Mini 1937 ~ Girls ♥ Girls 2: Mini's Apartment ~ Endgame

[Spiffeh]

hi I'm bored someone come hang out with me

[Spiffeh]

I predict the scum will be camn, NoticeMeSenpai, and Prism

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: camn

[Spiffeh]

What are all your predictions for scum?!?!?!

[Spiffeh]

Well you posted the lyrics of a terrible song and didn't answer my question

I had nothing to work with

[Spiffeh]

Self voting is never ok

Also I would like to know why Caryatid's name is italicized in the vote counts

This is all I have to contribute

~ As per

the OP

, italics indicates V/LA.

(The

activity tracker

is also a thing that exists.) ~

[Spiffeh]

Me?

[Spiffeh]

Because that would be boring

I'm waiting for certain things to occur that haven't yet

Thank you for your engagement though I will add it to your file

[Spiffeh]

camn?

I'm not good at this game

[Spiffeh]

Why are you all being bad

[Spiffeh]

Hey Imperium and NoticeMeSenpai

Can you guys explain why I'm literally the lowest (and an assumed scum read) on your given readslists?

I can buy voting for me because I have done like nothing so far but actually scum reading what I have done doesn't make sense to me.

[Spiffeh]

Update: the things I'm waiting for still haven't happened.

Anyone wanna guess what they are?

[Spiffeh]

No I didn't

Voting and wagoning a slot that has done nothing for pressure is one thing

Neither of them gave a reason for me being so low on the readslists they provided and I'm honestly surprised that they'd think I'd let that fly!

[Spiffeh]

Btw

I think it's pretty ridiculous that Nacho engages like everyone about everything under the sun yet never addresses me despite being what seems to be his biggest scum read

[Spiffeh]

I think it's scummy of him

[Spiffeh]

I didn't expect a response to a specific post, I just think town!Nacho would do something to either explain his read on me or proactively sort me. He has done neither.

The things he did choose to talk about seem like busy work when considering he didn't even acknowledge his largest scum read, that has nothing to do with it being me.

[Spiffeh]

What does that even mean?

I asked him to explain why he was scum reading me.

[Spiffeh]

Hey Imperium and NoticeMeSenpai

Can you guys explain why I'm literally the lowest (and an assumed scum read) on your given readslists?

I can buy voting for me because I have done like nothing so far but actually scum reading what I have done doesn't make sense to me.

[Spiffeh]

That's also an odd thing to take issue with?

I was explaining a reason for scumreading someone. Even if you were right about me not addressing Nacho directly, what's wrong with that? You can call it "bad mouthing" but that's literally how the game works???

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Imperium

Meant to do this earlier

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Imperium

Meant to do this earlier

Spoiler:

Anyone town reading Nacho for the content he's provided probably doesn't have enough experience with scum!Nacho to shit on my read like this.

[Spiffeh]

And Spiffeh just.
Spiffeh just is scum.
You know those scumreads you get which you don't have the words for and yet are immensely strong?
It's one of those.

Spiffeh is just scum.
On every level.

And I legit.
Genuinely.
Think.

The scum are in a panic about Spiffeh being run up so early.
And them being powerless to stop it.

I'm absolutely terrified that the wagon will go away.
That someone will stupidly unvote for some frivolous reason. "Oh don't want Spiffeh to self-hammer". "It's too early to end the day". "Wait, hold on a sec, I think Spiffeh's town". "That claim seems town enough". "That claim buys him a day at minimum". Or any number of similar stock phrases. You get the idea there, right? I'm terrified someone will let the wagon we have fall apart. That it won't go through, that people will back down from it...

...When we have scum, dead to their rights, right in front of us in the here and now.
We also have a townbloc formed. Maybe not as strong of one as in, say, camn's revenge, but a strong start nonetheless. (For starters, camn/you/Imperium/us, just off the top of my head. There's probably more we can mostly or even universally agree upon but four isn't too shabby a start!) And that is something that scum can't break if we don't let them.

So let's not have a BTD6 mislynch this game.

Because Spiffeh is Secret Agent Jin/Katsuki. We might not have perfect agreement on the scumreads from there. If I survive the night then I can probably elaborate on my stances more elsewhere as necessary. But you have to fucking PROMISE me to not let Spiffeh escape our sights right here and now. No excuse, nothing, never unvote him, because we HAVE him.

mastina I've actually never been on the wrong side of your bullshit, zero hesitation, baseless reads before and I can tell you it's just as frustrating and ridiculous as people have said it is!

[Spiffeh]

Hey Heartless, what do you guys think of the fact that Tammy hasn't checked in yet?

[Spiffeh]

For Tammy and TTH to post

Why are you voting for me?

[Spiffeh]

You're boring

[Spiffeh]

I'll be here to yell at people tomorrow

[Spiffeh]

Catching up and posting "content" so people can stop acting like that's a valid reason to vote park me

[Spiffeh]

haven't rly thought anything of it

why does that matter?

Because Tammy being disengaged from the game will ALWAYS be the biggest and most accurate reason to scum read Imperium

Life advice

[Spiffeh]

Spiffeh, me putting you on the bottom of the list doesn't mean that you're my strongest scumread; in fact, it meant that you were the last person who I thought to place in that group. I thought that you actively doing nothing at that point (whether you were aware of it or not) was a line you'd be more likely to take as scum over town, but the biggest reason I put you on that list was so Tammy would look at you specifically since it's not like I have any real capacity to read you.

Ok

[Spiffeh]

Spiffeh votes are lazy. Have the Spiffeh voters actually played with Spiffy before? He is really easy for scum to wagon by existing

I've literally been mislynched in mafia like 4-5 times ever (and once as scum!) so this couldn't be further from the truth

What gives you the impression that I'm mislynch bait?

[Spiffeh]

It's also an OMGUS read \o/

I explained why I was scum reading Imperium, you are welcome to give your thoughts on that.

I guess that reason doesn't really hold up now, I can buy that Nacho left me in a sort pile rather than a scum pile.

But the fact that you're discrediting the read as OMGUS without acknowledging my reasons behind it either makes you bad or scum, neither of which are acceptable.

Also, can you go into detail on why you're scum reading me? From what I've read you've opted to take potshots on the sidelines (mostly having to do with my Imperium read) rather than actually engage with me if your problem is that I'm "doing nothing". It feels to me that your "scum read" on me is coming more from a place that wants to appease/buddy mastina instead of solve the game. And since getting in her good graces was literally the only thing you tried to do as scum in Biochemistry that doesn't make me feel very good.

[Spiffeh]

>opens mafiascum in new tab
>sees unread posts in nancy's game
>reads spiff's latest postings
>swipes left

Case in point

[Spiffeh]

stop talking about Imperium and talk about literally everyone else

You're playing defense all the time and you're using real life as a reason to scum read, it's weak as shit.

Uh, if I don't have anything to say about someone, I'm not gonna say it. As you should know from Biochemistry, I am perfectly capable of creating empty content and asking filler questions that look good as scum. I have no reason to do that as town.

This is the shit I'm talking about. If you'd like something from me, ask me specifically what you want me to talk about. I've only talked about Imperium because they're the only ones that have really done anything that pinged me (until now).

You can keep sitting pretty on my wagon without doing anything proactive to actually read me, or you can maybe ask me questions that will help you cement your read on me one way or another.

[Spiffeh]

And don't get me wrong, you're not the only one on my wagon that is guilty of this, you just stood out as the one "cheering from the sidelines", which is the position I find scum in more often than not.

[Spiffeh]

Then don't fucking complain when I only talk about the things I choose to talk about?

[Spiffeh]

And ESPECIALLY don't try to use my "not talking about other things" as a means to scum read me.

[Spiffeh]

I can buy voting for me because I have done like nothing so far but actually scum reading what I have done doesn't make sense to me.

I don't actually understand this perspective - could you expand on it a bit? I'm guessing that voting this stage is fine because pressure but having you as a scumread isn't fine even though it essentially accomplishes the same thing?

Because I am objectively able to recognize when I have done something worthy of being scum read (never) and I especially feel that this is the case here.

The way mastina presented her read on me was as if it was a done fucking deal that I'm scum, and I felt that was a ridiculous conclusion to make and I struggle to see how she can come to that conclusion so easily based on what I had done at that point.

[Spiffeh]

He certainly wasn't before but he lost a good deal of his cool since he got that award.

What does this even mean?

I have like 2-3 completed town games since winning that award and I didn't play AWFULLY in them

Maybe not Paragon worthy but it's a hard title to live up to

[Spiffeh]

Why are you waiting for those people to post?
What happens when they do?

Tammy and TTH (and Antihero I guess but he had already posted) are players with town games I greatly respect and can usually keep me grounded when I connect with them.

I am also able to easily identify when both of them are town and they are usually priority sorts. Unfortunately, neither have them has been overly active (TTH does have some stuff that I haven't read into yet).

Again I will reiterate that Tammy's level of engagement will be the easiest way for me to sort Imperium. She hates rolling scum probably more than I do, to the point where her level of engagement and enthusiasm is visibly different. So anyone saying to stop using "real life" when trying to read them can shove it, that has nothing to do with it.

[Spiffeh]

Tammy and TTH (and Antihero I guess but he had already posted) are players with town games I greatly respect

Nacho too I've just been town with him like twice ever so he's not as applicable

[Spiffeh]

I like Prism

[Spiffeh]

Tammy being the dominant head in the hydra is a pretty solid towntell, but it's not like I haven't led for significant amount of time in a town Imperium hydra before; getting worried because she hasn't posted in a 36 hour time period in particular is kind of silly.

And I welcome her to come quell my fear!

Tammy's activity has never been the issue; she has been busy in the past and can have less posts than many people but I am still able to recognize that she's town. Mafiaception comes to mind.

I am nervous that she decides to check in after I point this out but doesn't feel like playing mafia or something and still hasn't done anything town!Tammy-like. So I don't think my feeling here is entirely unreasonable.

[Spiffeh]

Your criticisms (ex. potshots) are valid but I don't think that continuing to engage with her is really going to help you-maybe if you want to get a read on her, but in general I think this is counterproductive and is more likely to get you lynched than anything else.

If I see something off I'm going to point it out and explore it to its completion. I still think her stance on me boils down to "you're not doing anything" which is easy to hide behind and probably continues to cement her spot in that cushy "town bloc" of mastina's.

Ginngie's replaced into a scum slot (on my team) in Biochemistry and she explicitly stated that her goal was to pocket mastina, which she probably would have succeeded in if others hadn't lynched her. Her continual pot shots at me without attempting to engage otherwise looks like she's trying to endear herself to mastina, and their other interactions don't make me feel much better.

And I don't really care that it's more likely to get me lynched?

[Spiffeh]

Spiff isnt that just how mastina is like, all the time
Yeah its ridiculous to be on the wrong side of it trust me and I havent rly figured out how to deal w mastina as a player yet and probs never will but its w/e

Yes, which is why she isn't one of the people I'm really calling out

[Spiffeh]

Since this seems to be a hot topic:

No, I do not like rolling scum. However, I pretty much NEVER lurk as scum. The only time I have was at the end of Biochemistry when literally everything was stacked against me and I really didn't see a way out.

Anti, what about this playerlist makes you think I'm more likely to lurk here than the playerlists in Biochemistry or Defcon IV?

[Spiffeh]

while she alive, dead and post game and even in random conversation?

Where in the fuck did that come from?

Subject: BIOCHEMISTRY [bad stuff pt]

So mastina is pocketed for the rest of the game. That's my MS-wife and considering we are in the neighborhood together, I have full control.

Subject: BIOCHEMISTRY [bad stuff pt]

If you're scum you could literally just scum the thread up and be obvscum and I'd let you get away with it; I'm not going to even try to bother sort your slot because I'm calling you town and goddammit if that's wrong then it's wrong but I want it to be true so fuck it I'm treating it as true.

<3 I love mastina sometimes

She literally held my neighborhood fucking hostage saying that she was sending you her one-shot for the night and that if we lynched you it would go to waste.

So you're very wrong?

[Spiffeh]

Spoiler:

That's it? You are just trying to get a townread and 'stay grounded'??
Thats what all this buildup is about?

I'm waiting for certain things to occur that haven't yet

Update: the things I'm waiting for still haven't happened.

Anyone wanna guess what they are?

What are the things you are waiting for?

For Tammy and TTH to post

What happens when they do?

I am also able to easily identify when both of them are town and they are usually priority sorts.

THAT IS IT???
What a let-down.
This is like that time I went to Tokyo Disneyland. I thought it would be so next-level alien.. but it was just fucking shitty Disneyland.

This is an awful post.

The reason I said "I'm waiting for stuff to happen" was because Anti said that I seemed bored. The "build-up" that you're speaking of is nonexistent.

What exactly would have been a sufficient answer to your question? Because this post REALLY makes it seem like you were setting me up to fail. And the fact that the foundation of your scum read (beyond sheeping) seems to have been hung up in this point makes me think you were hiding behind it to justify being on my wagon.

VOTE: camn

[Spiffeh]

Spoiler: mastina as scum nailing me as soon as I started posting.

Subject: WWF Mafia: Royal Rumble (GAME OVER)

Only read up to what was posted after replaced in, LUV, you scum read A50 because of his case on gerry, porque
Also gerry, why do you want me to vote Chick

I really am sorry, btw, Ginngie.
I knew that short of Priscilla/MariaR/gerry/Leonshade replacing out there was a significant chance of you drawing scum.
But.

Even if I hadn't been scumreading PeregrineV.

Even if PeregrineV was my top townread.

I'd be throwing that read out the window.
Because this is just your scum entrance.

I am sorry you couldn't replace town. But for what it's worth. You're last on my lynch list so we can at least hang out together for a while. You will need to die though. <3

Spoiler: one of thousands of mastina posts explaining why I was never a town read in biochem.

Subject: BIOCHEMISTRY - game over, finally, it's only been 5 months

It really bothers me that mastina was unable to figure out gins alignment, they are pretty well know about figuring each other out.

Read the fucking thread to figure out why.

TheRealGin-N-Tonic wasn't providing content.
Gin was a recent replacement into the game.
Then, Gin's real-life emergency hit.
As a result, Gin had given me no fucking content TO read.
All of Gin's content was basically fluff: nothingness. Formalities. Introductions. Non-statements. Lack of hard stances. But also nothing unexpected of Gin given
-Gin's status as a RECENT FUCKING REPLACEMENT and
-Gin's real-life situation cropping up.

And I cannot emphasize this enough.
I was not townreading Gin.
I wasn't scumreading Gin, either.

I had no read on Gin...because THERE WAS NOTHING ON WHICH TO BASE A READ. Because those things above, Gin would do as town when entering, too. They were null. Useless. Contentless. Lacking meat. Yet Gin as scum isn't someone who makes a habit of staying that way--had Gin done so I'd have lynched Gin, but Gin will work to quickly fix a lack of content and that is why I wanted to give Gin a fucking grace period.

Letting Gin live was temporary and meant to last ONLY until Gin's real-life emergency was resolved

(plus a short grace period following).
Gin got lynched when in the middle of a fucking real-life emergency. Beyond that being a shitty thing to do in-general (you lynched Gin when Gin had no possible way of responding), it was also still in my opinion shooting us in the foot.

Because Gin as scum either would have stepped up and given us useful content we could analyze...
...Or by not doing so with no reasonable excuse, been outed as scum. I was not giving Gin an indefinite pass. Nor was I defending Gin because of a townread. Nor did I lack a read on a Gin who had given content. I was defending Gin, TEMPORARILY, advocating for us to let Gin resolve real-life shit and then come back, give content, and for us (by which I mean me) to analyze that content. Content which is utterly absent.

You know what Gin's iso tells us?
That Gin is scum. That's what it tells us.
You know what Gin's iso doesn't tell us?
Anything useful. There's a goddamned REASON you're not seeing people constantly iso Gin to see what hints Gin left and that's because Gin was fucking lynched before being able to leave any.

And that's why I'm so pissed off. It's useless. It would not have been useless if the town had waited something like FIVE REAL LIFE DAYS for Gin to sort shit out. And we

had

that time; there was over a week until deadline if memory serves me. There was absolutely no reason to rush the lynch through on Gin. The town did so anyway. (And incidentally this is one reason I so firmly felt scum were involved because that rush to lynch scum doesn't come entirely from town.)

Spoiler: For funsies, yet another game i rolled scum and mastina shit on my life by scum reading me the minute she read a single post

Subject: Micro 719: For Us [Endgame]

Okay so change of plans slightly. I'm still going to catch up but I had a quick chat with mastina since she's around and decided screw it with regards to her usual post by post catch up style where she doesn't know anything of shit that happened further in the thread. (sorry babe <3)

So I have some feedback now. She agrees with me that 363-364 was a scum whiteknight and nomination of us. She said it makes sense for scum if they don't have a strongman to buddy the BP IC since they can't kill us and need to be on our good side. Also while calling us town advocating for us to be vigged. I also told her about the 3p hood ftr, but I don't think that factored in to this, she said that we wouldn't lynch Imperium or morph and if there is scum in that hood basically it's Ginngie's slot (and I think she separately reads Gin as scum from what she saw when she popped in earlier?).

Back to catch up stuff. I'm going to just ping stuff through to her and mess up her catch up.

VOTE: Two Real Humans

My point wasn't that mastina always town reads you when you're scum, it was that your goal in Biochemistry was to pocket her. The first quote isn't relevant.

The second quote came from when she was dead already, in the dead thread. Sorry, but I don't put much weight into this as far as mastina is concerned, since she said similar stuff about me when I had her pocketed but she never did anything about it.

So no this doesn't exactly disprove what I'm saying.

[Spiffeh]

I'm saying that if it was your goal in Biochemistry as scum was to get her pocketed, it's likely that you'd approach this game similarly if you were to roll scum.

And your inability to really articulate your read on me/do much to further justify being parked on my wagon is a step in this direction.

[Spiffeh]

bad vote

You're wrong

But why do you think so?

[Spiffeh]

You also ignored the fact that there were 2 other games where she separately scum read me from the very start.

I don't give a fuck about that

And if so, more of a reason for you to try to buddy up to her???

My point has nothing to do with her ability to read you, it has all to do with how you reacted to her as scum in Biochemistry and seeing how you could have similar intentions here based on your play around her/around the wagon she's championing

[Spiffeh]

It worked in Biochemistry, she held our neighborhood hostage to try and save you Day 1.

That is fact. I don't care if she tried to retract this on later Days or in the dead thread.

I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand and you acting like you're refuting my points isn't making me feel any better.

[Spiffeh]

^ this is not a town reaction

[Spiffeh]

Spoiler: Biochemistry: mastina treating our neighborhood (which scum!Gin is apart of) as a masonry

Subject: BIOCHEMISTRY [proteins]

Gin I aint got time for that shit.
I've not read so much as the fucking game thread--I'm something like 20 pages behind on useless driven, and I've only read the first 20 game pages so that's 80 pages to read (and some cases reread).
I'm treating this as a masonry. I made up my mind.

If you're scum you could literally just scum the thread up and be obvscum and I'd let you get away with it; I'm not going to even try to bother sort your slot because I'm calling you town and goddammit if that's wrong then it's wrong but I want it to be true so fuck it I'm treating it as true.

Other slots might seem similar--but there's more to it than that. Spiffeh it's just, mostly...experience. Sakura, well technically I have experience but there it's just feeling to be honest. I just. I don't think there's scum here and I'm working under that assumption, so.

Later, when Gin is the obvious lynch target for the Day...

Spoiler: mastina blackmailing the neighborhood to save Gin

Subject: BIOCHEMISTRY [proteins]

By the way I've moved from bribery to blackmail in regards to my rolecop.
I caught wind of a wagon on Gin.
Well, my rolecop invention is still being sent to his slot--and I've zero intention to change this.
If Gin gets lynched, then I effectively no-action for the day because I'm refusing to change my D1 target.

Everything she says about you poisoning her town read on your slot comes after you have been lynched, when you've already flipped scum.

This is evidence that mastina will go to great lengths to try and save you if she thinks you are town. Thus, I find it within the realm of possibility that you would try to buddy up to her as scum here.

Ways you are buddying her:
- Joining the wagon she started without much articulated reason as to why
- Taking pot shots at her stated largest scum read and the wagon she is championing without addressing me yourself and giving seemingly no effort to try and sort me
- posts such as these:

Camn, babe, there is only one vote I care about, it's mastina.

If you read the thread you would know that Nacho and mastina town read me, most importantly mastina.

Damnit, I just realized I had two tabs open and never edited the posts together.

Final post:
mastina babe, Cary ain't scum, Cary she cares too much.

~Trust in the obscurity that is a Ginngie townread~

I believe I pointed it out but

Spoiler:

{Prism} Happy Birthday, Prism!
{Spiffeh}
{Heartless}
{NoticeMeSenpai}
{camn, kmd4390}
{Imperium}
{VNB National Plan}
{MaxwellPuckett, Polar Vortex}
{Ahsoka Tano, Ginngie}
{}
{}

I think. Was thinking about voting Ginngie before I went out for a walk and I'm still feeling it.

VOTE: Ginngie

~ I was thinking about loving Ginngie before I went out to do my laundry and I'm still feeling it. ~

{Prism}
{Spiffeh}
{Heartless}
{NoticeMeSenpai}
{camn, kmd4390}
{Imperium}
{VNB National Plan}
{MaxwellPuckett, Polar Vortex}
{Ahsoka Tano, Ginngie}

Why was Spiffeh so high - the only thing he did was the "predict the scum" thing and I don't understand why that looks town at all. Was Heartless so high up for any reason other than "general engagement"? Why did you like KMD's entry?

Mostly on the same page with NMS right now; I didn't like Ahsoka Tano's vote on camn when it came and so right now they're more of a person of interest for me than they are for you.

Spiffeh was so high because I really liked his opening and I think the "predict the scum" thing, while silly, is something I'll want to look back on later in the game once we have some flips because I do think scum would answer that differently than town would. Unfortunately, he's done literally nothing since then, so probably I jumped the gun there. I liked his entrance though.

Heartless was a townlean because I liked Anti's tone. I'm trying not to use meta this game but I liked his entrance more than I didn't.

I like that kmd came out of the gate scumhunting, so I put him in the "null but is doing things" tier.

That tier is just above "null, hasn't posted, but it's the middle of the night in their time zone" tier (you), just above "null, hasn't posted, but it's daytime in their time zone" (Shadowphant).

I originally had fewer tiers but I kept finding I did feel a little bit more strongly about one person than another.

Scum aren't simply going to be that weird with reasoning, and lets be real here, it's honest.

- The fact that you act like Max can't case you because mastina (and Imperium) town reads you

Obviously, not all of these are bad on their own, and I can buy that the quotes I've provided are just how you talk to her. But mastina is a very egocentric player (not meant as an insult, I am too!) and I feel like you recognize that too so the way you've been talking to her along with your treatment of me makes it look you're trying to capitalize on her ego to net yourself an easy town read from her.

I don't know how I can better articulate this point.

[Spiffeh]

I'm both fascinated and horrified at how pointless this is.

I tried to synthesize my entire point in my previous post so please take a look at that before discrediting it like this.

[Spiffeh]

I'll be here to yell at people tomorrow

i'm p sure the "buildup" came from ^this post^ and... i mean... I'M also still kinda waiting for the bass drop from you given that you've said you're waiting for tth to post and i know she's posted

i don't think camn's impatience is entirely unwarranted

Ok, I can see where she can get the "build up" thing.

But can you give me a scenario in which I would have given a "good" answer to camp's question?

It's not her impatience I have a problem with, it's the fact that the whole thing stinks of her trying to set me up to fail, and I really don't see much else she's done to warrant a town read.

Are you town reading her?

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Ginngie

Whatever, the way she's acting in the face of my point, like I have no leg to stand on, with all the caps and "no logical consistency" garbage makes me most comfortable voting here.

camn's post was still bad tho

[Spiffeh]

I really can't actually believe you're missing the point so I'm gonna vote you and stop belaboring the same shit

[Spiffeh]

This is evidence that mastina will go to great lengths to try and save you

if she thinks you are town

. Thus, I find it within the realm of possibility that you would try to buddy up to her as scum here.

Ok let's say you remove the bolded.

The point remains the same. And her town reading you certainly wouldn't hurt it? So, you buddying her here is still something I can see you doing.

This is the last time I will address this.

[Spiffeh]

Anti what are your thoughts on my point re: Ginngie?

[Spiffeh]

You're both talking past each other. Spiffeh is posting things that Ginngie said that makes him think Ginngie was trying to appeal to mastina.
Ginngie is posting proof that mastina was leading him on.

Ok, do you think the point I'm making about Gin holds any water? Even if we're talking past each other, you recognize I'm trying to make a point and I'd like your opinion on it.

[Spiffeh]

i think it's not particularly compelling?

i mean... i guess gin WOULD suck up to mastina if they were scum/town respectively but i also think gin would prob do the same thing as town, mastina calls gin her "protege." i don't think it's beyond gin to be in the same unexplained reads vortex as nacho and mastina.

Ok, so how do you feel about Gin's handling of her read on me overall?

[Spiffeh]

Prism town

Anti seems town rn but I still have to read TTH's stuff

Max is a gut town read, I feel like this:

Gin: I keep posting w a lot more venom than I intend, please know that should be read in a light tone

is a weird thing to say as scum when emotion is your friend and being passionate about something makes it more likely for you to be overlooked. I don't see why they would try to walk that back as town.

I am aware that they've done a lot of "kinda defending" of me which I am generally a little leery of and could greatly benefit them as scum knowing I'm town but overall my gut is saying town.


mastina seems business as usual I just have no experience with her as scum and don't really know what she's capable of in that regard

I did have a town read on Cary but I did notice her change in opinion on me and I think Prism brings up some good points about that so I should probably pay more attention to her

I'm still wait and see with Imperium

Everyone else is pretty much null except for camn and Gin who are scum leans.

I really haven't paid much attention the huge contingent of players of {Polar Vortex, VNB National Plan, Carydid, Ahsoka Tano, KMD4390} so I'll try to get to cement a read on them at some point

[Spiffeh]

Prism town

Nacho is 100% going to ask you to elaborate on this so you should go ahead and get it out of the way.

Basically what camn & co. have been looking for is you scumhunting so don't halfass a real read like that.

I don't really have much to say about it. I mean I could fluff it up with a non answer like "your points seem to come from a town perspective!!!!1!" but that's not particularly helpful.

You just seem town.

And Nacho knows not to question me.

[Spiffeh]

i don't think it's interesting

You're dead to me

[Spiffeh]

It's a joke.

[Spiffeh]

I'm glad mastina has learned from her horrific play in Biochemistry not to commit to reads too early and be more expansive with her scum hunting

Oh wait

[Spiffeh]

let's be clear though spiffeh's posts have been problematic and yesterday I wanted to literally smash my head with a hammer after reading his posturing hypocritical posts, but some of his posts after yesterday's terrible as shit posts look fine today. though I'm not sure if anyone notices that he's danced around and not really interacted in a normal way and that makes me go all itchy fuck fest. I'm all cool and the jazz if you want to read our hydra through me, but you really haven't been framing that this way this game. You tried to make it sound like it's alignment indicative that I didn't post in the first few days of the game, then you tried to frame it in the oh you think you can read me way, which I don't like.

Yeah Tammy I'd LOVE for you to elaborate on why you think I'm posting hypocritically or posture-y

Like I said earlier, you are primarily how I plan to read the hydra. I don't know why you're acting like I've demanded your head for your absence or something. I guess it was probably a little early, but I brought up your enthusiasm tell to urge you to post and see if you were thrown off at the fact that I was keeping a close eye on you, something I'd expect scum!Tammy to handle awkwardly.

Your promise to catch up and then retracting that because you didn't feel like playing mafia is something I could realistically see scum!Tammy do. The promise to catch up could have been an attempt to quell my worries about your activity, and you not following through could be classic unenthusiastic scum Tammy.

Now obviously this is no where near a smoking gun, which is why I'm still at "wait and see" with you guys. Once you get engaged with the game and if you're town, I will be able to recognize that.

[Spiffeh]

I do want to remind morning me that spiffeh getting after nacho for not interacting him and thus that made him scummy and himcnot interacting with nacho in return and thinking it was insane when someone mentioned it along with saying that

bad-mouthing was part of the game

is something I want to talk about because it's something that I take issue with but can't quite word right now.

I did interact with Nacho in return. I voted for you guys and everything. My calling him out for not interacting with me IS interacting with him.

The problem was that I thought Nacho had listed me as his largest scum read (bottom on the list labeled " ", what am I supposed to think?) yet literally mentioned me only once when talking to SOMEONE ELSE. So yeah I felt that was worthy of being called out.

I also don't know what you're talking about with the bolded.

[Spiffeh]

Spoiler:

That's it? You are just trying to get a townread and 'stay grounded'??
Thats what all this buildup is about?

I'm waiting for certain things to occur that haven't yet

Update: the things I'm waiting for still haven't happened.

Anyone wanna guess what they are?

What are the things you are waiting for?

For Tammy and TTH to post

What happens when they do?

I am also able to easily identify when both of them are town and they are usually priority sorts.

THAT IS IT???
What a let-down.
This is like that time I went to Tokyo Disneyland. I thought it would be so next-level alien.. but it was just fucking shitty Disneyland.

This is an awful post.

The reason I said "I'm waiting for stuff to happen" was because Anti said that I seemed bored. The "build-up" that you're speaking of is nonexistent.

What exactly would have been a sufficient answer to your question?

Because this post REALLY makes it seem like you were setting me up to fail. And the fact that the foundation of your scum read (beyond sheeping) seems to have been hung up in this point makes me think you were hiding behind it to justify being on my wagon.

VOTE: camn

@camn I would like the bolded answered please.

[Spiffeh]

Related: I don't think camn is town here. I don't have much experience with her but she was obvtown in the few games I did play with her and I'm not getting that same feeling.

Her badgering of me to answer her (overall pretty useless?) question were an easy excuse to stay on my wagon and were formatted to set me up to fail and to ensure that she didn't have to leave it at its height.

camn do you have any reads on players that aren't me?

[Spiffeh]

@Caryatid what"potshots" was I taking early on? And how are they even comparable with the one's Ginngie has been doing to me?

Like I can't even fathom how you could interpret anything I said as a potshot other than the Tammy-not-being-here stuff which is extremely grounded in my experience with her, as I've already explained.

[Spiffeh]

Like- anything.
A Dayvig.
a day-inventor? is that real?
A reveal of some deep meta on some player's first post?

ANYTHING. Because it was YOU who was building it up.. not me. YOU who was all like: I NEED TO SEE A CERTAIN THING HAPPEN BEFORE I CAN COMMENT ON ANYTHING.
Like you were post-restricted or anything.
And then its just that you wanted to get a read on them?

I didn't set you up to fail- you did.

And Yeah- I have reads.
But I am waiting for a certain thing to happen before I can possibly share them :/

Once again, this is garbage.

I didn't build it up. I responded to Anti's comment about being bored with something that could happen to make me less bored. I never mentioned it again. This is a gross exaggeration of what I did. You took one minuscule thing I said and ran with it and are using it as an excuse to park on the largest wagon that you initially joined because of sheeping. You haven't looked at any of my other stuff, and you claim to have reads on others but there has been no visible effort from you to ascertain anyone's alignment beyond this extremely irrelevant line I posted like 25 pages ago.

[Spiffeh]

i mean... I'M waiting for spiffeh's moment of interaction w tth because that hasn't happened at all

atp w how long it's taking i'm assuming it'll be accompanied with an intricately choreographed dance and literal fireworks

Hi yeah I have nothing to say

I skimmed over her posts, there's nothing out of the ordinary I feel compelled to mention one way or another. I don't know where I gave any indication of having some grand interaction with TTH. Yes, I said I was waiting for her to post and that I feel I can read her well. That doesn't mean I'm going to force any engagement there when there's no reason for me to.

So sorry if I didn't meet your expectations

I'm sure camn will jump in here and use this to further justify her awful vote on me.

[Spiffeh]

You brought it back up, not me.

No, you quoted it for me multiple times to answer.

[Spiffeh]

camn is that the only thing that is fueling your read on me or are you scum reading me for other reasons?

[Spiffeh]

YES BECAUSE THE BULLSHIT REASON YOU HAVE FOR REMAINING ON MY WAGON WAS AWFUL AND I DON'T WANT YOU TO GET AWAY WITH IT?

[Spiffeh]

Your posturey posts are where you started calling everyone bad for voting you when you hadn't done anything. You then got all up in arms that nms and nacho dared to have you low on their readslists when you hadn't done anything and were all like as if I'm gonna let that fly. Like I don't get that pissy at the beginning of the game when I haven't done shit and people don't have e in their town tier.

Calling people bad is a thing I do like all the time. And for someone that I've played with a lot I don't know why you'd think there's something to that.

I've explained at least like 3 times my problem with Nacho. I would have had no problem with Nacho having me low on that reads list if he hadn't engaged with LITERALLY everyone but me.

[Spiffeh]

Spoiler:

That's it? You are just trying to get a townread and 'stay grounded'??
Thats what all this buildup is about?

I'm waiting for certain things to occur that haven't yet

Update: the things I'm waiting for still haven't happened.

Anyone wanna guess what they are?

What are the things you are waiting for?

For Tammy and TTH to post

What happens when they do?

I am also able to easily identify when both of them are town and they are usually priority sorts.

THAT IS IT???
What a let-down.
This is like that time I went to Tokyo Disneyland. I thought it would be so next-level alien.. but it was just fucking shitty Disneyland.

This is an awful post.

The reason I said "I'm waiting for stuff to happen" was because Anti said that I seemed bored. The "build-up" that you're speaking of is nonexistent.

What exactly would have been a sufficient answer to your question?

Because this post REALLY makes it seem like you were setting me up to fail. And the fact that the foundation of your scum read (beyond sheeping) seems to have been hung up in this point makes me think you were hiding behind it to justify being on my wagon.

VOTE: camn

@camn I would like the bolded answered please.

YOU brought it back up.. not me.

And like, this doesn't fucking absolve you for everything I've accused you of? You still horribly exaggerated the "build up" that barely exists, you still have given no visible effort to actually sort me beyond this, you've done nothing else all game.

[Spiffeh]

I call people that scum read me bad all the time.
mastina's read deserved to be discredited, I know how she plays, I don't care to engage her.
I thought camn would have more of a reason to be voting for me, she says she's only sheeping, that's boring.
Ok??
Yeah

This is my sense of humor and pretty much all of it is NAI as several players should be able to confirm.

Gin's potshots were being taken towards me as a means to justify keeping her vote on me, which is way different and actually malicious.

[Spiffeh]

This is where you were all like what's wrong if I didn't address nacho directly even though the crux of you're ohnoudint was that he didn't interact with you. And this is you saying bad mouthing is part of the game.

Polar Vortex was calling my read on Nacho because of his lack of engagement with me bad mouthing, when all I did was give a scum read and explain why I felt that way. Yes, "bad mouthing" in the way that I did it is what the whole game was about.

There rest of your post I don't think there's much for me to address.

My Gin and camn reads should be pretty clear but I guess I can go quote stuff if you need me to.

Can you explain/quote me reasons why you think Gin is town?

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: camn

[Spiffeh]

You still horribly exaggerated the "build up" that barely exists

No, I quoted you directly. No exaggerations.

And you play your game, I'll play mine.
My reasons are my own, and I don't explain myself to scum.

Yeah, you conveniently left out the part where Anti specifically asks if I'm bored.

You gave the impression that on my own I claimed "I'M WAITING FOR THINGS TO HAPPEN"

Also

YOU who was all like: I NEED TO SEE A CERTAIN THING HAPPEN BEFORE I CAN COMMENT ON ANYTHING.

This is how you characterized what I did. I never once said I couldn't comment on anything before it happened. I mean sure, I wasn't horribly active or helpful until Saturday, but now I have content that you can actually read. So I don't see why town!camn would wrongfully make a huge fucking deal out of this one thing and not try to analyze my other content/engage meaningfully with anyone else at all?

[Spiffeh]

And honestly regardless of their alignments, the behaviors of Gin, camn, and mastina this game have been unacceptable and it's immensely frustrating that people are just letting them vote park me for fucking awful reasons and engage with NO ONE ELSE, while going after me for stuff like "oh why haven't you talked to TTH yet" or "how DARE you mention Tammy when she hasn't posted" or scum reading me for my sense of humor??

And when I do try to lay out my thoughts on these players they either aren't acknowledged or overlooked for reasons like "oh this involves other games which means it's irrelevant".

This playerlist really shouldn't be amateur hour and I am at a loss for how everyone is letting them get away with this.

[Spiffeh]

Reminder that Gin has yet to give a valid reason for scum reading me beyond "you're not doing anything" (which no longer applies) and chooses to shitpost instead of give an update on her read on me or explore other options.

[Spiffeh]

Really don't like Polar Vortex's recent posts

[Spiffeh]

Ok I'm all caught up.

For the record, for the first time ever I actually have obligations during the day in the form of a 9-5 job until the end of the summer which is why I didn't really get going until Saturday.

Please don't cry if I post less content-filled posts during the week.

[Spiffeh]

In the face of being proven wrong camn dismisses me instead of acknowledging what I'm trying to say.

[Spiffeh]

Spoiler:

Subject: The Amazing World of Gumball! (Game Over - Perfect Town Win)

camntsuki I can't WAIT until you have to answer for your shit when I flip town

So look- my other half is still pretty convinced on you, but I am starting to have my doubts.
That said.. we will hammer you in a HEARTBEAT given the opportunity. Until that arises, I, for one, propose a game.
What if you and I assumed the other were town. Can we be more productive that way?

Lets try.

First topic: Can We Agree?

Again- my other half doesn't agree, but I am starting to come around on Kagami being scum. So maybe we can agree there.
That said- Do we have ANY other actual points of agreement on scumreads?
I am looking over your ISO.. and I see us, obv, and Kagami.. who else?

Second: contradictions.

Just FYI, there are no contradictions in our claim.
I have been pushing hard for us to avoid the NK, but my other half doesn't care and thinks it will make us more powerful- although this is unclear to me.
The truth is, the PM is pretty unclear about what abilities we gain- except that it depends on who kills us. The implication is nightkills would yield greater power than lynches. HOWEVER.. there is a timing issue. My reading is that we miss a phase if we die. So if we die at night we miss a day phase, and if we die during the day, we miss a night phase. Kats was reading it that we are just revived LATER. He didn't really get the missing a phase, I think. This is why I wanted to play scummy and avoid the NK, tolerating a lynch.
Now- I don't want to argue about this- but if you are town, just take it in and think on it.

Third: lets talk about Spector Deflectors.

Why didn't you come back to his wagon again?
I seriously am going to try and look at this from a Spiffeh-town perspective. So why? You were so convinced. Is it really that Imperium just stole your thunder?

Fourth: Cakez.

I am trying to re-evaluate our early scumread on him. Are you still townleaning there? He hasn't had much of a presence today.. probably because its hard to be heard in a thread like this. What do you think about HIS play? not just that you think badly about the players pushing him.. but his play independently?

Here is in example of town!camn (while admittedly seeming to change her mind) scum reading me, wanting me lynched, but still doing her due dilligence in identifying instances where we agree and engaging me in case her read is wrong.

In this game, camn has been dismissing my arguments against her, doing no analysis of my other content, and acting like her one horseshit reason makes it a done deal that I'm scum.

There is a stark contrast between how she handled me there and how she's handling me here.

[Spiffeh]

Well luckily for you camn has been scumclaiming with every subsequent post so you don't have to feel good about her anymore!

How do you feel about the comparison I made between her play in a similar situation in one of her towngames and her play here?

[Spiffeh]

I mean, how do you feel about camn's posts ever since you "felt good" about her early on?

[Spiffeh]

Ok, I'd appreciate if you'd take a closer look and considered the points I'm making about her when you have the chance. And if you end up disagreeing with them than I want to know what I'm doing wrong.

[Spiffeh]

Hey Anti it's about time you go to bat for me with all the bullshit I've had to wade through

But yes, the camn vote was obviously RVS and the "guess the scum" was just a fun way for me to kick things off. I'm confused as to how camn would interpret that in the way she did.

Even if she thought I was tunneling her from the start, in the game I cited earlier I was scum reading her slot; it is pretty much the exact same situation here. There, she opted to engage with me in a meaningful way despite our reads and tried to find common ground.

Here, she acts like she owes me nothing and makes no attempt to parse my other content, and her original "reason" for scum reading me is laughably awful in the first place.

[Spiffeh]

What exactly are you trying to prove here?

You're moving the goal posts just like Gin did. The fact that you're saying I've been tunneling you or whatever doesn't change that you're scummy as fuck? You're really trying to justify keeping your vote on me and it's visibly falling short.

[Spiffeh]

Like in all these quotes you fucking omit all of the times I explain my thought process. Explanations that you have YET to acknowledge or respond to despite my prodding that you do so.

I can't be the only one that's seeing this?

[Spiffeh]

Spiff?

Do you have any scum reads that aren't on your wagon?

You went from voting Imperium on a baseless accusation, saying Tammy wasn't here in the first 36 hours.
Then back and forth with me and camn with you being shown quite easily how you're wrong.

It struck me as really weird now that I think about it

I originally had a pretty biting response to the bolded but in an effort to be less of a jerk I will just say that if you think any of the bolded is true you're either scum or extremely out of touch with reality.

Yeah, I don't really have any scum reads other than you or camn at the moment. I am a very self-involved player and pay more attention to how people interact with me more than how they interact with others. I feel I am easily able to parse the reads on me that look like complete bullshit (you and camn) from those that don't (kinda mastina, Carydid). Previously when I've been wagoned in other games, there is always at least one scum pushing me, (Bella in that one game I can't remember the name of, DGB/kuribo hydra in Gumball, Andrius in The Thing). So yeah that's where I've focused my attention, and you and camn have had such awful play around my wagon that you guys have taken up pretty much all of my time.

If you have certain questions about people I'm willing to answer them, but you've had such an aversion to actually engaging with me to ascertain my alignment and are more concerned with making me look bad I doubt that will happen

[Spiffeh]

Antihero doesn't owe you anything and your manipulation displeases me.
I'll have more to say about camn later but I will go ahead and say I liked where camn's head was in the early-game Ginngie exchange following the self-vote hence my townread and the recent proceedings haven't done anything to change that.

[Spiffeh]

All I see is trying to fight every single vote on him, try to get one of them scum read, use that to say it's a scum pushed wagon, ergo he's town, and then is no longer today's lynch.

He seriously hasn't spent any time sorting other slots, just attacks on the 3 of Imperium, camn and myself over and over

Are you fucking kidding me?

What time have you spent sorting slots other than me?

[Spiffeh]

Polar Vortex do you have any scum reads at the moment?

[Spiffeh]

As much as I agree, I also disagree. Hydras are a joining of personalities, but dissonance happens. Hydras are more a dual personality extension tha an alt. You have to work things out else there will bw no agreement. And with some hydras, like Heartless, it is obvious who is in the hydra and who is talking. With new or unknown hydras it is definitely better to have heads in the sig.

Why are we on about this though when it is completely NAI?

Oh, also, I know you, Heartless. Is this not as weird as Caryatid knowing you?

I really don't like that in the face of being very behind, this is the stuff Ahsoka chooses to respond to.

I can totally see a weak scum player see me blowing up and do the bare minimum to go unnoticed and let me bury my own grave.

[Spiffeh]

I feel like I'm being overly scrutinized for the

[redacted]

est shit (not just by you guys) while camn and Gin are just allowed to sit pretty on my wagon and when I try to point out how awful their play is I'm dismissed for equally

[redacted]

shit

[Spiffeh]

Like I'm starting to maybe come around to the fact that Gin is just really bad at mafia and is more avoiding reevaluating me out of stubbornness than malice

I still think camn's play around me has been uncharacteristic of her which is why I switched my vote to her

[Spiffeh]

Heartless is that based off of knowing his alt?

Because if so please enlighten me.

[Spiffeh]

Gin what was your reason for leaving my wagon and going elsewhere?

[Spiffeh]

I don't really get why camn and Ginngie cling onto their awful reasons for scum reading me for so long but leave the wagon suddenly and without explanation

[Spiffeh]

The more absent mastina is the more likely it is that she is scum

[Spiffeh]

Gin what was your reason for leaving my wagon and going elsewhere?

You're boring me

When did mafia change to allow non answers like this to be acceptable?

Why do you have such an aversion to explaining your thoughts? (actual question I want answered, is it a play stye thing?)

[Spiffeh]

So you expect me to just let you run free ignoring my questions because "that's your style"?

[Spiffeh]

I still think it was ridiculously scummy of camn to act like the fact that I was "tunneling" her was
1. indicative of me being scum
2. meant that she owed me no fucking explanation and refused to explain her scum read on me based on this
3. able to refute the many problems I pointed out about her

I don't really see any reason people are town reading camn other than meta reasons (which I can't relate to) and her "early content" which I don't really understand when looking at it.

[Spiffeh]

This is why alts are

[redacted]

[Spiffeh]

I still think it was ridiculously scummy of camn to act like the fact that I was "tunneling" her was
1. indicative of me being scum despite her being aware of my play style
2. meant that she "owed me nothing" and used this as a reason to ignore my many qualms with her

I don't really see any reason people are town reading camn other than meta reasons (which I can't relate to) and her "early content" which I don't really understand when looking at it.

EBWOP the original was hard to understand and redundant

[Spiffeh]

I agree Ahsoka Tano is scummy and worthy of being run up but I'm not gonna take someone's word for it that their original account makes them like 20 times scummier when I can't verify myself

And I'd prefer to focus on camn who is being largely overlooked by everyone for reasons I can't comprehend

[Spiffeh]

Wow thanks for that brilliant insight

[Spiffeh]

I don't know what you mean by "horse I ride on"

[Spiffeh]

Nacho, my input, compare it to Frogg who waited for things to happen and then analyzed the fuck out of the game.

The only thing Spiff did was say Tammy was scum for not posting in 36 houtrs

THIS NEVER HAPPENED CAN YOU STOP PRETENDING IT DID

[Spiffeh]

I also never said that???

[Spiffeh]

how dare people question or suspect you

I'm glad you're starting to see things my way

[Spiffeh]

And no it's more like "how dare people question or suspect me without explaining themselves when I ask them to multiple times and then coming up with bullshit reasons to ignore any of the other content I've generated that should make me obvtown to them"

[Spiffeh]

Ok Tammy

I appreciate your reach out

I think you're mistaking "making the game all about myself" with me trying to determine if the feelings of the people on my wagon are actually genuine. As you've seen my earlier conclusions were that camn's and Gin's were not. Compare their play around me to Caryatid's, who explained their thoughts on me pretty well and in a manner I can understand coming from town. Gin and camn were unable to do this, which is why I grilled them pretty hard for it.

I have been coming around to the fact that Gin could be town and just has a playstyle that isn't very conducive to mine (to put it nicely). I am curious as to what you think of how camn reacted to my pressure because I think there's a lot wrong with the way she's handled her vote on me overall.

[Spiffeh]

Sorry Nacho I have to run now but I'll go back and respond to yours when I get back home.

[Spiffeh]

It worries me that it took him that long to find his footing though. 19 pages. 3 days.

I don't think this should be a point of worry; sometimes it takes a while to find things you feel good talking about, and sometimes it just doesn't.

And it feels like he's accusing Ginngie of doing the same thing he's doing (taking potshots) and I know hypocrisy isn't a scumtell but there is a tactical use for hypocrisy where you accuse someone of what you're doing and then people can't call you on what you're doing because they'd just be parroting your words back to you and in people's minds it won't sound like an original point and I think Spiffeh knows it's scummy as shit to do nothing and snipe at people because he's been doing nothing and sniping at people.

This is pretty similar to a point that Tammy brought up with me earlier and I definitely agree that it's weird that he's so bothered by Ginngie doing a similar thing to what he's been doing; she also had concerns with him being comfortable his play being characterized as "badmouthing people" instead of trying to read people, and I think that the way he kind of took potshots at us and called it "engaging with us" and accused us of not engaging with him when we should have been was pretty weird but maybe not alignment indicative.

I'm still having trouble figuring out why you think the way I went after you and the way Gin handled me are at all comparable. My reason for scum reading you were not even mentioning me in your long catch up that addressed almost everyone else despite having me as what I understandably thought was your biggest scum read. I don't consider this a "potshot". The Tammy thing, despite everyone misrepresenting it as such, didn't come until later and didn't factor into my read on your slot at this time.

Gin responded to my read on you with some GIF meant to indicate that I was either stupid to think that are full of shit, and later called it an OMGUS read when it obviously had basis elsewhere. I consider these "potshots".

[Spiffeh]

I'm not sure if I asked this before but Spiffeh have you played with Mastin much?

Yeah I've played two of my more recent games with her. Haven't seen her as scum though.

[Spiffeh]

I don't like the.. like fake "I have something to do.. but I am waiting for CERTAIN CONDITIONS" thing.
What is that? And then the conditions... it's nothing game-related, but just 'lemme hear from Tammy and TTH'?

Its more like- Im gonna lurk like crazy, and hopefully soft some nonsense so I can get away with it for a while.

I thought that this was a good point to bring up as well.
I also think "I'm going to do nothing" is a counter-intuitive approach to being hyped to play with people that you respect is town - whenever I'm excited about working with someone (and I have time to do so), I'm normally

more

aggressive, not less aggressive - means that they'll be compelled to interact with me which means I'll be able to read them better, and it means that I'll form a view of the gamestate and I can see how these people I respect feel about the points that I'm picking up on.

First, I think anyone thinking I would try to lurk and fly under the radar as scum is just dreadfully unfamiliar with my scum game.

Again, I feel what's being misrepresented/ignored by camn is that Anti drew out the "I'm waiting for things to happen" response when he commented that I was bored. It wasn't something that I brought up myself to preemptively silence anyone that would point out my lack of contribution, like she's making it out to be. I think it's a normal reason to hop on my wagon initially but the way camn handled it seemed to me like she was setting me up to fail. And the way she kept coming back to the point without acknowledging my other stuff looked like she just needed something to justify her vote staying on me for basically the whole game.

[Spiffeh]

And that explanation for her vote on me didn't come until later. When I initially asked camn for her reasoning she said she was "sheeping". Her problem with my "build up" (that still barely exists btw) wasn't articulated until it became clear that her original reason wouldn't cut it. Why not mention that issue when I first asked her?

[Spiffeh]

Spoiler:

I explained why I was scum reading Imperium, you are welcome to give your thoughts on that.

I guess that reason doesn't really hold up now, I can buy that Nacho left me in a sort pile rather than a scum pile.

But the fact that you're discrediting the read as OMGUS without acknowledging my reasons behind it either makes you bad or scum, neither of which are acceptable.

Also, can you go into detail on why you're scum reading me? From what I've read you've opted to take potshots on the sidelines (mostly having to do with my Imperium read) rather than actually engage with me if your problem is that I'm "doing nothing". It feels to me that your "scum read" on me is coming more from a place that wants to appease/buddy mastina instead of solve the game. And since getting in her good graces was literally the only thing you tried to do as scum in Biochemistry that doesn't make me feel very good.

You're right that Gin's interactions with you up to this point can be characterized as taking potshots on the sidelines, but I don't think that's an unreasonable interaction when it was a read that mastina was taking point on/felt the strongest about. I don't think the potshots individually were unreasonable; her OMGUS observation was fine and the judge judy gif in response to you scumreading us when an eye roll directed at someone attacking one of her top townreads.

I think your "she's trying to buddy mastina" point is shallow - she loves playing with mastina so when mastina is playing the same game as her she tends to buddy her regardless of alignment - why are her interactions here "Ginngie trying to buddy" as opposed to "Ginngie playing with a friend"? I think this is a pretty weak point in general.

I think that your "you can't call the read OMGUS unless you talk about the reasons behind it" point is strange. Ginngie pointed out that the only read you gave all game was a scumread on us because of our (perceived) scumread on you, which isn't inaccurate at all - why did she have to do anything more than point out something that she saw?

OMGUS has always been a garbage tell. It's an easy way to ignore what people are saying or make them look bad without having to acknowledge the actual reasons behind the read, which is exactly what Gin did.

[Spiffeh]

Spoiler:

Uh, if I don't have anything to say about someone, I'm not gonna say it. As you should know from Biochemistry, I am perfectly capable of creating empty content and asking filler questions that look good as scum. I have no reason to do that as town.

This is the shit I'm talking about. If you'd like something from me, ask me specifically what you want me to talk about. I've only talked about Imperium because they're the only ones that have really done anything that pinged me (until now).

You can keep sitting pretty on my wagon without doing anything proactive to actually read me, or you can maybe ask me questions that will help you cement your read on me one way or another.

This just seems excessively obstinate. It's page 19, it's not incredibly unreasonable to assume that you have thoughts beyond "I think that Imperium is scum because Nacho had me on the bottom of his scumlist and didn't engage me", and railing against Ginngie for her not being specific enough in her requests when she just got done asking you for something (she's not interested in your thoughts on anyone in particular, she just wants to see what else you're thinking about) is again unreasonable. You're right that, at that point, all Ginngie was doing was chilling on your wagon, but the reason she was doing so seemed to be to pressure you into doing something (which was a stance that you didn't find unreasonable at all in 240).

I understand the intent behind making a push like this - you're trying to read people who are pushing your wagon - but it's causing this situation where people are voting you for not doing them and you're pushing them for not explaining their read on you good enough and that leaves me trying to parse weird interactions like this one.

I understand your point here but I'm not gonna make up opinions or feelings that I don't have to appease anyone. I do that as scum, I have no need to do it as town. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask Gin to point me in a direction she was interested in hearing my thoughts about. Ignoring this request seemed to me like she didn't really have any intention of reading me and was more concerned with looking like she was "pressuring" me.

[Spiffeh]

Sorry for quoting the whole post every time, if I wasn't on a phone I would only be quoting the parts relevant to my response.

~ I shall come to your assistance, dear Spiffeh. ~

[Spiffeh]

Spiffeh what was Mastina's read on you in bio?

Town

Through the entire game

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: mastina

[Spiffeh]

Oh

VOTE: NoticeMeSenpai

~ I will in fact count a "mastina" vote as a vote for the hydra. This vote therefore won't be counted, just like any redundant vote. ~

[Spiffeh]

Now that mastina has demonstrated her inability to actually reconsider my alignment and literally just attached "this is scum" to like every post of mine, we are now free to ignore her

[Spiffeh]

The worst part is she's probably town

Still have my problems with camn but I think TTH brought up some good points regarding her reaction to Ginngie's self vote that seemed town and resonated with me.

I don't really have any solid scum reads anymore.

Town: {Heartess, NoticeMeSenpai}
Townlean: {Imperium, Prism, Ginngie, Caryatid, VNB National Plan}
Null: {Kmd4390, MaxwellPuckett, camn}
Scumlean: {Ahsoka Tano, Polar Vortex}
Scum: {}

I have vague town feelings about too many slots and that makes me uncomfortable.

I'll explain this more after I get home from work, especially the Polar Vortex read. Feel free to ask me other questions in the mean time.

[Spiffeh]

Jae what about that post specifically makes you think it doesn't come from scum?

[Spiffeh]

Uh ok

I mean you're right so good job?

From this brief interaction I feel that your head of this hydra will be a lot easier for me to interact with so if you could get into the game ASAP that would be cool

[Spiffeh]

SNIPED

~ ...You were saying? ~

[Spiffeh]

SNIPED

~ ...You were saying? ~

wow you cheated

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Ahsoka Tano

[Spiffeh]

Bye Anti I'll miss you

[Spiffeh]

Hey Ari

You are probably my desired lynch right now not because of your absence, but because when you were around you post this where you devoted a decent amount of text about hydrae stuff which is irrelevant and looks more like scum trying to find something to contribute so they can't be accused of not trying.

It also seemed like your absence began when I started getting into the game and making enemies with the people pushing my wagon, and I can see scum trying to lie low in that situation to let me bury my own grave as much as possible.

This stuff, along with the fact that I have vague town vibes from almost every other slot, makes you the best option.

[Spiffeh]

So I was scum leaning Polar Vortex earlier and still do. There were a few posts that rubbed me the wrong way on a gut level that I couldn't really explain so I let it go for a little bit.

I asked them if they had any scum reads at one point because they seemed to be commenting about a lot of stuff without really going after anyone in particular, which isn't really all that bad on its own.

They responded saying that both heads had different scum reads and would post them together soon (which never happened btw).

Later, when people seem to be condensing on Ahsoka Tano, we get this:

Yo Ahsoka, you have 3 posts to convince me not to lynch you. Go go go
Yo Tammy, will you interact with my slot? You've said lots of vague things about us, but I can't really get a good read on you yet.
~Bearbert

There was some precedent here because they had expressed agreement with me about Ahsoka trying to fly under the radar while I buried myself, but it's more the way the read was presented than the read itself. For a slot who's been playing their scum reads so close to the vest I find it kind of out of character for them to approach Ahsoka in this manner.

I also think the "you have 3 posts to convince me" thing is a way to throw in support for a wagon without really committing to it, but this is something I'll probably explore depending on Ahsoka's flip.

Honestly writing this out I've become less convinced but it's still ~weird~ and "~weird~" is scummier than like 90% of the playerlist at the moment so I think this is worth questioning.

[Spiffeh]

Anyway

I am CONVINCED Heartless is town and I don't see that changing ever.

Mostly from the way that TTH tried to level with me and explain why she thought camn was town. I don't see the advantage she would get by doing this as scum, unless camn was her scum buddy, but I really doubt she would go all out to convince me in this way if that were the case. It just really looks like she's town reading both of us and genuinely wants me to see what she's seeing.

Also Anti has been pretty town from the start (please don't replace out ily).

So yeah, Heartless will not be dying tonight.

[Spiffeh]

Honestly the same could be applied to Imperium with Tammy trying to explain why she was town reading both Gin and camn

Imperium just hasn't been around enough to be promoted to a full fledged town read!

[Spiffeh]

Game starts now.

I have a lot of catch up and reading to do, but I'm feeling good after this flip. I had a feeling Ashoka was town, but it was more based on other people's posts than her own and I couldn't really find anything to take that read out of limbo. The confirmation that she's town strengthens some of my early suspicions, which I'll want to get to later.

What early suspicions are you talking about?

From what I can tell you never had any.

[Spiffeh]

I agree with pretty much everything TTH said in 1392. I would just move VNB National Plan and maybe Imperium down a peg.

But her lynch pool is mostly where I'm at right now.

[Spiffeh]

I'm not sure if I asked this before but Spiffeh have you played with Mastin much?

Yeah I've played two of my more recent games with her. Haven't seen her as scum though.

You were scum together with her in Disney Villain. She was town together with you in Cougar's Den and Gumball and you were scum against her in Defcon and Biochemistry.

I know you're dead now but she got lynched like Day 2 in Disney Villain after lurking and having trouble getting into the game. I have never been town in the same game she was scum.

[Spiffeh]

Oh wait I thought TTH said that my bad

You're not dead

[Spiffeh]

All caught up

Leonshade's few content posts are pretty bad and give off the vibe of someone going through the motions rather than someone trying to solve the game.

For instance,

VOTE: ahsoka

max is still pretty scummy but i'm near certain this is scum

VOTE: Ahsoka yeah.

VOTE: Ahshoka

WOO

Like there's nothing meaningful to analyze here without full context of their reads development, especially with Caryatid's statement in 1349 that everyone had Ari as a background SR. Spiffeh and camn's jump on the wagon are the same, jumping on a lurker lynch is too easy to be analysed.

If the conclusion is "nothing meaningful to analyze", then what's the point of posting this in the first place? I don't see why town would devote 1 of their 3 content posts to something that ultimately doesn't matter. I feel like scum are more likely to say something like this because "hey look at me thinking critically about the game!!!", whereas I don't think town would waste their time. It's as if he realizes "analyzing the wagon" is something that's expected so he made sure everyone knew he was doing it even though it didn't result in anything helpful.

He grabbed quotes and everything, it seems like he's trying to pass this off as a meaningful contribution when it's actually useless.

VOTE: Leonshade

[Spiffeh]

Mostly talking about VNB and regretting not going after them and Kmd harder on day 1.

Along these lines, what exactly motivated you to go back to KMD's earlier posts? Because in your "case" against him you cite things that happened earlier in the game, which isn't really bad, but I find it weird that he seemed to be nowhere on your radar in the previous day and the scum read seems to come out of thin air.

[Spiffeh]

Also are you saying that you're also scum reading VNB after your exchange with them?

[Spiffeh]

Prism I had as a pretty hard town read earlier but he hasn't posted like anything helpful in a long time and I'd like him to do that again

Same goes for Caryatid

KMD isn't an awful vote I guess. I remember playing with his alt before who I was easily able to identify as town and I'm obviously not getting that here. I just don't think anything content-wise against him is all that compelling.

I still take issue with the fact that Polar Vortex never gave me a straight answer about who they were scum reading and then suddenly go after Aristophanes in a way that Ari couldn't really defend himself or respond to, right when that wagon started gaining traction. I disagree with the reasons for their push on VNB but their adamant defending of that line of questioning feels genuine to me.

So idk

[Spiffeh]

How do you feel about Max/Leon?

[Spiffeh]

That was meant to discourage scum from shooting them

Clearly it didn't work

[Spiffeh]

Should be here tonight

[Spiffeh]

UNVOTE:

[Spiffeh]

Can we not hammer until I get a chance to look at this game tonight

[Spiffeh]

Good job Town, you guys definitely picked up my slack this game

I'm so proud!

[Spiffeh]

i try .

That's my game- too scummy to nightkill, too town to lynch.

But you're always killed N1!

[Spiffeh]

Thanks for modding nancy!

Sorry to everyone about my attitude early on and how I got pretty inactive after Day 1-2.

[Spiffeh]

Oh and my reads were p. bad too

I had an A+ game!