Mini Normal 1931 | Endgame

[Flavor Leaf]

...and we are back to this. ME and frog going 2v2 with you guys.
This doesn't help, we are stuck in circles.

NTRP needs to arrive and we need the three of them to discuss.

honestly this is inherently scummy as well. If there are three scum, NTRP/Two are just going to get in the exact same thing we are in. Two's already set that up. If Paul is scum, you guys essentially win already.

[Flavor Leaf]

They likely are waiting for Paul to help convince Thor to lynch me.

[frog]

This is a completely useless and circular discussion, and town would behave in a way that didn't multiply worthless content

So you're calling Una scum now too? Because that's the reason this is happening.

The level of activity suggests that you are the reason this is happening, but, regardless, we're all participating

I maintain the best thing the four of us can do is speak only when we are spoken to

[Flavor Leaf]

This is a completely useless and circular discussion, and town would behave in a way that didn't multiply worthless content

So you're calling Una scum now too? Because that's the reason this is happening.

The level of activity suggests that you are the reason this is happening, but, regardless, we're all participating

I maintain the best thing the four of us can do is speak only when we are spoken to

I always post the most when I'm online.

[Flavor Leaf]

This is a completely useless and circular discussion, and town would behave in a way that didn't multiply worthless content

So you're calling Una scum now too? Because that's the reason this is happening.

The level of activity suggests that you are the reason this is happening, but, regardless, we're all participating

I maintain the best thing the four of us can do is speak only when we are spoken to

And I do essentially that already, except I generally dissect with like 3 posts per spoken to.

[UnaBombaH]

This shows that you set up a fake claim. Also, I could say that same thing to you about my crumbing, except mine isn't setting up an obvious fake claim like yours.

No, wait again.
If I was crumbing a FAKEclaim on RoleCop, then how did I know after N1 that Mario was Bulletproof?

Me trying to bait a reaction from Mario after I was stumped with my theory on rb-Eddie:

unabombah; https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Normal_Game

this will show you all the available roles and modifiers

Yes, I have been studying this extensively, and for example, I'm very disturbed by the fact that now anyone could be bulletproof, and yet not town.

If I understood correctly my research on wiki, it might even be more common on not-town-players in Normal games..?

My first post after Mario claimed Vig:

It breaks my heart, but I think Mario is actually scum here.

These are not crumbs for a fakeclaim, these are crumbs/actions resulting from my N1 check on Mario.

[Flavor Leaf]

Fuck off. You know I meant faking the setup for a town role cop which you proved when you stated "I am Town Role Cop." Sure, nobody is going to take that seriously right now, but post game that will indeed be seen as a tell.

[Flavor Leaf]

Hey, guys. I'm here. If SD was a vig shot, then TB is likely town.

My first post Day 2.

[Flavor Leaf]

Before any vig claims.

[Flavor Leaf]

It breaks my heart, but I think Mario is actually scum here.
Worrysome for my future games where he might be present, because I got the exact same read of him that I've gotten in previous games, and in those he was town even though I doubted him.

Good job on Flavor Leaf for actually enduring and pushing it through.
I would not have seen it so clearly if I hadn't just re-read Mario in my paranoia, and noticed how similar FL vs Mario is compared to Mulch vs Mario, on a larger canvas.
And we all know what happened there.
I'm glad I didn't open my mouth during any of that, I might have given him a chance to side-track.

INTENT TO HAMMER

. Mario, apparently you have already claimed, so I'm not sure if I just wait for your last reads or what?
Or do I wait for anything?

Also: I am 90% sure there is at least on scum in his wagon now that he was put on L-1.
PROBABLY NOT Flavor Leaf, but it's not completely off the table.
Wavemode, Game Replacement, NotTheRealPaul and Dunkerdoodles are IMO where we should at least start tomorrow.

Also, note how Una only quoted part of this and omitted the good job to me. You said here "you would not have seen it so clearly if I hadn't just re-read in my paranoia" along with "I'm glad I didn't open my mouth during any of that, I might have given him a chance to side track". NO YOU WOULDNT HAVE IF YOU CAUGHT HIM OUT LYING.

Also note the four people that he posted should start with tomorrow, none of them are people that he's likely scum with. Two of those people are FLIPPED TOWN PR's.

This goes directly against what you just said, and you only showed parts of your quote to make a point. Please see this, Thor and whoever is town out of Paul/Two.

[UnaBombaH]

Also, note how Una only quoted part of this and omitted the good job to me. You said here "you would not have seen it so clearly if I hadn't just re-read in my paranoia" along with "I'm glad I didn't open my mouth during any of that, I might have given him a chance to side track". NO YOU WOULDNT HAVE IF YOU CAUGHT HIM OUT LYING.

Also note the four people that he posted should start with tomorrow, none of them are people that he's likely scum with. Two of those people are FLIPPED TOWN PR's.

This goes directly against what you just said, and you only showed parts of your quote to make a point. Please see this, Thor and whoever is town out of Paul/Two.

Frankly I didn't want to full out claim unless I had to.
Look at how I backtracked in twilight because I hinted too much to Mario.

[Flavor Leaf]

It breaks my heart, but I think Mario is actually scum here.

These are not crumbs for a fakeclaim, these are crumbs/actions resulting from my N1 check on Mario.

It breaks my heart, but I think Mario is actually scum here.
Worrysome for my future games where he might be present, because I got the exact same read of him that I've gotten in previous games, and in those he was town even though I doubted him.

Good job on Flavor Leaf for actually enduring and pushing it through.

I would not have seen it so clearly if I hadn't just re-read Mario in my paranoia,

and noticed how similar FL vs Mario is compared to Mulch vs Mario, on a larger canvas.
And we all know what happened there.

I'm glad I didn't open my mouth during any of that, I might have given him a chance to side-track.

INTENT TO HAMMER

.

Mario, apparently you have already claimed, so I'm not sure if I just wait for your last reads or what?

Or do I wait for anything?

Also: I am 90% sure there is at least on scum in his wagon now that he was put on L-1.
PROBABLY NOT Flavor Leaf, but it's not completely off the table.

Wavemode, Game Replacement, NotTheRealPaul and Dunkerdoodles

are IMO where we should at least start tomorrow.

All of what I just bolded directly contradicts what Una said about her heart breaking comment crumbing that Mario was your result, and it only makes sense if you are a SCUM role cop because the rest of your post is pushing Mario as maybe not scum.

"I thought he could be SK which can help town." No, just no. You knew he was lying, so if you thought he could be SK, it only makes sense for that thought if you are scum, and then someone directly lies against your result. By no means could there have been a chance for him to side track if a Town Role Cop opened their mouth after getting a result on someone that you 100% knew was lying.

Hook, Line, and Sinker. You're done. This is over. You are caught out scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, note how Una only quoted part of this and omitted the good job to me. You said here "you would not have seen it so clearly if I hadn't just re-read in my paranoia" along with "I'm glad I didn't open my mouth during any of that, I might have given him a chance to side track". NO YOU WOULDNT HAVE IF YOU CAUGHT HIM OUT LYING.

Also note the four people that he posted should start with tomorrow, none of them are people that he's likely scum with. Two of those people are FLIPPED TOWN PR's.

This goes directly against what you just said, and you only showed parts of your quote to make a point. Please see this, Thor and whoever is town out of Paul/Two.

Frankly I didn't want to full out claim unless I had to.
Look at how I backtracked in twilight because I hinted too much to Mario.

1) I just stated how you absolutely did not hint as a "town" role cop.
2) No comment on the omitting of said quote that contradicts everything he's been saying.
3) YOU HAD THE RESULT WHICH PROVED HE WAS LYING AND YOU WEREN'T EVEN ON THE WAGON!!!!!!

@Thor and whichever of Paul/Two are town, it's on you guys from here. I have made so many actual cases on the potential scum teams, while all Una/Frog do is "oh, from my perspective" cases I have done that, sure, but I have also actually made cases that don't rely on perspective, which is something they haven't done at all.

[NotTheRealPaul]

I stopped reading the FL/una back and forth.

I did some deep (okay not that deep) thinking about this and have areived at the conclusion that one lynch wont reveal everyone's alignment. Everyone being fl/gr/una/frog.

I had a post typed out about he different scenarios but I accidentally deleted it. But I'd just like it to be clear that there are possibilities where frog/gr are scum, frog/una are scum, gr is scum with no partners, fl is scum and gr is town, etc.

Pretty much one lynch doesnt solve this situation.

Anyway what do ppl want from me?

[frog]

I have made so many actual cases on the potential scum teams, while all Una/Frog do is "oh, from my perspective" cases I have done that, sure, but

I have also actually made cases that don't rely on perspective

, which is something they haven't done at all.

No you have not

[frog]

What I mean by that: every time you say 'town does not do this' you mean 'frog did it and he is scum from my perspective so town does not do this'

[frog]

Anyway what do ppl want from me?

Eventually a vote, but incisive questions would help out thor and TiaM and give the four of us something to do rather than going 'nuh-huh' 'yuh-huh' to each other repeatedly

[TwoInAMillion]

I think Flavor knew that Eddie was town and got him lynched on purpose and now is trying to save his skin.

[NotTheRealPaul]

also im feeling a bit under the weather so like i may just dissappear. it kinda depends. i'll try to check in though.

pedit:incisive questions?

i mean at this point its whoever u believe more right? like no one is really confscum from my perspective its just a series of 1v1s.

fl seems to be making some sorta case on una scum (i skimmed a bit dont really know what theyre talking about) and the rest is just "ur scum from my perspective".

idk who to vote atm

pedit2: i think two's analysis is bad. it seems very surface level.

[Game Replacement]

I think Flavor knew that Eddie was town and got him lynched on purpose and now is trying to save his skin.

He's town otherwise i would have died.
Una is shitting Scum every where. And I'm counting on your hammer yesterday being town.

[frog]

I think Flavor knew that Eddie was town and got him lynched on purpose and now is trying to save his skin.

He's town otherwise i would have died.
Una is shitting Scum every where. And I'm counting on your hammer yesterday being town.

Wrong, you never visited him...

[frog]

pedit:incisive questions?

If you have any doubts anywhere, want a post explained, want actions explained, and so on, now is a good time to ask

[frog]

If you wanted a case by me on Flavor Leaf and Game Replacement, for instance, I can provide, but I do think your comments here

i mean at this point its whoever u believe more right? like no one is really confscum from my perspective its just a series of 1v1s.

Are essentially correct

[TwoInAMillion]

I think Flavor knew that Eddie was town and got him lynched on purpose and now is trying to save his skin.

He's town otherwise i would have died.
Una is shitting Scum every where. And I'm counting on your hammer yesterday being town.

How's that?

[Thor665]

GR is Vanilla. Thor is Vanilla.
I'm leaning back to lynching Flavor honestly, but I want to reach that decision TOGETHER.

NTRP and TiaM, open your mouths again.

Lynching Flavor first is objectively the dumber decision if you and Frog are even half telling the truth.
Then again, we lynched Eddie yesterday off Flavor embracing dumb logic also, so I can't rule anything out - but I do know that I am presenting pure logic and your response to pure logic for, from your perspective, 100% assured scum lynch is "waaaaah, maybe they're protecting a PR for 1 night!" to which my reply is "how would that actually help scum? Like, what power would that need to be? Because unless it has multi-kill powers it doesn't.

I'm getting tired of debating illogic.

OK Thor, talk with me through this then.

Do you believe that scum has a PR in the game?
And if they do, what kind of power would you assume?

Sure, there are far too many PRs to expect all scum are Goons.
I don't have enough info to draw a conclusion about what power scum have, I don't think anyone does.
I'd tend to expect that both of our rolecops are probably claiming their role honestly and one is lying about alignment, as a rolecop with this many town PRs seems like very likely scum power. As to the rest, it sort of depends on the 2 ir 3 scum question. I personally see little logic to anyone advancing a 3 scum group claim, so tend to expect a Goon/Rolecop but could buy a Goon/Blocking power pretty easily.

Since you apparently think there are 3 scum, why don't you explain your theory balance?

Considering what I done had 2 out 2 Scum, while you sit there ready for a mis Lynch, no I'm not worse.
I had Eddie as 3rd Scum and his Scum flip just made my claim set.
He was town but was pushing FL as Scum when I knew he was town. That's not bad play

Ediie was provably a bad lynch yesterday, so, yeah, you're worse.

Scum avoid wagons all the time if they don't have to join. You know This, I know this.
I can show wagons in majority games pushed by Scum I can show wagons majority of games pushed by town.

How many games can you show 0 wagons pushed by scum?
Because that's what we have here if you and Flavor are both town.
I may have seen that, I suppose, but it's assuredly very rare if it does happen. I don't recall ever seeing it...have you?

I still say Flavor and NTRP are scum.

Why do you think that?
And why do you think BOTH GameReplacement and Frog are town?
Because I'm pretty sure that's impossible.

I do realize that from his perspective nothing is set on stone, but its hard to understand his hesitation when everything is factual/logical to yourself.

My hesitation is that I'm debating between GR and scum logical voting vs. you and Frog pushing an illogical lynch target which makes your behavior feel scum motivated and also a bit of unease of how you though best to react and investigate a functional counterclaim to yourself.
My questions to both sides are pretty clear on my issues, as I'm sort of outright saying them over and over and looking for answers.
I may seem slow - but I can't imagine you can be confused as to my actual issues.

Like, I've repeatedly shown why both you and Frog should 100% be certain on GR and some % less than 100% on Flavor and yet I'm having to scream my throat raw to get votes moved all while both of you agree with every point of logic I'm bringing up other than the idea of what town should do with that info (which, apparently in your mind, is vote the less sure scum).

Anyway what do ppl want from me?

How about which of Frog and GR you think is scum and why?