Mini Normal 1931 | Endgame

[wavemode]

please unvote. Skittles is town.

Eddie knows this because he's scum.

VOTE: Eddie Cane

[wavemode]

VOTE: Ausuka

[wavemode]

@Ausuka have you been playing this game for 2 days? Or are you an alt

[wavemode]

Sorry the game's so quiet. The boys and I are busy daytalking in the mafia chat.

[wavemode]

Dunker's fine, some players are just like that. Not sure why Ausuka tried to make such a big deal out of it. That's why I asked if she was experienced.

[wavemode]

Explain your townlean on Ausuka

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@unabombah, what do you find forced about flavor leaf

Posts #130 and #140 for example.

For one, I dont feel selfvoting is ever a "natural" reaction to pressure. We are not deep into the game, but we shouldnt keep playing RVS either.

Scumreading Una for being so tryhard that he is digging up meta from 14 years ago.

[wavemode]

(if you didn't get the joke - your links used "post=#130", i.e. a global reference, instead of "post=130", a reference within this game. So your links go somewhere very old.)

[wavemode]

We are. You're just so obvious that we decided to lynch you later on and get the important people now.

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I have no idea why my reads are so similar to rb's.

Wouldn't that tell you that you're town together?

[wavemode]

The scumteam is Thor666, Sunlit Diamond, and Ausuka.

[wavemode]

You can be whatever you put your mind to young one.

[wavemode]

is this a joke? or do u have real reasoning for it?

Yes.

[wavemode]

Flavor Leaf is a mislynch.

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If anyone hammers FL without declaring intent and giving him a chance to claim or make final statements they are confirmed scum.

[wavemode]

I think you accidentally a word.

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I mean, if FL flips town it would show everyone that this wagon was stupid and very obviously fueled with scum votes.

That said, unlike most day one lynchbait I think FL is actually useful to town so it's better we just don't kill him.

[wavemode]

@NTRP; Do you think scum would have had time to effectively build a counterwagon? If the answer is yes; who is scum on the wagon who opts to be on it instead of counterwagoning?

You.

[wavemode]

rb is town.

Pretty sure we've solved the game.

VOTE: Sunlit Diamond

[wavemode]

i think scum is in the oeople who have moved from leaf. I think scum were scared of bring on the mislynch and scared of me tunnelling them for it. 9/10 mafia players are terrified of me if you aren't aware.

I mean, they'd have to be pretty stupid to do that in such a manner.

I think you're trying to ascribe textbook strategies to real-life actions, but that doesn't really work. Real people don't act like they do in the mafia textbook.

[wavemode]

rb and dunker moved. And yes, if they're scum they would have to be stupid to move their vote like that just to avoid being on a mislynch. In reality they would double down and insist that they really do believe that flavor is scum.

[wavemode]

I approve of the Sunlight counter wagon.

The Sunlight case for me is - opportunism.

I don't understand your position.

[wavemode]

As for the Sunlit case, look no farther than #175, #176, #177, and #178. I can't imagine Ausuka and SD both flipping town after a tag-team like that.

And I can't imagine FL flipping scum, in general. Wagons on scum just don't form this quickly. And FL has not even been acting all that scummy, to deserve a 36-hour L-1 with intent.

Pretty sure rb gained lots of towncred and his tunnel on FL encouraged scum votes. Like "yeah, go on rb. You got em!" while they laugh to themselves in daychat.

SD and Ausuka are our best lynches. If I had to guess another scum on that wagon I'd say Thor.

[wavemode]

I don't understand the point you're making, actually. I said those things

after

the posts I just referenced.

And I'm not coming up with this now, I came up with it then. Thor's recent comments have nothing to do with it. Did I say that they did?

[wavemode]

But if youd already thought thor was scum, why are you assessing his words like you dont already think hes scum?

Point is, it seems you've concluded prior to any reasoning and are either confbiasing or just making shit up

So because I have a theory that someone is likely scum I can't scrutinize their words anymore? I genuinely wanted to understand what his position actually was.

And you're not actually making any sense anymore. 177 I believe is the posts in question and 40 posts later I call a scumteam, for these reasons I'm giving now. It would be different if I called the team and then after that they did these things. In that case I would just be confbias. But here right now I'm literallu just saying what I was thinking back before. I just didn't consider it important to say at the time.

And you still haven't asked why I actually thought Thor was scum. It has nothing to do with his recent comments, as I've already stated.

[wavemode]

My general read on Ausuka and SD is largely gut. I think you two use very surface-level reasons to throw shade at people simply for not acting how you expect.

In that post SD made a weird attempt to help you keep rb at arm's length, for no apparent reason. So that was something concrete I felt could offer since people started asking rb for explanations. This is our best lynch but we still need to convince people to join on. Or else what's the point of scumhunting? So we get to say at the end of the game "look, we were right but noone listened"? pfft

[wavemode]

How do you feel about the Sunlight wagon, which...formed rather quickly last I checked.
What makes it different?
And, if not different, why are you still voting it?

Uh, this doesn't really track logically. Yes, it's unlikely for wagons to form on scum quickly, but that's not my only reason for thinking FL is town. That would be foolish. I think he's town because I don't scumread his actions. Conversely, I wouldn't flip around my scumread on SD simply because people are agreeing with me.

[wavemode]

I don't scumread him. And he is counter-aligned to the people I gut scumread. Simple as that.

[wavemode]

Scumread on Ausuka is already asymptotically reaching 100% so I'm disregarding her shade throwing.

[wavemode]

Your pokemon is bullshit. Cyndaquil is so much better than Vulpix.

[wavemode]

I also forgot to respond to that - am I the only one who reads the modposts? They explicitly say that the scum have daytalk.

[wavemode]

Who?

[wavemode]

I was asking questions and gathering information

That's an interesting assertion. Can you give me an example of you asking someone questions and gathering information from that? I can't seem to find a single one.

[wavemode]

Hey, you're the one who made the statement. I just don't really think it's true. Feel free to prove me wrong with examples from your ISO.

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Why is it such a red flag for Ciara to think I'm town and that Una is scum? Assuming you're right about me, couldn't Ciara just be naive?

[wavemode]

Then why is rb in your town pile? He thinks I'm town and that Una is scum.

[wavemode]

Una then how do you feel about Sunlit and Ausuka?

[wavemode]

@Thor Actually you misunderstood that. She was saying that she townreads rb because he has more content.

[wavemode]

Paul is town.

Thor could be scum, who knows. Not sure how he's a better lynch right now than SD though, or the scumlord vulpix.

[wavemode]

@Perfect Fifth; Why would you claim PR at this point in the game?
@skitter30; That's interesting. I think I found the game you were referring to (Newbie 1797?) Your case in Dunker was because he couldn't give reasoning for his vote and unvoted when pressured. Although it does show that Dunker can be scummy as town, I don't think that's the same as what's happened this game; he wasn't pressured, but he voluntarily gave up his vote and stopped scumhunting while appealing to rb.

I still agree with pretty much everything SD is saying and I have a townread there.

I don't really like 131- it feels like busywork. I don't like 140 either. It just seems like there's no actual good reason to self-vote there; it could be a sarcastic meme, but it's just way too awkward, especially since they haven't unvoted yet.
I don't really like Ciara's fixation on Unabombah. He looks like town so far and she's basically used her vote on him to avoid pushing or actually doing anything other than a few statements. I could vote there. (I have no idea why my reads are so similar to rb's.)

I feel like NTRP isn't that suspicious. Sure, he hasn't done that much, but he took the step to call Una scum over PF and has contributed @ Dunkerdoodles.

I'd be willing to vote in {Ciara24, Dunkerdoodles, Flavour Leaf} at this point in time.

Beautiful. Now they're both on me.

Self-voting is a damn good strategy if it draws out scum this easily. FL is definitely useful to town.

[wavemode]

Why is that quote there?

Disregard the quote, I think I clicked something accidentally. The above quote has nothing to do with what I was saying.

[wavemode]

I think we all have different definitions of pro-town.

Like, I define pro-town as things that help town.

For example, FL's self-vote? That helped town. If you don't see why then you're not paying attention to what's been happening in the game.

[wavemode]

he says I made an effort to help rb at arm's length. I did no such thing. I had no reason to believe rb was town when I posted about him, and have since changed my mind.

Sorry, I don't understand this. Is that a typo? Or did you misread. I said "help keep rb at arm's length". As in, you were resistant, like Ausuka was, to the idea that Ausuka should consider rb towny since they have the same reads. You had an attitude of, well, let's see whether his reads are right or not, then decide if he's scum. Which is a pretty scummy attitude to have, IMO. "If he is scum, the holes in his reads will become apparent as time passes." Uhhh, what? Even if he's town, holes will start to appear in his reads. How can town know for sure anything? You basically just declared intent to turn on rb once flavor leaf flipped town.

[wavemode]

Activity is NAI.

[wavemode]

That's what the trusty mafia wiki told me when I was a young boy.

[wavemode]

VOTE: Ausuka

Oh hey kids

Let's take a field trip to the past

VOTE: Perfect Fifth

Non-RVS

This is scum

Sheep me to victory thx

ok
VOTE: perfect fifth

VOTE: Perfect Fifth

I'm being blatantly oppurtunistic in the name of wagoning scumfucks.

@Perfect Fifth; Why would you claim PR at this point in the game?
@skitter30; That's interesting. I think I found the game you were referring to (Newbie 1797?) Your case in Dunker was because he couldn't give reasoning for his vote and unvoted when pressured. Although it does show that Dunker can be scummy as town, I don't think that's the same as what's happened this game; he wasn't pressured, but he voluntarily gave up his vote and stopped scumhunting while appealing to rb.

I still agree with pretty much everything SD is saying and I have a townread there.

Why did Ausuka sheep rb, then turn around and insist (not suggest, but actively insist) that Dunkerdoodles was scummy for doing the same thing? And for some reason she seems very certain about someone who several people said and provided evidence that his actions are not necessarily scum-indicative for him. And she repeatedly dismissed any arguments to the contrary.

@skitter30/wavemode: It

could

simply be a matter of personality or playstyle, in that Dunker is choosing to sit back in the early-game. However, I feel like him abandoning his (presumably serious?) vote immediately to help rb is somewhat suspicious, and posts afterwards like 61 make me feel like he's trying to get on rb's good side. It's weak, but right now, I don't have anything better.

Doesn't feel like a "weak" read to me. Feels like a fixation.

Also keep in mind that at the point in the game that Ausuka said this:

Nothing I say or do is scummy. Do better.

I think Perfect is a better lynch because, although both are kind of awkward, Unabombah's awkwardness feels personality-based and Perfect's doesn't.

ThinkBig had literally only one post of substance, which was #19. If that one post makes him a "scumfuck" then Ausuka must be some kind of genius.

Bottom line is I think Ausuka is more suspicious for trying to back up her vote with dumb reasoning, than Dunker for simply sheeping. She clearly is more worried about how people will perceive her voting, than the vote itself.

mic drop

[wavemode]

Why did Ausuka sheep rb, then turn around and insist (not suggest, but actively insist) that Dunkerdoodles was scummy for doing the same thing?

I like your case okay and don't trust the Ausuka slot - but this is a misrep or misunderstanding of her stated position since her issue involved not his vote, but his unvote.
Does that thought adjust your case?

That's true but sort of missing the point. Ausuka's problem was that Dunker wasnt generating reads or asking questions, yet it was literally only page 2/3 of the game - she herself only had BS reasons to go off of, and was clearly just following the crowd on Perfect Fifth rather than thinking to go on him herself. And even later when Dunker started asking people some questions and participating in the game, Ausuka did not reverse or reconsider her scumread on him, she doubled down further.

[wavemode]

VOTE: Dunkerdoodles
You're approaching this entire thing way too awkwardly. Instead of helping rb and making reads / generating reactions, you're just sitting back and agreeing with everything he says. I get that this isn't entirely serious, but it's also not what I'd expect from town.

pedit:

[wavemode]

So you're saying inactivity is a meta tell for ThinkBig? But someone mentioned that he did that in a previous game and flipped town.

[wavemode]

Does your Vulpix know Ember?

[wavemode]

Meh, you're still failing to see the forest through the trees with your rebuttal, if it can be called that. Bottom line is you had no good reason to want to lynch PF over one post, you had no good reason to feel so strongly about scum!dunker and disagree with everyone's counterarguments, especially after he did start participating more independently, and you have no good reason to be so certain of scum!wavemode either. All of your reads are purely based on whatever best suits you in the current situation.

And frankly, you play and sound like newbscum.

[wavemode]

I'm pretty confident in wave!scum because you're trying to push a mislynch confidently on really, really, really weak logic, and everything you do is shaped around your """theory""" of Aus/SD without actually participating or doing anything useful.

Three statements, three lies:

1. That your reason for thinking I'm scum is for pushing a mislynch. You voted me not while I was on you, but while I was still on SD. rb was on that as well yet you townread him. In fact rb is the one who started that wagon.

2. That i'm not participating

3. That's I'm not doing anything useful

You're hurting my feelings vulpix.

[wavemode]

Now he means business.

[wavemode]

Meh, I'd vote Thor if it came down to it.

Ausuka's the better lynch.

[wavemode]

Do you still townread Ausuka

[wavemode]

Well she's certainly not scum with Ausuka.

[wavemode]

Music to my ears.

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Why does feeling better about skitter mean Ausuka is town

[wavemode]

Because most of my personal issues with her were odd reads on her reads list, but if you're town and are also low poster, it doesn't make a ton of sense to bother buddying you for no reason.

I think skitter is the one who initiated it with her #108. Assuming skitter is town, scum!Ausuka would clearly see someone like that as an ally not worth attacking.

[wavemode]

Now we have TB and MM4

And here I thought this game was going to be boring

[wavemode]

VOTE: Sunlit Diamond

[wavemode]

Ok well

scum winrates go up when you lynch scum day1. its for a myriad reasons we wont get into but this fact is empirically valid

so funfact: i wish to remove one of the most obstructionist players from the game in thor. his emotion could be fake or real, and ppl are getting turned off his interactions - this is a serious problem because the longer the game goes, the more difficult it will be to play with a town thor or against a thor scum.

i also think hes just scum so thats like a bonus, but i dont think day1 is best spent agonizing 5ever over trying to find a scum on the statistically most unlikely day to find one.

i think ausuka/MM4 is town as well now, so with them town and thor's weird interactions over that slot, i think thor is evenmorescum

perfect fifth/thinkbig is the other lynch ill entertain today, if not thor

This... this post is bad. Very bad.

[wavemode]

rb why is your personal dispute with Thor now the whole town's problem? You sound like you're calling for a policy lynch on someone who

you

picked a fight with. It wasn't the other way around. He wasn't being obstructionist at all. I mean, Thor could be scum, and you could go ahead and present evidence of that to convince us of that... but I'm failing to understand how killing town!Thor here would be beneficial to the town like you are trying to argue.

Also, he doesn't scumread Ausuka. Not sure why you're suddenly so sure she is town, but if she is, that's not a point against him. You made a very vague argument here that sounds like grasping at straws.

You've also shrunk your lynching pool to two people - literally one person who hasn't participated in the game at all and another who you've just been arguing with meaninglessly for days. Not sure how every other lynch has been suddenly ruled out in your mind but that strikes me as very strange, and your targets seem like low-hanging fruit, and in the context of your whole post that sounds like you are no longer interested in game-solving.

[wavemode]

and the playstyle thor has rn is pretty much scum to the letter

he gets into a big debate not about points where he's trying to solve the game - but in an argument defending himself for 3 fucking pages of **MUH EMOTIONS** when he's at what, L-6???

THOR IS AT L-6 AND HAVING 3 PAGE LONG WALL OF TEXT ARGUMENTS WITH PEOPLE

and prior to this most of his points are just addressing minor inconsistencies with arguments e.g. "this minor point on Ausuka is wrong, but your general direction is indeed correct" - he's subtly pushing the Ausuka wagon while simultaneously distancing himself from the 'bad reasoning' - i guarantee if we lynched Ausuka and he flipped town, Thor would be wall-of-text shitting all over your minor inconsistency and trying to get you lynched tomorrow, wave. his agenda is already set from day1, his major concern is not solving the game - but in doing everything he can to make that attempts to sort HIS OWN alignment are thwarted. look where thor is concentrating his efforts, think about why he's doing this.

and then realise that even if he's town, this is a completely abysmal obstructionist playstyle that we can live without.

Again, you're using debate that you and eddie initiated as evidence of Thor being scum. That pings me bad because he could have just ignored all the things you and eddie were saying about him, and then you could just as easily call him out for dodging your accusations. You are literally forcing a catch-22 here and it's ridiculously bad play, I hope you realize that.

Pointing out some inconsistencies in an argument is also too NAI for me, sorry. You've explained why it makes sense for scum to do it but not why it is so inconceivable that town would do it. That's called a bad read.

This Thor push suddenly stinks to me. And TB is null.

I'm sticking with SD for now, in any case. I stand by that at least one of SD/Ausuka is scum, and now SD is the more likely. And I stand by my previous arguments for scum!SD. Furthermore, MM4 and SD suddenly and simultaneously flipping around on almost all of their past arguments and hard pushing on each other is making my scum senses tingle. They could be scum together and this is two-way bussing.

[wavemode]

As I've said before, SD and Ausuka's early game was spent throwing shade at people who were low-hanging fruit rather than actually trying to question people and understand their motives. And they were actively helping each other do it. In my mind there's no reason for two random town slots to be that buddied with each other.

Possibly

one town and one scum.

Their general tone was also gut-bad for me. They tried to make things people did seem worse than they really were. In many cases they might consider something to be "weird"... but their logical jump from that to it being actually scum-indicative was always lacking.

You're right that they've both since turned around but their recent simultaneous retractions of their arguments and push on each other is not making me feel any better about them. We could be seeing the power of daychat at work. And also, just in general I don't flip around my scumreads just because the person stopped doing what I called them out as scum for doing,

after

I call them out. I mean, of course they will do that, if they are trying to be townread.

[wavemode]

Also! I based my initial read of you on a scan of your ISO that felt funky to me. You have since posted a lot, I reread the entire thread and your ISO, and my opinion changed. Why is that worth a scumread?

p-edit: that was mildly creepy eddie

How do you feel about MM4's posting being strange because he was trying a new playstyle? Does that not cause you to question your scumread on him?

[wavemode]

This game is such a soap opera

Why did rb complain so much about AtE in Thor's posts then spew all this nonsense

And why am I suddenly on rb's radar simply for disagreeing on Thor and preferring SD

And why is rb suddenly so resistant to lynching SD

Speaking of SD, I'm pretty sure she's just seeing the facts the way she wants to see them, rather than evaluating them earnestly. I still want this lynched.

Bleh, going to bed

[wavemode]

wow mulch is a lot more useful than ciara was

hey mulch are you in my pocket yet or do you need more compliments

wavemode/mm4 team would be a quite a show to put on. That said, I'm still in favor of an mm4 lynch, in case that was unclear. I think mm4 and ausuka are still the same person with the same motivations. I'm just not convinced SD is town right now either. Sorry but I find the notion laughable that she hasn't been paying any attention to the arguments against ausuka this whole game but suddenly now finds every single thing she's done since the day started to be scummy. I don't like her repetitive insistence that rd v Thor was town vs. town (for basically no logical reason, I might add), then when someone took issue with it, suddenly she's like "well let me double check his ISO" and then now she's willing to vote him. and call this tinfoil hattery but, as ive said before, I really really don't like this simultaneous turnaround from both mm4 and sd from scumreading me to scumreading each other. I don't like how weirdly certain SD suddenly is about mm4, almost to the point of being willing to put herself on the line for it. This all just feels like a two-way bus.

Consider me on both wagons.

[wavemode]

I think

Mulch is secretly a mafia genius or something

With how he's drawn out this reaction from mm4

Or maybe just a very lucky fool

Either way

Still very much in favor of an mm4 lynch

[wavemode]

I can't

It's a gutread

Gutreads don't make sense

[wavemode]

You don't

Anyway, I think we're seeing glimpses of Ausuka

That are somewhat un-mm4-like

[wavemode]

Mulch is hard to read but I'm pretty sure Ciara was town

[wavemode]

Don't think most of the arguments people have against her are really AI, unless there is some meta reading going on

She was opposed to both SD and Ausuka. There is scum in there.

Yup that's all I got

[wavemode]

Actually I take that back, on review she was no longer opposed to SD at the end there. SO that associative read is invalid. Meh.

[wavemode]

I think rb is scum.

[wavemode]

rb's anger and reasons for being angry are starting to feel quite forced. Statements like "At a minimum we have 5 town players who're literally dead weight" and "You can just win because these worthless sacks are irredeemably shit at the game" I would sort of expect from someone who just joined the site but not someone with any kind of experience. Most town are dead weight in general and if you have any experience then you already know that. It seems sort of silly that like 9/10 of rb's posts are so focused on how bad people are playing. Starting to feel like the whole, act annoyed at town for playing bad so they think I'm emotionally invested in the game, play.

It started with his whole argument for it being good for us to kill Thor even if he's town, and it's just steadily gotten worse since then. I can't really see town!rb getting so wrapped up in irrelevant nonsense and insults in such a large majority of his posts. I don't know if someone more familiar with him can say that's meta-normal but it's striking me as very scummy at this point.

Anyway, just my 0.02

[wavemode]

My brain works like, I feel like the majority of town in the average game don't really do all that much so you must really lose your shit a lot if it's such an issue for you

And in a lot of cases in this game, you blow up simply for people disagreeing with you. Not sure how you're so sure of your reads and why nobody else's opinions matter but that must also cause you to blow up at people often because most people don't just sheep cases in general. You're always going to have people disagreeing with your logic.

This is also why I asked for some meta-info because, hey, maybe you are just a hothead in general. I don't know at this point.

[wavemode]

Well if that's true I think it's pretty bad play, it doesn't win anyone to your side to call them idiots and pieces of shit

And you should remember it's just a game and take a deep breath sometimes

[wavemode]

Why? There's no Mulch case. None. It's nonexistent

I think there's no real Ciara case either but I could be wrong, maybe someone could present it to me

[wavemode]

He could get out of it when people realize you're all refusing to present a case, and scumreading anyone who simply asks for one

[wavemode]

You're approaching this backwards.

You

asked

us

for Mulch votes. I'm asking you what is so scummy about him that I should move from SD, who I do scumread.

I personally would not claim this early in a game like this no matter what. There's no way to prove the claim anyway so it doesn't clear me. It just gives free information to the scumteam since I probably haven't got a chance to use my power yet. It's better to just hope the wagon dies, like they usually do after L-1, especially when it is seeming like people are voting on a whim and not for concrete reasons.

[wavemode]

You're right, I missed that.

You say you didn't like mulch's push on you. Do you think it was a scum strategy? Was he trying to get you lynched? Or is there a different angle to that that you're focusing on?

[wavemode]

Alright so you think he was trying to get you lynched and that it was strategic. Okay, that's fair enough I guess. But surely you understand why I'm too skeptical to throw my vote there and away from SD for just that reason? He himself said that the read was gut and didn't make logical sense so it'd be a very strange way to actually try to strategically get someone lynched.

Furthermore, I can't really be certain mulch is wrong and that you're town so I don't know what to make of that as a third-party observer. Like, it's fine if that's your reason for wanting him dead but fmpov I can't be so sure. Does that make sense?

[wavemode]

This early as in Day 1 in a closed game.

[wavemode]

Daycops aren't listed as Normal but I suppose nothing specifically says they're

not

Normal...

[wavemode]

I'm at a conference on my phone so if you want me to repeat my whole SD case again (rather than, you know, just looking at my iso...) then you'll have to wait for me to get to a computer, one of these days.

[wavemode]

@mod: Desperado Mario

grabs popcorn

Pedit: damnit don't get my hopes up like that

[wavemode]

raises hand

er, I also think town!mm4 would have indicated that he was town in twilight after someone vigged. But he kept up the aggression here and showed no uncertainty

But hey, maybe this is all 5D chess coming out from mulch

continues munching popcorn

[wavemode]

Not claim town, but indicate that if mulch is really a Desperado then he's about to die.

It's minor though. I still prefer an SD lynch

[wavemode]

Lol I don't think Eddie is at good at mafia as he thinks he is

So I'm gonna just go out on a limb and say that Thor and mulch are both town here

[wavemode]

That's because I still think you're town

Like, you have to understand, I genuinely just have not been convinced whatsoever by the cases on Thor or mulch. I generally just townread the posts they've made this game. However I've been called and idiot piece of shit on multiple occasions now for not being willing to change my vote so at the back of my mind I thought maybe I was just not experienced enough to see what people were seeing.

So yeah, your push for scum wavemode is now telling me that you just like to blow things out of proportion so I'm going to just stick to my guns and say those two are town.

[wavemode]

This is the best soap opera since the rb Thor Eddie love triangle

[wavemode]

Guys

I think I might have been wrong about mulch

[wavemode]

FIRST

VOTE: mariomaker4

[wavemode]

Well

I don't think MM4 is obvtown like everyone seems to think

I don't think nightkilling SD there makes any sense for me to do if I'm scum. Even as WIFOM that's weird

Also I was right about mulch so haha

Eh, that's all I got. If you really think I'm Thor's partner then I don't know how to prove to you I'm not. I just think he's town, plain and simple.

[wavemode]

Eddie your vote does not matter to me because you're simply wrong and that was proven yesterday. You had a wave/thor/mulch theory and that was shown to be wrong but you're still dead-set on believing you had it partially right so you're just running down the rest of that list. You have no real case except by association. I'm struggling to see anything scummy in those posts you referenced, just certain things you consider to be bad town play, or associative reads with thor. Only thing is maybe being sure that flavor was a mislynch, but I mean, I say things like that just generally. I've seen enough day 1 mislynches to know one when I see one... the day I'm wrong is the day I'll stop saying that.

You're also giving me a migraine, sorry to say, and I'm not getting in some 10 page debate with you just so you can turn around and say I'm scummy for being defensive. You make a big stink about everything and you talk like you know everything and everyone is an idiot and nobody is allowed to disagree with your scumreads or else they're scum. It would be fine if we were getting results but here you are tunneling on 3 people and simply wrong on 2 of them, and also probably the third, and just leading the town off a cliff at this point. I'm truly just not super interested in the opinions or comments of you or rb anymore so either kill me or leave me alone.

[wavemode]

I'll post some reads tomorrow.

[wavemode]

What case

[wavemode]

We're talking about vigilantes because 5 minutes into the day mm4 went "hey that was probably a vig kill"...

[wavemode]

SD was hard scum reading mm4, by the way. Very hard

[wavemode]

Weirdest kill ever

I doubt mario is scum at all

There's no actual evidence that it wasn't a scum kill, though... you just immediately steered us to start believing that it wasn't one.

And how did you get to scum reading me even though mulch flipped town? Your only read was that I had "associative tells" with him

[wavemode]

Right, and I've already said, there is one scum who would actually have motivation for SD to die, which is you. Or even someone trying to frame you. Or someone trying to discredit Thor. There's a million reasons yet you're suddenly so certain it was vig and want us to stop discussing it.

[wavemode]

My reasons for pushing you are the events of yesterday mm4, and they haven't changed.

[wavemode]

Nice strawman. I scumread you as well.

[wavemode]

Re-reading the game, post incoming

@NTRP what is scummy about 1545?

[wavemode]

Okay back on my computer. As promised I will give my current outlook on the game. I suppose I must put a bit more effort into putting my thoughts into words now that I'm the top wagon.

Lean town:

Una

- Una's posts in this game show pretty genuine analysis. If he's scum he's got me fooled. That said, maybe I'm just biased toward Umbreons.

Thor665

- Thor's actions and pushes haven't seemed scum-motivated to me and he has approached this game logically. This opinion is weaker now that SD flipped town but that's not really enough for me to completely change my mind here.

skitter30

- Er this one's weak tbh but I've just generally seen good town-motivated mindset coming from a lot of her posts so I've had a soft townread here since the early game.

wavemode

- This guy's been super towny. I nominate him as town leader. I think someone is going to need to calmly dumb down for me why this mulch thing is such a big deal because I'm not quite getting it. I townread mulch's early posts as well as ciara's, then I didn't really feel like anyone was making compelling arguments for me to scumread him so I stuck with him as town, then he died and flipped town, so I was right. Which part of this makes me scum? I guess I'm mainly addressing Paul since he said he really liked me for town yesterday then is now calling me a scummy scumfuck, so I'm curious what changed so drastically.

Flavor Leaf

- Uhhh, tbh this guy's still been in my townpool because I'm confirmation biased about the quick wagon. Looking purely logically, though, he has certainly been showing effort to crack the game open and gather information so I'm content to keep him here.

Eddie Cane

- Obviously I disagree with his reads but overall he seems similar to FL in his attempts to cut through the BS talk and actually solve the game. Somewhat aggressive but he seems to have a willingness to evaluate the game from all angles.

Null:

frog

- As several people have pointed out, town!TB goes inactive all the time so I'm not sure why so much suspicion immediately appeared surrounding him. As for his replacement I don't have any confident read on frog as of yet. Posts like #1533 and #1955 seem towny, but are sort of

obviously

towny so they feel easily fakeable, if that makes sense.

Dunkerdoodles

- Votes strangely, sheeps strangely, doesn't seem to care what people think about it. Leaning slightly town but I must admit this slot is worth keeping an eye on.

Lean scum:

NTRP

- I think I'm possibly biased against people who call me a scummy scumfuck. Dunno how I feel about this slot overall, just seems to fade into the background and not contribute much to solving the game. Type of scum who is easy to overlook. Could just be his play style but I need to understand the motivation behind some of his actions because right now I have a bad gut read on most of his recent sheeping.

MM4

- This is a more unpopular opinion than I realized it was going to be but yeah I still think Ausuka's scumminess was agenda-driven and not playstyle-related. And MM4 was uncharacteristically aggressive after mulch pushed on him, and what was scummy was not even just the aggression, but the weird automatic certainty he had that mulch had a scum agenda, for weird automatic reasons. It was the exact same thing Ausuka did to me.

rb

- Okay so I've already said that I feel like rb's pushes have felt scum-motivated and he has a tendency to automatically scumread and berate people who merely disagree with his logic, or whose logic he disagrees with. The other thing was his argument that we should kill Thor even if he's town. And on reread I also really don't like his push on mulch and his unwillingness to present any case when I asked. Just seems right in line with his stupid "let's just kill the most useless person" thing. If you always just kill the most useless person I think you almost always hit town when you're playing with experienced scum. (That said, mulch wasn't even useless if you actually read his posts... he was just town. Sounds more to me like, let's kill anyone who disagrees with me so I get to lead unobstructed.)

[wavemode]

why

are

scum

apparently

more

aggressive

when

pushed

on

that's

a

fucking

town

trait

What is this in response to

[wavemode]

talk to me wave.

what motivation u need to understand? what recent sheeping? Ive been sheeping eddie but mistly jokingly. I think ur scum outside of what eddie thinks, but eddie's read of u as well as rbs does play a role

pedit: r u reffering to rb?

what happened to scum can do anything town can do?

I think someone is going to need to calmly dumb down for me why this mulch thing is such a big deal because I'm not quite getting it. I townread mulch's early posts as well as ciara's, then I didn't really feel like anyone was making compelling arguments for me to scumread him so I stuck with him as town, then he died and flipped town, so I was right. Which part of this makes me scum? I guess I'm mainly addressing Paul since he said he really liked me for town yesterday then is now calling me a scummy scumfuck, so I'm curious what changed so drastically.

[wavemode]

to wavemode whose scumreads are just people who he thinks are 'aggressive' in response to stuff, apart from you

gl ever finding scum consistently with that attitude

or better yet, his reasons are shit because he's scum

Can you give me an example of that so I can explain in more detail then

[wavemode]

Town doesn't mean useful.

[wavemode]

My comment was in response to:

in 1046 you even imply ciara wasn't useful - but mysteriously they were a 'pretty strong' townread after Mulch replaced in.

[wavemode]

My comment was in response to:

in 1046 you even imply ciara wasn't useful - but mysteriously they were a 'pretty strong' townread after Mulch replaced in.

but still nowhere in any world do you express any kind of sentiment that indicates you have any kind of townread on ciara

anywhere

It was in retrospect, on reading her ISO

[wavemode]

because wave that kinda turn around mid wagon "i might be wron on mulch" reads like ur scum and know alignment and are trying to distance. that was the biggest reason for change.

That turn around was not mid-wagon, it was after mulch was already hammered and claimed scum lol

[wavemode]

so if you're town (let's just assume you are)

why does it take THIS MUCH EFFORT just to get that out of you?

These are questions you never asked me

[wavemode]

mehh mid wagon post wagon semantics

No, it's not semantics, it's the entire crux of your argument.

Mulch seemed town to me but then in twilight after he was hammered he was like "alright you got me guys, I'm scum"

Then I went "guys I think I was wrong on mulch" which obv is just tongue in cheek since he had literally just claimed scum

What part of that is scum distancing

[wavemode]

it could just be nauseating town but when someone says "see i was right and you were wrong about blabla" it's generally just a fkn scum player

I'm not concerned that the town thought mulch was scum; it's, like, whatever at this point. I simply bring it up because three different people now have referenced my positioning on mulch to be scum indicative so it was confusing to me

[wavemode]

1. semantics comment was a joke. of course midwagin is nit post wagon

2.pre-flip no one know alignment but scum.

3. it is exactly distancing bcuz its like onhh he is actually tiwn. see i didnt really wanna lynch him. and next day u point it out like see i was rightp

Okay answer a few questions for me because I think your logic has started to wander into the weeds somewhat so maybe we have a misunderstanding of the facts

1. What was my opinion on ciara and mulch during day 1? Did I vote that slot?

2. What did I change my mind about? Did I think the slot was scum then change my mind to town or was it the other way around?

3. What did mulch flip, town or scum?

[wavemode]

ah fuck off. i understand the facts u keep misrepping the argument.

its not ur fucking pisition its how u changed it thats scummy

pedit: its wrong. I'll bet $10 on it (this is a lot bcuz atm i have only $20 to my name)

also who hard SRs me?

Yeah and you're the one pushing on me so I'm asking you to explain that argument.

I thought mulch was town, then he claimed scum. Then I said hey guys I was wrong. What part of that is scummy?

[wavemode]

So you are refusing to answer the question Paul? If I am misrepping then explain what I'm misunderstanding about what you're saying here.

[wavemode]

So you are refusing to answer the question Paul? If I am misrepping then explain what I'm misunderstanding about what you're saying here.

alright here we go

1. u tred ciara okay

2. upon reread u think its svum. ur looking townie so far

3. u vote mulch. alright

4. hammer and mulch shitposting and now u think ur wrong. -this is bad

5. pointing out wrongness next day trying to get some cred. also going after mm4 right away is bad bcuz u should be scum bcuz u were wrong as well.

pretty much when u said u think ur wrong it sounds like ur scum distancing from wagon ur trying to not be associated with lynching the townie and ur doing that b4 the flip. then u go after mm4 for being wrong (atleast i assume so u didnt give any reason that i saw so this made most sense). Essentially tried to distance from wagon so u could set up mm4 for being wrong about mulch.

now u think im tryna lynch u bcuz ur read. no its because ur switch/distancing. and it feels like ive said this 20 times

pedit: not lynch eddie. him and u are strong trs

This is exactly why I asked you for your version of the facts. I never scumread ciara and I never voted mulch. I maintained that mulch was town the whole time.

[wavemode]

wave can't be town because he avoids asking direct game related questions from me. this is even more important because he claims to townread me. this alone is damning.

Not sure how serious this is but I play independently regardless of my alignment, I don't ask others for guidance. Also, your reads have been consistently wrong sooo...

[wavemode]

wave can't be town because he avoids asking direct game related questions from me. this is even more important because he claims to townread me. this alone is damning.

Not sure how serious this is but I play independently regardless of my alignment, I don't ask others for guidance. Also, your reads have been consistently wrong sooo...

when did i say you ask for guidance?

and the big thing. me having A WRONG READ (YOU BEING SCUM) DOES NOT IMMEDIATELY MEAN YOU GET TO DISREGARD THE REST OF MY POSTS. that is not how you are playing as town and that fucking newbie queue mentality is why you're getting lynched today.

I'm struggling to determine what your point is here or how it makes me scum. Are you saying that I should just take your word for it that Thor is scum even though I town read him and you've been wrong about everything else?

[wavemode]

if you want to help town, convince me wave is town or in the process convince yourself he's scum.

That statement feels disingenuous when you've already decided to throw reason to the wind and refuse to engage about why I'm scum for not asking you some questions.

[wavemode]

wave, you directly refused to answer basic game related questions. that's a scum tell. you've supposedly seen one singular wrong read from me, you. not mulch. not thor. you. that read being wrong doesnt mean you get to dosmiss my questions and just say "lol yourw bad town" and things like "thor and mulch are town because Eddie says they're scum". that's not town trying to solve the game, that's scum wanting me to stop pushing them by giving a town read and ignoring my attempts to sort you. you're flipping red and I'm not letting you annoy your way out of it.

What question did I refuse to answer

Also, you're floundering for reasons or just not reading the game if you still think the only reason I townread Thor is you

[wavemode]

Also, your reason suddenly changed, you said I wasn't asking you questions. Why is it now the opposite.

[wavemode]

Eddie I already said in that post you quoted yourself that I townread Thor's posts.

[wavemode]

Eddie I already said in that post you quoted yourself that I townread Thor's posts.

yes and you also refused to answer my questions to you

Which questions

[wavemode]

You literally have not asked me any questions this day. In day 1 I think you asked me why I townread mulch and thor and I told you.

[wavemode]

would consider lynching in
Eddie Cane
Flavor Leaf
Dunkerdoodles
Game Replacement
wavemode
Thor665

anyone outside that is a fuck no although there's probably scum in there and it's hard to distinct between scum in my townleans and actual town tbh

on that note
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

post on unabombah is v/ bad

What is bad about it

[wavemode]

Only scum make reachy cases? Town always have definitive evidence of everything they push?

[wavemode]

You said his post on una was reachy and that's what made it very bad. I'm wondering how much of a scumtell that is though.

[wavemode]

We know you can shoot him tonight.

We're just wondering what your alignment is

[wavemode]

Catching up a bit, life has been hectic

[wavemode]

wave, you're probably just scum but try and push stronger. am I town or scum? is anything different with Mario flip and night lack of flip?

I pushed. We got him. Moving on. VOTE: NotTheRealPaul

I still lean slightly town on you eddie. Leaning more town on rb as well.

Also, I hope you all realize that Mario killed SD. He was hoping SD would flip scum so that his hard push onto her would earn him towncred. He tried to do the same thing with Flavor Leaf. Which, for what it's worth, means he really did scumread FL. Worth noting.

[wavemode]

Actually, not really worth noting. I forgot he posted a list of reads anyway.

[wavemode]

Nvm Mario was novice, he can't kill day 1. Ignore my noob analysis. I've been semi checked out of this game.

There could be a vigilante. If there is he's probably 1-shot. That makes way more sense than mafia killing SD IMO.

[wavemode]

UNVOTE:

Nvm I will re-read. So in other words just ignore every post I've made on this page. K bye

[wavemode]

I will sheep VOTE: Dunkerdoodles

[wavemode]

Two votes was worth claiming over?

[wavemode]

Usually when there is a scum lynch scum try and jump on at the last minute to appear town right?

What are you referring to?

[wavemode]

Okay but you mentioned it here. I'm wondering why. What scum lynch are you talking about.

[wavemode]

You are literally the only one who thinks that right now. It's because you're a tone reader.

and as the most experienced player in this game now that rb left, what does my lack of strong scumreads tell you?

That you are scum?

I also don't want to massclaim btw. Seems premature to me and as I said on day 1 nothing proves the claims true anyway.

[wavemode]

VOTE: Game Replacement

Ugh. I have a result from last night, but it's complicated. I'm loyal.

If you weren't going to share, why bring it up?

[wavemode]

Oh I just realized Loyal is a modifier. I see what you mean.

[wavemode]

Oh hey what a day

Correct me if any of this is erroneous, but since frog watched FL and nobody did any action on him in the night, he didn't get roleblocked. And since FL is loyal and got no result, Eddie has to be scum, or else one of FL/frog is lying.

VOTE: Eddie Cane

[wavemode]

Or we could lynch NTRP and get one more round of night actions in to sort out the Eddie/FL mess.

In what world does this make sense or come from a town mindset

[wavemode]

And why are you voting me

[wavemode]

And why are you voting me

Because you have not done anything to help catch scum.

That's neither true nor a good reason to suspect me over eddie

Dwindling the scumteam's numbers is how we avoid lylo. If there is confirmed scum in eddie/FL, we have to deal with it now

[wavemode]

Who claimed JK?

[wavemode]

frog, help me to understand because lynching outside of Eddie/FL isn't tracking logically for me

Like, even if Eddie commits to protecting you tonight and you die, that doesn't prove anything, since he could have been roleblocked.

I don't see a situation where lynching outside of FL/Eddie is a good play here. Worst case scenario, you die, and we mislynch, and then we're in lylo and can no longer afford the 50/50 between Eddie/FL. We might choose wrong and just lose at that point.

To avoid lylo our main focus should be on reducing the scum's numbers. That starts with FL/Eddie.

[wavemode]

Above I probably should have said mylo*. there are actually a lot of people still alive

[wavemode]

I will also point out that at the moment it is entirely possible for all the current claims to be town

Explain a scenario where all of frog/FL/Eddie are town.

[wavemode]

Vanilla Townie, btw

[wavemode]

Eddie's claim seems suspect to me and I don't see why me unvoting does anything productive for us, to be perfectly honest with you Una

[wavemode]

Not claiming is not necessarily helping us but I don't see how sitting around here berating Twoina is going to make him change his mind...

[wavemode]

I don't see much reason to hand scum fakeclaims, but, y'know, literally even something as banal as a scum jailkeeper (or town jailkeeper for that record) targeting Eddy allows for literally all their claims to be legit depending on what other claims are out there.
However, a mass claim would clarify that to a certain degree as lack of a town JK claim or any other town protective kill reducing claim would toss that theory out.
But until you can toss that theory out, claims of 'we have at least one scum in three' are utterly unvalid to make at this stage.
Which is why we should finish the mass claim - please add your voice to pressuring OneinaMillion, he is wasting town's time with a Newbie stance, and it should stop.

Dude, the crux here is that FL is loyal and got no result on Eddie, and frog watched FL and saw that he was not roleblocked. JK targetting eddie doesn't change that situation. Rolestopper targetting eddie could have caused it, but then you have the question of, if nobody in town claims Rolestopper (I'm pretty sure if anyone was one they would say so... twoina says his role has nothing to do with this situation so I doubt he is one), then it's a mafia Rolestopper who protected him, which is still suspicious AF.

[wavemode]

Alright, so let's say Twoina simply refuses to claim. What then? You guys just policy lynch him, like Mulch?

[wavemode]

Yes, I know you weren't involved there. I was referring more to Una.

I will UNVOTE: , pending a full claim. But it just doesn't sound like one is coming, and I don't think that should change our strategy until we get a flip from Eddie once and for all. That's the only thing that will let us know for sure what's going on here.

[wavemode]

A full claim is not coming, and I'm not voting for twoina

Anyone else want to claim before I vote Eddie?

[wavemode]

A full claim is not coming, and I'm not voting for twoina

Anyone else want to claim before I vote Eddie?

Voting Eddie is a bigger mistake than voting TiaM until he claims a strong PR, OR ANYTHING FOR THAT MATTER.
Because after that we don't have to wonder whether we take a risk or not.

How exactly does outing twoina make us not have to wonder whether we are taking a risk?

Why are you more eager to lynch Eddie than Flavor Leaf by the way?
I was put at totally 50/50 between them after their claims, I had no reason to doubt either above the other.

Uh, because when I first got into the thread and there was still no night kill, my exact thought was "wow, either we have an incredibly stupid/unlucky scumteam, or they are no-lynching and someone is going to fakeclaim doc"

I also agree with others who have said that there's more likely to be a limited role here than a full doctor

None of this proves Eddie is scum, but it makes me lean more to side with FL unless Eddie flips town

[wavemode]

Eddie and fl both claim to have protected frog, fl on night 2 and eddie on night 3. Why was there no nightkill twice if they're both town and frog is scum? Why did scum!frog decide to no-kill twice?

[wavemode]

Okay, so I'm a Rolecop (x shot) and FL is a JOAT. I'm pretty sure Eddie is scum here and that post just seemed like AtE.

Frog is scum here. Today we lynch Eddie, tomorrow we lynch Frog then you can all woo me to who's scum, depending if I'm alive.

Walk me through scum!frog

[wavemode]

I think the point of popcorn is that it's random. But we won't arbitrarily let Paul wait and have others claim first because he could use that information to make a better fake claim. Once he's chosen he has to go.

[wavemode]

I'm still not convinced frog is scum

[wavemode]

You've been reading the game and don't know what my thoughts on eddie are?

[wavemode]

Can we finish this day?

Some people wanted to fullclaim

[wavemode]

VOTE: Eddie Cane

[wavemode]

For the third time, someone explain to me why frog is scum

[wavemode]

UNVOTE:

Maybe I haven't been paying close enough attention. Why can't game's and frog's claims both be true

[wavemode]

Oh for some reason I thought last night was night 4, obv it's night 3 so frog said FL wasn't visited. Yeah one of game/frog is lying

[wavemode]

Oh ffs

[wavemode]

Oh ffs

Also this is a questionable "bah" because it implies Wave was tracking Paul and saw him coming..!

I tracked FL. After eddie flipped town I figured out it was likely a FL/GR/Paul or FL/GR/Thor team and they were just trying to next-level us or something with their fake claims. If I had known FL was Boon that just would have further assured me of that lol

[wavemode]

Nightmare LyLo for me would have been deciding between TiaM and Paul.

I thought Eddie protecting TIAM mostly proved him town? Scum would have had to coincidentally no-kill that night, or try to kill Dunker (LOL)