Mini Normal 1931 | Endgame

[Flavor Leaf]

So I caught up and Paul stands out as scum to me a lot. Feels like he's just trying to sheep Rb, who's seeming to be stepping up as the town leader like role, and then he's just joking around everywhere. To be fair, we're page 6, but that's where I'm at right now.

VOTE: NotTheRealPaul

[Flavor Leaf]

There's a difference between optimal rb strategy and optimal town strategy...it's all clearly outlined on page 252412 of the ultimate mafia tactics book that only the super secret awesome people get. (I stole my copy)

I need more info on Perfect before I vote for him.

I'm also interested in Paul. He has yet to express a unique opinion, only spammed it up and agreed with others.

See, I'm indifferent on this post, because I don't like the statement on Perfect, but I like the statement on Paul. It's page 6. Why is Perfect an exception for needing more info and not anyone else, really?

[Flavor Leaf]

So I caught up and Paul stands out as scum to me a lot. Feels like he's just trying to sheep Rb, who's seeming to be stepping up as the town leader like role, and then he's just joking around everywhere. To be fair, we're page 6, but that's where I'm at right now.

VOTE: NotTheRealPaul

I scumread him every game for this and he turns out town

I'll keep that in mind. For now, I'm still interested in pressuring the slot.

[Flavor Leaf]

Because he made a post that I find very strange and I want more context. Also because I have a strong aversion to voting for someone just because someone else told me to.

Oh, then you and Rb are going to be interesting to watch.

[Flavor Leaf]

There's a difference between optimal rb strategy and optimal town strategy...it's all clearly outlined on page 252412 of the ultimate mafia tactics book that only the super secret awesome people get. (I stole my copy)

I need more info on Perfect before I vote for him.

I'm also interested in Paul. He has yet to express a unique opinion, only spammed it up and agreed with others.

See, I'm indifferent on this post, because I don't like the statement on Perfect, but I like the statement on Paul. It's page 6. Why is Perfect an exception for needing more info and not anyone else, really?

oh no

flavor leaf is scum

yeah, you and I are buddies. Don't need to be shouting it out to the thread.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: flavor leaf

all aboard the flavor train

I'm game.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

[Flavor Leaf]

We hard busing to get you town cred? Shall I go on you or keep on myself?

[Flavor Leaf]

bye flavor leaf

bye

[Flavor Leaf]

everyone sheep me and be rewarded with euphoric feeling of day1 scum flip

am I scum with TB or is that read gone?

[Flavor Leaf]

please don't struggle

it will just make your death less enjoyable

I don't ever struggle.

[Flavor Leaf]

Just take me into this euphoric feeling you spoke of.

[Flavor Leaf]

So I liked Wave's comment on Dunker being fine and the comments he made on the Ausuka.

UnaBomba's probably scum. Her posts are awkward as hell.

[Flavor Leaf]

Liked what he had to say on me? All he said about me is he's okay lynching me? Lol.

And it's page 8. Everyone here is forcing shit.

[Flavor Leaf]

Unvote

Forgot about this game. Oops.

Eddie cane is likely town. I feel like he's the only reason I wasn't lynched, and I feel like it didn't make sense as a scum move.

rb's probably town. He seems to have this test everything and everywhere, and then uses interactions within those to scumhunt. He changes his mind a good amount when new stuff comes up, which I see as generally town like or incredibly bold scum, which I feel like he'd be a strong enough player to make bold choices as scum without having them be actually dangerous. Does that make sense?

I actually like Wavemode...so because of that I actually don't like Ausuka very much. This most recent thing of Wavemode calling her newb scum kind of made me feel like she was scum who doesn't think she is newbscum. I'm not saying she is newbscum or anything, but that's what I feel that interaction came out to be like, if that makes sense.

[Flavor Leaf]

That post pertains to me a lot it seems so I guess I'll dissect and comment.

Rb starts (138) it by declaring FL to be scum. However, he declared like four other people to be scum within the first few pages, so I'm not sure why this push gained more traction?

Because I fucked around with Rb.

FL then votes for himself (140). Uh, why exactly? It's anti-town to vote for yourself. I know it's a thing that people do, but I never really understood why. You were on your own wagon when it got to L-1 ffs. If you're scum, thanks for helping us almost-lynch you? And if you're town, what the heck are you doing being the second vote on your own L-1 wagon? I don't really see any motivation for him doing this as either alignment. And I just checked the latest vote count . . . and he's still voting for himself. It looks like he hasn't checked the thread since then, tbh. Please unvote. And your thoughts on your wagon would be appreciated.

Because I was fucking around with Rb. I've unvoted in my last post. Yeah, my wagon came out of nowhere and dissipated just as fast, so I HIGHLY doubt there isn't scum on it. The first three on the wagon I'd probably fight for as town.

I dislike Thor's vote (182). He says he wants to lynch FL in order to give us stuff to analyze. It seems like he's willing to vote FL regardless of his alignment in order to generate those reactions. Why not vote for someone you think is actually scummy instead of voting for the sake of having a speedlynch?

Ausuka's vote (184). Seems like she's voting here because there happens to be a wagon there. She did say she had planned to vote earlier (between Eddie and Thor), though, and I agree that the self-vote was awkward and that FL's major contributions (130, 131, 151) are kinda flat.

On Thor, I dislike early games, so I kind of understand that. That being said, it's NAI for me. Thor's not a town read.

On the Ausuka comment, why is the self vote awkward? I obviously wasn't in the game for a bit, so me being near lynch while self voting is moot. I was fucking around because it was still early game and I didn't have really any solidified reads. Plus, I believe it was my entrance into this game, which was pseudo still in the RVS stage, so see it more in that sense of me playing around with Rb.

And yeah, Unabombh's probably scum with her flip flop.

Eddie fake-hammers via a revote (191), and then declares FL to be probably town (210), and then switches his vote to . . . himself (221)). ??? I know he self-votes, so I'm not reading too much into that. What I'm confused with here is why Eddie suddenly declared FL to be town despite voting (and fake-hammering via revote) him earlier, especially when FL didn't interact with anyone between Eddie's original vote on FL and Eddie's fake-hammer and Eddie's self-vote.

I'm pretty sure you answered this yourself earlier in your post. Reaction testing, and my wagon speed painted me as town likely to him. He did it off of other's interactions, so I'm a little put off by the comment of you being confused why it happened. Most of the people on my wagon moved off, so it's not even like Eddie is the only one who thought similar.

Wavemode declares FL to be a mislynch (229). Um, why are you so sure here? This, in conjunction with 238 kinda make it seem like you know he's town? Why exactly do you think FL is so useful here? FL is kinda null to me. He made a couple observations (130, 131, 151) and self-voted, which is at best anti-town, especially since he was on his own L-1 wagon. Since it doesn't look like he's actually checked the thread since then, being on his own wagon is NAI to me atm. However, his comments were relatively shallow and would be easy for scum to fake. I haven't seen enough from him to actually justify lynching him, but I don't see anything here that screams town to me either.

Pretty much the same thing I said about Eddie here. Maybe I'm being white knighted by one, or both, of them, but if I am, there WK is working. Although, I will admit, Wave does seem like he could be potentially white knighting me, but I understand his side of Ausuka vs Wave more than I do Ausuka's. And I also have a bias towards the pokemon avatar initially, so that's saying something.

rb moves to Sunlit Diamond, and a bunch of people follow him. Again. I'm kinda surprised that so many people are following him tbh. He throws out reads with little reasoning or explanation, and he seems to have a bunch of followers with every new vote he makes. I need to go through this later to see if there's any interesting patterns here; kinda seems like scum might be exploiting his pushes with how quickly these wagons seem to be building.

Scum are likely to be following him, because they probably feel like they can't lynch him ever, so it probably is just easier to go along when he's pushing town.

[Flavor Leaf]

why do u post so much when im sleeping???!

I really dont understand eddie/rb's reasoning or lack there of for a thor lynch. To be fair I skimmed through a lot of it, but I found myself agreeing with thor a lot.

I also really liked wavemode's stuff so my lynchpool has extended to include the vulpix.

Thats really all i remember from skimming through it. Someone posted 2 walls that I just ignored (sorry not a wall fan). I see skitters back with her usual walls as well *sigh*.

I feel like Rb is a tone reader, and dissects through interactions, as I explained in one of my earlier posts. I think him scum reading Thor makes a lot of sense, and most of the things thor has said have been coming off as NAI to me, so I'm interested in what exactly it is that you agree with Thor a lot.

Cool. I have basically the same outlook with Wave/Ausuka.

[Flavor Leaf]

When you ISO me more...I have 17 posts as of this post. Why did you unvote me, and not vote one of your scum reads if you feel pretty good about your scum reads?

Also, one of your scum couples are two of your highest town reads?

[Flavor Leaf]

And yeah, Unabombh's probably scum with her flip flop.

Firstly, I'm still a dude.
Secondly, where did I flip flop?

I always try not to flip flop, because I like to be decisive and straight-forward with my actions.

If you are referring to my "want to vote FL but won't" -> *votes FL*, I explained it just above on 504.

Yeah, fair enough. I actually tend to think scum uses the decisive/straight forward with in their actions more than town. They always make themselves have a reason for moving over unless they're the troll scum type.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why did you unvote me, and not vote one of your scum reads if you feel pretty good about your scum reads?

Also, one of your scum couples are two of your highest town reads?

Ech? Did you read what I wrote?
I do not scumread wavemode/thor, but if Ausuka/Sunlit should flip town, the table would turn around.

Currently I feel good about scumreading Ausuka/Sunlit, but I could be mistaken.
And in the event I am, I think it logically follows (with how I see the situation), that wavemode should be suspected beyond reads.

Okay, just checking your logic behind it.

[Flavor Leaf]

well, damn. I used the wrong kind of "their" in my dissection post. Kill me.

[Flavor Leaf]

or rb.

Interested in what brought you to that.

[Flavor Leaf]

So you don't think it could be a TvT situation?

[Flavor Leaf]

prodge. Real life hit me and my phone broke, so I can't mobile post, which was most of my posting. New phone should be here Monday, but I'll try and get on when I can

[Flavor Leaf]

Time to dissect the Flavor of the posts I'm catching up on. Hopefully we get some pretty Leafy stuff.

@FL what I liked about Thor's posts was the blatant frustration at eddie/rb's case/lack there of. Im not familiar with thor's scum/town meta but I think getting over emotional like that is worse for scum. Like scum would just dismantle the case logically while a townie would get angry cuz it was stupid. Like thor reads to me as an angry town but I feel like scum!thor would have torn through any case on him logically, and very calmly.

I cant really point to a specific post because like I said (or I think I said) I mostly skimmed it but I found myself on thor's side.

pedit: why cant rb be scum if thor is town?

and didnt someone say this but with eddie/rb switched?

I mean, AtE (Appealing to Emotion) is a thing and sometimes comes off as better than dismantling the case logically for that very reason. Scum do that, so you don't necessarily want to do what scum does. But that's just WIFOM coming out, so I guess it's an argument that can be proven both ways. I personally disagree on the scum!Thor tearing through it logically, especially considering you states there was a lack of case. So this is a little suspicious to me. Definitely not leafy.

SD looks like scum right now. the explanations she gives are stretchy and overcomplicated.

Talk to me about this. Seems like you wanted to switch from your Wave pushing because you knew you were going to lose that. Not leafy at all.

I'm not gonna do a wall of reasoning because it is quite similar to a lot of other reasons already brought up and it would be pointless
not seeing this whole Thor scum thing either, agree that he just seems like angry town
I like rb, Eddie and wave mode for town
Still on the fence about Una and Sunlit but leantown.
By process of elimination that leaves skitter, ThinkBig/Perfect Fifth, Not The Real Paul and Dunker. Not saying they're scum but I just haven't any real reads on them.

side note: sorry for the inactivity guys, should change from today onwards.
I've been mostly skimming for the last few days so if anyone has anything specific they want me to direct my thoughts towards, hit me up, otherwise I'll be just here doing a full read through

Considering they replaced soon after, (haven't read if there was a reason just yet, but assuming lack of activity), then I definitely see this as a genuine catch up post attempt due to not keeping up. Only thing a little weird is the "mostly skimming for the last few days", and didn't post, but other than that one little thing, I see this as pretty leafy.

I also like Skitter for town now also, which makes me feel less bad about Ausuka, frankly.
I also like Flavor better now.
Still fine with Sunlit lynch.
Would also do Ciara or ThinkBig in a hot second.

If Sunlit ended up being town, this post to me seems reachy. I have put my thoughts out that I'm not town reading Thor by any means, but I wasn't directly scum reading him either., and it kind of looks like he wanted to test the waters with a potential buddying up to me here. And I don't like the Ciara thing considering the lack of activity from the slot at this point and the small catch up post right before it. Definitely not leafy. I'll watch Thor more closely from now on. He could be town in desperation mode, I guess.

Skitter's 565
I don't know what I feel about this. Kind of feels like scum overcompensating with questions. I dissected one of his bigger posts in my 501 earlier, and I can't tell what I think of Skitter. Does anyone have any experience with Skitter that can tell me if this seems like normal behavior for town Skitter? I like to meta dive, so @Skitter, can you link me some of your games?

MM4's post

flavour leaf: 496 is horrible and i dislike it greatly. i said i was an alt repeatedly so trying to frame me as newbscum without wavemode!confbias feels kinda sketchy although that isn't that scummy- what is more scummy is that he says "I actually like Wavemode...so because of that I actually don't like Ausuka very much." which is like the laziest attitude ever and makes no sense.

Lol, so the entirety of this read on me is fabricated. Here's why. One: I liked Wavemode's posting, so I don't see the cases you were making on Wave as legitimate reasons. That's not a lazy read. I am not a lazy player. Sure, I forget to check up on games sometimes, but that isn't lazy. When I am here, I will interact and actually scum hunt.

I actually like Wavemode...so because of that I actually don't like Ausuka very much. This most recent thing of Wavemode calling her newb scum kind of made me feel like she was scum who doesn't think she is newbscum.

I'm not saying she is newbscum or anything, but that's what I feel that interaction came out to be like, if that makes sense.

the bold infers that I flat out said that I didn't think you were newbscum. And I guess I didn't pay too much attention to you being saying you were an alt. Must have glossed over it, because I thought you said you weren't an alt. Oops. But yeah, this is a fabricated read you created and just so happened to put near the bottom, hidden away, so you could prove later you were leaning there.

Also, I'm really disliking Mario buddying up with Thor. That might make me want to not have Thor lynched for the day.

@Rb - You've been pushing the Thor/Ausuka-Mario thing, and I saw you say there was a situation where Ausuka could be town and Thor could still be scum. Do you think they'd be playing the way they were if they were both scum? And what makes you think that Thor would be scum over MM4?

Also, Rb's scum caught for the wrong reasons is pretty damn leafy to me, and kind of proves that the frustration that Paul talked about earlier could actually be genuine. Just genuinely...scum.

K, the Thor/Eddie thing is beginning to get annoying. Thor is still town, despite the lovely language and imagery he's been using. Eddie has become ???? cuz I can't figure out what he's doing. I dunno if he's just stubbornly sticking with a read despite being shown multiple times that he's misread Thor's posts because he doesn't want to back down, or if he's sticking to his guns because he thinks if he's persistent enough he'll be able to push through a mislynch, or if he's doing it for some other inscrutable reason that I just cannot fathom.

I really can't tell what's going on with him. The fact that he's ignoring my questions isn't exactly inspiring confidence in him atm, and is also making it hard for me to figure out what his intentions are.

"Eddie has become ????" so you think Thor/Eddie/Rb are TvTnT? Okay, Skitter might be lowkey scum. I really need someone to help me out with this slot.

Edited to remove nested spoilers. Please PM me if formatting is off.
-Penguin

[Flavor Leaf]

oh, guys. I broke it...oops. I have more coming.

[Flavor Leaf]

Wavemode vs Rb: I'm actually going to agree with Rb on this side. We have had 26 pages of a good amount of content. People should be more solidified than they are, or at least have some kind of read on the other players, even if you have no clue if they are town or scum.

Most of the remainder of stuff I have to catch up on is Thor/Rb talking back and forth or Mulch's catch up party. I'm not going to dissect that. We can refer back if we need to.

[Flavor Leaf]

is the F in leaf scummy for you or something. Mulch?

[Flavor Leaf]

@Mulch - I feel you took the majority of my reads.

Although I don't care for lynching Wave or TB today. TB seems to get mislynched often from what I've seen.

[Flavor Leaf]

I definitely want to lynch in Mario/Thor, though. I think Thor has a more likely chance of flipping town than Mario. I'm debating if I want to have RB/Thor/Eddie stuff come up again tomorrow, though.

I'd settle for Paul/Skitter.

[Flavor Leaf]

do you think Mario slot is scum? I scum read ausuka but Mario posting seems fine.

Really? I actually scum read mario more than I scum read Ausuka.

Also, you guys are going to make it hard for me to keep up.

[Flavor Leaf]

Im a little wary of skitters rn as she isnt as aggressive as her town game normally is but its also only page 8. The thing is, her town and scum games are annoyingly similar except for how aggressive she is.

I don't like this part

It's day 1. we have the whole game ahead of us. We'll get to her. I want to meta dive her, but I guess it won't matter much if you think they are very similar.

[Flavor Leaf]

also, realized I wasn't voting.

VOTE: Mario

[Flavor Leaf]

Mulch skitters kinda stole my post again. Two newbies together and Ive seen both skitters town and scum games. She asks a lot of questions, but her town game is generally more aggressive. Im really wary of skitters' scum game, but I think I can tell the difference rn. I might be a bit overconfident though. Rn Ive got a scumlean on her because she isnt super aggressive but not quite enough to vote her because she has been quite inactive this game.

this implies the exact opposite of what mulch said her scum game was, I feel.

interesting.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hey, guys. I'm here. If SD was a vig shot, then TB is likely town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Catching up.

[Flavor Leaf]

@Frog - Where was I "unusually concerned" about my wagon dissipating. I don't think this is true. Curious as to why that's what came across to you.

@Rb - how did both Paul and Una go from you wanting them lynched to one of the few people in your town bloc? Haha. I'm not seeing it with either of them. I actually think Una's pretty scummy, granted Eddie's one of my stronger town reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hey, guys. I'm here. If SD was a vig shot, then TB is likely town.

I not follow. Explain dis

No. don't talk about it.

[Flavor Leaf]

wait do u sr eddie for not giving reasons? and if yes do u sr rb?

I think one of them sort of has to be.
I don't know why people would need to buddy up, or be ok with someone buddying up on them if they are both town.

Don't know.

So you think that either one of Rb or EC have to be scum? What happens if Thor is scum? Do you think one of them was hard bussing? Also, what is your thoughts on Thor's Dunker vote?

[Flavor Leaf]

@Rb - how did both Paul and Una go from you wanting them lynched to one of the few people in your town bloc? Haha. I'm not seeing it with either of them. I actually think Una's pretty scummy, granted Eddie's one of my stronger town reads.

u gonna read or nah?

Like, you said the reasoning sorta, but you didn't explain why.

You basically could say the exact same thing about anyone. I didn't see Una's postings as town, and I've stated that.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's like if I went...

I think RB is town because of his posts.

K, what about the posts?

I think Rb is scum because of his posts.

K, what about the posts?

Literally can do the same thing for making a case either direction. This being said, I think your posts are coming from a town perspective due to the way you have been pushing things, and changing your direction makes me feel like you are trying to legitimately sort.

[Flavor Leaf]

I didn't like her posts on EC, and I didn't like her posts on Thor. They come off as incredibly fabricated to me and they look like she's trying to muster up reads to make it look like she has reads, and come off townie.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not really sure what you are referring to exactly with the thing she wouldn't be doing as newb scum?

It's the thought process behind it and the posts themselves.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm wondering if I'm just missing something with it. Because her push on Eddie to me doesn't seem real. Like any of it to me, and her Thor read just seems like a WK attempt that you guys will disregard and go "oh, you're new, you just don't see it."

[Flavor Leaf]

im guessing you think its skitter but im not seeing it

Huoh. And to rb saying I'm wasting time, its because I dont trust my reads/gut much, Im still a newb to the game.
Guess I'll bit then.

"EASY" = EC = Eddie Cane.

I got a very very strong gut feel like he is just an ass-kisser. Scum who isn't gamesolving too much to be "obv. town" as to avoid automatic NKs, but also not lynched because he has been agreeing so far.
I got even more excited when rb just asked why his posting lacked continuity, but maybe rb didn't think of it to be too bad.
Because my initial scum-pings in my mind were "Eddie trying to pocket rb" and "Sunlit pocketing Ausuka".

This might not make him automatically Mafia, but I was thinking more along the lines of potential SK or..whatever is normal not-town?

it just feels like she's fishing for your approval and to have you potentially push things for her. And the line about SK seems like a cop out to commit.

[Flavor Leaf]

it comes off to me like she's SK or PR hunting, I guess. I don't know how to word it.

[Flavor Leaf]

like maybe scum have a role cop or something and they checked Eddie? Something just bites me the wrong way.

[Flavor Leaf]

I mean, pocketing is a natural feeling. Don't need to know what it is to do it. If you are scum, and the loudest player in the game town reads you, that feels good, and you want to make sure they keep making you feel good. It's like sex.

[Flavor Leaf]

If wave is scum, he pocketed me pretty nicely with that WK'ing of his.

[Flavor Leaf]

eddie is trying to be friendly? whaaaaaat? felt like he was just kinda fucking around (no offense eddie).

rb ur supposed to bus me later in the day

i think this post is scum
VOTE: paul
paul doesn't feel like town!paul but im probably just being paranoid

if you think you're probably being paranoid, that lends itself towards you think you are more likely paranoid. This doesn't make sense to me why you'd vote there if you think it is more likely that you are just paranoid.

[Flavor Leaf]

Catching up tonight. Been a bit busy.

[Flavor Leaf]

If wave is scum, he pocketed me pretty nicely with that WK'ing of his.

did i do the same? what's your wave read?

I don't think he's scum. I'll even push some stuff from today to think he's not scum. His post here and the fact he did it really early in the day comes off as town to me. I don't think he'd bring it up so early and not yet under pressure if he was scum. He also lowkey protected me in Day 1 when my wagon was forming, and I don't feel he had to. I also agreed with his MM read of not being as obv town as everyone though. Like I said before, he could be WK'ing me, but if he is, then he's done a decent job with it because I don't think he's scum. There doesn't seem much a point to try and do that to me, though, since I'm really not a huge presence in this game. I'm trying to be! I feel like I do a good amount when I do show up!


To Skitter's post here, about Thor/Wave/Frog stuff...

You said you have no idea why Thor would ever kill SD, well, in general, that's a reason why he would do it, as has been explained in this game already. Wave used a similar thing as a defense, and I think Wave's seemed genuine. I don't have a strong read on Thor either way. I can see him flipping either way, so I'm trying to POE it out, and find scum elsewhere. I think a scum flip somewhere would make me feel more confident in reading Thor. Also, as I said before...Frog is likely town.

So you went and made this post in response to Eddie because you only agreed with one of his reads basically?


Una's post on Eddie

I'm scum reading Una. This looks like scum tunneling onto a townie who is pushing incorrect things/coming off as kind of trolly, if that makes sense. Scum typically like to abuse town's faults, and seem to get frustrated if people follow them. I really don't see how any of this post is actually a case, and is all implied that Eddie is 100% scum. In this post even, she says "This does not automatically make you Mafia is what I said, don't be ridiculous", yet everything in her post implies that she is pushing that as the case, so the agenda doesn't line up.

To her other posts near that about Eddie, kind of the same thing I just said, really.

wait do u sr eddie for not giving reasons? and if yes do u sr rb?

I think one of them sort of has to be.
I don't know why people would need to buddy up, or be ok with someone buddying up on them if they are both town.

Don't know.

So you think that either one of Rb or EC have to be scum? What happens if Thor is scum? Do you think one of them was hard bussing? Also, what is your thoughts on Thor's Dunker vote?

Huh, this is a most interesting question. I thought there was no possible scenario where Thor gets wagoned -> flips scum ->rb/eddie is scum.

But after reading how that wagon was built, I can see rb or eddie either being confident enough to "hard-buss" their partner.
It could have been testing the waters at first and some easy distancing, but once a wagon gets traction, a good player doesn't pull the brakes, they know it would only implicate them.
Remember that scum can day chat, so I assume coordinating something like that isn't as hard as it would be without.

If Thor is scum, it changes nothing.
In a scenario where one of eddie/rb is scum and the other town, one has a good scumread, and the other is bussing/after towncred.

This looks like setting up multiple lynch candidates, and then possible soft busing a partner, especially if RB/Eddie both are town.

I can see that. rb ur pretty fucking scary

Also, Paul's buttering up a lot to Rb with posts like these and one he did earlier about "no possibility, and if there is, oh well" mentality. I can see it coming from unconfident town trusting an experienced player, though.

FoS: Paul

One weird thing we have going in this game that I just realized from Wave's reads list is Eddie has the "unless FL is pocketing me" mentality, I have that for Wave, and Wave has it for Una. Quite a chain there. And Eddie is scum reading Wave, I'm scum reading Una, and Wave/Una are going for Eddie. So this is something I'm going to look more into.

I don't like RB's post stating town should be embarrassed if MM4 is scum, because if that ends up being the case, then MM4 would just be warlocking Rb this game, which isn't a bad strategy. Get in town RB's good favor, become a confidante like role, can likely steamroll a few days at least.


Una/Paul are who I'm leaning scum on at this point.

VOTE: Una

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm really confused as to why Una/Paul were both in Rb's town pool.

[Flavor Leaf]

You all seem to constantly be here, but when I show up, nobody's here. -.-

[Flavor Leaf]

Why don't you get yourself and Una?

[Flavor Leaf]

una i dont get

rb tred me off me asking him to tell him something pistgame

like it wasnt really game related i had just made a comment about how i wanted to understand his thought process post game and he latched onto it

How do you read Una?

[Flavor Leaf]

Also this is by far feeling like the worst game I've ever played as town, so yeah Thor if you're town I do think you've played terrible but so have I. I'm legit sorry to the entire town right now because no matter what I do in this game I feel totally lost, which is not at all what I'm used to.

Sigh.

I feel like this is generally a sign of mafia controlling you, but I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's only Day 2 and we don't have a scum flip. For all we know, you could be 100% right on everything.

I'll vote for Una, Thor, or GR today, I guess. Trusting Eddie on Paul like he asked of me for now.

People I won't lynch:

Eddie, Frog, Wave, Rb.

[Flavor Leaf]

Rb, you here still?

[Flavor Leaf]

Why not frog?

Read my ISO, and then let's talk about something else.

[Flavor Leaf]

wavemode (3): Eddie Cane, Dunkerdoodles, NotTheRealPaul

Why is this the leading wagon?

It's a little weird for me, because Eddie's my strongest town read, and he told me to trust him with Paul...

Dunker could go either way for me, but I personally am not interested in pushing him today.

[Flavor Leaf]

there's like barely anything in your iso about frog, and you don't even interact with him

there's just one statement where you say you think frog is town

so again: why not frog?

maybe look for the predecessor.

[Flavor Leaf]

Until I get more information, I'm going to want to keep Frog alive.

[Flavor Leaf]

Man, Rb, how obvious do I have to make it?

[Flavor Leaf]

Why would I push Dunker today and have the chance of being incorrect when I can wait until I can be more certain of what he is...? If Dunker ends up being a mislynch, we essentially go back to where we are today. I don't feel that's unreasonable to want to wait to sort Dunker out. Besides any directly incriminating evidence, there are a ton of better options for the day.

[Flavor Leaf]

Mario's vote on me is basically a scum claim, tbh. Blatant setup to rolefish.

[Flavor Leaf]

And @Thor - I do have a read on Dunker. It's just not a strong scum read or town read either way and I have complete faith that dunker will become obv town or obv scum on a later day. What doesn't make sense about this and why waste a fucking lynch on someone who will eventually become obvious with their alignment?

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Mario

His last post is pushing a ridiculous amount of scum agenda, and directly chainsaw defends Una. On top of how I was just conversing with rb, Mario is essentially scum claiming.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have decided!

VOTE: rb

can we lynch this please
VOTE: game replacement

What scum would push RB in this situation and absolutely not give anything?

Dunker, I've been pseudo defending you today, so if you're town, you gotta help me out. Town it up a little, please. I truly don't think you are an optimal lynch for the day, but they're going to turn and mislynch me because I found their precious Mario.

Also, Mario's been warlocking Rb most likely this game. (Pocketing an aggressive player, and have them do a lot of the work for you.)

[Flavor Leaf]

If you guys noticed, I previously had scum read Mario pretty hard, and then I moved away from that because I thought he could be a Town PR, but his chainsaw rolefishing post kind of made me realize that's not at all what was happening.

[Flavor Leaf]

i really do think skitter was scum tho
i have to reread atleast this day, i think i've been missing some things.

I forgot he was the skitter slot. Fair enough.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am starting to actually see a Mario, Thor, Una potential team by where all their pushes are going. They are trying to stay distant from each other, yet all their pushes push the same agenda without incriminating the others directly. Mario takes RB's side with Thor, but obviously something is keeping Thor from being lynched. Thor is setting a Dunker/Flavor mislynch chain up, which wouldn't give much information, while Una tunnels on Eddie, a player who was pushing Thor with Rb, but MM4 already has RB. They're controlling the whole game. It's why we're in this standstill.

[Flavor Leaf]

How do you know that Dunker is a mislynch?

That was speaking in hypotheticals from seeing the team of those 3 being a thing, and Dunker would be a mislynch in that case. I've stated my thoughts on Dunker already.

Also, if you think I'm really good or really bad, doesn't that imply you think/know I'm town? How does the "I could lynch it" come into play?

[Flavor Leaf]

@FL - I'm the one who halted the Thor wagon

@Vedith if ur town im actually done

Fair enough. I'll look into tonight when I'm at my pc. I mainly mobile post.

[Flavor Leaf]

But yeah, goes back to my warlocking thing, RB. MM's got you as his powerful minion doing the work for him.

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay, I get that. We just happen to be directly on opposite sides. I'm sure we're both wrong in some form or another. Typically scum are on both sides.

What am I tinfoiling, btw? Not entirely sure what that means, actually.

[Flavor Leaf]

Tbh i really really doubt that since ive looked @ the game with that mindset - nowhere does he suck up to me or anything, he just plays the game in a way that looks really town to me, and then I gave him a hard TR and we started working together

You wouldn't fall for it if he sucked up to you, though. I'm assuming you two have experience with each other, so...

Paul is the one sucking up to you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Spoiler:

MM4 the problem with her weirdness is that i don't see how it's 'scum' it's just weirdness

dont u reckon?

i feel like it's less being weird and more making things up as she goes along
i mean talking to me like i'm town and reasoning it with "oh uh i don't want to scumread me because you're scum" is pretty obviously making things up as she goes along to me \o/
and i don't actually see her trying to solve the game either?

i mean i think there's probably an agenda there in which she really wants to avoid being at the front of the action and being scumread but ok

hey MM4, ur my #1 townread now

congrats

as i should be

Ok so there's like no way both rb and thor are town unless it's scum theatre in which case we caught 2 scum.
VOTE: thor

why?

It's just things like these. He's playing in a way that Rb will like. Almost constantly. He's playing up to rb without sucking up. He brought up not even throwing out the possibility of ScumRb, which is another thing that Rb would like. Also, in a way, Mulch vs Mario lends itself for Rb to side with Mario. I've done some meta diving of Mulch lately, and really, as scum, Mario played the best possible way to make sure the mulch slot got lynched. Have him self destruct, as Mulch has seemed to do that on multiple occasions, so I'm sure Mario knew exactly what he was doing there. I can get more, if you like; Mario has by far the scummiest ISO in the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

frog first makes sense tho cause he's gonna fake a pr and we need the night to prove he's wrong

Can we please wait on frog...I've tried over and over to explain why, based on the vig talk earlier. If a vig doesn't out himself stating they killed SD, sure, let's go Frog, but let's at least wait a day or two. I have reason to believe he's town, as stated before.

[Flavor Leaf]

i honestly think FL could be scum defending me for towncred

I'm not defending you at all. I'm pushing my scum reads, and I said if you are scum you will become obvious scum/reverse for town.

If you're scum, that is borderline an insult. (no disrespect, though).

[Flavor Leaf]

i honestly think FL could be scum defending me for towncred

I'm not defending you at all. I'm pushing my scum reads, and I said if you are scum you will become obvious scum/reverse for town.

If you're scum, that is borderline an insult. (no disrespect, though).

I just think there are bigger fish to fry that will fill this game up moreso than frying up a little anchovy will.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, thor and Mario's interactions have me doubting the mario, thor, una team I brought up earlier, but it could be scum theatre and distancing. Although, I don't think it would be necessarily needed right now, so that might actually give Thor some town cred for me.

If GR is scum, I don't think his play makes much sense. Why would he try to push Rb of all people? Seems like a death wish to me if Rb chooses to attack back.

[Flavor Leaf]

so ntrp what you think is;
I am indeed stopping Thor being lynched using

magic

and making rb do my work for me despite my mindset + reads being separate from rb's
Thor is lining up lynches of Dunkers and Flavor which doesn't give enough INFURMATION -> thor is scum with mm4 and rb????????
una is attacking eddie who was helping Rb who MM4 has pocketed -> scumteam somehow?????

And because of this scum has TOTAL CONTROL and that means the game is stagnating because scum definitely wouldn't use control to push mislynches?????????????????
Like the position you hold seems completely inane.

This was stated to discredit, right? I actually don't think this discredits anything, really. I've stated the way you are playing basically turns Rb on, and he's like...ohhhh yeaahh, gimme some more of dat Mario play, so he plays up for you. This could be the case even if you were town, Mario, so you trying to discredit that doesn't make sense. Rb wouldn't be that way if you didn't have separate reads. I mean, if Thor isn't your partner, sure, you can discredit the lining up lynching, but this by no means discredits anything. I don't believe Rb is scum.

Yeah, you completely reworded things in this post that you "outlined everything that's wrong". You just rewrote basically everything and added minor tweaks to fit your agenda. All you do to try and state that it's wrong is go "scum team somehoww??????" without actually explaining any reason why it would be wrong. You adding a load of question marks doesn't do anything.

[Flavor Leaf]

There's actually nothing to argue against. There's just a theory, with nothing to suggest it's correct.

Again, a bad misrep here. I scum read you prior to the "theory", which I have already explained I didn't necessarily think I was correct with the 3 person team. And now we're here, and instead of you trying to defend yourself and try to make some of us actually think you are town, you just blatant misrep/say there's nothing there, when that is obviously not the case.

[Flavor Leaf]

no player here has explained how they work.

I mean, I have. I don't think I was right, but I have...

[Flavor Leaf]

@Frog; Do you believe it to be likely Thor and Eddie are a scumteam based on associative or not?

@FL; But... the theory is literally unsupported. Using the word "misrep" isn't going to change that.

Okay. Good thing I'm not pushing for the team of you, Thor, and Una. I'm pushing you, so this theory talk is irrelevant. I was just putting my thoughts out there. I don't really care to make a major associative case right now, so I'm confused as to why that is what you are trying to act like I'm doing. Associative cases are easy to dismiss without flips, so again, I feel you are scum trying to discredit through pushing on a minor thing I posted in like...one post. I don't think Thor is actually scum right now, so if you guys were distancing, good job.

[Flavor Leaf]

Are you referring to 2487?
Because that doesn't contain a single good point.
Rb asks for reasons Ciara is scum, I respond, and that makes me buddying Rb?
Dunkerdoodles makes a strange statement unsupported by evidence, I ask him for reasoning, and that makes me buddying Rb?
Like none of the things you are saying make logical sense.

If Mulch self-destructed multiple times... then how is it more likely that I metadived him and purposefully chose a way to get Mulch lynched over whatever other townie, instead of the event occuring naturally, as it had "multiple times"?
The logical leaps you're making here are really big and I can't see what you're filling them with.

I'm assuming you had played with Mulch more than you meta diving him. That could be my bad. I have dived him, and in those situations, he does end up usually hitting scum. I read a game where he was lynched day 1, with a self vote, and he nailed two of the scum. It's more of an overarching case on you, rather than just one post. It's everything. The agenda you seem to be pushing, the walk around discrediting, the not actually defending, but stating things. The, what I still believe, was major rolefishing put it over the top for me, which is why I went deep in your ISO, and it's really everything seems to be pushing a scum agenda, but you're doing it in a way where people won't scum read you for it. Kudos for that.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's not about responding to your "case." I can do that if you point me to any post because I don't remember being impressed by any points you made. It's about you making a really fucking strange and reachy post, and you being scum for it.

See, this paints you as scum to me as well. Scum like town to make clear cut cases on them, so they can respond and defend against each one of them. I really don't see my posts as reachy. At all. I am stating pretty much everything that's on my mind. I'm even here trying to help you out if you are actually town, but you just seem to want to discredit and say no case is made. =/ People voted you after I did, so that states that you are in fact coming off as scummy. Dunkerdoodles even agreed to that when GR said you are scumming up the place. So that's, at the very least, 5 people who see you being scummy. What's your thoughts on that?

[Flavor Leaf]

You keep using the word "rolefishing."
I don't think it means what you think it means.

it means you are fishing for roles to come out.

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually believe you to be role fishing now, tbh.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Mario

His last post is pushing a ridiculous amount of scum agenda, and directly chainsaw defends Una. On top of how I was just conversing with rb, Mario is essentially scum claiming.

Here you're pushing me as scum literally because I defended Unabombah. Like, you do realise that saying that a case on someone is bad doesn't make you scum with that person, right? And you say I'm pushing this "scum agenda"; What agenda am I pushing, then, by voting you?

with this.

[Flavor Leaf]

Vote Count 1.05

Flavor Leaf

(6): rb, Flavor Leaf, Thor665, Mariomanic4, UnaBombaH, Eddie Cane

(L-1)

MarioManic4

(2): wavemode, Frog

NotTheRealPaul

(2): Game Replacement,

Sunlit Diamond

UnaBombaH

(1):

Mulch

Frog

(1): Dunkerdoodles

Not Voting

(1): NotTheRealPaul

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-08-06 20:05:00)

Mod Notes:

I'm gonna come back to this vote count, as I think it's pretty telling. I have replaced the names to fit their current player.

What's most telling is my wagon. Scum is on this wagon. I feel like both Rb and Eddie are town, and I know I'm town. Now let's take a look who's left on my wagon.

Flavor Leaf

(6):

rb, Flavor Leaf,

Thor665, Mariomanic4, UnaBombaH,

Eddie Cane

(L-1)

Oh, how funny is that. Thor, Mario, and Una. This is actually another reason that I feel like those three aren't the scum team, but there is definitely scum within this. Like, my lynch very well could have gone through, and because of the layout of how it happened, because it was based off crap reasoning and jokey early game stuff, this is by no means an all town wagon. Anyone who thinks differently is basically going to be a scum claim from my eyes.

[Flavor Leaf]

I played with Mulch once prior to this game. He was town and ended up deathtunneling me. He didn't get lynched for it. So that's wrong.

I already said it was my bad for assuming you'd played together and knew each other, so if that's wrong, I'm confused.

[Flavor Leaf]

Is fishing for actual evidence the same as rolefishing now, then?

I don't think you are fishing for evidence, though. I think you're fishing for a role claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

It was an early game wagon, sure. That doesn't mean there's scum on it.

lol, okay. I see this as the wagon that had us leave early game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Oh, is pushing people fishing for a role claim, then? That's interesting logic. I guess every player who isn't incredibly lurky or passive rolefishes every game, then.

It was just everything about how you went about doing it. The timing was uncanny, but I'm obviously not going to go into depth about that, because you are clearly role fishing now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, you haven't made a single point in forever. You've just been going. "Nope. Wrong. Isn't right. No." constantly. And instead of trying to help people town read, you are doing essentially nothing.

[Flavor Leaf]

It was an early game wagon, sure. That doesn't mean there's scum on it.

lol, okay. I see this as the wagon that had us leave early game.

Maybe it was. Doesn't actually mean anything.

pedit: Oh yes I'm DEFINITELY rolefishing by acting you to clarify logic that you're not giving. FLAVOR LEAF TOWN MVP

pedit: I have. My point is that your logic is bullshit. I've been trying to argue my point with you in case you're town, but literally all you're doing is making blank statements. You aren't actually doing shit.

I want to lynch you and/or NTRP. If you're actually town, stop doing this shit, give actual reasoning for your pushes, and then maybe it'll be possible to read you as such

You literally just repeated what I just said.

[Flavor Leaf]

I have given reasons. I personally feel I've given more reasons than the majority of the people in this game, and definitely more reasons than you have.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you're actually town, stop doing this shit, give actual reasoning for your pushes, and then maybe it'll be possible to read you as such

This comes off as Mario trying to bargain with me. He's trying to bargain with potentially giving me a town read from him so I'll stop pushing him.

[Flavor Leaf]

And I honestly have no clue what you mean by blank statements. I feel I'm anything but blank.

[Flavor Leaf]

Last ditch scum effort play. ^

Notice how when Paul was interacting with him, Mario voted Paul as well. He just goes for whoever is going after him. He's playing to survive, not to catch scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Fuck this.
VOTE: Flavor Leaf

pedit: Oooh, can you point me to some of them, please! Just to clarify, I'm not looking for blank statements, I'm looking for actual reasoning that shows that I'm doing something which is scum-indicative. Thanks

pedit2: You would literally fucking scumread me for revealing as an Innocent Child. I'm done here.

pedit3: You're saying I'm doing things, but you're not showing that I'm doing those things, and I'm not.

I am showing it. I'm sure other people would agree. I'm not really worried about showing it to you, to be honest. It means absolutely nothing what your read on me is because they're coming from scum. Also, you're going to be running a fool's course if this is the path you're taking. People aren't as oblivious as you are pretending to be.

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah I'm voting people who scumread me with 5 people on my wagon

misrep here. Paul and I are the only two to get in a 1v1 conversation with you. GR had just been poking in and out jabs, as he does, and Dunker just agreed in one post to GR. Dunker isn't even on your wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

Last ditch scum effort play. ^
HOW IS IT A FUCKING LAST DITCH SCUM PLAY
HOW AM I FUCKING "ROLEFISHING"
HOW AM I "PUSHING A SCUM AGENDA"

See, I can't answer the role fishing thing without outing a PR, which would make your role fishing successful.

You are pushing a scum agenda, because you have a scum wincon, and you are rolefishing, as stated above. You are pushing a scum agenda, because you aren't searching for scum, you are searching for mislynches that won't incriminate you. It's a last ditch scum play, because I have become your biggest threat in this game, and if you can outlive me, even if you get lynched tomorrow, you would have at least lived another day. We don't need any of this loud frustration stuff, either. You may actually feel like I haven't said anything, which I feel is actually a scum tell as well, because scum often feel like they get caught for no reason. Which in itself, is rather frustrating.

[Flavor Leaf]

Literally all of your points are just statements.
Every single fucking post I make, you twist and spin it into a "scumtell" except that you don't even fucking say why it is this thing but apparently I'm rolefishing when I ask for reasoning or some shit?

pedit: Oh yeah sure. Act like I'm confirmed scum to avoid answering my legitimate confirms. Sure it'll work out great for you.

pedit2: So? You were saying I'm pushing people who scumread me. That is not a viable scum gameplan.

Nah, just Paul and I. That is a viable game plan to get two mislynches, considering you won't be incriminated from either of our lynches.

[Flavor Leaf]

What's wrong with statements? Why can't statements be points? Not understanding that logic. i haven't twisted anything; you are the one who has been misrepping things. You basically just repeated the things I said about you and tried to push them onto me.

[Flavor Leaf]

What's Novice do?

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, if there was a N1 Vigilante, maybe they should claim if they shot SD, then I think Frog's nearly conftown for reasons that I should feel are obvious by now.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why would you assume there is a n1 vig? I wouldn't think two vigilantes are common.

[Flavor Leaf]

Because I can't shoot on N1 and someone who can only shoot on N1 makes sense w/ that. I didn't "assume" it- misrep by your standards I guess- I thought it was very possible.

Read my iso. Specifically around the time you voted me. I don't know if I'd believe a N1 Vigilante in this game. That changes a little bit on my viewpoints on Frog.

[Flavor Leaf]

If Mario was scum and knew whether or not that SD was a scum kill, that could also setup that claim for Mario. That's another one of those potential "magic", as you guys were calling it, moments with the Mario warlocking Rb. Rb specifically said Mario as scum wouldn't make that kill, so there's reasoning enough for Mario to have made that kill.

So I'm in the predicament here where if Mario is telling the truth and we don't lynch him, then him and I are both dead tonight, causing us to lose two town roles.

If he's scum and we don't lynch him, well, I'm still likely dead, and he'll get town cred from that and potentially sweep from that. Good fake claim really.

[Flavor Leaf]

That's me assuming Mario and Rb know each other again. Sorry if you don't, but it seemed as if you guys do.

[Flavor Leaf]

novice vig is a really good fakeclaim
is it possible to lynch outside of FL and MM4, aka can we lynch game replacement or maybe paul

I just don't like his thought process of why he thinks there would be another vig. How many full vigilantes do you generally see in games? I don't believe I'm on the table for being lynched, I'm just his "vig shot" if he is a vig.

I feel like I'm a pretty strong night kill candidate anyways, so really it's almost too perfect of a claim from him.

[Flavor Leaf]

Actually, with Mario talking about feeling like there is another vigilante out there, that comes off as even more role fishing out there. I feel like scum already know where some of the town PR's are at, and that was a martyr moment of potentially finding another PR. I'm going to stay on Mario. It's too much risk.

Any potential Vig's out there, don't claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly, just hammer. Worst case scenario if he ended up being town is that scum has to decide if they want to frame me or kill me. If Mario is actually town and he lives, then him and I both die tonight. This being said, if he's scum, they can kill me off and he can push it as if scum were killing me also, and then he'll argue his way out of a lynch tomorrow with WIFOM. I don't really want to die by Mario's hands in either of those situations. That being said, he's more likely scum than town. The claim was way too perfectly setup.

[Flavor Leaf]

mario is counterwagon to wave

get the fuck off mario right now

you are just super in his pocket. =/ big part of the case, really...

[Flavor Leaf]

Wave only had/has one vote on him, also...so how is it a counterwagon?

[Flavor Leaf]

holy shit this is an actual joke

please tell me you're lynching mario because of actual reasons and not just because game replacement came in and acted cocky

Yes, there is actual reasons.

[Flavor Leaf]

Thoughts on Una's intent to hammer, Rb?

[Flavor Leaf]

Yawn

VOTE: wavemode

It was a mistake to drag this day out sry

What do you mean try and use deadline...>.> You said it was a mistake to drag it out.

[Flavor Leaf]

Rb, maybe you should give last reads. I feel you're a likely scum target.

[Flavor Leaf]

ah didn't see the unvote.

unvote

So you said you had to agree with Eddie, then unvoted because Eddie did. Why did you unvote if you agreed with the vote? Him unvoting shouldn't have changed your perspective.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: frog

10:3 with possible traitor (cause sk). hm.

this would mean 9-3-1, not 10-3.

Also, why are you assuming 3 scum and a SK. That seems a little heavy against town, don't you think? I guess traitor could make sense. Are you implying maybe the NK was a traitor recruitment rather than a protection? That isn't normal, so it would have to be the grey slot if that's true.

[Flavor Leaf]

EVERY TOWNIE, LISTEN UP!
NO MATTER WHO WAS WRONG OR RIGHT PREVIOUSLY, BUT MM4 ADMITTED THAT HE WILL FLIP SK.

This means that

rb more likely than not, IS MAFIA.

Nothing is ever 100%, remember that, but rb forced his townread so far..

Read rb's comment on Mario being lynched even though he is his biggest townread, yet he was the one who hammered.
The most important thing, is that TO MAFIA, MARIO APPEARED TOWN, by the logic that he isn't in Mafias chat.
This was rb trying to get towncred for a mislynch, but sadly for him, he chose a guy who was the SK.

I might die the following night because of this, but I'm happy to take the bullet.

VOTE: una

garbage

Honestly, had I been around and I saw Una post this, I probably would have moved my vote. When I was arguing with Mario I started to pull away from ScumUna, but then Mario flipped SK. I'm most likely heading here tonight.

Una, do you have anything to say about how scummy you look right now?

[Flavor Leaf]

- scum and vig killed the same person who was subsequently healed

Wouldn't that mean the person dies anyway? (according to normal Doctor in wiki)

Or do you mean that in these kind of games "Some moderators cause Doctors' protection to stop all kills that would resolve on the target that Night." is more likely?

There are other roles that could have stopped it as well. I personally don't think we have a vig, though. 1 kill Night 1, and no kill night 2?


I also want to comment on Mario's saying "he played no different than if he were town."

I don't believe that to be true. I posted in one of my posts yesterday about him not defending himself, and was focusing on surviving, not finding scum, and SK's main playstyle is to just survive. Granted, I can't imagine he's played as SK much before, as who among us has, but surviving definitely was his focus.

[Flavor Leaf]

I said had I been around. The lynch happened after that, didn't it? let me check.

[Flavor Leaf]

you're right. I didn't realize it was such a long twilight. Guess I wouldn't have.

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly, the SD kill makes the most sense coming from someone who was trying to frame either Thor or Wave. Occam's razor, really.

If a vig killed SD, that's fine. They might have actually thought there was scum. I really don't think there's a vig at this point, though. Us talking about it so much without it coming up might give scum ammunition for a fake claim of vig, though. I've already stated who I think was the scum kill if there is in fact a vig who shot SD.

On GR, I think he's probably town. He went straight after RB, and if RB is town, and GR is scum, then GR got incredibly lucky RB didn't power tunnel GR. Seems unnecessarily risky.

[Flavor Leaf]

On GR, I think he's probably town. He went straight after RB, and if RB is town, and GR is scum, then GR got incredibly lucky RB didn't power tunnel GR. Seems unnecessarily risky.

I don't see it like this, but whatever.
I think GR might have actually found scum there, and people are just hesitant to follow him on it.

Players like rb can be rude to people, and it is NAI, but realize that in the scenario where they are scum, they use it to discredit newer players and make them look dumb for blaming them.
I'm more hesitant on rb simply because Eddie and Thor both think he is town (and they felt for a long time like they were on the opposite sides), but I'm still not sure whether that is enough of a reason to obv.town that slot.

I think I will need time to formulate something for today, but I still have a hunch that Eddie/rb-slot might have scum.
For now, Eddie seems more town.

that's essentially what I meant. That's a ballsy move as scum, and GR could have got torn apart from it. I see GR as town is basically what I'm saying because of how ballsy that play was. Even if RB were to flip town, my read would stay. It's not reliant on Rb's alignment.

[Flavor Leaf]

that's essentially what I meant. That's a ballsy move as scum, and GR could have got torn apart from it. I see GR as town is basically what I'm saying because of how ballsy that play was. Even if RB were to flip town, my read would stay. It's not reliant on Rb's alignment.

Ok, agreed on that then.
I'm starting lean even more heavily town on you too, so I sort of have three strongish townreads now.

In Eddies opinion most of us are acting scummy though..?

Generally when town have no clue what's going on they blame it on the town acting scummy. I personally don't think anyone's playing poorly this game. I haven't been as active as I'd like to have been, but yeah.

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly, with how that wagon ended, I wouldn't be surprised if it was just Dunker and Rb. I'm not going to assume there's 3 scum with a flipped SK. My town read of Frog has slipped since I don't think there's a vigilante out there. I'm going to look at a few wagons real quick.

[Flavor Leaf]

These are the biggest wagons of the game, biggest wagon on each player provided.

Vote Count 1.05

Flavor Leaf

(6): rb, Flavor Leaf, Thor665, Ausuka, UnaBombaH, Eddie Cane

(L-1)

I feel there has to be scum on this wagon besides just the SK. So that means one of Rb, Thor, Una, or Eddie are scum.

Vote Count 1.06

Sunlit Diamond

(4): rb, wavemode, Dunkerdoodles, NotTheRealPaul

SD flipped town. This wagon is full of potential scum players. I am personally town reading, Wave, so I feel one of the other 3 are scum.

Vote Count 1.12

Thor665

(4): Eddie Cane, rb, Dunkerdoodles, Mulch

Look who's here again. Rb and Dunkers.

Vote Count 1.15

Mulch

(5): MarioManiac4, rb, Eddie Cane, skitter30, NotTheRealPaul

MM was the first on this wagon and flipped SK. Likely scum elsewhere on this wagon. Why wouldn't scum jump on Mulch...? Rb and Paul are here together. But the funny thing happens in the next VC.

Vote Count 1.16

Mulch

(7): MarioManiac4, rb, Eddie Cane, skitter30, NotTheRealPaul, Dunkerdoodles, Mulch

(LYNCH)

Look who joined...Dunker.

Vote Count 2.04

wavemode

(5): MarioManiac4, Eddie Cane, Dunkerdoodles, rb, NotTheRealPaul

This wagon makes me town read wave more. Mario was SK, I town Eddie. And look who the last three on this wagon are...our friends Dunker, Rb, and Paul.

Vote Count 2.09 - FINAL

MarioManiac4

(6): wavemode, Flavor Leaf, Game Replacement, NotTheRealPaul, Dunkerdoodles, rb

(LYNCH)

Getting repetitive? Look at the last 3 on the wagon again.

[Flavor Leaf]

Man, I'm getting super paranoid that you're starting to pocket me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Getting repetitive? Look at the last 3 on the wagon again.

While I already said I agree that there is scum in those three (possibly two), I'm not ready to believe all three of them would be so transparently together.

I honestly am worried that NTRP is just sheeping/floating around this game.
He is prob. town who just lacks drive to take things to their own hands, and rather follows strong players.

This would leave us with potential Dunker+rb (based on those vote-counts), and one who has stayed off wagons or is townread highly enough to escape detection.

See, I don't think there are 3 scum. I could see that traitor possibility that Eddie brought up potentially, but 3 full scum members and a SK seems a little too hard for town. It's why I'm not even thinking about 3 scum anymore. I'll focus on two, and if the game continues after that, I'll go from there.

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually think all the PR's in this game are incredibly obvious by now, and unless there is info to give, I don't think any of the PR's should full claim. It only helps scum at this point, because they can pick which PR's they'd rather have around.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, Eddie, I believe it was you that brought it up.

A Doctor is a role that targets a player at Night to protect that player from a

single kill

made during that Night.

[Flavor Leaf]

From the wiki

[Flavor Leaf]

If it matters, I went over some of Rb's scum games over the night phase, and he has replaced out as scum a good amount. He does it as town, too, though, so it's NAI.

[Flavor Leaf]

I am tempted to call for a mass claim. there are positives and negatives. assuming 3 scum, after 2 mislynches and 2 successful nks we are 6:3 aka lylo. so, we need some time to sort out claims. dunker and frog have obviously softed being pr so if town scum know where to kill. actually, maybe frog was shot and saved, but idk I know I scumread him and he was potentially mislynchable. but anyways, the disadvantage of mass claim is scum being able to kill as they please. id like to point out, however, they probably don't have a roleblocker because if they did sk would be fucked.

I'm going to make this a formal poll. i am strongly in favour of mass claiming and will go first and popcorn it. if you strongly object quote this and explain why.

flavor leaf, we have too many softs. people need to be accountable before it's lylo and they can fake. if frog is town i need his role to sort him and I know what kind of prs tb will and won't crumb for example. dunker is a good lynch depending on his claim

These two posts show me that we should absolutely not mass claim right now and that it will really only benefit scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, so what if scum end up fake claiming? You shouldn't be relying on claims to help you solve the game. Analyze play and how the game is as a whole before claims. What good does claiming do besides let scum know exactly what PR's they're up against? Sure, you could setup spec, but that also goes strongly in scum's favor. We have a SK flip, and that's really it. Without a scum flip, a mass claim just allows scum to WIFOM city us.

[Flavor Leaf]

people need to be accountable before it's lylo and they can fake.

You say this, but what would stop scum from fake claiming here and carrying that to end game?

[Flavor Leaf]

Honestly, Rb slot and Dunker are probably just scum. If Dunker just fake softed last page then that goes to show that the mass claim is completely beneficial to scum, as it would likely just let him coast through.

[Flavor Leaf]

You've missed some things, Eddie. Let's move on from it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, we don't need to mass claim for a counterclaim situation to come out. Dunker's likely claiming this day phase, so that can be dealt with.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you think there is only 2 town pr, with a SK, and that proposed 3 man scum team with a traitor, your logic doesn't make sense at all. All a mass claim would do would out any other PR out there.

[Flavor Leaf]

You are literally the only one who thinks that right now. It's because you're a tone reader.

[Flavor Leaf]

town is probably 4 pr.

so you're saying you want to out those PR's?

[Flavor Leaf]

You are literally the only one who thinks that right now. It's because you're a tone reader.

and as the most experienced player in this game now that rb left, what does my lack of strong scumreads tell you?

Pretty sure Thor and Frog both have you beat on that, tbh...

[Flavor Leaf]

Pretty sure Thor and Frog had Rb beat on that, haha.

[Flavor Leaf]

scum is probably 3 goons or 2 goons and a traitor. town is probably 4 pr.

this is very loose based on a lack of flips,

but yeah.

this is why we don't mass claim yet. Too easy for scum to manipulate a mass claim without concrete evidence to fight against them.

[Flavor Leaf]

I can explain why I am against it tomorrow better if I'm alive still.

[Flavor Leaf]

what does my lack of strong scumreads tell you?

that you are a tone reader and was wrong about Mario because of it...? Don't get me wrong, tone reader's have its benefits as well, but you can't always use that kind of thing in Mafia. Have to change it up and start looking at the game from different perspectives. It basically means, you should probably start looking at the logic and what people are playing towards. You seem to be the only one in this game struggling to find reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you think Wave is scum, by all means, mak

[Flavor Leaf]

e a case for it. (accidentally clicked submit before finishing).

[Flavor Leaf]

what does my lack of strong scumreads tell you?

that you are a tone reader and was wrong about Mario because of it...? Don't get me wrong, tone reader's have its benefits as well, but you can't always use that kind of thing in Mafia. Have to change it up and start looking at the game from different perspectives. It basically means, you should probably start looking at the logic and what people are playing towards. You seem to be the only one in this game struggling to find reads.

I wasn't wrong on Mario, i knew he probably wasnt town. it was still poor play to lynch him even thoigh you wont acceot that since he was vigging ypu. I'm also not really a tone reader. Mario was scum on tone from his mulch interactions.

So you purposefully kept off the wagon even though you thought he was probably not town? Why was it poor play to lynch him? He was an anti town role that was going to "confirm" himself as town, and likely coast through the game afterwards, along with town having lost me.

But like I said, you are the only one in this game struggling to find reads. I'm town reading you based on your early game play not making sense to me as scum, but I don't think I'd be wrong to say that there's something off about you today. I'm sure I'm not the only one who would say that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm waiting for Thor really to come back. I want to interact with him.

[Flavor Leaf]

because lynching a vig claim in a normal early on is bad play. serial killer games rely on the sk helping with mafia too.

why can't people rely on their scum hunting? I feel we're in a pretty decent position right now, tbh. Only Mulch and SD, two vt's have died, so.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Dunker

Aight. I'm a PR. Kill me scum, I dare you. Or you ballsy enough to try and frame me?

[Flavor Leaf]

For the WIFOM answer in case it's needed. Frog. Just frog. That is the answer to any questions in correlation to me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Ugh. I have a result from last night, but it's complicated. I'm loyal.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm going to share, but I want people to chime in and see people potentially freak out. Also, if I was blocked by town of some sort, then my action means nothing.

[Flavor Leaf]

We had a no kill, so I'm thinking town might have a JK, and I was blocked, which is what I'm trying to ask. If mafia have a roleblocker of some sort, and targeted me, that's obviously not going to come out, but if town did it, that might.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel frog and I were the likely deaths, so one of us were likely protected.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel frog and I were the likely deaths, so one of us were likely protected.

For whatever reason, I don't like posts like this.

What makes you assume you or frog were the NK-target?

I for one thought either of you could make good "suspects" for guys like Eddie/Game Replacement.
If anything, I'm surprised Thor/GR wasn't the target.

Because TB softed hard Day 1, and I was softing all over the place. I did my end of day stuff yesterday to WIFOM over the mafia. Apparently it worked. If they're a 3 stack, then they can't win off of a mislynch today, where if a kill went through they would have.

[Flavor Leaf]

I targeted Eddie last night with a loyal cop shot to a no result.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hence my questioning earlier of whether or not I was roleblocked or not.

[Flavor Leaf]

well, claim the rest of your results. I'm the doc, and i have 2 innos (2 seperate people last 2 nights). i healed rb/rb/frog, last 2 of which were no kills. if you claim results on them im probably gonna push you, fair watning.

I'm a Loyal JOAT.

Rolestop/JK/Cop

Frog, Frog, Eddie.

TB epically soft claimed Day 1, so I went out to protect Frog the first two nights. I even commented on it way back then when I talked about if SD was vig kill, then Frog is likely town.

[Flavor Leaf]

well, claim the rest of your results. I'm the doc, and i have 2 innos (2 seperate people last 2 nights). i healed rb/rb/frog, last 2 of which were no kills. if you claim results on them im probably gonna push you, fair watning.

I'm a Loyal JOAT.

Rolestop/JK/Cop

Frog, Frog, Eddie.

TB epically soft claimed Day 1, so I went out to protect Frog the first two nights. I even commented on it way back then when I talked about if SD was vig kill, then Frog is likely town.

if you're town targeting the same person twice with loyal is literally disgusting. and, you were asking about a jk when you have a jk shot?

I mean, I was trying to catch multiple scum. Honestly, there's no reason for me to have claimed that after you brought that up as scum. Why is it disgusting? Pretty sure I blocked multiple kills. If you are a doctor, I have no idea why you expect Rb would have been the kill for that night. He replaced out, and had a good chance of having the slot be lynched.

[Flavor Leaf]

probably. fwiw I figured you'd be killed to frame me if you were town. honestly last night it was incredibly hard to choose who to save cause you were all being so scummy. i knew scum in this game aren't good enough to know to double target kill so rb slot was safe but meh. i thought about it a lot. it also makes sense with scum!flavor trying to fake a guilty on me today

If I was trying to fake a guilty on you today, I would have went all out from the beginning. Like, we're not even in MYLO or anything. Why the hell would I claim a guilty right now?

[Flavor Leaf]

I was a likely night kill target which is why i scumm'd it up late yesterday. I still had my cop shot to use. That's why I was fighting the mass claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

probably. fwiw I figured you'd be killed to frame me if you were town. honestly last night it was incredibly hard to choose who to save cause you were all being so scummy. i knew scum in this game aren't good enough to know to double target kill so rb slot was safe but meh. i thought about it a lot. it also makes sense with scum!flavor trying to fake a guilty on me today

If I was trying to fake a guilty on you today, I would have went all out from the beginning. Like, we're not even in MYLO or anything. Why the hell would I claim a guilty right now?

hence why you claimed loyal aka a partial guilty...

I even brought that up from the beginning, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Man, Rb, how obvious do I have to make it?

Like, I'm town. Idk how else to prove it. I can go point out my crumbs, I guess.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: flavor

sorry, nah. if you're town those are incredibly suboptimal actions and I'll explain why in post for your learning purposes if you want. you're very likely just scum tho.

No, explain it now. I fucking am likely the reason no kills were happening.

[Flavor Leaf]

I even epic targeted Mario for rolefishing directly after that.

[Flavor Leaf]

yeah, k, lose the fucking game. Don't deserve to be carried anyways.

[Flavor Leaf]

Eddie's claim seems very circumstancial.

He's probably just scum, but i'm being piled on by multiple people, so whatever. Rb slot isn't conf town either, so frog's full of crap too right now.

They even seemingly forgot Dunker's a fucking commuter.

[Flavor Leaf]

They're just fighting my guilty.

VOTE: Eddie

[Flavor Leaf]

yeah, k, lose the fucking game. Don't deserve to be carried anyways.

on what planet would you have carried us LMAO

This is a perspective slip. He's just calling my play bad town essentially here.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: flavor

sorry, nah. if you're town those are incredibly suboptimal actions and I'll explain why in post for your learning purposes if you want. you're very likely just scum tho.

so frog's scum? Hilarious how you two just all of a sudden accept each other. And you go and conf people out while not even knowing the full extent of things.

There's a fucking flipped commuter. wtf is this "nothing else would've prevented kill"

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm god damn positive I fucking blocked a kill N1 or N2.

[Flavor Leaf]

Frog, he's setting me up. if you're town, please see this. If you're scum, meh, carry on.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, the 2 flipped roles both have X-shot attatched to them. I'm essentially an X-shot as well. Eddie claimed full doctor.

[Flavor Leaf]

Rolestop/JK/Cop

Hang on, what do you mean by 'rolestop'? Do you mean JK?

rolestop is basically doctor on steroids check the wiki

Huh

UNVOTE:

Give me a minute

rolestop and jk are not a joat combo anyways. you aren't being hasty, we don't have town doctor and town rs/jk never mind town jk/rs/cop joat rofl

you're right. We don't. If I was scum, why the hell would I claim to have a rolestop/JK in this situation.

[Flavor Leaf]

At this point, Eddie is confirmed scum from my perspective seeing as he pushed me in the way he did, and there's no roleblock on me is coming up. I expect Una/GR/Paul to hop on me as well, as the remaining scum are likely in there.

[Flavor Leaf]

Let me check one thing

Eddie, you protected me last night?

I role stopped you Night 1, and jailkept you Night 2. If you have an action that you would know if you were roleblocked or not, you're confirmed town thanks to my Loyal.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't see mod meta as a valid defense at this point, Eddie. The fact is you voted town twice. I would need something pretty concrete to vote FL over you.

when the fuck did i mention mod meta

When you were speculating on the setup.

Will you vote Flavor Leaf?

he literally just stated that it's going to take a lot of concrete evidence to vote me over Eddie.

[Flavor Leaf]

if scum no killed last night I'll be impressed. I'm comfortable calling you lock town tho.

he also perspective slipped here.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: flavor

sorry, nah.

if you're town

those are incredibly suboptimal actions and I'll explain why in post for your learning purposes if you want. you're very likely just scum tho.

also, another. If he was town, he should see me as basically lock scum from his point of view, which he meant to say in the post I just quoted before.

[Flavor Leaf]

Just look at my ISO. I really feel like I played my role 100% correctly, and I'm just getting abused from it. Eddie could have no killed last night and set this all up.

[Flavor Leaf]

Eddie was pocketing me all game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf (6): rb, Flavor Leaf, Thor665, Ausuka, UnaBombaH, Eddie Cane (L-1)

Really think there was absolutely no mafia on this wagon? (if you say I'm the mafia on the wagon, you'd be comfortable saying I'm the only mafia on that wagon?)

[Flavor Leaf]

Hey, guys. I'm here. If SD was a vig shot, then TB is likely town.

Hey, guys. I'm here. If SD was a vig shot, then TB is likely town.

I not follow. Explain dis

No. don't talk about it.

Why not frog?

Read my ISO, and then let's talk about something else.

there's like barely anything in your iso about frog, and you don't even interact with him

there's just one statement where you say you think frog is town

so again: why not frog?

maybe look for the predecessor.

Until I get more information, I'm going to want to keep Frog alive.

Man, Rb, how obvious do I have to make it?

frog first makes sense tho cause he's gonna fake a pr and we need the night to prove he's wrong

Can we please wait on frog...I've tried over and over to explain why, based on the vig talk earlier. If a vig doesn't out himself stating they killed SD, sure, let's go Frog, but let's at least wait a day or two. I have reason to believe he's town, as stated before.

Actually, if there was a N1 Vigilante, maybe they should claim if they shot SD, then I think Frog's nearly conftown for reasons that I should feel are obvious by now.

town is probably 4 pr.

so you're saying you want to out those PR's?

I can explain why I am against it tomorrow better if I'm alive still.

Okay, Frog. These are some posts that hopefully can help you out when reading me. I have constantly been posting about scum likely knowing the PR's as it was obvious at the time. There's a quote somewhere where I'm talking to RB, and I link Rb's name, too. A big part of my 1v1 with Mario was that he was role fishing me, and yesterday I was completely against mass claiming for those reasons. I felt like Eddie was trying to get the roles out so he can pick where he wanted to kill.

[Flavor Leaf]

The problem I have is that, although my results clarify things, they do not confirm either one of Flavor Leaf or Eddie Cane as scum

You're right. It confirms Eddie as scum to me, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

The reason for me thinking Flavor Leaf was scum, by the way, was that I thought he had roleblocked me Night One when I had received a result

Nah, I roleblocked anyone targeting you. TB softed pretty hard. I have been stating that the PR's were obvious this game. You'd be dead if I were scum, night 1 likely. Which you likely were going to be, had I not saved you.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf: Town Loyal JOAT - N1 rolestop on Frog, N2 jailkeep on Frog, N3 Cop on Eddie - No Result. (Loyal means if I target someone not town then my action doesn't work.)

Frog: Odd Night Watcher - Night 1 watched Rb. Eddie targeted. Night 3. Watched me. Nobody targeted me.

Eddie Cane: Doctor - N1 Rb, N2 RB, N3, Frog.

[Flavor Leaf]

He claimed full doctor. There isn't a single full role in this game thus far.

[Flavor Leaf]

So Frog got a result on N1 even though it should have been blocked by FL. That means there's a lie in one of those two results.

No, he messed up on that. He thought I said I blocked him, but I targeted him with a rolestop, which roleblocks people who targeted him. He himself wasn't roleblocked.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: frog

10:3 with possible traitor (cause sk). hm.

this would mean 9-3-1, not 10-3.

Also, why are you assuming 3 scum and a SK. That seems a little heavy against town, don't you think? I guess traitor could make sense. Are you implying maybe the NK was a traitor recruitment rather than a protection? That isn't normal, so it would have to be the grey slot if that's true.

I think Eddie's quote here is also a perspective slip when he said 10-3. I think he knows he's a team of 3, so SK wasn't with him so he grouped SK in with us.

[Flavor Leaf]

I find that a bit tendentious, to be honest

10:3 could be town:anti-town

He specifically stated 3 mafia, and the sk separate. I even commented on it.

[Flavor Leaf]

wait, that's what happened last night. They recruited a traitor.

[Flavor Leaf]

I've literally only been on one mislynch, and I was the hammer.