Open 62 - Strawberry Mafia - Game Over! before 568

[Scigatt]

Hi, this is my first non-newbie game...so I'll probably act stupid a lot...

[Scigatt]

FoS: Near

Seriously?

[Scigatt]

FoS: Near

Seriously?

Haven't we gone over this already? Or are you being sarcastic too?

Yes, but I really do think it warrants an FoS.

[Scigatt]

Sorry I haven't been able to get on as much as I wanted, but RL got in the way.

Anyways, here are some scatterbrained thoughts on the game:

Near is, in my eyes, acting a bit more townie, but I am still suspicious. The FoS is still there for me, but weakened.

neko2086, I'm not sure what information you can glean from me, but I hope this post will help you, unless you're mafia. Anyways, I have a gut feeling that your motives are good, but that's it, I can't back that up. I do have a question, though: Do you want me lynched or not?

If you want a vote from me...

Well, MafiaWiki says that third to a bandwagon is likely to be scum, so:

Vote:ThAdmiral

(omg, a OMGUS vote!)
If anyone can convince me that my vote is misplaced, I'll gladly change it.

[Scigatt]

Hmm...

Sorry for not posting for a while. Anyways.

YvonneSeer's single-minded hounding of ThAdmiral seems troubling, but she may have a good reason to be so critical. ThAdmiral doesn't seem to be helping much with his posts. For the moment, I am willing to keep my vote where is though I am feeling a bit uneasy about it. I would also like to hear what YvonneSeer has to say about the other people in this game.

Near seems to have been in a tough spot back there. It's his own damn fault though. If he hadn't started the self-bandwagon and acted all sarcastic a few posts later, wouldn't have had to defend himself. For what it's worth, though, I don't think he's scum now.

Un-FoS:Near

FoS:Xtoxm

To me, all his posts were attempts to be part of the conversation without actually being part of the conversation, if that makes any sense(excepting that stretch in page 4).

That's all I feel confident saying from a quick read-through. I'll re-read through later.

[Scigatt]

Hmm...

I'm not changing my vote. I can't really explain it, but I have this feeling that YvonneSeer is onto something. I don't know what this means...maybe I'm not taking the saying in my sig seriously enough. In any case, I'd like to get another prod on YvonneSeer(It can't hurt, anyways).

Oh, and my last post gap was caused by my grandma suddenly dying and rushing my Dad to get a ticket to the old country for the funeral. (the rest of us had stuff to do here over the next few weeks)

[Scigatt]

My vote is my contribution for the day. More of you should be like Scigatt...

Look, I don't care who you think you are in this game,

just a vote is not helping

. I've been the one who has supported you the most in this game so far, but you really need to step up here.

[Scigatt]

Actually, I'd rather replace an inactive than lynch one. Apparently you didn't see my reasoning--I don't see her play helpful (to her, if that clears it up) whether she is town or scum. She's not convincing anyone to vote Admiral, which is something she should want to do.

At any rate, getting people to talk only helps us. More talking and participation, and longer days are helpful to the town. So, if she's not going to participate, I don't really want her in this game. I'd rather get somebody else in who is willing to contribute to discussion.

This would actually stimulate discussion and increase momentum. If I'm killing momentum, it's to keep a hasty lurker-lynch from happening.

That said, why don't you give me a good reason for lynching her rather than replacing her? I'm assuming that you're voting her for a lynch and not just for pressure.

I too support a replacement.

[Scigatt]

Mod:Prods for some of the other players, please? Also, may you please find a replacement for YvonneSeer?

[Scigatt]

Can any of you show me how ThAdmiral looks town to you? If you cannot, then is my vote to lynch him today not justified? Also, a question to those of you who are voting me and/or think I'm scum: What do you think I'm currently trying to accomplish as scum?

What about any of the other players?

[Scigatt]

Yvonne: Why settle for just enough of a contribution? You could help a lot more if you conjectured a bit. I don't know, re-read the thread, check your gut, or something like that. You can't really be playing this game at all if you aren't doing that.

[Scigatt]

Mod:Vote Count, Please?

[Scigatt]

Personally, I suggest that we don't do any lynch until Yvonne's replacement comes in(preferably we'd wait until Jester comes back, though I might get on a lynchwagon if the case was good enough). In the meanwhile, I think we need to start focusing more on other people here. While I have made my stance on the Yvonne debate very clear, I recognize this issue is currently rather divisive and indecisive. Secondly, even if we do end up lynching Yvonne's replacement or ThAdmiral in D1, without more discussion of other players I feel we will be ill-equipped to handle D2.

That being said, wanting to lynch a pending replacement is, IMO, very scummy. That, combined with the lack of any real contribution and an uncanny willingness to get D1 over with compels me to...

Unvote, Vote: Xtoxm

(ThAdmiral, IGMEOY)

[Scigatt]

@Xtoxm - Why don't you just wear a T-shirt that says "I'm scum!"? Snix, you could wear the T-shirt that says "I'm with the goon" with an arrow that points to Xtoxm.

It's reasonable to backlash at the people who want you dead but you're predesesor had dug herself a deep hole and you aren't doing much to try and get yourself out of it. IMO

Your moral support of Xtoxm proposing to lynch a player before a replacement arrives has little to do with my predecessor (other than her actions setting up the scenario itself). It is acceptable that you may not like it, but if you are town, you take the hand you are dealt, wait for the replacement, and put the screws to

them

. This effort to remove a player whose voice has gone silent does not sit well with me.

Now, if you believe my predecessor had dug herself such a deep hole, you wont mind describing the dimensions of this hole in your own words would you?

@neko - I might get around to it, we'll see if I have the time. I started reading backwards, and then picking some individuals to look at based upon what I was seeing.

As for what Yvonne was trying to do, I suspect it was along the lines of ABR's method as outlined here:

viewtopic.php?t=7958

The problem with singlemindedness (and especially early with not much to press your case with) is that you are just as likely to take heat yourself. Someone like ABR can take it and dish it back. The playstyle works for him.
She did fairly well, getting up to 3 votes on ThAdmiral. That's good material, but her problem was she also managed 5 votes on herself and appears to have lacked either the time or the ability to deflect the attention.
Some people trying this playstyle are just going to get lynched. Hence my recommendation that she get more defensive experience before trying out that kind of style.

What do you think about ThAdmiral?

[Scigatt]

I read you Dizzy.

I'd like you to explain yourself.

At the beginning of the game, you mentioned the Cop, and the idea that a lucky one might push for a lynch and look scummy.

Something that doesn't seem to have been discussed regarding the people who have pushed for others to be lynched - is it not possible that one of the is the cop? As there is no Doc, the Cop isn't going to make a roleclaim this soon, and the Cop was able to investigate someone on Night Zero, meaning that, should they have taken advantage of this, they could very well know that someone is Mafia if they scored lucky, and given they want to protect their role, may be coming off as scummy. Just something we shoudl consider, I think.

I wouldn't ahve taken that gamble...bout ok.

You then try to appear helpful with the "I'd hate to lynch a cop by mistake" line. How about you let the Cop do their job and you quit hunting them?

Well, I certainly don't think we should be actively seeking the Cop... just being mindful of the possibilities. I'd hate to lynch a cop by mistake, wouldn't you?

After all of this, it is very interesting then, that you are choosing to go after the player who had a singular, mostly unexplained focus. Isn't that what you warned us to watch out for? That maybe that person could be the Cop? Why then are you ignoring your own advice and voting for the role that fit your previous profile?

fos

Inconsistent play by our DizzyIzzy.

[Scigatt]

I don't agree with that gamble...but okay.

[Scigatt]

4.

Scigatt, can you expand on your recent post?

I just didn't agree with with the way Ectomancer handled Dizzy. That's all.

[Scigatt]

4.

Scigatt, can you expand on your recent post?

I just didn't agree with with the way Ectomancer handled Dizzy. That's all.

fos

Ectomancer for being too aggressive.

nothing like that, I just thought your tactics were a little dubious.

[Scigatt]

FoS:DizzyIzzy

for the response.

Those were some really bad arguments, if they can actually be classified as such. Also, don't you mean 'if'?

Mod: can we please get prods on Near, Jester, and JamesThePhox?

[Scigatt]

Sorry I haven't posted for a while, got caught up in a few thing in RL for a while(I'm not entirely blameless, one of the things is getting into a CD set I just purchased). I'll look over the thread right after this post, but a quick glance at this page alone makes me want to keep my vote where it is.

Mod: I think you might need to replace Jester. Also, can you please do something about Near and JamesThePhox(prod, replacement, your call). Also, vote count, please

[Scigatt]

Well I tried to salvage the role, but I believe that I remain the #1 NK target, and so am forced to give last nights results in order to avoid ThAdmiral slipping away tomorrow. I had decided to try to gain another investigation tonight by leaving him alive, hoping scum would chalk it up to the dumb luck that it was that Yvonne had gone straight and singularly after ThAdmiral and perhaps leave me alive tonight. I dont see ThAdmiral making that mistake. So.

Yvonne targeted ThAdmiral N0 and got a guilty return.

I stand by my assertion that DizzyIzzy was cop hunting, and congratulations, you found it. Dizzy needs to be lynched tomorrow.

Snix and Scigatt both for some reason struck me as the 3rd partner, but I'll have to go back and look to tell you why. The analysis was based upon my information that ThAdmiral is scum and Yvonne was cop.

ThAdmiral needs to be lynched today, but please do not do it yet. I'd like a chance to read through and give some more contribution, plus I'd like the chance to comment on your theories as well.

I dont think Xtoxm is scum.
I dont think Cephrir is scum.

Please don't vote each other.

(Dont take that as gospel later. Just my 2 cents at this point)

Well, I figured that Yvonne was the cop in page 9(see post 204). When she got replaced, Ecto confirmed my suspicions(post 302). My 315, 320, and 325 was me not liking how Ecto handled the situation with Dizzy(eg. I wouldn't have done it the same way), though I think I am beginning to see what he was aiming for. Anyways, I'm not sure what he's aiming for here. I don't think he was the #1 lynch target at the time. He might have thought that ThAdmiral was too dangerous to let slip away, but I do think that we'd come to lynch him if/when Ecto came up cop. I would like to hear more on Ecto's thoughts on Dizzy, however.

[Scigatt]

EBWOP:Also, I will not change my vote until Ecto reads though the thread.

[Scigatt]

*counts votes*

Hmm...well, I believe ThAdmiral has 4 votes on him now(Near, Xtoxm, Cephir, Ectomancer). At this point I think we have just enough 'supporters' active to get him lynched(those already voting for him, plus neko, Marmalade, and myself, presumably). That being said, I'd like to see how Jester, Near, and JamesThePhox(or their replacements) make of recent developments, as well as a more detailed reaction from Snix. (I don't think we should wait up for ThAdmiral, as he seems to have been actively avoiding this thread, but it's been sooner than I thought since Ecto claimed). I say if we don't get them here by the 21st(or 23rd), we go ahead with the lynch.

[Scigatt]

That's L-2...really, all I'm waiting for is the Mod to show up(where is he?). However, I will vote ThAdmiral regardless on the 23rd(or 21st) if he doesn't show up.

[Scigatt]

Some questions from D1.

Snix:What were you trying to accomplish by asking who Ecto would investigate?

neko:If you figured out that Yvonne/ecto was the cop around/before the time I did, why didn't you vote for him then?

[Scigatt]

I don't think there is anything new I could say here, but I'll try...

Dizzy:You post 479 is inexcusable. To call it an argument is a stretch; it's just a bunch of insults with a vote thrown in as an afterthought. You complain about Cephir's attitude, yet you yourself rebuff any attempts to get these 'answers' from you, and you also strongly imply that you don't even care about the game anymore. So, as response to your 508: What is the point?

On Xtoxm: This is just a gut feeling(thus I am not taking to seriously), but something is telling me that Xtoxm is town, albeit play rather unusually. His suspicious play strikes me as more of a personality issue than anything, though a re-reading could change my mind. In the end I have to concur with the sentiments in JDodge's quote on Xtoxm.

ShodowLurker(post 515):I know how you feel, dude.

[Scigatt]

EBWOP:I didn't read Dizzy's most recent posts before I posted.

[Scigatt]

ShodowLurker(post 515):I know how you feel, dude.

What is this referring to?[/quote]

When you said you were put into this game against your will.

[Scigatt]

Actually Dizzy, it obviously has a lot of bearing because it's kinda your entre case.

It isn't though. I'm sure you'd love to be able to play it that way.

We'd love to hear you case, then(or at least the answer to Cephir's 539, if he responded to you entire case).

One more thing: Stop with the victim complex(that's what it is). Cephir is not unduly making a case for you. Rather, he was merely saying what most of us were thinking. However you think you became the prime lynch target, IT'S YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT. Through the posts you made, you gave us an impression of nearly unbelievable scumminess. You know, if you wish, come back to this game in a couple of weeks(maybe when you become an IC) and look over your posts. If you can tell yourself honestly that you didn't look scummy, then I'm sorry. So, in summary, Lynch you wrongly, shame on us. Lynch you wrongly after you act in a way that would have you accused of being a blatant jester in a closed setup, shame on you.

[Scigatt]

Actually Dizzy, it obviously has a lot of bearing because it's kinda your entre case.

It isn't though. I'm sure you'd love to be able to play it that way.

We'd love to hear you case, then(or at least the answer to Cephir's 539, if he responded to you entire case).

One more thing: Stop with the victim complex(that's what it is). Cephir is not unduly making a case for you. Rather, he was merely saying what most of us were thinking. However you think you became the prime lynch target, IT'S YOUR OWN DAMN FAULT. Through the posts you made, you gave us an impression of nearly unbelievable scumminess. You know, if you wish, come back to this game in a couple of weeks(maybe when you become an IC) and look over your posts. If you can tell yourself honestly that you didn't look scummy, then I'm sorry. So, in summary, Lynch you wrongly, shame on us. Lynch you wrongly after you act in a way that would have you accused of being a blatant jester in a closed setup, shame on you.

This post sounds a lot like Scigatt knows Izzy is town.

Scum or town, I really didn't like her play.

[Scigatt]

JtP, I didn't say anything about that because it wouldn't have fit the saying. I probably should have qualified it, but I writing in haste.

Also, what was I doing again...oh, yeah...

Vote: DizzyIzzyB13

[Scigatt]

vote perfect

perfect still has not explained his sketchy vote from yesterday and with more lurking, (Did you not read the thread during the night? were you busy nighttalking with scumbuddies?) I see no reason not to keep voting him.

Also don't like Scigatt after that post that sounded like he knew Izzy was going to come up town and the hammer ending discussion short after everybody had waited on perfect to post.

The way I stated that that post you refer to was to best fit into the the saying I thought was appropriate. I was actually rather angry at Dizzy's attitude at that moment, so it probably could have been said better, but I still stand by everything I said in that post. Also, it was my impression that after perfect's input we go ahead with the lynch and I was just facilitating that.

[Scigatt]

*picks up prod*

Nothing too much to say as of yet, but I have gotten this notion that Snix(if he is scum) may have beenpullling a gambit on D2. Looking it over, it could go either way, though.

[Scigatt]

I have gotten this notion that Snix(if he is scum) may have beenpullling a gambit on D2.

Go into detail, please. I mean, you've got to have

something

to say.

Well, it seems to me that while Snix made his intentions clear on D2, he might have not done all he could to stop the Dizzy lynch. Not that that means anything, it's just an observation.

[Scigatt]

EBWOP:I just thought of a possible Snix-Cephir scumpairing. I don't know where that leads, but I think it's at least worth looking into.

[Scigatt]

It's not that I am pushing a lynch or even voting on my theory, it's just that I've noticed a few things that made me think my theory is worth looking over, at least. One is that Snix has harboured a suspicion of Cephir since early D1, yet nearly always said that it was a gut feeling. This may have been mentioned before, but this could be a distancing tactic. Also, notice that the town has been pretty divided since the middle of D1. A sound(I think) tactic for scum in this situation is to take opposing sides, so as to be able to manipulate both sides and throw off the player connections. Now I can't be sure the scum(whomever they are) are currently using this strategy, but I think it is a possibility that cannot be ignored.

[Scigatt]

Mod, can we get a prod on neko2086?

[Scigatt]

Sorry for not posting in a while.

Hmm...as to the innocence of Xtoxm, I picked up sometime at the end of D1 that it was probably a playstyle issue instead. I should probably have looked a bit more into it, but I suggest the EL do a bit of meta on Xtoxm, as that is one of the things that seems to clear him.

What do you think of the other players in this game, EL?

Mod, can we get a prod or replacement on perfect?

[Scigatt]

Trying to get back into the game...

Cephir, what's with the sudden vote on EL. You may have your reasons, but it seems a bit sudden.

[Scigatt]

Reading over D3...

[Scigatt]

I'd figure I'll give you a once over and then my general thoughts. Unfortunately I have no solid suspicions on who is scum.

Snix:Some of his posts in D1 and 2 seem to be scummy, but his D3 is better. Leaning towards scum, but open toward the possibility of being innocent. I might elaborate on this especially if asked

neko:All his posts seem to be honest attempts to advance the townie cause. I can't say that it is unlikely that he is scum, but I'd be the most surprised to find out that he is(as opposed to anyone else).

EL:His general play makes me uneasy, but I can't see anything really scummy from him, except maybe the fake suspicion post. One thing notable is that he seemed to focus his attention to Xtoxm and those who were defending him. Recently it seems he lightened up on him a bit, but I still think that he should do a meta on Xtoxm. P.S.:If you hadn't lightened up, I was gonna mangle a famous person's quote and post it here.

Xtoxm:I don't think I can get a good read on him at all just yet. While at some points he seems scummy almost to the point of comedy in this game, Cephir's meta defence of him is worth looking into and I'll want to do that a few days. In any case, I'm getting meta from him whether I like it or not.

ShadowLurker:I don't know...personally, his suspicion of perfect seemed rather contrived(unless it's more than just that L-1 vote-post he's basing his case on). Then, almost on impulse, he votes for Xtoxm. I'm not sure what's going on with him, but it may just stem from impatience. P.S.:When I said I sympathized with you, I was talking about another game.

perfect:While I did find SL's case against you somewhat lacking, I don't see much actual scumhunting from you at all, even considering the paucity of posts. Not sure of you yet, but will wait on you analysis.

Cephir:All of his posts seem to be indicate town, (albeit agressive). However, a gut feeling(nothing more) indicates otherwise to me. I am willing to ignore it for now, as it is possibly playstyle related.

Generally, I think there is a good chance that the two living scum were on opposite sides of the Yvonne issue or that one of the ignored it. As I have said before, in a divided town one of the best strategies is to divide an conquer. Separate but related, I don't think that Cephir and Xtoxm could be scum together. I also think it's a good idea to look at possible scumpairings now. Additionally, while I don't know how the math turns out, what do you think of a no lynch?

[Scigatt]

While I'm here, I might as well bring up something that's been bothering me a little, rather than wait for lylo.

First of all, do we agree that neko seems to be the towniest one here? If so, how come he wasn't killed N2? (N1 kill, of course, was used to kill the cop). If this is significant, then there are two possibilities I can think of.

1)neko is scum
2)neko has his suspicions completely wrong.

Then again, there might be nothing to this.

[Scigatt]

This is setting up a WIFOM discussion (well, maybe that's what the scum

want

you to think, etc.)

Maybe, but it's a consideration worth looking into.

[Scigatt]

Scigatt, you said you would elaborate on your thoughts on Snix if asked, which I did, so, whenever you're ready...

I'm gonna have to reread the whole thread...so later today or tomorrow, probably.

[Scigatt]

EBWOP:Or do you just want tme to go off of D3 stuff?

[Scigatt]

Scigatt, you said you would elaborate on your thoughts on Snix if asked, which I did, so, whenever you're ready...

Okay, this is based on D3 posts and a impression of D1+D2.

Notable things in in no particular order.

One of the things that makes Snix seem slightly scummy is gut feeling that Cephir is scum. However, how signifcant this really is depend on who he is paired with, if anyone, though. Another thing that struck me is his 'attack' of Xtoxm. Normally this would be a towntell, but the fact that he seems to be 'pleading' for his case(that's how I viewed his parts of his posts 657 and 663) which puts this at about neutral for me.
(@Snix: Say what you will about is playing style, but when he masters it(insert appropriate tense), it could be very devastating for the other faction(s), whichever side he is on.)
The fact that he says he says he stayed away from the Dizzy lynch because of a 'feeling' is also rather troubling. Recently he has been laying low, but I don't know what that means yet.

[Scigatt]

@EL:Imagine if someone

made up

scummy things about you in a game(as you admit you have done to Cephir, for whatever reason.). Wouldn't you believe that player was extremely scummy.

@ShadowLurker:I mentioned that your case against perfect seemed contrived. I'm wondering: I s you suspicion of him based one just one post?

@neko:You might not have been interested in more info on Snix anyways.

[Scigatt]

this is something that's been bothering me for a while, and hinted at in my previous posts, but what makes us think that neko is town?

[Scigatt]

I have considered the possibility that it is.

Personally, unless you consider them both incredibly stupid or incredibly foolhardy, I don't see how you can rationally consider a Xtoxm/Cephir pair, but that's just me.

[Scigatt]

@ShadowLurker:I mentioned that your case against perfect seemed contrived. I'm wondering: I s you suspicion of him based one just one post?

perfect has been less helpful than xtoxm. That's even more suspicious than his one meaningful post this game that was a lot of I don't have a solid read on anyone.

I'm sorry, but can you please put your arguments against him in a response post, or at least give the number or your posts with evidence against him. Keep in mind that if you are just basing this on one post, I most probably won't take it seriously.

[Scigatt]

So deadline is approaching, and apparently, we need to come to a consensus. I should have read that a bit more carefully...

Scigatt and perfect need to pick a side. I'll vote xtoxm if needed to get a lynch. I think no-lynch is not a good option right now, so let's not let it happen.

EL needs to stop dodging questions. Your last content post was good, though, and I think you have a good point on xtoxm. I think there are still some questions left unanswered, however.

I, too, shall vote Xtoxm if necessary. In my mind him and Snix are about even at this time though. However, whatever he or whomever is lynched turns up as and whomever is NK'd, we should get keep an open mind about everyone. In particular, whether I live to the next day or not, but especially if I don't, I think we should all take a look at neko, who seems to be getting a free pass for most of this game. It may be just me, but I've noticed a bit of opportunism in his recent play. I'll probably have to reread to confirm this, but regardless he should be scrutinized.

[Scigatt]

I will officially state that I am positive Snix is Town from the re-reads I've been doing. Not exactly the most helpful or intelligent Town, but definitely Town.

What brought you to this conclusion?

I was hoping EL would answer this, and while he briefly mentioned snix, he hasn't actually elaborated on this.


The signal:noise ratio is very low, and most of the noise is coming from EL and Cephrir.

Scigatt, you've been poking at me for the last few posts now, and I'm just wondering when you actually plan to present a case against me. I mean, are you

sure

you're going to be around tomorrow to do it? If everyone else has been giving me a free pass, they aren't as likely to do it, so, unless you're scum, wouldn't you want to throw it out there now?

I'd like to be able to present a case now, but I don't have one as of yet. Making a case would probably require reading the whole game, and I'm not sure I'll be able to do that before deadline. One of the goals of my previous post is that if I don't make it to the next day, those that are still alive will keep you in mind.
@Cephir:What do you mean by WIFOM in whatever meager arguments I have given?

[Scigatt]

Then switch to lynch me, but when the cardflip hits, remember that Snix is cleared by my Towniness.

Not necessarily...maybe if you were NK'd, but even then it's tenuous.

[Scigatt]

I just came by to say that I'll have limited access to the internet for the next week. I'll try to post, but no promises. I'd rather not get replaced, but if push cames to shove, go ahead.

Also, I want to say that in the next day, we should consider everyone as a suspect. I wish I had something insightful, though.

[Scigatt]

FoS Ceph and Snix

Not going to elaborate until Xtoxm's alignment is revealed.

You mean next day...when you could be dead.