Mini Normal 1931 | Endgame

[MarioManiac4]

he's scum on the mulch wagon. he doesn't explain his vote. he just moves onto another target and avoids attracting attention. i find that a lot more scum are inactive and in the shadows than you would generally think.

i also want to lynch wavemode though

[rb]

once i have everyone's read on me i'll explain this point further.

[UnaBombaH]

okay why cant u sr thor?

and why the reversal on eddie? like were u just sheeping rb? im confused af now

pedit: ya i tr u. not super strong but im reasonably sure

Because I don't see the "scum" in his posts.
I don't get scum-feels from him, at all.
I do not now what others see that I am missing, but Thor isn't scum in my books until I am proven otherwise.

The reversal on Eddie comes from me having a good night sleep and deciding I'm stupid for sticking on my tunnel that "Eddie pocketing rb = scum".
I honestly felt so, but when someone can actually reason why something has happened, and even goes out to give context from outside of this game, it becomes clear that I might just simply be pig-headed.
And I don't find any trouble changing my mind if I'm given reasonable arguments.

[NotTheRealPaul]

nah thats town dunkers meta

okie dokie rb. i await ur explanation patiently.

btw thir trs u if i remember right. mighta changed but end of d1 he said so during arguments

pedit: okay so u dont sr thor. the "cant" wording confused me

i think i understand una a lot better rn

[NotTheRealPaul]

ebwop thor trs u*

[UnaBombaH]

once i have everyone's read on me i'll explain this point further.

I was wondering why you weren't NKd because I felt like most everyone townreads you.
Also it would mean that if you are indeed town, the scum are happy with every wagon and agenda you push, meaning you are on the wrong track, meaning that you have townread someone who isn't town.

Close?

[NotTheRealPaul]

good point una

Or he is scum. But if thats the case we r screwed so im discounting that possibility cuz I tr him and it would be really bad strategy imo

[NotTheRealPaul]

really bad strategy for scum!rb I mean. Like leading town and not getting nked

[UnaBombaH]

really bad strategy for scum!rb I mean. Like leading town and not getting nked

...??

Leading town and not getting NK'd is bad for scum?

You propose he should shoot himself and flip scum?

I think rb is not Mafia.

[NotTheRealPaul]

no. cuz its kinda sus if rb is leading town and never gets shot. like scum!rb wouldnt wanna lead town because it would be sus if he didnt get shot. Atleast I would think after a day or 3 of rb leading if he wasnt shot wither scum likes his reads or he is scum himself.

[NotTheRealPaul]

either*

[NotTheRealPaul]

so if someone is leading town and doesnt get nked within a day or two there are two possibilities

1. scum like them leading/their reads are crap

2. theyre scum leading town to ruin

but because i think 2 is a lot less likely, i think 1 is the case

there is a 3rd possibility were scum avoid nking obv leader because protective role paranoia

but this is getting stupid bcuz analyzing nk gets us nowwhere realky. Like it leads to a bunch of WIFOM and u just end up more confused.

[NotTheRealPaul]

analyzing nk this much*

[UnaBombaH]

I agree analyzing NKs on D2 is not wise in this big setup, but analyzing NKs D4 is very good in my experience.
I just hope I get that far.

[frog]

Eddie Cane, can you explain your read of rb in detail please

no.

OK, then let me ask a slightly different question: how strong is your townread of rb?

Even if I did exactly those things (woooosh!) how does that suggest scum intent?
At best you're describing bad play there, not scum play, what am I missing?
Also, why no VCA consideration? You have me and Eddie as top scum candidates and...nothing else in that analysis about how that seems unlikely (or, I suppose, explanation for why it is)?

Of course bad and anti-town does not mean scum, but since so much of what is commonly called scummy does not indicate scum, I cannot agree that this criticism undermines my read. You may as well apply it to everyone and everything and deflate every read that way. I think your words are deliberately misdirective, and I will never believe that you are just discussing theory, because I do not think that there is a universal way to play mafia. Theory is contingent on alignment, role, gamestate, and player. What about DunkerDoodles makes him scum, as opposed to anti-town or bad?
As for the Eddie Cane thing, I find nothing to suggest you cannot be scum together. In fact, I marked down a Day 1 argument as looking like scum vs scum. Why are you think you there is a problem here? Burden is on you

[frog]

I'm only anxious about the setup, because I feel like a small blind fish swimming with bigger..things..in the water.

And the worst thing is, I don't know whether they are sharks/whales/frogs...so I'm just an anxious n00b.

I don't think anyone, including scum, doesn't feel the same. No reason why it prevents us from being confident in our interactions though

[frog]

Hey, guys. I'm here. If SD was a vig shot, then TB is likely town.

Why are we talking so much about vigilantes? I understand that some of us have some ideas about what did and should have happened last night, but why is any of this speculation useful?

[wavemode]

We're talking about vigilantes because 5 minutes into the day mm4 went "hey that was probably a vig kill"...

[wavemode]

SD was hard scum reading mm4, by the way. Very hard

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie Cane, can you explain your read of rb in detail please

no.

OK, then let me ask a slightly different question: how strong is your townread of rb?

Even if I did exactly those things (woooosh!) how does that suggest scum intent?
At best you're describing bad play there, not scum play, what am I missing?
Also, why no VCA consideration? You have me and Eddie as top scum candidates and...nothing else in that analysis about how that seems unlikely (or, I suppose, explanation for why it is)?

Of course bad and anti-town does not mean scum, but since so much of what is commonly called scummy does not indicate scum, I cannot agree that this criticism undermines my read. You may as well apply it to everyone and everything and deflate every read that way. I think your words are deliberately misdirective, and I will never believe that you are just discussing theory, because I do not think that there is a universal way to play mafia. Theory is contingent on alignment, role, gamestate, and player. What about DunkerDoodles makes him scum, as opposed to anti-town or bad?
As for the Eddie Cane thing, I find nothing to suggest you cannot be scum together. In fact, I marked down a Day 1 argument as looking like scum vs scum. Why are you think you there is a problem here? Burden is on you

strongish. not lock town but unless certain things happen I won't be voting him

[Eddie Cane]

Eddie your vote does not matter to me because you're simply wrong and that was proven yesterday. You had a wave/thor/mulch theory and that was shown to be wrong but you're still dead-set on believing you had it partially right so you're just running down the rest of that list. You have no real case except by association. I'm struggling to see anything scummy in those posts you referenced, just certain things you consider to be bad town play, or associative reads with thor. Only thing is maybe being sure that flavor was a mislynch, but I mean, I say things like that just generally. I've seen enough day 1 mislynches to know one when I see one... the day I'm wrong is the day I'll stop saying that.

You're also giving me a migraine, sorry to say, and I'm not getting in some 10 page debate with you just so you can turn around and say I'm scummy for being defensive. You make a big stink about everything and you talk like you know everything and everyone is an idiot and nobody is allowed to disagree with your scumreads or else they're scum. It would be fine if we were getting results but here you are tunneling on 3 people and simply wrong on 2 of them, and also probably the third, and just leading the town off a cliff at this point. I'm truly just not super interested in the opinions or comments of you or rb anymore so either kill me or leave me alone.

that's not how mafia works

VOTE: wave

[Thor665]

thor explain vote 1 sentence please

I did explain it, I said VCA.
Look at the wagon from yesterday and remove everyone I have called town - that doesn't leave you a lot of options, does it?
Now look at who I called scum.
Now ask yourself how likely it is that scum voted Mulch.
Now ask yourself whose vote looked the worst.
Compare to my scum reads.
And vote.

reasons for thinking SD = scum are not the same as reasons for tunneling SD

try again

That would feed back to my question of - where else should I go exactly?
Because I don't think it was a tunnel, but I'll agree I sat there the bulk of the day.
But where would town Thor (or any semi-thinking individual) go other than there?
Answer - nowhere.
Hence why I didn't move.
Derp.

gutread skitter scum

I kinda agree with this actually

I disagree.

i need to figure something out

everyone please state their read on me if they haven't already:

dunker - town
eddie - town
paul - town
una - town
frog - town
mario - town
flavor leaf - town
thor - ?
skitter - ?
wavemode - ?

As far as I know, it's possible the entire game townreads me. Yes?

I have often stated my read on you, and for someone calling my play bad I find it silly enough that you can't figure it out that I'll refuse to answer.

You may as well apply it to everyone and everything and deflate every read that way.

I actually do - it's why I say most reads are inherently bad.

I think your words are deliberately misdirective, and I will never believe that you are just discussing theory, because I do not think that there is a universal way to play mafia.

I agree there is no universal way AND HAVE NEVER SAID THERE IS.
So how am I being misdirective exactly?

What about DunkerDoodles makes him scum, as opposed to anti-town or bad?

My town reads and the timing of his vote.

As for the Eddie Cane thing, I find nothing to suggest you cannot be scum together. In fact, I marked down a Day 1 argument as looking like scum vs scum. Why are you think you there is a problem here? Burden is on you

No, burden is on anyone making a claim - which you are doing.
I think there is a problem with an Eddie/Thor combo because scum don't try to sweet talk their scumbuddy they've been bussing onto a mislynch wagon unless they are really terrible.
Are you calling Eddie really terrible, or are you saying that was good play for scumbuddies?

[Thor665]

Is there a wave case outside of the random theory association with me being scum?
I can't describe the case.

[frog]

Why are you think you there is a problem here? Burden is on you

Whoa, do not know what happened with that sentence. Apologies.

strongish. not lock town but unless certain things happen I won't be voting him

OK, thanks, that's helpful.

I actually do - it's why I say most reads are inherently bad.

Does it make sense to call them bad if such a great proportion of reads satisfy the word? Wrong is not necessarily bad*

I agree there is no universal way AND HAVE NEVER SAID THERE IS.
So how am I being misdirective exactly?

Misdirective in the sense that your back-and-forths with, say, rb and Eddie Cane did not go anywhere productive. The theory point was separate

My town reads and the timing of his vote.

On the Mulch wagon?

No, burden is on anyone making a claim - which you are doing.
I think there is a problem with an Eddie/Thor combo because scum don't try to sweet talk their scumbuddy they've been bussing onto a mislynch wagon unless they are really terrible.
Are you calling Eddie really terrible, or are you saying that was good play for scumbuddies?

Yes, burden is on me to show why both of you are scum, but you claiming such reads make no sense to hold simultaneously is a positive claim. Like, I can (and have, briefly) explained why I think you are both scum, but I should not have to anticipate 'but that is impossible' from the audience. I don't know what suppositions you will be bringing to others' readslists. Regardless, thank you for the explanation. I am saying neither thing; it has nt factored into my reads.

*Interesting theory stuff that might be a better conversation outside of the game

[rb]

Thor when are you going to do stuff