Open 62 - Strawberry Mafia - Game Over! before 568

[Marmalade]

vote: Near

. Um... are you?

[Marmalade]

Aren't people seeing Near as joking?

That's what I thought, anyway.

unvote

vote: neko

[Marmalade]

Sarcasm doesn't really translate well over the internet.

So, you voted me why, exactly? Because I have no sense of humor?

Why didn't the sarcasm work for you?

[Marmalade]

Neko, the reason I voted for you was [because at that time, the only people on the second page who had not understood Near's sarcasm were yourself and Snix, and Snix's post #26 provided far more logic than "he's a stupid newbie", which you seemed to suggest.

Kinda suspicious of Yvonneseer for just popping in to random vote, and not comment on

anything

that's been going on. Got anything to say, Yvonne?

[Marmalade]

Hi. I haven't posted in a few days, but I haven't posted for a while, and will try and post at some time this afternoon, but otherwise it may be tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Marmalade]

Hola people. Apologies for the long delay in posting. It is currently 3am, and I am tired, but I am going to bring up some quick observations for now. Neko, I don't have time to put the time and effort required into defending myself from your earlier accusations, thus I shall hopefully do that tomorrow/today/depending on where you are.

I'm slightly concerned that YvonneSeer and ThAdmiral could be a scumpairing, since literally neither seem to have done much except go after each other, which could be a distancing argument. Whilst ThAdmiral has contributed a bit, YvonneSeer has effectively done nothing

but

attack ThAdmiral

So, Yvonne, why such a narrow slant at such an early stage in the game?

Also, Jester, in one of your posts on page 4 I think, you mention YvonneSeer as following the pack. Can you explain what you mean by this, since I would argue that, if anything, she has never done that here.

Xtoxm and Peers = not scum-hunting. A gut feeling vote is not particularly helpful, as others have suggested, at this time. I don't see either of them as having a positive impact at the moment - I am not seeing the content.

Also, I distinctly remember a rather dubious post by malthius, followed by him leaving again, which doesn't exactly present him in a pro-town light.

Also, does anyone else get the impression that since the beginning escapade, Near has been playing *very* quietly, not saying much, staying relatively in the background? Maybe its just me, but I'm sensing something is amiss.

[Marmalade]

PS: I will vote, state my intentions towards voting, in my next post. Now, I am far too tired to even contemplate voting.

[Marmalade]

I will post later today. Also, as an aside, I will have limited access starting Friday for around 12 days as I will be in Mexico.

[Marmalade]

Yes, I said she was pack-following a little. Specifically, what caught my eye was her post 96. She didn't actually vote with neko, but she said that his argument against Xtoxm made a lot of sense (which it did). Still, it's only one of two data points I have for Yvonne, not my total opinion of her. The second data-point is her single-targeting, which I find to be the tactic of either scum, or lazy-town. But that's why I originally said "I don't have good reads on Peers, Marmalade, or Yvonne yet." I didn't. I still don't, on Peers and Yvonne. I just added a third data-point for Yvonne, though: "Is now avoiding this game." I don't like people who pick up prods, but don't respond in-game.

Indeed, that's very true, and something I hadn't actually considered. Regarding your first point, I would appreciate some kind of explanation from her, as well as on the second point.

I checked up Yvonne's post records, since I remember at the beginning of the game that she was posting in other threads but not here. This seems to be the case sometimes -- she seems to have days where she is online, and others when she isn't. The days she is online she seems to make a large number of posts -- interestingly, though, none of these posts were made in this game on Monday, or Wednesday of last week, when Yvonne spurred more than a page of posts on her record. The very fact she seems to have checked her other games considerably, and not glanced at this one seems notably odd.

FOS: YvonneSeer

for this bizarre activity pattern.

Also, on a (slightly) related note, I'm in the process of checking up on Yvonne and Cephrir in their completed games just to check if their playstyles here are matching that.

Yvonne: I looked up Heroes Smalltown just to see her general posting in that game. She definitely had a different focus -- she moved between several players throughout and was definitely not stuck in a simply one player mindset. The fact this differs from here is odd. However, this cannot really count for anything, since I haven't found a game that Yvonne was scum in properly, and judging by her wiki, there doesn't seem to be any. She was scum in two that she replaced into, but they don't say much about her strategy (although in Ork Mafia she did attack two players a bit). However, I wouldn't advocate this as evidence against Yvonne per se -- it's pretty biased and not exactly objective (although it is interesting that she plays differently as town, it seems).

Cephrir, however, does seem to play like he does now as town, with short and crisp posts (e.g. NoxKill.) I would say, however, these are different to Xtoxm's posts. However, he alleges on his wiki that he hasn't even been scum. Hm.

So overall, my attempted meta reads on Cephrir and Yvonne turned out to be fairly inconclusive, as neither have a proper game as scum under their belt to analyse (unless they really do... guys?!) So, overall, whilst I'm somewhat more reassured by Cephrir's play in this game (I was becoming worried about his short replies), and am more worried about Yvonne's more single-minded playstyle, this realistically cannot be a balanced piece of evidence without finding their playstyle as scum, which sadly doesn't seem to be available. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

However, more conclusiveis the fact that Yvonne has been posting in her other games and not here. In two of her days when she "surged" and posted a lot in other games, not once did she post here, even though she at some point picked up a prod. That, however, is suspicious.

[Marmalade]

However, I am curious about the fact Cephrir ignores what has been happening recently (e.g. regarding Yvonne) and has merely questioned Snix's vote in his most recent post.

[Marmalade]

i have limited access, so although there is lots of stuff to respond to, i cannot respond to it all, and instead, will need to pick out smaller details.

unvote vote Yvonne

.

I've played with her before as town, she didn't post all that often, but more than this, and definatley a lot more productively.

Um, didn't you read a post by me where I tried analysing this? This type of evidence is thoroughly inconclusive

unless you know how she plays as scum.

Otherwise, this is an entirely subjective meta.

FoS: Xtoxm

I want an explanation about why you seemingly ignored my big post where I noted this, and pointed out that it is inconclusive.

I'm not going to place a vote, in case I am away for a long time, but I am happy with the increased suspicion on Yvonne. I don't scigatt's gut read about the admiral (it sounds like a ploy to save Yvonne).

[Marmalade]

it seems i am still voting. i don´t have the keys on this computer to bold )they have fallen off), so I would appreciate it if it would be counted anyways.

UNVOTE

ps¨still very limited access

Bolded by mod

[Marmalade]

I´m still here, but in Mexico for the mo.

Yvonne, the reason people are looking at you is that from the beginning you have looked merely at thadmiral, which such a narrow focus. It is unlikely that anyone would find scum so fast, but even if you were so sure, it is scummy to just avoid discussing others as well.

Also, your defence is comking across as very bitter, and not like you are really trying to help the town.

[Marmalade]

And? We could quite clearly use the extra time for something else. Why waste time lynching someone when so much more information can be gained?

Minor FoS: Xtoxm

. Your forceful attitude towards Yvonne strikes me as odd.

[Marmalade]

I think she's scum.

No, sorry. This doesn't work.

Why do you really want her to go? Although I can understand that her replacement may manipulate everybody, really, I don't think this is a huge concern, and instead, having the replacement is so much more advantageous.

Can you think of any other reasons why you would want a lynch instead of a replacement? I've just given one, as had you. Neither are substantial enough to warrant your position, however. Try again?

Bigger FoS: Xtoxm

---

On other news, I'm impressed with Scigatt and Snix for their recent posts, and not so impressed with Near's post, although we'll see what he says after his re-read. I primarily consider it important for everyone to continue to way in, as contribution is what we need most right now.

[Marmalade]

Why?

Is someone automatically reset to nuetral read simply because they are replaced?

No. I wanted to lynch her based on what she'd said. That hasn't changed jsut cause she's not here anymore.

You may think that she is scum. However, does that

really

pose majoir difficulties if she is replaced? What is the main disadvantage of her being replaced. I am hard-pressed to think of any. However, the main

advantage

of her being replaced is that we can have a longer Day 1; there are still many people we have not focused on, and that means that ending the day right now is unsatisfactory.

*Sigh* I feel this is a rather pointless argument, and rather than arguing about whether or not her being replaced is a good idea, we should

continue

discussing (it's quite clear she's not going to get lynched right now, anyway.) I think I need to do another read through. *grumble*

[Marmalade]

Why are people voting Ecto?
Why are people voting ThAdmiral?

On more pressing matters:

vote: Near

. I'm fed up of him, particularly after his last contribution. Try harder, pls.

[Marmalade]

I should be writing my essay, but oh well.

---

I have some questions for people:

1.

Cephrir, why are you still voting for ThAdmiral?

2.

Snix and Xtoxm, why are you still voting Ectomancer?

3.

Near, where are you, and where is your analysis?

4.

Scigatt, can you expand on your recent post?

5.

Neko, what do you think of Ectomancer?

--

This should clear some stuff up.

Also, I think I am going to re-read Scigatt and DizzyIzzy, since they've been worrying me the most recently. I'm far more confident about Ectomancer after his replies, which have been striking me as far more town than Yvonne's.

[Marmalade]

Um, yeah. I don't like the way that DizzyIzzy's replies to Ecto's attacks seem to be "well, oh my god, you, like, got my gender wrong, and I just, like, totally don't agree!!" More substantial arguments, please?

I'm getting a funny feeling from Ecto's post where he votes for Izzy. He says "some may call it WIFOM", or something like that. But as Cephrir pointed out, it quite clearly

isn't

WIFOM. To therefore say anything about WIFOM seems odd. I think this is just a gut feeling though.

Has anyone noticed that Neko has been a lot quieter recently? Perhaps it's just a feeling I've been getting, since I know he posted quite recently, but I've thought he's been quieter ever since Ecto replaced in.

Still waiting for Near's analysis.

[Marmalade]

...

I'm getting a pretty bad feeling about DizzyIzzy's recent posts. When pressured about her suspicions of Yvonne and Ecto, who she has effectively pushed for most of the game, she basically says that it comes down to a gut suspicion.

So, Dizzy, you mentioned earlier that you were suspicious of those who wanted Yvonne replaced instead of lynched, implying you wanted her lynched. Was this just because of a "gut feeling", or was there something more substantial behind it.

Oh, and saying there is no case against you is pretty dumb. It's quite clear that, while your defences come down to being nitpicky about genders and suchlike, there are more substantial things that you are ignoring.

I think ThAdmiral has highlighted some of my concerns about neko. He's just...

quiet

. After being one of the louder players earlier on, this is dishevilling me a bit.

Where

is Near?

[Marmalade]

(Also I planned in the entire post to say at the end "Woooo I am Mafia Scum now!", and entirely forgot. I thought it was worthy of making a new post for, in case any of you particularly care, which I doubt.)

[Marmalade]

The problem is that Yvonne is not here to answer questions I'm sure everyone wanted answered. Why? Because some few people decided it be a nice thing to do and go and get her replaced. She didn't need a replacement, she was there. She picked up prods, responded, wasn't inactive. Just lurking. When the pressure got too much though she was replaced.

Blaming people for Yvonne feeling too much pressure and leaving? This feels

really

contrived. Especially when the "some people" in fact includes you. Let's see:

Well, maybe if we put some pressure on her she'll post a bit more/get less bored.

Vote Yvonne

Forgot to do that in my last post.

Oh, well then. That clears that up. Now we can focus on more important things. Thank God you've contributed to the game.

/sarcasm

If you aren't trying to get lynched then I don't know what you're doing.

Do you really think that these above posts (particularly the last one)

aren't

pressuring Yvonne? I, quite frankly, don't. What's more, I really don't like you blaming neko for this.

I blame this mostly on you, because as a really loud member of the town you hold a bit of sway. So when you say she should be replaced it makes her being replaced a good thing. It's now what the 'town' wants instead of a ploy to remove pressure. Now her replacement is doing better in some cases but he has a bad vibe.

This feels

weird

.

I am, I'll admit, voting Ecto because of everything Yvonne did. But I still feel she should have been lynched rather than replaced. And I'm not going to give Ecto a clean slate.

No one said that you should give him a clean slate. The point that neko was clearly making is that he won't be able to justify her behaviour, so if you are expecting answers, then don't expect much.

I just feel that there are different and better people (ie. Near, Dizzy) to pressure than Ecto at the moment. In time we will see about him, I think.

This whole post felt like a really exaggerated OMGUSesque post. For that I have to

FoS: Snix

, because it just feels really off.

It's nice to see Dizzy provide a coherent explanation of her Yvonne suspicion

now

, and it's interesting that this wasn't done when, you know, Yvonne was actually here.

Frankly, it makes me suspicious of the people who wanted a scummy player replaced rather then lynched as well, but they could just be stupid rather than scummy.

I unequivocally disagree with all the people who argue this. Please explain why Yvonne being replaced instead of lynched ranks "stupid" at best for you.

Nonetheless, I do agree that the Dizzy thing is pretty weak overall. I find it relatively uninteresting at the moment.

People we should be pressuring: Near, Snix

[Marmalade]

Explain why Yvonne should have been replaced.

You even want to go there? Okay.

1. Because she

asked

for a replacement. I don't have the time to look now, but I can find the post, if you so need it.
2. At that point we were on around Page 10/11, and lots of people (including you) were relatively unknown.

All of this leads to...

3. Having a

long

Day 1 is entirely in the town's interest in this instance. There are, perhaps, exceptions to this, but this game is

not

one of them.

Let's continue, shall we? What exactly is the

disadvantage

of replacing her? Turning that around, what are the disadvantages of replacing her?

None.

Yup, there are officially

no

disadvantages of replacing Yvonne rather than lynching her.

Meanwhile, the disadvantages of lynching her...

1. Short Day 1 with little info.
2. Oh, golly gee, she might actually have been town!

Because as far as I can tell, people wanted her replaced for having a playstyle they disliked rather than any valid, credible reason like inactivity (she was quite obviously actively lurking since she responded to prods) or rule-breaking or such.

I'm assuming you glazed over the bit where Yvonne

asked

for a replacement then?

That's why I think it was stupid to ask for that, because she hadn't done anything worthy of replacement. What she had done, however, was worthy of suspicion and possible lynching, and instead of that, we were denied a (probable, imo) scum lynch because people wanted her replaced and got their wish.

Can you say "opportunistic"?

I've had this argument with xtoxm as well. Neither of you have been able to come up with anything except continual blubbering. The only defence I have had is:

She's scum, so let's just lynch!!!!!

I'm sorry if the tone of this post seemed rude, Dizzy, it wasn't meant to be.

@Marmalade: You read my post entirely wrong. Not your problem, I just write weird. I was blaming neko, not for the pressure but for the encouraging of being replaced. I wanted Yvonne pressured. I didn't want her replaced. There was no reason for replacement but neko saw fit to give it his OK. Why?

I'm not sure I follow this at all. Can you clarify?

Also, neko, I completely agree with your case on Snix. I'd like to, however, ask something. You say Snix and Dizzy have the same opinion about replacing Yvonne. Why didn't you include xtoxm, whom I had a rather obvious argument with a few pages back? That seems odd.

[Marmalade]

Long days are not advantages to town.

But they do get quite boring. Especially when the posting frequency is low.

You know, I don't really care who's lynched anymore.

unvote, vote: xtoxm

[Marmalade]

Oh, okay.

Dizzy -- I was only looking at what happened

after

Yvonne requested replacement. Evidently I need a re-read to see what else was going on. As far as I can recall, the main debate took place after she requested replacement, but I could be wrong, of course.

Re-read needed. *Grumble*

[Marmalade]

Ah, yes. The cop claim. How... expected. I eagerly await the counter-claim that seems the next logical step, so that we may decide which cop claimer is real.

scum?

Fos: Dizzy

Dizzy, has it ever crossed your mind that Ecto might be

innocent

?

Not sure if Ecto's play was the correct one, but I don't really have any reason to doubt him at this stage.

Even if you are a cop, I feel the best play for the town at the moment is to lynch you and find out whether you are or not. That way, if for some shocking reason you do come up cop, we can lynch ThAdmiral and get rid of scum.

Major Fos: Dizzy

This could only come from scum -- there is no way that a townsperson would

ever

come up with such a plan.

Haven't checked the vote count in a while, but if it was safe enough, I would vote ThAdmiral. The reason I am not going to yet is because he needs to weigh in before we do anything.

[Marmalade]

OK, so explain the way you're looking at it so I can understand your point of view.

Agreed. It's meaningless to just make such bland statements. You

need

to explain why.

I'll just wait until Day Two when we can lynch scum Ecto. Well, either that, or the scum get the bonus of a town lynch in the unlikely event that Ecto comes up as town, since I'm assuming that people like Cephrir will go straight for an Izzy lynch. and waste the day.

I don't really know where to begin with this post. I'll just point out that the beginning is ridiculous planning ahead, which is another clear scum tell.

If ThAdmiral didn't have a guilty investigation on him, I would be voting for you now. (I did think originally the case against you was weak, but your responses after Ecto's claim have just been too scummy.)

ThAdmiral has posted on site various times after Ecto's claim, yet not here. This is definitely giving me more confidence that he is scum.

[Marmalade]

unvote, vote: ThAdmiral

Don't really see any reason to keep this going any longer, to be honest.

[Marmalade]

Dizzy, Cephrir's attitude may perhaps not be the best, but he is

right

. If you are town and see you are about to be lynched, you should give some thorough suspicions so those still alive can use them later. Town doesn't benefit at all from leaving behind no information, whereas scum benefits enormously (since it means less info to gauge who their buddies are).

[Marmalade]

I'm still here and still up for a Dizzy lynch. Still want perfect to input.

[Marmalade]

Still want perfect to input.

Xtoxm, you will apparently never understand the value of letting days fully play out.

Either that, or the value is non existant.

This is so flawed, I could write an article about it. Want me to?