mafia pt released on endgame

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Post Post #58 (isolation #0) » Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:35 am

Post by Zachstralkita »

In post 11, Ircher wrote:It's a courtesy thing.

I believe in releasing pts, but you should have the option of having your content being removed/filtered.
In post 50, Ircher wrote:Always / never rules dont exist.

This should be left to the moderator
and players
to decide.
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Post Post #60 (isolation #1) » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:23 am

Post by Zachstralkita »

In post 59, kuribo wrote:
In post 58, Zachstralkita wrote:
In post 11, Ircher wrote:It's a courtesy thing.

I believe in releasing pts, but you should have the option of having your content being removed/filtered.
In post 50, Ircher wrote:Always / never rules dont exist.

This should be left to the moderator
and players
to decide.

Why should you be allowed to remove relevant parts of the game?

Should you be allowed to remove posts from a completed game as well?


Relevant how? At least let the players filter what they post in a... private ... topic as to not cause drama if they posted anything that otherwise would, for posterity's sake. Let the players redact what they want before they're released. Players are given a private topic completely by chance, so let them be private in that because in (Scum)(Mason)(Neighboroods)PTs there is basically raw theory talk and intricate thought processes and because of this people speak unfiltered on players and the game itself because of the security of the "private" topic. These are rights that they should have, at the very least.


Completed game posts aren't the same as PTs for... several reasons, that I don't even think we should attempt the comparison? Let the game moderator decide what to do with PTs rather than creating an unnecessary blanket rule. The way I see it, if someone put their time and effort into running a particular game, they should decide what they do with their private topics, not other people or general policy. The option to redact things before the PTs go out should always be there. Because of the intimacy of PTs there's benefit to reading them and learning to better your play. It's in everyone's best interest that the players in the private topics can redact what [they] said in [their] private topics, to be honest.
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Post Post #61 (isolation #2) » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:35 am

Post by Zachstralkita »

I think forcing private topics to be 100% released with zero redactions places an unfair ethical implication on the concept of a "Private" Topic and doesn't address how unique they are in and of themselves, or how unique people that play mafia are. It's largely obstructive.
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Post Post #69 (isolation #3) » Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:34 am

Post by Zachstralkita »

In post 63, kuribo wrote:
In post 60, Zachstralkita wrote:These are rights that they should have, at the very least.
Why?

Your shitty meta is not my responsibility.

Your inability to speak of other players without being a dick is not my responsibility either.
See below.
kuribo wrote:The idea is that scum PTs are not private conversations, they're game related conversations that are part of a game.
Which is what my stance acknowledges. If they say something that can be considered excessive it's probably not "game-related" to the point where you need to see it, so they can redact it. The players by all rights, should be able to redact things. Policing how they do so would be stupid. Insisting that they not is weird. Your position is rather black-and-white and I'm not equipped to articulate what I mean precisely, but someone else probably can, I'd hope.
kuribo wrote:
In post 60, Zachstralkita wrote:Because of the intimacy of PTs there's benefit to reading them and learning to better your play. It's in everyone's best interest that the players in the private topics can redact what [they] said in [their] private topics, to be honest.
Except it's part of the game, a written record of events that occurred involving players other than the solipsistic scum partner who doesn't want his shitty meta out there or his shitty comments.
It's more intricate than what you've generalized my arguments to, for one you think I'm trying to save people who are disrespectful (or happen to be weak scum players) which means you're already trying to doubtcast my argument. It's more complex than that. It's faulty to deal in absolutes, too. What goes on in PTs is only your business if the moderator says it is, anyway. The players in those PTs have probably put as much effort into playing to their wincon as everyone else, so if they want to redact shit then let them. If something's abusive to the point where intervention would be needed it would be dealt with otherwise and thus not be a question. If they want to redact the post where they talk about hot dogs then let them? I don't see why it's a major issue unless you have some problem relating to this that I... probably... have no concern for, considering I think the game is fine the way it is and I don't think the way PTs work so far have been any problem, unless there's a convincing reason you WANT to know everything everyone says because one hundred percent knowledge of the full raw gamestate is absolutely essential. Which I can say I would then disagree with.
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Post Post #74 (isolation #4) » Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:24 pm

Post by Zachstralkita »

In post 70, kuribo wrote:
In post 69, Zachstralkita wrote:If they say something that can be considered excessive it's probably not "game-related" to the point where you need to see it, so they can redact it. T

So all non-game related posts should be removed from games at the users request?
Lol, no. It goes back to PTs are different.

In post 71, kuribo wrote:By definition any exchange that takes place in a game- whether in scum PTs or outside of it- is game related
Sure, but textbooks are boring and impractical at times.
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Post Post #77 (isolation #5) » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:44 am

Post by Zachstralkita »

In post 75, kuribo wrote:
In post 74, Zachstralkita wrote:Lol, no. It goes back to PTs are different

How? They're part of the game, they're events directly influencing a game, and thus should be an undoctored record of said game.

Rather tangential point of argument I... probably don't even care to get into remotely. Cheers.

In post 76, Zachrulez wrote:I still think the name private topic is the wrong name for it.

The whole idea of the scum topic being a special bastion of privacy I think stems from an era of mafia play before it was possible to keep records of scum chat. (It's not that we were respecting the privacy of scum talk all the way back in 2008 or whatever, it just kind of ended up that way because we really didn't have the means to keep a record of scum talk.)

Changing it now because of the "definition" of privacy and the fact that everything that happens at all needs to be documented like a courtroom trial I guess makes very little sense at all and I doubt anyone would move for this besides the people who've been campaigning for it.
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