It is ambiguous - you apologised for not announcing it but you left the reasoning to be inferred. That's the ambiguity.In post 119, vonflare wrote:In fact, the wording is not ambiguous. You are misrepping me more than anythingIn post 23, vonflare wrote: Also sorry for not announcing L1
In post 121, Kairyuu wrote:I understand that Keychain was an easy wagon to hop on at the time, but how would that make it appear as if the voter was scumhunting? To me, a vote on a random wagon is just a vote on a random wagon.
Because it was accurate, or something else?In post 123, Creature wrote:I guess it's 73.
More on why he was the nextest scumread please.Creature wrote:I switched my vote to the nextest scumread after she posted something.
Being accurate isn't the factor to be town, it's more the time of use (of the read).In post 127, Keychain wrote:Because it was accurate, or something else?
Everybody else seemed not scummy.In post 127, Keychain wrote:More on why he was the nextest scumread please.
@Vax why did you ask Von this when I stated in the previous post that I was waiting for Kairyuu to answer? It gave him time to see what others thought about the wall and post something that would look good. FoSIn post 114, Vaxkiller wrote:Do you find it AI?In post 111, vonflare wrote:no, this happens in every game of great idea and its variants. someone makes a giant wall of text explaining the probability of each role corresponding to each person, ultimately resulting in no important information due to WIFOM.
Kairyuu can only post infrequently, as he stated in his initial post, so he already had time to gauge responses. And "why did you do that" was a pretty standard question after that maths wall, I asked it as well in 89.In post 133, WhyMafia wrote:waiting for Kairyuu to answer
Well you made no indication that you were actively on to something. Asking why someone did something doesn't have to come from town trying to find scum. It can be the simple question of what's the point from curiosity's standpoint.In post 134, Keychain wrote:Kairyuu can only post infrequently, as he stated in his initial post, so he already had time to gauge responses. And "why did you do that" was a pretty standard question after that maths wall, I asked it as well in 89.
It's a stretch yes, but I still wanted to gauge comments and reactions. The game seems to be stalling at the moment after all. It still sidesteps the question of why he felt the need to interfere with something I was pursuing. It's a weak correlation, but something that pinged me and that I took note of. How else should I be looking for scum? If there's not much in the game, one should dig deeper. Why are you so jittery?In post 134, Keychain wrote:Do you think that Kairyuu changed his answer to your question because of Vax's interference? I don't. Seems an odd direction to be looking for scum, when the only reason it would incriminate Vax is by being in the same faction as Kairyuu and also not believing Kairyuu had enough information to suitably respond to your question - both of which are kind of a stretch.
It wasn't intended as a defense of Kairyuu so much as an attack on WM. WM asked a question of Kairyuu to flesh out a potential scumread. This is good and useful. Vax asked von a question, also regarding Kairyuu. This is good and useful. Then instead of following up on his own question, WM FOSes Vax for also asking questions to advance the game. This is bad and doesn't make sense.In post 136, Chickadee wrote:@Keychain - why are you jumping to defend them?
Stalling the game by trying to inhibit discussion - which is what you did, by suggesting that the topic should be not spoken about until Kairyuu responded - is a tactic that only benefits scum.In post 137, WhyMafia wrote: It's a stretch yes, but I still wanted to gauge comments and reactions. The game seems to be stalling at the moment after all. It still sidesteps the question of why he felt the need to interfere with something I was pursuing. It's a weak correlation, but something that pinged me and that I took note of. How else should I be looking for scum? If there's not much in the game, one should dig deeper.
This is fair though.WhyMafia wrote: Well you made no indication that you were actively on to something. Asking why someone did something doesn't have to come from town trying to find scum. It can be the simple question of what's the point from curiosity's standpoint.
There are multiple potential factions in play. Chick being in one of them does not preclude Creature from belonging to another, so she wouldn't necessarily know his alignment. Does this change your interpretation at all?In post 131, Srceenplay wrote: I didn't like Chicks Town read on Creature.
I'm not saying I don't agree with the reasoning but it felt premature.
It seemed like someone knowing who is Town and trying to explain away why they know that.
Now you're twisting my words. I never said for people to not discuss Kairyuu, I never even said not to discuss anything. I just found it slightly scummy that Kairyuu was subtly being given a way out. In fact, it gave me more things to judge for reads, and look where we are nowIn post 138, Keychain wrote:Stalling the game by trying to inhibit discussion - which is what you did, by suggesting that the topic should be not spoken about until Kairyuu responded - is a tactic that only benefits scum.
I'm not sure if you're trying to waste our time by going back on previous content. You're subtly telling me to re-read his post, but a lack of a subsequent reply to his reply showcases that I wasn't bothered, does it not? In case it didn't, I found his response to be towny.In post 138, Keychain wrote:Why would you FOS someone for asking a related question instead of following up on that thing that pinged you about Kairyuu and the answer he gave? That would be digging deeper and I'm not sure why you haven't done it.
IDK, but this is giving me huge scum pings. Why are you looking to get town cred like that? You are blatantly lying. The only person who you got to respond to Creature, and even then, it was something that you didn't follow up on/it didn't make a huge impact. It's just making people look at you at a more positive lightIn post 138, Keychain wrote:Regarding being jittery - I am kind of a jittery person in general, but I think you might be referring my attempts to get the game out of this slow point? It worked, though. Three unique people responded in under half an hour!
Forgot this setup for a second.In post 139, Keychain wrote:In post 131, Srceenplay wrote:
I didn't like Chicks Town read on Creature.
I'm not saying I don't agree with the reasoning but it felt premature.
It seemed like someone knowing who is Town and trying to explain away why they know that.
There are multiple potential factions in play. Chick being in one of them does not preclude Creature from belonging to another, so she wouldn't necessarily know his alignment. Does this change your interpretation at all?
Can you elaborate? Strange how?Chickadee seemed strange and a good place to sort.
Checking your iso it seems this next person was WhyMafia. Can you explain your scumread here?I switched my vote to the nextest scumread after she posted something.
Could you elaborate on this? What about the timing struck you as odd, and what made you think it was scummy?Being accurate isn't the factor to be town, it's more the time of use (of the read).
Does this mean your read on him was null, or scum? If null, why does that deserve a vote? If scum, what made you think that?In post 130, Creature wrote:Everybody else seemed not scummy.In post 127, Keychain wrote:More on why he was the nextest scumread please.
I would very much appreciate a link dump to support this assertion, as I can easily see motivations from both sides. Please and thank you.But mostly because I had a plan from the beginning, to hard apply pressure to the person who scumread someone for discarding a town PR as that's the classic scum play in this game type.
You've entirely avoided my actual question to focus on an opinion I expressed alongside it. Once again, how would adding to Keychain's wagon at the time make a player appear to be scumhunting? This is the crux of my issue with your post.Is anything really random though? A choice was still made. It could mean nothing, or it could mean something. I don't really care to speculate not this further because I don't think it's going to get us anywhere at this moment. Maybe later for associations.
This is an interesting angle. The problem I see is that this is a multiball setup. It is entirely possible, assuming Chickadee as scum, for Creature to also be scum of a different faction. Randomly claiming a town read on him like that. I'm just not really seeing the motivation for a scum to take someone off of their potential target list right off the bat when that person could actually still be scum.Ok since it's slowed down.
I didn't like Chicks Town read on Creature.
I'm not saying I don't agree with the reasoning but it felt premature.
It seemed like someone knowing who is Town and trying to explain away why they know that.
Please address my case against vonflare. I feel he is quite scummy and have posted my detailed reasoning as to why. If you have a townread on him then that would imply you don't find my case to have merit, and I'd like to hear why.My town read on Von is gut. He seems genuine in his posting and doesn't seem to have a hidden agenda.
This amuses me. Appearances mean little to me. Arguments are everything. Also, if I cared how people would react to the post in question, why would I make the post in the first place?@Vax why did you ask Von this when I stated in the previous post that I was waiting for Kairyuu to answer? It gave him time to see what others thought about the wall and post something that would look good. FoS
I'm referring to posts 135, 136 and 137 in response to my 134, not sure what you're talking about? I mean I realise I was slightly wrong with my half hour thing, your post was actually two minutes outside, but I wouldn't call that a blatant lie.In post 140, WhyMafia wrote: IDK, but this is giving me huge scum pings. Why are you looking to get town cred like that? You are blatantly lying. The only person who you got to respond to Creature, and even then, it was something that you didn't follow up on/it didn't make a huge impact. It's just making people look at you at a more positive light
Indeed, here we are, with this great discussion going onWhyMafia wrote: Now you're twisting my words. I never said for people to not discuss Kairyuu, I never even said not to discuss anything. I just found it slightly scummy that Kairyuu was subtly being given a way out. In fact, it gave me more things to judge for reads, and look where we are now
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}
I'm not subtly telling you to reread anything, I'm asking why you dropped it when he answered.WhyMafia wrote: I'm not sure if you're trying to waste our time by going back on previous content. You're subtly telling me to re-read his post, but a lack of a subsequent reply to his reply showcases that I wasn't bothered, does it not? In case it didn't, I found his response to be towny.
I don't know Creature (I don't knowvonflare wrote:keychain what's your opinion of chick's townread on creature
Is this backwards? Creature moved his vote off Chick after her townread of him, suggesting he thought it was towny. Though in saying that, that's really odd, because in that case it's like she pulled out a townread of him because he voted her and he thought that was fine.In post 143, Kairyuu wrote:Could you elaborate on this? What about the timing struck you as odd, and what made you think it was scummy?Being accurate isn't the factor to be town, it's more the time of use (of the read).
Disagree. There are differences in types of roles as well. Players might have preferences between investigative, protective, killing and so on, in a way that can't be simplified down to just picking the strongest.Kairyuu wrote: Specifically, as town, discarding a town power role indicates that the other role offered must be stronger or of a different alignment. Otherwise you weaken your own faction.
What am I being defended from precisely? WhyMafia wasn't even addressing me. He asked me a question yesterday, which I also answered yesterday, and was then addressing Vax today.I'm not liking Keychain's defense of Kairyuu.
@Keychain - why are you jumping to defend them?
Hey, hey, hey. No apologizing. Walls are good. Post more walls. I don't actually have anything to discuss in this post, but this part amused me.Keychain wrote:PEdit: Whoa hey, sorry for two text walls in a row guys.
Hmm. You appear to be correct. My mistake. I'm having some difficulty determining what Creature is trying to respond to in any given post as he never quotes and almost never actually says who he's responding to.Is this backwards? Creature moved his vote off Chick after her townread of him, suggesting he thought it was towny. Though in saying that, that's really odd, because in that case it's like she pulled out a townread of him because he voted her and he thought that was fine.
I wouldn't actually call that a disagreement. If one were to have, for example, a full strength vigilante like Sparkles discarded and a standard cop as options, and was a player who preferred investigative roles, that would, to me, mean that said player would be thinking of the cop role as more useful to the town, and therefore stronger in their own hands. That's why I didn't, do something like rank the roles in terms of power, just put them in categories according to whether they were good or bad for the alignment they were part of. My assumption there completely allows for a cop to be chosen over a vig, or a doctor, or a mason, etc. The only roles that I eliminated from consideration with that discard were actively negative town roles like the miller variants, and the vanilla townies. The negative roles are obvious, as no one playing to win would take a role that harms their own win condition over something that doesn't, and the vanilla townies were disregarded as even if one never intends to use a vig shot, simply having the power in case that opinion changes is much more useful to the town than giving it up for no power at all.Disagree. There are differences in types of roles as well. Players might have preferences between investigative, protective, killing and so on, in a way that can't be simplified down to just picking the strongest.
-shrug-You seem to think along similar lines to me, which makes me paranoid. I'm going to go and see whether the posts you've made before me have been just as similar to what I've been thinking.
This line of inquiry just doesn't interest me. I'm having trouble staying focused on it, because it bores me so much.In post 143, Kairyuu wrote:You've entirely avoided my actual question to focus on an opinion I expressed alongside it. Once again, how would adding to Keychain's wagon at the time make a player appear to be scumhunting? This is the crux of my issue with your post.
My point was really more that Keychain hadn't been addressed at all.In post 146, Kairyuu wrote:What am I being defended from precisely? WhyMafia wasn't even addressing me. He asked me a question yesterday, which I also answered yesterday, and was then addressing Vax today.