(my mega IC post continues to grow )Spoiler: Game review of a horrible town performance, by the mod (CTR)
This one is less of an explicit learning opportunity and more just a really interesting summary of a really badly played game.
Setup: game is modeled after the Gunpowder Treason and Plot game: Town is royalists (almost all Protestant), mafia is the group of four Catholic conspirators (win con to reach parity or kill the king and prince), and there’s a 3p Catholic priest (Father Garnet) who needs to keep Catholics alive to win (and therefore was built to scumside – he can also investigate peoples’ religion every night so he can protect his flock during the day).
Other notes:
replaced d1
was a town-aligned lyncher whose personal wincon was to find and lynch ’s role and subsequently win with the town. His main ability was to jail and torture players; targeting on night 1 removed ’s bulletproof (making him susceptible to the night kill)
was Francis Tresham, who is believed to have been the source of the infamous Mounteagle Letter that betrayed the conspiracy. He needed to deliver the letter to William Parker (by game design this enabled a powerful town ability), and then win with the mafia anyway.
Setup: game is modeled after the Gunpowder Treason and Plot game: Town is royalists (almost all Protestant), mafia is the group of four Catholic conspirators (win con to reach parity or kill the king and prince), and there’s a 3p Catholic priest (Father Garnet) who needs to keep Catholics alive to win (and therefore was built to scumside – he can also investigate peoples’ religion every night so he can protect his flock during the day).
Other notes:
ASUdevil
Nimb
Zoomzip
Niakan
Niakan
Niakan
HPW
Colonel Thomas Rainsborough wrote: Ok I simply won't hear anyone say anyone other thanas MVP. He almost single-handedly won it for the mafia and onlyNiakan(who led his troops calmly) - and even then very late in the game - worked out whatVindictuswas doing even though he kept telling them in thread what he was doing...Niakan
Things of note in the game for me:
d1
points out thatBwlvych's vote onNimbis very 'off'. It is - you lynch him for a good scum catch.Pezwarns that mafia will lynch the lurker of their choice. They do. No one callsCrunkuson a shameful volte-face at d1 end to saveAsudevil. This is a pattern - day after day the mafia take all sorts of positions all day and then vote en masse in a completely shameless way that is completely contradictory to anything they have argued in thread and are never held to account.jeanphi
- is wandering around the thread mentioning William Parker, Lord Mounteagle is a loyal Catholic and likely in the game and mentioning this as often as he dare - while also asking for religion reveal to the complete bemusement of his team.HPWas far as I can tell never notices. I am not sure he even knows he is William Parker! He certainly never works out the event he is waiting for is the Mounteagle letter. Basic research would show it is likely Tresham who will send it to him.Zandermight have caughtZanderjust on thatHPW
equally shamelessly declares thatNiakanis town at day end and thus must be the Prince but votes in a way that in effect votes to lynchBwlvych- is not held to account for this!Bwlvych
d2
thinksNiakanis mafia hence his stunt. He'll explain what he hoped would happen.ATEcoughs up 2 full roles for no reason.Constantinedoes his for no real reason. This allowsZZto out himself since he has been tortured he has lost his BP and now he fears night kill so he goes for it and just runs amok. He needs to let the mafia know he is not royal and so they should not kill him. HowNiakandoes not lynch him I will never know. WhyZZandKianwould literally vote on anyone butZZis beyond me.Niakanouts a role that is the enemy of the Protestant state. RL he would be killed just for being in England in 1605 and yet suddenly he is Mr Townie for the last 12 hours of the game day even though he admits he is not town! How an un-cced Coke or Cecil is a better lynch than him after lying and then lurking for 48 hours is a mystery.Niakansays all this and is almost universally mocked and belittled - this carries on into d3.Constantine
n2
killsZanderin effect.ZZcan seeNiakanis mafia and investigates him. Finds him Catholic. Will later lie in thread as a signal toAsudevilthat he is on his team. WhateverAsudevilsays he totally misses his chance and does say he is Catholic. He can just about fudge he didn't, but....BSAsudevil
Later on whenthen simply accusesAsudevilof lying and wants to force a dipole,Niakanwith real feeling tellsNiakanhe is a moron who deserves to die. He then goes back to role and tap dances to try and save himself andAsudevil. Extra-ordinary really.Asudevil
d3
The most interesting day by miles. Go re-read. The mafia (via) andVindictusare in open-negotiation. The latter is trying to educate the mafia as to what is going on. He basically negotiates the lynch ofNiakanbecause he believes the latter isConstantine's role given his dogged insistence ofZZto lynching the Jesuit. In this day, he tells the town thatConis scum and then manages to wheel things around to get a townie lynched. This is his way of signalling to the mafia that he knows thatVindictusandAsudevilare scum but won't lynch them.Vindictusworks it out eventually. It had also thoughtVindictuswas scum (I think it was this day) so tries his claim Garnet stunt. WhenVIAPdeclines he assumesVIAPis town as a mafia would have grabbed the fake claim. He is right aboutVIAP, but he is over-estimating bothVIAPand the scum team.VIAP
n3
Ungraciously in the extremedecides he doesn't need that wildcard given how shit the town is and tries to killVindictus. Unbelievably,Niakandeploys his ability that night and thus a townie is killed instead of a mafia nightkilling what is - in effect - one of their own. This is the final nail in the town's coffinbkbkbk
d4
At this point it is all over really.has investigatedNiakanand knows he is Catholic. Again he lies to sayVindictusis Protestant to underscore his signalling to the mafia, butVindicontinues to behave in ways that ought to get him lynched butAsudeviltap-dances some more and half the town are asleep anyway. IfNiakanwas alone with the 4 mafia he'd lynch himself.VIAPdoesn't play.ZanderbelievesWUB.Asudeviltoo. Another shameless late switch to kill the person they want in the face of an indifferent town.Bob
I think seriously about calling the game, but decide I have to play on to see ifcan win since his win is in the mafia's hands if they kill him, but he can also save himself by getting locked in the Tower. Also,Niakangets his win n4.HPW
Note how's andHPW's roles interact.Vindictusis designed to be the assassin leavingVindifree to track so that he can try and delvier the letter, but he actually has nothing to track since almost no one but mafia are out and about. I have some fun with that, but it was meant to raise scum suspicions about Tresham. They don't except...HPW
Note thatis a big scaredy cat who flinches at even one vote and becomes convinced thatjeanphiis a spy for the way he is voting onHPW.jeanphijoins in.Asudevilkeeps them calmVindi
is being fed results byAsudevilfor his fake claim, but messes them up and so stumbles into the needless dipole with his own teammate (in effect) -HPW(see above) The town has such a paucity of resources at that point though that it doesn't matter.Niakan
Lots of other stuff that I have no doubt forgotten, but others talking will remind me...
(smith note: on playdip blue is town, green is used for 3p)Colonel Thomas Rainsborough wrote:Another piece of Mechanics: The Mounteagle Letter
Obviouslyhad to deliver this letter toHPW/zanderin order to win. As soon as it was delivered Mounteagle would be vanilla. So the sooner it was delivered the less powerful it would be whereas the later it was delivered the more info there would be but it might all be too late to save the town (as was the case here). Anyway,Clindseygot 4 nights of watch/track information. He wasn't believed of course even though he was town confirmed by GM (see below). Not even he noticed this or understood that the trigger event was the Mounteagle letter - I mean, how hard is it to work that out especially after it has jsut been delivered? To me it is clear from his role PM what the trigger event is likely to be. Anyway, this mechanic was meant to simulate the betrayal of the conspiracy as per history.Clindsey
What was incredibly powerful about it is a GM message confirming that it was delivered into loyalist hands - no one noticed that this confirmedas town, but then by that stage nothing suprised me about this town or its players - not that the town could win at that point.Clindsey
Alsorealised rather late in the day that if he could get himself 'lynched' on d5 he would actually be taken to the Tower of London and thus secure from the mafia night kill! this would mean he couldn't lose as long as the mafia killedNiakanor any other loyal subject. This explains why he wanted to be lynched on d5VIAP
Overall Game Design
It was actually incredibly simple, but the town managed to completely get the worst of all worlds in the way it thought about the game
This was an incredibly accurate - and if I might say so elegant - portrayal of the Gunpowder Plot right up the Mounteagle letter. As I said, my plan was to educate. I hope some folks learnt something. Ok, I removed Charles I (I am a Colonel of the New Model Army you know and a Leveller at that) plus Gunpowder cannot actually be put on a timer or trip wire in 1605! Also, the plot wasn't..well.. a mafia game but apart from that...
This means if every townie name claimed the mafia would be in big trouble. Even if their role names were plausible minor players lots of folks would be confirmed town as surely in the game - the King, Prince of Wales, Cecil, Mounteagle, Walsh, Bromley - these roles 'had' to be in the game. So to stop this from happening the game was a protect the King game. That was what was designed to prevent the town role revealing. It was essential it kept quiet.
also the mafia were equally bemusing to me. How many times can you tell someone to read their role PMs carefully. Everyone had a fake claim ready for them to use in it. Did any of them notice? Not a bit of it.
Anyway, instead the town did this:
1) On d1 it lynched the Prince and since he was pardoned by the King that narrowed down who the King must be
2) The it blabbed half it's roles on d2 making in incredibly easy for the mafia to locate King James
This meant the town might as well grab the advantages of name claiming since it had thrown away any pretence of actually keeping the King hidden.'s role gave them one guaranteed protection of a royal. Andbkbkbkif he worked smartly could save 2 royals 100% guaranteed over the game by 'torturing them'Zoomzip
But instead...
3) The town then for reasons known only to itself thought roles like Cecil or Coke could be scum and lynched practically every townie that ever made a role claim
4) On the flipside the town never forced the mafia to name claim. Even on the final day no one was asking Catesby or Percy to explain who they were.
Circle of Trust
So, I gave the town an incredible asset - a circle of trust. Ok, it could be broken by assassination of Cecil and it was severely restricted in its ability to communicate but it meant that quickly 3 players would be able to establish via some simple codes that they were all town. That is huge. What really happened?
tries to lynch Cecil on d2 even though he knows thatVIAPknows thatATEis King because they had already exchanged codes in thread. So the gig is already up ifVIAPis scum but nevermind. Night 2 he sendsATEmisinformation designed to confuse him and then never sends another PMATE
knowsConstantineis Cecil and thus must be town, but outs both roles and then is found scummy for it or something.ATE, the King is convinced that Waad is scum - as if Cecil writing to the Lt of the Tower is writing to Fawkes or something.VIAP
as he goes down to die is accusingConstantine.ATE
I mean on the final dayis faced with himself,VIAPwho must be Mounteagle and is GM confirmed town,Clindseywho is Cecil and one other. He has a 5 in 6 chance to hit a non-townie and is still voting on a townie (not that it mattered at that point)ATE
Lyncher Role - Bromley and the d2 town suicide
With the very best of intentions this game was unbalanced whenignored his VC and did not vote to lynchZoomzipon d2.Niakanwas convinced thatNiakanwas the lyncher role given his dogged pursuit onConstantine.Niakan
made one of the biggest blunders to sabotage this town when he outed himself andConstantine’s roles unnecessarily in response toATE's d2 lie about findingNiakanguilty. However, he was absolutely right aboutATEd2 and the need to lynch him based onNiakan's behaviours. Instead he was patronised and marginalised in thread. And pointing out to him thatNiakanwas independent is more of the same. If one examines whatNiakanwas doing you will see that he was the best scum hunter in the game - problem was he was hunting them so he could 'negotiate' in thread with them and protect them at all costs since they were his 'flock' (more on this later)Niakan
The following is what I wrote toafter he exploded n2:ZZ*sighs* Oh well, what can I say...there were a couple of infamous incidents of players (allegedly) not playing to their win conditions in Rolan's games I think and so rules at that time began to include a rule of "play to your win conditions" or I will Mod-kill you. These incidents caused some anger amongst GMs and players alike as the games were unbalanced/subverted as a result.
Play to your win conditions is so basic, so fundamental - it is essential to the balance of any game design
Fortunately, these incidents passed and this rule had gone back to the redundancy I always imagined it to be. I thought it redundant here. Seemingly not.
By giving you that win condition I have tried to give you the hard-wired motive to prioritise something potentially town essential to keepin check.Niakan
What follows is essentially my GM AAR as the town is surely doomed.
is certainly playing to his win conditions and is self-evidently trying to destroy the town as quickly as possible by outing every role he can manage to help the mafia kill royalty. While also outing his role to make sure they don't kill him. Even not prioritsing your 'personal' VC I don't see how it turned into doing the opposite of the other half. How is lynching a double voting townie or Robert Cecil better than killing a confirmed no-town multiple-liar destructive behaviour Jesuit priest?Niakanis pulling exactly the same trick he tried in Crunkus's recent game when he comes in at day end to try and make the town his bitch. Creating an environment of panic and confusion after lurking for the rest of the game day. How is that trick still working? Lynch the bastard.Niakan
The town knowsis not town. Jesuit priests may not have been directly involved in this plot but they are enemies of the state. How likely are his claims that his non-town VCs are actually aligned with town VCs as he claims? If they were town aligned he'd be...town aligned and not be an enemy of the state. You personally know he is lying as he claims more than one priest in the game. Your PM tells you there is only 1. Why is he lying? Not to help the town clearly. How is his previous lie about his cop result therefore a pro-town scum trap? It cannot be. He isn't town and his claimed VCs have nothing to do with such a trick. In fact, quite the contrary since he needs to survive and he has totally exposed himself. So why is he lying?Niakan
So irrespective of all this I cannot understand how the town imagines the combination ofnot being town and his behaviour means he should not be lynched? Incredibly not a single person comments on him not being town and it is my belief that most if not all those living still think he has claimed town. He certainly went back to calling himself loyal when no one noticed. You still put him in Blue for example when he admits to being green.Niakan
Incredibly to me no one on d2 even mentioned thatHe claims his VC is for a loyal Catholic to live? What are the odds that a Catholic priest distinguishes between loyal and disloyal Catholics? His job is to look after Catholics. That's why he is hiding underground and risking his life literally every day he remains in England. He can therefore win with town or scum, but he needs catholics to live. The mafia killed a loyal catholic n1. He knows that the faction 'richest' in Catholics are the scum so if he can help them win quickly he can win. He tells a lie and disappears for 48 hours (or whatever) which is incredibly anti-town and what does the town do in a protect the King game?
outs himself andConstantine! WTF? He can callATEa liar without doing any of that. You out to validateNiakan(is this absentee somehow more important than the King that you make the King less safe to protect him?). WTF? This allows him to out himself to narrow the search further and keep him safe from the night kill. He then looks around and makes sure he goes afterNiakanwho is not outed.Kianis outed and lynched. WhatKianis doing voting on anyone butKianis beyond me. We have an uncounter-claimed Cecil - how can he possibly be scum?Niakangoes on about N0 messages when I have repeatedly confirmed no N0 actions.Kian
Everyone's role is historically accurate. If everyone claimed the mafia are screwed unless they can fake a good claim, but of course that is why this is a protect the King game to stop the town doing that. What we have instead is the town partially outing as much as it can without making any reciprocal demands on the mafia. I have literally no idea what the town is doing. It has committed suicide on d2 and I am in despair of them. The inhibitor toplaying this way was that he knows someone wants him dead. Someone who is hard-wired to want him dead if he takes liberties.Niakan
The mafia now know who the King is. They had 50:50 odds to kill him N2 but missed.had admitted to not being town. People kept talking about him being loyalist sided and relating that toNiakan's cop result.ZZpointed out he could be Godfather, but the thing was you already knew he was! He got a loyal subject result when he isn't a loyal subject. He admits that - ergo the cop result must be false.Constantine
More in a bit
