Mini 1937 ~ Girls ♥ Girls 2: Mini's Apartment ~ Endgame

[Prism]

VOTE: Notice

Skeptical of that vague claim. Feels more like a gambit than them actually pondering anything. (Should I claim this? When? How to do so? Soft or hard claim? All things to discuss with the hydra partner. Possibly done pregame, but for now going to doubt it.)

Alright that's all I've got for now I'm not part of the circlejerk and I'm not going to try to be.

Someone call me in a few hours/days

[Prism]

Specifically, use of "I" language really makes me doubt that it's either well thoughtout or discussed. Discussion of a gambit along the lines of "Hey I'm going to do this is that cool?" "Sure" more likely.

[Prism]

Specifically, use of "I" language really makes me doubt that it's either well thoughtout or discussed.

You uh.
You

do

know who's in this hydra, right?

Yeah, that's why I made the second half of the post.

[Prism]

And sorry camn, but it's not in my nature.

[Prism]

Multiple ways that question/response can be interpreted so let me be more clear: #56 is remarkably vague and underdeveloped, as far as actual implications go.

What you revealed to Heartless seems to be an off the cuff winging. The "I" language makes me think that's all you and none of the hydra discussion, and that's really strange considering you supposedly have your niche that seems to need precise play. (Don't grill me on language here, doing my best paraphrase and I realize that's not quite on the mark) I'd expect you to either readily come out with it to begin with or to have discussed exactly how the early claim will go, and neither of those things seems to have happened.

[Prism]

Do you think that scum put less thought and discussion into what they're going to claim than town?

Depends. When they just want to run a vague soft early, specifically the idea originating in a specific head, yes.

[Prism]

@nancy:

Can you give us a bit more detail on the Deadline Meter and what the activity criteria are?

~ Anything for you. <3

It's based on Vi's battery-powered deadlines; hence Vi being named in the OP.

Primary criterion is just... activity. Posts.
Secondary criteria involve what types of activity and how I judge the content within the context of the gamestate.

I keep track of activity daily and run it all through a formula with which I calculate how much to decrease the Meter; the variable is my subjective judgement of the content. There's no way to game the deadline by producing a specific type or volume of content; the same post on page 4 and page 40 will be judged differently, because they will exist in a different gamestate.

Essentially, this is a tool with which I can hopefully make the game as fun as possible for my players. It's not meant to discourage certain types of posting; it's meant to help the game be paced in a way appropriate to the activity within the game; to allow me to respond to what the game needs to be fun according to what I'm seeing from my players. ~

[Prism]

Prism- What would you conclude if I told you it was

all

Mastina?

That is basically my working assumption, so I would wordlessly nod my head, shake your hand, and leave out the side door when no one was watching. I'd then spend the rest of the night curled up alone in the backseat of my car alone crying, wondering why I had so much resentment for the circlejerk, wondering if it really was my nature or if I was just jealous. I'd speculate as to whether or not anyone could ever understand me.

And then, after a long night of emotional isolation and inner turmoil, I'd pull myself together, drive home and VOTE: Senpai

~ I belive your vote was already there. If this was merely an artistic gesture, I approve! ~

[Prism]

Okay again, there is nothing alignment indicative there.

Explain or get a vote

Too bad I don't care what you think and have already done both of the latter.

[Prism]

The only thing you've said is mastina didn't talk to her hydra partner about claiming something and that is in no way AI.

Don't think it is. Either way, it's better than going "lol hi Nacho xD VOTE: Imperium"

[Prism]

That is not a real vote nancy lmao don't count that

~ As you wish. ~

[Prism]

You know exactly what I meant, don't be pedantic because I mixed up negatives.

[Prism]

VOTE: Notice

Skeptical of that vague claim. Feels more like a gambit than them actually pondering anything. (Should I claim this? When? How to do so? Soft or hard claim? All things to discuss with the hydra partner. Possibly done pregame, but for now going to doubt it.)

Alright that's all I've got for now I'm not part of the circlejerk and I'm not going to try to be.

Someone call me in a few hours/days

Specifically, use of "I" language really makes me doubt that it's either well thoughtout or discussed. Discussion of a gambit along the lines of "Hey I'm going to do this is that cool?" "Sure" more likely.

Multiple ways that question/response can be interpreted so let me be more clear: #56 is remarkably vague and underdeveloped, as far as actual implications go.

What you revealed to Heartless seems to be an off the cuff winging. The "I" language makes me think that's all you and none of the hydra discussion, and that's really strange considering you supposedly have your niche that seems to need precise play. (Don't grill me on language here, doing my best paraphrase and I realize that's not quite on the mark) I'd expect you to either readily come out with it to begin with or to have discussed exactly how the early claim will go, and neither of those things seems to have happened.

[Prism]

Specifically, use of "I" language really makes me doubt that it's either well thoughtout or discussed. Discussion of a gambit along the lines of "Hey I'm going to do this is that cool?" "Sure" more likely.

[Prism]

Feels more like a gambit than them actually pondering anything. (Should I claim this? When? How to do so? Soft or hard claim? All things to discuss with the hydra partner. Possibly done pregame, but for now going to doubt it.)

that's really strange considering you supposedly have your niche that seems to need precise play. (Don't grill me on language here, doing my best paraphrase and I realize that's not quite on the mark) I'd expect you to either readily come out with it to begin with or to have discussed exactly how the early claim will go, and neither of those things seems to have happened.

[Prism]

The only thing you've said is mastina didn't talk to her hydra partner about claiming something and that is in no way AI.

Don't think it is. [not AI]

[Prism]

Yes, I am 100% sure of mastina's alignment based off of this single thing alone, having played with them a grand total of once and having never paid much attention to her during that time.

[Prism]

I honestly dont get the sarcasm.

I obviously don't understand what you're thinking here.

I think a gambit setup (scum) is marginally more likely than a legitimate soft (town). That is literally it. My first guess after reading the first 2/3 pages. Specifically, I think the off-the-cuff response to Heartless immediately giving some loose detail is more likely to indicate the former (scum mastina trying something with quick "ok" from jae) than the latter (mastina/jae having talked out exactly how to claim). Neither of them could be true. Town Mastina might just have gone with it.

This is a first pass, not me knowing the ins and outs of mastina's mind, not me deathtunneling mastina.

This is a toss it out, let's see where this goes and what people's reactions are to it deal.

You got quotes because a page of asking shit I've already answered is exactly what I didn't want.

[Prism]

Disagreeing with me is fine, voting me is fine.

Ignoring all of my explanations claiming I hadn't explained it, when I clearly did so, annoying as hell.

[Prism]

Actually this is largely my fault for getting annoyed in the first place when I really shouldn't be, so I'll apologize.

[Prism]

No worries. Is there anything else that you don't get/do you find my thought process implausible?

To Heartless, why the Ginngie vote?

[Prism]

I don't like prism's vote on Notice. I see it the opposite way of what prism sees. I don't see the scum benefit to basically putting a "vig me" post it note on your own back.

1. Do we always assume a vig is in a mini theme?
2. Stretch on my end, I don't think aiming to dodge a vig shot was her intent, but mastina made it clear that it was only negative utility if a single other role existed. AKA, probably not actually negative utility. Just devil's advocate, I don't think mastina was thinking "Oh I better dodge a vig shot" at all.

Prism's vote just looks like an attempt to jump on whatever they can and possibly a chance to get some more info about someone's role.

First part, definitely, I'm not a fan of social hour. Second part I think you're missing part of my point: I don't think she was selective enough about giving it out.

And yes, kmd is right, scum have incentives to not get into

[redacted]

slapfights too.

[Prism]

As a heads up, I won't be online for the next 24 hours. Will be back at some point 8/10.

~ Fun fact: Girls ♥ Girls 1 involved zero prods. There were replacements; Imperium was actually *due* for a prod at one point (51 hours without posting) but I was asleep and didn't prod them; no actual prods sent out all game. Kiiinda doubt we're going to see that this game but who knows. ~

[Prism]

Caryatid gets a TR for 228.

I'm drunk so be warned that I might go back on this later but it looks town to me.

Any questions for a drunk Prism who presumably is more sloppy as scum or more genuine as town now's your chance

[Prism]

Also we need an avatar so if anyone can find like, a picture of a penguin robbing a bank or something..

I'll check in later but for now my head is still pounding.

[Prism]

Did a nice, quick reread of the game. I missed a lot my first look through.

@Notice:

Why's camn a hard TR for you? The fact you gave it makes me feel better about you to begin with, but sell me on camn herself.

First off I was dead wrong to give Caryatid a drunk TR for #228. They weren't just spur of the moment reads (impression I remember getting, I was drunk sue me) but rather just rounding out explanations for the read list. Covering all of your bases isn't a towntell.

I'm just taking a "Wait and see" approach to Caryatid. Read on me I think is preemptive and strange (Is it implausible for me to make those mastina posts as scum?) The reads on Ginn and camn read pretty well (genuine) though.

I think that this approach from Gin stands out pretty radically from general approach and play in For Us; Tammy described her general approach there as "tiptoeing around a minefield" due to not really knowing how to approach mastina and me town and, while I'm sure her second attempt will be better than the first, I think that the way she goes weirdly aggressive towards Prism here is too far different from her weird hedge approach onto Lovebirds there for her to be a strong choice for scum here.

As an addendum, this mutual annoyance and talking past each other is deja vu. My interactions with Gin were basically exactly the same in camn's revenge and British Monarchy.

Going to shift to here for now:

VOTE: MaxwellPluckett

Runner up votes would be VNB and Polar (#156 describes more of

what scum is wary of doing

, rather than what they actually do)

[Prism]

FWIW I also like Imperium's posting so far.

[Prism]

It would definitely help, but I also again could have just realized that was the problem on my own instead of assuming my paragraphs are perfectly phrased and easily parsed rather then just rephrasing the answer.

I'm not a big fan of the Spiffeh wagon at the moment. I think the initiative he's taking on Imperium is good even if I don't agree with it. (I'm probably biased as well-I'm a player whose best reads come from how players react to me specifically, rather than looking at their interactions with others)

Join me on Max?

[Prism]

Nope, I haven't. Just a hunch.

[Prism]

Heartless has beat me to the punch and asked a question I wanted to like 3x now. I think they're playing great, I only wish that was more alignment indicative.

I'm not sold on either them nor Spiffeh scum, the latter I would even lean town on right now.

Heartless is a terrible analogue for SAJ, and the rush to "Hey everyone let's remake the camn's revenge townbloc!" with close to 0 vetting is disturbing. (Ginn townread I can understand via meta, everyone else, not even close)

[Prism]

Yeah you actually don't need much to recreate camn's revenge townbloc. Knowing you yourself are town and that Ginn likely is is pretty good reason to bring it back up. I haven't disliked any of Imperium's posting thus far either. I have no fucking clue how to read camn though I've been meaning to go back and look at their reaction to the Ginn selfs because there's probably something there.

I agree that the scumreads on Ahsoka so far are honestly ???. Her starting posts were fine, the only crime is not leaping headfirst into the fray, and I don't think that's really a crime.

Heartless is one of the people I'm looking at and just being like "Yeah their posts are great but are they town?" so I can understand feeling that way if you've got a lot of familiarity with them.

Spiffeh on the other hand doesn't make sense to me. The opening was flat but his demanding attention from Nacho feels fine to me and I'd lean town on it. His annoyance here for being voted for basically 0 is definitely justified from a town perspective.

I feel a lot better about the Senpai hydra now.

[Prism]

I've got to sleep now but I'll look more into VNB/Camn/Carya tomorrow if I have time. Which I should.

[Prism]

I was gonna ask what SAJ was but then I scrolled up and so now I'm going to ask what Secret Agent Jin is. (Please answer with like a sentence or two explaining the context rather than a link to something).

Adding to camn's link from earlier, SAJ was a scum that basically never posted. Most of the town bloc from camn's revenge, composed of Gin, Nacho, and Mastina, wanted him lynched, and when he did flip scum that basically solidified the bloc.

I don't really know you but you seem to be a newer player (I just looked it up and you do have 11 completed games so you're not really a newbie but you're still newish) but I liked your entrance more than I liked other people's entrances.

Liking my entrance is good and swell but thinking of me as newish is definitely going to cause problems at some point. I've been playing for about 7 years. My playstyle needed some adjustment to the forum format but no one on MS has ever called me lacking. As for VNB just nothing about their posts have stood out to me.

[Prism]

I'm feeling pretty good about Imperium. They make a good point on Caryatid.

Sounds like you've done a lot of making sure I'm not townread for anything silly, Imperium, but do you have any thoughts yourself on my alignment?

[Prism]

I'm feeling really sick today by the way so sorry for not getting more involved.

[Prism]

Feeling a bit sharper, taking advantage of it while I can.

First off, really like VNB's #345. Don't agree with all of the reads but some strike me as more skepticism than malice (ex. mastina) while others seem likely. I also just honestly buy the phone story. Conveniently sums up my feelings on Polar-ton of questions, range of usefulness in their answers, near 0 use for reading Polar.

Spiffeh, me putting you on the bottom of the list doesn't mean that you're my strongest scumread; in fact, it meant that you were the last person who I thought to place in that group. I thought that you actively doing nothing at that point (whether you were aware of it or not) was a line you'd be more likely to take as scum over town, but the biggest reason I put you on that list was so Tammy would look at you specifically since it's not like I have any real capacity to read you.

I'm not really getting this. This is the type of thing you walk up to your hydra partner and just say "Hey, mind taking a look at Spiffeh for me?". Dunno what kind of underhanded signaling you need to get your own hydra partner to look at something. I'm still not really doubting this slot-I'd put it at my top slot next to Ginn-but this just makes me go ???

Heartless's kmd read was strange, with TTH explaining Anti's read using quotes...rather than just having Anti check in himself and give the read. Feels like a really forced hydra reaction. The timing behind #136 is also just forced and stranged for a natural scumread. I really dislike their townread on Cary, and I'll delve into that in a bit because I've got a lot of problems with Cary's 327 which is the one TTH cited.

[Prism]

Two issues I have with Carya so far, 1) Odd Progression on Spiffeh 2) All of #327.

Spiffeh gets slotted into the Carya's second-top slot for his entrance. Next time he's brought up:

Spiffeh was so high because I really liked his opening and I think the "predict the scum" thing, while silly, is something I'll want to look back on later in the game once we have some flips because I do think scum would answer that differently than town would. Unfortunately, he's done literally nothing since then, so probably I jumped the gun there. I liked his entrance though.

Okay, so he hasn't done much, that's a shame, but his entrance is still fine.

VOTE: Spiffeh L-2

Oh, okay. I guess this is for pressure, he hadn't done anything since 140ish at this point. Carya had just given an Ahsoka read that was really worth pushing before but again, okay sure. Next mention:

I think if they're town then it'll really shine through in their posting and if they're not then we'll know. Spiffeh's the one I'm more worried about slipping away.

This is a really strong feeling about Spiffeh, with no clear basis. He had posted plenty since their pressure vote but there's no critique of any of that content from Carya.

They do cite their lack of reads later in a followup, but Carya makes it clear that this is something they

just then

did at the time of posting in #352, making it an unlikely candidate for their emotion in #327.

[Prism]

There are moments in Carya's play that also just feels to me like scum who have the tiny behaviors, tonewise, down to rote routine.

Mastina do you know why 317 makes me a little paranoid of you? But I like that you're pushing Spiffeh so I'm setting it aside for now but I just...want it noted...for postgame cred or something...that it was page 13 when I started worrying.

This feels so, so fake to me. And again, what they've verbalized about Spiffeh so far is that they liked Spiffeh's entrance but just not his lack of content. The phrasing of it as a question is just weird to me. What's the goal here? NMS going to solve your paranoia just because they know you are? This reads like banter but it's the type of banter that's meant to break into a townbloc.

On another note, this post:

The way I feel about camn is that I really liked 118 because it made me laugh and it was off the cuff and cute and I liked her push on Ginngie at first and then in 180 she was talking about awareness and it struck me as odd because I think in general as scum it's easier to have a better awareness of the game state than as town and you have more information to work with, so I feel just about the opposite about situation awareness as camn seems to :/ but her longer explanation in 182 was okay? If it's about nervousness and misreading the town and way her actions would come off to this playerlist then that's a different thing from whta I thought it was and it resonates.

I just want to think about her some more before I have a real read but if you have something, I want to hear it.

This is just a wild read that comes off as faking indecisiveness.

The opener for thinking that camn was town is wack, #118 is just a joke that's almost certainly NAI:

Outguess the mod works sometimes?

#180, the post that gave them hesitation, isn't even close to talking about gamestate. It's just about the playerlist, applying to how camn expects Gin to adjust to it as scum:

Its not about 'caring' but about awareness.
I am sure you are AWARE of the playerlist.

Her longer explanation actually makes it

less

clear that it's more playerlist, as it launches into deeper speculation.

Misreading it is definitely possible, and Carya's 230

does

come to the correct conclusion of what camn's #182 was about in the end, but the read applied to it feels disingenuous to me. #180 and #182 might as well be combined posts with their spacing and themes, and Carya's reaction feels like fake indecision.

[Prism]

People I'm probably not voting anytime soon: Imperium, Ginn, NMS (Got a lot better when they started walling, both a blessing and a curse)

One notch below but probably still no: Ahsoka, Spiffeh, VNB

No idea: camn (probably lean town? not sure what my basis is here), Polar, kmd

Yeah let's vote these fuckers: Maxwell, Carya, Heartless

P-Edit: Made before kmd's last post, will get this out first though

[Prism]

Yeah that was a pretty good post from kmd. I think you're offtrack on Ginngie, but this is my 3rd rodeo of hers so I'm used to it.

Specifically, where I think camn went wrong in #182 is that I think she got them mixed up. Scum Ginngie is afraid and plays the safe route. Town Ginngie has a

lot

of faith in the ability of a town Nacho/mastina to correctly get their alignment.

As far as me being drunk the night of my birthday, sorry but I don't play it up and pretend to forget that a backspace key exists like other people. You're right-I was well in control; but it really doesn't matter how much I've had, it's a true statement. I wasn't playing up my drunkenness, only stating that it wasn't like my play was going to tighten up. It's an invitation to

interact

, not to townread me. Decide for yourself how control I was in then.

[Prism]

Prism makes me doubt the ever living shit out of my Cary read

Your quote from earlier, this one:

That tier is just above "null, hasn't posted, but it's the middle of the night in their time zone" tier (you), just above "null, hasn't posted, but it's daytime in their time zone" (Shadowphant). I originally had fewer tiers but I kept finding I did feel a little bit more strongly about one person than another.

Not gonna lie, I don't see scum caring about details like this.

is actually another example of those rote, tiny ingrained behaviors I meant, and I fundamentally disagree with townreading it. From new players I can see the argument but this was extremely trivial to fake as scum.

I made reference to the same feeling in Buttersnap Shitfuckery when people started townreading the tone of Transcend. The context is different-these feel more forum vs. chat-oriented, for instance, but the principle of "ingrained scum shortcut/tiny tonal behavior" is the same.

It's also worth noting that these behaviors are powerful because they're both

plausible as town and easy to fake

. The first especially is a big key-it speaks to the value of digging deeper, not instalynching.

[Prism]

I feel like my Maxwell vote is really worth more pressure. They've been sick so I get the hesitance but their posting has been

really

lackluster.

Prisms town! Totes.
VOTE: Ahsoka Tano

Ginngie pls dont self if youre town even as a joke its just confusing to us good honest folks

Ignoring obvious underexplained reads, second part is just weird. "Don't self even if you're town," does Maxwell think it's scum? town? NAI? Implied they're confused by it by saying it generally confuses townies but that confusion is not apparent at all. Just a regular "Don't be antitown as town!" and then move along.

Hey all Ill get into this soon, been pretty damn sick
Ahsokas posting hasn't improved but w the consistent weirdness im not sure if i find it AI anymore

See: fake nuance

[Prism]

Can you explain the desire to lynch Spiffeh? I still see basically no real reason behind it. Closest I've seen is his lack of reads, but I don't see much reason to think there's this immediate, AI need for that.

I liked his inquisition of Nacho, even as town Nacho unintentionally pulled some bullshit, and now he's just frustrated because of dumb shit like Mastina typing 2 massive walls that just say "He just

doesn't feel

like Spiffeh town. I

feel it.

This is Spiffeh scum. I don't know. I

feel

it." She might be right, but if she's wrong of course Spiffeh is going to think to himself "This is dumb shit and I'm pissed I have to deal with it, especially after that Nacho bullshit earlier"

[Prism]

The thing about those is that I'm pretty sure they're legitimate, even if he were scum. That's one of those things where you know

exactly

what you're going to say if you fake it.

Waiting on two players, particularly ones he thinks he can get an easy handle on, is totally a reasonable move too.

[Prism]

Why is it reasonable?
It seems like an arbitrary excuse to lurk, and I would bet $1 he doesn't actually have shiz to say after they 'weigh in', which, especially considering they are both HALVES OF A HYDRA. It may or may not ever happen.. or maybe already has happened... and we don't even get to know.

SO, like, wtf.

Getting a handle on one/two good players is a good stepping stone of a starting point. I

do

think it's a bit irrational in the sense that you can always do both, but there are definitely times when I've started a game by waiting to see what one/two players do. Sure, he might be bullshitting, and he may have nothing of value, but that'll answer itself soon.

Heartless's kmd read was strange, with TTH explaining Anti's read using quotes...rather than just having Anti check in himself and give the read. Feels like a really forced hydra reaction.

I was on that night and I knew Anti wasn't going to be.
You think I made that up or what?

I don't think you made it up, it came off as an overly forced hydra interaction especially with the timing of people calling for you before. Both of these are plausible as town.

The timing behind #136 is also just forced and stranged for a natural scumread.

You think engaging Spiffeh when he outright said he was bored is "forced"?
Alright-y....

Yeah, it's his scumread. Waiting for Spiffeh to be bored is strange. He did explain that he wasn't sure on it and wanted to run it by you first, so I can see the possibility of Anti just being like "Ehhhh I'm not sure I should give this but fuck it let's mix it up".

1) Odd Progression on Spiffeh

That's

exactly

the issue Anti cited with Cary but early game reads being in flux is not necessarily scummy, See: House Arryn from King's Landing. I don't think it's as much cause for concern as you or Anti think it is.

I'm not seeing where Anti gave that reasoning; can one of you elaborate?

Reads are constantly in flux and change all the time, sometimes even lategame. It's natural to swap things up a bit. It is however important to press it and get to the root of things.

I gut townread 327 because my first instinct is that scum doesn't shade throw on mastina in the clumsy way they did. It's not enough for a legitimate push but it's also potentially pissing off one of the loudest mouths in the game

and

he co-opts mastina herself into it by inviting her to participate? If that's from scum, that's a surprisingly (and pointlessly) ballsy move.

I don't think the point was to throw shade on mastina. The point was to get mastina to townread them.

Yeah that was a pretty good post from kmd.

Really?
Which part?

Tracing of their thoughts on camn/Ginngie.

[Prism]

Prism: Regarding post 421, where else have you seen people faking those kind of tone-tells? Anti and the imperium hydra are generally really good at that kind of read, and it seems a dangerous thing to fake.

I elaborated on similar in Buttersnap Shitfuckery, specifically citing behaviors that arise in chat-based mafia there. This is a bit different but the principle-rote, ingrained, reflexive behaviors-is the same.

It's important to note that my point isn't that these are hard scumtells. My point is that those small bits of fake nuance are trivial to fake given a decent amount of experience.

Also, what are you trying to achieve by attacking gingies defense: do you just want her to agree with you, or is there something more? Cary should definitely answer Prism's 415 about progression of her Spiffeh read as he has valid points.

Assuming you're talking about Ginn's townread on Cary-I think it's wrong, and is worth discussing to conclusion. I don't know what deeper motive I need.

[Prism]

Spiffeh, forget about Ginngie for now.

Your criticisms (ex. potshots) are valid but I don't think that continuing to engage with her is really going to help you-maybe if you want to get a read on her, but in general I think this is counterproductive and is more likely to get you lynched than anything else.

Can you take a look at some of the others in the game? What do you think about camn, Maxwell, Carya for instance?

[Prism]

If you read the thread you would know that Nacho and mastina town read me, most importantly mastina.

I'm confirmed town ya dingus

Good luck when they die and suddenly you find yourself getting mislynched because this is what you've been doing all game.

[Prism]

This is actually fucking awful to read.

Ginn is playing like dogshit, yes. She seems to take pride in having literally 0 respect for herself as a player, instead relishing on just riding on Mastina and Nacho's coattails, definitely yes. But she's not scum for it.

Ginn, do literally anything fucking else.

Spiffeh, I wish I could implant my knowledge into your brain but for now I'm just leaving it at "As unfortunate and awful as this is, this is legitimately a towntell for Gin"

[Prism]

Like, this is actually atrocious. This is the world's

[redacted]

est slapfest.

None of Maxwell's posts have been good. None of their reads have been good. Their tiptoeing around Ginn just reads like someone ready to 180 at any time.

[Prism]

It was a statement regarding cardy somethings vote against me because 1. Card's reads are literally random.org and 2. it looked like we were going to vote people without actually saying anything or give a reason why so I did the same :3

Self vote is whatever but this is such an overexplanation, also i think i learned something about myself today because ginngie posts with the kind of reckless abandon i imagine i would as scum in this year 2017

Why is it an overexplanation or scummy? This just reads like Gin being frustrated with the Carya vote.

wait camn babe, why do you think I care about this playerlist and how I play?

I would like this answered tho.

As it stands it's obvious I'm trying to do my own thing and appealing to no one but my own play style.

I think what matters most is that I don't really get how everyone else actually matters because it never occurred to me

"its obvious im doing my own thing" does not go with "I did something purposefully scummy to get a wagon on me and analyze it"

Yeah, it kinda does.

Prisms town! Totes.
VOTE: Ahsoka Tano

Ginngie pls dont self if youre town even as a joke its just confusing to us good honest folks

This is the only post that is noteworthy of anything and it sucks tone wise.
First with the claiming the town read on prism, for me it's the word 'totes" like it was added to go "hey hey it's a town read, see a town read, fuck yeee"

'Such Sorting, Much Town'

Also at the end of his next sentence 'us good honest folks.' That's just a loaded response of hey look I am town, this is a town responding because I am clearly town like the other towns.

This one again cause its seriously bad lmao, Ginngie suddenly has a strong opinion on this post after Prism mentions the gut scumread on me, its really forced content

I brought it up. Ginn bothered to ISO you and look at you. If anything this is a towntell.

Theres really no specific post that made me go Ginngie is scum its just a pattern of her downplaying questioning with her attitude and "this is who i am", I get no sense she's trying to accomplish anything

I mean yeah, obviously I have an intense personal dislike of her attitude towards the game, but acting like this is AI over just her as a player is ???. The second part is nonsense. She tried (albeit unsuccessfully) to grill me, learned to back off slightly, did the stupid selfvote thing to spur activity and get some reads. That's not accomplishing nothing.

[Prism]

And yes, I mean you're tiptoeing because you're putting this scumread out there but the whole "Oh I'm taking in the meta from Prism et. al gimme a bit it might change later, but first can you answer some questions? By the way not meaning to be vicious or anything" just reads as someone who's ready to 180 and call Ginn town if all of the town reinforce it. Sure, being open is a good attitude to have as town, but this isn't how I'm reading it. It reads more like you're planning to flip if the town double down and are worried about her deathtunneling you after. You're trying to capitalize on Gin's erratic play more than you are trying to read her.

[Prism]

Prism town

Nacho is 100% going to ask you to elaborate on this so you should go ahead and get it out of the way.

Basically what camn & co. have been looking for is you scumhunting so don't halfass a real read like that.

[Prism]

I've got other games I need to go post in right now and then I'm going out with friends after, so this is it from me for now.

I'll be back either later tonight or sometime tomorrow.

[Prism]

Have no fear, I've already blazed the path for you and am well on my way. Come on in.

[Prism]

She ISOed me after you brought me up and came away w a very strong opinion on a post that doesnt say a lot and i dont buy it.

And there's no reason to believe that's not the natural case.

The fact that she looked at all is a good thing

Gin doesnt look frustrated abt the carya vote she looks like shes trying to come across like she doesnt care while also explaining her good reasons for selfing

Both of the points cited in your original post (Don't feel like digging it up now sorry) were digs at Carya.

Whats strange about me taking into account the meta while also grilling gin? Youre my only good townread rn but i cant understand why u find it strange that Im taking your opinion on this into account

All Ive done is try to read her and youre not seeing it which for me is pretty ???

I wouldn't call it strange. I'd say the way you're going about it bothers me, because it really seems like a fake stance ready to flip at any time.

[Prism]

but I think he's crack piping.

phrases tammy learns when she's dating a black guy for $200, trebeck

I'm fucking dead.

I'll be back and drunker in an hour or two.

[Prism]

Goddamn okay I see it, I know I need to make time, working on it, especially seeing as Max is up to 4 definitely need to read up.

[Prism]

Hate to do this to everyone yet again. This game takes priority #1 for catchup and I'll be here tomorrow or else replace out.

[Prism]

Spiffeh's #756 and #757 feel overwrought to me. Reaction to mastina is starting to border on overkill-seeing me understand their frustration and townread it seems to have served as a green light for more of it to showboat. The Tammy paranoia comes across as pretty forced. #760 with camn also reads pretty off to me; I don't like the jump to malice on his part for camn's out of context quote.

Have since read a few more posts and still feeling pretty meh. Getting a range of frustration, unsure of their legitimacy/AI implication of such (particularly reaction to camn) but sure of their counterproductivity.

I have no fucking clue how to read Polar Vortex, none of their posts ever strike me. I need to ISO that slot. (Reading 758 is what's inspiring this)

Like Carya's answer about my suspicion that the NMS paranoia was faked to break into the townbloc. Will have a lot more to say about this slot later (namely the drawings). Also really like the acknowledgement of being detail-oriented as scum and understanding what I'm saying about the plausibility of such details being faked. (Again, point is that it is plausibly fake, not that they are scum for it). Really appreciate the drawing and description too, Carya-I find it

extremely

difficult to verbalize what I like about players and posts, and am really pushing myself to do better on this front, so the affirmation feels nice.

Disagree siginficantly with Carya's #790 despite understanding it. It's a valid point but the frustration from Max that Ginngie refuses to see their point, as a hard scumread, feels disingenuous to me still. Feels again like someone ready to flip that scumread on a dime, claiming to have understood now why they're wrong, and is just fearful of getting retaliation hardtunneled.

Stopping at 34 for now, because honestly I should have gone to bed instead of trying to read this game.

[Prism]

And honestly regardless of their alignments, the behaviors of Gin, camn, and mastina this game have been unacceptable and it's immensely frustrating that people are just letting them vote park me for fucking awful reasons and engage with NO ONE ELSE, while going after me for stuff like "oh why haven't you talked to TTH yet" or "how DARE you mention Tammy when she hasn't posted" or scum reading me for my sense of humor??

And when I do try to lay out my thoughts on these players they either aren't acknowledged or overlooked for reasons like "oh this involves other games which means it's irrelevant".

This playerlist really shouldn't be amateur hour and I am at a loss for how everyone is letting them get away with this.

You're here to grill/lynch scum not grill/lynch the worst players, dude. Divorcing the alignments here is atrocious.

[Prism]

Concur with Heartless's #916 on Polar.

-My issue wasn't with Prism being drunk (seriously, wtf). It was Prism saying (paraphrased) "Hey I'm drunk so talk to me because I'll be sloppy as scum or genuine as town". It feels like an attempt to get people to talk and get town reads because they talked to "genuine town drunk Prism".

You're acting like getting people to talk and interact with me is a bad thing. It

wasn't

me saying "I'm drunk so townread me", but a "Interact with me and draw your own conclusions." I never exaggerated how drunk I was, which you acknowledged yourself. You're acting like I was masterminding some deceptive masterstroke relating to how drunk I would pretend to be, how much I actually was, people's perceptions, and deftly navigating the inbetween to my advantage akin to conducting a fine surgery.

All I was saying is that if I'm scum, I'm not going to get tigheter/sharper play when I'm drunk, so interact with me and see what you get. That's just a plain fact.

Why are you still voting me 45 pages in?

Spoiler: Imperium Response

First off, really like VNB's #345. Don't agree with all of the reads but some strike me as more skepticism than malice (ex. mastina) while others seem likely. I also just honestly buy the phone story. Conveniently sums up my feelings on Polar-ton of questions, range of usefulness in their answers, near 0 use for reading Polar.

Can't really say that I understand where you're coming from here - seemed like a pretty standard list to me. I believe the phone story, sure (odd thing to lie about), but I don't think it's an unreasonable way for those two to talk about the game as scum. As for the "more skepticism than malice" point, what do you mean by that? What would make their reads look more malicious? The read on NMS seemed simplistic almost to the point of being meaningless; I guess I could be being overly harsh here, but I didn't really parse anything beyond "I don't like that she townread a person who hasn't done much and Spiffeh wagon moved past!" - did you? I can buy that the Polar read is genuine (and slight town points for not jumping on an easy target), but I don't think that it's an observation that scum would have difficulty making.

I don't hard townread VNB yet, just one post I liked. First to address the phone thing-I specifically believe the "and this is what I said" part, ie. how the convo went. The Polar read specifically is the one I liked the most,
so I think you answered some of this yourself. As far as "skepticism vs. malice" goes, malice is basically being used interchangeably with scum intent. A better restatement is "I'm more inclined to believe their skepticism is legitimate for now, I see no reason to think it's fake nor get the immediate feeling it is"

I don't think this frustration is necessarily alignment indicative - it's reasonable that he'd be frustrated by the situation as either alignment and thus respond in kind. I think he'd probably be less likely to be as aggressive towards us as he was in places like the "Tammy is scum for not posting in 36 hours" - think town is significantly more likely to jump the gun as scum there since assuming that he'd score a mislynch on us is a pretty weird assumption to make and 1v1ing with someone you're not really likely to beat is an awkward as shit situation in general.

I agree and don't think the frustration is necessarily AI-I just didn't see the jump to him for it that a lot of people made, and couldn't really find any other reason to scumread him at the time.

[Prism]

Shit I forgot to close that spoiler.

nancy, darling, lend me a hand?

~ Done! <3 ~

[Prism]

Okay, fully caught up.

Spiffeh is right that camn's overblowing their "Waiting around" bit. That said, a lot of their defense strikes me as lackluster. I concur with Nacho that the frustration itself is likely NAI, and I'm having trouble getting anything out of them that I feel isn't plausible as scum. Interactions with Imperium make sense in general but are hardly inspiring. Highlighted some things yesterday that felt off to me.

camn in general has lived up to her signature pretty well I think. Resistance to engaging with Spiffeh read poorly to me, and their reads are remarkably nontransparent (ex. how that lynch pool came out. Do they townread me, for instance, being off of it? Why? How about Ahsoka?*) There's nothing about camn that strikes me as being certainly town.

*She might have addressed Ahsoka actually I should go back, but you get the idea.

I'm pretty sure Imperium is hard town. I'm going to challenge myself to actually explain that at a later date, but something about Nacho in particular feels a lot better than what I've seen from him as scum. Probably some combination of better questions and followup/incorporations, really need to dig to the root of that.

About to read the posts highlighted by Heartless as containing the bulk of the non-meta Ahsoka case.

[Prism]

Yeah not sold on this Ahsoka wagon. Spiffeh's right in that Ahsoka's #698 leaves a lot to be desired, but that and activity are all I see. Worth pressuring and getting in the game but not currently down to lynch.

Fleshing out my thoughts a bit on Carya, I've liked their depth and reads and interactions loads more originally (another read I need to set more in concrete terms w/ references at some point), and in particular I'm finding their explanations behind their drawings relateable and easy to follow. I think what bothers me is that the drawings make a great gimmick, but I feel as though their use as a tool has to be somewhat disingenuous. The explanations or the feelings don't arise from the drawing, but is instead pre-existing, making the drawings no more difficult to fake than the originating thoughts.

It is certainly true that focusing on one element of your thought process for a bit helps you expound on it, so I can see it from a valuable tool from that perspective, but that too seems trivial to overcome provided the foundation is plausibly faked.

Still think they're town, just wanted to put down my thoughts on the drawings themselves (And they are wonderful and much welcomed, regardless of Cary's alignment, so thanks for them Cary-I'm again honored by the analogy to still lake water)

[Prism]

And if you have the meta reason to believe that, sure, but I do not.

I would vote to pressure, but that's not what this wagon is, I agree-and I see no reason to vote to lynch.

[Prism]

I concur on 698 being bad, just not enough to get me to vote it over Max (unsure as to who my next runnerup would be atm)

You (or at least one of your heads) has made it a point to avoid meta, but it has repeatedly and publicly factored into your read on them. I looked at the posts your hydra highlighted as serving as good standalones, and you got my conclusion.

[Prism]

yeah well your conclusion sucks

You both have mentioned Ahsoka's main as a reinforcement of the scumread, significantly so. You don't want to talk about the meta because you know utilizing it in debate requires outing Ahsoka, okay, that's fine.

Sticking your head in the sand and expecting me to gather the same level of certainty, without it, on my end though is irrational.

[Prism]

Anyway, that was just my catchup, I'm hoping to get a readslist together later as a means of getting myself to dig deeper into some players (ex. camn/Polar/VNB)

[Prism]

Today's a do shit day.

Welcome, Aristo. Glad to have you. Why the fuck should I crusade for a flash wagon over you?

[Prism]

Okay we both know that was some stupid posturing from me so my apologies, but reads and an alternative. I'll be reading some more through today so take notes and let's reconvene.

[Prism]

My vote is pretty fucking useless right now, as am I, so my apologies.

I've learned the hard way that 4 games was too much for me. One just ended, and I'm not joining anymore, so it should be better from here. A case of too little, too late for today though.

Tomorrow I'm bringing the fury.

[Prism]

I'm not feeling too hot at the moment, both personally and about how things have been going for me online lately, but it's time to get back on the ball. I'm not letting my anxiety get the best of me. It's time to shine.

[Prism]

Prism

- could be scum for reals

Nothing's outside my range so far I concur-but any reason I'm at the bottom of the pile? I've got my own ideas about what a run-of-the-mill player would scumread about me (and why I think they'd be wrong) that I think I should address but I'll wait for you first. Also should actually get real reads before I launch into anything.

[Prism]

I think neither camn nor NMS are deserving of the top two slots, but I don't have the most solid foundation myself at the moment.

Where I'm at so far-up through about page 15, and actually able to really focus this time-is still Imperium/you hardtown but that's really about it so far. I imagine I'll likely have Carya up there later. I'm a lot more skeptical of all of Spiffeh/camn/NMS this time around.

camn's read on you w/r/t selfvote is worse when I look at it. I pointed out my problem with her argument before-she flipped the calculus, and I think you'd play more safe, but now I'm a bit more skeptical. Any attempt to paint your town, reckless meta as a scum desperation is subject to skepticism, although it can be a reasonable stance as town. Her signature quote fits, too, in that it's really unclear where some of her other reads come from (Ex. Why I asked for more on me-is it something I did, or things I haven't done? No indication)

Spiffeh I spent so much time just going "This frustration is NAI" and waiting, but I didn't have the time yesterday to really follow up when he started producing.

kmd still needs to answer my question about 20 pages back that someone reinforced and went more indepth on at some point, which is "Why is your vote still on me?'

[Prism]

Oh, and as for NMS, I kind of just threw her up as town with the stupid "Spiffeh is scum because I feel it" paragraph and that was really dumb, she definitely can fake that in a heartbeat.

[Prism]

I should make it clear those aren't scumreads, by the way, rereading up through 15 I have none other than the Max slot. Maybe a slight one on camn for the read on you but NMS/Spiffeh are more of a healthy skepticism.

[Prism]

Last promise from me for activity, this time for dinner.

If I fail again, at any point forward in this game, I will immediately replace out.

[Prism]

As in, if I even have to make a future promise, not just following them through.

[Prism]

Up through 40.

Some things I noticed this time through.

First, camn/Spiffeh both read as scum to me but I find it unlikely that they both are. Spiffeh's followup with Heartless, Imperium really was super lackluster so far. A lot of trying to argue with Imperium & co. about things like camn/Ginn slot but very few actual conclusions on the Imperium slot. Really something you want to avoid as long as possible as scum-calling them hardtown only to get pushed by them is certain to be fatal. Camn he kind of has a point on with her taking a bit out of context and her jumping the gun slightly but I don't view it as incredibly unlikely from townCamn. Her conciliatory tone on page 36 is questionable to me. I had "Gun to my head, Spiffeh over camn" but reading some further interactions (Previously cited page 36 was read, interactions with Polar were read) I'm not comfortable giving a read on either right now. They both read scum, but one is almost certainly wrong.

As the game goes on I have a harder time seeing Spiffeh as scum. His wagon formed out of nothing on RVS and it is still our current largest wagon. That just makes no sense. I feel like it's just a snowball of bad wagon leads to bad reactions, bad reactions lead to "serious" arguments, which lead to more reaction, more arguing and so on.

I don't think if he was scum he'd still be the larges wagon and pretty much the only player being scrutinized, when there are people like Ashoka, Kmd, VNB, or even us, people with few posts, bad posts, easy targets for scum. The only thing that could explain scum not coming after them is that scum are fine with the current state of the game. Because if they weren't (if Spiffeh was scum), no way he'd be the top wagon, or the only one at least.

I'm really skeptical of this defense here. Scum don't have a lot of influence in who gets voted outside of their partners; assuming there's 3 you have 2 out of the 12 other votes. That's not a lot to really wagon with unless they want to join Spiffeh and all 3 pile up at once. This post also really has the dual purpose of bringing others' attention to Ahsoka, kmd, VNB, etc. without directly pushing them.

#848 is also a

major

missed opportunity to flesh out some thought processes on camn-what're their hangups? What are some thing that make them go "I don't know" and the arguments behind each side? I think the other point I have is bigger but this one bothers me too. Their read on Spiffeh on page 36 is all kinds of yuck, too.

Polar Vortex do you have any scum reads at the moment?

Both heads have different scumreads at the moment. We're working on them and will give reads together soonish. My better head has town reads on all of the Spiffeh wagon. I currently don't have reads on any of then, but the way the wagon is going I'm sure there should be at least one scum there. Probably not Ginngie since my interaction with her earlier on gave me a good impression
~Bear

This is a really bad post I think. I expect hydras to differ but this is a really big disconnect that seems purely to be in reaction to Heartless calling them out on it, rather than them proactively speaking and comparing notes. One head has all townreads and the other has

nothing

on any of those players would be unusual to me.

VOTE: Polar

Not a fan of the kmd wagon right now. Need to read them more, they've had some issues with their read on me but I really feel better about lynching either Polar or Leon (Max) so far.

[Prism]

Rest will come tomorrow as it's currently late, late night and I've got somewhere to be in 4 hours and need to sleep sometime in between.

Ready or not, here I come.

[Prism]

Leon's actually at 3 so maybe I should move my vote there but I'll wait until I'm at MAXIMUM POWER (see: through page 66) to move it if I feel I should.

Looking at the 4 people on Kmd gives me the shivers though. The only person I like on that wagon at all is VNB, and even then I'm not really sure.

[Prism]

About to wall on mastina but strongly feel as though my Polar vote is the one more deserving of attention so far.

Like, his frustration is palpable. I almost feel bad for him. Is it because he is caught scum?

It is. He feels caught for the wrong reasons. I know I am stubborn town. I know Ginngie is supporting me and she's a disciple of mine so can be plenty stubborn. And you're a little stubborn too. So he's fighting a wagon he knows contains people he thinks are voting him for shitty reasons. This doesn't change regardless of his alignment, so his frustration is genuine regardless of his alignment. But he's just scum.

Okay, but why though? What are you expecting different from a townSpiffeh here?

*points to Spiffeh's Paragon of Mafia Hunters banner*
Let me ask ya.
You think that's a player who ad homs their wagon to death?

No True Scotsman and such. You've conceded he legitimately thinks people are voting him for shitty reasons, and that those people are incredibly stubborn. Both of those those conceded, it ceases to be ad hom, and instead is truth.

MaxwellPuckett (4)

~ Prism, Heartless, Ginngie, camn

This wagon is bad, and you should feel bad. Except scum, they're okay except that they're bad just in a different way.

Why was it bad? I'm not going to quote the second part but feel free to explain how Ahsoka now flipping town, and not being scum, changes your views.

Reading through the rest of the posts on the same page this is just horrid. The guilttripping of Ginngie and Spiffeh are awful, particularly the one against Spiffeh. Clarifying that they called kmd their mason buddy as scum while continually calling camn their mason buddy is questionable at best. #1166 is awfully apologetic for something mastina supposedly legitimately believes, and comparing that with her tone towards Ginngie/Spiffeh earlier I can't help but believe they're not really matching up. She takes offense that they're worried that she doesn't post as much as scum, but goes out of her way to apologize for her reads not changing much. There's this weird selfrighteousness that would be a

lot

more natural when applied to her reads and how they haven't changed.

VOTE: AHSOKA TANO

I have no energy to fight this and even if I did I'm not entirely sure I'd want to but even so that said I'm just.
sigh.
Not happy with this.
Not optimistic it'll flip scum and even if it did not optimistic it'll actually do anything to help us.

...You just called Ahsoka scum, in the same posting spree, saying she should be proud of being scum, with nothing in your spree of posting suggesting you liked anything you read in the interim.

I still really like the vote on Polar, but I hate this slot too, mostly for the last two paragraphs. Up through 47.

[Prism]

Bless Jae's posts on 49. Seriously, bless you for coming in.

[Prism]

48, sorry, but regardless thank you. I feel better now.

[Prism]

I get your point, the point is flatly wrong. Again, I made no attempt to play up how drunk I was. You acknowledged this when discussing me knowing what a backspace key is. I made it clear that the invitation was to

interact

with me and see what you got, not to townread me for nothing. You have yet to acknowledge this one, but reading any of that post as well as any of #420 or any of the post you quoted makes it clear what the intent was.

It was an invitation to interact and see what you got. Me stating that my scumplay isn't going to tighten up when I get drunk is just a plain fact, this is mafia not fucking Jackie Chan in Drunken Master.

[Prism]

Like, here we are, let's appreciate the fact that we're on page 66 and I'm still having to explain that basically stating "I'm drunk and presumably worse as scum, come talk to me." 40 pages back is not a scumtell. This is the last I'm saying on it, I don't scumread you for it, but the fact that we have mountains of actual shit to read and I felt it necessary to make a 7th restatement because you're refusing to actually read the point and instead talking semantics (Oh, it's less than surgery!) is disgusting.

[Prism]

I lied I'll post about it one more time.

I think it's obvious you were implying we'd get genuine town you because

I don't think you'd be willing to post as sloppy drunk scum if it was what you made it out to be.

That...is literally the point.

I am genuine town Prism, I have nothing to fear

. That was not the direct implication of the post, though. There was no attempt to deceive people into thinking I was drunker than I was, there was no "I'm drunkposting see? Come townread me for it." I said "Interact with either more genuine town Prism or more sloppy scum Prism." You want to scumread me for acknowledging that the latter could ever even be a thing, sure, whatever, but you're the one assigning the answer preemptively here. It was a general call to just interact with me, see what you got, and make the call for yourself.

[Prism]

ie. Sure, I could have been indirectly implying I was town just for the fact I was posting at all. I made it really clear in the post though that the whole point was just to talk, nothing more, and to leverage your advantage regardless of what I was or how large/small it turned out to be.

[Prism]

Anyway that was way too much for what should have been one post.

Someone talk Polar to me.

[Prism]

Honestly I don't remember that game much at all I paid so little attention to it, which was a real shame because it lost us an easy win.

Anyway I'm up through like 50 I think, I've got some more posts marked to comment on later when I'm up to present but it's unlikely I'll get to finishing up for another 3-4 hours as I've got to run.

[Prism]

I also want to clarify that Prism's votes that I pointed out and the calling my post town without saying why are a much bigger deal to me than the whole drunk posting thing. The fact that that one point was the one that drew such a reaction doesn't mean that it's the main basis of my scum read.

Yeah was looking for more reasoning outside. The tl;dr of liking the post was that I liked the tracethrough you did with regards to camn/Ginngie, and I did at least understand that you thought my drunkposting was deceptive even if I vehemently disagree that it was (for obvious reasons).

I didn't highlight what I liked specifically but I spent a decent amount reacting to the post and giving my thoughts on yours, here's the rest:

I think you're offtrack on Ginngie, but this is my 3rd rodeo of hers so I'm used to it.

Specifically, where I think camn went wrong in #182 is that I think she got them mixed up. Scum Ginngie is afraid and plays the safe route. Town Ginngie has a lot of faith in the ability of a town Nacho/mastina to correctly get their alignment.

Like, I totally get why people scumread Gin. I made the same mistake at first my first two games with her.

[Prism]

Spiffeh got around to giving real reads on Heart and Imperium like I wanted in 1356 and 1357. Woo. Go Spiffeh.

This head is suspicious of Ahsoka, the other one less so. I gave her 3 posts since she was close to lynch

More just flat out disgusting posting from Polar. Why the difference? I'm especially interested in which head was less suspicious, why they were, and what this discussion over Ahsoka looked like.

This slot is scum. These interhydra interactions are bullshit.

[Prism]

I have a lot of catch up and reading to do, but I'm feeling good after this flip. I had a feeling Ashoka was town, but it was more based on other people's posts than her own and I couldn't really find anything to take that read out of limbo. The confirmation that she's town strengthens some of my early suspicions, which I'll want to get to later.

Ehhh they gave a slight explanation here but still skeptical. Would love to see these other posts.

[Prism]

PV's 1475 brings up good points against KMD, pointing out the shallowness of KMD's read on Prism.

KMD's tells on Prism seem more indicative of looking for something to push than genuine attempts at game solving. KMD's the first player I've been pinged by.

The bolded honestly has to be one of the biggest buzzphrases of all time at this point, and I don't understand this at all. Coming from the person being pushed, at no point have I read kmd and entirely not understood where they were coming from. It's a big part of my townread on them. (Ex. Drunk thing was wrong but seemed more just like confirmation bias; my vote on NMS and scum pushing softs and stuff I mentioned earlier as something scum is

wary

of doing because they know it'll be scumread-by people like kmd)

VNB more so than Polar, as with Polar I mostly just like the points he brought up against KMD.

Cool. Why's VNB above Polar? Have they made points you liked?

She also seems more erratic and... careless? irreverent? in her play, throwing out reasoning like ""It's also an OMGUS read", or claiming that KMD is town but having him in his bottom tier, not to mention telling people to vote for me without voting for me. There's a lack of shits given in her play, which in regards to Gin I associate more with her scum play (fluffing it up in Civ) than town play (see scum!me fighting a stubborn Gin to get her to vote a mislynch instead of me)

Fluff, okay sure, but the causal link between scum play-erratic play is both not clear and is counterintuitive. Gin's up against the two people she fears the most when she flips scum. Why is she haphazard and erratic?

(Maybe not both, less if one is scum, but pretty sure Imperium at a minimum is town)

You read a push on me from your slot, read a lot more since then, read what you characterized as a bad push on me from kmd, agreeing with PV, and have the gall to slot me in the null line with no further comment. What's up Leon?

[Prism]

Fully caught up. Polar had a good amount of content that I'm hoping to go into soon, I hit on part of my problem with them just now with Leon-I actually think kmd's push has been entirely reasonable, still reading and thinking through the rest.

I have a sticky note with post #s from yeterday I really wanted to comment on once I was caught up that I currently can't find, probably buried in a stack of papers somewhere. I'll revisit them if I find it, if not oh well.

Gin's megatown for what I described above with haphazard play vs. who she would be up against, reads only really confirm that in my mind (I will say to Ginn though that metaing me with the first GG is a mistake-I had these changes I really wanted to make in my towngame, and planned out exactly how to do them, and was

really

hoping to flip town in that game. I decided to just stick to the plan and basically pretend I was town, but albeit I had some knowledge I wouldn't have had otherwise. I replaced out entirely due to being unable to keep up.)

Anyone hoping to meta me, by the way, my towngame has radically changed as of late. Recent example games are Newbie 1805 (Town), Perfect Blue Micro (Town), and Miss List (Scum)

[Prism]

I had Ginngie as a hard town read the first time around. Why are you bringing that up though? You think I'm town for apparently being wrong on a read or...? Like it still doesn't add up to me.

Your post traced through the camn/Ginngie interactions, and concluded by agreeing with camn that Ginngie seemed scummy for the selfvote. My post explained where I thought you, and camn, went wrong and why. I think the read is reasonable but camn got that calculation flipped-I don't think Ginngie is this haphazard as scum in a game with Imperium/NMS. She's this way because she

knows

they'll correctly read her, giving her a lot of bravado that can be obnoxious at times.

[Prism]

Repeating myself but to make it absolutely explicit: That post was quoted because it showed what I read into your wall, that I thought your read was legitimate but why I think you were wrong. Being wrong on Ginngie and being scum giving a fake read are two very different things and I saw it as the former rather than the latter.

It is relevant now because you specifically highlighted that I didn't explain what I liked about your post indepth. That post is the full response that got clipped out, presumably because you thought it was separate from the oneliner or said nothing about you beyond being an answer.

[Prism]

Being up to page 66 this wagon still makes me want to vomit. Could only get worse if Leon hopped on.

[Prism]

Yeah not a big fan of Polar's attack on kmd; see previous comments on Leon about me liking kmd's posts and understanding where they're coming from.

Interaction with VNB I also think came off really poorly, saw an avenue of attack and tried to take it but I'm not really buying the investigative intent. Their skimthrough of Buttersnap was the world's easiest copout, again with no real depth to it.

Re:VNB Polar is probably still my preferred but I think they're two big fish in a pan with the third one still at large, somewhere out there.

[Prism]

Readslist at the moment:

Super town: Imperium, Ginngie
Kind of town: kmd, Carya (Really waffle on this slot a lot, seems exceptionally skilled and capable as mafia, but would bet town), VNB
Fuck if I know: Notice, Spiffeh, camn
Likely scum who should be grilled and served: Leon

Kill With Fire, burn it to a crisp: Polar

(There's not as large as a difference between those bottom 2 as it might appear with the language, I really think Leon is scum but am more confident on Polar so far and feel like Leon deserves some more time)

[Prism]

"[/red]"

Nice one Priz.

~ LOL use previewwwwww I do that all the time with tags. ~

[Prism]

And yeah keep that deadline meter up, sorry for dragging us down so much. I'm glad Empress nancy appears pleased with my activity flurry and has rewarded accordingly.

That said I'm going to Disneyland for like 3 days so guess what?

V/LA until 8/28

So don't count us off this time if I post left, I don't have a smartphone anymore so I can't keep up with all these new internet happenings easily. Will spend some time each night contributing a bit though, at minimum staying up to date.

~ Okay <3 ~

[Prism]

"Post left" On a real roll today. Love you nancy glad I'm here pls no drain battery despite me picking Splash Mountain over you

~ Hehehe love you too glad you're here too and I'll do what I can! Have fun!!! I'll try not to be jealous of Splash Mountain ^_^ ~

[Prism]

I dig it camn. I really do.

You've probably gone over it at some point recently but I've read a metric fuckton the last few days and kept track of like 7 different strings of thought from a variety of people so please humor me a bit.

Where are you at? What are your thoughts on Spiffeh now? Any thoughts on me/Polar-you've mentioned me as a scum candidate previously, other times seemingly exempted me, but you're really nontransparent to me. I think if I get you as locktown this game is essentially over.

[Prism]

Most of my energy over the weekend if I have any free time is probably going to go towards locking down Carya, too.

[Prism]

Tempted to quickhammer him.

I won't, but it's tempting.

[Prism]

ROFL

THAT POST

LMAO

[Prism]

YOU GET TWO WALLS OF SHIT I DON'T LIKE ABOUT YOU AND THAT'S WHAT YOU COME UP WITH

DAMN

[Prism]

"Slot is kind of terrible upon reading" the only thing you've said about Max all game is that you liked their tone, now's your perfect chance to expound upon this Leon scumread but you instead just try an awful deflection purely meant to defend against a Leon scumflip.

Somehow literally everyone is giving you a pass. Actually astounding.

[Prism]

You know, uh, yeah, Leon looks terrible here now that I

really

look at it, you know, haha? And you know if this flips scum it's totally not me, it's Prism. Yeah, the one that scumread Leon for two days. That's the one. Bussing and all that. Nah I don't think I need to go into why they think we're scum. It's just them, not me. Anyway I'm voting kmd not Leon, just remember I'm not scum with Leon.

[Prism]

Come on Bear, what's terrible about this Leon slot that you're just now realizing for the first time, I'm dying to know

[Prism]

Like, are you actually sitting here saying that the team is me+Leon, and voting kmd? Me, Leon, and kmd?

Someone, anyone, toss me a fucking bone here, read this slot for the love of god.

[Prism]

Nacho? Where the hell is Nacho? I'm sending an SOS

[Prism]

Well, I'm back.

Fuck. Lot happens in 2 days.

And I didn't like the makeup of the kmd wagon annnnnnd everyone followed me onto Polar.

Sorry though, 100% my fuckup,

[Prism]

It's been a pretty long drive, not much has happened in 4 pages I'd imagine but I'll look at it and give some thoughts in the morning.

[Prism]

That...was quite the flash wagon. Quite the underexplained flash wagon, at that. And it's still my fault. Welp.

Instinct is still that Gin is town but will have to doublecheck that at some point. Leon is still scum but I actually need to be able to explain why given his posting.

VNB looks a lot better after that flip, I think, despite the whole "Prior info obviously they got it right" argument.

[Prism]

Night talk is honestly a really cool mechanic, I should have taken better advantage of it N1. This is actually worthwhile and is worth getting interactions for before the flip.

I wasn't caught up though and I wasn't even here that second day I think so I didn't do anything then, kind of unfortunate.

Mondays are my busiest days but I'll try to drop in later tonight and actually read what's going on.

[Prism]

From what I can tell so far this is a setup with a

lot

of town power, and a lot of neighborhoods (I am in

literally 3

). There is almost certainly some kind of eavesdropper.

I don't think VNB popcorned to anyone else-should do so. As VNB is one of my neighbors, I can understand why they have not yet fully claimed and will vouch that they should wait a bit longer.

[Prism]

Also confirming that I did not visit Ginn N1, kind of confused as to the nature of their claim though. VT, gave three names that possibly visited them though, ???

Also whoops VNB popcorned to Carya.

[Prism]

N1: I didn't get caught up in time to submit an action

This is lowkey hilarious, because I also performed no action N1, except by mistake. I unexpectedly didn't have time to come on that day, like, at all and is a big reason why I was super depressed. I thought I had failed everyone and was completely distraught because it's a fairly high-power role. My #1870's purpose was actually to soft that I fucked up and "I wasn't here that second day [of N1] and didn't do anything" N1.

P-Edit: Pretty sure I didn't visit you N2 unless it was redirected, check your PTs though. We will have a neighborhood if so.

[Prism]

(nancy doesn't post who is in the PT in the body, and my target has yet to check in)

[Prism]

What kind of lubricant? kmd also claimed it.

[Prism]

Such a role would be forced to target a non-scum member.

Not a big deal or very AI.

[Prism]

Ginngie, what made you say you could see camn as scum?

I feel like nancy would make a scumbutt a hated slot due to the previous game, she made common town roles, scum roles.

So a NU like Hated would be good for scum to counter the norms.

[Prism]

Just making the point to not try and outguess nancy.

[Prism]

Carya popcorning to Imperium slows down this game so much, ugh.

[Prism]

More of a complaint for Imperium than for you

[Prism]

She's not going to answer that, only say that such a thing would be fair play.

[Prism]

Fair, didn't pay attention to your quotes earlier.

Should have let that go without saying anything.

[Prism]

Should have let that go without saying anything.

nancy definitely talks too much but who am I to complain?

Yeah those reveals were bad imo but this is her game so I mean

I'm also pretty sure Carya is scum Ginn, so I might be biased here. To quote what I said on my Maxwell read, which was clearly spot on, just a hunch.

[Prism]

I'm less bullish on kmd than I was previously, for multiple reasons, one is flips others you'll see when my turn comes.

To Imperium, suggest either NMS->me or me and I'll give it to NMS.

[Prism]

Totally fine. Only stating where I'm at.

Your reads are wrong anyway I'm pretty sure, but then again mine have been too.

[Prism]

Little more than a hunch, too, but wait for turns and all that jazz.

[Prism]

impossible to be wrong on: Camn, NMS
(MAY BE WRONG BUT NOT LIKELY AT ALL) Cary

Scum in :VNB, Prism, Imperium, KMD

like you're really pestering me saying I'm wrong in there?

Yes.

To be fair I might also be wrong on you, really doubt it but that is something to doublecheck.

I do doubt all 3 of Carya/Imperium/KMD. I do townread camn now with the vig shot claim but that mason claim smells of bullshit to me, mostly on the NMS side. More worried about 3rd parties than I am scum there.

[Prism]

Hence the last line about being worried about 3rd parties on that front moreso than scum.

Elaborating more on Imperium-think I put too much stock in reading Nacho correctly just because of Buttersnap. My first few games I was overestimating Nacho scum, now I might be underestimating. He's been reasonable here but the low activity is a killer and I need to sit through and ask myself, "Is he

really

town?"

[Prism]

Elaborating more on Imperium-think I put too much stock in reading Nacho correctly just because of Buttersnap. My first few games I was overestimating Nacho scum, now I might be underestimating. He's been reasonable here but the low activity is a killer and I need to sit through and ask myself, "Is he really town?"

He's been AFK everywhere, activity isn't a thing you base a Nacho read on.

I'm aware. The issue is that my top two scumreads have both flipped town, and I don't think it's 3/4 of camn/NMS/kmd/VNB which were my null to low townleans.

[Prism]

Sum up why you heavily townread camn/NMS and buy the masons, if you don't mind. Yet again I have reason to doubt them, wait my goddamn turn, etc. how many people do I have reason to doubt I mean jesus?

[Prism]

Again to reiterate though I definitely don't think camn is mafia, at a minimum, largely because I think Carya really is a compulsive scum vig maker.

[Prism]

Does make sense, though my impression of hated/loved has been that they typically cease to be the case in LyLo situations.

Really not worried about camn scum much.

[Prism]

Elaborating on what I mean by 3rd party, lovers would be a pretty natural insert into the game.

[Prism]

Too bad VNB.

FWIW, I lean that VNB is town based off of our PT and their role description. They were fighting me pretty hard on that Polar scumread, had them as a townlean. Sure, might have had outside info, but they were both adamant that I should reconsider and think they could have given a better refutation than they did had they gone that route.

[Prism]

Spoiler: I don't like to lose, I fucking

hate it.

My reads were wrong. I'm mad. I'm

pissed

. Everyone is back on the table as far as I'm concerned. I will do anything in my power to get them right, and you will take this game over my dead body. I'm going to get this right.

[Prism]

I'm a neighborizing non-consecutive-target jailkeeper, meaning I can't do the same target twice in a row. I jailed no one N1, and obviously as discerned by Ginn jailed Imperium N2. (Strong town read early, good defensive jail if I'm right+good offensive jail if I'm wrong making it a strong choice all around, Nacho's a good enabler and I think it provides a good chance to pin each other down)

[Prism]

Forgot my popcorn and flavor.

I'm a Strap-on dildo, or a Spanish silicone strap-on cock. Practically died laughing.

Next goes to NoticeMeSenpai, fullclaim. VNB can fullclaim whenever at this point.

[Prism]

Reason I'm skeptical of NMS/camn mason claim and especially Carya being town will be apparent with VNB claim.

Reason of kmd skepticism is similarity to jailkeeper. I definitely think it's possible they're town though and perhaps even plausible.

P-Edit: Actual read is probably a scum lean, still think Carya is hard scum but I'm running off of memories not off of facts. I think it pairs questionably with scum vig-maker (Leaves only one scum open to vig assuming vig-giver doesn't get shot considering the receiver knows the sender) whereas roleblocking a town involves the risk of saving them.

[Prism]

In particular, I think my reads all game have been fucked, and my town lean on kmd earlier was likely wrong. I wouldn't set any of my reads down in stone at this point.

[Prism]

"I'm skeptical especially of Carya being town" is the correct reading there. I do not think Carya is town.

kmd I think I adequately explained my ambivalence.

[Prism]

What niche made it perhaps negative utility, NMS?

[Prism]

Also if that flavor is true this game is the GOAT

[Prism]

VNB, you no longer have any reason to hold your claim.

[Prism]

I'll explain when I claim but right now there's literally only one possible role in existence which would warrant us claiming, so. Unless I see that role claiming neither will I, short of danger necessitating it.

This.

Rest adds up fine.

[Prism]

Ginn: VT
Imperium: Flavor tracker
NMS+camn: Masons who trade access to PT so only one has it at a time
VNB: Loyal neighborizer (Tries to neighborize, only works if town)
Caryatid: Neighborizing Vig-Maker
Prism: Neighborizing Non-Consecutive-Target Jailkeeper
kmd: Conditional Doctor/Roleblocker (Target accepts kmd's visit, they're protected, otherwise, blocked)

[Prism]

Don't like this-I lean that Carya+kmd are both scum staring at that list, but the third is elusive.

One of my reads is really, really fucking wrong.

P-Edit: No, I jailkept Imperium.

[Prism]

I strongly doubt that NMS is scum with Carya.

Scum compulsive vig-maker means that camn is auto-town.

[Prism]

Roleblocked...by who Carya?

P-Edit Damnit Ginn

[Prism]

Also given that I said I was in three neighborhoods and the claims, doesn't take a genius to figure it out: I got the vig-shot from Carya last night.

[Prism]

I've been trying to run through how kmd's role would work as a scum role, particularly paired with Carya.

Town has a

fuckton

of power if VNB is real and Carya is a compulsive vig-maker. Multiple vig shots, two masons, a loyal neighborizer, a jailkeeper, a motivator, and perhaps even a flavor tracker. Carya getting to pick the vig recipients balances things out a little bit, but kmd's role makes it to where they're the only scum vulnerable. If they decide to deviate, the roleblock only has a 50% chance of going through.

Things that don't add up with that: One of the strongest elements to that combo would be the risk of saving a vig misshot when trying to roleblock, but scum vig-maker having the PT means that they're always going to know the target.

[Prism]

I mean, just being pedantic but VNB themselves aren't confirmed beyond their ability to neighborize. I got no confirmation of their role, it was onesided.

This is the second time the one-way mason bullshit has happened to me by the way and I hate it. I already know I'm town I don't need someone to tell me that.

[Prism]

I'm going to shoot the scums or we're going to fucking lose so have no fear I'm going to try to shoot the scums.

[Prism]

Oh-someone asked me about the lingerie thing from Carya.

Carya also claimed lingerie immediately in our PT, my question "What kind?" was actually to try and get them to confirm the slip. When Ginn made it a bit too obvious that they had fucked up I let out a kind of moan but it's fine. I lean that they're scum for it but I don't think that's hard-indicative, my own theory about the game's power and VNB's role are more what make me skeptical.

[Prism]

ginngie it's still not enough. a scum vig maker essentially gives scum two nightkills per night.

I already went over this in our PT, repeatedly.

Scum-you doesn't have the power to give this to your teammate.

[Prism]

Nope, to quote what I said as scum in Miss List that is unfortunately true for me as town too, I cover my bases.

We don't need to stall but we have time to doublecheck our reads.

[Prism]

Like, sure, ostensibly Carya, you are town and so is your role.

The head-in-the-sand inability to see how your role could ever be scum and instead just saying NUH UH IT'D BE BROKEN on the other hand is really tiring. It's not true. Scum getting to pick the town that get the vig is actually a fantastic idea mechanically.

I guess one thing that

doesn't

hold up for it is that they can opt to just give it to the night kill, but that's part of the beauty of such a scum role I think. You want to use it but it has its drawbacks.

P-Edit: ...You mean like me and camn?

[Prism]

That's actually a really great plan. The big thing is just getting Carya/VNB right.

[Prism]

Shit I actually can't jail Imperium tomorrow, I have to jail someone else.

[Prism]

Ginn would you like to remember what happened the last time everyone thought it'd be a good idea to flashwagon?

P-Edit: ? The last time it was from BTD6 in a Nahdia-modded game.

[Prism]

Confirmed, I can both vig and jail.

[Prism]

Did no one learn anything from yesterday?

Like, at all?

[Prism]

Actual footage of this game:

[Prism]

I can switch the vig/jail but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I really like the other idea better this sucks

[Prism]

Yep, can do both, nancy confirmed.

[Prism]

It was specified that it was only usable on Night 3 in the initial PM.

[Prism]

Holy fuck I forgot all about Heartless's role

This town is fucking stacked.

[Prism]

Yep, it does, hence my FoS all day.

Their reason for giving me the gun by the way was mostly just me sounding genuine from what I said during the day. Keeping in mind that I had just spearheaded a mislynch and did jackshit Day 1 I'm a bit skeptical of being deserving of a vigshot.

Reason given for picking me over camn was that camn was scared she'd die. Valid, and I believe camn really said this, but there's a

really fucking obvious alternative pick

, called camn's mason partner.

[Prism]

Is this scum?

Probably

But I haven't reread

shit

I doubt you have either

Don't fucking floor it

[Prism]

...Because in your own words, you had camn locktown, and NMS is her mason partner.

[Prism]

I don't think this is honestly that big of a deal, because fundamentally while there is a town reason to give me the gun somewhere I'm sure there's definitely a scum one too.

Bigger thing is more like, okay, you're town Carya, let's find the scum. Where are they? VNB...me? kmd? Imperium? camn+NMS?

P-Edit: Yep, saw that myself in a gambit that made me scumread her in camn's revenge.

[Prism]

Carya, you're really not making the points that need to be made here if you're town. I get that small accusations against you are also important to respond to, but these responses are like trying to rake leaves with a fork. You need to get the sweeping stuff, and so far you haven't really done that ("No way my role is broken if I'm scum!" is exactly what a scum vig-maker says, and it's really not true)

NMS voting, see: Floor it video, we really have learned nothing whatsoever.

[Prism]

Me/VNB instantly win, right now, if we're scum against you. We have two votes on you in Ginn+NMS. Coordinate the time in our PT, post at the exact same time.

Not going to get far with that avenue.

[Prism]

Nevermind, 5 to lynch not 4.

Still, not the best assumption.

[Prism]

Going to sleep, don't do anything dumb while I'm gone.

[Prism]

Again, I have every reason to go ahead and rush for your lynch today. Tired of this line of argument.

Me not vigging VNB tonight isn't a scumclaim, either, it's an instant scumwin.

[Prism]

Looking closer at that wall.

253 paragraph is weird, you appear to be under the impression that VNB gave kmd as a townread. The quote implies that VNB has a negative impression of them.
258 is a real stretch and is more joking around, which from what I've seen is typical of Shadoweh as a player. 345 and 429 are not really cases and are trying way too hard to play the WIFOM game. 683...okay? 919's reads are pretty natural imo, coming from someone who had largely the same. 1063 is literally a cop soft-she's not a jailer, but she picks who to throw in the slammer-and that's how she characterized her role earlier when assembling the list, and in general how she has approached it (Opting for players she wanted to lock down+were null to scumleans). 1063 is also exactly what town whose top scumreads are Maxwell and Ahsoka say. I do concur that 1366 doesn't read great but just in general this has been a really not-great wall from you.

[Prism]

Also, re: targeting an Aristophanes mislynch on my end, there's a conclusive answer there. I had no idea it was Aristophanes, as seen in 1363 when I had yet to catch up but saw he was in the game.

Here's some meta shit if you want to draw comparisons.

Spoiler: Some more meta on me

Town

Newbie 1805, Town
Perfect Blue Mafia, Town
Buttersnap Shitfuckery, Town
Mini 1853, Town
Mini 1896, Town

Scum

Normal 1838, Scum and its PT (This one has all the verbalized planning!)
Sakura Wars, Scum. Too lazy to find the PT because I didn't post in it on this account
Micro 732, Scum and its PT
Mini 1906, Scum and its PT

Some personal notes: Normal 1838 is probably the most stereotypical scum game I have as far as laying out my plan and guiding the vision goes. In reality I rarely bus, and despise it, but my demonstrated scum meta on site is the opposite so far. Buttersnap, Emperor, and Perfect Blue are all pretty good baselines for my town game-Emperor marked a dramatic shift in playstyle.

[Prism]

I'm not going to just keep responding for VNB on their behalf here, will let them do it themselves, but I also really think that one is bad and multiple points easily refuted with the others just kind of shrugged off.

[Prism]

Oh wait I did want to make one point that I nearly forgot:

Shadoweh isn't particularly bothered by her scumread flipping town. She complains about wagons but she never really follows this point up or addresses what it means. Does she have ideas about how plurality deadlines would change VCA?

You literally watched me flip the wagon from Leon to Polar, who subsequently flipped town, and then gave me a gun anyway.

Your opener in the PT never doubted I was town at all or showed any sign of trying to investigate me for alignment, but instead was postured more towards winning my trust and helping guide the shot. You already said before that "all scum has to do is pick a town likely to misshoot and gently guide their hand" and you picked camn, and apparently influenced her enough to have her say "we shot Spiffeh".

Come on, Carya.

[Prism]

Like, even when I specifically asked why you picked me, "genuine tone" was basically what it came down to.

Asked if you still felt that way,

after seeing Leon and Spiffeh both flip town

, one of which I had also been hardshoving, your reply was still "I think you're town."

Don't even talk about VNB not taking into account scumreads flipping town.

[Prism]

Being pedantic, but I don't think your math argument holds up that well. You seem to think that there's an "average" frequency of mentions of scum, different for scum and town. I would first take issue with this in that it really is very dependent on gamestate who is mentioned, but in general let's assume it's some kind of normal for scum mentions as town. Even if you go a standard deviation out, which is going to be a fair amount, 32% of the town will still go outside of it. Determining what that standard frequency is, what a standard deviation is, what the distribution looks like specifically for scum, all really vague and difficult to pin down things that are incredibly important. I'm skeptical of this idea that it works that way to begin with, but even if it does I don't think it's great.

The math also in general isn't saying much about VNB's alignment. The 4 people they chose to respond to have a 25% chance of being all town, okay? This isn't really saying much, even with only one post that's fairly likely, throw in multiple and it happens a lot. They responded on 4 people, if they were all scum you'd be bringing that up instead, if there were only one you would cite that as what? (and it does seem likely that kmd is scum) The causal link here is really tenuous

P-Edit: Haven't read the above, getting to it now.

[Prism]

Carya, can you explain why I am scum?

[Prism]

Like okay, you tried on VNB, I personally thing that was a pretty big swing and miss as far as making a case on them goes. Mixed feelings about whether the intent is really there or not (Trying to seem like you're trying to figure it out, over making an actual case, is totally valid and a natural reaction...but also trivial to fake)

Let's step up to bat. Me next. Let's go.

[Prism]

So basically
For Prism to be scum he would have to be scum with me because I have to be scum if you're town.
If Prism is scum with me you gave scum a free nightkill.
If you gave scum a free nightkill then this game is already over because the only protective roles are two people who need to be scum with me in your world.
If the game is already over why would I fake a guilty on you instead of someone like kmd who is easier to lynch and I was already suspicious of?
Hell if the game is already over why am I faking a guilty on anyone?

Ehhhhh this isn't great reasoning.

We would have been setting this up before the vig reveal, see: your cop soft. kmd is possibly scum with you, and perhaps even with me, is a good reason not to fake that guilty. Of the towns, me and Carya would probably be the most vulnerable to a fake guilty; NMS/me/Imperium have stepped up to bat hard for Ginngie.

I would still need to dodge a lynch in order to end the game with the vig, and you claiming an innocent on me and a guilty on Carya sets it up so that it's a 1v1 between you and I'm mostly out of the picture, guaranteeing a win. I don't think this holds only because of your soft earlier, showing that to some extent this was set up

before

we would have known there was a vig, but the reason for all of this is pretty obvious in a me/you scumteam.

[Prism]

Literally making a case for I would be scum.

Amazing times we live in.

[Prism]

I mean, do you actually townread me? If so, why?

[Prism]

Also, just saying, I should be near-clear at this point. There could be doubt last night when not everyone is on but the chance is basically 0 at this point that not everyone has checked in.

me+VNB actually is a game over at this point-there's almost certainly a third scum. Ginn/NMS would have to be one of the partners in order to avoid the blitz; NMS is confirmed via camn and Ginn is unlikely in any event.

Scumteam sets a timer for when to blitz, all post at exactly the same time using time.is so as to be exact.

[Prism]

I...really think you are underestimating my scumgame but honestly it doesn't matter, see the above, and even if I was scum it'd be to my benefit so it's okay.

[Prism]

Like I'm surprised Nacho didn't smack you for that

[Prism]

Probably true.

Order of things to check:

1) VNB/Carya. Am I sure it is not VNB? 100%?
2) camn/NMS. Do I think there's a chance they're gambiting?
If so: 3) Evaluate kmd/Ginngie/Imperium again, otherwise just go straight to shooting Imperium+jailing kmd.

[Prism]

Regardless, for Carya, chance of me being scum is now effectively 0. I guess you can say that kmd hasn't been on yet and thus could be a possible third but guess what,

I shut the fuck up, wait for them to come on without encouraging more discussion, and just do it

rather than make a point about discussing it all like this.

[Prism]

Actually, from Carya's point of view at this juncture, both Ginngie and VNB must be scum, or else it must be all of VNB/camn/NMS.

Any other vote would have been blitzed by now, unless again you think scumteam just hasn't had time to do it because kmd is AFK or something.