Mini 1939 - Organization XIII (Game Over)

[II Xigbar]

VOTE: Xaldin

[II Xigbar]

When you say investigative immune, what do you mean?

[II Xigbar]

So, ascetic but only with regards to investigative actions?

[II Xigbar]

VOTE: Xigbar
Also, I really should have found out whether or not the game would reveal all alts at the end. Oh well.

What's scummy about me wanting to clear up exactly how the claimed investigative immune worked?

[II Xigbar]

Investigative-immune, eh?
Sounds like a GF if ya ask me

Sounds like someone doesn't know what I'm claiming! If I was a Godfather a cop would get a town result on me~

And sure, if you want to say it in a totally confusing way. Immune to investigations, that's it. They just fail.

Yes, I understand what you mean.
My point is, semantics aside, Cops are useless on you, just like on a GF, albeit somewhat less powerful.
How does that help a loyal member of the Organization? It doesn't.

Therefore, you're a traitor.

Wait why are they a traitor as opposed to a full fledged scum member?

[II Xigbar]

Gotcha.

Larxene, if you were scum investigative immune, would you have claimed it?

[II Xigbar]

VOTE: Xigbar
Also, I really should have found out whether or not the game would reveal all alts at the end. Oh well.

Are you voting me for some other reason than scumreading me?

[II Xigbar]

Why are you voting me?

[II Xigbar]

What are your thoughts on 12's investigative immune claim?

[II Xigbar]

VOTE: Roxas

Both posts felt played up. Larxene is definitely not obvtown, Luxord is definitely not obvscum.

[II Xigbar]

VOTE: Larxene

Strongest scumread as of now.

They fail. Like a roleblock. What else would it mean?

Investigative-immune, eh?
Sounds like a GF if ya ask me

Sounds like someone doesn't know what I'm claiming! If I was a Godfather a cop would get a town result on me~

And sure, if you want to say it in a totally confusing way. Immune to investigations, that's it. They just fail.

These both, to my mind, feel like weird reactions to being prodded about the investigative immune claim. I would expect that town would understand that they would be questioned about the investigative immunity.
Rather than be clear about things, she gets sort of defensive with the 'what else would it mean' and makes an odd comment about me saying it in a totally confusing way when immune isn't really a mafia term and ascetic is.
Even just the phrasing of 'I'm investigative immune, losers' is a little more aggressive than I would expect from such a claim from town and altogether I feel like they're defensive and overly aggressive in a scummy way.
Them not clarifying what investigative immune in their first post also feels somewhat off, and overall it felt like they were trying to push the game to just accept it and move on.

VOTE: Vexen
Let's see you actually do something, Vexi! <3

VOTE: Roxas

Both posts felt played up. Larxene is definitely not obvtown, Luxord is definitely not obvscum.

Larxene might not be obvi town but she is so far the most town player here. Dont get where the Luxord obvscum is coming from

What's the point of even making this distinction? Why am I the towniest here, anyway?
This is your only post worth looking at and it doesn't say much.

Lexaeus is probably town. Or super excited scum, but I'd rather just call him town.

This is really weird. Are you essentially saying that you townread them for being excited? Because that's not a towntell and that feels like a lazy reason to townread someone. The immediate waffling about the townread feels bad too.

Roxas votes are bleh, tbh. He's pretty town.
I was onboard with Luxord scum until I saw him copy his notes. I don't really care about the content but I don't see any scum there. The guy has an honest face~! I wanna see more once he gets a foothold.

She townreads 10 for the votes (which I did, too, with the caveat that I townread him before the notes) but doesn't engage intellectually with it at all and just says they don't care about the content, which is another super lazy read.

Actually I'll just elaborate. Vexen and Axel are the scummiest here right now, full stop. If Luxord's scum he doesn't know what the heck to do right out of the gate, and I'm extremely interested in what he has to say on his return. I'm not a very patient girl, either.

Again, coming up with a townread and then immediately backs off on that townread by saying that she's now interested in what he has to say upon his return.
Why are Vexen and Axel the scummiest here, anyway? You said that you could vote Axel after a quote (and I do agree that post is somewhat scummy) but you've said nothing about Vexen this game. So, why?

[II Xigbar]

You're complaining that there's no content, but not a single person has addressed the case that I provided against Larxene, nor has anyone joined me in voting her.

[II Xigbar]

gotta get this game moving though. Its only page four and convo has pretty much died.

Xigbar what are your thoughts on Roxas and the way he came in

I think that Roxas could be scum. I specifically note that I think that certain players would, as scum, make a play like that.
They could potentially be a godfather, or they could even be just normal scum counting on not getting checked or some other power role influencing the check.

I do not townread them based on their content: their willingness to declare people obvscum and obvtown is bad. Nullish bad though.

So all this is more to say that I don't townread them but they're not a strong scumread and I am very happy with my current vote and won't be changing it.
If everyone's going to lurk and not produce content, then they should sheep the person who is actually playing the game at any rate.

[II Xigbar]

12 Larxene: Her claim is pro-town. A scum invest-immune doesn't gain much by claiming, at such early stages. On the other hand, it's a weak town role if any, so if she is a scum invest-immune, she had to be a really audacious/even defensive player to claim so early. Clubbed with this however are other things that make her a stronger townlean for me. She dislikes 4 Vex and clears 10 Lux for exactly the same points that I found valid in Vex's and Lux's behaviour. Suggests logic at work.

Do you not get the impression that, regardless of their alignment, that they are an audacious/defensive player?
What reasoning did she really give that wasn't just reiterations of stuff that other people had said?

[II Xigbar]

Axel is the only real scumread that I currently share with you. Would you be interested in wagoning there, given Larxene is not happening?

[II Xigbar]

Nevermind, not changing that vote for the world.

[II Xigbar]

because usually scum arent going to come out the gate and say what kind of role they have and draw some major attention on themselves. Have a hard time imagining a scum player doin what you did right out of the gate.

I think that the majority of experienced, competent scum players would make the claim because they'd know they would get towncred for it.
I also think that a substantial amount of newb scum would just claim the invest because it seems like the 'town thing to do' without doing a proper analysis.

There's a lot of people in between that wouldn't, but I think that enough people would do it that in a metaless game I'm not going to write off the slot as town.

You shouldn't either.

[II Xigbar]

I am open to a discussion by the way, Larxene. If you're town I would love to discuss your play so far this game. I'm not going to sit and tunnel you.

But everything that you've done so far, up to and including your last post with the in-character discredit and the weird comment about Saix, seems scum.

[II Xigbar]

I'll... shoot you with an arrowgun! Grr.

-in character-

[II Xigbar]

Roxas, say I'm a vig and I kill Larxene and they flip scum. Are you willing to put your head next on the chopping block to defend them?

Because I think it would be exactly up your alley to declare your scumpartner obvious town at the start of the game.

[II Xigbar]

Bumping this for page top reasons.

[II Xigbar]

This is a secret alt game and I'm not about to start ratting out alts left and right, regardless of the fact that I know who the mains of about half of the players.
I think that

you

would make a play like that if you had some way to get towncred from that, especially in a secret alt game. I will say no more about that.

[II Xigbar]

What makes this a scum ploy is the fact that you're declaring one of my top scumread obvtown and my second highest townread obvscum.
I said earlier that I don't think that you should be written off as town for the play: I never said that you were scum or that you should immediately be voted.

I am, however, perfectly happy to vote you right now because I feel like you're working very hard towards a scum wincondition right now, regardless of your alignment.

[II Xigbar]

You aren't scum for the ploy. I think it's even slightly more likely to be town than not. You're scum because you're throwing out declarations of reads that I think that you are better than to have.

[II Xigbar]

So correct me if I'm wrong, Lex, but your case on me is that I have claimed to know about half the game's identities and I could not possibly do so without knowing some of them from scumchat?

[II Xigbar]

1) Larxene threw out a bunch of townreads then backed off on them in a scummy way. This isn't at all based on what should or should not have been done; waffling and having empty townreads is scummy.
2) Larxene's scumreads are very lazy and it feels like scum looking for easy positions. Your best argument to rebut it is that others have done the same thing too. That's scummy on both of your parts.
3) Yes, my issues with her tone require you to have some confidence in my ability to judge such things to be valid. You can write that off, but you cannot write the other things off.

VOTE: Roxas

I believe that he is scum defending Larxene and I think that Larxene will be quite difficult to lynch whereas Roxas will be much easier to lynch, so I am going to go after him first.

[II Xigbar]

Pretty much, yeah.

Without actually revealing the mains, who do you think you know?

I will ask Heartless before I answer that question.

[II Xigbar]

This is false; I showed why.

No, you disagreed with them since they didn't suit your agenda.

This is a misrep of my point. I specifically said that her lack of specifics was not in fact a scumtell. I then went on to note that were you to believe it was a scumtell, she isn't even the player most guilty of it. My point was thus that you were wrong in your fundamental premise and your focus on her having done something others were far more guilty of is ridiculous. Sure her "sinning" (it's not but let's humor you) wouldn't go away, but that's no excuse for having utterly ignored altogether all the other players guilty of the alleged sin.

I can name them if you'd like.

I think that giving absolutely no reasons for your reads while sheeping general consensus on basically every single one of your reads is scummy.
I cannot prove that because Mafia is the kind of game where virtually no one agrees on what's scummy, but I am sticking with that view of the game in the face of anything that you say against it.

You are literally doing the exact same thing you are accusing Larxene of having done: taking the "easy" route. You are taking the "lazy" route. You are taking a position which is easy to take. Admitting you are doing so in public does not erase the sin of the hypocrisy in doing so while simultaneously pushing another for it.

I am visibly not following crowd consensus of any sort. My read on you developed independent of any slot in game and I jumped Larxene while they were universally townread. Saying I'm being 'easy' is disingenuous as hell.

It will be phenomenally difficult to lynch your scumpartners with you wallposting the rest of the game about how they're obvtown if you're scum.
It will be phenomenally difficult to lynch actual scum with you doing the same for the rest of the game about how obvtown the scum are if you're town.

I do not agree with any of your reads, I think that you're far more likely to be scum than not, and I think this is how we get from here to a town win regardless of your alignment.
You have shown no desire to engage with my reads, only to discredit them. You're either too confbiased to keep around or you're scum. I hope that you're the latter but I can live with the former.

[II Xigbar]

I take it back.
I do in fact have words.
Three, more specifically:

VOTE: II Xigbar.

This is Roxas realizing that I'm not going to back down and that the only way to defend Larxene is to attempt to mislynch me.

[II Xigbar]

This is you, selling a narrative.

If you didn't want to be pushed as being scum hard defending scum then you shouldn't be hard defending scum as a player who refuses to bus.

And I think Larxene is not guilty of this whereas there are other players who actually are.

There is a fucking difference between pretending to have reads and trying to look town and simply not having reads at all while making no effort to fake looking town.
Larxene is fake as balls and has the most insincere reads in the game while actively trying to look like she's playing the game.
Some people, whom you have called obvscum, have not really attempted to engage with the game. That's not great but it happens and is FAR less scummy than what either you or Larxene have been doing this game.

Your read on me IS easy because it is the crowd consensus. You said it yourself explicitly: I am an easy lynch. Why would I be an easy lynch? Because people think I am scum. There is a great number of people who have gone "Roxas's contribution is not great, but I won't vote him because...". You are pursuing the easy path.

Larxene is also not a universal townread. Now granted I don't understand why she isn't, but there are multiple players who have explicitly stated she is not obvtown, and you are not even alone in stating she is suspicious. So even there, you are not taking a hard road. You are taking a road which is convenient.

My read on you has reasons that have existed since before I was voting you. There's a clear progression and clear reasons.
I'm voting you because I think you're scum and an easier lynch than trying to get through Larxene with you spewing crap onto the thread.

If you fuck off and let me do my thing with Larxene I'll unvote you and go for the person I'm more sure is scum, but I'm not going to fight both of you simultaneously.

I've made this clear already.
What's there to engage on?
Your points are shit.
I've explained why they are shit.

My points are fine, whether you're scum ignoring them for strategic reasons or town whose head is too far up their ass to engage them properly.
You would think that given that virtually every town game I've seen you in you've hard townread at least one scum, you would have learned something by now.

[II Xigbar]

I have a good feeling about Roxas scum regardless of Larxene's alignment at this point. That OMGUS was absolutely horrid.

[II Xigbar]

I'm actually excited that I was wrong because that means this game gets to be more /secret/.

Come at me, then. Show me what you can do, Mr. Man of Mystery.

[II Xigbar]

No.

Roxas v Xigbar is townvtown. That being said, here's where scum really lies -

Vote: Saix

No, this is really not town versus town.

[II Xigbar]

Hey, Roxas. Welcome to the program, as they say.
Get practicing so you can make yourself useful.

[II Xigbar]

Well Roxas is pissing me the fuck off but I think I know who he is and while that makes the opener even more scum indicative I don't necessarily know that he's scum here.

Your premise is right.

Now prove it because you sure as fuck haven't.

As if, I just don't want to get in the way of your valuable training. I care about your future, Roxas.

VOTE: Larxene

[II Xigbar]

Lexaeus sharing a townread on Vexen is obviously an insignificant thing to be reading, but it seems to me like such an inherently difficult stance to defend because of the inconsistency he admits to that I find it hard not to see as town. Basically in addition to earlier posts I'm working with a pretty comfortable sense he's town more than anyone else in the game.

You're going to need to give a lot of follow up on this read because it doesn't make much sense to me.

105, in context, seems like a bit of a set-up for Xigbar, as scum to be making onto a Roxas push. Other posts from him I had a town impression, but I think the Larxene push doesn't make much sense either. Actually looking at Xigbar's series of posts at the top of page 6 makes me just think Xigbar is town.

This read is super waffly and goes both directions at once. It also doesn't really seem to add up to a townread to me except for a vague comment about the top of page six, and fmpov none of those were specifically towny to the point of overwriting what seems to be a scumread on my slot.

Saix's readslist: justifications for his reads are categorically bad. "Town is logical"/"scum is illogical" dichotomy just doesn't work. I'm hesitant to vote him, because the readlist just seems town. And I guess the conclusions of the list aren't necessarily that bad. (And I see now that both of these things have been echoed by Larxene.)

This is really waffly and doesn't seem to come to a conclusion, and I'm not sure what Larxene echoing this has to do with anything.

Saix: The reason the magnitude of my Axel read is small is because there isn't too much to say about it. There's no real justification. My thoughts on the matter are simply from experience and from what scum often tends to do when pushed early on in the game. And I just think an OMGUS comes from town in the early game more often. That's the only reason I have, and there's nothing else about Axel that tells me town.

A lot of words to basically say 'well he OMGUSed so he's more likely town.'

Earlier, I did think that Axel's TvT dismissal was weird but nothing to write home about. I'm really thinking that it can go both ways, after reading Zexion's thoughts about Axel. So don't necessarily disagree there. Based on Axel's previous posts, it does sort of seem like Axel could just be expressing genuine townreads on Xigbar and Roxas though.

I mean he waffled a lot in this post but for some reason this really, really gut pings me.
If I was to do pre-flip associatives or to have a flip on one or the other I would strongly suggest that this is scum talking about a scumbuddy.

[II Xigbar]

Larx I think you're scum. If you do something that causes me to reevaluate I'll reevaluate: I'm not even close to tunnel mode at this point and if you're town I would like to work with you. But I do strongly feel that what I've seen from you is scum indicative, regardless of Roxas's feelings on the matter.

[II Xigbar]

I mostly agree with Zexion's readslist, I mostly agree with what he says, I really like his scumreads and agree with his townreads. In spite of that, I've got a gut feeling that I shouldn't write the slot off as town entirely so I am not going to do so but I'm happy to work with you since our reads mostly align right now. What are your thoughts on Luxord, because I did townread the slot as well but his last post gave me really bad feelings and honestly the reasons that I had to townread him so far this game were comparatively lackluster so I think my reevaluation here should strongly outweigh.

I agree with Axel being scummy, for the record, but I've had the thought that he's super scummy but I'm concerned that he may just be scummy town. I don't know, like I would almost call them too scummy to be scum here. Not really someone that I'm interested in lynching Day 1 unless I get something that's more clearly scum and not just like bad.

[II Xigbar]

It's hard because there was a point where I was like ehh I should really be voting Axel but I don't know how likely they are to actually flip scum.

[II Xigbar]

Hmmm

Xigbar why are you basing reads on meta on a secret alt game ? I find that disturbing.

Also your case on Larxene is pretty lucklaster.

Your reasons on her talks about Luxord were a blatant lie since in the first post you quoted

I wanna see more once he gets a foothold.

and then in the second you quoted
[QUOTE="Laxy" I'm extremely interested in what he has to say on his return

In both posts she anounced that she is interested to see more so where did you get the impression that this was new after "backing off" as you pointed? She always wanted to see more.

I'm not saying she's hypocritical in that sense, I'm saying it's weird that she wants to hear more from her townreads and not her scumreads.
Blatant lie is a rather strong phrasing to use and not to vote me or to immediately consider me scum: this post feels oddly like you're trying to tell

me

that you scumread me and it feels scummy. What's disturbing of my use of meta in a secret alt game? Do you mean scummy or against the spirit of the game?

[II Xigbar]

That was a quote from the game itself. I'm not fully reevaluating: I think that Roxas is balance of probabilities scum. But I'm no longer locking them in as immediate priority lynch, and I'm wary of how much support that their lynch has from people that I think are scum.

[II Xigbar]

I will say that you're not like a scumread, I just no longer have you as near the top of my townpool. You're meh-null.

[II Xigbar]

Confirmed Town: Xemnas, Xigbar
Strong Townread: Saix (144 feels super, super town)
Townread: Zexion (Logic says they should be locktown, gut says they might be scum, compromise)
Slight townread: Lexaeus, Vexen (Little content from Vexen but just minor townread, Lexaeus has stuff I like and dislike, they can go here for now.)
Null: Luxord, Marluxia (Brought luxord down because of bad feelings on a few things, though maybe he should still be higher? Marluxia has done little)
Scummy: Roxas, Axel (Roxas is as said before, kind of raising him a bit because meh. Axel is objectively awful so it's hard to put him higher, but maybe he doesn't belong here. I'll decide that later)
Scumfuckery: Xaldin, Larxene (Xaldin everything is bad. Larxene I've said a lot about.)

Demyx has done nothing so I have no read on them.

If you want to work with me, come vote up Xaldin?

[II Xigbar]

VOTE: Xaldin

Where my vote should go.

[II Xigbar]

nexion, what is your Saix read?

[II Xigbar]

I have a serious issue with the fact that I picked someone I'm scumreading to declare obvtown and they're immediately top of your townread block.
I would like some elaboration on that because I feel like you're actively trying to pocket me right now.

[II Xigbar]

Somehow prod dodged at ninety hours. Content later.

[II Xigbar]

@Xigbar is 195/196 addressed to me? Don't understand what you mean by picking someone who you're scumreading to declare obvtown there.

Short answer: yes. I very strongly feel based on your opener to the game that you are scum trying to pocket me.
Saix was never a townread: I was actually scumreading him and more particularly sort of scumreading you guys associatively so I put him as high town to see what you'd do.

That's not necessarily indicative: I wouldn't call you scum even if you literally just took the read from me. But it adds to the feeling.
Idk there was no phase of sorting me it felt like you were too quick to townread me for an opener that's stylistically what I'd be doing no matter what as a secret alt.

I don't really like your votes or some of your reads either.

If you're town I really really don't want this to be a game where we fight and/or you get mislynched: can we find a time to be on?

[II Xigbar]

???

I was the best man at Zexion's wedding. No shit they know who I am. No shit they would try to pocket me since we're super close friends IRL.

Why would it have to be due to notoriety?

[II Xigbar]

I'm fine with you feeling a little paranoid about my slot but I think that'll probably go away for you once you realize who I am / once I push a lynch on scum (basically no doubt left in my mind about who you are).

I had a guess from their second post and this confirmed it.

[II Xigbar]

Huh. Iso-ing Xig for a Xal case, and while the early stuff is still towny, the last few posts have been all kinds of meh. 307 particularly seems like... garbage. Like the whole concept...

"I lied about my reads so I could see what you'd do. And if you were town you could still do the exact same thing as I think you might have done as scum, because I'm afraid you're trying to pocket me."

1) This is hugely misrepresenting what actually happened and the specific manner feels like scum trying to spin me as scummy.
The specific act of the quotation marks (specifically creating a narrative about what I was doing) is something bad scum do a lot to push scumreads, and is a huge scumtell.
2) I lied about a scumread to see how it would influence their read on the slot. It's a minor thing that has many potential reactions.
I think that that particular response is what they would do as scum. They also -might- do it as town. I think that there are other reactions that would clearly demarcate town or scum.

Larxy and Lexy (who should really be masons with names like that) appear to have sheeped Xig. Whose reasoning amounted to not liking Xal's first three posts. Luxia, from context of 314-316 appears to be voting out of some weird concern for the deadline. Like, if Saix weren't making such wonderfully jiggly motions in response to my vote on him, I'd vote Luxia for those three. It's just so gross that it makes me want to stop eating for a couple of weeks. It's weird to me that a wagon so full of townreads can also look like such hot garbage. I'm probably gonna need to spend some serious time reevaluating that nest of crazy.

Quotes where you talk about your intent to think about things as opposed to actually thinking about things, on top of being LAMIST as fuck, are a huge scumtell.

Hmm. At what approximate point in the game did you learn their identity. And vice versa.

The answer to this is clearly visible in the game.
I feel like if he were -that- concerned about this issue that he would have carefully looked for this answer himself.

As far as Axel's alignment goes, I haven't the foggiest. That's pretty much the reason I asked you why you were voting him in 306, which I'd still like you to respond to, btw. I just feel that your overconfidence, hypocrisy, and dismissal of literally every other player you have to read is probably scum. I'm adding the tu quoque, loaded question, and fact you ignored me until I suspected you to the list of reasons your role pm is red as well, btw.

Showy and played up declaration that he doesn't know what alignment Axel is. To put it in one word it would again be LAMIST but that doesn't go to the heart of why it's scummy.
He's making a point of declaring himself uninformed. Also, calling them in an overblown manner overconfident hypocritical and dismissive of literally every other player again feels scummy.
Also, that final sentence is out of place and something I've seen from scum a lot: after all, why would he be telling his scumreads about the additions to the reasons that he scumreads them?

Like, I could understand this kind of paranoia from someone like mastina or thor on the outside, but there's 0 weight behind Xig's name here so there wouldn't be any reason to try to pocket him specifically.
I could understand the lying about reads if you thought it would catch scum, but here though it sounds like you know the result is gonna be mostly null.

I can't shake the feeling that this post comes from someone who knows who I am.
No, I know the current reaction was null: if they challenged my read and they flipped scum I would super heavily townread them. Certain types of discomfort would indicate scum.
It's fairly clear what I was aiming for and you're calling me scummy for the act of lying about my reads, but what exactly is scum!Xigbar's scum motivation to do this?

And that last line seems like a scum talking to someone they're afraid of catching them as town. Which ALSO doesn't make any sense, regardless of alignment, because there should be no way for Xig to know if Zex is good at catching them.

Seriously, wth was this?

I have so many fucking times made reference to my altguesses on different slots and this feels like you're trying to lock -no one knows anything- to help you push a narrative.
So from my point of view you've either not read anything this game or are just scum trying to get an angle to push me off of.

Which is it?

Hmm. At what approximate point in the game did you learn their identity. And vice versa.

Even this doesn't feel like an appropriate reaction. If he was so certain that no one could know anyone's names, he wouldn't so readily back down on it.

Seriously, wth was this?

This comes from scum the vast, vast majority of the time.

[II Xigbar]

VOTE: IV Vexen

[II Xigbar]

TL;DR IV Vexen just feels overblown as all hell, and trying way too hard to show that they're thinking and stuff and it feels like scum.
I also can't shake the feeling that they're trying too hard with the 'no one knows who anyone is!' crap because they are in scumchat and know who a few people are, myself included.
I don't think anyone's first impression is that someone trying to pocket x specifically is a stature thing as opposed to just being friends, but that feels like what someone who knows me would say.

Oh yeah that much is obvious but what I'm thinking about is the way your reads were thrown out. Think as scum you'd put more thought into that side of things.

Those are bold words coming from you. Are you saying you'll volunteer to take care of it if things go wrong? Huh?

[II Xigbar]

This game is a steaming pile of shit. Probably going to replace out.

If you are town Xigbar I have 0 respect for you in this game after that horseshit. I do nothing but engage with you an honest way and just because my reads align with yours and I'm willing to follow you on a read of yours that I don't understand I'm trying to pocket you??? And you were ~faking reads~ to try to ~bait me~? Fuck off dude. My reads are my own. Don't bring out of game stuff into the game to try to reveal anyone's identity, that's flagrantly in violation of the spirit of alted games. Your Vexen case is rubbish, you'll find scum in a nunnery with the way you're approaching the game.

Zero fucking clue how anyone has even a whisper of a townread on Axel here.

I didn't say you were. I just said that you might be. I'm sorry that my playstyle is manipulative but I like to see what people do. It's offended others before.
Sorry that I was wrong. I sincerely hope this didn't come from scum you but I think it's super, super unlikely and I'm willing to flat out trust you for this. Can we team up from here?
(Also, as you full well know I wasn't sincere with the Best Man comment and I was more trying to test his reaction, I don't understand why you're that upset about it? I don't see what exactly you think is out of game stuff to reveal people's identities. I agree that his reaction after the fact was pretty towny. I am going to be unvoting him as soon as I decide exactly where I would rather place my vote.)

[II Xigbar]

Gotta love people just following xigbars no case on me and voting there, only for him to come and say that he is bsing reads, you know like I suspected he was doing when I called him out on his reads being fake.

Vote:Xigibar

Can we lynch traitors now.

This whole thing reeks of people now finally questioning him about his nothing stuff and he is trying to twist it into some I faked reads for weird reactions test for pocketing based on meta I thought I had.

Yea ok

This was a great vote and this is where my vote should go again I think.

VOTE: Xaldin

[II Xigbar]

Oh and I want to caveat: pretty towny was the wrong word. I could still easily see that slot being scum and I'm super wary of it. But I don't think it's nearly as likely to flip scum as other slots and I don't feel like fighting #6 on their townreads at this point in the game and would rather hope that the issue resolves itself later in the game.

[II Xigbar]

I definitely lean Axel as scum. If you're super not believing in the Xaldin wagon and super supporting Axel wagon I can follow you. I am currently more sure that Xaldin is scum but I will follow you.

[II Xigbar]

Oh I was right.
Got thrown by the lie about the wedding.

Heh heh heh heh heh.

(That was, for the record, a deliberate lie.)

[II Xigbar]

Axel, to me, is fundamentally bad right now. He's bad in a way that could be scum and it's difficult to ascertain, he's bad in a way that it's hard to pin him down, and has a lot of scum motivation:
but I cannot with any degree of confidence assert that he's scum. On top of that, my reads on the scumteam as a whole are starting to shape up and the Xaldin/Saix connection is pretty strong and I want to go that way.
He's not a slot I have any problems seeing wind up dead but I don't expect to have a long lifespan in this game regardless of anonymity and I would like to pursue something more dangerous than what is fundamentally, in my opinion, a lynch that I cannot be sure of due to the complete lack of content given by the slot.

[II Xigbar]

I'm doing my best to not say anything that specifically refers to you having altslipped and given that I obviously knew who you were it's not like it informed my game plan in any way.

If you're referring to Xaldin the only competition seems to be Saix given that people are townreading Axel for ??? so I don't understand?

Honestly my biggest problem with the current gamestate is that I not only scumread both of them but I scumread together and town is never that good.

[II Xigbar]

I ISO'd Xaldin. There's absolutely nothing to say. That slot has done nothing. He isn't even making an effort. There are only a few detailed posts, but these posts are mostly centred around himself, how others' votes on him are opportunistic, etc (e.g. 219). I dont like that. But I would like to give him some more time.

This is very much something that you see scum say about a wagoned scumbuddy when they don't want to bus.

[II Xigbar]

And yeah even the act of caring in that way about that comparison suggests that you are scum. If you took any heed in it as town I think it would be to call me out for lining up your lynch behind Xaldin's.

[II Xigbar]

I mean I do think Saix is still potentially just asking all the wrong questions. I'm not locked into any sort of read there like I am with Xaldin.
I'm also toying with the idea of several other people being scum, especially Lexaeus, on a Xaldin scumflip.

[II Xigbar]

[II Xigbar]

I don't have that issue, usually.

I will say that I don't specifically scumread his play in this game to a strong degree. He's pretty null I think. I'm trying to sort out what my feelings are on who is most likely to be scum with him and I actually think that the Lex slot is potentially more likely to flip scum (and probably not with Saix!) I wouldn't want to see him go through for that reason and I do feel like, just based on my experiences, there aren't two scum wagons here: but we'll see how things go. Of course, I don't think that question will be mine to answer

[II Xigbar]

I agree that Axel vs Saix is -probably- not SvS at this juncture. At the very least, if Saix is scum with Xaldin, I would feel reasonably sure that third scum would bus one of them.

[II Xigbar]

Yeah that sentence goes in two directions but I'm still town I swear. I just sort of changed my mind midway through the sentence.

I don't want to be playing the 'guess what scum would be doing' game because I suck at it, like everyone else. I'm sort of weary of trying to make connections pre-flip.

[II Xigbar]

Since we both agree that Saix is a less desirable lynch today than Xaldin, can I persuade you to join me over here?

[II Xigbar]

This is why -blank- which is too revealing as to my identity is the case.

[II Xigbar]

Actually yeah in the end I don't think that I actually think Saix is scum. There's some really bad votes on the Saix wagon and I don't expect them to be bussed this early.

[II Xigbar]

Gotta love people just following xigbars no case on me and voting there, only for him to come and say that he is bsing reads, you know like I suspected he was doing when I called him out on his reads being fake.

Vote:Xigibar

Can we lynch traitors now.

This whole thing reeks of people now finally questioning him about his nothing stuff and he is trying to twist it into some I faked reads for weird reactions test for pocketing based on meta I thought I had.

Yea ok

Strongly disliking this reaction feels like upset scum caught for the wrong reasons.

VOTE: Saix

Happy to vote here

You're causing me issues here too: why do you go from agreeing with me that Xaldin is scum countervoting me to voting the counterwagon to that wagon?

[II Xigbar]

Zexion, go through new!Luxord's progression on myself and the Xaldin slot.

[II Xigbar]

Yeah I'm not communicating well here. I also reread and the 'xigbar is egotown' isn't as jarring as it was on first read.

What happens if Axel flips town and I die?

[II Xigbar]

I feel like Saix is one of those reads that I'm always going to get wrong because I always underestimate him and always want to like him and that makes everything screwy for me.

In case you have figured out my identity and you are referring to that specific game where your trust in my slot was unfounded, I must say I am really really sorry for that game, and I felt guilty long after that. I take this as a compliment though that I can screw up with someone as good and experienced a player as you. Except in here, coz here I am not even trying to do that, and here it might turn out to be a liability.

I think you should stop second guessing yourself, and go with what you feel is correct intuitively. I would suggest even if your choice is to vote for me, that's fine.

I'm fairly sure everyone in this game who took any impetus to look has figured out your identity, for the record.

[II Xigbar]

In the very unlikely scenario that Axel flips town then we probably lynch Xaldin day 2 and someone who TMI'd a townread on Axel day 3.

That's not a we though.

[II Xigbar]

I get your scumread on me but your thinking here is totally backwards.

[II Xigbar]

I'm going to back off on trying to work with you. I don't know how to explain where I'm at on an anonymous basis. I don't feel like I can back down on trying to get Xaldin today. Sorry.

[II Xigbar]

You seem to be talking more about Laxeus yet voting Roxas, Pray tell me young one, why do you supposed a traitor would ask to be investigated ? What is the scum motivation you are seeing ?

Same question goes to you as well xigbar.

This feels like he knows that Roxas is town. There's plenty of scum motivation, from nexuses to godfathers to being ascetic and crying roleblocked to a 1-shot Tailor.
I think his quickness to automatically write him off comes from scum who isn't actually bothering to think about contingencies.

Unless you supposed traitors have some sort of godfather which would be most unifitting for Roxas in all honesty.

'you supposed traitors' feels like he's trying to hard to distance himself from the traitors. Like, you guys- as opposed to him.

Hmmm

Xigbar why are you basing reads on meta on a secret alt game ? I find that disturbing.

Also your case on Larxene is pretty lucklaster.

Your reasons on her talks about Luxord were a blatant lie since in the first post you quoted

On top of 'hmm' just generally being scummy as fuck, calling my use of meta in a secret alt game disturbing feels super scummy, like he's trying to conflate me being against the spirit of the game with being scummy. On top of that, calling me a blatant liar followed by

In both posts she anounced that she is interested to see more so where did you get the impression that this was new after "backing off" as you pointed? She always wanted to see more.

is weird. If he thought I was a blatant liar he should be outright pushing me, rather than questioning, and I strongly feel like that he's scum for that.

As for your comment about alts. It is both scummy and against the spirit of the game. It's scummy because it's an easy and lazy excuse to go Afterwards"I guess I was wrong about who it was and the meta"

Now you can alt guess all you want but in.a case meta has no place.

Also you would be correct that I am scumreading you. I simply don't always vote on my point suspicion posts.

This is still bullshit and using it to try to push me is still bullshit. He's creating a narrative to spin something NAI at worst as scummy. This post doesn't come from town.
Also, my point wasn't that he didn't vote me strictly it's that he didn't talk to me like he thought I was scum: and he still isn't talking like he thinks I'm scum.

Gotta love people just following xigbars no case on me and voting there, only for him to come and say that he is bsing reads, you know like I suspected he was doing when I called him out on his reads being fake.

Vote:Xigibar

Can we lynch traitors now.

This whole thing reeks of people now finally questioning him about his nothing stuff and he is trying to twist it into some I faked reads for weird reactions test for pocketing based on meta I thought I had.

Yea ok

Piggybacks off of other people's shit votes on me, twisting me lying about a single, strategic read on Saix to me bsing reads in general, then trying to call me scum for it.
That 'whole thing reeks' bit is fucking god tier scummy and I shouldn't need to explain that to others.

Can we lynch traitors now.

Super scummy thing to say in general.



Every other counterwagon has had some super shitty votes.
Virtually the entire game has agreed that Xaldin is scummy, yet various people from Zexion to Saix to Lexaeus, after expressing scumreads on the slot, have ended up not voting him.
That is trademark slot that flips scum that isn't getting wagoned because it's scum. I personally fucking promise that this flips scum. It's not town.

[II Xigbar]

I don't scumread you I just don't really feel comfortable townreading you anymore; I appreciate the desire to work with me if you're town but I feel like you're giving me what you think I want and trying to dance around that and that bothers me as does the way that you've been treating Saix slot but I know that it's not unambiguously scum!you at all on an intellectual level even if that's kind of my gut reaction so I'm not even close to voting you but I'm definitely having issues trusting you right now, sorry. I don't disagree with your Xaldin push I just feel much more strongly about Axel right now.

Yes, I am trying to give you what you want to the best that I am able but I feel like me sacrificing my lynch options is far more of a sacrifice than you doing the same.
There is not a chance in hell that I am not the nightkill unless scum explicitly thinks that I'm going to be protected, and TTH is aroused by strongmen so that's not going to be a thing.

I can't stop you from feeling that way but I also have a gut feeling that this isn't the play you would do here if you were town.

[II Xigbar]

Like everyone agrees that Xaldin is scum but so many people are refusing to vote them for shit reasons and there's no way that that's how a town wagon develops if any of the other potential wagons are scum.

[II Xigbar]

While I don't necessarily disagree with that Roxas post, Larxene's role tells us there is almost definitely an investigative who can check him.
And since he asked so kindly........ I say we probably shouldn't lynch him today.

Pretty bizarre thing to say considering we're on page 2. Lexaeus's whole approach to the invest-immune claim is scummy noise-making and this kind of stance on Roxas has equally as little town motivation and plenty of scum motivation. Roxas's entrance feels super canned. Scumreading both slots pretty comfortably right now.

Vote: Roxas

Both posts felt played up.

I don't see the motivation here.

Care to finish that thought?

You seem to be talking more about Laxeus yet voting Roxas, Pray tell me young one, why do you supposed a traitor would ask to be investigated ? What is the scum motivation you are seeing ?

Same question goes to you as well xigbar.

Unless you supposed traitors have some sort of godfather which would be most unifitting for Roxas in all honesty.

Like this is so important
he doesn't stop to think about Godfathers until AFTER he made that post.
What kind of town starts calling people scum for questioning a thought like that before they've even considered it themselves? Whereas scum sees someone ask to be investigated and is like ok we can't push on that person because they don't stop to think through the possibilities immediately and only after do they think about it.

[II Xigbar]

"xigbar was killed b/c obvtown and invested and to frame xaldin"!!

[II Xigbar]

That's not how people work even when my identity is known. Please just Lynch Xaldin if you're town.

[II Xigbar]

This is not how Town Xaldin talks to me here.

[II Xigbar]

I mean I am and that's sort of obvious. No one is going to kill Xemnas with their current level of contribution to the game and I've been shot before ICs before.

[II Xigbar]

I do not have a read on Xaldin yet, though I expect that will change rather quickly.

You have been saying this all day and it has yet to change.
I would greatly appreciate it if you would trust me and vote there since you don't seem to have spent any time trying to read them.

[II Xigbar]

Can you sheep the one slot in this game whom you know is town, your predecessor, and leave your vote there?

[II Xigbar]

Axel, I think Saix flips town and I have no interest in seeing that lynched. I don't feel as confident that you're scum as -others- do but if you vote Xaldin I'll be a lot more willing to townread you.

[II Xigbar]

I feel pretty comfortable saying, if I can simplify the scumteam's play into a simple narrative, that Larxene bus voted because I was pressuring both of their slots, lost interest in the game because she was in a bad position, and the replacement came in and realized that she would be in an even worse position if she went through with the bus vote that she had down and voted Axel because it had confirmed town support and Zexion's tentative support.

[II Xigbar]

Xaldin really needs to die. This isn't fucking rocket science how bad the reads on him have been or how bad his play has been. I would be fakeclaiming a guilty here if this were D2.

[II Xigbar]

@Xemnas you are confirmed town and that means you have some fucking responsibility towards the game to read the game properly.
You have been saying that you would read Xaldin for weeks and have refused to do so. I understand RL but if you're going to do nothing then you should follow someone who is doing something rather than maintain a vote on someone random without it being at all confirmed because you're making it real fucking easy for scum to get away with not bussing here. You're doing a lot more damage to town than you realize.

[II Xigbar]

Wish you weren't scum Zexion.

[II Xigbar]

Nah. you wouldn't be scumreading me here and if you were you certainly wouldn't make excuses for it.

[II Xigbar]

If you guessed who I am from that post I would be surprised.

Well then I guess it just works perfectly that I'm ~full of surprises~.




































VOTE: Xaldin

Backed into a corner when she thought that the wagon was 100% going through she voted and made a huge show of it with this post.
As soon as there's another viable wagon with Larxene switching over she's immediately off this wagon.

[II Xigbar]

I can't do anything that I haven't already. Xaldin is obvious scum as fuck and I've made it as clear as I possibly can and both of the other wagons have repeated slimy as fuck votes yet people still take them seriously.
Xaldin's a clear scum wagon with scum led by anti-bus Zexion over here searching for viable wagons to throw in front of it, starting with Saix and now with a huge pile up onto Axel.

Roxas I haven't thought was scum for a while. Marluxia's vote itself was bad but she's highly town by play in general and just gutread despite low content. Lexaeus and Larxene, less obvtown, but neither are still on the wagon.

Where's the scum votes here? Why are scum avoiding this wagon so hard? If either of these other wagons are hitting scum, why aren't scum using my hard push as an excuse to jump over here?

If people stop thinking in terms of their own incredibly fallible reads and start seeing things in objective terms it's really clear what's going on here.

[II Xigbar]

I can't babysit this game indefinitely. I am 100% confident that Xaldin flips scum to the point that I'm fine offering to be lynched if they don't. They're just not town.
Nothing in their play is town motivated. The way they talk isn't town motivated. The way other people have maneuvered around trying to keep them alive isn't town motivated.
Unless there's some staunch disagreement with my townreads the only potential scum votes on them were either super short lived or made and kept by an absent slot.

Wagons don't just fucking fade out like this one has. Not with me spending the entire game sitting there. Not with him doing absolutely fucking nothing towny of note.
I'm never unvoting that slot as long as it's alive and if you managed to mentally circlejerk yourselves tomorrow into thinking I was shot to frame him then you deserve to lose.

[II Xigbar]

It felt pretty inevitable before you and Larxene piled back onto Axel with the conftown who hasn't read any of the game but keeps his vote down, yeah.
Otherwise I don't really have anything more to say to you.

[II Xigbar]

Your reads are infallible?

Infallible? nah. But I've never been wrong on a scumread of this stature and you are as aware of that as I am, talking out of two sides of my mouth be damned.

[II Xigbar]

I feel like you should know better than to think that I would be scum here. I don't want to fight you. I feel like you should know that I don't want to fight you. I don't think that I'm forced to fight you here: my position is absolutely fine and while I don't have a 100% chance of getting the lynch that I want through I was in absoultely fine standing. Conversely, with my 100% read claim I'm either bussing, in which case you can lynch with me and question why I wasn't nightkilled later, or I'm about to lynch town while claiming that and be instantly torn apart given -reasons-. Why would I not take this opportunity to make a point about how much better my way (ie bussing) is than your hard defending stance? Why would Axel be worth hard pushing a mislynch to keep alive? I do hard defend in games, occasionally, with players like _________ who are worth it or __________ where I had literally no other options. But this isn't one of those games. And frankly you know better than this: every time I've rolled scum in a game with you I've put you in my townpile and attempted to pocket you. That isn't some magical coincidence and it isn't an aspect of meta that I would change for strategic gain, I do it because it is the strategic gain. I have had a really fucking strong showing in terms of pocketing my friends in general this year and it both makes the game far more enjoyable to cozy up to you and gives me far more control over the game when I have influence over you. Say this is all part of a long protracted play to manipulate you, sure, but I think that you know better than that and with Axel refusing to vote Xaldin despite calling him scum and him trying to push the vote on you I would think that if you were town your conclusion would be that we're both pushing scum rather than that I'm scum hard defending Axel here, and I don't think that I'm wrong.

[II Xigbar]

And frankly I don't think that town you EVER tries to shut down communication here. You should know better than to be that sure ever.

[II Xigbar]

Axel, I'm concerned that you've agreed with me on Xaldin scum but are refusing to vote them. You requested to townblock with me and that means working together and I'd like you to help me with this.

[II Xigbar]

I appreciate that actually, it makes this less frustrating and painful.

[II Xigbar]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

This changes things.

Okay so like, vote Xaldin already, Xigbar is also 100% scum and I'm tunneling that slot until the end of time, nothing but mod confirmation will change my mind, everything about his play here is scum, I'm lockvoting him tomorrow 100% of the time and nothing is going to change that so can we get a move on please and lynch his bud already, nothing else is happening this dayphase.

Fmpov this is an intentional scumclaim. I feel it would be bad sportsmanship to explain this further. If we want to wagon here instead today I'm okay with that.

[II Xigbar]

Ehh I want Xaldin dead. no dice.

[II Xigbar]

Fmpov this is an intentional scumclaim. I feel it would be bad sportsmanship to explain this further. If we want to wagon here instead today I'm okay with that.

it's not; zex is always wrong on u

I don't think Zex has a fantastic track record on reading me but the only person who is better who still plays is Firebringer. And it's not about her scumread on me, it's about the wording.

[II Xigbar]

is it now

[II Xigbar]

Sorry are you jumping on the Xig was bussing bandwagon too?

[II Xigbar]

Like I just don't get how anyone is townreading Axel in any universe and I'm fairly sure that if Luxord isn't scum after that then Demyx is because there's no way a player who is at least competent the way Demyx seems to be would read that shit as "oh I get your townread there Roxas", like that's just blatant as fuck pocketing and anyone who knows Roxas knows that all you need to do to pocket him forever and beyond is to buy into his reads / narrative. Doesn't matter how much he scumreads you beforehand if you just agree with him you're suddenly a townread.

Dude you are smoking something really strong here. Agreeing with Roxas is the fastest way to get scumread. Like every time I have I've had a paranoia burst from them so you're just flat wrong here through my experiences alone.

Can confirm: I am incredibly difficult to pocket or otherwise influence. I may at times hold strong townreads on unusual players, but these reads aren't based off of any deliberate effort by the players in question. Quite the opposite, deliberate effort is indeed a good way to ping me hard.

Which... Oh lookie here! Town again! Doing it again! Having Roxas suspect me again!

You know given my current stance on you I hate to bring it up because it doesn't do your argument you're town many favors, but...I do kinda sorta townread your outburst here.

This is also not a bus vote.

OK - that's fair but you at least agree there's something suspicious about it? Doesn't fit the puzzle of Zexion too well.

Knowing who Zexion is, I'd say it actually does fit them as town. There is something suspicious about the wagons we've had, but Zexion isn't the main contributor to that.

Oh fuck off with that stop making excuses for her.

You know full well that what she's doing here is not at all okay. If she's town and ruining the game of out of game stuff like in our first game (and let's be 100% sure town her NEVER does what she's doing now) she's a shitty friend. And I don't think she's a shitty friend, so she's scum.

If she's really town and didn't learn from our first game together she has something else coming

[II Xigbar]

I doubt she kills me n1 so there's that I guess.

[II Xigbar]

Lol okay Xemnas.

Claim (in part) novice gladiator

No one investigate zexion because I will Lynch someone who claims an innocent on her. Have the 1v1 you want then zex

[II Xigbar]

................why?

[II Xigbar]

zzz

UNVOTE:

[II Xigbar]

I still think he's scum by play for the record but some of the actions around his wagon have been awful.

[II Xigbar]

I need some time to organize my thoughts. Don't go too crazy wagoning anyone, this'll be done in the next 10 hours.

[II Xigbar]

I'd really like to piledrive Zexion but I don't see that working right now because she's widely townread. I'm feeling less confident that this flips scum: stuff has sort of changed that read.
They're still vaguely a scumread but some of the maneuvering around the wagon and some of their actual posting seems... sort of okay? Like not okay as in good it's awful but not necessarily scum.

So I'm going to revisit the game and look elsewhere and see what I can and cannot do.

[II Xigbar]

Associatives are killing me right now. I'm going to let go of them because they've been killing my accuracy recently and just focus on who is scummy.

[II Xigbar]

I think his argument that Zex is scum who hates bussing and is trying to keep their partner alive by saying they're not lynching them to spite Xigbar is a little wonky, though - if Xaldin is scum, Zex most definitely isn't

This doesn't at all make sense to me and I see posts like this a ridiculous amount from scum tying flips together. Why would Zex be inherently not!scum with Xaldin?

[II Xigbar]

Vexen on this page is pushing for something that's objectively awful. Does it make them scum? I would lean yes? Especially if Xaldin is town here.

[II Xigbar]

Saix I pretty comfortably townread.
Roxas I pretty comfortably townread.
Xemnas is confirmed town.
Xigbar and his badass arrowguns are town.
Zex can die a horrible death for being scum (out of game I still think you're great . Even if you're actually town I'll forgive you.) But I don't see the purpose in pushing a wagon as contentious of that without the benefit of either my gladiate or a full day to push it. I'm going to leave her out of the lynchpool for now.
Starting to believe that Xaldin's dumb ass may be town but the best way to be sure of that will be his reaction to this read swap.

So that's 7 people remaining.

I'm working through what I want and what I want seems to be VOTE: Vexen. But I'll give more details.

[II Xigbar]

I think that I townread Demyx.
It's not a confident townread but I like the directions that he's been pushing in general, now that I know he ISN'T in fact who he has been masquerading as (which I scumread actually because of how off -person- seemed lol.) There's nothing that I can piont to that's specifically scummy. I can't lock them in as town but if they aren't a very good scum player they're town.

Hey!

...Aw, hell, who am I kidding? You're not wrong.

At least my vote is in the right place, right?

(In all seriousness, I'll get to this in about 12 hours. Maybe I'll hyper spam post, maybe I won't. Maybe I'll build a wall. Maybe I'll be an annoying lurksack and offer just one or two thoughts with no reasoning. Who knows what the future might bring!

...I'm really sorry for forgetting about this game.)

Like dunno sorta townread this as well.

Lexaeus, with the confirmation as to their identity, is probably in the townpool. It's light, but there's a certain specific aspect to their townplay that is normally a scumtell but it's very present in their townplay and not in their scumplay, and it's all over the place here. So I'm going to not want to lynch either of these two today. And that's...8. Leaving 5 to go!

[II Xigbar]

I feel like we should clarify this since I sincerely doubt scum will be deterred from shooting either of us based on my threatened gladiate and I think we're hurting town unity right now:
I do not scumread Zexion. I feel like I should locktown her based on the gambit, which was almost certainly done to attempt to make me a less obvious nightkill target, and I will do so based on her response now.
I mostly scumread her because of the /way/ that she scumread me and refused to let me answer to it and at she kept saying things that she had said she wouldn't say and I was like you have to be fucking scumclaiming to be saying this shit and then I was like ohhh maybe she doesn't scumread me at all. It's something that she's done before. But I don't think it would actually stop scum from killing either of us (namely me) and I think it's putting out some of the town around us and potentially can cause her to get mislynched in the future if people end up following my reads (LOL YEAH THAT'S NOT HAPPENING) or more likely someone investigates her and is like NO TOWN GRR. Which is not what I want.

So yeah, we're good here.

Don't talk about it, be about it. If you think I'm scummy, vote me. It'll do more for the game than leaving your vote on no one. Def not thor, though, so I can stop expecting a higher level of competence from you.

Funny because I actually thought you might me Monsieur Fork.

[II Xigbar]

Because I don't expect to be alive until Day 2 to do them then.

[II Xigbar]

What's the point of this line of inquiry?

[II Xigbar]

[Axel, Larxene, Marluxia, Luxord]

Could see all 3 scum being in there tbh.

[II Xigbar]

rofl

[II Xigbar]

If I'm scum I'll mail you a plaque how does that sound?

[II Xigbar]

I won't actually because that constitutes an out of game thingy.
But if it makes you feel better!

[II Xigbar]

Starting to believe that Xaldin's might not get lynched and I need to clear myself of pressing a strong PR to avoid being checked by him or another.

Fixed that for you.

Hi sweetie I am town so you can GTFOest of GTFOes, okay?

[II Xigbar]

If I was to guess the scumteam right now

it's Luxord/Marluxia/Larxene

[II Xigbar]

Axel could be in there too tbh. Fits in the same grouping. Not quite sure who to exclude.

Maybe it's four scum even

[II Xigbar]

Marluxia feels sort of excludable right now.

[II Xigbar]

Actually Marluxia feels like the most excludable, though probably more likely scum than other people in the game.

So let's pick the most individually scummy of Larxene and Luxord! Because those two feel sort of locked in atm.

[II Xigbar]

I think I did solve this game as Axel/Larxene/Luxord tbh. Everything fits.

[II Xigbar]

Hi Antihero senpai are you proud of me?

[II Xigbar]

I mean there's gotta be

wordsing

to go with the

feelsing

so we can actually get this lynch though.

Hmm.

[II Xigbar]

See one of the things about Luxord's ego town comment is it doesn't really make sense if either of the people that I was pushing on were scum.
But if I was town gallantly jumping from wrong scumread to wrong scumread to wrong scumread it makes more sense: he said I was going to get lynched, but why when I was universally townread?
Could it be that he knew that the people I was pushing on were town and that if I got them lynched it would destroy my standing and likely get me lynched later?

[II Xigbar]

Don't want to lynch Axel because it feels like they're doing a divide and conquer setup where Luxord/Larxene are hard townblocking and setting Axel up as an eventual bus.
I don't feel like spoon feeding everyone all this associatives because it's Day 1, but I expect this trio read to be taken seriously if whoever we lynch scum today. It won't have been an accident.

VOTE: Luxord

[II Xigbar]

Remember when I said that thing about Larxene being scum because of the way they talked about their townread Luxord like they were hedging?
Would also make sense if they were scum and knew the person they were talking about was scum and were hedging for that reason instead

[II Xigbar]

Axel's the most excludable tbh. He might be town. He might be scum for sure, but he also might be town. Although I would never bring him to LyLo after Larx and Lux flip scum.

[II Xigbar]

You thought you were off doing some kind of test, right? Well, test this—how come you're wearing the same clothes if you're already back home? You are not gonna wake up, okay? Look—there's no real versus dreams anymore. There's just you, us, and this.

Still don't think Larxene's claim was scum tbh.

You're entitled to your opinion but not to defend them tomorrow if Luxord pans out.

[II Xigbar]

Newsflash: You don't know who the [----] Larxene is, or what they would do as scum. I can think of several people who would do that. I'd say at least 30% of people would potentially do that.\

Can I say I hate Saix's posts in that area regardless of Xaldin's alignment?

I think you can say that you hate his posts in that area if Xaldin flips town, I don't really agree with the opposite. I don't think he's scum though.

[II Xigbar]

VOTE: Roxas
Explain or die.

This vote is pretty ew as well.

It's fucking awful, I agree. But is it necessarily scummy? I feel like he's an older player based on the Thor reference that wouldn't necessarily react well to reaction tests.

[II Xigbar]

You're entitled to your opinion but not to defend them tomorrow if Luxord pans out.

Euurrrggghhh I mean I can't promise that if they start doing shit and I think it's town shit, but as things stand I can't see a reason to bother if you end up proven right on your theories so... A tentative okay?

If I lynch scum and end up dead do you think you're entitled to push your reads over mine?

[II Xigbar]

More votes, more ability to directly impose your will on town.

[II Xigbar]

However, Luxord is just scum.

Let's go for this, eh?

[II Xigbar]

I mean I can make ANOTHER case today but I've made so many cases and I'm just so weary of making cases.

[II Xigbar]

Okay so the mods are jerks.
I was under the impression that if there was intent to cast the second vote in bold it'd work.

But in order to actually cast the vote, I need to use the

exact

key phrase to do so.

Give me strength!

Now

I'm a double-voter and Xaldin has a second vote from me on him automatically.

Hey no Xaldin. Come slay the person you had as lock scum. Don'cha know first impressions are good shit?

[II Xigbar]

VOTE: Luxord

I'll join you there but only if the Xaldin wagon falls apart. (Which is going to be harder because of having my double-vote.)

This is not something that I like. I'm going to make sad noises at you until you fix this.

*pouts*

[II Xigbar]

I promise you, Roxas, you are not anonymous to a single fucking person in this game. You're pretty damn distinctive.

[II Xigbar]

Impulse control is for those who don't lynch scum.

[II Xigbar]

I mean given that

somebody

was doing

something

I can understand why people would slot you in as a different, california based person rather than yourself.

[II Xigbar]

I truly find it difficult to believe that you don't recognize me as town here and it makes me want to scumread you.
But I get it and I've been burned on reads like that before and I just don't want to make this a big deal today.

I can't tell you what to read me on because if I was scum I'd lie and if I'm town I'm probably inclined to lie as well because the honest answer in terms of maximizing winrates is that the best way to deal with me is to let me do my thing until I get nightkilled or lynch me in late game if I'm still alive. But that's going to cause a decent number of unnecessary town losses and you're probably not going to be able to lynch me late game after I've had several day phases to cement my position. And if you are, I've planned for the eventuality and it's not going to bring you any closer to a win.

So really my answer is that if you want to win the most games as you possibly can involving me, the best way is to never scumread me.
But I accept that despite its obvious truth no one is going to accept that answer.

I'm legitimately trying to read you and I feel like my progression on you should make that kind of obvious.

Honestly I'd kind of like to see you copped if any of my current scumreads flips town just because it feels so wrong to me that you're scumreading me, but again I'm not sure what I should think there and I've been burned a lot of times with thinking that people should townread me.

So I'll just, like, assume that you wouldn't have gone the direction that you did earlier as scum for no reason and hope you're town.

And I'm sure someone will scumread me for this, but I feel like this would be obvtown coming from anyone else so I'm fine with it.

[II Xigbar]

There are 17 hours left in this game. If we no lynch attempting to lynch this slot today do you think there's a chance in hell that we don't assume that the NL happened because scum weren't voting and quicklynch them tomorrow?

You're voting them or you're ensuring that Saix isn't just not lynched today, you're also ensuring he's not lynched tomorrow.

[II Xigbar]

And that's at both of you: same deal goes for you Saix. If you're 100% sure that Axel is scum then you have a bunch of us willing to support it tomorrow, but if you force a NL we're voting anywhere else.

[II Xigbar]

I am not Thor, but it is not at all unusual for people whom know me to join wagons because I am on them even if they weren't convinced that they were scum before.

[II Xigbar]

There is never this much resistance to a town wagon at EOD and that's just facts.

[II Xigbar]

There are 17 hours left in this game. If we no lynch attempting to lynch this slot today do you think there's a chance in hell that we don't assume that the NL happened because scum weren't voting and quicklynch them tomorrow?

You're voting them or you're ensuring that Saix isn't just not lynched today, you're also ensuring he's not lynched tomorrow.

I agree with this but I just read Luxord 1's posts and damn is it hard to compromise here.

I'll read this in the morning (~6 hours) but I would much rather an actually shitty slot like Marluxia here. Player will continue to prod dodge an give minimal content. Xemnas also fits this case but well...

You asked to townblock with me. I can buy you being town and Luxord/Larxene having some other scumpartner. Work with me then.

[II Xigbar]

If you're trying to fight an Axel lynch and they flip scum you are guaranteeing your lynch at some point in the game. Regardless of your alignment just vote.

[II Xigbar]

Erm. Luxord lynch. You know what it is.

[II Xigbar]

Pedit: Why would my claim make any difference in the matter?

Of course it would make a difference. But if you're the one stuck with the ninja and/or strongman which you can't exactly claim for towncred, well, unfortunate.

[II Xigbar]

Luxord would you wagon Larxene here?

[II Xigbar]

Investigative-immune, eh?
Sounds like a GF if ya ask me

Sounds like someone doesn't know what I'm claiming! If I was a Godfather a cop would get a town result on me~

And sure, if you want to say it in a totally confusing way. Immune to investigations, that's it. They just fail.

Yes, I understand what you mean.
My point is, semantics aside, Cops are useless on you, just like on a GF, albeit somewhat less powerful.
How does that help a loyal member of the Organization? It doesn't.

Therefore, you're a traitor.

Investigative-immune, eh?
Sounds like a GF if ya ask me

Sounds like someone doesn't know what I'm claiming! If I was a Godfather a cop would get a town result on me~

And sure, if you want to say it in a totally confusing way. Immune to investigations, that's it. They just fail.

Yes, I understand what you mean.
My point is, semantics aside, Cops are useless on you, just like on a GF, albeit somewhat less powerful.
How does that help a loyal member of the Organization? It doesn't.

Therefore, you're a traitor.

Wait why are they a traitor as opposed to a full fledged scum member?

Sorry, my bad. They are full fledged scum, I just meant traitor as in the flavor.
Should have said treacherous or just scum like I did the first time.

Writing this slot off as town was a fucking mistake

[II Xigbar]

12 Larxene: Mass tracker counter, bla
5 Lexaeus: Strongman
+1

[II Xigbar]

Mehhhhhhh
Guess there doesn't like, HAVE to be a strongman.

Luxord, if you vote Larxene I'll swing my weight to make that lynch happen over yours.

[II Xigbar]

Nvm Lexaeus isn't actually scummy I guess. I think I'm just panicking for no reasons.

[II Xigbar]

That's what's called arm twisting.
If I have to go by this logic, same goes true for you if Axel turns scum. And that's a stupid logic. At L-2, scumpartners will be running to be on the wagon. Not resisting it.
In any case, feel free to lynch me tomorrow whatever be the outcome today. You will surely find a lot of support.

Man. I have been defending you this whole game. I'm one of the major reasons that you didn't get lynched. Give me something.

[II Xigbar]

It's sort of funny that I just had a complete panic attack over my inability to figure out who the strongman on the scumteam was and wanted to change all the wagons for it, lol.

[II Xigbar]

What about not at all?

[II Xigbar]

I sort of believe the claim.

And I don't see what scum role they'd tack onto that.

And, uh, the fatalism kinda feels genuine.

[II Xigbar]

Tell me right now what town player actually worries about getting a certain lynch - rather than A lynch - 11 days before the deadline.

WHAT THE FUCK??????????????????????????

[II Xigbar]

why would town care who they lynch derp durr

[II Xigbar]

VOTE: Axel?

[II Xigbar]

And can we actually just get a cop onto Zexion?

[II Xigbar]

Honestly I just want to lynch Larxene but I don't think that we have time. So, of the alternatives, Axel seems the best sicne I already know we have a few votes there.

VOTE: Axel

[II Xigbar]

Think it's still Axel/Larxene + I have one wrong read somewhere.

[II Xigbar]

My how the time does fly.

Luxord's claim is... interesting. I also believe it, though I disagree that it doesn't make sense as scum. While it isn't an explicitly scummy role, it seems to me like it's got decent benefit either way.

And Xigbar, I've gotta ask...
What made you think there was a Strongman in the first place? It's not really a role I see super often... Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen it in ANY of my games on-site.

This slot is not only scum it's probably the strongman.

[II Xigbar]

(between boldly lying about not having seen the role and just the format of the question, feels bad. As for an answer, if scum don't have a strongman my role is literally game breaking)

[II Xigbar]

Xigbar, please point out to me where I said that I was scumreading you.

Not what I said or at least meant. Long list of things that I've done that I feel like you'd outright townread. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but that's how I feel.

[II Xigbar]

Of all the wagons with votes it's the only one that I think may flip scum.

[II Xigbar]

Bluntly it's not about you, though you being willing to jump on here is being taken into consideration.

[II Xigbar]

I'm not lying.

I know the role exists and has been used, but I cannot recall a game I personally have been in with one

You can't say that when you keep slipping and everyone knows who you are.

[II Xigbar]

That feels bad

[II Xigbar]

oh man

[II Xigbar]

Man you did roll scum

I'm so mad rn

[II Xigbar]

just gonna call this a town loss and go do useful shit

later

[II Xigbar]

not only has he played a game with a strongman but he played with one super, super recently that I can't imagine not being fresh enough in his mind to remember

[II Xigbar]

in fact there is a person on this site who may or may not be me who has personally been a strongman in two separate games with them.

[II Xigbar]

I townread Marluxia honestly

[II Xigbar]

I believe I can reference this in this manner

the player RadiantCowbells (who I'm pretty sure is not in this game) has been a strongman twice in games with you, once in Mini Theme 1928 and once in Open 635.

So as someone who is aware of that factoid it feels very uncomfortable to me that you're insisting that strongmen are so, so rare and it feels like you're discrediting the idea of it existing.

[II Xigbar]

Yeah I realized immediately after making that post that it shouldn't be made. Sorry. I'm just frustrated right now and I'm considering replacing out.

[II Xigbar]

ok sorry no replace this game is just really taxing because of all the stuff that I can't say

@Heartless when you cut the altslip cut the information by me that identifies the altslip

[II Xigbar]

I want to disagree on you but I don't have the heart to do so so I'll just leave it. revised

Zexion
Xemnas
Roxas
Xigbar
Saïx
Demyx
^ That's not in order of towniness they're just all 100% town

Marluxia
^ Slightly below 100% town but still really confident

Xaldin
Luxord
^ Probably not scumfucks

Vexen
Axel
Lexaeus
^ Decent chance of being scumfucks

Larxene
^die

[II Xigbar]

Lexaeus, be a darl and vote Axel would you?

Not unless I really really have to, because I just don't think he's scum.

If you want to undestroy your slot you have to start sometime.

[II Xigbar]

Erm. Demyx should be middle category. Roxas down to Marluxia tier. Rest is fine.

[II Xigbar]

Zexion
Xemnas
Xigbar
Saïx
^ That's not in order of towniness they're just all 100% town

Roxas
Marluxia
^ Slightly below 100% town but still really confident

Xaldin
Luxord
^ Probably not scumfucks

Demyx
^Meh

Vexen
Axel
Lexaeus
^ Decent chance of being scumfucks

Larxene
^die

[II Xigbar]

If Roxas shows up in the next hour and doublevotes Larxene I'll be down to try to wagon that.

Otherwise Axel seems like our best bet

[II Xigbar]

Guess I'd speedvote Lex too

[II Xigbar]

Sticking with Axel because it has votes.
I doubt it

[II Xigbar]

I'd buy that.

VOTE: Lexaeus

Can we do this instead? <3

[II Xigbar]

Or, like, Larxene?