling your frustration into mafia, because you're ruining the game for everyone else.

I think you need to seek healthy relationships so that you might learn how not to be toxic as a person.

ScumKorts can possibly be partners with Eddie because if Eddie was town, ScumKorts would have pocketed Robb into further mislynching a TownEddie.

I still think Dark Horse is making the most sense out of anyone;

Which parts? You saying that you don't have any solid argument to disprove his case on you is suspect because it feels like you're thikning of a way to lie or demean your way out of it. Don't you think that if you had been town, just an explanation of what your actions were will suffice?

nancy's trying to sort but is obviously disengaged, which I can understand with the game having been how it has

I think nancy has been reasonably fine in her performance. Have you declared a read on nancy yet?

massive is is proactive;

Is proactive AI? Have you declared a read on massive yet?

I have to say I liked Gamma's catch-up.

Which parts?

I know he just replaced out, but come on.

Come on what?

plus that attack on Robb was just gross.

Do you think that was alignment-indicative?

Although I do like the emerald replacing diamond note as a "haha cool thing" moment.

Sarcastic or no?

I think a lot of that post is pocketing btw,

look at how many townreads he has.

I can understand how you could mistake his non-committed statements as townreads. I made the same mistake at a first skim. I agree that it's pocketing tho. It's the condescending "you're good until I say so" that reminds me of Rick from Rick and Morty when he's manipulating someone. Classic abusive personality.

Town!Rob could very well have caught scum with their pants down at the start of the game, but I'm not convinced that is the case here.

What makes you think that it wasn't the case?

Does Monkey remind you of my play in newbi 1734? Maybe even a tad?

I'm just gonna address this line of logic from this post. Acknowledge that I've read your build up.

When has it been the proper way to read someone based on someone else's (or yours) meta? If you're grasping straws here, better grasp the right straws because at least you were going somewhere in your previous cases against me. Here, you just look like you're confbiasing hard. If you tell me this isn't at least influenced by confbias, you're either scum digging my grave or delusional town. Or I'm not seeing an angle here that your reply might shine light on.

CATCH-UP EDIT: Okay thanks for retracting but why did you pursue that line of thought in the first place.

The first player to receive heavy pressure, (and wagoned to L-2/1), is statistically more likely to be town.

So this is how the wiki-definition of IIOA looks like in-play. Huh. Anyway, I don't agree with it and you using it as an argument is suspect.

I also think that Eddies flippant interactions that occuasrred when he subbed in, and were maintained quite a while, are more likely to come from town then not.

What did you think was the optimal scum play going in? Mine's attack the attacker.

I recall that he was present to help prevent a no lynch a the EoD1. Which was town regardless what Assemble would have flipped there.

Based on this, do you agree that people there are more likely to be town that not?

I feel like this is town-Gamma.

What makes you think that?

it's based on how Persephone talked about being scumread feeling better than being called incompetent. I highly doubt they would hae had such an organic perspective such as that as scum.

Good point. See, when you tell us why exactly, you'll get less dirty looks.

As for voting Eddie I just got fed up and felt that would help in some way, hopefully break Robb out of his tunnel and get him looking through a broader scope.

So you townread Robb more than Eddie? Because you're willing to appease Robb by lynching Eddie so that you can get him to sheep you.

Honestly Eddie's behavior could be policy lynch worthy if you look at it from a certain angle.

What angle was this?

Then he switches to Robb because essentially he feels Robb is playing up the read which makes sense as well, since scum have to change the consideration on certain points to swing reads in their favor (based on mastina's teachings).

I'm too lazy to scroll back to that point but I remember siding with Robb on that one and voting Percy. Are you wrong or am I wrong?

I will be off vla tonight. Please send me any recommendations asap.

My recommendation is to catch-up asap so you can begin justifying that scumread on me without looking too much of a sheep i guess.

Also while Monkey mentioned it on the onset, encouraging a 1v1 between two emotionally charged players is bad mojo for town morale.

I don't know how that could be alignment-indicative? Also, it's not as if it was a deliberate nuclear strike on my part because I didn't know how "emotionally-charged" Percy and Robb can get. Also, I thought it was the best way to get us out of RVS. Like you said, it wasn't apparent that it was the case and it's not like I'm Bran Stark.

her lack of playfulness/enthusiasm is probably town

In my scumgame where she was town, she was playful and enthusiastic. That's why I was scumreading her early on—it was contrary to what I observed her towngame was. Since she said she was deliberately changing her playstyle, I gave her the benefit of the doubt. Now, her play makes much more sense as town than scum.

Can you answer it?

I'll answer it. Scum was online and didn't want to lynch their buddy. On the other hand, they might have thought that not lynching you would cast that exact same suspicion and keep the town dark.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I applaud the effort but those walls are hard to read. I don't understand why we can't choose a lynch st this point yet.

Just ctrl+f "Chill" on my ISO and then scroll down towards my final reads list. If you want to know how those reads got to be, you can just choose to read my progress. I'm also looking forward to your replies to them. Also, I've been pining to lynch Assemble and Eddie but both got replaced. So now, I have to wait for Game and Titus to get back to the game before I make further actions. Right now, I'm reacting to everything.


Gamma I hope you're not having a stroke because you've been terribly inconsistent so far.

He was concerned about giving mafia a kill. Did you not see him say that?

Yes, but why would TChill have that concern if the wagon was at L-1 AND he was convinced that Assemble was scum?

Robb had actually been putting in the work to solve the game.

I thought he was confbiasing?!

That he hasn't actually helped town in the slightest. He was just sitting there and looking cute.

I'll give you a moment to review his ISO/posts for a second. Do you really think this about him?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay. I thought I had a much lower post count (around 20) so I was trying to be conservative. But since there's 2 days remaining, I'm gonna go ahead and be liberal.

Spoiler: RE:Gamma

I can't tell what TChill was thinking, ask him I guess. I've just been inferring based on what I've seen from his posts.

But now that you've seen my argument against it, what do you think about it?

====

Spoiler: RE:Massive

Did you answer my question there at the end?

I did. I just told you that I thought they were reasonable question and your reaction to it wasn't. I'm trying to decide now if it was OMGUS-town or OMGUS-scum.

====

Spoiler: RE:Grendel

Questions one didn't need to be asked. Two, and three, are scummy bad and wouldn't help him get a read on me. Four is non-AI info, the last two pass as legitimate points with questions. Fluff ratio of 3:1.

Maybe my impression that Monkey is overcompensating by big posting wasn't incorrect. I could look at his over questions I guess. I skimmed until I saw he asked me things.

That's not for you to decide. They ARE helping me get a read on you. That's very arrogant for you to assume they weren't. They were my questions. I'm using them to determine if there's basis in your reads and spot for inconsistencies. You are reasonable questions, and you devaluing them by snide remarks like this is suspect.

"Fluff ratio" You're full of crap. Fluffposting could only be scummy if it were just fluffposting. You just decided they were fluff.

And thank you captain obvious. Of course I was compensating. Compensating for lost time and attention. Not sure by "overcompensating" as that's just your arrogant assumption.

Now to your questions.

I think its really odd that you'd prep this point by saying that you've gone out of your way to meta me, then accuse me of doing something I do typically.

Fake news. Nowhere did I say I did a meta on you.

That doesn't even qualify as IIOA? What?

It does. It doesn't really give us anything about how Eddie's play was just that you think that he's objectively town based on this. It's a useless reason to townread him.

This and the "grasping at strews" are clearly attempts at deriding my credibility as a player.

Projection. That's what you've been doing with my questions calling them fluff when they were reasonable. And in that context, they wouldn't be scummy even if they were "fluff" because I have been giving my input in this game fairly. Meanwhile metaanalyzing ME by using YOUR OWN meta is grasping for straws.

Why wouldn't scum want town drama? It distracts town, wastes time, and town ignorance can make adding fuel to the fire come at low risk. Even more so when its that early in the game.

Well "creating town drama" is a hyperbolic malicious spin to "creating discussion at D1 RVS". You could consider where that was in the game before throwing alignment points in it. And then later "creating town drama" is a hyperbolic malicious spin to "engaging with the thread for reads" so I really think that "creating town drama" is an arbitrary read that is susceptible to conf!bias.

However, I agree with you about this:

Partipate in a way that is going to be perceived as conventionally town like for the site meta. Garner as much town cred as possible D1. Lurk until required to do town looking things again.

I have only finished two other town games since joining this site. In one game, I have caught scum because they were ramming up players with bad inconsistent logic and aggressive pushes. Another game, the scum flew right past me because I don't have enough to scumread them by. Or they have been too towny that I've townlocked them.

If you're gonna scumread me on this based on my D1 play, I'm gonna understand this. However, let me tell you that I have seriously been busy that's why I went off the map. If you can take a minute to get out of my tunnel, who would you have scumread based on your presumed optimal D1 scum strategy?

====

Spoiler: RE:nancy

If you could ask any more specific questions that would probably be pretty helpful though.

Okay I understand you. I checked back my ISO and it was horrible. Maybe it's because I was pressed for time.

I think you're missing Tchill/Gin in your readslist?

Midway when I read their claims, I realized they are confirmable. Therefore, won't waste me time reading them. Instead, if Ginngie doesn't turn out to be an innocent child Day 3, she's scum. If TChill doesn't kill someone on Night 2, he's scum. That's just the end of it for me. Today, I'm ignoring them.

By the looks of it you're not really having any strong feelings about a lot of players either right now so maybe we can help each other get more engaged in the game and pull things out of just null? Talk to me about your Gamma read?

Okay I agree. Let's pull people out of null.

Initially, I thought Gamma is obvtown for the way he came in the thread. However, I just had my ass handed to a recently-finished game by townlocking to someone who did just that. Upon reading, Gamma has been inconsistent and he has some reads that I still don't understand how he snapped into. Also, that part where he was willing to lynch Eddie for Robb's sheep was pretty suspicious because I didn't see it as a town-solution to the Robb-Eddie dillemma. Especially when he was townreading both. He explains that he was assuming that the conflict would put us in another no-lynch situation, but I didn't think it was likely anymore because I and Assemble was a strong lynch. And also, I don't think he was townreading me for the right reasons so I think it may be pocketing. Right now, I have already pulled him into leanscum hence the attention.

====

Spoiler: RE:Dark Horse

Monkey I feel like I might've missed where you said this but what are your reason for scumreading eddie that don't involve robb?

My read on Eddie is not conditional to Robb. On the contrary, if you evaluate Eddie in relation to Robb—especially in light of the more recent events—Eddie looks good. However, the scumreads still stand. Re-listing for your convenience:

Eddie Cane's entrance is suspect. Instead admitting to Percy's obviously scummy play, he doubles down. This is a play that does not make sense as town.
#286-#292 makes little sense.
#293 His read on Robb is not something I can agree to disagree. tunneling is not scum. I don't get too how he would have read ginngie as townlean. "They're too lamisty if ya know what I mean" takes shortcuts instead of actually demonstrating what he means.

#305
Eddie makes a misrepresenting statement about TChill's play to prove a point that TChill is town. It's consistent with the Percy-TChill S+S relationship.

#342
Eddie backtracks after being called out. He also starts to acknowledge Percy's scumminess. And somehow this does not absolve Robb of anything. Says he has no choice but to vote him but that's not true. He presents an interesting case against TChill. He townleans assemble—but why?

#467
This confirms that Eddie Cane was in it only to destablize Robb's stance to the whole majority. He blames the majority for not telling him it regular occurence when I recall that he was told of it. However: "right now id say I have robb 60/40 town and 80/20 odds on him replying this saying I'm still scum or not replying." This makes me think that it's more scum-motivated because this looks like a gag order to Robb. In that context, the sudden change of stance looks as if it's a means to pocket someone. Also, this moves makes most sense as scum because even after that 1v1, no one was looking at Robb as scum.

#600
This is the weakest in that wagon. Eddie goes from townreading Vecna to an unexplained vote wanting a full claim. He didn't make the effort to challenge his idea, he just went straight to it. #617
After getting his fullclaim, even tho he expresses his doubts about it, Eddie then votes me. I think Eddie's behavior around Vecna's claim is scum-motivated.

#629
Flip-floppy Eddie Cane. I don't buy that "too low on time" spiel here considering he was here for the duration of the day and he had read.

#633 #645
I don't really get why Eddie would vote me.

#665
I stand by the fact that Eddie noticing scum not voting for an extension to be highly scummy. It's sorta feels like something only scum would notice.
He also says lynching assemble gives us 0 info which is wrong. Assemble's flip is the best info we will get from the slot apart from a replacement because him playing won't give us anything.
He makes a fair point about stalling, but not buddying. I don't see anything wrong with buddying with your top town read.

#671
He washes his hands about the whole "I didn't ask you to claim" when he was the one who pushed me so:

"and no, asking nancy is not the correct way. that's called buddying and stalling. you have no idea if shell be on in the next 12 hours, you expect us to analyze your claim in whatever time period we have left after she tells you to claim, and you expect us to build another wagon in said time period? people on this site aren't active enough for that, not even close."

#686 #688
Eddie's frustration feels fake for me so this frustration could also come from scum. The aggressiveness is off.

=====
Wow what's up with Math

Why are we still attempting to read Ginngie and TChill when they can easily be sorted D3? Let alone try and put a wagon on them.

[humaneatingmonkey]

nancy, shouldn't you be more suspicious and hostile to Math after that shit analysis on you (and everyone else, actually)? Why are you apologetic to him? It sounds like you've enjoyed the seat of high tow-cred for so long that it made you sensitive to shakeups/votes. And that's something that could make most sense if you're scum.

Wow. That's my first scumtell on you in the thread apart from metaanalysis.

Here's the game thread where I was defeated as town when I town-locked the ARBITRIO/Ataraxia slot. viewtopic.php?f=11&t=72636

That said, I'm still waiting for Assemble-Vedith slot. Can you guide me out of the Vedith slot if you think he is town?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Also, if anyone is having a hard time following my catch-up posts, just ctrl+f "name" on my ISO to see the evolution of my reads. I placed it by post count so you'll see it. I also made a point to consistently use proper nouns so i can ctrl+f on it myself. Sorry for the format. I was rushing to get it done because it was taking me too much time.

[humaneatingmonkey]

It was an elaborate ploy to get you to talk about dildos—and it worked!

Whether or not their analysis is good isn't really going to be how you get a read on Math here.

How would I read Math? I mean that's pretty much what I thought that's why I just wrote it off as weird and NAI and waited until there's more. That's why you're the one I read because it was your reaction that was AI. Because even if Math is your friend, I think since this is a game you'll allow yourself to become suspicious for things like that. Even if you didn't think it was particularly scummy, I expected that you would have furthered the discussion and not end it with an apology.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Lynches I'm down to lynch:
Titus (Assemble-slot), Game Replacement (Eddie-slot)

Lynches I'm only down to do if I really have to:
Gamma Emerald

Lynches I'm willing to be convinced of:
Drixx (Korts-slot), Massive

Anyone willing to lynch Game Replacement? Because Titus looks more like a slot TChill should just vig to confirm role. If Titus is more viable of a lynch, I highly implore TChill to vig Game Replacement.

TChill, you have to tell us who you're vigging so the scum can't no-kill, therefore implicating you for a lynch. That's highly unlikely but a viable strategy for scum.

By the way, can't emphasize this enough. If TChill doesn't vig anyone night 2, he's scum day 3. If Ginngie is anything but innocent child day 3 (or day-confirmable town), she's scum.

Oh and if nancy is Town and not just trying to manipulate me Titus and monkey are scum.

I don't see the relation. Guide me to why you think this is a true statement.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay admittedly, that "TChill should declare his kill" is terrible advice. I forgot the existence of mafia roleblockers. Towncred on Math for spotting that and not supporting that. TChill should not declare that kill. But he should still make that kill.

Monkey is scum because monkey says hey lynch Titus and then tries to talk out of lynching Titus tries to then piggyback onto nancy scum. And then furthermore doesn't have nancy in his willing to lynch list.

Okay that's not true. I'm not talking him out of lynching. After you finish reading, you'll see that I want either dead by D3 through VigKill and Lynch. Also, nancy's my best townread so why would I want to lynch her.

You did not answer my question tho. I want you to explain why monkey and Titus would be partners if nancy is town. That right there I think is the most ridiculous bullshit ever.

[humaneatingmonkey]

I'm willing to hammer but also I got out of bed and I want to address the suspicions regarding my slot.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Titus you need to claim. I'm just gonna go have breakfast.

[humaneatingmonkey]

And yes I did explain.
My explanation

Your #1195 only explains why I'm scum from #1194 and half of your reasons are wrong assumptions. That doesn't explain your #1190 statement where you made an if-then statement about how Titus and I could be scum if nancy is town. So, no. You didn't explain it. At best, you're illogical. At worst, you're misleading the town into ganking me.

I'm not deflecting pressure away from Titus, so stop that narrative.
I'm not trying to convince you nancy is bad so stop that narrative.
I AM pushing someone in particular. Game Replacement. Go read before being obnoxious, obnoxious-man.

It seems as if you haven't even read completely and you're overconfident in pushing your scumreads. No matter. At least, you're hitting Titus and I'm okay with that. But your annoying presence creates a narrative that the only real choices are Titus and I which creates leave for Game Replacement. Possible Scum+Scum relationship there.

No. I don't think it was. And even if it was natural doesn't make him Town. This an attempt to humanize scum. Emotions and "natural" aren't the way to read people. Scum can be natural and Town can be weird. It's about assessing the belief behind the posts.

Look at this bullcrap. "Scum can be natural and Town can be weird." Sure, town can be weird. But scum being natural? Doesn't that go against their gimmick of lying and therefore be unnatural?

Monkey's attack on nancy feels way too muhc like him following math's initial read and him trying to stir the pot between nancy and math. Lynch him already.

It's not stirring the pot. I was clearing that scumtell by asking nancy about it because last time I locked a town I got my ass handed by scum.

I concur that Monkey looks super opportunistic sliding in there and trying to be subtle about directing the lynch.

Directing the lynch? Nowhere did I say to lynch nancy and I'll probably defend against it when Titus, Game Replacement, and Gamma is unturned.

"sittingonthefencitis"

Another player who comes in without reading the game.

I really don't like how hard it was to move a wagon on humaneatingmonkey, especially in a game where there was already a no lynch and the deadline is so close.

Maybe after reading you'll learn that it's NOT hard to move a wagon on me. I'm ML bait after my inactivity streak. Titus wagon doesn't move "fast" either. A lot of people voting now wanted to vote this guy for a long time, even yesterday. And a lot of people in that wagon is D3 confirmable and an obvtown so I don't know why you would think that it's a scum effort. That's because maybe you are scum.

I can't believe NOBODY else thinks there is something wrong here.

Well, there's you. And there's people who have not said jack shit. That counts as dissent.

If I die tonight serve my revenge cold on monkey.

Look at MathBlade having an out of place assumption that he'll die tonight when there are a lot of claimed PRs. lmao

I mean... I think I made a pretty compelling case that there's literally NO reason to lynch Titus and in fact if I had to give a read on the slot I'd say it's slightly town because of the early posts which were on point and don't appear to be scum narrative bullshit.

Not compelling at all seeing as how you didn't even spend an effort to deconstruct half of the cases against him.

What you are calling "earnest desire for action" looks an awful lot like manipulative self preservation to me.

No shit. I obviously don't want to get lynched. I can say that I have an earnest desire to not get lynched as much as an earnest desire to understand the gamestate and pinpoint who the scum is.

What are these wrong assumptions and misrepresentations surrounding my statements? There is obviously a scum effort to lynch me today or set up my lynch. I'm not gonna stand by while that happens. I'm not gonna be an easy mislynch so scum's gotta have to kill me tonight if they want me out of the game.

I think the fast narrative MathBlade's pushed that it's either Titus or I limited the pool for lynch when there are better lynch candidates like Game Replacement. However, I'm not gonna be narcissistic and say I didn't have it coming. I believe now it's either Titus or me and it's 12 hours before deadline so I'm definitely not gonna wait and see if the tide turns on me within 12 hours so VOTE: Titus. Sorry not sorry.

[humaneatingmonkey]

"cognitive deficiency"
lmao just call me dumb instead of mincing with academic words

"Silence is not dissent. It's silence. You don't get to just assign motive and position to other people at your convenience. "
It's more likely that scum with a partner about to be lynched to be silent than to be defending. Silence can amount to dissent if you're looking for it.

"hammering without letting the player show up and claim is basically always a scum claim"
With the jailkeeper out, I'm 100% sure my role is more important than Titus so I'm not gonna risk a mislynch.

If you're gonna exclude me out of your games for that, I'm sorry for making you feel that way. But it's the smartest move I can think of in my situation.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Kaaaaay. Good luck. <3 <3