Micro 735: Greater Idea (Day 2 Begins)

Micro Games (9 players or fewer). Archived during the 2023 queue overhaul.
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Post Post #10 (isolation #0) » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:15 am

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VOTE: srceenplay
Trying to get an earlier wagon started? Eh?
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Post Post #18 (isolation #1) » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:43 am

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I was so tempted to hammer
VOTE: Vonflare
For putting someone at L-1 without announcing it
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Post Post #25 (isolation #2) » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:54 am

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In post 20, Srceenplay wrote:VOTE: Whymafia

Why so tempted? That doesn't sound like Town mentality.
Memes
I've never seen a page 1 quick hammer and it would've been funny. Why else xd
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Post Post #65 (isolation #3) » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:49 am

Post by WhyMafia »

In post 64, Agent Sparkles wrote:Srceenplay, why are vonflare and WhyMafia scum?
In post 25, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 20, Srceenplay wrote:VOTE: Whymafia

Why so tempted? That doesn't sound like Town mentality.
Memes
I've never seen a page 1 quick hammer and it would've been funny. Why else xd
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=71181
.... wow
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Post Post #78 (isolation #4) » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:20 pm

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In post 69, Srceenplay wrote:I'm going to add that I'm a gut player. That's how I get my reads.

Whymafia saying he's tempted to hammer doesn't sit well with me as something a town would say.
His explanation for the funnies sounded fake.
So what's my scum motivation for saying that
Or do you think I scum slipped
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Post Post #84 (isolation #5) » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:20 pm

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In post 80, Keychain wrote:
In post 73, Chickadee wrote: From my experience playing with creature, he hates rolling scum and is disinterested. Given the choice, as he very well could have been in this set-up, I believe he'd pick town.
Interesting. But if he likes playing mafia/teamscum (is there a term for this?) more than he likes SK, he might have picked it anyway.


UNVOTE:
VOTE: WhyMafia
Unnecessarily defensive on the hammer comment. Srceenplay and Chickadee are coming across well though.
I mean I'm genuinely confused
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Post Post #85 (isolation #6) » Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:21 pm

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In post 20, Srceenplay wrote:VOTE: Whymafia

Why so tempted? That doesn't sound like Town mentality.
Here he says it doesn't sound like town.
In post 72, Srceenplay wrote:I don't think he had any motivation for the first remark. I thought of it as something off the cuff.
Here he says I have no motivation

So um :?
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Post Post #105 (isolation #7) » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:17 am

Post by WhyMafia »

UNVOTE: All
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Post Post #106 (isolation #8) » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:17 am

Post by WhyMafia »

I TR Von
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Post Post #107 (isolation #9) » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:21 am

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In post 87, Kairyuu wrote:Time for some setup math. Fair warning, some of this will be subjective, so take that however you want.
Using the list of roles in on the wiki page for this setup, I've split the possible options as follows:

1) There are 66 positive (or at least neutral) town cards including vanilla townie.
2) There are 19 negative town cards (eg. Black Goo, Lynchbait, the different miller variants).
3) There are 21 cards aligned with the mafia (including saulus).
4) There are 18 cards aligned with the werewolves.
5) There are 9 cards aligned with the aliens
6) There are 9 cards aligned with the replicants.
7) There are 2 cards aligned with the cult
8) There are 4 serial killer cards
9) There are 2 lyncher cards
10) There are 3 survivor cards
11) There are 2 effectively random alignment cards (the wild card and the underdog).

The assumptions that I am making moving forward are as follows:

A) Any negative town roles would be discarded unless the person in question is offered two (eg. when offered miller and mafia goon one would select mafia goon)
B) Vanilla roles would be discarded over roles with positive power of the same alignment (eg. when offered vanilla townie and doctor one would select doctor, and when offered mafia goon and mafia doctor, one would select mafia doctor, but when offered vanilla townie and mafia doctor this assumption does not apply).
C) Negative roles would be discarded over vanilla roles of the same alignment (eg. when offered hirsute goon and mafia goon one would select mafia goon)
D) The compulsive bodyguard survivor card would never be willingly taken.
E) When selecting between competing antitown roles, power roles would be selected over vanilla versions (eg. when offered werewolf and mafia doctor, mafia doctor would be selected).
F) When selecting between two competing antitown roles, if both have power or are vanilla, the one with higher odds of a partner would be selected (mafia>werewolf>alien=replicant>solitary roles)
G) The remaining survivor roles would not be selected over anything but negative town roles.
H) Town power roles would be selected over vanilla town.

Now let's take a look at our game.

We had 0 negative town roles discarded. From A) it can be concluded that 0 negative town roles were offered. The entirety of category 2) can be disregarded and from D) and G we can remove category 10). We've also had 0 negative antitown roles discarded, so we can remove 2 mafia cards and 2 werewolf cards. Adding that to a lack of wild card discard (which would have been shown if it had been selected), and the actual discarded cards (2 mafia, 3 positive town, 1 alien, 2 werewolf, and 1 serial killer) and we can eliminate a total of 36 of the 155 starting cards, leaving 119 possible cards to work with broken up as follows:

1) There are 63 positive town cards
2) There are 17 cards aligned with the mafia
3) There are 14 cards aligned with the werewolves
4) There are 8 cards aligned with the aliens
5) There are 9 cards aligned with the replicants
6) There are 2 cards aligned with the cult
7) There are 3 serial killer cards
8) There are 2 lyncher cards
9) There is 1 random alignment card

From here I'm going to go ahead and disregard the possibility of the underdog being in the game because at a <1% chance I don't think it statistically significant to include it, and the ending alignment is random depending on who dies first anyway, so it changes the numbers by basically 0 to ignore it. The lynchers can also be ignored as their existance is meaningless in terms of the game ending (unless we're using the lyncher version when a lyncher win ends the game, but I doubt that).

That leaves us with 116 cards, of which approximately 46% are antitown. This means that STATISTICALLY SPEAKING this game consists of 5 town players and 4 antitown roles in some combination. Interesting note. If this distribution is what we actually have, and all of the non-town players happened to get the same faction then it is possible for us to be in lylo right now. Doubtful, but possible.

We can extrapolate further for individual players as well using my assumptions from above (to which I am adding another assumption that the player in question was not offered duplicates of the same role in the 3 instances where the discarded card has at least one more copy in the deck than was discarded):

Keychain: Discarded Mafia Goon. This eliminates vanilla mafia and vanilla werewolf, leaving town (57.8%), mafia power role, werewolf power role, alien, replicant, cult, and serial killer (total 42.2%).

Chickadee: Discarded Tourist. This eliminates nothing, leaving town (54.3%) and all possible anti-town factions and roles (45.7%)

vonflare: Discarded Alien Vanillaiser. This eliminates vanilla mafia and vanilla werewolf with the same remaining possibilities as Keychain.

Vaxkiller: Discarded Werewolf. This eliminates vanilla werewolf, leaving town (55.8%) and the same antitown options as keychain plus vanilla mafia (44.2%)

Creature: Discarded 2-shot Bulletproof Serial Killer. This eliminates nothing as the remaining 3 serial killer types are different enough to be considered distinct here. Same odds as Chickadee.

WhyMafia: Discarded Mason Lover. This eliminates nothing, leaving the same results as Chickadee and Creature.

Agent Sparkles: Discarded Vigilante. This eliminates vanilla town and the one-shot vigilante (due to same power but weaker version), leaving non-vig town power (48.5%), and all possible antitown roles (51.5%)

Kairyuu: Discarded Mafia Goon. Exactly the same as Keychain.

Srceenplay: Discarded werewolf Roleblocker. This eliminates vanilla werewolf and vanilla mafia. Same results as Keychain, vonflare, and Kairyuu.

Only particularly interesting statistic to pull from that is that due to the discard Agent Sparkles has a slightly above 50% chance of being anti-town.

That took far longer than expected.
What was the point of this whole post? I don't intend to be rude, but this ... doesn't really do much?
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Post Post #113 (isolation #10) » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:32 am

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In post 111, vonflare wrote:no, this happens in every game of great idea and its variants. someone makes a giant wall of text explaining the probability of each role corresponding to each person, ultimately resulting in no important information due to WIFOM.
Can you give some links? I am waiting for his specific answer, because it has pinged me as scum indicative
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Post Post #132 (isolation #11) » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:02 pm

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My town read on Von is gut. He seems genuine in his posting and doesn't seem to have a hidden agenda.
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Post Post #133 (isolation #12) » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:03 pm

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In post 114, Vaxkiller wrote:
In post 111, vonflare wrote:no, this happens in every game of great idea and its variants. someone makes a giant wall of text explaining the probability of each role corresponding to each person, ultimately resulting in no important information due to WIFOM.
Do you find it AI?
@Vax why did you ask Von this when I stated in the previous post that I was waiting for Kairyuu to answer? It gave him time to see what others thought about the wall and post something that would look good. FoS
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Post Post #137 (isolation #13) » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:07 pm

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In post 134, Keychain wrote:Kairyuu can only post infrequently, as he stated in his initial post, so he already had time to gauge responses. And "why did you do that" was a pretty standard question after that maths wall, I asked it as well in 89.
Well you made no indication that you were actively on to something. Asking why someone did something doesn't have to come from town trying to find scum. It can be the simple question of what's the point from curiosity's standpoint.
In post 134, Keychain wrote:Do you think that Kairyuu changed his answer to your question because of Vax's interference? I don't. Seems an odd direction to be looking for scum, when the only reason it would incriminate Vax is by being in the same faction as Kairyuu and also not believing Kairyuu had enough information to suitably respond to your question - both of which are kind of a stretch.
It's a stretch yes, but I still wanted to gauge comments and reactions. The game seems to be stalling at the moment after all. It still sidesteps the question of why he felt the need to interfere with something I was pursuing. It's a weak correlation, but something that pinged me and that I took note of. How else should I be looking for scum? If there's not much in the game, one should dig deeper. Why are you so jittery?
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Post Post #140 (isolation #14) » Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:54 pm

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In post 138, Keychain wrote:Stalling the game by trying to inhibit discussion - which is what you did, by suggesting that the topic should be not spoken about until Kairyuu responded - is a tactic that only benefits scum.
Now you're twisting my words. I never said for people to not discuss Kairyuu, I never even said not to discuss anything. I just found it slightly scummy that Kairyuu was subtly being given a way out. In fact, it gave me more things to judge for reads, and look where we are now :lol:
In post 138, Keychain wrote:Why would you FOS someone for asking a related question instead of following up on that thing that pinged you about Kairyuu and the answer he gave? That would be digging deeper and I'm not sure why you haven't done it.
I'm not sure if you're trying to waste our time by going back on previous content. You're subtly telling me to re-read his post, but a lack of a subsequent reply to his reply showcases that I wasn't bothered, does it not? In case it didn't, I found his response to be towny.
In post 138, Keychain wrote:Regarding being jittery - I am kind of a jittery person in general, but I think you might be referring my attempts to get the game out of this slow point? It worked, though. Three unique people responded in under half an hour!
IDK, but this is giving me huge scum pings. Why are you looking to get town cred like that? You are blatantly lying. The only person who you got to respond to Creature, and even then, it was something that you didn't follow up on/it didn't make a huge impact. It's just making people look at you at a more positive light
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Post Post #160 (isolation #15) » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:02 pm

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In post 152, Creature wrote:
In post 143, Kairyuu wrote:Does this mean your read on him was null, or scum? If null, why does that deserve a vote? If scum, what made you think that?
Null-scum. Even if he was null, sometimes I would treat nullreads as scumreads if I had multiple townreads.
So why do you town read others? You're complaining about so called "lurkers" yet you've just skated by
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Post Post #162 (isolation #16) » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:05 pm

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In post 144, Keychain wrote:I'm referring to posts 135, 136 and 137 in response to my 134, not sure what you're talking about? I mean I realise I was slightly wrong with my half hour thing, your post was actually two minutes outside, but I wouldn't call that a blatant lie.
And an active game is a good game for everyone. Do you really think people gave me towncred, when you did the opposite?
I mean you said that in response to my comment. Why would you care about being scum read by your own scum read? Seems fishy, as if you know I'm town. You'd have had to forget that there are other anti-town factions though .. which might've happened considering you skipped mafia goon.
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Post Post #163 (isolation #17) » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:06 pm

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In post 143, Kairyuu wrote:Please address my case against vonflare. I feel he is quite scummy and have posted my detailed reasoning as to why. If you have a townread on him then that would imply you don't find my case to have merit, and I'd like to hear why.
Currently it's just gut as I said earlier, I can't really put words to it yet sorry
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Post Post #165 (isolation #18) » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:07 pm

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In post 146, Kairyuu wrote:WhyMafia's 140 includes a comment that I'm interpreting to mean that he thinks rereading is a waste of time. This seems very strange to me. Are rereads not a thing anymore?
Why did you not directly ask me this? I ask you what caused you to make this assumption.
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Post Post #169 (isolation #19) » Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:14 pm

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In post 144, Keychain wrote:Indeed, here we are, with this great discussion going on
My goodness I'm a serial word twister / misrepper, my apologies. What I mean regarding not discussing Kairyuu is that I found Vax's question to be so unrelated to your question - like the only thing it had in common was that it also mentioned Kairyuu's super long post, it wasn't even addressed to you or Kairyuu - that it seemed that you were trying to shut down that topic.
I mean I had said I was waiting for Kairyuu's response to give myself more of an understanding if it's scummy, then Vax basically goes and asks someone else if it is and why. It just pinged me as scummy in correlation to Kairyuu.
In post 144, Keychain wrote:Do you think that you found Kairyuu's response towny because of Vax's interference? Like Vax actually did give Kairyuu an out? If so, your reaction makes a lot more sense.
It just seemed weird that Vax did what he did. Something to be noted if one person flips. The response itself seemed towny for tonal and gut reasons. I'm not sure of what to make regarding Vax yet

@Kairyuu I realize what you meant now. Re-reads are of course a thing, but I felt that there was plenty of new content to be discussed, and that going back to why I dropped my light push on you seemed a waste of time/a way to slow the game, especially as I viewed the reason as obvious
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Post Post #205 (isolation #20) » Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:34 am

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In post 184, Keychain wrote:WhyMafia, why aren't you voting me if I'm giving you "huge scum pings"?
because i'm confused about this game. I TR you rn though after I just re-read some stuff
In post 204, Vaxkiller wrote:Took me forever to figure out where you were talking about here, but now I think I see... understand, no, but I see where you are talking about.

Whats the difference if I ask him if he thinks its AI or not? How does that change the info you are waiting for at all?
In my head it gave Kairyuu a better way to respond to it as he had more stuff to make a comment that seemed towny.

I also like Creature for town

Can we lynch Vax?
In post 166, Vaxkiller wrote:Why mfai (since your hear) is vonflar=town a meta read?
No. I've never played with him. It's gut

VOTE: Vax
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Post Post #257 (isolation #21) » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:04 am

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In post 232, Keychain wrote:That back-and-forth ended more amicably than I expected. What did you reread and why did it change your mind so much? Seems suspicious that you'd just drop it after I switched my read on you.
@Keychain where you pointed out how everything I said was flawed when I accidentally interfered with Creature. I realized my whole premise was messed up and just gfitu4tfg4tfgt4v. I re-thought stuff and you seem to be genuinely game-solving.
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Post Post #258 (isolation #22) » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:05 am

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I'll go with Chick if we get near deadline. A brief skim of her ISO didnt reveal anything promising. We can go Vax tomorrow seeing as his wagon probably wont gain enough traction in time
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Post Post #259 (isolation #23) » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:06 am

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@Chick please claim next time you get on
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Post Post #261 (isolation #24) » Tue Aug 08, 2017 5:10 am

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Lmao
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Post Post #680 (isolation #25) » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:44 am

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I had something pop up IRL right before deadline. I'm sorry about that. But Creature, that's a very weak reason to vote someone in a game where this lynch is vital.
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Post Post #681 (isolation #26) » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:46 am

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I feel as if either Chick or Vax should be the lynch
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Post Post #682 (isolation #27) » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:47 am

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Keychain is town

Creature and Mulch I am currently iffy about
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Post Post #720 (isolation #28) » Sat Aug 12, 2017 6:33 am

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VOTE: Chickadee
Mother of cases Keychain XD
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Post Post #743 (isolation #29) » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:44 am

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In post 738, Creature wrote:For some reason I felt like he was posting elsewhere and not here.
Was busy getting my game ready sorry :oops:
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Post Post #744 (isolation #30) » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:45 am

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I'm pretty sure we'll have another day phase
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Post Post #745 (isolation #31) » Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:46 am

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Creature, why did you vote chick of you SR me and think we lost?
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Post Post #757 (isolation #32) » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:12 am

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Wooooo
gg everyone
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Post Post #782 (isolation #33) » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:09 pm

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In post 778, Keychain wrote:I'm nominating it for Kodak moment. It was brilliant and at least deserves a nom.
Definitely deserves it
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