Open 62 - Strawberry Mafia - Game Over! before 568

[Snix]

Vote: Neko2086

for having a cat avi.

[Snix]

What an amazing intellect you have there.

[Snix]

unvote

Vote Snix

for trying to buddy up with me OR making a sarcastic comment to ridicule me

Aww, does this mean we can't be friends?

[Snix]

FOS: Near

Riddle me this Near, are you being serious with this?

[Snix]

Snix, are

you

serious with

that

?

All I'm trying to do is clear this things up. Tell me you can't look at what he's posted so far and be slightly suspicious.

[Snix]

That's why I FOS'd him instead of voting and asked him a question. Also, just because he's a newbie doesn't mean he is stupid. I'm sure that people can connect that just because I say I'm scum and people don't vote for me doesn't mean they are scum.

[Snix]

As for Snix, I agree with Cephrir's 22. It's not a question I would have asked myself, but his question cut through the BS nicely.

And I answered it.

I ask my question to get resaults. It worked. I'm happy.

[Snix]

Sarcasm on the internet is a little confusing and in a game like this being confused is not good. I'll tone mine down (I'm a huge offender of sarcasm).

[Snix]

I have a proposal. As an alternative to the Near-wagon, why don't we run up a scigatt-wagon? I think it could be quite informative.

Any takers?

What kind of information are you hoping to get out of scigatt by wagoning him?

also

unvote

@Peers: thoughts?

[Snix]

[quote="xtoxm]
Why Scigatt for a random wagon?

It is anything but random from my part.

What kind of information are you hoping to get out of scigatt by wagoning him?

Discussing that right now would defeat the purpose. The best thing to do is let it happen and draw conclusions later.[/quote]

Or you could not be so vague and explain some things.

[Snix]

Taking the opportunity to fix my tags. @ tags

Why Scigatt for a random wagon?

It is anything but random from my part.

What kind of information are you hoping to get out of scigatt by wagoning him?

Discussing that right now would defeat the purpose. The best thing to do is let it happen and draw conclusions later.

Or you could not be so vague and explain some things.

The only thing I'm willing to explain at the moment is why I feel a wagon on Scigatt is justified. That should be pretty obvious though. What information I hope to gain from the wagon should not be discussed. We don't want to tell the scum what we are or aren't expecting them to say/do, do we? Unless of course you're scum, then you'd love for me to tell you all that. Wagon (or not) now, conclusions later, mkay? I'll let ya know when I've found what I'm looking for.

So you expect us all to blindly follow you on a wagon against scigat? Can you at least give me a reason as to why him? I understand the not telling the scum the plan thing but it's not like you're anymore trustworthy then the rest of us. Others can follow if they want, I wont.

[Snix]

Neko, all I got from his posts is that he is newbie enough to tell us so and that hill make mistakes. He FOS'd near same as I did. I also notice that you've been on him since page 1.

[Snix]

Vote: Cephrir

Cephrir has, to me, done some very suspicious things. Most of his posts just seem very aggressive. I understand that aggression can help at times but he seems like he is just picking to pick. He seems to have hitched himself early on to the Scigatt bandwagon and followed Neko's lead, not contributing much to the inquisition except making an QFT post and leaving it at that. And the wagon had run it's course he quickly pulled a 180 and started claiming that Neko seemed to be trying to lead the town. That also seemed to be the most content filled post he's had so far. After that he carried on a pointless argument for much of page 4.

Why, Cephrir, carry on an argument you knew was pointless?

[Snix]

A possibility: a scum trying to act overly-righteous and townie. To me, you over-reacted to someone who "announced" that he's just trying apply some pressure. At the same time you didn't FOS him other than mildly qualifying his alignment as "it's not like you're anymore trustworthy than the rest of us". Doesn't this sound just too "I want to act like a townie" act.

Unvote

Vote Snix

Another, mildly more well founded, possibility: a person who doesn't like his hand forced on a whim.

He, out of nowhere, brought up the idea of the Sciggat-wagon. All I really wanted to know was if he had any foundation for getting someone near-lynch. So I don't think I over reacted.

Other than the fact that he seemed to realize he had a small following and took advantage of it I had nothing to be suspicious of. I stated my displeasure with the wagon, not the wagoner.

If I wanted to act like a townie wouldn't the better response be: "yeah, but lets keep him away from L-2 just in case." I want to act like me, it's worked in the past I doubt it will fail me now.

[quote"Near"]At the same time, you ignored my comment "let's get sniggat to L-2". Why? [/quote]

Because I've given up on commenting on every attempt you make at trying to hunt scum by being scum. If I were scum I'd know you weren't scum, right? So, wouldn't I dive in for the easy kill?

[Snix]

Way to not acknowledge that I just responded to your case, Snix...

You Were Next. I figured I'd try to stifle a vote on me before turning my attention back to you.

I love pressuring people to get reactions. It works really well. And by the way, agreeing with people (especially when they're so right it hurts) is not a scumtell. Especially if that player isn't dead and therefore more than likely isn't scum. You can't really criticize connections until/unless you know an alignment involved.

I'm not trying to connect you to Neko. Far from it; because Neko, ATM, seems very pro-town. What I was trying to do was point out the fact that you just seemed to have found an easy ride to pro-towndom and hoped on. That's all.

I never pulled a 180. The two stances, that scigatt could use some pressure and that neko's tone was that of someone trying to lead the town, are not contradictory or even related. Just because I agreed with neko earlier doesn't mean I have to continue to do so for the rest of the game. If someone you think is town does something a bit suspicious, are you going to not call them out on it because you think they're town? Not so much.

It's not the stances you took it's that fact that it was really obvious he was taking us by the hand and dragging us along before the wagon had ended and yet you jumped on without saying anything about it. When finally the wagon ends you seem to have a sudden revelation.

And the fact that that's my most contributive post doesn't matter. It's page 4, calm down.

But you criticize others for it.

Why not? Are you saying my carrying on an argument that was of little (but not no) significance is indicative of alignment? That's what it seems like, given that you start your post with a vote and follow with a list of reasons why you voted that way. And it wasn't entirely pointless, anyway. You'll notice I stopped arguing when I determined that it was disintegrating into a simple difference of opinion.

Because it was pointless that's why not. No, I'm saying it helped no one and did nothing.

[Snix]

Also, does anyone else get the impression that since the beginning escapade, Near has been playing *very* quietly, not saying much, staying relatively in the background? Maybe its just me, but I'm sensing something is amiss.

Yes, it seems a lot of people seem to have crawled into holes after the excitement died down. You on the other hand seemed to have crawled out. Anyways I think Near's disappearing act could be from him trying not to implicate himself farther. Or, like me, just not seeing anything really to comment on. I think right now the talkative people have picked a target and are just waiting for responses from them. The people being targeted have 'skipped town'. Anyways.

Near, I think you still have a vote on me. Any reasons?

[Snix]

However, I am curious about the fact Cephrir ignores what has been happening recently (e.g. regarding Yvonne) and has merely questioned Snix's vote in his most recent post.

I'd agree, but I think his question is in need of being answered. Snix's argument on Cephrir wasn't incredibly strong, and I'm not sure he ever answered Cephrir when he asked how his arguments actually pointed to him being scum. If Snix thinks Cephrir is scum, he ought to be telling us why so as to be productive, rather than just be voting for the sake of voting.

He answered my points to my satisfaction. So I left it at that. I didn't really have much to go on other then a feeling and those few small points. I know gut votes and very substantial so I tried to look for reasons why. My vote stays because the feeling stays.

Although Xtoxm's mild push for a deadline which would result in a no-lynch day one could possible hurt town just as much as a mis-lynch, if I'm not mistaken. Why, other than speed (not a very good reason IMO) would you want a deadline?

[Snix]

So Snix, you had an argument against Cephrir, which he addressed satisfactorily, but you still think he's scum anyway? Did I correctly assess that?

Yeah. It's really a feeling, which I hate to go by but I figure if he really is scum he might slip up again.

[Snix]

If we actually do pick someone to go after then I won't cling to my gut vote. As long as there is logic behind the lynch. Yvonne does seem like a decent target because, if for no other reason (while there are others) she's isn't pro-town productive.

Unvote

[Snix]

Well, maybe if we put some pressure on her she'll post a bit more/get less bored.

[Snix]

Vote Yvonne

Forgot to do that in my last post.

[Snix]

Sorry about your grandma Scigatt.

Other than a feeling to you have anything else to go on? I mean, I have feelings about Cephrir (har, har people. I have to learn to word things better) but I decided to put them on the back burner. If you had really solid 'evidence' then maybe we could refocus.

[Snix]

My vote is my contribution for the day. More of you should be like Scigatt...

Oh, well then. That clears that up. Now we can focus on more important things. Thank God you've contributed to the game.

/sarcasm

If you aren't trying to get lynched then I don't know what you're doing.

[Snix]

Yvonne, why do you feel that your vote and lack of consideration for any other lynch candidate is reasonable contribution for today? What do you think you are accomplishing, exactly? How do you expect the town to react to this?

In the meantime, I wouldn't suggest putting more votes on her. I personally would like to get her talking, and if she refuses, I'd like her to be replaced. I do not see her play helpful whether she is town or scum.

This gave me a really odd feeling. You seem to like killing momentum don't you? Give me a good reason for replacing her rather than lynching her?

[Snix]

What a lovely little triangle Scigatt, Yvonne, and Neko seem to have. Anyone else feel that?

[Snix]

My vote is my contribution for the day. More of you should be like Scigatt...

This, Yvonee. This quote right here makes me want to lynch you. If you were just inactive/lurking because you can't think of things to say or because you aren't very talkative I wouldn't be so gun ho about it. But, you seem to think that placing a vote on one person and disappearing as contribution for an entire day. It doesn't work like that. You have to explain more than because he started a random wagon.

He's been more Pro-town then you. At least by talking he gives us information about him if not other people by their responses to him. You too have been helpful but for very different reasons. If you are scum then you might have just fleshed out both of your scum buddies.

[Snix]

My rebuttal, also. HEY LOOK AT ME I'M POSTING.

Snix seems to be approaching this game with more concern about keeping as much attention off himself as possible.

If I didn't want people to notice me, if I truly was trying to keep attention off myself I wouldn't really attack a person who almost every one else thinks is town. That person being you. That would be like playing hide and go seek in a neon orange jacket.

-Early on, he made sure to defend himself before addressing Cephrir's response to his case, which isn't all too terrible, but somewhat important to note.

Why wouldn't I defend myself before going on the attack? To actually get people to listen to my ideas they shouldn't really think I'm scum trying to throw sand in their eye.

-He was voting Cephrir for a long time without much reason, which looks like voting for the sake of voting and looking active.

My Cephrir vote was a gut feeling. I figured if I had a vote on him he might do something to reassure that feeling. Something he wouldn't have done had he felt safe.

-When Yvonne made her less than impressive entrance, he criticizes her and says

If you aren't trying to get lynched then I don't know what you're doing.

which begs the question--if you think she's trying to get lynched, then why would you vote for her?

Why not appease the lady? If she doesn't want to act town then we shouldn't treat her like town.

-Snix accuses me of trying to stifle discussion and asks for a good reason to replace rather than lynch. I respond and ask for a good reason to lynch rather than replace. He never answers.

I figured Izzy's response fit my feeling well. An I agree post didn't seem necessary.

-Rather than answering my question, he tries to draw a connection between myself, scigatt, and yvonne, asking if anyone else sees the connection. Keep in mind that he never explains what connection

he

sees. So Snix, could you explain your rationale there?

Well, lets say Yvonne is scum. Now she seems to be speeding to the lynching party where she is the main attraction. If I were her scum friends I want very much to not have that happen just for the safety in numbers factor. Better a D1 town lynch then a D1 scum lynch right? So what can I do. I could defend her and hope to god she doesn't get lynched or I could push replacement for her. While still sticking in the occasional jab in case I don't get my way.

Then scigatt post his 'I agree' and I have the weird feeling I've stumbled upon the holy grail of scum hunting. Now if you couldn't see that connection then It makes me even more suspicious. But only a bit.

Warning Sarcasm Below

Now, your whole case seems to boil down to one thing. I don't want people to think I'm scum. I mean, why else would I defend myself and try to keep suspicion off of me. That seems like it's an obvious scum tell right? I mean it's not like that's half the job of town.

[Snix]

You're totally right. You would be voting somebody who everyone else thinks is scum...

I see what you did there. I'm not going to vote you or scigatt based on the fact Yvonne is scum if I don't know that 100%. I figure, work your way up the chain.

The problem is that she appears to be deliberately acting scummy. I don't like it either, and I've outlined why, but that in itself makes a pretty weak case, imo. If you're going to support lynching her, I would hope you've got more than 'well, she asked for it.'

It's the single-mindedness combined with the avoiding of the thread and the self-destructive nature.

As far as the Yvonne-scum possibility... a self-destructing scum is actually a wonderful bussing opportunity, not a situation in which you'd ask for replacement.

Or, that's what you want us to think!! (JK)

Now, what I really wanted to know about your case was if you had drawn this connection from recent posts or from the whole thread. How sure are you that you've found the entire scum-team from a few posts?

It's just a feeling backed up with a little evidence. Hence the asking if others felt/saw it too. I'd be more sure if I knew the alignment of Yvonne but that wont come unless we get a lynch.

[Snix]

Responding to a prod.

I'm not sure what to make of this game. Everyone seems to be playing safe. And many have requested for a replacement. I did a quick re-read and don't really have any idea. Therefore, I agree with xtomx and request we get a deadline of something like 3 weeks. This might not be the best thing for town, but I am wiling to yield a small disadvantage to get this game moving.

Near, you're part of the problem of the slow moving game. Your vote hasn't changed from p2 I believe and you seem to post little in the way of discussion. What is your take on the Yvonne incident or do you see anyone else more scummy, ie me seeing as how your vote is still on me?

[Snix]

Yvonne's request for replacement is odd. She had no problem with what she was doing right? She didn't think she wasn't contributing. Then why would she want to replace herself when she was active-ish and not in the wrong from her POV. Other than to do exactly what I said the replacement would do: take away the pressure and maybe even rectify the horrible play she's been giving us by making us all take the replacement as an entirely new person. I'm with Xtoxm on this one. It bugs me that she just gave into neko's wish for replacement.

[Snix]

Responding to a prod.

Unvote, Vote: The Admiral

Let's stir things up a bit. I will try to come up with why, but defend yourself you scum!

That's not really what I meant. I was looking for something more than a vote. Actual reasons might be nice. Something the rest of us can look on and go: "oh, wow. I never thought of that" or "that doesn't seem right" even "I'm glad he agrees with us" would have worked.

You, sir, are going on my list.

[Snix]

@Xtoxm - Why don't you just wear a T-shirt that says "I'm scum!"? Snix, you could wear the T-shirt that says "I'm with the goon" with an arrow that points to Xtoxm.

It's reasonable to backlash at the people who want you dead but you're predesesor had dug herself a deep hole and you aren't doing much to try and get yourself out of it. IMO

[Snix]

Read: "You're not doing much to get out of it... because you called me scum."

I could go for an Xtoxm lynch, but would still prefer ThAdmiral. Never did think Yvonne was scum, still don't.

What do you have against ThAdmiral? It's mostly just a gut feeling right?

[Snix]

257 is you disagreeing with an opinion on lengthy posts and the fact that he wants to live. And a gut feeling. Not much to go on.

I don't talk about him because he hasn't done anything worth noting. He's defended what little reasons Yvonne gave and didn't overreact to it.

[Snix]

2.

Snix and Xtoxm, why are you still voting Ectomancer?

Just because the replacement is smarter scum than the replaced doesn't mean he still isn't scum. And his posts really throw me off, but that's probably more of a personal thing. I'd also like to point out, although this could just be coincidence, that the Yvonne(ectomancer), Neko, Scigatt trio seems to all have jumped on Xtoxm.

[Snix]

EBWOP

everything below the question is my response. Must have typed in the quote tags.

[Snix]

I'd also like to point out, although this could just be coincidence, that the Yvonne(ectomancer), Neko, Scigatt trio seems to all have jumped on Xtoxm.

Snix, that trio theory of yours is positively silly.

I know it is, it just keeps cropping up. I don't want to be right by some horribly lucky chance and still ignore signs.

[Snix]

Snix, xtoxm, james, at some point, you'll have to make an argument that Ecto (not just Yvonne) is scum. Otherwise, your votes are useless. Yvonne can no longer answer questions.

3 people doesn't seem useless no matter how 'insubstantial' they're argument may be. The problem is that Yvonne is not here to answer questions I'm sure everyone wanted answered. Why? Because some few people decided it be a nice thing to do and go and get her replaced. She didn't need a replacement, she was there. She picked up prods, responded, wasn't inactive. Just lurking. When the pressure got too much though she was replaced.

I blame this mostly on you, because as a really loud member of the town you hold a bit of sway. So when you say she should be replaced it makes her being replaced a good thing. It's now what the 'town' wants instead of a ploy to remove pressure. Now her replacement is doing better in some cases but he has a bad vibe.

I am, I'll admit, voting Ecto because of everything Yvonne did. But I still feel she should have been lynched rather than replaced. And I'm not going to give Ecto a clean slate.

Back to you though. I agree with ThAdmiral. You never really take a lead you just prod and wait for the rest of the group to pick up the trail. Take a stance. I don't mean attack Xtoxm every single post but maybe move on to other people. If you think he's scum. If you're sure. Then put pressure on someone else vote-wise and keep building a case against Xtoxm and whoever you think is next scummiest.

[Snix]

@Marmalade: You read my post entirely wrong. Not your problem, I just write weird. I was blaming neko, not for the pressure but for the encouraging of being replaced. I wanted Yvonne pressured. I didn't want her replaced. There was no reason for replacement but neko saw fit to give it his OK. Why?

[Snix]

@marmalade: I'll try. Your post against me seemed to be based on the fact that you thought I was targeting Neko for putting pressure on Yvonne, while I had been doing the same. It is in fact for the exact opposite reason that I voted Neko. Neko seemed to be relieving pressure by asking for a replacement for her.

@neko: I'm not going to respond to attempts to work me into a corner. If I respond one way I'm sure you'll have "countless" accounts of me being contradictory. As that's the angle you seem to be playing.

[Snix]

PBP analysis of Ecto.

Post 291: Come in, odd comment about manipulation.

post 293: Votes Xtoxm, decent as he is defending himself. Points at Xtoxm and shouts 'he is scum because of what he said.' Doesn't really clarify what part. Might be going with the general dislike of xtoxm by town.

post 297: Defends himself well in first paragraph. Goes on to say that Yvonne wasn't in a hole. Asks me to give dimensions of the hole. Finds a MD topic that Yvonne might have been following. Seems to be trying to make Yvonnes actions look less scummy by giving them a pro-town application and then taking on the fact she just wasn't very good.

post 300: says this: [quote=ecto]Keep playing. You'll find out eventually. Are you wondering which way you need to lean to maintain your balancing act?[/quote]
Seems to be dodging the question about ThAdmiral. Attacks Sciggat for some odd reason.

post 302: when Cephrir weighs in about post 300 ecto seems to back peddle a bit but still doesn't really answer the question.

post 312: Ecto fos's dizzy foo inconsistency. Tells dizzy to stop hunting cop and then goes on to say that dizzy shouldn't vote for him because Yvonne fit her description of cop. Basically equating himself to be cop.

post 317: Says he wasn't claiming. Tries to link two things that don't make sense: a cop changing up strategy while trying to be singular in an attack and a cop knowing someone is scum and looking scummy in his/her attack. Don't see the connection. Regales us with some story about him hunting cop-claimers. Which seems mildly inconsistent with his no hunting cop argument.

post 321: either fos's himself for being too aggressive (I seriously doubt that) or misinterprets sciggat's dislike of the way he went after dizzy. I'm going with the second one because I'm sure he's smarter than that.

post 329: Mentions he hasn't done a full read through. Goes on to say his vote might look OMGUS but isn't. Votes dizzy. Puts he instead of she. (doesn't really matter IMO)

post 334: Devotes to paragraphs to bash Dizzy's dislike of being called a guy. Doesn't really address the real issue around it and instead just tries to make dizzy look like some over-reacting girl.

Summary
-Ecto likes to dodge questions
-Makes connections where there are none
-bread crumbs cop after telling dizzy to stop hunting cop.
-seems to generally dislike sciggat for no stated reason.
-bashes dizzy for being prideful of gender.

This is my case against ecto. I'm pretty sure he's scum. However Xtoxm continues to dig himself deeper. Once I see a vote count I probably will vote him. Ecto won't go anywhere.

[Snix]

Ah, yes. The cop claim. How... expected. I eagerly await the counter-claim that seems the next logical step, so that we may decide which cop claimer is real.

I'm pretty sure everyone's chimed in and no one's claimed yet.. Odd time to claim though Ecto. I was really sure about you. Meh. I'll just wait for ThAdmiral to respond.

[Snix]

if, by some stroke of luck, you survive night are you going to investigate dizzy?

[Snix]

I was essentially trying to figure out how suspicious he was of me. Bad way to do it, I know, but I didn't think it would hurt.

The question is, what now?

[Snix]

My motives were the same as your's James, I was looking for scum. Just a little bit harder than you. Isn't part of this game looking for connections? You have to admit you thought Yvonne was scum until Ecto replaced right? So, if she was scum, and we lynched her where would we be at then? We have to find connections. James, you're back-peddling so fast I'm afraid you might trip. I was wrong about Yvonne. But I stuck to my intuition. And when the people asked for a case against Ecto I got one, a solid one I believe.

What I want to know is why everyone seems so gun-ho about hanging me from the gallows.


p.s @Xtoxm: this is the part of the game where lynching town, even if they're letting the rest of us down, is not such a good idea.

[Snix]

The problem I see right now is that the town got split during day 1. Those that believed Yvonne was cop and those that believed Yvonne was scum. I have decided that, unless she does something horribly, horribly scummy or I'm really convinced she's scum I'm not going to vote dizzy. Why? Because she is being attacked for exactly the same thing I did and I feel I wasn't in the wrong for my suspicions. Right now her posts seem like someone who was hit across the face with a shovel and is trying to regain balance while the people with the shovel advance farther.

The push from cephrir and xtoxm to lynch dizzy seem very anti-town. And xtoxm was trying this yesterday too with the Yvonne wagon. Overall Xtoxm's play hasn't been very helpful. I'd be willing to lynch xtoxm today.

vote:xtoxm

[Snix]

Neko, there is a large difference from what you're doing and saying 'dizzy needs to die'. Which is what cephrir and xtoxm are doing.

[Snix]

That doesn't make it right or town, cephrir, he could just as likely be an impatient scum.

[Snix]

He was refering to the quote in my sig. If you so wish I can point you to where I quoted it from.

Given the circumstances, you could say i'm being impatient, yes.

Liking Snix less and less...

Glad to see my little tirade against you isn't garnering the wrong emotions.

[Snix]

I, on the other hand, do not and would like a case against me drawn up by tomorrow so that I might defend myself.

[Snix]

Tomorrow's going to be confusing if she comes up town.

[Snix]

What, really, has xtoxm done to prove his townie-ness. If he had had his way we'd be down a cop and a townie going into day 2 with nothing other than the yvonne wagon which insofar seems to be at least two town(based on the fact I know I'm town and dizzy posts at twilight don't seem like that of a dead scum.) He has been pushing for quick lynches and quick days.

I stayed on ecto because someone had to. He claimed at an odd time, there was almost instant backing from people who I thought were scumish, and personally I didn't buy it.

[Snix]

I've always thought cephrir is scum. I said that back on day one. It was just a feeling with nothing to go on so I focused on other people. Right now xtoxm is more dangerous than cephrir because so many people think he's town and are just letting him push quick lynches.

[Snix]

really, xtoxm? That's all you have?

Before anyone else posts a case against me I'd like you to do it, if that's too much to ask. Because so far you just seem to be playing follow the leader. How about you take some initiative.

[Snix]

Anyway, we'll continue this tomorrow, shall we?

Clearly i'm not going to be NKed as i'm you're lynch target.

We can continue this now, I don't mind.

Since when did the truth become horrible?

It is though. Day one started off with you giving short responses and pushing for a deadline. Then you went after yvonne (she was taking a lot of flak) and rode her until ecto replaced. After that you helped lynch ThAdmiral. Then you jumped on Dizzy (again she was taking a lot of flak) and pushed for her death while letting others make the case.

Even now you have yet to post anything real against me. That's why I requested that you be the first to post a case. Think of it as me helping you out.

[Snix]

I'm still waiting xtoxm. Give me something to defend myself against.

[Snix]

My thoughts are that xtoxm is scum and has been trying to quick-lynch people from day one. I bet, xtoxm, that once you realize that no one's going to lynch me you'll find someone else "scummier" (AKA easier) and go after them. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

[Snix]

if you could hold off until xtoxm actually post something substantial that would be nice, I'm trying to prove a point.

[Snix]

Alright, well I figure I've given xtoxm enough time to come up with an attack on his own. The rest of you, if you have one, can post yours now. Thank you for being patient.

[Snix]

First off I'll respond to your post, then I'll look at the people you've asked me to.

The Me & Near thing

was, I believe, just his play style conflicting with mine.

The Me & Yvonne thing.

You have to admit that there were really only two ways of looking at what she was doing: 1. She is really bad at being cop or 2. She is really bad at being scum. So far all the lynches/voting after ThAdmiral have been towards people who went with option 2. Two of those people even, after the claim, went along with the wagon. I'm pretty sure the only reason I'm alive right now is because dizzy was an easier target for the scum to quick lynch. Both Cephrir and Xtoxm wanted to kill her quickly without much discussion (which you agree is good for town), but I digress.

You started asking for her replacement in 217 after she had said all she was going to do that day was vote. She seemed to either want to be lynched or be replaced and you gave her the second option. I didn't see then and really don't see now why you would favor replacement over a lynch. You have to understand that I made the connection between you three because she seemed scummy to me, you gave her an easy way out and she personally put scigatt on a pedestal. Now I'm almost positive that neither of you two are scum.

After Ecto replaced you asked for a case against him, which I did give and which you quoted right below your statement saying I didn't. I still felt Yvonne was scum and Ecto just gave off a vibe (horrible reasons I understand that) that he was too. I must admit he replaced at a bad time for the wrong person and had a lot against him and had he not claimed we might have lynched someone else and then have had him NKed. I also must admit that I really had my vote still on him because I was way to prideful to drop it and if he happened to be lying be able to point at my vote and say "Told you so".

I never mentioned ThAdmiral because, like I said, I had nothing to comment on. I don't see how that was so bad given the way he played and the amount he talked.

The Dizzy and Me thing

I believed she was town. She followed the same logic I did on the yvonne/ecto debacle and, though her methods were very agressive, finally did come around and vote ThAdmiral. Which put me off when everyone then turned around and wanted to kill her instead of me or JTP. Especially Xtoxm, whom had been on our side in the ecto wagon until he claimed.

Cephrir

So far today and yesterday cephrir has been right behind xtoxm on pushing lynches. He's been giving out excuses left and right for xtoxm's rushed behavior.

Xtoxm

xtoxm's been riding other peoples coat tails since he got here. I gave him 2 days to come up with even a small case against me and he didn't. It's not like he wasn't on the site because he's posted elsewhere, in other games. He couldn't do it for a case against ecto or yvonne. Not even one for dizzy, which you claim was the scummiest person yesterday. He's always been pushing fast lynches, twice now on confirmed townies.

The fact that you didn't even mention the fact that even today he hasn't said one word of logic against me bothers me a bit. The closest he got was saying that I defended someone I thought was town. That doesn't seem so wrong with me. Just like you defended yvonne when clearly she was without a leg to stand on.

So

vote: xtoxm

.

I hope that if by some odd chance I do die today I would like xtoxm lynched tomorrow as my dieing wish.

[Snix]

you're uhm... reason?

OK.

Yeah, no sure. You win.

You are way better at this than I am.

I admit defeat.

[Snix]

You're welcome.

[Snix]

I meant you supported discussion.

Ah, I re-read it and you seemed to have linked the wrong post. You were talking about 458 but linked 450, which asked for a case. My bad.

Yes, that was sarcasm. But I don't know why you don't see what he's doing as scummy.

[Snix]

yes, she was playing horribly hence the easier target remark.

I meant unless they knew she was cop somehow. She was acting in a negative to town way almost like dizzy. I'd just figure they, if they were scum, would go along with a cop lynch and then just play it off as mob mentality. But they didn't, hence the thought that they are town.

Often, not always. Everyone is different. I don't think I should be lynched based on a few broad statements.

It was a feeling. Only way I can explain it. and after almost lynching cop I didn't want to do it again.

Today not so much pushing as giving excuses. I'm still going to call them excuses because anyone can fake a meta if they try hard enough and I don't think that just because someone acted this way in one game makes it all right for them to act like that in all of them. I also understand that yesterday was frustrating but you still could have handled it better.

I'm glad I'm finally getting through to someone.

[Snix]

That's a complete and utter lie. Meta me properly.

So if you always play like that then it wouldn't matter if you were scum or town, right? So I could still be right, right? And so far you've been pushing hard on two town lynches. One of them Cop. If this is how you always play though, coat-tail ridding and pushing for quick-lynches you might need to find a new game.

What I mean is that scum didn't quicklynch her neccessarily, it was a perfectly reasonable wagon for town as well.

Yes, but neither of you were really letting her defend herself. I'm pretty sure xtoxm even said flat out that we should just lynch her because "she needs to die".

Possible. Were they really the only ones advocating replacement? I don't even remember but I'd think everyone would have been.

It was basically Neko going "we should replace her" and everyone else smiling and nodding.

Lame excuse. Gut feelings can be a legitimate reason sometimes, but... come on.

I'll give you that. It's the only way I can explain it though. And trying to argue for or against me being scum based on believing her innocence is going to get into WIFOM pretty quickly.

1) I'm not making up a meta. I assure you, if I did, someone would notice. That would be a stupid gambit even if I were scum with Xtoxm.
2) I didn't say it was all right, just not as much of a tell because it's not out of the ordinary.
3) Meh, sue me.

I never said you were, just that you seemed very happy just stating the fact every time he seemed to be going over the edge again. It may not seem like a tell to you but advocating quicklynch on a known scum and pushing quicklynch just cause are different. He's been pushing for lynches without giving people anything to defend against.

I think you misinterpreted this:
I wrote:
However, I don't think my vote won't be going to Snix today.

Note the double negative.

Yes, but if I'm lynched today and you see you were wrong that at least my reasoning would be to go for xtoxm next. I hope it doesn't come to that and we can lynch correctly to make up for yesterday.

[Snix]

Well, right now we are at a standstill.

Perfect and SL need to either make more convincing arguments against each other or get off their high horses and actually help town.

[Snix]

I have gotten this notion that Snix(if he is scum) may have beenpullling a gambit on D2.

Go into detail, please. I mean, you've got to have

something

to say.

Well, it seems to me that while Snix made his intentions clear on D2, he might have not done all he could to stop the Dizzy lynch. Not that that means anything, it's just an observation.

The only thing I could've done at that point was claim I was scum and get lynched myself. What else do you think I could've done?

Also, do you have any reasons for this scum pairing you have?

[Snix]

Oh goody, this should speed up the game a bit...

[Snix]

Xtoxm, what made you think JTP was good?

Was it because he wasn't attacking you? Because so far you seem anti-anyone looking to lynch you.

The difference between EL and JTP is that EL is actually aggressive. And he's going after the person he thinks is scum.

[Snix]

Then answer the first question.

[Snix]

Did you have any reasons in particular?

[Snix]

EL is EL he's aggressive and he rubs people the wrong way. JTP was on the same wagon me and

xtoxm

were on against yvone and JTP left his vote on even through his claim (again like me) but he didn't really contribute much to the actual wagon. Me and Dizzy were more the leaders of that wagon. If he is scum he plays it just well enough that people don't notice him but that he doesn't seem to be lurking. If either I or Xtoxm get lynched today I'd like to look at him next. Nothing right now warrants a vote but at least one person on that wagon had to be scum and I know I'm not.

If I am lynched I'd like xtoxm and then EL/JTP looked at.

And I still want xtoxm lynched.

[Snix]

Nothings happened EL for me to comment on except your reaction to my bad words about your predecessor. Just seems a bit off there.

[Snix]

No no no. You're going about this all wrong. We don't lynch the person who promises substance we lynch the person who has been following others all game and voting without any reason at all.

[Snix]

I think there are still some questions left unanswered, however.

Like what?

[Snix]

EL, what you are doing right now is not helping anyone except xtoxm. If you're so sure xtoxm is scum (like I am) then stop playing the you'll see when I'm dead card and start actually contributing. Even I agree that your card flip will not confirm/deny my townieness.

[Snix]

No, Neko. I have no Idea what he's talking about.

Also, I'm pretty much screwed if xtoxm comes up town. I can't get out of a bad situation like this a third time.

[Snix]

Wait, I'm scum because I realize the situation looks bad... again after card flip?

[Snix]

Can someone explain to me the pros of a NL?

[Snix]

@SL: Sure it was scummy but it was true too.

@Neko: not of a NL, just of a quick NL. We'd esential be losing a day if that happened and I'd rather we at least try to look at lynch candidates. I will, how ever, vote NL if needs be.

[Snix]

Vote: Neko

For someone who has been so helpful and guiding he sure seems to survive night. One of two options, 1 he's scum or 2 giant WIFOM gambit by scum. Personaly I think it's 1.

[Snix]

unvote

You better have something good with the rereads or I'm right back on your case.

[Snix]

Vote No lynch

I would only put the vote back on you if I was certain you were scum and as such a quick lynch wouldn't be bad. That's not the case, I just wanted to know something.

What we really should be looking at though is those opposed to NL along with the people who just seem to not want to talk. This game has been plagued by lurkers.

There's a deadline right? How about we look at everyone individually until deadline. That way if there's someone who just pops out we go for a lynch if not we get our no lynch.

I'm getting tired of leading miss lynches.

[Snix]

That way if there's someone who just pops out we go for a lynch if not we get our no lynch.

This, like other statements made by snix today, strikes me as a lack of concern that we are in lylo. Here, what he says I somewhat agree with (though a NL will still help ease somebody's doubts on someone else, so I still prefer it), but it's how he says it that makes me nervous.

What makes you nervous? Is it the fact that if we get a really good scum candidate I'd rather lynch them? Or some other thing?

[Snix]

woah, woah. Anyone else notice night lasted about a minute..?

[Snix]

yeah, but pre-emptive No Kill? What would the point of that be?

[Snix]

Ceph, I've never really trusted you. Or Neko for that matter. I can really explain why except that you played the Yvonne thing very well for a townie. I know that kind of runs along the too town side of the arguement but it's how I feel.

If EL were scum I personaly think that I would be dead by now. I'm too easy a target to pass up for EL (who I know is quite good at these kinds of things).

When me and EL both voted Neko scum didn't jump on and quick hammer. Not one. Which means 1 of 2 things: 1 Neko is scum or 2 both me and EL are scum. Seeing as how I'm 89% sure EL is town and I know I'm town that really only leaves one option.

I still don't see how we're in any different a situation than yesterday so

Vote: No Lynch

[Snix]

I don't know if NL will help us, as the scum seem to have decided not to elminate anybody.

Then I say lets run them into the ground with No Lynch. What's the worst that could happen? You want to win right?

[Snix]

bah..

[Snix]

I came in here to say I told you so.

[Snix]

Lol, you were trying to get me lynched. But whatever. I was wrong, too, yes. I sorta wish I could have lynched you though

We were played. I did say I felt ceph was scum from day 1. Couldn't explain it, just felt it.