Micro 731 | Scumteam UnPick II - Endgame

[RadiantCowbells]

I really wish I was in here from the get go so everyone could exclude all of my partner possibilities.

[RadiantCowbells]

@Creature can we have more time?

[RadiantCowbells]

Commknight / TheBrie
Guiltylion / DuckDoggo

still deciding what I want to do

[RadiantCowbells]

Commknight: you're voting me because there's a good chance that the slot is scum even though you're both 1) aware that my predecessor was unable to post and 2) your own chart puts me as having few scumpartner possibilities. The implication is that you think that most people in the game are likely to be town: can you explain your reads on everyone in as much detail as you can?

Furthermore this doesn't feel at all like your play in 687 or GIF's game and I feel like it's your scum meta to be more agreeable and analytical (like here) as opposed to what I've seen from you as town.

Do you agree or disagree that this game from you looks a lot more like civilization than either of those games?

[RadiantCowbells]

	acidphoenix	Vic Sage	Scylla & Char	CommKnight	GuiltyLion	Duckdoggo	TheBrie	vungrzlfrys
acidphoenix	X					O	O
Vic Sage	X	X			O		O
Scylla & Char	X	X	X	O				O
CommKnight	X	X	X	X	O		O
GuiltyLion	X	X	X	X	X	O	O
Duckdoggo	X	X	X	X	X	X	O	O
TheBrie	X	X	X	X	X	X	X
vungrzlfrys	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X

X

= Duplicate

X

= Impossibe

O

= Ruled Out

Also, can everyone give an explanation for why they made the exclusions that they did?

[RadiantCowbells]

Hi, TheBrie!

Are you scum with Scylla? >:[

[RadiantCowbells]

From my point of view based on your play and impossible team combination reasons you're locktown here.
I understand that you're going to find it really hard to trust me but I'm town this game and was really looking forward to working with you here.
I'm not necessarily 100% sure that Commknight is who I want to push today but can we talk about your read there?

[RadiantCowbells]

{Vic, TheBrie}
{GuiltyLion}
{Kingsmaker}
-null line-
{Scylla}
{Duck}

Reserving judgement on Commknight.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't really have a case besides that this sort of doesn't feel like what I'd expect from you.

I'll wait to hear what you have to say.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm town. I'm not getting lynched and I'm not lynching King off of policy for the redacted scumteams.

[RadiantCowbells]

Do you have anything to say about anything that my slot or King's slot has actually done today?

[RadiantCowbells]

I didn't even read the people who could potentially be scum with me. Further, if I were scum I'd want to keep the people who couldn't be scum with me alive because it reduces the odds of me getting lynched later in the game if I have less scumpartner possibilities.

Do you disagree with any of the reads that I have? If so, why?

[RadiantCowbells]

Your argument is that I'm scum because if I'm scum then my scumpartner would be in my townlist: which is kind of weird with your experience with me given that I only didn't bus in Civ because it was townsided AF and Fitz was in my scumpool the entire game in 687. It's also an illogical way to play the game because keeping people who can't be scum with me alive makes me less likely to be scum.

And no RC. YOU ARE BEING LYNCHED. This time there is no me helping you and your buddy win by lynching another faction (That isn't here this time for you to cop out in behind). You're flip #1, King is flip #2.

TheBrie and GuiltyLion are off the pool for both lynches (until we get a scum flip) and lynching me when I'm trying to actually peg scum is just stupid.

Right you need to die regardless of faction.

VOTE: Commknight

[RadiantCowbells]

This is way more what I was expecting and I can believe that you might be town here but if you're going to push lynches on me and King for setup spec reasons you need to go.

And RC, if you really want to fight it, who should be the two lynched. Keep in mind TheBrie and GuiltyLion are OFF the table. Who are the two you'd pick?

(In fact, everyone should do this little answer, which two would everyone pick and WHY?). My argument comes from probability plus the fact they haven't done anything townie in my eyes yet where as most everyone else has to some degree.

Why would I want to lynch my two highest townreads exactly?

[RadiantCowbells]

Yes except that you have seen my play enough to full well know that I don't make opportunistic wagon selections. I happen to agree with the general sentiment of the game.

When have I ever as scum replaced in and started taking convenient reads on convenient wagons? I universally replace in and try to start something new. I'll wait.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC is one of the easiest players I have in terms of reading their alignment right. They throw quite the tantrum when things aren't going their way regardless of alignment. But it's easy to see past that and see the scum motivation as well. When both flips are town (myself and whoever else he pushes), he'll claim something stupid and sucker you in for a 3rd mislynch and a perfect mafia victory because he'll make sure to leave the number of possibilities as open as he can keep them.

You hard townread me the only game that you've seen me as scum.

I don't think that you're scum here but I will have no qualms about policy lynching you.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Commknight

Here you go =]

[RadiantCowbells]

Commknight ladies and gentlemen.

[RadiantCowbells]

Here let me go dig up a quote from that game where I called the entire game state as is and which of the two would result in town losing because of poor play.

Right you said that it MIGHT be fitz/rc. I'll go find some quotes from the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Spoiler: Commknight

@RC, I'll let you handle Realeo. He may be town, but his reads are shit. If he goes into reading people with the assumption I'm mafia, he's already on the wrong path and will hence read them wrong as well.

Also both Vedith and Dunn are scum. But I think one is WW and the other is mafia. If our goal is to lynch Werewolf today, it might be Vedith. Dunn seems to try to set me up as looking like mafia (and ultimately being obvious about it) so I don't think he's a wolf.

What's the preferred lynch today? WW or mafia? Or anything not town...

I guess it's wolf. But if it's mafia I'm not going to complain too much. It just means whichever faction we flip, if wolves kill town tonight and they have 2 left, they'll be top priority to be lynched tomorrow and the next day. But if mafia have 2 alive and wolves hold their shot, mafia would become priority tomorrow.

Vedith/Realeo mafia with KMD/Dunn as WW?

I think we need Fitz and RC to vote up Vedith, because Dunn is gonna be a troll for the rest of the game and Vedith ain't gonna vote himself. Potential buddy Realeo won't either.

Commknight

if you are mafia I want you to hardclaim and we will not lynch you today and if we have the opportunity to kingmake we'll give you the win.
If we end up lynching wrong because I'm making bad assumptions about your alignment then you will lose as well.

You really think I'm mafia or WW? I'm just gonna let ya fucking mislynch if you're that much of a fool. Dunn pushed me. Vedith and kmd are after me. We need to lynch a wolf today and Realeo is questionable. I'm legit thinking town is RC, Fitz and myself. But the real mafia gotta speak up because if we mislynch *AT ALL* today, both town and mafia loses.

Right now:
Realeo - Town/WW - leaning WW
Vedith - Mafia/WW
Radiant Cowbells - Town/WW - leaning Town
kmd - Town/Mafia/WW
havingfitz - Town/WW - leaning Town

I think the lynchpool needs to be in Realeo, Vedith and kmd. I think kmd might be the mafia because the mafia didn't submit a list and kmd was one of the quiet ones. So Realeo or Vedith today would be ideal with Vedith being the top choice. Unless he HARD CLAIMS MAFIA.

Alright here's what we're going to do.

Vedith

If you haven't hardclaimed mafia in the next 24 hours I am lynching you.

This I can get behind. Add my threat of lynching you to it. Which means if 2 others agree, you're fucked without a hard-claim Vedith.

Votecount FINAL

• (LYNCH)

  Dunnstral
  - Vedith, Realeo, havingfitz, RadiantCowbells
  
  (1)

  CommKnight
  - Dunnstral
  
  (0)
  Realeo
  
  (2)

  Vedith
  - CommKnight, kmd4390
  
  (0)
  RadiantCowbells
  
  (0)
  kmd4390
  
  (0)
  havingfitz
  
  
  (0)
  Not Voting
  
  With
  7
  alive, it's
  4
  to lynch.
  Deadline in
  (expired on 2017-07-10 23:00:00)
  (July 10^th).
  
  
  Mod Notes:
  Mod will be V/LA this weekend. Apologies if things go a little slower.

Even on D4 KMD was not on mafia wagon. I don't think he's wolf, he'd have gladly voted Dunn over Vedith if that were the case.

VOTE: Vedith

Honestly this vote count speaks louder than the some crud scum will make up today to survive.

RC is town or mafia. Not wolf.
KMD is town or mafia. Not wolf.

That leaves fitz, Vedith and Realeo for wolves. I can bet you Vedith is indeed wolf. But who his buddy is out of fitz and Realeo is something we'll have to figure out tomorrow. If mafia doesn't work with town today him and his faction loses. So Vedith lynch is the best lynch.

Note that I was wolf, not mafia. Please selectively quote the post where you said that me and Fitz might be scum but never followed up on because it wasn't your actual reads.
You're expecting me to take your read on me seriously but I'm not going to do that when you're scumreading me to prove a point.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't know what you're trying to prove here but get over yourself.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm concerned that Commknight realized that I was looking for him to go full idiot mode deathtunnel and played up the repeated insistence that I'm scum to look like idiot town and get written off.

There was a huge tone change from 'haunting me if I push a lynch on him' to rando full blown deathtunnel and he's bad but this level of repeated claiming victory with nothing behind it might be beyond even him.

[RadiantCowbells]

The thing is that this whole pushing everything based on setup spec feels really manipulative and less just brazenly bad like I'm used to seeing from Town!Commknight.
And he's usually more /something/ and I feel like he would at least reconsider because I know what he's looking for from my play and I (from his point of view) should have been really fucking towny this game.

And like I could fake this no sweat but last game he jumped on me for attempting to control the game. This game I haven't because I'm still in game solve mode and I don't get why he's jumping me here. Like I understand RC paranoia and trying to knock me down a peg because that's a constant in my life but this sort of feels different. This feels really calculated.

My vote sticks. I think this is scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Vic, I believe you're town but I don't believe it with sufficient confidence to avoid voting my scumreads when you've been defending CK from very early on in a way I disagree with and make perfect sense as a buddy.

I also don't think that Kingsmaker/Commknight is outside the realm of possibility. It's obvious based on the way that Commknight played, regardless of alignment, that he knew my wagon wasn't going to get traction.
Him being scum with Kingsmaker makes perfect sense: pushes his buddy then when things get hairy jumps off the wagon and tries to instigate a personal conflict with me that he thinks that I'll townread.
You're making a flawed assumption that he believes that he can actually get his consecutive RC/Kingsmaker lynches- we're obviously not scum together, but I don't disqualify Comm/Kings.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like you don't sit there announcing 'yeah you're not gonna follow me but RC is scum.' '100% confident rc is scum.' 'RC isnt getting out of this' if you expect the wagon you're on to actually get lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

Further: if Comm is town neither of us is getting nightkilled. I'm town. At some point Comm needs to die before any potential LyLo situations. Why not now?

[RadiantCowbells]

And bluntly Comm needs to be taught a lesson. I don't want this happening next game I join with him. He should die.

[RadiantCowbells]

I have slight reservations with CK's plan.

First, only RC's scumflip puts us in autowin territory. The others would still have more partner combinations open to them than remaining myslynches.

Second, basically everyone has a paranoia outcome from this proposed plan where we lose. For me it's S&C/GL. For basically everyone else its me/S&C. In fact, S&C is the only one for whom this negates every possible pairing.

I want Brie and GL to weigh in on this for me. Cowbells anger is coming across as genuine, which is my only real reason not to lynch him at this point. DD has disappeared since my most recent reasoning post. My gut screams at me to lynch the scummiest player first, but CK's not wrong about this narrowing down the field immensely.

Cowbells

, why does CK/King make sense to you?

As it is, I'd support a deadline lynch on Dogs or Cowbells. And I will be here till deadline.

You'd support a lynch on me over fucking Commknight?

[RadiantCowbells]

Where did I become a scumread for you?

I'm actually feeling pretty good about RC. Not sure if that's an alignment thing with him or just that his game has improved since the last time I've read him, but it's the plain truth. Still most happy with a D1 dog lynch, but I want to take a minute to make sure we don't have a gamebreaking strategy.

Sounds like you're townreading me

Cowbells anger is coming across as genuine

Still sounds like a townread

which is my only real reason not to lynch him at this point.

????????????

[RadiantCowbells]

Why are you trying to pseudo clear CK off of a townflip that has really nothing to do with him?
Why are you townreading him in the first fucking place?
Where did I enter the scumpool and become your second favourite lynch when everything you've said about me indicates a townread?

[RadiantCowbells]

Honestly, I'm really expecting a DD/CK scumteam at this point. If I'm wrong, CK will be useful given his level of activity. I can't say that DD would be.

You're expecting a DD/CK team but you're refusing to vote CK. Why is that vic sage?

[RadiantCowbells]

Did anyone else notice that Vic Sage brings up the idea of a gamebreaking strategy, then in Commknight's next posts he comes up with a 'gamebreaking strategy' that coincidentally involves not touching him or Vic?

[RadiantCowbells]

This tells me we can pseudo clear CK by lynching Doggo. If Doggo flips scum we have 1 scum in 3 people and 3 lynches. If he flips town, CK becomes conftown, or near enough to not matter. That means the CK wagon blows.

Would be a shame if Duckdoggo flipped town and CK became conftown, huh?

[RadiantCowbells]

Comm has been calling Vic scummy all game but never voted there either. He even said that he was the most likely to be scum from his point of view but didn't vote there

[RadiantCowbells]

What's that supposed to me?

Comm is going to vote me tomorrow if we don't lynch scum today. As a result, he needs to die, regardless of his alignment. But looking back I think he did what he did because he knew that was sort of what I was looking for and it feels really fake in hindsight with the way he's repeatedly just declaring me scum rather than pushing anything against me.

Do you seriously think Vic could be scum, RC? Cause I might not fully trust him, but he seems like town. At least he did until you pointed out his recent inconsistencies regarding you and CK.

I did not scumread Vic sage until this came up, no, but him being scum makes a lot of sense associatives wise and if he's as good as he claims to be I wouldn't expect to scumread him immediately.
I'm not saying Vic is lock scum but there's a lot of reason not to trust him refusing to lynch Commknight and I will not bring him to endgame if Comm flips scum.

Could you explain that? I feel like there's some degree of sarcasm and a level of meaning I'm not picking up at my current level of brain function.

So, say they're scumpartners. Vic uses Comm being scumread to help push a lynch on Duck as the obvious scum partner. Then lynches elsewhere saying that we'll know if Comm is scum based on Duck's flip. Then they flip town so Vic has an excuse to refuse to scumread Comm tomorrow even though he hasn't really given reasons to townread them and claimed that he thought the scumteam included Commknight now. And it's tantamount to a scumclaim that he's refusing to vote Comm but will vote me even though Comm is supposedly the most likely person to be scum and everything he has said about me indicated a townread.

I also want to point out that you remember last game where I declared you obvtown early and just hard pocketed you off of it?
That's exactly what CommKnight's been doing to you this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

So I did. There's a difference in the scenarios though. You're locked as not scum with the people that I think are scum and I have experience reading you that he doesn't.
I can't make you believe that I'm town because anything that I can do here I could do as scum, but 6/8 of the time I'm scum and my reads are great as town.
Please just trust me here and you'll be vindicated later. I'm town and I'm pretty sure that I have this game almost solved.

I'm assuming that last bit was sarcasm, for the record.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're still not saying who else you want to lynch for the second lynch RC, stop avoiding please and have the balls to actually fully address what I am asking of you.

Can you vote Comm with me?

I'm not really feeling the Duck wagon anymore after Vic tried to tie Comm's alignment to theirs.

[RadiantCowbells]

I've made a case. If your reaction to me being in game is to not trust me and ignore my reads as a result then you'll never win with me as town.
So it's difficult when all I can really say is trust me but that's all I'm really able to say. I'm town this game and I just want to win.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I get it. I totally do. But if your response to that loss to me as scum is to never trust me again that means that we're going to lose a lot more games together instead of just that one.
I get screwed over a shitton as town because people refuse to trust me and it's cost me a ton of games but it hasn't really made me start losing games as scum, as our last game can attest.

I honestly wish I never started tryharding as scum because it's made the game as both alignments far less pleasant but there's not much I can do to undo that now.

[RadiantCowbells]

I know that I'm town: why should I give a shit what your setup speculation claims is the best lynch when it's based off of the possibility existing that I flip scum when I know that to be 0%?

[RadiantCowbells]

I find it hilarious that you're trying to use setup arguments to push me rather than anything that I've done in game, except for calling me blanket "anti-town" for wanting you lynched for being scummy.

[RadiantCowbells]

So Comm isn't necessarily advocating the only optimal play, just the one he likes best.

This is correct and this is why you should help me lynch him.

[RadiantCowbells]

Kingsmaker/Scylla, for example, removes 9 scumteam possibilities as well.
He's selectively focusing on the lynches that benefit him and pushing them as universally beneficial when

1) there's multiple ways to cut down the same # of people but he's hyperfocusing on the people who are threats to him

and

2) no one who isn't literally fucking terrible would play the game based on eliminating #s of scumteams unless there was a way to get the game to autowin or close to it.

6 scumteam possibilities is a 16.66% chance of town winning and given the actual lylo odds of town only voting correctly two days in a row is far worse.
no decent player would advocate the play that Comm is pushing and I find it sketchy as hell that Vic is actually taking it seriously when he thinks he's good enough to be critical of my past play.

[RadiantCowbells]

So there's actually a difference between removing 10 and removing 9 but it's essentially irrelevant, a shitty as hell way to play the game, and meaningless given that I am 100% town.
It's scum looking for an excuse to push shitty mislynches and nothing more.
There's no way that town who thought I was scum would be pushing to lynch both me and someone who couldn't be scum with me in a the same day phase either.

[RadiantCowbells]

Vic sage was online, posted elsewhere, posted nothing in response to me calling him out.

Commknight has to be the lynch today and it takes 5/6 of the town voting him to lynch him. If you're town fucking vote him.

[RadiantCowbells]

Votecount Vic.1

Votecount Unofficial

[3] CommKnight - Kingmaker, GuiltyLion, RadiantCowbells L-2
[2] Duckdoggo - Vic Sage, Scylla and Charybdis L-3
[1] RadiantCowbells - CommKnight, L-4
[1] Scylla and Charybdis - TheBrie L-4
[1] Vic Sage - Duckdoggo L-4
[0] TheBrie
[0] GuiltyLion
[0] Kingmaker

[0] Nolynch

Not voting:

8 players are alive, therefore 5 votes is the majority.

Deadline: (expired on 2017-07-31 01:52:12)

I noticed that RC asked for pick reasons. There's a vague chance vung is mastin, two hydras, and GL is the only one here who I was sure I'd played with previously pre-replacements.

This is correct.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you're town, just vote Comm.

[RadiantCowbells]

There's no way that it's this hard to get votes on town!Comm

[RadiantCowbells]

Carca I see you on. You guys are voting Vic? well he has one obvious scumbuddy and you should vote them.

[RadiantCowbells]

I will make the same request of you as I made of commknight: tell me when I've ever replaced into a game as scum and taken a bunch of convenient scumreads.

Also, there was already a pretty good chance that either CK or DD would have gone through at the time that RC replaced into the game and I think if he were scum and they were both town then he would have scumread someone generally townread like me or Vic and made a bunch of noise about that while whiteknighting the existing mislynches.

This is in a sense predictable but it's also correct. Even with a meta of doing so as scum people will still always be like 'BUT IT WAS SO EASY HE WOULD HAVE JUST DONE IT' and some other bullshit and it's just way better to come in swinging an unpopular opinion. At the very least I'd want to keep someone widely scumread around to mislynch in the endgame.

[RadiantCowbells]

I feel like

really sure that if CK flips scum we lynch Vic and win

[RadiantCowbells]

Removing Scylla/Vic from contention

[RadiantCowbells]

If Vic is scum in the game he's scum with Comm or Kings.

I don't want to lynch him today but if Comm flips scum and I die and you don't lynch him you're fucking dumb.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think I want to lynch Lalaladucks

[RadiantCowbells]

S&C why did you go from attacking Comm for locking in Brie based on setup spec to using the same reasoning to townread her?

Is Scylla because they can't be scum with Comm?

Let me rephrase that: I don't think that Scylla/Vic can be scum. I was looking through scumpartners for Vic.

[RadiantCowbells]

Comm was scum, yeah.

[RadiantCowbells]

how am I at 56 posts already

[RadiantCowbells]

We can lynch all 3 of {Vic/Kings/Ducks} and assuming that I am trusted to endgame, we have autowin.

I don't want to lynch Vic today for various reasons so that leaves Ducks/Kings and of the pair I think that ducks is more likely to be scum, even if Comm was actually town.

VOTE: Ducks

[RadiantCowbells]

Do you think that me/Commknight was a bus?

[RadiantCowbells]

If Comm is town I'm not making endgame.

[RadiantCowbells]

Scylla, anything to add?

[RadiantCowbells]

Technically she can also be town with me but fair. I don't think that you're scum at any rate.

[RadiantCowbells]

Can I get a readslist?

[RadiantCowbells]

Pretty sure that Duck flips town and we end up having to lynch Vic tomorrow fwiw

but this is the lynch I'm happiest making right now

[RadiantCowbells]

Sorry, would you rather we lynch you?

I'm giving you a stay of execution because Comm hasn't actually flipped but I don't have a problem lynching you today instead.

[RadiantCowbells]

The implication is that you think Kings is scum on a team that does not include Dunk. What scumteams are you worried about?

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm going to give the replacement a chance.

[RadiantCowbells]

In what ways is Dunk not an ideal lynch?

[RadiantCowbells]

What Kings scumteams are you worried about?

[RadiantCowbells]

@both of you: which Dunk scumteams exactly are you writing off and why?

[RadiantCowbells]

Vic doesn't want Duck/Comm lynched. What would the picks situation be like with both of them removed?

[RadiantCowbells]

	acidphoenix	Vic Sage	Scylla & Char	CommKnight	GuiltyLion	Duckdoggo	TheBrie	vungrzlfrys
acidphoenix	X					O	O
Vic Sage	X	X			O		O
Scylla & Char	X	X	X	O				O
CommKnight	X	X	X	X	O		O
GuiltyLion	X	X	X	X	X	O	O
Duckdoggo	X	X	X	X	X	X	O	O
TheBrie	X	X	X	X	X	X	X
vungrzlfrys	X	X	X	X	X	X	X	X

X

= Duplicate

X

= Impossibe

O

= Ruled Out

Also, can everyone give an explanation for why they made the exclusions that they did?

5/6 of

RC
Scylla
Vic
Kings
GL

tomorrow

Brie probably HAS to be the overnight nightkill in any universe

RC/Scylla is impossible
Brie is basically unlynchable, especially if either me or scylla die
GL is more townread than Vic

versus

RC
Scylla
TheBrie
Vic
Duck

I can't be with Scylla
GL can't be with Vic/Duck*/Brie so only potential scumpartners with me/Scylla which is the same as Brie and he's probably objectively townier so he dies

I'm not really seeing the scum motivation to push for this change unless he's scum with duck and doing some sort of white flag gambit?

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually there is motivation if both of them plus comm are town
if scum is Vic/Scylla lynching Kings today lets them (pushes them to?) kill a more threatening townie and duck is probably easier to lynch in LyLo
If Comm is scum he still has to get me lynched at some point and that's going to be the daunting task, though with a Comm scumflip Kings would also be very difficult to lynch.
whereas Duck is easy to lynch for the rest of the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

If Vic/Comm are town
RC is town

{Duck, Scylla, Brie, GL, Kings}

Duck/Scylla
Duck/GL
Scylla/Brie
Scylla/GL
Scylla/Kings
GL/KIngs

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey, woke up from a hangover and off to a birthday so I'll keep this short. I'm pretty confident Comm was a scum and due to their individual scumminess, the fact Comm avoided speaking about or voting Doggo while they were an easy target and also the fact that Doggo looks like they pretty much gave up on this, so - VOTE: DuckDoggo

I'll come back tonight to check on the thread and iso everyone to get more reads in case İ'm wrong on one or both of Comm&Doggo - but I don't really feel like I'm wrong.

Don't think this is the post he makes if he actually doesn't want Duck to get lynched. I'll write this off

[RadiantCowbells]

Duck/kings waas impossible anyway lol

[RadiantCowbells]

Scylla essentially clearing me in 281 still feels like scum would have said it differently with some sort of 'if RC is actually town.'

Scylla/Ducks I'd buy I guess. Scylla's still calling Ducks scum even though that lynch is autoloss for them but hasn't actually voted them.
Ducks/GL I'm writing off. there's no way that GL L-1s them and keeps the vote in autoloss when he's widely townread and can vote pretty much anywhere here.
Scylla/TheBrie I'll discuss at some other time.

Scylla/GL Scylla called GL town from very early on in the game but never explained it. almost never discusses them. least discussed person in the game by far from that slot.
Both of them excluded one scumteam from the other,

Gambler's fallacy is assuming that future probabilities are influenced/affected by past outcomes of independent events. So I don't see a Gambler's fallacy in CK's post

However, the way he retaliated with a vote and a "last time someone said that they were scum" argument is terrible. S&C looks town to me, and CK didn't actually address any of the real substance of S&C's argument/post, instead latching onto a (incorrectly applied) buzzword

feels kinda chainsawy and there's no explanation of this townread that immediately puts S&C into the top echelon of GL's townblock. spends a lot of time questioning scumreads on S&C but then in 147 they're no longer a top townread but not in the lynchpool. 288 could be a lazy scum vote on a town wagon.

[RadiantCowbells]

@ Scylla/GL can I get a walk through of your reads on each other throughout the game?

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually there is motivation if both of them plus comm are town
if scum is Vic/Scylla lynching Kings today lets them (pushes them to?) kill a more threatening townie and duck is probably easier to lynch in LyLo
If Comm is scum he still has to get me lynched at some point and that's going to be the daunting task, though with a Comm scumflip Kings would also be very difficult to lynch.
whereas Duck is easy to lynch for the rest of the game.

This is dumb. If it was Scylla/me I would have hammered DD and lynched you tomorrow. It would have been easy, and I would have won. There's no reason for me not to do that.

You know better than this and I know better than this. I don't think this is AI but cut the crap.

[RadiantCowbells]

My whole reason for suspecting you is that I felt like it was disingenuous for, with your stated reads, you to be willing to lynch me and adamantly against lynching CK. I came to the conclusion that there's not a whole lot to be gained from it unless you're scum with Commknight, but I could still see Scylla/Vic. And good luck mislynching me in this lobby.

Clearly scum me who is aligned with CK is pretty boned and needs to lynch outside of {me, dog, KM} but that's a whole other bag of worms, and the reason I'm proposing KM over you or S&C.

Scum you is pretty boned but your best option here is to lynch KM and hope that you can get Brie to paranoia lynch me in 3 way. If KM isn't dead you have to lynch both of us, which isn't happening.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not completely unable to see it coming from town but there's something really sketchy about you preferring to lynch me over the person that you think is scum anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

Even if he flips town I have zero regrets over lynching him. I don't care how much content he produces if he's trying to lynch me because I theoretically have the most possible scumpartners.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why is Scylla/TheBrie dumb?

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean I do think that Comm is scum and I still think he flips scum well over 50% of the time. But he's policy tunneled me over a series of games to try to prove that he could handle my scum game and yet I still ended up endgaming him as scum with his vote on the wagon that lost the game. And he's still doing it. And that to me is not a thing that should be happening and if I have to lynch him as town to make a point I have no issues doing it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Scylla's only exclusions are Comm and I. Lynch one, nightkill one, and you've got a clean slate in terms of partners after a Scylla flip.

If I were scum with TheBrie I would have told them to push on me if I was ever a thing.

Do you think that the interactions are specifically not SvS or do you think that TheBrie just wouldn't push her buddy?

[RadiantCowbells]

I think they're specifically not SvS. Also, bussing in this setup is stupid. Like, Brie softpushing Scylla would be fine. Brie trying to get me to pay attention to specific things about Scylla that were bugging me but that I wasn't actually pursuing doesn't.

If I were in Brie's position I would bus the shit out of them and nightkill the non-partner possibilities and take the free win.

If I were scum with Brie right now I would have told her to push on me if it ever came up. I'd probably even go further and try to lynch Duck/Scylla on day 1 then get Brie to lynch me tomorrow and leave something like Kings/Comm in endgame. You're making assumptions of people not bussing that don't make sense with the gamestate.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think Brie is scum ftr. I don't think Scylla is scum either. and I think scum is way more likely to look like Scylla/GL or you/Comm than Brie/Scylla.
But that's nowhere near the point where I'd say no it's not a thing.

Like idk man I don't think that the interactions are explicitly not SvS.

[RadiantCowbells]

Specifically on D1 before all of the scumpair claims were in AND before everyone had posted. Also, not crusading the lynch. Trying to push someone else into crusading the lynch. Notice that Brie didn't have original arguments for why S&C was scum. She was sheeping what I said, while I was voting elsewhere. It's just not what bussing looks like, even discounting that bussing in this set up is a great way to lose the game.

I think that it's exactly what bussing would look like here. I wouldn't expect TheBrie to lead on her partner but if her partner got wagoned I'd expect them to join.
And again there's nothing specifically bad about bussing here when in the endgame everyone who isn't possibly scum with her partner will be gone.

If Scylla's scum I'd say it's with

GL
Kings = You
TheBrie
Duck

Do you really think GL/Scylla is possible? I'm note sure I follow this. Your first point in the post seems to indicate a town lean on Scylla, but you're obviously not continuing in that. Which is probably smart. But I'd like to understand what you're saying here.

GL hasn't been discussed much by anyone. Which is almost worrying. I still TR him, but that's all based off the beginning of the game. Lately he's been rather quiet and I'd like to know if that's normal fro him. Does anyone know?

Yes, I am townreading both of them but I am far more confident in associatives than general reads and neither of them would I classify as townreads that I'm fully confident in.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I don't expect both scum to be someone that I'm immediately scumreading. I think it's somewhat unlikely that I would be wrong on both of my townreads but then again I did initially scumread Scylla and the Comm situation may have skewed my reads. I'm not going to not look into a really bad set of associatives because I think that people involved are town unless I feel like super confident that they're town, which I don't. Not without a Comm flip.

[RadiantCowbells]

Okay korts lol

[RadiantCowbells]

I agree though, sort of like last game where Mulch flooding prevented anyone else from getting a word in. I'll stop posting for a while.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah I don't really see us going anywhere else today.

I'd be fine with a hammer.

[RadiantCowbells]

lol that was terrible

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Duckdoggo

[RadiantCowbells]

RC why did you hammer without hearing from S&C on either of our questions towards them

I was not at all expecting a double town flip and Carca's last posts were awful.
Sorry I fucked this up pretty bad.

SC+Brie
SC+GL
SC+Kings
Kings+GL

Right now I feel like it's GL+SC but I don't really have time to work on anything

don't vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

GL what's the point of that question?

[RadiantCowbells]

the one you asked me

but sure let's hear both

[RadiantCowbells]

well here's where I'm at

TheBrie kills me last night. She's a lot less lynchable with only one possible scumpartner and I'm positive that she would have been terrified of me. I don't think Scylla prevents that kill to kill Vic. That clears her fmpov

so that's 2/3 of you scylla and kings and fmpov GL/Kings is the scumteam that I am least feeling right now but I guess it's theoretically possible

[RadiantCowbells]

ehh I'm going to take that back

[RadiantCowbells]

(the gl/kings thing: I don't think Brie is scum.)

[RadiantCowbells]

My concern is that I feel like GL+Scylla shoots me for presenting the possibility. Vic was also most interested in Kings: why wouldn't they just shoot me (kill doesn't raise questions because RC) and leave Vic thinking Kings is scum?
Of the other two teams, GL+Kings and Scylla/Kings I can both see: of the two I think that Scylla/Kings is likelier because I suspect that you wouldn't open the day by calling out something town your partner did.

So I did consider speedvoting at the start of the day and that's not a scumtell at all but I would have voted Scylla rather than you.

[RadiantCowbells]

If it's Scylla/GL I was kept around because you thought I could mislynch me, not because you planned to fool me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ignoring the argument based on her scumteam possibility she's not actually that towny? the towniest thing about her play is something that would only really make sense to me, but I'm pretty confident she's town nonetheless.

[RadiantCowbells]

I was planning on simply not stating it because I suspect Brie will scumread me because I initially used this argument when I was scum but I don't think that Brie votes Duck yesterday.

From her POV as scum there's 3 town tunneling Duck and the counterwagon is Kings and both are totally fine for her interests so there's not really a reason to get involved? Like either wagon is fine and she's explicitly said she doesn't support the one wagon.

Whereas I feel like as town she would be more inclined to follow me and that's sort of what she's been doing? Like on Comm it could be scum using it as an excuse but wrt Duck she has no reason to place that vote as scum. Both lynches were fine and she could have just stayed off the wagon and I suspect that's what she as relatively newb scum would intend to do. Her stated views opposed it and scum are usually like by the book about their views and I really don't think scum her votes him there.

Like you could argue it as a scumtell but I think it's actually the strongest reason that I have to think that she's town tbh.

[RadiantCowbells]

Actually I've sort of gone backwards and S&C/GL might be the scumteam option I consider least likely?
Not because GL's pushing him, I would absolutely bus in this situation, but because me not being the nightkill doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
I specifically called that scumteam out, GL in general I don't think would want to keep me around, I have a good guess as to one member of S&C and they'd want me dead, and me being alive with that scumteam is just weird?

GL/Kings on the other hand doesn't kill me, they kill Vic. I already scumread S&C [whom GL seems to be leading on], and Vic independently scumread Kings, called out GL near the end, and townread me and seemed to TR scylla.
Kings/Scylla might think that I'm mislynchable or just less of a threat? killing me mandates a TheBrie kill as well I guess so this prevents them from clearing someone.

Actually TheBrie might be a good reason for any S&C scumteams to not kill me: they might have expected her to paranoia tunnel me and killing me makes Brie close to conftown.

Idk but I really don't think that S&C+GL leave me alive which makes Kings the default scum

[RadiantCowbells]

???
I don't think that either of you planned to fool me in endgame and neither of you have played in a way that suggests that you did.
GL pushing on you and you flipping scum makes me the obligatory nightkill so maybe the plan wasn't to mislynch me but I was never being brought to 3 way, and if GL is bussing you it's clearly not because you were expecting to fool me, no?
Sorry if your ego took a hit there [blank] but if my default is to scumread you I don't think I'm going to randomly start townreading you because you're scum and you shouldn't either.

Who do you think that I'm scum with?

[RadiantCowbells]

I've done my best to

[RadiantCowbells]

Whatever dude if you're town do what you want.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: S&C

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: RC

RC claiming that I was hoping to mis lynch him then back peddles.
I'm happy here.

-Scylla

I said that if the scumteam were GL+S&C you had to have seen me as an at least viable mislynch to leave me alive (or GL just planned to hardbus you and nightkill me.)
I did go back and decide that was way less likely but you're labelling me evolving my thoughts on the game 'backpeddling': would it be townier if I never reevaluated?
Furthermore in Kings + S&C I think it's pretty likely that you don't shoot me because shooting me mandates shooting Brie tomorrow and bring Vic/GL to endgame.

Sorry if your ego took a hit there [blank] but if my default is to scumread you I don't think I'm going to randomly start townreading you because you're scum and you shouldn't either.

oh I guess this does imply RC knows who you are

I do know who Scylla is. I have no idea who Charybda is.

oh I guess this does imply RC knows who you are

RC knows I kill him in this situation as scum 10 out of 10 times.
And yet tried to play it off as I wanted to mis lynch him.

I mean you're trying to mislynch me now so seems like a pretty decent theory to me.

so you think it's RC/Kings? Why'd you vote RC first?

I know RC is scum. I think King is most likely his partner.

-Scylla

What part of anything indicates that King is most likely my partner?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll unvote if S&C unvotes but they're twisting my words to an incredible extent to justify their push on me and it feels really fake.
Also, this sort of hyperaggression with pushes to the point of speedvoting LyLo is far more characteristic of their scum game and their town game, where they are (relatively) far more docile.

[RadiantCowbells]

Is Charybda skitter30?

[RadiantCowbells]

You have a partner and I'm also not beyond 100% sure that you're scum but if you're going to force a 1v1 then I'll win the 1v1.
I know for a fact you do shit like this as scum. I know for a fact that this isn't your towngame as I remember it from when we actually played together but I don't care whether that's changed if you're voting me anyway.
It's not my job to convince you that I'm town and if you're going to try to use me trying to get you to not vote me like an idiot at the start of the day as a reason to get other people to vote me, you can go fuck yourself.

[RadiantCowbells]

i saw your layla deathtunnel in the game that I modded. gtfo

[RadiantCowbells]

and man I don't care. I'm town. if you voted me and you're town that's on you and I really don't give a shit.

[RadiantCowbells]

I see now. Charybdis did post a few times early on and I never quite realized it was just you after that. Should have noticed. But I don't like your play either way.

I don't care if you like it, I'm still right.
And the next person to vote RC I'll town lock for the next lynch, just because Scum won't be bussing that easily.

-Scylla

lol

@Kings: what are your reads at?

[RadiantCowbells]

GL/TheBrie as well.

[RadiantCowbells]

You guys gonna play the fucking game?

[RadiantCowbells]

GL, would you have wanted to nightkill me over Vic?

[RadiantCowbells]

Do you really think if Vic wasn't the nightkill that you would have been the shot over me?
Also I just want to point out something that I thought of: S&C deathtunneling me is probably the best play as scum. Since I'm guaranteed not scum with him if he's clearing me I was cleared anyway.
It also gives him the potential to win without handicapping his win percentage tomorrow by being mostly null indicative with respect to who his partner is (although I will say that if Brie's his partner, this isn't his play.)
And he sorta has to deal with me anyway so why not try to mislynch me before I'm the obligatory nightkill target?

With that in mind I'm gonna UNVOTE: because I don't think I'll have issues lynching S&C today but I don't want to see him selfhammer before I've given town my reads for tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

You're scum game has dropped greatly imo, and I never thought I'd see you be so stumped on a call out.

GL and Kings haven't been on together. If you're town you should unvote.

[RadiantCowbells]

fmpov you should know that I'm town and you've said several things that indicate that.

If we lose because of your tunnel on me, that's not my problem. You're right: I can see your play here coming from town, but if you're going to vote me anyway then there's no point in me trying to work through that.

[RadiantCowbells]

Perhaps you feel you've been treated unfairly?

[RadiantCowbells]

Be careful not to choke on your aspirations, director.

[RadiantCowbells]

Kingmaker is in prod range, fyi.

[RadiantCowbells]

Then vote me, GL.
There is zero reason to drag this game out. RC backing off because I called both Scum. Originally it was less of a risk when I was saying king as his partner because Brie would have still won it from them.

The implication is that if I was scum I'd feel threatened by you: I think that you know full well that's utter bullshit and that you're pushing it hoping that GL doesn't.

Either we Lynch RC and Brie (both, not just one) or you lynch me.

-Scylla

Empty posturing is boring and you should do something else.

This makes no sense.
Why would I know you're town from my point if view?
Why does Scum me not kill town you?

You're implying that I'm scum because I'm weakening my position by trying to avoid losing the game by having votes down before I'm ready. You know full well that if I was scum I could just double down and lynch you here, I have no motivation to try to deescalate things and implying that I'm doing it because I'm scared of you is a hilarious joke.

Idk why you don't kill me, but since you're deathtunneling me seems pretty likely that you thought you might score an easy mislynch by abusing paranoia.

Feel I've been treated unfairly over what?

I have you as both Scum. I'm right and that's why you have been taken back today because you didn't expect it.

Easy money, easy game.

If I was scum with TheBrie I literally wouldn't care about any of your posturing because I'd know you're getting lynched today and I'd just win today anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I was scum with TheBrie I literally wouldn't care about any of your posturing because I'd know you're getting lynched today and I'd just win today anyway.

We'll see. Maybe So, maybe not.
I'm on Scum, and what you say doesn't make sense with an unvote. If I'm being lynched today and you are okay with that then you would either be Scum or think of me as Scum, and with the unvote and the minor comments of my play being from town etc, I don't believe you think I'm Scum here.

-Scylla

If I had to vote right now I would vote you but I'm neither sure enough to want to place my vote down nor willing to risk GL voting and you selfhammering and me getting no say in F3.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright then.

VOTE: Scylla

If you're town then I take below zero responsibility for this.

[RadiantCowbells]

GL < Brie <<<< Kings atm

but that's contingent on what Kings does when he comes back.

I think it's at least possible that he calls out his scumpartner here, probably more likely than him scum with you doing so, but it feels like it's an excuse to not be forced to vote Kings today.

[RadiantCowbells]

Vedith would know that he never wins 3 way after a Kings flip and if he expressed a scumread and everyone agreed the scumteam was Kings/X we would just lynch Kings.

So I feel like he's sorta obligated to not scumread Kings. I personally think it's sort of obvious that I am not scum with TheBrie given our interactions this game but I think you are the misvote that he is counting on here.

[RadiantCowbells]

I had a dream. In my dream, there were boxes and boxes of Kraft Dinner.

[RadiantCowbells]

For the record I don't think it's impossible that Brie thought she could fool me and wanted to get one over on me since I was townreading her anyway.

It would explain S&C's insistence that he would always nightkill me if he had wanted to nightkill me but his partner refused.

@TheBrie, would you want to nightkill me as scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

@RC
Why do you think Scylla couldn't survive my flip? It would be basically exact same situation as now except minus Brie, because she would be clear and obvious nightkill if I flipped scum.

I mean I think he could have survived your flip if he had done the day differently but post tunneling me I don't think he ever walks away from it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yes? But wouldn't you feel more inclined to vote RC over Scylla if he were more conventional about his push on RC(trying to convince people instead of going all in at the day start)?

Why does him making a bad play, regardless of alignment, make him town when as we've both noted this is how he plays?
In my last game he spent the entire game calling Layla scum without ever giving a reason for it, which is essentially the same play as he's making here.
Why are you assuming that him playing badly makes him town?

[RadiantCowbells]

Because it's what scum do.
They make a reason to scum read someone. I will always lynch anyone who gives false meta on me.

But you can't comment that RC couldn't present proof to the claim, even though he was trying to push it as something scum me does?
When I can prove it's actually the opposite.

-Scylla

I have provided evidence: this is essentially the same play you made in 6 way in my game.

[RadiantCowbells]

but in the very game you linked, that lead to you lynching town?

Do you think RC would lie about the meta as town to make me look scummy?
Or do you think RC lies about it as scum to make me look scummy?

I assume you have experience with RC like I do.

-Scylla

Repeated insistence that I've lied about his meta when I've been super clear several times what I'm referring to.

[RadiantCowbells]

The best you've claimed is that it's non-alignment indicative but given the games that we have specifically played together I have not seen a tendency for you as town to recklessly tunnel like you do as scum.

I've never said it would make him town, I just said I couldn't make sense out of it regardless of his alignment. In fact I outright told him he was looking more like a scum?

I misread that, sorry.

Okay, point to me where I vote town in LyLo off the bat.
This is what you said.

I mean, you just called me town.
I'm not going to dig through meta that I don't know to find a game where you've spedvote as scum in LyLo however what I've seen from you in Open 645 and Bringer Mafia was you replacing in and being bad but slow and analytical and trying to understand things as town versus you hard deathtunneling Layla for no reason in the game that I modded. This leans far closer to the latter.
I'm totally willing to believe you when you claim that nowadays you pull shitty deathtunnels as town now but that doesn't mean anything to me given that you're already confscum.

You have the stuff on RC and Brie. If RC really thought I was scum, and lets face it, yesterday RC wasn't calling me town, then he would be more suspect of Brie.
But instead, Brie has been pushed as town by RC all game.

Regardless what happens, I read you spot on, RC. And that just feeds my ego that majority games, you are an easy read as scum to me.

Oh look making it about my username. Where have I seen that before.
I think Brie has been relatively towny, I think S&C + TheBrie is a little weird for several reasons (though if Brie didn't want me killed it would make sense), and I had other scumreads.
I still think it's more likely that one of GL/Kings is scum with you than Brie is, but I'm willing to at least consider Brie scum.

It's 2am, I'm going to bed.

-Scylla

sweet dreams scumfuck

[RadiantCowbells]

I feel like it's indicative here that Duckdoggo lynch went through without S&C on it, while S&C was pushing it the first half of D1. If S&C is town and Brie/RC is the team, they just hopped on two town driven wagons as the day ended for both lynches. That may be a function of the set-up, but generally it's pretty rare that you see that happen in 9p games with 2 scum, usually scum try in some way to set themselves up with a convincing narrative for 5p and hopping on wagons doesn't really let you do that.

doesn't really lead me any closer to a good conclusion but meehhhh

I want more of Brie/King interacting directly

If I were scum I would have gotten myself in a way better position for 5 way than hopping on and lynching two general scumreads would have allowed, for the record.

[RadiantCowbells]

Another lie. You are the one saying I'm voting you as town in LyLo.
I also have a reason to vote you, because you are lying. Why don't you use my meta properly? How I always push/lynch my scum buddy in every scum game I have ever been in? Including in the game you modded.
I guess that part doesn't support your mis lynch.

The function of the setup makes bussing on D1 terrible and I don't see a situation where you'd bus your partner today, so great self meta but no?

I'm making it about you, not the name.
People that have played with you aren't stupid. There's a reason you were awarded most manipulative scum...
You haven't considered Brie all game. Lets face it.
As I said, you would have done a better job with trying to pocket me this day phase than lying about my town/scum game.

Wait so I'm the most manipulative scum and your proof is that I never considered my scumpartner as scum (shit scum play) and reacted poorly to your push on me? (shit scum play as well)
You can't play the most cunning manipulator card while simultaneously accusing me of being scum because my play is bad scum play.

[RadiantCowbells]

No. It's obvious if you actually re read the game. I suggest you actually do it.
What's RC's reason as me scum? Because I wanted to mis lynch him instead of night kill him? How can you say that my reasoning is lacking?

Did I call you scum or did I say that I wasn't entirely willing to write off the possibility and that, IF you were scum, that was what happened?

[RadiantCowbells]

I did it in the game you modded.
It was a terrible thing to do there, but as I said to you, that's my standard scum meta.
Do you think that me bussing in the game you modded was any worse than me bussing here?

Every single scum game I bus my team. I have lynched scum on day 1 as scum 60%+
So yes, that meta is very important if you're trying to use something else to call me scum.

I have bussed way more scumpartners than you have and I wouldn't presume to say that I'm town because I didn't bus in a setup where it's a shitty idea, barring niche cases.
I think there's a massive difference between your partner rando gladiating in a way that makes them an obvious lynch and voting a partner when there's many free lynches.

Why do I feel like you pushing this bus stuff is meant to try to make Brie a more palatable mislynch tomorrow?

[RadiantCowbells]

I have bussed way more scumpartners than you have and I wouldn't presume to say that I'm town because I didn't bus in a setup where it's a shitty idea, barring niche cases.
I think there's a massive difference between your partner rando gladiating in a way that makes them an obvious lynch and voting a partner when there's many free lynches.

Why do I feel like you pushing this bus stuff is meant to try to make Brie a more palatable mislynch tomorrow?

You are the one who was using meta for how I play town scum though.
You used meta on me, you lied about meta on me, and you are using the opposite meta to how I play.
You're speaking to the person who day vigged scum as scum just for the town credit. So for you to now back off and basically say meta isn't important after you tried to call me scum for it...

If GL and King pull their fingers out and lynch you, we are lynching Brie tomorrow without question.
If they don't then it's over anyway so really doesn't matter.

-Scylla

'Hi I always bus my partners so I can't possibly be scum here because I didn't bus' isn't meta.
I pgoed my scum partner for town cred hydraed with FA. I wrote a guide on how to bus, a significant majority of my finished scum games this year happened with me as sole scum remaining.
If you're town for not bussing as a person who busses a lot, why am I not autocleared? If you believe that you should be townread for that, you should never scumread me for it.
Your level of bussing doesn't even compare to mine.

[RadiantCowbells]

What other questions did people have for me? I'm not in the right state of mind to pick them all out.

Do you love me? yes or no.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you want to know if I enjoy playing with you, I'm not answering.

[RadiantCowbells]

And yeah, I did hardbus in scumhunters. I bus virtually whenever I can.
On the contrary, you claim that you've hardbussed Vedith this game but you haven't actually voted him and haven't really encouraged GL to pick a side in me vs Vedith one way or the other.

[RadiantCowbells]

@TheBrie

Why do you townread me / why do you think that Vedith is scum?
Why are you town and Kingsmaker scum?

@Kings

You've mostly talked about Vedith. Why are you town and why is Brie scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

GL, do you not agree with me that stuff like 469 from Kingsmaker feels like he's trying to cast doubt on the scumreads on Vedith without doing so directly?
Like he hasn't actually called Vedith town and has called him scum most of the time but he isn't exactly treating the slot like one he confidently scumreads.

[RadiantCowbells]

Are you sure you've read the post you mentioned because that post is me saying scum!Scylla makes more sense in the circumstances but Scylla's actions don't make sense in general regardless of alignment - you can see it easily if you check the start of that talk.

I reread it: I still feel like you were leaving the possibility open of switching reads and trying not to push him too hard.
Either TheBrie called her partner scum and didn't really bother to push him or do anything or you've called him scum and are trying to look like you're pushing him while not really.

We have 48 hours.

I've already talked a bit about my thoughts on Brie, my reread didn't change them much - she looks low on actual substance and her own opinions. One thing making me err a bit is her minor push on Scylla, that kinda can be justified by Scylla not actually being in danger of getting lynched but still.

When you're claiming that her push on Scylla makes you err, does that mean you think that GL might be scum or you think that I might be scum with her?

[RadiantCowbells]

It's pretty fucking unfair that everyone did virtually nothing outside of Scylla today and I don't get a chance to influence the lynch tomorrow.

[RadiantCowbells]

I realize your friend died. Sorry. I wasn't trying to attack you.

I'm not blaming you, this is just really shitty and obnoxious.

I still think you're town if it helps. I wanted a better read on Kings today.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not scum so

[RadiantCowbells]

GL who do you think is the last scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't get the the reasoning about me leaving wiggle room on Scylla - what would even be my end game by this? If I was scum with Scylla one mislynch would be all I need to win which could have been arguably more easy to achieve by either going all against RC or completely sucking up to him to make him look more suspicious in rest of the players' eyes meanwhile waiting for someone to vote for them to quickhammer. That's not what I've done today, I'm trying to make sense of things because objectively, some things do

not

make sense here.

You would have had to decide to go all out versus me at a point when the rest of the town were all townreading me and you were generally seen as second scum. So, no.
I mean I agree you should have hardbussed Scylla given how everyone scumread him but feels to me like you were talking with an agenda when you pushed on him.
If you're town then TheBrie is scum (or GL). Why is TheBrie scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not cherry picking. I do still feel like it was sort of a waffley post that scum would make about their scumpartners to look like they're pushing on them without really saying anything.
Your entire 'well Scylla is probscum but [] weird as scum (or as town in this case)' so that you have leverage to back off plays into that.

If you're town, someone else is scum and you should be able to tell me why.

[RadiantCowbells]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like you'd have said something stronger and more strongly scum indicative about the dude.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also we have less than a day before deadline

[RadiantCowbells]

>rc could be scum
>hammering

[RadiantCowbells]

I honestly think this setup as is is fine.

[RadiantCowbells]

If anything it's townsided tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, permission to open scum pt

[RadiantCowbells]

It's town sided, but we won.

I'm alright with everyone seeing how much RC helped me.

9p scumhunter's speed was townsided too but that was a scum win too

[RadiantCowbells]

I feel bad for Vedith. His scumread on me was abject shit and I still feel like it was basically a policy vote but I get the impression he just knew he was never gonna get me lynched and gave up.

[RadiantCowbells]

Vedith's vote was awful. He happened to be town, and right, and I think his Brie scumread may have been somewhat correct (although unless he specifically figured out my methodology and why I wouldn't be risking a mislynch on my partner I think that was just bad logic too: I very rarely never consider my partners for lynches, and haven't in any game Vedith has seen me in) but his play was bad and in a scummy way and he was never really getting me lynched.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think you should exclude games where I roll scum from consideration with regards to how townsided it is.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also, if I'm not wrong, this is 1 town win 1 scum win

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think it's that bad

[RadiantCowbells]

Meta on you was honest meta as I understood it from our past games as I linked them to you. If that was your reason for scumreading me then you can't claim anything besides NAI.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yikes.

[RadiantCowbells]

Brie, okay to open scumchat?

I think it's a very worthwhile read because it shows a lot of what we were thinking htis game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Read scum thread when it's out ck

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

both shoulda been town wins but *shrug*

[RadiantCowbells]

You can't compare them

This was never gonna be a town win

1811 I got policy lynched for having my username when I solved the game d1, 1810 Gorny voted the uncced cop who was obviously cop given how we worked out the claim together