Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[Tchill13]

Dude, it's RVS; why are you expecting me to make sense?

This is totally understandable to me and as far as wanting to get out of rvs as early as possible goes it still takes some time. You can't force the game to a point where every action has a reason on post 15.

[RadiantCowbells]

didn't even get pagetop

[Tchill13]

Do you think Percy trying to add reason to his RVS a bit odd? Like as if he's trying hard not to make his vote scummy?

Well I don't consider it an rvs vote. I just never understand why people vote me for saying "sup", because this isn't the first time it's happened. Getting people to explain what their issue is I feel helps me better understand them. Right now I don't like percy's response and the old me would probably go into a death tunnel, but with limited posts and lack of cares right now I'm not going to dwell on it.

Hi nancy. This vote is to add weight to the Robbinva-PersephoneSidekick conflict. Basically, I want them to squabble while I observe from a distance.

Town.

Sounds scummy as if instigating a fight, but townAF for honesty

that isn't a good reason to give a town read imo. The best way to seem genuine, is to actually be genuine. You can totally be genuine as scum

UNVOTE:

Until I get caught up completely. I do like the last half of this post and it makes me feel better about Robbnva.

[Tchill13]

Yeah so far my thoughts are there's been way too much attention brought on to Percy for a simple rvs vote. Then I believe it seemed like korts and monkey were looking into it a little too much. Specifically korts with his accusation of Percy using wifom. Percy got called out for a BS reason. She then tried to provide information that wasn't there to appease those who were giving her attention. Of course that's gonna come off as scummy especially if your thought process is biased.

[Kaboose]

So after catching up I feel like one of two things here.

-Perse is scum and one of TChill and Massive are too because of the crappy way they unvoted. However both TChill and Massive voted Rob, and that makes it hard for me to think that's legit 3 scum, two on a wagon of another, two unvoting off the wagon and joining the same other person...

-The other is that Perse is town and TChill and/or Massive are scum and decided to cause some chaos by trying to derail a wagon for no reason other than to cause doubt.

I'm keeping my vote on Perse for now, I do want them to respond to my question about how they worded that one post.

TChill wagon gained a lot of momentum quickly from Perse. At least it seemed that way.

[Tchill13]

So in both situations for you kaboose there's a possibility I'm scum yet you don't vote me?

[Robbnva]

Why did you ignore my question tchill?

[Tchill13]

Honestly I feel like the reason for the wagon building on them right now is pretty stupid.

coming from the guy who was just helping the wagon along...

why did you join it if you thought the reason for it was stupid?

Just to help build it in general. As in a reaction test. People kept harping on Percy to provide reasoning for a rvs vote. I wasn't gonna continue to be a part of that when I realized that was the basis for the wagon.

[Robbnva]

I don't buy that really. Plus Perse has twice misrepresented what happened. In one post she says I argued with her which I didn't. She also said I was defensive which I wasn't.

I feel like you knew she was digging herself in a hole and you wanted to get off before the wagon got serious.

You and massive joined suspiciously and hopped off suspiciously as well. Ideally I'd love the scum team to be the 3 of you but I'm not that lucky.

That said I won't object to a lynch from the 3 of you.

[Kaboose]

So in both situations for you kaboose there's a possibility I'm scum yet you don't vote me?

Yes, that is correct.

[Kaboose]

I'm keeping my vote on Perse for now, I do want them to respond to my question about how they worded that one post.

TChill wagon gained a lot of momentum quickly from Perse. At least it seemed that way.

@Tchill - In case you missed it.

[PersephoneSidekick]

I didn't argue anything actually. I asked you a simple question.

You chose to use something game related to vote me, asking you to explain your vote is perfectly acceptable response.

you claim it was rvs, but according to my definition of rvs, it wasn't.

Also I don't really buy the whole "see if his reaction would be useful" because you have to have a familiarity with me to know how I would react as town and scum, and you don't.

my apologies for calling you he, I have issues with pronouns all the time. I will try not to make that mistake again.

There hasn't been enough from you to determine if you are scum or town yet, so I won't put you at L-1 but you are definitely on my radar. Let's see if your play improves.

I don't care what your "definition" of RVS is. And the reaction test isn't just for my benefit; 11 other people will be able to read everything we say. I mean what else is there to do interpret each other's reactions to things, this early?

Do you mean it's too early to do these things or you're suggesting that's all we really have to do this early in the game?

I wanted to "see if his reaction would be useful" i.e. make a reaction test. He basically told me that it was impossible for me to get benefit from reaction tests because I don't know his meta, which was crazy but I did my best to respond to it anyway. My first argument was to point out that even if reactions were only useful if you knew people's meta, other people who did know his meta might be reading the thread and notice useful thing about his reaction.

My second point was to say that reaction tests are one of the only useful things to do extremely early in the game. Now we have more to go on, but at the time in question there was very little existing content to analyse and so the only thing one could reasonably do is create your own content and see and interpret how other people respond, i.e. reaction tests. I wasn't being deliberately scummy, but I was being deliberately provocative in the hopes of making something happen that I or others could analyse.

Does that answer your question?

PEdit: As of the time of this writing, there is more to do than reaction tests, and I'm trying to do it. At the time of the posts of mine that were being criticised, it was all we really had to go on.

[PersephoneSidekick]

I don't buy that really. Plus Perse has twice misrepresented what happened. In one post she says I argued with her which I didn't. She also said I was defensive which I wasn't.

I feel like you knew she was digging herself in a hole and you wanted to get off before the wagon got serious.

You and massive joined suspiciously and hopped off suspiciously as well. Ideally I'd love the scum team to be the 3 of you but I'm not that lucky.

That said I won't object to a lynch from the 3 of you.

why is me not voting scummy?

Behold, Robbnva arguing with me and being defensive. Shall we argue about the definitions of words some more?

[Dark Horse]

Until I get caught up completely. I do like the last half of this post and it makes me feel better about Robbnva.

You voted him after that post though. This feels like backtracking.

[Sunlit Diamond]

Howdy folks!

I think I still haven't done a good job explaining my thought process for the stuff that got me wagonned but it's not really that important so I'm just going to let it go.

I buy that Tchill's vote switch could have been a slip. Scum motivation: just trying to lynch somebody and forgetting your previous positions (less than two hours later!) because you don't really mean them. Town motivation: changing your mind as you see things without worrying about seeming consistent because you only care about finding the answer. Being willing to call your own actions scummy if you think you're part of a scummy wagon, because even though you know you're town you recognize you did something scummy and are willing to point that out to make progress. Conclusion: kind of shockingly sloppy as scum but slips happen. But if he can explain their switch to my satisfaction, I'd call it actively towny.

Bleh I have too many townreads. I actually kind of scumread Korts on tone/structure which is unfortunate because he's also the most helpful person. But like he's

aggressively

helpful? Basically he reminds me of the "scumhunting" I did as scum in my last game. Jumping in early and responding to everything, trying to have lots of things to say when there doesn't exist much to say yet. I could vanity wagon him for it but I don't have that kind of confidence. I think I'll VOTE: Tchill because I really do want to force them to explain themself.

What exactly is going on here? In your post 72, which was your last post in the game prior to this one, you were townreading Korts for the exact same reason. Now you scumread him based on a projection if your own habits...and in the same post criticize TChill for flipping his vote. Contradictions, thy name is Persephone. Can you explain what was going on there to make

you

change your mind?

Also your scumread of Korts and TChill's scumread of Korts are reverberating in my head. You two aren't scumreading him for the exact same reason, but both of them look like attempts to make good behavior look bad, and that's curious to me, mostly because I don't think it's likely you and TChill are both scum.

[Ginngie]

who is dumb enough to scum read Korts?

[PersephoneSidekick]

Howdy folks!

I think I still haven't done a good job explaining my thought process for the stuff that got me wagonned but it's not really that important so I'm just going to let it go.

I buy that Tchill's vote switch could have been a slip. Scum motivation: just trying to lynch somebody and forgetting your previous positions (less than two hours later!) because you don't really mean them. Town motivation: changing your mind as you see things without worrying about seeming consistent because you only care about finding the answer. Being willing to call your own actions scummy if you think you're part of a scummy wagon, because even though you know you're town you recognize you did something scummy and are willing to point that out to make progress. Conclusion: kind of shockingly sloppy as scum but slips happen. But if he can explain their switch to my satisfaction, I'd call it actively towny.

Bleh I have too many townreads. I actually kind of scumread Korts on tone/structure which is unfortunate because he's also the most helpful person. But like he's

aggressively

helpful? Basically he reminds me of the "scumhunting" I did as scum in my last game. Jumping in early and responding to everything, trying to have lots of things to say when there doesn't exist much to say yet. I could vanity wagon him for it but I don't have that kind of confidence. I think I'll VOTE: Tchill because I really do want to force them to explain themself.

What exactly is going on here? In your post 72, which was your last post in the game prior to this one, you were townreading Korts for the exact same reason. Now you scumread him based on a projection if your own habits...and in the same post criticize TChill for flipping his vote. Contradictions, thy name is Persephone. Can you explain what was going on there to make

you

change your mind?

Also your scumread of Korts and TChill's scumread of Korts are reverberating in my head. You two aren't scumreading him for the exact same reason, but both of them look like attempts to make good behavior look bad, and that's curious to me, mostly because I don't think it's likely you and TChill are both scum.

Basically, I did an "omg who the hell even is scum" reread after a day away and just sort of imagined myself as scum writing the posts that different people wrote and it fit the best. I didn't even

look

at my own previous posts; I just read the stuff I missed and the isos of all the active people. I feel kind of silly now, and even less sure of myself obviously. I just if I spend all my time trying to be consistent and not look bad that will totally bias my thinking and I won't be able to actually come up with anything real.

I just have no squidding idea who is scum in this game. I have nothing. And I'm going to stop before I get into some sort of self-pitying rant about how I'm not good enough for newbie games. But like the reason I sound fake to everybody is that I'm trying to join a new community and fit in at the same time as I'm trying to solve a mystery and trying to decide which of my hypothetical new friends is trying to trick me. I just can't make my brain do those both at once very well.

Honestly playing scum was so much easier because all I had to do was get people to trust me. But now I'm going to be all sorts of things "town would never do" because I'm trying my best and don't know better. But I'm going to get lynched if I keep trying to pretend there's some deeper master plan to my inept flailings; it feels better to be read as scum than seen as incompetent but my wincon demands that I suck it up and admit to my actual stupid thought processes when people ask.

[Robbnva]

Behold, Robbnva arguing with me and being defensive. Shall we argue about the definitions of words some more?

Asking you a question is neither arguing or being defensive. So yes let's argue about that cause you clearly have no clue what it means.

Spoiler:

Definition of defensive
1
: serving to defend or protect defensive fortifications
2
a : devoted to resisting or preventing aggression or attack defensive behavior He became defensive when I brought up his spending habits.
b sports : of or relating to the attempt to keep an opponent from scoring in a game or contest a player with good defensive skills made a brilliant defensive play
3
card games
a : valuable in defensive play a defensive card in bridge
b : designed to keep an opponent from being the highest bidder a defensive bid

This is an example of somebody being defensive

Dude, it's RVS; why are you expecting me to make sense?

Let's hang this scum please.

[Robbnva]

who is dumb enough to scum read Korts?

Why would scum reading him be dumb?

[massive]

VOTE: Robbnva

Well there's no need to be condescending.

Why do you think being condescending is alignment indicative? How is this a valid case to make? This was your third post in the game and third different vote. Did you have a reason to quit liking the Perse wagon for this?

I've already said I was content with 42-44, AND I've already said why I voted Robb, so I assume you'll get to it since you appear to be catching up on oh 4 pages one post at a time. And who said I needed to make a valid case? And who said being condescending is alignment-indicative?

Huh, nope, you didn't follow up your own questions with the answers, just left it to look like I didn't answer them already, and then made a scumread based off of it.

VOTE: Kaboose

Ginngie come actually play this game.

[Robbnva]

I was reminded that Robb's original reason for voting Persephone was pretty bad

That wasn't why you voted me.... Why did you change now? btw, my reason for my vote wasn't bad at all actually.

I do find it highly suspicious that you are criticizing my reasons, when all of your votes this game have actually been for terrible reasons. I do not see this kind of play coming from town. I hate pre-flip associations, but i am feeling confident that you and PS are probably scum together.

your "I am all for an early wagon" was clearly garbage since you removed your vote 6 posts later and your follow up vote was a chainsaw vote. Now you vote somebody else because they are questioning you.

Also to answer your question about condescending being alignment indicative, YOU were the one who implied it was AI when you gave that for your reason for voting me, you know, before you backpedaled and changed your reasons later.


I'd strongly prefer a PS or a massive lynch today, hope others see just how scummy they actually are.

[massive]

If you feel like I'm scum then vote me. It's gonna take some bad scum exposure to get me lynched and that's worthwhile for the town.

[Robbnva]

well I have only 1 vote and it is in use atm. don't worry you will get lynched eventually. Now if I am wrong about you and you are town, do better please cause I hate mislynching bad players who look like scum

[humaneatingmonkey]

Hi. I promised I'll come back. So I did. Tell me if I missed something.

My questions aren't rhetorical. I'd like an answer to them. Don't ignore me.

=====================================================
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS
=====================================================

@Korts

~~~~~

Which is not to say that I don't think Persephone isn't suspcious independent of your arguments. Her play has been pretty poor so far - but yours can be characterized more specifically as opportunistic.

So how do you read Persephone's ISO then? What do you not agree on me about?

~~~~~

What would I gain as scum by pushing Percy's wagon right now if not to scumhunt and to learn from her reactions?
What would I gain as scum by openly questioning townreads people have on me this early?

--------
That said, if you have questions I needed answered, quote it to me.
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ACTUAL POST
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@TChill

Yeah so far my thoughts are there's been way too much attention brought on to Percy for a simple rvs vote. Then I believe it seemed like korts and monkey were looking into it a little too much. Specifically korts with his accusation of Percy using wifom. Percy got called out for a BS reason.

She then tried to provide information that wasn't there to appease those who were giving her attention. Of course that's gonna come off as scummy especially if your thought process is biased.

Don't you think the mere fact that she wasn't giving genuine answers and she was making it up to appease the town IS a bit scummy?
Who do you think is scum?

Well dark horse I was trying to understand why monkey was throwing shade this way and that way but voting me instead.

Unlike Korts, I don't vote someone who I only disagree with. His push against me was NAI. It could be something a town can do, but it lost townpoints because it was a bullshit push. Anyway, why do you think that I had to vote Korts?
--------
Nancy is SURPRISINGLY eloquent and non-joky, different from the game I had with her when she was town.

@Nancy

What's different this game?
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@Massive

I was ok with 42-44.

What about 42 to 44 are you okay with? What do you think about my arguments about how Persephone is making shit up just to appease town and now sounding like she's pandering?

VOTE: Robbnva

Well there's no need to be condescending.

Why do you think being condescending is alignment indicative? How is this a valid case to make? This was your third post in the game and third different vote. Did you have a reason to quit liking the Perse wagon for this?

I've already said I was content with 42-44, AND I've already said why I voted Robb, so I assume you'll get to it since you appear to be catching up on oh 4 pages one post at a time. And who said I needed to make a valid case? And who said being condescending is alignment-indicative?

Huh, nope, you didn't follow up your own questions with the answers, just left it to look like I didn't answer them already, and then made a scumread based off of it.

VOTE: Kaboose

Did you think Robb was scum? If not, why did you vote him? Do you think Kaboose is scum? If not, why did you vote him?

If you feel like I'm scum then vote me. It's gonna take some bad scum exposure to get me lynched and that's worthwhile for the town.

Am I the only one who thinks this is LAMIST as fuck?
--------
Like I said, I think there is a disconnect between her reaction vs what she claims an intended "reaction test". She's lying about that. She's lying about that. She's lying about that. And I think that's scummy.

On a personal note, Percy, I'm your friend outside of this game. Don't worry. Just play the game to whatever your role is without trying to be friends with us. That comes after.
--------

who is dumb enough to scum read Korts?

Why do you think it's dum-dum to scumread Korts?

[RadiantCowbells]

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