Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[Sunlit Diamond]

Because he said he was a town pr that could prove his role and I was thinking about giving him a chance. Same thing with txhill

I am torn because Town PR is a hefty claim, but his ISO feels unsound to me, but I don't have time to explain why before I have to go spend the evening with my kid. (Thus why I am not voting yet).

Plus maybe I'm just naive, but how frequently do two town PRs out themselves in D1, especially that quickly in succession? It feels weird to me.

[Vecna]

Like if anything it sounds like you're trying state things that you think will sound good and plausible, but if you look deeper they don't really hold up.

Hmmm upon more *ahem* carefull....reading of your iso it turns out this point of mine mightve indeed been a bit flawed.

[Vecna]

I want to see this flip now. Either im completely wrong and Tchill is scum, or theres something fishy going on with Kort, monkey and massive.

Vecna, do you still believe this? Yes, I know you're voting Korts. Curious about the rest of it, and the nature of this "something fishy" that you see.

Let me try and explain my thought process to you - and hopefully it makes sense.

My initial suspicion was mainly on Monkey and Massive - as you noted yourself I was townreading Kort

Then the following happens; some more people express theyre also suspicious of Monkey, including Kort. I vote him, stating something along the lines of lets see where this goes, it seems there might be some good will to get this slot lynched.

Then Kort pops in, suddenly states he is feeling better about Monkey, and starts attacking me for voting Monkey. Note, at this time im also actively trying to stop the Tchill wagon from going through.

Now in my mind, this is fishy for a number of things; Kort decides to a; go back on his earlier read while it -might- be getting traction (this never happened though) - and b: attack the one person that is trying to turn his wagon on Tchill (whom claimed PR soon after) onto monkey. As I stated before, this could very well (and that is what I did) be interpreted as someone early soft-bussing their teammate, doing some distancing from it - but being unwilling to see him lynched day1. I felt he had some pretty strong criticisms levelled at monkey to suddenly let go of them so easily. This was the reason why I did that silly talk about the triangle, because the way these guys interacted I felt there was no teamconnection there. And then, Kort went 180 on that read.

Then kort posts a reads-list, with his biggest townreads on people I really dont see as strong townreads myself whatsoever. He posts that weird detailled read on Massive, stating something strange as "Oh if he's scum were in soo much trouble, but luckily I dont think he is". Another bell goes off in my head.

The Dark horse thing/read he expressed also rang wrong for me as I just explained - allthough I was mostly wrong on this point.

His scumreads also felt totally opposite from my scumreads. A scumread on me I know to be wrong. A scumread on Assemble, basically for lurking (which he does in every game), and a scumread on you - which I also do not agree with.

All in all my suspicions are indeed strong. I dont feel the same as kort anymore about a great many things. I could see a bunch of these things come from town, but they are also all very well explained by a very carefull and elaborate scum player.

[Vecna]

anyways its my bedtime.

Current thoughts;

2 scum in Monkey/Korts/Massive

1 scum elsewhere (Nancy/assemble/Grendle)

[Eddie Cane]

470 - i believe I can sort t chill given time. given wagonomics he was a mislynch. i wasn't strong on him being a mislynch, but I was strong on not lynching him. this is just multiplied by him claiming vig. i don't believe newb scum claims vig and regardless he can confirm himself.

471 - robb, that's the thing. meta doesn't suck. without meta I wouldn't know you do this as either alignment. then I would be completely sure you're scum. now idk. its important to determine an average. if you could just stop being so repugnant you wouldn't need to whine about nobody liking you, I'm trying to give you a chance here. keep the tone in 471 and come back before deadline with gamesolving that includes more players than Eddie Cane (i can still be in it). rereading will.help you and this game is slow. or just keep wasting a town vote.

474 is bad. dark horse gets scum points

I am unsure what I think of grendel. i want to townread their slot. i believe scum probably defended t chill though and it was likely mostly town driven wagon, and grendel could be that scum based on the wording around not wanting to lynch them. i will say I town lean grendel. and yes, we've played but I've been on other alts.

Nancy is probably town. i believe I need flips to sort that slot properly though. she's good enough thst I won't lock town out of paranoia.

482 I waffle on how i read it. sd could be town from tone, but like, their reasons for "not liking" me in 482 are bad bad bad for example. sd is a scum lean but was just a random vote to unvote robb. I'll move it by the end of this post probably.

I think vecna is probably townish. this is scum aristo on meta but not strongly and vecna is kinda echoing a lot of my thoughts. his votes especially I agree with strongly. monkey and korts were who I was considering voting. the issue with vecna is I hate his claim, and know he's capable of playing well as scum, but unlike t chill i think if vecnas scum scum is pushing him. actually, I'll vote korts too I think, cause vecna is another strong player so I don't need as much effort to argue with a person like korts. like the "hard" lynches in this game are me/vecna/nancy/korts and since korts is probs scum the help would be nice since I'm super busy with work. I've been saying I'll vote korts for a while so eh.

487 doesn't really matter.

488 ew

wtf is 503

506 makes me doubt my vecna tr. lolwat. not seriously because it makes no sense coming from scum. wtf tho lmao. at least 512 corrected it because I was gonna omgus vecna. now I can omgus ginger ninger instead.


524 is gross
VOTE: ginngie

531... excuse me t chill? you're not mislynch bait but you openly admit you're widely scumread often? lolz

bored of post replies. ready to lynch in ginngie / korts / monkey. if korts flips town im fine vigging vecna. scum monkey. either way assemble is acceptable. ive seen him by a lurler as town in the past but thats fefinitely plaustyle not alignment so idrc. im not going to strongarm a lynch today no strog enoigh reads so yeh.

[Ginngie]

\o/

[RadiantCowbells]

and

Wherein I make use of a conjunction.

Civilization Mafia Mafia:

Votecount 1.24:

Vecna (4): nancy, Tchill13, Ginngie, Korts,
Robbnva (2): Assemblerotws, Sunlight Diamond
Sunlit Diamond (1): Grendel
Ginngie (1): Eddie Cane
Grendel (1): massive
Korts (1): Vecna
Tchill13 (0):
humaneatingmonkey (0):
massive (0):
Eddie Cane (0):
nancy (0):
Dark Horse (0):
Assemblerotws (0):

Not Voting: Robbnva, humaneatingmonkey, Dark Horse,

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch.

The day has begun and will end in (expired on 2017-08-13 23:00:00).

Spoiler: Remaining Posts: (as of 580)

Korts: 64
Ginngie: 36
Vecna: 26
humaneatingmonkey: 73
Eddie Cane: 41
Sunlit Diamond: 59
Robbnva: 20
Grendel: 74
massive: 78
Dark Horse: 73
Assemblerotws: 92
nancy: 89
Tchill13: 25

Thanks to Schadd for helping me with this votecount when I was too drunk to do it.

[massive]

Vecna do you have anything about me specifically that you find scummy, or is it all associative?

[nancy]

Alright I'm caught up finally; I flat don't believe Vecna's claim at all; literally nothing about the way he claimed is town and if he did have a confirmable pr I think he would be a fuck of a lot more indignant about being run up than he has been; the kind of survivalism that he's displayed in the claim is something that I think is far more likely to come from scum and what basically amounts to a sigh of regret in 555 isn't something that I find believable at all from a PR who knows that they can confirm themselves through night actions. Not interested in lynching anywhere else today; the claim aside I think he's completely flat tonally, I dislike his progressions, I dislike his votes, I dislike basically everything coming from that slot right now.

I think the way he entered with a scumread on me is pretty sketchy given that I think I've been pretty transparently town this game and was the only slot pushing him at that point in time; Civilization was months ago and I was a newbie and VI back then, absolutely no way I should be playing like that anymore - think if Vecna were town he would be pretty happy to see the development in my play rather than scumread me for it in the way that he has; pretty obvious difference I think in his treatment of that compared with the way monkey has been overall hesistant about it and has actually engaged with it critically overall - especially considering how recent my game with monkey was.

I dislike the way that he's tried to play up the Korts/monkey/massive trio as something to orient his reads / the gamestate around; it feels like faux-scumhunting and I think it's a pretty easy way to posture around scumreading a slot you've stated a townread on and just a fake way to hold scumreads in general; the progression from his entrance where Korts looks like a pretty strong townread to 489 to voting Korts isn't one that makes sense to me at all; 577 feels pretty ad-hoc overall and I don't think someone having different reads than you do is good reasoning at all and not something that Vecna would scumread if he were town.

The way that he's interacted with Tchill feels particularly sketchy in that he initially came in saying that the reasoning for scum!Tchill was pretty poor then moved to voting him right after Korts started pushing that wagon again; think the way that unvoted and suddenly seemed fine with Tchill's play after the vigilante claim then voted him again for pretty much no reason at all is pretty bad. The way that he's engaged with Tchill overall from the claim to the appeasing and everything is just not something that makes sense coming from town pretty much ever. 540 and 543 in particular are just obscenely scummy.

Don't think he's actually given any substantive reasoning for his massive scumread or really any of his scumreads at all for that matter; haven't seen him display any kind of feeling about his townreads; think he's probably pretty content to scumread just about anyone here and nothing he's done so far has felt like he cares about solving the game so much as looking for slots he thinks he can lynch. Basically don't think there's anything from his play that could make me believe he's town here.

[Ginngie]

babe I need you to vote :3

[nancy]

I'm at the head of the wagon babe.

VOTE: Vecna

For emphasis?

[Ginngie]

oh shit you bold your votes, I always use tags and keep track mentally

[Ginngie]

sorry for being so quiet but as you can see, I can kinda easily burn through all my posts in about a day or two of actually talking because I get aggressive >_>

After this I'll have 13 posts left in the day and I think I'll save that for tomorrow in case ya'll make me get up out of my rocking chair and whip votes.

[nancy]

oh shit you bold your votes, I always use tags and keep track mentally

I bold my votes when it's a scumread I'm not really sure on. Vote tags means that I'm pretty darn confident. Probably something like 60-65% or lower would be a bolded vote; above that I'd use the tags; might depend on context too even if it's a read I feel good about, there are circumstances where I won't always feel great about pushing it for any number of reasons.

[nancy]

sorry for being so quiet but as you can see, I can kinda easily burn through all my posts in about a day or two of actually talking because I get aggressive >_>

After this I'll have 13 posts left in the day and I think I'll save that for tomorrow in case ya'll make me get up out of my rocking chair and whip votes.

Haven't actually been trying to conserve mine (although I think I was at the start of the day), just haven't been caught up the whole time so all my posts ended up being catchup walls.

[nancy]

This does give me a pretty good buffer going into tomorrow though I think; definitely will have to scale back my posting compared to how I usually am which I don't think will be a bad thing given that I can definitely be pretty lazy a lot of the time and not really put a ton of thought into things as I post them - kind of what I'm trying to eliminate in my meta shift.

[Sunlit Diamond]

I've had suspicion regarding Vecna's slot since before he replaced in, and his actions since he arrived haven't actually changed that lean.

Aristophanes was friendly and funny, but didn't contribute a lot. I started questioning when I realized I irrationally liked him, but didn't have a particularly good reason for feeling that way. I've seen this in action before, and I don't trust it.

On top of that, most of of Vecna's arguments seem "explain-y" rather than like genuine scumhunting; I don't quite know how to verbalize what I mean, although I'm sure there's some nifty phrase in MS lexicon that would work.

Outside his arguments, I get an overwhelming LAMIST feel from his behavior. I get the impression he's trying to set himself up as town leader, but it's forced. I don't like it.

I also do not believe his PR claim, for pretty much the exact reasons Nancy listed. If he actually is a PR, I'd like to know more. If what we learn isn't satisfactory, I'd like to lynch him.

VOTE: Vecna

[nancy]

If he actually is a PR, I'd like to know more. If what we learn isn't satisfactory, I'd like to lynch him.

Can we skip the hearing his fakeclaim part and just lynch him?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I don't buy Vecna's claim and his tone from Ginngie is suspect. Also the timing of his claim is off and the way he wants to reveal his PR role is off.

[humaneatingmonkey]

But I'm not caught up in full so I'm not gonna vote yet.

[Vecna]

Alright I'm caught up finally; I flat don't believe Vecna's claim at all; literally nothing about the way he claimed is town and if he did have a confirmable pr I think he would be a fuck of a lot more indignant about being run up than he has been; the kind of survivalism that he's displayed in the claim is something that I think is far more likely to come from scum and what basically amounts to a sigh of regret in 555 isn't something that I find believable at all from a PR who knows that they can confirm themselves through night actions. Not interested in lynching anywhere else today; the claim aside I think he's completely flat tonally, I dislike his progressions, I dislike his votes, I dislike basically everything coming from that slot right now.

I think the way he entered with a scumread on me is pretty sketchy given that I think I've been pretty transparently town this game and was the only slot pushing him at that point in time; Civilization was months ago and I was a newbie and VI back then, absolutely no way I should be playing like that anymore - think if Vecna were town he would be pretty happy to see the development in my play rather than scumread me for it in the way that he has; pretty obvious difference I think in his treatment of that compared with the way monkey has been overall hesistant about it and has actually engaged with it critically overall - especially considering how recent my game with monkey was.

I dislike the way that he's tried to play up the Korts/monkey/massive trio as something to orient his reads / the gamestate around; it feels like faux-scumhunting and I think it's a pretty easy way to posture around scumreading a slot you've stated a townread on and just a fake way to hold scumreads in general; the progression from his entrance where Korts looks like a pretty strong townread to 489 to voting Korts isn't one that makes sense to me at all; 577 feels pretty ad-hoc overall and I don't think someone having different reads than you do is good reasoning at all and not something that Vecna would scumread if he were town.

The way that he's interacted with Tchill feels particularly sketchy in that he initially came in saying that the reasoning for scum!Tchill was pretty poor then moved to voting him right after Korts started pushing that wagon again; think the way that unvoted and suddenly seemed fine with Tchill's play after the vigilante claim then voted him again for pretty much no reason at all is pretty bad. The way that he's engaged with Tchill overall from the claim to the appeasing and everything is just not something that makes sense coming from town pretty much ever. 540 and 543 in particular are just obscenely scummy.

Don't think he's actually given any substantive reasoning for his massive scumread or really any of his scumreads at all for that matter; haven't seen him display any kind of feeling about his townreads; think he's probably pretty content to scumread just about anyone here and nothing he's done so far has felt like he cares about solving the game so much as looking for slots he thinks he can lynch. Basically don't think there's anything from his play that could make me believe he's town here.

Youre really gonna claim I wasnt indignant after I got voted by Tchill and Gin for bullshit reasons? I saw this nonsense coming from a mile away, and was hinting towards gin allready I was a PR and he needed to fuck off to avoid my claim.

Youre really gonna claim you were a VI in the original civ game? All your posts here just feel like you put a lot of effort into them to sound credible - but very little of your posting actually is town here. Thinking youre "obv-town" here while you werent in the original civ-game is a joke, and shows some really poor judgement or bluffing on your part.

Ive stated all along that I think the Tchill wagon was a mistake, but I was alright seeing a flip to have ammo to go after my read scumreads in Massive/Korts/Monkey. If you think that sort of reasoning is ever gonna come from scum, youre delusional or scum yourself.

[Vecna]

Vecna do you have anything about me specifically that you find scummy, or is it all associative?

Its pure intuition and gut. Youre good enough to not leave a too obvious trail, and you havent posted enough yet for me to nail you down.

Youre scum though

[Vecna]

Also youre not shooting anyone tonight

Thats my claim/hint I was talking about fyi. Im sure you can figure it out.

[Vecna]

At any rate, Nancy is scum here. That big wall post comes from scum knowing they need a lot of justification for lynching a PR. It fits very well in a pattern of only long well-crafted posts. What happened to your live interactions and free flowing thoughts you often displayed in civ Nancy?

[Sunlit Diamond]

Vecna, you have yet to even get L-1, let alone get intent to hammer. Why did you jump the PR claim gun?