Micro 729: C-C9 Mafia | Game Over

[Papa Zito]

VOTE: Myko

I mean, clearly.

[Papa Zito]

Thanks for your support Realeo you're a pal.

[Papa Zito]

Pls to edify the masses why you think my good pal Realeo is a Bad Guy.

[Papa Zito]

It's his first post more than his second, I just wanted to see a bit more from edo before I voted.

What was wrong with his first post and what were you looking for from edo


@Bella hi did you somehow miss that we have Myko at L-1? That was your chance to hammer scum and you missed it.

[Papa Zito]

It's his first post more than his second, I just wanted to see a bit more from edo before I voted.

What was wrong with his first post and what were you looking for from edo

Posts happened while I was posting, so by the time I had read Realto's post in question and was thinking about it, Edo had made his unvote move. It seemed really forced to me. I wanted to see how that ended up developing, mostly on Edo's end.

So how did this end up with a Realeo vote?

[Papa Zito]

Well that certainly didn't give me any reason to move my vote.

[Papa Zito]

Well that certainly didn't give me any reason to move my vote.

Do you think scum myko antagonizes someone not voting him while at L-1?

I thought he was writing 3 paragraphs about a joke post but apparently this is actually a thing so I'm just letting whatever this is play out.

[Papa Zito]

so's your face but you don't hear me complain.

This is an excellent post.

Time to vote an actual scums.


UNVOTE: mykonian
VOTE: BTD Whatever


P.S. Boy is it nice to not come back to 100 pages amen

[Papa Zito]

botd

what's dis

[Papa Zito]

My kids say the weirdest shit lately, I have no idea what they're talking about anymore.

[Papa Zito]

sorry, i will be here tomorrow <3

Incidentally I'd like to remind the class of this post.

[Papa Zito]

I hope chamber and Myko invite me to the wedding.

More BTD votes are always welcome.

[Papa Zito]

Seems random, but sure.

vote btd

Ok I appreciate the support but I thought I was part of your scumpool so what gives.

[Papa Zito]

Well I dunno if you've got a hierarchy or something going, it just struck me as odd that you'd be willing to shift just cuz I asked.

Lack of presence and lack of game solving make them the top candidate to me. They opened saying "I am trying to break [the game]" and then proceeded to completely fail in breaking it. For someone who's trying to project as a cerebral player their analysis fails to take some very important things into consideration (both cops getting NKed, lack of info from 2 days worth of day play) and even though they note some weaknesses in their own arguments they continues to push the notion anyway. There's an agenda here and I don't think it's a town one.

[Papa Zito]

my biggest issue was how long it took for him to start

I run into this sentiment all the time.

Just because I didn't write that paragraph the second I put my vote down doesn't mean I wasn't thinking it at the time. Pls see here for a very strong early influence on Zito's playstyle.

[Papa Zito]

What you describe is thinking someone is scum, showing it, but not saying anything about it. What I see is saying something about a suspicion (you misread the situation), and not having an alternative suspicion to go from. It's not keeping information from us like thesp describes, it's not having the information as of yet and waiting for the game to come to you.

Not entirely, no. I have suspicions and townreads that I haven't voiced at all because I don't think it's to the town's benefit to do so at this time.

You're calling for Tenshii votes when you're on the BTD wagon? You're playing a weird game myko.

[Papa Zito]

Well I've already called for more BTD votes and I even laid out why I'm there a few posts ago so that clearly wasn't what Gork's looking for.

Being on one wagon (which you listed p far down on your hierarchy btw) and then calling for votes on someone else doesn't make a ton of sense to me no.

[Papa Zito]

What if more than 3-4 people were playing this game.

Can you imagine.

[Papa Zito]

well you two are here. Without peeking, what do you know about eso?

I had to peek cuz we don't have a player named eso in the game :3

He's still a big fat question mark in my book. Apparently he committed to content today so I'm hype for that.

[Papa Zito]

Instead, posting about breaking strategies is a lot more likely to come from Town. If you are Town and discover a breaking strategy, you want to say it in order to win. If you are scum, you would keep it to yourself in order to stop Town from using it against you. I may go into more detail later.

There's absolutely nothing self-serving in this paragraph whatsoever.

May I remind you that said "breaking strategy" has not been identified.

Either way, we are No Lynching today and tomorrow.

I'm sorry friend but you lack the cachet to make pronouncements and expect them to be followed :/

[Papa Zito]

Gork ilu and if you're scum this game I kinda don't care.

[Papa Zito]

I don't think any of this makes BTD scum and am confused by those assertions. If he believes he has a breaking strategy, other than communicating it more clearly, he's playing as he should be.

That's great except:

1. He hasn't seemed to have noticed the town ain't buying what he's selling
2. In fact he's got a decent wagon on him due to his antics
3. He hasn't actually attempted to sell his idea harder
4. He never put forward a breaking strategy to begin with
5. He doubled down on failtown instead of playing the game
6. If allowed to continue blindly pursuing his "strategy" it'll be impossible to read his slot
7. He chose to completely ignore some extremely well thought-out criticism a young plucky adventurer has already made
8. Eight, eight, I forget what 8 was for
9. Nine, nine for the lost gods
10. ten, ten, ten for everything everything everything

[Papa Zito]

The breaking strategy has been identified. No Lynch twice. If no Cop dies on Night 1, we all hypoclaim. Both Cops claim on Day 3, and we should hopefully be able to farm results from them. (Even if a Cop dies on Night 1, we will still No Lynch. There is not much advantage to having 8 players. However, we do not hypoclaim then.)

Already discussed why this is not a "breaking strategy".

Again, one look at Surreptitious should show the clear parallels between that and this. However, if we mess up in this game we cannot simply recover and follow the breaking strategy. If we mislynch today, the strategy is useless.

I'm playing this game not some other one, I'm not gonna go read some other game. Also strategy is already useless.

That is why I implore you to all at the very least consider a No Lynch as a viable option.

I did and rejected it, now what.

[Papa Zito]

It's only not lynching once.

The breaking strategy has been identified. No Lynch twice.

someone help


pedit: @Myko see what

[Papa Zito]

If we lynch scum on Day 1, it is probably better than two No Lynches. The chances of lynching scum Day 1 is 2/9. We have a 7/9 chance of lynching Town, and a Town lynch is much worse than two No Lynches.

is this that fake news I've been hearing so much about


If this game devolves into a bunch of pseudomath I'm going to be very put out.

[Papa Zito]

You are forcing him to prove it by calling him scum for believing it. What else do you expect him to do?

Drop the nonsense and play mafia?

If there's actual math involved why the hell is that only being conjured up now. Surely all that reasoning existed when he came up with the Grand Plan. Surely he's not just making shit up on the fly.

right

[Papa Zito]

1) I'm pushing Chamber

You are?

[Papa Zito]

Tenshii those are some bad posts yes.

however

If the standard is "every post made must be used to figure out alignment" then it looks like we're in a 9p scumgame gj team we win.
ALSO why are you cherrypicking those particular posts when chamber's iso consists of so much more (aka a giant mass of mykohate) - it's not because those don't fit your chosen narrative is it?


pedit ffs gork let me play too

[Papa Zito]

What's the purpose for scum chamber to do that myko.

[Papa Zito]

(he says, dreading engagement)

[Papa Zito]

I dunno, that seems like a very apples to handgrenades comparison myko. To me at least chamber's been pretty clear on his BTD stance and while I don't agree with it I see where he's coming from. Encouraging another player to engage seems a pretty townie thing to do so I'm really ??? on this.

[Papa Zito]

Gork can you redo that one I got lost.

[Papa Zito]

I can already tell I'm gonna have to lynch Quilford on general principle.

[Papa Zito]

oh god the 3rd person is everywhere

[Papa Zito]

I think I'd be hurt if I could parse that.

[Papa Zito]

ebwop: Zito would be hurt if Zito could parse that.

[Papa Zito]

How about you post something readable instead of bitching at people for not being able to read your stuff.

[Papa Zito]

Papa Zito, one of trealeo reason realeo (Realeo)

Ok well this is now my favorite thing in the game.

If I'm reading right I can boil down your post to two points.
1. I'm angry and it's faked
2. I'm not producing content.


For #1 - I haven't been at all angry this entire game. You're misinterpreting something.
For #2 - I'd be interested in seeing you try to prove this.

[Papa Zito]

What is with the vote? My vote was pressure, what's yourz?

So first of all I can 0% not see where you're interpreting anger from in that post. Like I'm completely legitimately lost.

Second of all a vote is content so I guess you've kinda already failed in that department :/

Thirdly I actually rather explicitly laid out my issues with BTD in another post so I guess I'm gonna have to ask you to actually read the game and get back to us.

Lastly (and this is just some advice) if you're gonna vote someone "for pressure" then you shouldn't announce that's what you're doing.

[Papa Zito]

Uh if you want to just sit there in a pool of wrongness we can agree to disagree sure. I mean I'm kinda the expert of my own emotions and votes are some of the best content available but if you wanna think differently have fun I guess.

For #3 I dunno how better I can explain so maybe you should ask specific questions so you can achieve Total Understanding.

And lastly that's not how pressure works but again you do you I guess. I'll just say I felt absolutely no pressure from you when you did it (which is why it was ignored!) so if pressure was your goal you failed.

[Papa Zito]

Well I dunno if you've got a hierarchy or something going, it just struck me as odd that you'd be willing to shift just cuz I asked.

Lack of presence and lack of game solving make them the top candidate to me. They opened saying "I am trying to break [the game]" and then proceeded to completely fail in breaking it. For someone who's trying to project as a cerebral player their analysis fails to take some very important things into consideration (both cops getting NKed, lack of info from 2 days worth of day play) and even though they note some weaknesses in their own arguments they continues to push the notion anyway. There's an agenda here and I don't think it's a town one.

Also I haven't once had a setup spec fight with BTD. Are we reading the same game?

[Papa Zito]

Chamber what's your opinion of whatever in the world Realeo is doing?

[Papa Zito]

No his case was that I'm displaying fake anger and not providing content. Then we had a jolly back and forth. That's all you got from it?

[Papa Zito]

I'm a stranger in a strange land.

[Papa Zito]

He's my biggest with the caveat that we have a couple other very low impact players who are tbd

[Papa Zito]

I do! A few in fact. But I don't think it helps things to talk about them too much.

[Papa Zito]

I disagree with your disagreement.

:3

[Papa Zito]

People keep promising things this game and not delivering.

It's really shaking my faith in humanity.

[Papa Zito]

But that's an argument why BTD is an idiot, not an argument why BTD is mafia.

I think I'm being trolled. Regardless, I've answered everything so I'm going to stop the conversation here.


@Quilford let's talk about your myko vote. Why does that guy rankle ur ankles.

[Papa Zito]

Why does that guy rankle ur ankles.

have you met me.

I mean beyond the obvious gosh

[Papa Zito]

It's mainly the weakness of his cases against chamber and the correspondingly outsized level of enthusiasm with which he pursues them. There are other things that I'm sure I will remember when I wake up in the morning but mainly that yea

Do you think a scum player is more likely to pursue a weak case with gusto than a town one?

[Papa Zito]

Interesting. 2 more questions:

1. You're not the first player to characterize myko's play this way. In fact, he sports the largest wagon because of it. As you say he's an experienced player, why do you think scum!myko hasn't changed tactics yet?
2. How would you describe Realeo's case on me?

[Papa Zito]

Myko, let's make the assumption that the chamber lynch isn't happening today, for whatever reason. Where do you go from here?

[Papa Zito]

Zito's "case" is kinda empty cuz the "he's ignoring what town is saying" stuff is exactly why I think he's town.

This wasn't my case.

Riddle me this: When we hit Day 2 and BTD still has yet to comment on any player in this game in a meaningful way, what will you do then? Also, what's your opinion of the fact that the Great Mathemagician has yet to conjure up the mathemagics he promised us?

[Papa Zito]

You trust Quilford enough to drop your myko hate?

I don't understand this move.

[Papa Zito]

Don't misunderstand me, I do love me a good flashwagon

and Tenshii ain't done shit so the target isn't even bad

but in chamber's case in particular it makes the eyebrows go o___O

[Papa Zito]

I still think myko is the most likely scum. No movement is happening on that front.

I thought Quilford joining the wagon and making noise was movement but if your end goal is to figure Quilford out then gl hf.

[Papa Zito]

Myko, let's make the assumption that the chamber lynch isn't happening today, for whatever reason. Where do you go from here?

I'm kind of surprised at your take on my move given this post?

I don't follow.

[Papa Zito]

My actions are me answering the slightly different question "make the assumption that a myko lynch isn't happening today"

I'm still not seeing what you're driving at.

[Papa Zito]

@Chamber: Yes and no. You'll note my vote didn't move, for example.


@Edo: Is it stubborness or avoidance.

What's your issue with Tenshii again?

[Papa Zito]

Oh no somebody doesn't approve of my methods whatever shall I do I've definitely never run into this sentiment in a mafia game before I better completely change the way I play to accommodate them fuck

[Papa Zito]

In a world where I am town idgaf what you think really. When I'm making a post I don't study it carefully, brow furrowed, and ponder to myself "I wonder how chamber will interpret this post that isn't even directed at him" while sipping my tea, pinkie finger proudly waving in the air. The idea that my efforts to determine the alignments of my fellow players may not please you, may not pass the Chamber Litmus Test of What Should Be Done, isn't really on my radar. If I could choose to plug in my +100 Keyboard of Chamber Pleasing vs my +2 Keyboard of Scumhunting you can bet a shiny silver dollar I'll choose the latter. You wouldn't believe how many players before you have said much the same thing and therefore how I'm so out of shits to give I've become a shit black hole which both unfortunately and inevitably attracts posts just like that one. Thus is my burden.

[Papa Zito]

That's OK bud, we'll talk when you feel better.

Man Realeo I'm feeling so much pressure right now I'm squeezing diamonds out of my ass this is amazing.

In other news,

@town

we ain't winning this if we don't start getting some participation soon just FYI.

[Papa Zito]

Theres no way in hell we should end he day with a lynch given that BTD hasn't made a stance all game.

I like the idea of him pushing for an optimal gamebreaking strategy but he isn't actually doing that. By his next post, he should fully convince why we should follow the strat or he should post stances.

Atm, it just comes off as active lurkng. Highly scum motivated btw.

Hallelujah, someone else sees the obvious. Let's get a wagon going.

Admittedly, Chamber kinda sits well in my book. But I can't imagine the three posts I scumread him for coming from town at all.

Is this referring to 294?

[Papa Zito]

omg it's Christmas in July

[Papa Zito]

A scum lynch if we can get these other chuckleheads in line.

[Papa Zito]

Lord have mercy.

Here's a quick meta dive (don't groan)

>_< do you know me


Also I was in a Mars Volta mafia game once is that related to you somehow?

[Papa Zito]

actually lets make this into a game because games are fun!
its called "btd if you make one more post saying "oh man these numbers are looking good" without actually posting the numbers and without actually pushing any reads then you get to die"-the-game.
sounds fun right?

Your presence on the wagon would give this that little added oomph.

[Papa Zito]

I'm suspicious of the win rate math but I don't math, can someone vet that stuff plz.

I love you dropped this shit right before deadline btw.

Their sum is

6431/15120

. This is the winning probability, assuming a Cop dies on Night 1.

Chamber has repeatedly said that one of the cops has made themselves obvious. I dunno what he's talking about but he seems convinced so maybe the scums are too. Your calculations assume random targeting but if chamber is correct then the chance of a cop dying N1 is far far higher than what you've posted making our winrate possibility far far lower. Assume he's correct and a cop has been identified. Do you still support this madness.

[Papa Zito]

And if anyone did listen to BTD and read the Spy game. He literally did just this. Break the game and not give reads.

It's not an alignment tell for him, as I've stated. But no one should be just "annoyed" with this and then voting him.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

[Papa Zito]

I'm referring to the game he linked here.

ok that makes way more sense ty

But if you're telling me BTD is a strong scumread because he's focusing on the game setup more than the players - it's just how he plays. And I'm not confident enough yet to follow through on that if his math is actually decent.

I thought you said his math checks out?

[Papa Zito]

Zito, I'm not confident enough in my read of him to tie a rope around his neck and refuse to listen to what he has to say. His math does check out/is pretty decent.

What's fun about this is literally the only thing you can really judge is the math. To me there's a very finite set of options here.

1. You can review the math, thumbs up, and follow the plan
2. You can review the math, say it sucks but they're probably town for trying, go do something else.
3. They're scum no matter how many weird calculations happen OR so antitown that you don't care, killkillkill

What puzzles me is you've done Strange Option 4:

4. Review the math, thumbs up, unvote, ?

Looming deadlines make this one particularly puzzling. Help me out here.

[Papa Zito]

Zito - I'm currently doing option one. I'm following in plan until I have a stronger scumread.

I guess I missed your no lynch vote.

[Papa Zito]

Zito, voting for a No Lynch is not uh necessary
you just uhm
don't vote

Voting for no lynch ends the day early (which you'd want if you support The Plan) and it makes a definitive stance.

Ah,

top pick is now Edo.

Any takers?
Tenshii? I won't settle

It also makes me wonder wtf you're doing here.

[Papa Zito]

Get it in your head now then that we probably don't have similar approaches.

I half agree with BTD, but if I have a good lynch option, I'd prefer the lynch. I don't agree with ending the day early, no. And BTD is not a good lynch option. Aight?

It's not approach, it's just I'm not understanding anything you're doing.

Like I don't understand how you can half agree with BTD. Recall the whole basis of BTD's play is he has "broken the setup" and we should therefore blindly follow him and The Plan to a nice happy win with a bow on top. There's 0 nuance involved, it's all very cold and calculated. If his math is good then his conclusions must be correct right? If his conclusions are correct then scumreads don't matter right?

[Papa Zito]

mars just said that btd is equally as cold about giving reads over providing setup spec in his towngame. does that not make sense to you/not give you pause?

When has meta ever given me pause. idgaf about meta

there's a 2/9 chance we lynch scum today if we pick from a hat. When we are around 2/9, BTD's math makes sense and we should follow the plan.

I'm looking more at his claimed 60-something% winrate, which is higher than average. I'm curious why if you believe in his math you're not gung-ho for the higher win %.

Lemme explain more I guess. I've played several newbie games recently. Newbie games use something called Matrix6 as the setup. Smart people have come up with an actual breaking strategy in newbies that everyone claims bp or not bp on Day 1, then other stuff happens. Following the bp claim strat greatly increases town's chances of winning and most games now feature it, which has caused some people to start talking about changing the setup cuz people are less playing mafia and more playing strategy game. So if you believe in BTD Strat like people believe in Matrix6 Strat I'm puzzled why you're not advocating for it more.

I'm relaxed as fk no worries, I'm just utterly confused about your mindset.

Tenshii I can read for you in depth at lunch. He's had basically 0 presence so I don't have a strong opinion on him.

[Papa Zito]

Ok I read Tenshii.

This game is a mess.

Much happier with this than BTD.

Why aren't you happy with a BTD lynch?

[Papa Zito]

This doesn't tell my why you're against a BTD lynch. Why is he off the table.

[Papa Zito]

How does it not tell you that?

Because you literally just said "I don't want to lynch him today because that'll force him to play tomorrow"

I'm asking why you feel this is necessary or even a good idea.

[Papa Zito]

At the moment BTD is being very null and has a plausible excuse for it.

What's your opinion of his giant wall?

[Papa Zito]

It's very null. It is a perfectly objective, mathematical analysis of a potential breaking strategy for this setup. There is nothing about being scum or town that changes the difficulty of doing mathematics.

Jesus Christ.

I asked for your opinion of it. Is it any good? Should we follow it? Did it make sense?

[Papa Zito]

I'm not talking about Tenshii yet.

i can give added oomph by making him dead if his next post sucks.

I take it you didn't feel his next post sucked then.

[Papa Zito]

Gork I am not happy.


I would rather vote Edo than Tenshii at this point but Tenshii is ok.

[Papa Zito]

1st, the scumgame, I'm not sure why it was linked as an example of theory posting. There's none.

huh

What was the context (in this game) for that link? Who linked it and why?

[Papa Zito]

Myko I'm assuming it's this post right:

Here's a quick meta dive (don't groan), I did of BTD in one of his recent mafia games:
His ISO


He...
1) did talk a lot about the setup of the game (which is also very unique) and trying to figure out by the setup
2) by talking about the setup a lot he avoided talking about reads
3) lurked heavily and beetlejuiced a lot and reached his prod timers

From this, I have every reason to be fine with believing BTD entered this game trying to break it - but this isn't alignment indicative for him and is not going to steer me away from scumreading his low activity and his avoidance of talking about real reads.

@Mars

why did you link this game if he did 0 theorycrafting in it?

[Papa Zito]

2) by talking about the setup a lot he avoided talking about reads

in the scum game he at least gave fake reads at the start(theres not a lot of theory at the start of oligarchy)

?

[Papa Zito]

Also those quotes aren't him purely theorycrafting. He's talking about people's motivations for doing things

God I hate meta.

[Papa Zito]

You remind me of caled but I don't think she plays mafia.


We have to somehow get 5 of 7 people to agree on a lynch with BTD and Tenshii sitting on no lynch votes.


I'd like to note that BTD has disappeared

yet again

instead of insuring that after his giant ass post people actually followed through. I WOULD THINK that if your real goal is to lead the town to glory via math then you'd actually be pushing people on it. I really don't think the guy is town and people are being bizarrely noncommittal on the guy.

Purely from a utility standpoint I

really

would prefer we bonk one of the lurkerish players.

[Papa Zito]

^ I'd like to apologize for forgetting pronouns in that post.

[Papa Zito]

I don't support a myko lynch today.

[Papa Zito]

Is who mars is relevant? (though again, I think there is a pretty obvious guess based on what's been said)

It's not I just think mysteries are fun.


BTD, Tenshii, Edo - I'll do any of those today.

[Papa Zito]

Yes hello I'm ignoring this question again.

[Papa Zito]

ilu gork never change

In general I don't like giving out too many townreads because it helps scum players choose kills. In games where town is unfocused (like this one!) I don't like giving out too many townreads because coming to consensus on a lynch is hard enough, I don't want to sit here and debate endlessly on why I think someone is town. In this particular setup I honestly don't know if it's a good idea or not but gut says no.

I will say this: We've had several 1-on-1s in this game and I think those are both excellent opportunities for lurky scumplayers to hide and also major demotivators for lurky scumplayers to post.

[Papa Zito]

Doesn't matter mate. I've walked around in red cloth all day, chasing players around. People can't look beyond that. I just keep pulling those eyes to me. BTD can have his one burst of activity at L-1 just to show he really means it as town. And people buy that shit!? That's literally the one thing that killed that wagon. But kill it it did.

You'll note I did my best to figure out why exactly it killed that wagon but people didn't wanna play ball. Which is fine I guess but here we both know that BTD isn't gonna post again today. :/

[Papa Zito]

The Gork Hath Spoken

[Papa Zito]

I really don't care what Calcutron 5000's claim is.

[Papa Zito]

I looked up Mars Argo and she apparently used to do stuff with Titanic Sinclair back in the day.

He's the dude that does the Poppy videos now.

weird

[Papa Zito]

I am capable of voting Tenshii yes.

[Papa Zito]

You seem to have a habit of misrepresenting what people have said. I greatly prefer a BTD lynch.

[Papa Zito]

Haven't read but looks like we're hypoclaiming cop results. I got a guilty on Quilford.

I dunno who hasn't gone, popcorn to Gork? If not Gork uh Edo?

[Papa Zito]

lol @ people bitching about the lynch


Myko can you share your mystical wagon stuff please

[Papa Zito]

Myko can you share your mystical wagon stuff please

Sort of ties into your answer, unsurprisingly. Otherwise I wouldn't have been too interested in that vote anymore. You give your view on it, I give mine?[/quote]
My problem with this reply is that the words are in English but there's no meaning.

Beep boop I'm a stupid robot and couldn't parse your answer, can you try again?

lol @ people bitching about the lynch

where is magical day 2 zito????????????????



bad zito
if there were emojis on mafiascum you'd get the slap slap slap

OHO I SEE

I'm attempting magics but there's not much cooperation to be had ITT.

[Papa Zito]

stupid robots can't manage quote tags


beep boop

[Papa Zito]

If I hypo, we're still waiting on Edo to hypo. Nothing effectively changes.

what the hell

[Papa Zito]

Wtf do you mean wth

Ok look son.

I already strongarmed a lynch on someone who was being uncooperative.

I ain't scared to do it again.

Are you hearing me.

[Papa Zito]

I stand by what I'm saying. Lynch me if you don't like it.

You got it.

VOTE: Tenshii

I already strongarmed a lynch on someone who was being uncooperative.

I ain't scared to do it again.

did you forget how to scumhunt?

yes

I mean wait no see: myko conversation.

whew you almost got me on that one

[Papa Zito]

As for zito, I know this is old news, but I'd like a serious answer here:

I didn't know this was directed at me, I thought you were talking to Gork.

What did I learn? I dunno what you mean. Quote 1 was a reaction to one of your posts. Quote 2 was an answer to chamber's question. Quote 3 signaled a shift in my thinking. None of those were me attempting to learn anything. Generally when I'm attempting to learn something I put one of these handy markers at the end ==> ?

[Papa Zito]

So I'm mostly interested in what the indeed apparent shift in thinking was, given it's not in those posts. I know what the posts are, but what were you thinking behind them.

Ok well
* In quote 1 I was thinking "wow what a shit post by player Mykonian. I will let the other players know I think that was a shit post by announcing my vote is not moving. That will also indicate that my vote is no longer RVS"
* In quote 2 I was thinking "I thought chamber's original post was a joke but apparently it is not a joke. I will let the other players know I made a mistake. I am curious what the hell they are talking about now so I will also signal to the other players that I am both watching the conversation and not interfering in it."
* In quote 3 I was thinking "yo here's a player who's pretending to play the game with math but isn't actually playing the game let's pressure him to make him play the game. That's worse than whatever the hell myko is doing."

I hope this trip into the depths of my thinking in the very early part of the game was instructive.

[Papa Zito]

ii) myko has played UNBELIEVABLY obtuse about so many points people have made.
he did the same thing with chamber that hes doing with me, where hes basically throwing all of his effort into character assassinating us and redirecting the conversation every time we bring up a point that might be difficult
to attack directly.

can we talk about this

and by talk about this I mean spoonfeed it to me ty

[Papa Zito]

@zito: not really :/

So what, exactly, were you expecting?

the active lurking scum, that would be you, Zito.

I don't think you know what active lurking means.

Or VCA for that matter.

[Papa Zito]

I've been pondering and I think, with both cops still alive, we should save claiming for tomorrow.

[Papa Zito]

We already have 2 guaranteed results. I'm greedy for 4.

[Papa Zito]

@zito: not really :/

So what, exactly, were you expecting?

[Papa Zito]

I thought it was a key example of what I see.

Meaning what? Cuz from here you quoted 3 completely random things from early in the game that really don't have much bearing on what's going on. What does "what I see" mean?

But sarcasm is what I get so it doesn't really get me two for the price of one.

I literally gave you my thoughts when I made those posts. What the hell do you want from me.

[Papa Zito]

I think 4 results is a won game but I'm not a math titan so don't quote me on that.

[Papa Zito]

I ask for thoughts and you literally reword your posts.

Naw, you asked for thoughts so I gave you my thoughts. Those are 100% certified Grade-A brainpan synapse firings. Accept no substitutes, look for the yellow star on the label.

====

"I thought this was a shit post". Why?

See this is a different question. Let's examine the Bad Post.

For one, the trigger is that it's a theory post in the RVS. I don't quite know why but they end up being scum more often, I even did them more as scum.

This is called meta. Meta is bad and dumb and evil don't do meta. Here's why it's bad. You've taken something that one player (you) did in some other game (UNIDENTIFIED) and applied it to a completely different player in a completely different game. By doing so, you ignore such factors as:
* Different states of the game
* Different cast of characters in the game
* Different game setups
* Different playstyles between the players

and on and on.

Next:

On top of theory being very non committal in terms of game involvement
...
I get that theory is part of the game

Here you've argued against yourself. If theory is part of the game, then how is it worth voting over!?!??!

but the most eggregious part is that it discusses a potential no lynch before the game has properly left the starting blocks.

How is this even relevant? Chamber was considering the whole no-lynch-is-optimal thing. Who cares if the game is in RVS. Why not talk about it early. This is nonsense.

Being a succinct player though, I'd rather just call the post shit and announce that to the playerbase so they can go about their lives instead of having to read all that ^^^

===

"I'm going to watch and not interfere". Why not? What made you decide that the best course of action was to let things be for a moment, in stead of digging to understand what was going on, given you were so confused?

Why bother asking a bunch of questions if letting the conversation flow naturally will not only allow me to learn whatever they're talking about but in addition give me an opportunity to form reads on those players.

I get asked all the time about my non-interference stance and it continues to boggle my mind every time it's asked. As if I'm somehow obligated to be involved in every damn conversation in every damn game I play in while people like Edo don't post for days and hey man what the fuck are standards.

===

The only answer is that btd was a pressure vote. Which is pretty meager for an explanation of decidedly short posts.

ur mom's a pretty meager explanation for decidedly short posts

Can I remind you, El Capitan, that:
* This all happened super early in the game (early enough you were bitching about RVS); and
* Announcing a pressure vote as a pressure vote is pretty stupid?

So your sarcastic last line rather shows that you expected me to get nothing from this. Well done.

ty bro
pedit: too late suckahhhhh

[Papa Zito]

oh hey guys this game is still going

[Papa Zito]

i believe the general idea is that if we dont have the cops claim now, if we mislynch today then scum has room to counterclaim and muddle with who is conftown or not tomorrow when all they would have to do is trick one person to win at that point.

Ok that's fair.

And when it comes down to it, neither are actively hunting either.

I think it's time to put you out to pasture bud.



I'd lynch Edo sure.

[Papa Zito]

/summon zito

zitoztioztiztozitoztizotiztozitzotizotztiztozotiiztoztizotztizozitziztzitozitozitozitotzitoztiztoziztozitozzitoztioztiztozitoztizotiztozitzotizotztiztozotiiztoztizotztizozitziztzitozitozitozitotzitoztiztoziztozitozzitoztioztiztozitoztizotiztozitzotizotztiztozotiiztoztizotztizozitzizzitozitozitozitotzitoztiztoziztozitozzitoztioztiztozitoztizotiztozitzotizotztiztozotiiztoztizotztizozitziztzitozitozitozitotzitoztiztoziztozitozzitoztioztiztozitoztizotiztozitzotizotztiztozotiiztoztizotztizozitziztzitozitozitozitotzitoztiztoziztozitoz

At 7:05 AM I was getting ready for work.

I'm just a dude. Go Quilford.

[Papa Zito]

OR the board doesn't recognize daylight savings time?

TIL

either way I just got here hello

[Papa Zito]

How I've never known this in my 8 years here is a mystery.

Mars plz don't abuse me I'm fragile in my old age.

[Papa Zito]

oh man we've got a real scooby doo one here

[Papa Zito]

Quilford has a guilty on myko, and myko contradicts Tenshii. So we lynch myko. ?

[Papa Zito]

@Tenshii - Literally the only mention of Mars in your iso is your claimed guilty on her. Why did you choose her to investigate?

[Papa Zito]

Quilford has a guilty on myko, and myko contradicts Tenshii. So we lynch myko. ?

Hell no. You can think further than that.

I have thought further than that (aka Mars should be lynched)

But the idea of lynching you and getting to talk about it after the game is so tempting you have no idea.

[Papa Zito]

I don't think I should be lynched anymore. In any scenario. Tenshii is insane or not a cop.

Or Quilford is also scum. So you'd be buying into a Quilford/me scumteam if you lynch me.

Thing is you have a 0% shot at being a cop and a Not0% shot at being scum. Lynching you tells us the setup without risking lynching our power roles.

[Papa Zito]

see zito that would be a good idea if mars was being scummy and if we wouldnt be going into lylo if we mislynch here.

You think her posting right now is town?

[Papa Zito]

theres also that lynching mars doesnt confirm who is scum in the cop pool. we still have no idea who would be scum between the three of them.

Sure it does.

Tenshii is sane cop (guilty on Mars)
Quilford is scum
Myko is insane (guilty on Tenshii)


ez

[Papa Zito]

you think the scumteam is mars and quilford.

The possibility fits the facts does it not.

Lynching Mars informs us without risk of killing our PRs does it not



Where am I being factually incorrect here

[Papa Zito]

theres also that lynching mars doesnt confirm who is scum in the cop pool. we still have no idea who would be scum between the three of them.

Sure it does.

Tenshii is sane cop (guilty on Mars)
Quilford is scum
Myko is insane (guilty on Tenshii)


ez

Also possible:

Tenshii is scum
myko is sane cop
Quilford is insane

True. So if Mars flips guilty it's my version, if she flips inno it's yours. Congrats we know what's going on and 0 cops lynched.

[Papa Zito]

No, if she flips guilty it's also possible that my version is at play.

Oh hmm


This is why I don't do setups.

[Papa Zito]

I'd like all our cops to talk about why they investigated who they investigated plz.

[Papa Zito]

I wouldn't push a guilty in this setup either to be fair, I wouldn't know what my sanity is.

The knowledge of which, however, flies in the face of Tenshii's "I think I'm insane" nonsense.

[Papa Zito]

It makes no sense for tenshii to investigate a townread whatsoever. The first theory he posted was how this could be abused by scum.

What if Tenshii thought Mars Argo was hard to read, and investigated him for that?

What if we let Tenshii answer instead of telling him what to say?

[Papa Zito]

We're already past the hypoclaim business so why are we talking about this.

[Papa Zito]

sigh

[Papa Zito]

Tenshii you need to start participating ffs.

Edo do something.

[Papa Zito]

What are blues?

I'll digest the above when (if?) I get some time tonight.

[Papa Zito]

VT's.

Ok.

Myko/Quil are a 50/50 shot from your perspective. Edo and I are who knows. Why do you prefer us? What exempts Mars or Gork?

[Papa Zito]

Because I have TR's on them.

edit: you suddenly made an action that makes sense nvm

[Papa Zito]

I honestly have no idea.

I'm gonna reread things.

[Papa Zito]

Ya'll lynched me over Edo.

P salty about this.

[Papa Zito]

Would that have changed anything?

Signs point to no.

[Papa Zito]

My 143 vs 29 posts didn't show that?

welp

[Papa Zito]

My 143 vs 29 posts didn't show that?

welp

mate.

Yes hello?

[Papa Zito]

Really wanna immortalize your legacy in this game huh