Mini 1937 ~ Girls ♥ Girls 2: Mini's Apartment ~ Endgame

[nancy]

Votecount 1.17

Spiffeh (4)

~ NoticeMeSenpai, Ginngie, camn, Caryatid

MaxwellPuckett (2)

~ Prism, Heartless

camn (2)

~ Ahsoka Tano, Spiffeh

Prism (1)

~ Kmd4390

Ahsoka Tano (1)

~ VNB National Plan

Ginngie (1)

~ MaxwellPuckett

Not Voting (2)

~ Imperium, Polar Vortex

13 alive ~ 7 for majority.
Deadline Meter:

52%

[Spiffeh]

As much as I agree, I also disagree. Hydras are a joining of personalities, but dissonance happens. Hydras are more a dual personality extension tha an alt. You have to work things out else there will bw no agreement. And with some hydras, like Heartless, it is obvious who is in the hydra and who is talking. With new or unknown hydras it is definitely better to have heads in the sig.

Why are we on about this though when it is completely NAI?

Oh, also, I know you, Heartless. Is this not as weird as Caryatid knowing you?

I really don't like that in the face of being very behind, this is the stuff Ahsoka chooses to respond to.

I can totally see a weak scum player see me blowing up and do the bare minimum to go unnoticed and let me bury my own grave.

[Polar Vortex]

Polar Vortex do you have any scum reads at the moment?

Both heads have different scumreads at the moment. We're working on them and will give reads together soonish. My better head has town reads on all of the Spiffeh wagon. I currently don't have reads on any of then, but the way the wagon is going I'm sure there should be at least one scum there. Probably not Ginngie since my interaction with her earlier on gave me a good impression
~Bear

[Polar Vortex]

As much as I agree, I also disagree. Hydras are a joining of personalities, but dissonance happens. Hydras are more a dual personality extension tha an alt. You have to work things out else there will bw no agreement. And with some hydras, like Heartless, it is obvious who is in the hydra and who is talking. With new or unknown hydras it is definitely better to have heads in the sig.

Why are we on about this though when it is completely NAI?

Oh, also, I know you, Heartless. Is this not as weird as Caryatid knowing you?

I really don't like that in the face of being very behind, this is the stuff Ahsoka chooses to respond to.

I can totally see a weak scum player see me blowing up and do the bare minimum to go unnoticed and let me bury my own grave.

Agree on that. Ahsoka would do exactly did if she had a partner push you hard

[Heartless]

Antihero doesn't owe you anything and your manipulation displeases me.
I'll have more to say about camn later but I will go ahead and say I liked where camn's head was in the early-game Ginngie exchange following the self-vote hence my townread and the recent proceedings haven't done anything to change that.

if u have something to say, use your words and say it

a dismissive eye roll is just douchey. don't do that. you're better than that.

[Heartless]

As much as I agree, I also disagree. Hydras are a joining of personalities, but dissonance happens. Hydras are more a dual personality extension tha an alt. You have to work things out else there will bw no agreement. And with some hydras, like Heartless, it is obvious who is in the hydra and who is talking. With new or unknown hydras it is definitely better to have heads in the sig.

Why are we on about this though when it is completely NAI?

Oh, also, I know you, Heartless. Is this not as weird as Caryatid knowing you?

I really don't like that in the face of being very behind, this is the stuff Ahsoka chooses to respond to.

I can totally see a weak scum player see me blowing up and do the bare minimum to go unnoticed and let me bury my own grave.

agreed with this

[Spiffeh]

I feel like I'm being overly scrutinized for the

[redacted]

est shit (not just by you guys) while camn and Gin are just allowed to sit pretty on my wagon and when I try to point out how awful their play is I'm dismissed for equally

[redacted]

shit

[Spiffeh]

Like I'm starting to maybe come around to the fact that Gin is just really bad at mafia and is more avoiding reevaluating me out of stubbornness than malice

I still think camn's play around me has been uncharacteristic of her which is why I switched my vote to her

[Ginngie]

Like I'm starting to maybe come around to the fact that Gin is just really bad at mafia and is more avoiding reevaluating me out of stubbornness than malice

I can understand your anger at me, but what could you possibly have against the horse I ride on?

[Kmd4390]

Ok, let's see if I can bang this all out in one night.

Yeah that was a pretty good post from kmd. I think you're offtrack on Ginngie, but this is my 3rd rodeo of hers so I'm used to it.

I actually don't like this. Without reasons why you like it, it seems like you either went "oh a lot of words" or "the guy who hasn't been here posted so it's good" and it comes off as trying to say what you think a general consensus would be rather than a genuine thought.

As far as me being drunk the night of my birthday, sorry but I don't play it up and pretend to forget that a backspace key exists

like other people.

You're right-I was well in control; but it really doesn't matter how much I've had, it's a true statement. I wasn't playing up my drunkenness, only stating that it wasn't like my play was going to tighten up. It's an invitation to interact, not to townread me. Decide for yourself how control I was in then.

I don't know you aside from this game and the bolded is why it stood out. People WILL do that.

Can you explain the desire to lynch Spiffeh? I still see basically no real reason behind it. Closest I've seen is his lack of reads, but I don't see much reason to think there's this immediate, AI need for that.

This is where I am on the Spiff wagon. People act like it's the obv lynch and definitely a scum lynch, but I don't get why.

I don't like the.. like fake "I have something to do.. but I am waiting for CERTAIN CONDITIONS" thing.
What is that? And then the conditions... it's nothing game-related, but just 'lemme hear from Tammy and TTH'?

Its more like- Im gonna lurk like crazy, and hopefully soft some nonsense so I can get away with it for a while.

Do you think he'd keep it up as scum even after being wagoned for it?

kmd's long post is super-null. It's going back to early game stuff to discuss set-up spec, it doesn't really progress the game, then it throws shade at Prism for being drunk (which is like, the lowest blow, what's wrong with drunkposting yo?). The only good part to us is critiquing Spiffeh-wagon but frankly everyone should be doing it so it's an easy target. No moving forward with reads here.

-It's early game stuff because I haven't read later stuff yet.
-My issue wasn't with Prism being drunk (seriously, wtf). It was Prism saying (paraphrased) "Hey I'm drunk so talk to me because I'll be sloppy as scum or genuine as town". It feels like an attempt to get people to talk and get town reads because they talked to "genuine town drunk Prism".

ok... has it ever occurred to you that the reason you haven't ever actually SEEN it is bc it's not actually based on anything real?

in md ppl talk about how vigs should shoot lurkers but the overwhelming majority of the time in practice, vigs shoot their scumreads (and why wouldn't they? you draw vig rarely what's the fun in just taking a flamethrower to lurkers?)

but ok that's kind of tangential to the point. you think it was THAT tinfoil that you think only scum would question mastina's claim?

i don't (and in fact i think the opposite)

I actually agree with you about MD vs in practice. But I feel like if someone said in a scum PT "Hey guys I'm gonna say I'm negative utility but not actually claim", there are a lot of people who would respond with "But aren't you worried about being a vig kill?' Or hell, even a policy lynch which I don't recall seeing ever happening in a game. The perception that something could happen can be enough of a reason for scum not to do something to trigger it. What do you think the scum benefit is to do what mastina did?

lmao this is such a great example of looking into a puddle and finding Atlantis

lmao this is such a great example of being unnecessarily dismissive.

___________________

Hitting submit before I reach prod range. Not done for the night yet.

[Heartless]

Heartless, can you summarize to me why you're voting Maxwell? I saw you guys arguing about meta and a vague read you posted on him before voting him, but I don't really get it.

will do this when i get to comp

coming back to this

i think their entrance to the game is awkward and the two haphazard reads they does throw out (prism-town, ahsoka-scum) seems to me like they're kind of thrown out there to look like they have reads. even the mealy-mouthed qualifications on the ahsoka read Post 450 read a lot more like filler than a genuine attempt to try to grab onto a conclusion. you can point to them being sick and whatever and that's fine but they obviously were keeping up well enough to chide ginngie on the self-vote so why is there nothing else other than throwing out two low-risk reads? idk it's a weak entrance to me.

the other things that really sticks in my craw is this:

Why is it reasonable?
It seems like an arbitrary excuse to lurk, and I would bet $1 he doesn't actually have shiz to say after they 'weigh in', which, especially considering they are both HALVES OF A HYDRA. It may or may not ever happen.. or maybe already has happened... and we don't even get to know.

SO, like, wtf.

Why does spiffeh scum need to lurk instead of do shit, i dont remember him being bad.
Anyway that wagon sucks

Pedit oh hi

i don't like using that to dismiss the spiffeh wagon out of hand

in fact, i don't like them dismissing the spiffeh wagon out of hand at all. at that point the game, spiffeh was sitting on his ass and wagoning him is a legitimate method to try to pressure him into action / some sort of readable response. dismissing a spiffeh wagon feels to me like they either 1) KNOWS the wagon's on town and max can't help but let their omniscience seep through in their attitudes OR 2) they have reason to neg on the wagon because they're scum with spiffeh.

either way, i think this is coming from a scum pov.

i also think the ginngie push is lackluster (and, coincidentally, it provides a convenient reason to stop voting ahsoka...)

[Ginngie]

VOTE: Maxwell

[Ginngie]

yo, nancy, dumb isn't a word you redact. Don't do that.

[Heartless]

What do you think the scum benefit is to do what mastina did?

simple

to get town read

[nancy]

yo, nancy, dumb isn't a word you redact. Don't do that.

Please refer to the rules:

2 ~

Language use.

I will edit your posts to correct misgendering or to redact the use of slurs or any other offensive language without your permission.

~ Please try to avoid ableism. I'm not going to be making this comment on every post because that would be beyond annoying for you guys but "dumb" and "lame" are always going to be redacted if I catch them; there's nothing bad about being unable to speak or unable to walk in some way so using terms that describe those conditions to characterize something as bad is offensive in the same way that using "gay" as "bad" is offensive. Thanks! <3 ~

[Ginngie]

I'm not commenting until post game

[Polar Vortex]

yo, nancy, dumb isn't a word you redact. Don't do that.

Please refer to the rules:

2 ~

Language use.

I will edit your posts to correct misgendering or to redact the use of slurs or any other offensive language without your permission.

~ Please try to avoid ableism. I'm not going to be making this comment on every post because that would be beyond annoying for you guys but "dumb" and "lame" are always going to be redacted if I catch them; there's nothing bad about being unable to speak or unable to walk in some way so using terms that describe those conditions to characterize something as bad is offensive in the same way that using "gay" as "bad" is offensive. Thanks! <3 ~

Dumb has more definitions. One of them is a synonim to stupid. I think it was pretty clear from context that there was no offense against people who are unable to speak. And it is different than using "gay" as "bad" since the dictionary definition of gay does not include that meaning

~ I don't really want to write an essay about ableism here because it's not helpful at all to the game but I think that talking about dictionary definitions isn't helpful here. Dumb is synonymous to stupid in current usage because ableism is entrenched in our society and I would prefer not to have it in my game. I understand that you personally aren't insinuating that people who can't speak are less intelligent or boring or bad or whatever when you use the word dumb but the origins of the usage are that and being aware of the words we use is important because they're the same words that are used to hurt people in other contexts and that hurt carries outside of that context. ~

[Polar Vortex]

Ah well, your game your rules. There are other synonims of stupid that I can use. Hope there is no problem with that?

[Polar Vortex]

Yo Polar, what do you make of Spiff literally attacking and scumreading his entire wagon and never putting any focus anywhere else

Focusing the people on his wagon is natural. Scum reading the entire wagon, not so much, but I can understand why he'd do it. I do hope he sorts those reads better as time passes, because they can't possibly all be scum. pedit: oh look, #920 happened.

Here's the difference.

My shit tells are great because they're unique to each player and every scenario and they rarely let me down.

You're is a generalization that someone could read off a wiki

This is a... mafia cultural difference. We mostly play with alts, so our tells are more generalized (we can't use individual tells if we don't know who the individuals playing with us are), it also explains our aversion to meta.

[Polar Vortex]

Polar: Don't agree that town always attacks their wagon. We think Spiffeh is frustrated with the gamestate in general, we still don't think Spiffeh's scum.

Also, saying that scum voting for Spiffeh would have to be scum with Spiffeh

doesn't make sense (840 is very confusing.) We feel that his progression of anger towards his wagon developed naturally and makes sense from his pov even if we don't agree with the anger. (So basically we agree with you that he's town but not because town always does that)

I think you're mixing it up with this post.

I don't think if he was scum he'd still be the larges wagon and pretty much the only player being scrutinized, when there are people like Ashoka, Kmd, VNB, or even us, people with few posts, bad posts, easy targets for scum. The only thing that could explain scum not coming after them is that scum are fine with the current state of the game.

......or that some of those ppl you just listed ARE scum themselves.....?

why didn't that immediately occur to you?

Because they'd all have to be scum with Spiffeh. That would be a pretty large scum team...

Heartless, implies that maybe the people I mentioned as other easy targets for scum (Ashoka, Kmd, you...) could be scum, which would explain why the focus was staying on Spiffeh and not going their way. And I say, that could only be true if they were all scum, because if any one of them is town, there's no reason for scum to let the focus stay on Spiffeh instead of forcing it onto a town player. It really wouldn't have to be an easy target, scum could target any town player to stir attentions away from Spiffeh. If they are doing it, they're not trying hard enough.

Q-Q-Q-Q-Quadruple-Post! Sorry.

[Kmd4390]

Son of a...

I closed the wrong tab and lost my post. The real meat of it was just that I took Spiff's side of him vs Ginngie. Pocketing Mastina makes sense because of the links he provided and from my own point of view, my personal experience with mastina in WWF mafia where I was scum and mastina had me as such a strong town read that I constantly was referred to as a "mason buddy". I also didn't like Ginngie going all "I'm confirmed town" based on the reads of two unflipped players.

My eyes need a break. I'm on Page 24.

[camn]

nancy's house, nancy's rules.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MaxwellPuckett

[VNB National Plan]

Where did I say that town always attack their wagon? That's ridiculous

Looking back you're right, 'always' isn't what you said, just more likely. I believe the reason it stuck out was the blanketness of the read rather then the particular words.

"Ahsoka is scummy." "Yes, I see them as kind of scummy too." *leaves VNB lonely and sad*

If our other read is going to get traction I wouldn't mind voting there. (I believe Maxwell is at 5 now?)

[camn]

I count 4! Jump on board!

[nancy]