Mini 1937 ~ Girls ♥ Girls 2: Mini's Apartment ~ Endgame

[Polar Vortex]

Vote: Spiffeh

Hi!

[Polar Vortex]

What are all your predictions for scum?!?!?!

Spiffeh, NoticeMeSenpai, MaxwellPuckett.

[Polar Vortex]

That's what I was going to say, damn it.
Theyre the only players here I know properly
Am I forgetting you from somewhere polar bear hydra

It's Polar VORTEX! The Snow half doesn't remember ever playing with you.

So... You were gonna say you're scum? Plus, the guy you voted for 0 seconds... Hmmm. Interesting.

[Polar Vortex]

Yo, the Bearbert head of the hydra is here^_^. Nice to meet ya.

[Polar Vortex]

So, I think the soft claim looks innocent personally. The tone of it looked genuine to me
I disliked the way Prism approached it. If Notice is innocent, I'd expect scum to jump on it. Having this kind of discussion would be very good for scum as it distracts from more relevant things
I've only played with both heads of the Imperium hydra before so I don't have meta on any of you(I might have played a game with Spiffeh before)

~Bearbert head

[Polar Vortex]

more relevant things

such as.......?

Nothing in particular. My point is that scum likes to control the game by making the discussion all about irrelevant things(for example they tend to focus on things like scumslips or put fire in 1v1s beetween townies)

[Polar Vortex]

Ahsoka Tano is terrible in the way I thought only Aristophanes could make me feel and I want to purge them from this earth.

Can you be more specific?

[Polar Vortex]

Btw

I think it's pretty ridiculous that Nacho engages like everyone about everything under the sun yet never addresses me despite being what seems to be his biggest scum read

Then why don't you directly address him about that?

[Polar Vortex]

What does that even mean?

I asked him to explain why he was scum reading me.

It came off more like a complaint than a question. I mean, you found a lead in nacho's scum read on you, but instead of asking "hey nacho, why exactly are you scum reading me?", you posted how you found it scummy that he didn't address you. You're upset at someone and instead of confronting them, you badmouth them.

[Polar Vortex]

Ahsoka Tano is terrible in the way I thought only Aristophanes could make me feel and I want to purge them from this earth.

Can you be more specific?

That would be difficult, they haven't done much more then make a terrible weak useless post and leave.

Why are her terrible weak posts scummier than Kmd's vote and reasons?

[Polar Vortex]

Hey Imperium and NoticeMeSenpai

Can you guys explain why I'm literally the lowest (and an assumed scum read) on your given readslists?

I can buy voting for me because I have done like nothing so far but actually scum reading what I have done doesn't make sense to me.

Thanks, I missed that.

[Polar Vortex]

That's also an odd thing to take issue with?

I was explaining a reason for scumreading someone. Even if you were right about me not addressing Nacho directly, what's wrong with that? You can call it "bad mouthing" but that's literally how the game works???

It wouldn't have been wrong, but your answer would tell me why it wasn't right? I was wondering if you were just upset at being voted for bad/no reason or if you were also using the lack of explanations to paint nacho as scum. Directly confronting them does show a townier mindset than complaining about them and calling them scum.

[Polar Vortex]

Why are her terrible weak posts scummier than Kmd's vote and reasons?

That plays into my theory that bad scum are more likely to lurk because they don't have to forward any content.
See: So many people being caught up in Ginngie self-voting despite it being so passe to vote yourself for reactions these days.

What about those people?

[Polar Vortex]

I don't get the connection you're making between them and Ashoka, or what you think of them because you haven't said anything about it.

[Polar Vortex]

Ok, again, what about them? Do you have a problem with the people (who?) who paid attention to Gingie's vote? Why should they be looking at lurkers? And is it really accurate to call Ashuki a lurker?

[Polar Vortex]

I'm saying that I think Atsuki person is bad scum lurking, I don't understand what you're asking about making a connection to those other people.
Oh, wait, I see what's confusing. I mean that a bunch of people payed extra close attention to Ginngie because they're doing Scary Things whereas lurkers get ignored.

The Ginngie wagon/discussion about self vote was awkward and completly uninspiring. But commenting on it isn't that scummy IMO. And yes, pressuring lurkers is good but your arguement seems like it is centered around Ahsoka commenting on Ginngie, but this point kind of says it doesn't? Sorry, I don't really get your logic here

~Bearbert

[Polar Vortex]

more relevant things

such as.......?

Nothing in particular. My point is that scum likes to control the game by making the discussion all about irrelevant things(for example they tend to focus on things like scumslips or put fire in 1v1s beetween townies)

I think your inability to answer Anti's question points to a fundamental weakness in your argument.
From personal experience, I think very few scum care about "controlling the game" and more about simply posting things that aren't going to get scumread. As such, the average scum tend to gravitate towards safe, conservative positions. My prediction here is that, regardless of what Notice is, scum probably townread Notice if they weighed in at all. I don't think the theory that Prism is rapacious scum after a Notice mislynch really stands up to a realistic assessment of what Prism thought he could achieve.

Now, could you be a dear and remind me why you're voting Spiffeh? I'm following the discussion and it feels you're just trying to keep pace to stay on a semantics treadmill.

Then the scum you played with suck lol. My first priority when I'm scum is controlling the game. It's like chess, you can do lots of small tricks but if you don't control the board you lose.
And the thing about scum being conservative is also bullshit. Bad scum are conservative, good scum isn't

[Polar Vortex]

That's nice.
Why are you voting Spiffeh?

Dunno why the other head voted him, but the wagon seems comfy

[Polar Vortex]

I've already told you my reasoning. Asking the same question three different ways isn't going to get you a different answer. But I also think its easier for you to question me about what I think, because I'll provide answers, then it is for you to look into those few marshmellows of posts over there and find anything you could ask about.

You still haven't explained what's the deal with you and the people who focused on the Gingie self vote. Why did you mention that? You pointed fingers in a vague direction for a reason I still don't understand and I want to know who you were pointing at and why.

Now, could you be a dear and remind me why you're voting Spiffeh? I'm following the discussion and it feels you're just trying to keep pace to stay on a semantics treadmill.

RVS vote. Not really into it, but it became a nice little wagon, we didn't want to break it.

[Polar Vortex]

Directly confronting them does show a townier mindset than complaining about them and calling them scum.

I don't think the word you're looking for here is "townier", just that there's a productive approach and a not so productive approach here.

I mean in comparison, it is townier than the negative approach I thought he did at first. In itself it's just ok/not scummy.

[Polar Vortex]

What's happening to this game... More lesbians, less meta and shit!

Bear and I haven't talked much about our reads yet (and the ones we did we disagreed...), but I'll try to put my head into this game and post some words.

[Polar Vortex]

I'm gonna start with Spiffeh, that's a read we both agreed on actually. We don't really get the wagon on him, I mean it was fine to get the game going, but I really don't see how people like Senpai can feel so strongly about him being scum.

I like Camn, Prism, Maxwell and Heartless.

I don't like Kmd and VNB.

I'm not sure how I feel about Ahoska yet.

...I'm really uninspired today.

[Polar Vortex]

Unvote.

[Polar Vortex]

HEY POLAR VORTEX - Has snowstorm been around?

Yes. Can't you tell us apart?

RVS vote. Not really into it, but it became a nice little wagon, we didn't want to break it.

What is nice about the wagon? And what is your read on Spiff?

It's nice in the way that wagons are nice. It creates pressure, helps us evaluate Spiffeh and other players involved, etc.

"Not really into it." pretty much sums up our read on him. I wouldn't call it a town read, but we're not scum reading him.

I don't remember playing with mastina before. Is this normal? By 'this' I mean the uhhh, dramatic arguments that don't include uhhhh, facts of any kind.

It's been a long time since I played with Mastina, but having pretty strong feelings that aren't always well justified fits what I remember of her play; her town play, more specifically.


Caryatid's #696 show's exactly how I feel about Ginngie, which is to say I don't know how I feel about her.

And since I'm mentioning her, I kinda like Caryatid overall. I don't recall anything in specific that made me think "this player is town", but she made a good first impression on me. Also, scum don't paint.

[Polar Vortex]

So I have a friend at another site who has this belief in this 1 in 3 thing, in which scum when positing a group of three names always lists one of their partners. I don't necessarily believe in the 1 in 3 thing, but it will be interesting to see if any of the people who listed three people who might be scum at the beginning will be scum.

does that make sense?

Just an end game thought really.

It does make some sense, scum will always be aware when confronted with posting names. "Do I post only town names? Do I sneak in a partner?...". So I agree with whoever liked that Spiffeh started that. It is something I think would be less likely to come from scum.


I can't wait for Caryatid to get to us. I want to see if I interpreted our painting right.

[Polar Vortex]

No polar I don't thi I can tell you guys apart

Which is probably funny since you're both the people I altguess wrong all the time when home.

Well, it's easy,

Petyr

Bear signs his posts.

[Polar Vortex]

I like VNB National Plan quite a lot. She is a bit too focused on Ahsoka which is a bit weird since she is lynch bait, but I see what she sees there as suspicious since it is lynchbait. Still, Ahsoka hasn't posted enough to get the type of strong opinion she got. Can you elaborate on how strong that particular read is? Also, why is asking stupid questions a sign of being scum? However, I liked her opinion of my slot. Thinking somebody is town for nitpicking you is something I see a lot more in town than in scum.

[Polar Vortex]

I'm a bit conflicted on Imperium. Tammy is great and looks really innocent(and I don't think I've seen her drunkpost in a game in a couple of years), but Nacho seemed a bit off. I hated the meta in this game but it seems like I'll do so now. He seemed a bit like how he was in my last game where early on he focused on somebody in a weird way(Snowstorm that game, Spiffeh in this one). Snowstorm sees it a bit differently so I'm not going to push on that too much. Plus, even if I had a mild scum read of the slot(which I don't since it's null), I wouldn't want to lynch a slot which will probably be an anchor for me this game in a sea of meta

~Bearbert(785 is also mine invalidanting Snowstorm's claim that I sign my posts)

[Polar Vortex]

As the game goes on I have a harder time seeing Spiffeh as scum. His wagon formed out of nothing on RVS and it is still our current largest wagon. That just makes no sense. I feel like it's just a snowball of bad wagon leads to bad reactions, bad reactions lead to "serious" arguments, which lead to more reaction, more arguing and so on.

I don't think if he was scum he'd still be the larges wagon and pretty much the only player being scrutinized, when there are people like Ashoka, Kmd, VNB, or even us, people with few posts, bad posts, easy targets for scum. The only thing that could explain scum not coming after them is that scum are fine with the current state of the game. Because if they weren't (if Spiffeh was scum), no way he'd be the top wagon, or the only one at least.

It worries me when I look at that wagon though, because I had a good first impression on Cam, I like Caryatid and Gingie and Senpai weren't priorities to me, but maybe they should be, because I still don't know what to make of Gingie and Senpai is still riding on a vote for "strong feelings" and hasn't really been posting lately.

[Polar Vortex]

Well luckily for you camn has been scumclaiming with every subsequent post so you don't have to feel good about her anymore!

How do you feel about the comparison I made between her play in a similar situation in one of her towngames and her play here?

I don't pay much attention to meta posts. On a first glance, I guess you're right, but I didn't play that game, I have no context, I don't know Camn, I don't know you... I can't use that.

[Polar Vortex]

Heartless, can you summarize to me why you're voting Maxwell? I saw you guys arguing about meta and a vague read you posted on them before voting them, but I don't really get it.

[Polar Vortex]

I mean, how do you feel about camn's posts ever since you "felt good" about her early on?

Honestly, I don't know.

[Polar Vortex]

I don't think if he was scum he'd still be the larges wagon and pretty much the only player being scrutinized, when there are people like Ashoka, Kmd, VNB, or even us, people with few posts, bad posts, easy targets for scum. The only thing that could explain scum not coming after them is that scum are fine with the current state of the game.

......or that some of those ppl you just listed ARE scum themselves.....?

why didn't that immediately occur to you?

Because they'd all have to be scum with Spiffeh. That would be a pretty large scum team...

[Polar Vortex]

Spiffeh's town lol. This push on him seems very forced. Definetly a lot of confirmation bias

~Bearbert

[Polar Vortex]

Forced how?

There's no reason to suspect him so having so many people doing it is forced

~Bearbert

[Polar Vortex]

Forced how?

There's no reason to suspect him so having so many people doing it is forced

~Bearbert

but.... you just said you weren't scumreading anyone from the wagon....

Citation needed

[Polar Vortex]

tell me, what exactly are you townreading from spiffeh?

Everything lol. It makes zero sense for scum him to go after Imperium like he did. His defense also looks extremly town. Sorry for not adhering to your circlejerk though

[Polar Vortex]

Yo Polar, what do you make of Spiff literally attacking and scumreading his entire wagon and never putting any focus anywhere else

Very town but slightly dumb

[Polar Vortex]

porque

Because I've never seen scum do that, but I've seen town do that a lot.

[Polar Vortex]

I don't follow that at all.

You can't follow that train of thought? Really? I can understand not agreeing with it but not understanding it is too

[redacted]

to exist, surely?

~ Please try to avoid ablism. I'm not going to be making this comment on every post because that would be beyond annoying for you guys but "dumb" and "lame" are always going to be redacted if I catch them; there's nothing bad about being unable to speak or unable to walk in some way so using terms that describe those conditions to characterize something as bad is offensive in the same way that using "gay" as "bad" is offensive. Thanks! <3 ~

[Polar Vortex]

BUT, to be fair...plenty of Townies ad-hom thier wagons to death, too.

A lot more often than scum do. I've never played with this Katsuki guy but he seeks like a weakass scum player. What gives you the impression Spiffeh is doing the same? Is he known to do that?

[Polar Vortex]

i cry inside anytime someone says "scum wouldn't do this," because I used to be that person.

Scum wouldn't try to get the claimed cop D1 lynched.
I could seriously go on and on about how every town game I've been fooled by going "scum wouldn't do this"

So instead of that just assume everything weird is scum and policy lynch everything? SO SMART

[Polar Vortex]

So I'm saying that I see town do x more than scum. That's the definition of a town tell. If every towntell is stupid like you say, how the fuck are you supposed to get a read? Taking random names out of a hat?
+ if your towntell are shit don't assume everybody also has shit towntells

[Polar Vortex]

Polar: Don't agree that town always attacks their wagon. We think Spiffeh is frustrated with the gamestate in general, we still don't think Spiffeh's scum. Also, saying that scum voting for Spiffeh would have to be scum with Spiffeh doesn't make sense (840 is very confusing.) We feel that his progression of anger towards his wagon developed naturally and makes sense from his pov even if we don't agree with the anger. (So basically we agree with you that he's town but not because town always does that)

camn: stop flirting with the mod what is this

We've also come to the conclusion we don't have much to say because we're not scumreading the current posters
currently scumreading maxwell, ahsoka, possibly mastina, possibly kmd

Bella is very impressed she worked out what the lines in our drawing and is cautiously townreading cary because of it (my posts are not scummy damnit)

Spoiler: It's like dream interpretation

looking at our picture, there were a lot of straight lines. I ws able to look at other pictures and infer that the more flowing, organic pictures were town reads: therefore all our lines meant she was worried about our slot. however, the colours and size of it made me think she was cautiously optimistic about us. Which she is! I feel weird town reading a drawing of a read because Interpretted it, but maybe tahat just means her thoughts are clear and consistent.

Where did I say that town always attack their wagon? That's ridiculous

[Polar Vortex]

Polar Vortex do you have any scum reads at the moment?

Both heads have different scumreads at the moment. We're working on them and will give reads together soonish. My better head has town reads on all of the Spiffeh wagon. I currently don't have reads on any of then, but the way the wagon is going I'm sure there should be at least one scum there. Probably not Ginngie since my interaction with her earlier on gave me a good impression
~Bear

[Polar Vortex]

As much as I agree, I also disagree. Hydras are a joining of personalities, but dissonance happens. Hydras are more a dual personality extension tha an alt. You have to work things out else there will bw no agreement. And with some hydras, like Heartless, it is obvious who is in the hydra and who is talking. With new or unknown hydras it is definitely better to have heads in the sig.

Why are we on about this though when it is completely NAI?

Oh, also, I know you, Heartless. Is this not as weird as Caryatid knowing you?

I really don't like that in the face of being very behind, this is the stuff Ahsoka chooses to respond to.

I can totally see a weak scum player see me blowing up and do the bare minimum to go unnoticed and let me bury my own grave.

Agree on that. Ahsoka would do exactly did if she had a partner push you hard

[Polar Vortex]

yo, nancy, dumb isn't a word you redact. Don't do that.

Please refer to the rules:

2 ~

Language use.

I will edit your posts to correct misgendering or to redact the use of slurs or any other offensive language without your permission.

~ Please try to avoid ableism. I'm not going to be making this comment on every post because that would be beyond annoying for you guys but "dumb" and "lame" are always going to be redacted if I catch them; there's nothing bad about being unable to speak or unable to walk in some way so using terms that describe those conditions to characterize something as bad is offensive in the same way that using "gay" as "bad" is offensive. Thanks! <3 ~

Dumb has more definitions. One of them is a synonim to stupid. I think it was pretty clear from context that there was no offense against people who are unable to speak. And it is different than using "gay" as "bad" since the dictionary definition of gay does not include that meaning

~ I don't really want to write an essay about ableism here because it's not helpful at all to the game but I think that talking about dictionary definitions isn't helpful here. Dumb is synonymous to stupid in current usage because ableism is entrenched in our society and I would prefer not to have it in my game. I understand that you personally aren't insinuating that people who can't speak are less intelligent or boring or bad or whatever when you use the word dumb but the origins of the usage are that and being aware of the words we use is important because they're the same words that are used to hurt people in other contexts and that hurt carries outside of that context. ~

[Polar Vortex]

Ah well, your game your rules. There are other synonims of stupid that I can use. Hope there is no problem with that?

[Polar Vortex]

Yo Polar, what do you make of Spiff literally attacking and scumreading his entire wagon and never putting any focus anywhere else

Focusing the people on his wagon is natural. Scum reading the entire wagon, not so much, but I can understand why he'd do it. I do hope he sorts those reads better as time passes, because they can't possibly all be scum. pedit: oh look, #920 happened.

Here's the difference.

My shit tells are great because they're unique to each player and every scenario and they rarely let me down.

You're is a generalization that someone could read off a wiki

This is a... mafia cultural difference. We mostly play with alts, so our tells are more generalized (we can't use individual tells if we don't know who the individuals playing with us are), it also explains our aversion to meta.

[Polar Vortex]

Polar: Don't agree that town always attacks their wagon. We think Spiffeh is frustrated with the gamestate in general, we still don't think Spiffeh's scum.

Also, saying that scum voting for Spiffeh would have to be scum with Spiffeh

doesn't make sense (840 is very confusing.) We feel that his progression of anger towards his wagon developed naturally and makes sense from his pov even if we don't agree with the anger. (So basically we agree with you that he's town but not because town always does that)

I think you're mixing it up with this post.

I don't think if he was scum he'd still be the larges wagon and pretty much the only player being scrutinized, when there are people like Ashoka, Kmd, VNB, or even us, people with few posts, bad posts, easy targets for scum. The only thing that could explain scum not coming after them is that scum are fine with the current state of the game.

......or that some of those ppl you just listed ARE scum themselves.....?

why didn't that immediately occur to you?

Because they'd all have to be scum with Spiffeh. That would be a pretty large scum team...

Heartless, implies that maybe the people I mentioned as other easy targets for scum (Ashoka, Kmd, you...) could be scum, which would explain why the focus was staying on Spiffeh and not going their way. And I say, that could only be true if they were all scum, because if any one of them is town, there's no reason for scum to let the focus stay on Spiffeh instead of forcing it onto a town player. It really wouldn't have to be an easy target, scum could target any town player to stir attentions away from Spiffeh. If they are doing it, they're not trying hard enough.

Q-Q-Q-Q-Quadruple-Post! Sorry.

[Polar Vortex]

Yo Ahsoka, you have 3 posts to convince me not to lynch you. Go go go
Yo Tammy, will you interact with my slot? You've said lots of vague things about us, but I can't really get a good read on you yet.
~Bearbert

[Polar Vortex]

Yo Ahsoka, you have 3 posts to convince me not to lynch you. Go go go
Yo Tammy, will you interact with my slot? You've said lots of vague things about us, but I can't really get a good read on you yet.
~Bearbert

Okay, well how about we don't count this one!

I'll be relevant tomorrow after a good sleep and I intend to make this a priority thread! I know you will understand me once I am here!!!

1/3. Last line sounds extremly fake btw so you've got to try harder

[Polar Vortex]

Spoiler:

i've got my own issues w camn that i'd like to talk to her about. will put together a post after work

ok so first circling back to this

camn dismisses me instead of acknowledging what I'm trying to say

Spiff- you haven't come at me from an honest place all game. Since before I even posted it was all camnisscumcamnisscum. Why should I bother engaging with YOU?

The idea that

I

am somehow tunnel-persecuting

you

is laughable.

your comeback to spiffeh accusing you of not engaging him and tunneling is to accuse him of doing it first and idk where that came from but it's not from what's gone on in this game?

I predict the scum will be camn, NoticeMeSenpai, and Prism

VOTE: camn

i have a secret scumread. you wanna guess who it is?

camn?

you cited all these posts as proof he's tunneling you but post 31+35 look like rvs screwing around to me and 136 seems more like randomly farting out a name than a serious attempt to paint you as scummy. is there some other context (a previous game) where something happened between you+spiffeh that carried over here or what?

next up, this lynch pool

I forgot what they were.

Here is my lynch-pool though. For today.

VNB National Plan
Polar Vortex
MaxwellPuckett
Spiffeh, obv.

ok.... i could see someone scumreading whichever one is the abrasive head of polar vortex. i disagree but whatever.

how vnb makes the list (let alone over ahsoka) is beyond me though. plz explain.

LAST the thing i asked before about kmd and why you're townreading him/his posts. MY scumread on him is softening because as he continues to post it looks to me like it's more and more possible he's just a cookie cutter and boring person all-around so i might have been scumreading something nai. i'm still not explicitly TOWNreading anything he's done so far so is there something in his meta / what do you see in kmd?

Both heads are abrasive though

[Polar Vortex]

Wanting to lynch people because you don't know them is such a garbage reason holy fuck. Like wtf is that style of play

[Polar Vortex]

And settle down- its not like I am raging for your lynch.
I just.. would go along with it

Don't really care that it's my slot. If it was another slot, it would be as stupid

[Polar Vortex]

Can you talk about your Maxwell read at all? Is it more townreading Max or more confidence in your scumreads elsewhere or something else?

It's a combination of factors, actually.

Maxwell is a nulltownread, in that there's not really much to go off of but I don't actually get a feeling that Maxwell's scum. Gut, essentially, tells me that Maxwell just isn't scum.

This is indeed bolstered by my confidence in my

actual

scumreads. I have three rather solid ones I have great confidence in (even if I suck at explaining them). One of them, Heartless, was on the wagon and not likely in a way which would be a bus. Which brings me to another part. When you wagon on players, sometimes you just get a ~feeling~ about the person you're wagoning, off of the circumstances behind the wagon. The circumstances behind the wagon on MaxwellPuckett suck. They don't feel towndriven at all; they don't feel like a lynch at scum at all. (The opposite of Spiffeh, which was 100% towndriven and felt like a lynch on scum.)

I realize there's nothing really tangible to talk about, but then that's not all too surprising when you've got a slot who has not contributed much, and yet would do so regardless of alignment. (Especially given that replace-out request.)

That makes sense that it would be a circumstantial/game state read, especially since Max was a counterwagon to Spiffeh. I'm hoping the replacement will help. Looks like we'll either get Leon, who should be legible, Cheetory, who is the awesome but I doubt I can read him, and Regfan, who I haven't played with.)

Regfan would be awsome as fuck. Relatively easy to read, but an excellent player

[Polar Vortex]

This head will be VL/A until the 23'rd. Might post but not a lot

[Polar Vortex]

So I was scum leaning Polar Vortex earlier and still do. There were a few posts that rubbed me the wrong way on a gut level that I couldn't really explain so I let it go for a little bit.

I asked them if they had any scum reads at one point because they seemed to be commenting about a lot of stuff without really going after anyone in particular, which isn't really all that bad on its own.

They responded saying that both heads had different scum reads and would post them together soon (which never happened btw).

Later, when people seem to be condensing on Ahsoka Tano, we get this:

Yo Ahsoka, you have 3 posts to convince me not to lynch you. Go go go
Yo Tammy, will you interact with my slot? You've said lots of vague things about us, but I can't really get a good read on you yet.
~Bearbert

There was some precedent here because they had expressed agreement with me about Ahsoka trying to fly under the radar while I buried myself, but it's more the way the read was presented than the read itself. For a slot who's been playing their scum reads so close to the vest I find it kind of out of character for them to approach Ahsoka in this manner.

I also think the "you have 3 posts to convince me" thing is a way to throw in support for a wagon without really committing to it, but this is something I'll probably explore depending on Ahsoka's flip.

Honestly writing this out I've become less convinced but it's still ~weird~ and "~weird~" is scummier than like 90% of the playerlist at the moment so I think this is worth questioning.

This head is suspicious of Ahsoka, the other one less so. I gave her 3 posts since she was close to lynch

[Polar Vortex]

Game starts now.

I have a lot of catch up and reading to do, but I'm feeling good after this flip. I had a feeling Ashoka was town, but it was more based on other people's posts than her own and I couldn't really find anything to take that read out of limbo. The confirmation that she's town strengthens some of my early suspicions, which I'll want to get to later.

[Polar Vortex]

Both heads are abrasive though

One clearly more so than the other...

1. There is one more person I am expecting an "oh! hi!" from.

Oh, hi?

Polar Vortex do you have any scum reads at the moment?

Both heads have different scumreads at the moment. We're working on them and will give reads together

soonish

. My better head has town reads on all of the Spiffeh wagon. I currently don't have reads on any of then, but the way the wagon is going I'm sure there should be at least one scum there. Probably not Ginngie since my interaction with her earlier on gave me a good impression
~Bear

I'm not sure which of you is V/LA but I'm guessing it's Snowstorm. Did he leave you with enough of his reads for you to get to this, Petyr?

Petyr is V/LA. Though, I was pretty much absent for these last few days. We didn't talk much.

[Polar Vortex]

Ahsoka Tano is terrible in the way I thought only Aristophanes could make me feel and I want to purge them from this earth.

At first this quote only bugged me because it was vague and used to back up a vote, but now, knowing Ashoka was Aristo, now I really need to know what you meant with it.

[Polar Vortex]

Ahsoka Tano is terrible in the way I thought only Aristophanes could make me feel and I want to purge them from this earth.

At first this quote only bugged me because it was vague and used to back up a vote, but now, knowing Ashoka was Aristo, now I really need to know what you meant with it.

If Ari flipped scum, then scumslip, however, this is just a freaky thing and an alt read I guess.

They were unknowingly comparing Aristo to himself, scum reading him and he flipped town. Something went wrong there.

[Polar Vortex]

So I'm back from the NASCAR race, but working 16 hour days five of the next seven days. I can't catch up right away but will put serious time into this game Thursday and should be able to do better after that. If anyone wants anything addressed, I'll be around off and on for the next two hours or so and will check forposts after this one.

Do you have reads?

[Polar Vortex]

They were unknowingly comparing Aristo to himself, scum reading him and he flipped town. Something went wrong there.

Is there something AI here?

It's the basis of their Ahsoka vote, of course it's AI. Did they have reasons to think Ahsoka's posts were the scum kind of terrible or was it just BS to justify a vote on a town player?

[Polar Vortex]

my mind is your avatar.

Are you saying that it was scummy to think the player was playing like Aristo and not town read the slot because it was Aristo?

No, what's scummy is voting someone because their posts are terrible without explaining why terrible = scum.

...That's hilarious. I forgot I said that. If you look at Aristo's signature though, it's a quote from the game we just played together where I was scumreading him from Day 1 (he was scum in it). Him acting almost the same as in that game made me scumread him harder actually and doubt that the general nice way he feels because he's a nice guy was related to reading him as town.

Link, please.

[Polar Vortex]

So I'm back from the NASCAR race, but working 16 hour days five of the next seven days. I can't catch up right away but will put serious time into this game Thursday and should be able to do better after that. If anyone wants anything addressed, I'll be around off and on for the next two hours or so and will check forposts after this one.

Do you have reads?

I do. My ISO should give you a pretty solid idea of them. If not, my top three picks for scum are Ginngie, Prism, and maxwell (now leon). Top three town are camn, spiff, and cary.

I really don't like your Prism scum read. Bear liked your Prism vote, but I didn't. It felt easy and fabricated. Bad arguments, and very subjective. And then it seems like you stick with that scum read just for the sake of it.

Any questions for a drunk Prism who presumably is more sloppy as scum or more genuine as town now's your chance

This feels manipulative. Like someone who is more in control than they are letting on and trying to get people to town read them.

This is kinda ridiculous. You're accusing him of being scum and pretending to be drunk (or drunker) to get town read. I don't think Prism's ISO is so devoid of content that you'd have to reach this low to back up your scum read.

As far as me being drunk the night of my birthday, sorry but I don't play it up and pretend to forget that a backspace key exists

like other people.

You're right-I was well in control; but it really doesn't matter how much I've had, it's a true statement. I wasn't playing up my drunkenness, only stating that it wasn't like my play was going to tighten up. It's an invitation to interact, not to townread me. Decide for yourself how control I was in then.

I don't know you aside from this game and the bolded is why it stood out. People WILL do that.

Then he answers your accusation and your reply is "ok, but people do that." There's no reflection from your part on whether or not Prism is that kind of person, nor does his answer seem to affect you in any way. You just stick to what you said. Prism's "drunk" post was manipulative because some people do that kind of thing. That's a terrible argument.

Yeah that was a pretty good post from kmd. I think you're offtrack on Ginngie, but this is my 3rd rodeo of hers so I'm used to it.

I actually don't like this. Without reasons why you like it, it seems like you either went "oh a lot of words" or "the guy who hasn't been here posted so it's good" and it comes off as trying to say what you think a general consensus would be rather than a genuine thought.

You even manage to scum read Prism for liking your post. Did you think it was so unlikely that your post would be liked (it happens sometimes)? Why didn't you ask him why he liked it if your problem was the lack of an explanation? Instead of fabricating reasons say how him liking your post makes him scum.

Can you explain the desire to lynch Spiffeh? I still see basically no real reason behind it. Closest I've seen is his lack of reads, but I don't see much reason to think there's this immediate, AI need for that.

This is where I am on the Spiff wagon. People act like it's the obv lynch and definitely a scum lynch, but I don't get why.

You also shared a common position with your scum read on the Spiffeh subject. How do you feel about that?

[Polar Vortex]

Ahsoka Tano is terrible in the way I thought only Aristophanes could make me feel and I want to purge them from this earth.

At first this quote only bugged me because it was vague and used to back up a vote, but now, knowing Ashoka was Aristo, now I really need to know what you meant with it.

PV: We're really not happy with the way you keep misrepping us about this. First of all this was not the basis of our vote or scumread, his posts in the thread were. We've clarified this a dozen times. Secondly as Ginngie said, Ahsoka actually turning out to be Aristo means literally nothing alignment indicative; there is no way I could have known that as town or scum. Thirdly it's not like I could have been lying about what I was saying because ITS IN ARISTO'S SIG it's right fricking there if you were actually looking for it.

And I'm not happy with the way you dismiss my questioning as misrepping and tunneling. The basis was "her posts are terrible"; "Terrible as only Aristo makes me feel" is a vague comparison which I have no context to; only clarified a few posts ago when you linked me to the specific game you thought Scum-Aristo was "terrible". It never even occurred to me to look into other players sigs to understand what your posts meant. No one is accusing you of knowing the alt; yes, it means nothing, if you thought she was as terrible as Aristo before knowing it was him, you'd think the same after the reveal.

[Polar Vortex]

Did you just admit knowing the identity meant nothing?

Because I see literally nothing in what you're pushing?

OMG, did I just.

I've been trying to understand where they were coming from with their Ashoka vote. I'm not pushing anything. They have more or less cleared that for me, I just have to take a look into the game they linked.

Moving on.

Vote: Kmd.

[Polar Vortex]

I still don't get any concern you had, it doesn't make sense to take issue with.

I didn't like their vote. I didn't think Ahsoka's bad posts were especially scummy. Thus my concern. If you still don't get it then Idk what more to tell you.

[Polar Vortex]

I tried to explain it to you four times when you asked in Day 1 and posted a more clarified reason his posts were bothering us here. I don't think it's unfair for me to say something is tunnelly when you've been asking me about this one post since I made it yet seem to forget I've stated my piece multiple times (Was I talking to the other head before?) Bella's a good influence on me being able to explain my thoughts instead of going postal like I would have by now.

It's extra frustrating because we appear to agree on other things besides whether we can stand each other!

You tried, but it didn't become clearer. The first answer you only reiterated how her posts were terrible. The second time you said she was bad scum lurking (I guess now I can see how you'd think that explains why her posts are terrible, but I think lurking would be one thing, terrible posts another), and you brought up people being caught up in Ginngie's self vote which confused me even more because I didn't (and still don't) understand how it related to Ashoka. I questioned you, you replied again, not giving me any answers. I gave up and decided to give it some time. This has been the same head, Bear signs.

Yeah, we do agree on some stuff. And I like your tone in general; and if I didn't think you were being genuine with your answers (even if not the ones I wanted), I'd be really tunneling you - this is just regular questioning/interacting to me.

[Polar Vortex]

So you didn't like their vote, yeah I get that, makes sense, but how does Ahoska being Ari tie into anything?

Ahsoka being Aristo means it was a direct comparison (even if they didn't know it was him). It inadvertently became a meta argument. Whereas before it was just a comparison between two different players. Comparisons are more subjective - Ahsoka's terrible posts reminded them of Aristo; ok - it could have been a feeling, it could have been a cheeky way to make her posts look even more terrible. Now, knowing it was Aristo meant I could confirm it.

[Polar Vortex]

that sounds a lot like an ends justify the means type of argument tbh

How?

[Polar Vortex]

also: VOTE: Polar Vortex, semantics.

What about semantics?

[Polar Vortex]

Game starts now.

I have a lot of catch up and reading to do, but I'm feeling good after this flip. I had a feeling Ashoka was town, but it was more based on other people's posts than her own and I couldn't really find anything to take that read out of limbo. The confirmation that she's town strengthens some of my early suspicions, which I'll want to get to later.

What early suspicions are you talking about?

From what I can tell you never had any.

Mostly talking about VNB and regretting not going after them and Kmd harder on day 1.

[Polar Vortex]

also: VOTE: Polar Vortex, semantics.

What about semantics?

I'm not really here because I'm busy with my girlfriend but I think you and VNB are arguing about words and

you're resisting the realisation that it's just words.

I don't agree that words are just words, but I don't think I'm resisting anything.

[Polar Vortex]

Mostly talking about VNB and regretting not going after them and Kmd harder on day 1.

Along these lines, what exactly motivated you to go back to KMD's earlier posts? Because in your "case" against him you cite things that happened earlier in the game, which isn't really bad, but I find it weird that he seemed to be nowhere on your radar in the previous day and the scum read seems to come out of thin air.

Kmd was one of our conflicting reads and they were V/LA, so I decided I'd just wait for them to get in the game. Maybe they'd town it up by then, but either way it didn't feel productive pursuing someone who wasn't caught up or even available to play.

I did mention I didn't like them and I would have developed that read further had anyone asked about it.

Also are you saying that you're also scum reading VNB after your exchange with them?

Nah, I'm feeling better about them actually. I skimmed Aristo's ISO in the game they linked and I can see how Ashoka's play reminded them of Aristo's. I also like their reaction - twice now I've interacted with them and given them opportunity to flip the tables and come after me, but the first time they thought we were tunnely town and now (hope I'm not speaking too soon) they still managed to stay cool, when I think if they were scum they could have easily plopped a vote on us without it looking too bad.

[Polar Vortex]

How do you feel about Max/Leon?

I kinda liked Max's tone and that's pretty much it. We should take a better look at him later as I don't think Bear had a read on him either.

[Polar Vortex]

Prod accepted

[Polar Vortex]

Leonshade is obviously not a bad lynch, their slot is kind of terrible upon reading. However, I agree with Snow's read on kmd so would much prefer a lynch there.
Prism's tiers look like he is partnered with Leon and wants to drag us as his partner.

~Bear

[Polar Vortex]

Like, are you actually sitting here saying that the team is me+Leon, and voting kmd? Me, Leon, and kmd?

Someone, anyone, toss me a fucking bone here, read this slot for the love of god.

Calm the fuck down please. No need to get this heated. I just said that your tiers looked like trying to frame me as a Leon partner. And they do. I'm not confident that any of my reads are strong enough to insist on a KMD-you-Leon team
~Bear

[Polar Vortex]

Come on Bear, what's terrible about this Leon slot that you're just now realizing for the first time, I'm dying to know

First time I read him. I believe my partner said that thing about the tone, but it pretty obviously wasn't a strong read so me changing that is in no way as suspicious as you paint it.
~Bear

[Polar Vortex]

I mean, Leon is getting lynched probably. It was definetly looking like that before I posted. If I was partnered with him, such a late attempt at bussing would be laughable. If I was scum and he town, I'd get much more by continuing to push the KMD wagon and then shout at you for being idiots to lynch Leon. What's the IV for scum me mentioning that? None whatsoever. But you're not interested in details like that, are you Prism?
~Bear

[Polar Vortex]

As the game goes on I have a harder time seeing Spiffeh as scum. His wagon formed out of nothing on RVS and it is still our current largest wagon. That just makes no sense. I feel like it's just a snowball of bad wagon leads to bad reactions, bad reactions lead to "serious" arguments, which lead to more reaction, more arguing and so on.

I don't think if he was scum he'd still be the larges wagon and pretty much the only player being scrutinized, when there are people like Ashoka, Kmd, VNB, or even us, people with few posts, bad posts, easy targets for scum. The only thing that could explain scum not coming after them is that scum are fine with the current state of the game. Because if they weren't (if Spiffeh was scum), no way he'd be the top wagon, or the only one at least.

I'm really skeptical of this defense here. Scum don't have a lot of influence in who gets voted outside of their partners; assuming there's 3 you have 2 out of the 12 other votes. That's not a lot to really wagon with unless they want to join Spiffeh and all 3 pile up at once. This post also really has the dual purpose of bringing others' attention to Ahsoka, kmd, VNB, etc. without directly pushing them.

It wasn't just the votes. The game was stale and Spiffeh was the only player being focused. His partners wouldn't have needed a bunch of votes or eloquent cases, a simple conversation about any other player could have shifted the focus. So either they were braindead or non-existent. I don't like underestimating scum, so I went with non-existent. Or I guess you could argue I'm one of them, but I don't think you are.

#848 is also a

major

missed opportunity to flesh out some thought processes on camn-what're their hangups? What are some thing that make them go "I don't know" and the arguments behind each side? I think the other point I have is bigger but this one bothers me too. Their read on Spiffeh on page 36 is all kinds of yuck, too.

Polar Vortex do you have any scum reads at the moment?

Both heads have different scumreads at the moment. We're working on them and will give reads together soonish. My better head has town reads on all of the Spiffeh wagon. I currently don't have reads on any of then, but the way the wagon is going I'm sure there should be at least one scum there. Probably not Ginngie since my interaction with her earlier on gave me a good impression
~Bear

This is a really bad post I think. I expect hydras to differ but this is a really big disconnect that seems purely to be in reaction to Heartless calling them out on it, rather than them proactively speaking and comparing notes. One head has all townreads and the other has

nothing

on any of those players would be unusual to me.

I don't see how not expanding on our IDK-read on Camn is a point against us; the read itself, or lack of it, I'd get, but not taking an opportunity to delve into it? How does that make us scum?

Yep, we're disconnected. I wish we could be proactively comparing notes, triumphantly catching scum and whatnot, but -this- is what we have.

[Polar Vortex]

Spiffeh got around to giving real reads on Heart and Imperium like I wanted in 1356 and 1357. Woo. Go Spiffeh.

This head is suspicious of Ahsoka, the other one less so. I gave her 3 posts since she was close to lynch

More just flat out disgusting posting from Polar. Why the difference? I'm especially interested in which head was less suspicious, why they were, and what this discussion over Ahsoka looked like.

This slot is scum. These interhydra interactions are bullshit.

Why do you think our disconnection is a sign of scum?

[Polar Vortex]

Do you have reads?

I'm actually curious how you could wonder this unless you ignored my posts and chose not to check my ISO before asking. I've been pretty clear on quite a few reads.

I wasn't the only one wondering. It's one thing to go over your posts and interpret them to figure out your reads, it's another to have you objectively state them.

It's the basis of their Ahsoka vote, of course it's AI. Did they have reasons to think Ahsoka's posts were the scum kind of terrible or was it just BS to justify a vote on a town player?

Which do you think it is?

The first.

This is kinda ridiculous. You're accusing him of being scum and pretending to be drunk (or drunker) to get town read. I don't think Prism's ISO is so devoid of content that you'd have to reach this low to back up your scum read.

That would be ridiculous if that's what I was saying. This discussion has already happened.

Yup and this is still a bad point.

Then he answers your accusation and your reply is "ok, but people do that." There's no reflection from your part on whether or not Prism is that kind of person, nor does his answer seem to affect you in any way. You just stick to what you said. Prism's "drunk" post was manipulative because some people do that kind of thing. That's a terrible argument.

When people you don't know use self meta, do you go "oh, ok, you must be town then"? Because I'm more likely to ignore it.

No, but I don't just ignore it. I take it into consideration, see if it adds up with their posts from the game we're playing. You stuck to your generalization that some people manipulate others with "drunk" posts, ignoring not just the self meta but the whole context of the post and player who posted it. I don't understand how you can read this game, read Prism's posts and think he would have done that. Maybe I'm being ingenuous, but I just don't see it.

You even manage to scum read Prism for liking your post. Did you think it was so unlikely that your post would be liked (it happens sometimes)? Why didn't you ask him why he liked it if your problem was the lack of an explanation? Instead of fabricating reasons to say how him liking your post makes him scum.

Again, this has been discussed. When people just see a lot of words and call it town, that will always stand out to me. And I actually did give Prism the option to be more specific which I don't remember happening.

It doesn't matter if it's been discussed, this is still fundamentally a bad point. It's a generalization, and one that makes no sense given the context. You're not in a position where scum would town read you for making a long post. What makes you think scum Prism do that?

[Polar Vortex]

Btw Polar is scum

Nope.

[Polar Vortex]

Btw Polar is scum

Nope.

Oh thanks.


Hey guys Polar is actually town.

they told me so, so it must be true.

Guess I'm just a fucking idiot right?

>_>

VOTE: Polar

I guess so.

[Polar Vortex]

Who even is scum to you

This is a really difficult question.

Kmd is my current bet. But I don't know who'll follow him in case I change my mind or he flips scum.

Ok, lets try this opportunity to situate my reads. I feel pretty good about Caryatid being town. I also feel good about Prism. Imperium and Senpai are town leans which would be stronger reads if they posted more. VNB is a tentative town read - I think I'd look into Senpai and Imperium before looking at them again.
That leaves you, Camn, Spiffeh and Leon.

Spiffeh was a town lean, because of the day 1 wagon and such. It made me not want to go there on day 1. But I worry that maybe I was wrong about it. I mean, he was wagoned and suspected by people, people whose abilities I respect. Then there hasn't really been anything in his play today that reassured my day one read. The only thing I liked was that he seems to be as lost as us where reads are concerned, but then so does most everyone else.

Leon, I don't remember seeing anything alarming from the slot, I remember liking his tone and thinking he was lynchbaity. I really have to look into it.

You and Camn. You feel similar. You both have a presence in the game and a strong voice but I don't feel like either of you is using it well. Your reads and votes feel weak and easy and I'd expect more from players who seem more in control of their reads and the game. Right now it does seem likely to me that at least one of you is scum.

So as you see, my reads are a cloudy mess, which I'm slowly trying to define.

[Polar Vortex]

Okay look, I'm gonna level with ya sister.

You can help me with Polar, or you're today's lynch.

Because to be honest, you don't even have a snowballs chance in hell to lynch me and its a vanity vote and we both know that.

So, what's it going to be?

I'm not switching at this time. I'm open to compromise later, but not right now.

Look at this. Is anybody actually reading this as inno?
~Bear

[Polar Vortex]

"You're going to die." "I'm going to vote my scumread." What's scummy about that?

kmd, I assure you that I completely believe your inability to play the game in the moment for 1 and a half game Days is scummy.
You didn't do anything like that in the game we played together. (although that was a year ago, jesus.)

The fact that kmd isn't even voting anybody at this point?

[Polar Vortex]

"You're going to die." "I'm going to vote my scumread." What's scummy about that?

kmd, I assure you that I completely believe your inability to play the game in the moment for 1 and a half game Days is scummy.
You didn't do anything like that in the game we played together. (although that was a year ago, jesus.)

The fact that kmd isn't even voting anybody at this point?

He's voting Gin?

In the last VC, it looks like he isn't voting...

[Polar Vortex]

I'm assuming that you're able to prove it tonight?
Does it work on factional kills? Is it the "double action variety" or the "strongman-maker" variety? If you use it on a limited shot role, does it expend multiple shots for said limited shot role or fizzle out or just duplicate it?

I may or may not be able to use it tonight. There should already be a player who knows that I've used it on them, assuming no roleblock shenanigans (and I don't see why I would've been roleblocked).

I only enhance a player's role, so it shouldn't work on the factional kill. My role PM is vague about what the enhancing actually is, I've assumed that it was of the double action variety (because I forgot that the role is usually called motivator, not enhancer) but I'll PM nancy to check. Can't answer your last question for the same reason, I'll ask that, as well.

The rest of my catch-up will have to wait, but long story short, I now think that Ginngie is town and Polar is scum.

VOTE: Polar Vortex

Not even convenient that you suddenly realized you scum read the wagon that is currently getting traction

[Polar Vortex]

There's still at least a third of the day left and this is my favorite part, don't lynch us.

[Polar Vortex]

Haha you so fun.

[Polar Vortex]

Most of the votes on us seem to be based on Bear's terrible posting. I can't really defend us from that, except to say that those posts come from someone who is disengaged and simply not giving this game the attention and time it needs to develop proper reads and make thoughtful posts.

Shut up Ginngie!

[Polar Vortex]

Polar Vortex

~

Prism

, camn, Leonshade, NoticeMeSenpai, Caryatid

Lets look at those votes.

Prism. The reasons behind his vote are bad. I don't think scum-bad, but I think his approach to us was tunnelly and lacked deeper thought, like motivation. I think his arguments are more about us playing badly, than us playing to fulfill a supposed scum win-con.

Camn. It's a shit vote. I want to know why she thinks we're scum.

Leon. I agree with Bear that his vote seems convenient, it came out of nowhere and landed on a growing wagon. He only explains it after Bear called it convenient, even using that to cement the vote. I think the explanation in #1785 sounds natural enough, but I don't really think it's alignment indicative. I actually think it's a little overplayed and lacking thought. The vote is all about one post, one thing, there's no mention of anything else. So yeah, it does seem convenient - the timing, the fact that it uses Ginngie's push as a crutch, and it being the only thing.

Senpai. It's a shit vote and I want to see what Mastina has to say.

Caryatid. I think it's a shit vote too, but she's still one of my strongest town reads.

[Polar Vortex]

someone who is disengaged and simply not giving this game the attention and time it needs to develop proper reads and make thoughtful posts.

Sounds exactly like what scum would feel like >_>

What, like Ahsoka did?

[Polar Vortex]

Bear actually prefers playing scum. And in this game, where scum don't need much effort to get townies lynched, he'd be doing great.

[Polar Vortex]

WIFOM

Imperium would confirm my meta that I've never been lynched as scum
~Bear(sorry, drunk so can't be bothered to do any proper posting. But Snow, we're getting lynched because of terrible votes. And they'd have found a way to lynch you without me so it's not completly my fault)

[Polar Vortex]

I guarantee none of you is a good enough player to catch scum me

[Polar Vortex]

WHY DO I BOTHER?

[Polar Vortex]

Sorry, Snow. My bad. But they are idiots for lynching us. But at least Leon's vote is obviously scum

[Polar Vortex]

I really am not sure if Gingie is the biggest moron I've ever play with or scum

[Polar Vortex]

Just stop posting.