Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[humaneatingmonkey]

#840
I'll try to reply to Dark Horse's case.

OMGUS:
Your argument is fair. However, you need to account my level of engagement to the thread. When Korts was grilling me early game, I still had a large grasp of the gamestate and I'm reasonably confident with what I think about players. By the time that I was OMGUS-ing hard, I had low information. Basically someone with a knife at the dark with hands touching me all-over. Do you imagine the image? That's what the paranoia looked like that's why I was down to OMGUS.

Targetting lynchbait:
I think you're putting an overarching narrative to my complex situation. But that's okay because that's NAI and reasonable. When I was posting past the post I declared that I am busy at work, I was just posting to avoid being replaced. So my play became analyzing the popular wagons and seeing if it was something I can get behind. I understand your concern that I have been asking a lot of questions that doesn’t seem content with actually following through and gamesolve. But "a lot of questions" is a misrepresentation of it. And I have been less intent to gamesolve because I was avoiding mafiascum around that time.

Also, if you think targetting lynchbait is a scumtell, you should look at yourself.

Vecna Flip-flop:
The sudden townread of Vecna is a genuine move. I also genuinely believed that if we have had a deadline extension, it would have been announced already. The thought came from Eddie Cane dropping that—that was his original thought. So your "Either he was scum who figured that since him or none of his scumbuds had passed for a deadline extension" actually apply to Eddie.

"he figured it woudn’t be a vecna lynch" the Vecna lynch was gonna happen more likely that it was not before I declared that I did not want to lynch Vecna. You should read that part again.

Weird interactions:
I can see where this is coming from, but you're wrong. You said this:

"He claims that he was “more interested in what others have to say” but he doesn’t really follow up anywhere else. He later answers some questions and goes “this is almost making me rethink my read on you,”but once again korts doesn’t follow up on it."

Which I think is a fair point that is worth considering. But consider another angle where I'm town.
------
Page 34

#831
THIS is the assemble defense I was talking about.
#830
TChill dismisses attempts at a real conversation with this reply. I hate it when people does that to me. Still not an analysis, just a comment. The only confirmation I need is the Night 2 kill.

#834
Eddie making sense. But I can't reevaluate my relationship read because Mafia threads exist and they could have coordinated bussing by now.

#837
I understand Sunlit's stance that it may just be bad play by TChill. Sure, it's less probably. But I understand it.

#839
I can understand Dark Horse's stance on Vecna-Korts.
#840
I think Dark Horse failed to see that Percy's RVS post was more than about the joke. I don't agree with his assessment. I agree that there was a major tone conflict that escalated the argument but you should look at the angle that it's Eddie scum vs Town Robb because Eddie is independently scummy outside of the Robb vs Eddie argument.

#842
Yes I was wrong to say that it was only character. I'm sorry about that. I think I already aggressed this. You can reevaluate me based on my defense.

#843
"I think that Moneky himself realizes that it was a crap reason to scum read me because he has barely mentioned me coming into today. " I haven't realized it yet when I said it. It was just a stab in the dark. I have barely mentioned you because I haven't even caught up. But yes, it's a crap reason.
I disagree with saying that the deadline extension is not an objective assessment. What are the probability that we could have gotten an extension if Vecna was scum? Higher than not. The six votes for extension confirms my theory. You should reconsider that thought.
"The day was almost over, and there was zero set up reading between the lines." I had full believe that my wagon will take off if I did not claim because I was thinking that it was a scum wagon.


Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb,
Null: Grendel, Sunlit Diamond
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[RadiantCowbells]

Will be at computer soon

[humaneatingmonkey]

35-37

#853
This is the exact kind of WIFOM from TChill that makes me wary of the argumentp resent in #837.
TChill NEEDS to flip or confirm by killing.

#854
I don't know how to read this one by Korts.
#858
Korts is consistent in his read on me when the right gameplay for scum is to cast shade on me is town points. But might also be pocketing. But I don't see the value in pocketing me at that point of time. Could it be distancing for when I flip town? I'm gonna file this under NAI.
#893
Korts' analysis on Robb (or everyone for that matter) feels unfair and hyperbolic. It feels villanous.
"come on - how the fuck do you read "we must have blood" as a real reason?" there's a false dichtonomy that it's a joke reason-real reason. My gripe was that it looked like a vote being catious not to draw attention by giving a justification (because didnt vote). It's never because "real reason, not a joke reason", which I think you have misrepresented for far too long.

#864
I was not avoiding you. I was avoiding mafiascum as a whole.

#887 - #892
I standby Gamma Emerald arriving with the intent to understand the game than have an agenda, but the national consensus says it's NAI so I won't argue with that. Instead, I'm gonna evaluate him with his play.
I think Gamma is misrepresenting Korts in his page 3 analysis. He had no way to know or think that I'm an easy target at that point.
Gamma reads Grendelslot as town simply because he agrees with him. Pet peeve.
Actually, Gamma's reads were unsatisfactory still becaue it didn't go into the details of why things are good or bad or okay. Some of it was even irrelevant to the gamestate now.
Gamma, can you elaborate on why you townread me? Because I don't think I have been playing as an obvtown this game so you dimissing me as town without paranoia is suspicious.
#910
Gamma, why were you reading Vecna's as leantown?
#916
Gamma has a good catch about massive's #778. But since nancy is already town by consensus, any read that glorifies her makes me feel like it's either genuine or seeking towncred. So I don't think that will make me bump massive up. However, Gamma seeing this from massive makes me put on some towncred on him.
Gamma, what do you think about #823 now that I've pointed out that TChill voted him as soon as the Day 2 starts? Do you smell inconsistency?

#909
This confirms what we already know about Robbnva. He's locked in a confbias town or determined scum. Look at that. That's not a reason to scumread Eddie. It was a legitimate condition by Eddie.

Reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb, Gamma Emerald
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

[humaneatingmonkey]

OH MY GOD I'VE FINALLY PAID ALL MY DEBTS. TIME TO LURK FOR ANOTHER 2 WEEKS AGAIN!

38-44

#929
I'll entertain you, nancy. What do you think of my thoughts and reads thus far?

#930
I stand by with what my reads were, Korts. I think "terribly contrived" is such a limited thing to see it. Which is NAI for you.
#932
I could understand why that might feel deflection. It mostly was. I thought your argument was NAI and I was trying you to join a wagon I care about instead of seeing the argument you made take off because it's bullcrap and you know it.
Still the same level of villainous assertion with no intent to sort from Korts. Zealous town or scum? Well he hasn't lied, just overly hyperbolic so it could still be NAI.

#934 #936 #938
Robb is starting to be stupid. He's now in the dangerous line between scummy and NAI territory. That hardheadedness feels too anti-town to be town now.
#949
Eddie hasn't been trolling for a while now, just playing bad if hes town.
#955
Feels like a genuine frustrated town with a bad playstyle.
#961
On the other hand, using the same Eddie is a troll argument makes me feel like it's just a personal beef. What makes you so sure that you've caught the actual scum with the interaction you had with them so far?
#971
But your unwillingness to cooperate with others makes you the one who's not progressing the game.
#1000
"Nothing but troll" is a misrepresentation of Eddie's behavior that you should avoid doing, Robb. Robb, compile a more objective and fair analysis of Eddie.
#1033
Critizing his predecessor wasn't what I expected for him to do. I just wanted him to read you with the understanding that Percy was indeed scummy and maybe you had a reason to act like a charging bull.

#970
Dark Horse, what's your read on Eddie?

#974
Gamma, I can see what you mean, but do you also mean that you don't think Eddie can be a leading wagon?
#989
Why were you open to lynch Eddie, a townread, just to pocket Robb into lynching Korts? That's bad. That's very bad.
#999
What was the reason for preventing someone from reading someone in depth? Wouldn't that benefit town? Still bad.
#1023
"I'm just trying to guide massive on his read on him." Why did you feel the need to do that, Gamma?

#993
"Because operating under the premise that town wouldn't lie is utterly obtuse."
Grendel, why do you assume that it's Robb's reason for tunnelling Eddie?

Penultimate catch-up reads so far:

Confirmed Town: Ari/Vecna
Town: Nancy
Leantown:
Nulltown: Dark Horse, Robb,
Null: Grendel
Nullscum: Massive, Korts, Gamma Emerald
Leanscum:
Scum: Assemble, Eddie Cane

One thing left: VCA Analysis.

[Robbnva]

H MY GOD I'VE FINALLY PAID ALL MY DEBTS. TIME TO LURK FOR ANOTHER 2 WEEKS AGAIN!

Please be joking

[RadiantCowbells]

And btw with these wagons

Lynch Vote 4.12

Gorkington (7): Leonshade, Vecna, MathBlade, davesaz, Nero Cain, CloudKicker, Lil Uzi Vert
Leonshade (5): Brian Skies, NoticeMeSenpai, Gorkington, Alisae, nancy
davesaz (1): Maxous

Not Voting (3): KidAmn, Caesar Wills It, Creature


Scum have basically nowhere to hide.

If there are 2 scum off the Gork wagon then they have to move both onto it to get the hammer. Which they won't do just to lynch this. I know that town!Caesar won't hammer Gork, and I hope to god that Creature doesn't make the mistake of voting Gork.

pedit based on Cloud. He didn't defend someone via meta that I know he's capable of easily defending.

At this stage in the game, 3/5 of the scum were voting the counterwagon to the wagon on Gorkington, who was scum.
nancy flipped out and decided that scum had nowhere to hide because they were clearly trying to strongarm the Gorkington lynch.
Whoops.

Civilization Mafia Mafia:

Votecount 2.44:

Eddie Cane (3): Robbnva, Ginngie, Tchill13
humaneatingmonkey (2): Dark Horse, Grendel
Tchill13 (2): massive, Assemblerotws
Korts (1): Gamma Emerald
Robbnva (1): Eddie Cane
Assemblerotws (0):
Grendel (0):
massive (0):
Gamma Emerald (0):
Ginngie (0):
nancy (0):
Dark Horse (0):

Not Voting: nancy, humaneatingmonkey, Korts

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

The day has begun and will end in (expired on 2017-08-29 23:00:00).

Spoiler: Remaining Posts:

Korts: 50
Ginngie: 51
humaneatingmonkey: 27
Game Replacement:
Gamma Emerald: 18
Robbnva: 11
Grendel: 56
massive: 53
Dark Horse: 47
Assemblerotws: 67
nancy: 64
Tchill13: 33

Game Replacement replaces Eddie Cane! Please welcome them.

Note that: Gamma Emerald has 18 posts remaining and Robbnva has 11 posts remaining.

[humaneatingmonkey]

Okay after being discouraged from VCA by a guy with initials "R" and "C" in the sitechat, I decided not to do painstaking VCA.

I'm gonna VOTE: Assemblerotws, or his replacement..
Ginngie better be a D3 innocent child or I'll lynch her.
Since my analysis is that there's only one or no scum between Assemble and Tchill, TChill killing Assemble doesn't make the best town strategy. However, according to my analysis, scum!Percy/Eddie + scum!TChill is probable. So it's better for TChill to confirm his Vigilante claim by killing Eddie Cane tonight. Or -anyone- that isn't Ginngie or me. Anyway, he believes Eddie Cane is the best lynch today anyway.
TChill better confirm his role or I lynch him tomorrow.

If we lynch Eddie today and vig Assemble tonight, it yields the same results and I'm okay with that. But I'll be more comfortable with TChill volunteering to vig Eddie than TChill volunteering to vig Assemble.

@Korts, what do you think of Ginngie?

[humaneatingmonkey]

Actually, I chose poorly. There's already a wagon on Eddie. Lynch Eddie, vig Assemble. VOTE: Eddie Cane, or his replacement

[Ginngie]

lol you've voted the people I've been wanting lynched!

I'm proud of you monkey! \o/

[humaneatingmonkey]

Be a D3 innocent child or else.

[Ginngie]

I am confusion.

you have me as scum

you're waiting for my IC to pop

However, reads wise, ignoring the IC,

you agree with me?

[humaneatingmonkey]

I had you as scum but didn't bother to analyze past the point I basically said I'll just wait for you to pop for convenience. But skimming through your posts, you look as if you've been doing things that makes most sense as town. I probably have you between Null and Nulltown.

However, if you took your time to read my catch-up posts, the Eddie Cane and Assemble ISO is whack.

[Ginngie]

Tbh ever since getting into college my involvement has dropped drastically

[Grendel]

UNVOTE:

I've barely read anything yet, but I feel kind of lost so I guess I'll reassess myself

...after I get sleep

Pre-edit

I am confusion.

Hi confusion I'm dad

Don't really see a point in forming an opinion on Ginnige until D3 happens

[Tchill13]

Can we please lynch Eddie and get on with this?

[Ginngie]

lmfa fucking O


GAME REPLACEMENT

[Tchill13]

VOTE: game replacement

Lol Ginngie thanks for saying something

[Ginngie]

VOTE: The Game Replacement

[Game Replacement]

Okay. Stop. I. Am. Town.
Yay \o/

[humaneatingmonkey]

Good to see you again Vedith. Why is your slot not scum? Any insights?

[Game Replacement]

Good to see you again Vedith. Why is your slot not scum? Any insights?

Mod wouldn't let me be.
Plus I've already been Scum this month.

[massive]

So flip it. What has Eddie done that's town and tchill that's scum

This isn't about me. I don't think you could have been following this game and NOT thought Tchill was scummy. This is about you saying (paraphrasing) "I don't care if Eddie is scum or bad town, I want them gone" and trying to determine what your criteria is for bad town to want them gone. You clearly don't have any problem with Tchill who (if town) has not exactly played a scintillating game. And your argument against Persephone originally wasn't "he's trolled all game." There's a disconnect and you are not doing a good job of providing a realistic answer. Calling it me "discrediting you and your argument" is horseshit when all I'm trying to get is a straight answer and you can't or aren't giving one.

You claim that you voted for him because he asked these questions just to ask questions. How is that a valid scumread? And you can't say that "it's because he was just asking questions that doesn't influence his reads" because your vote post was your first reply to him. He couldn't have made any progress with that before you made your conclusion about it.

I don't see why that wouldn't be a valid scumread, that's absolutely something scum do -- ask questions without caring what the answers are, or making it obvious that the answers don't matter to them. But you know what's weird, is that I was 200% confident when you took up this line that he had voted for me without letting me answer this, and so I went back to quote it and ... it's not as offensive as I thought at first read-through. Yes, he's building off of (at best) "assumed answers" to the questions he asked without actually waiting for the answer, and making an argument based on associatives to justify his scumread equally based on whether the associative is town or scum, and ... well no now that I look at it again it was pretty bad all around. You skim past it in your catchup, can you review this and give me your opinion?

[Gamma Emerald]

Resonding to monkey:
"I think Gamma is misrepresenting Korts in his page 3 analysis. He had no way to know or think that I'm an easy target at that point." Maybe you weren't an easy target but you were certainly not anyone worth pushing at that point.
"Gamma reads Grendelslot as town simply because he agrees with him. Pet peeve." That's wrong, I believe Grendel's play here comes from his towngame.
"Actually, Gamma's reads were unsatisfactory still becaue it didn't go into the details of why things are good or bad or okay. Some of it was even irrelevant to the gamestate now." Well yeah some might be but I wanted to show my thought process as I was reading.
"Gamma, can you elaborate on why you townread me? Because I don't think I have been playing as an obvtown this game so you dimissing me as town without paranoia is suspicious." Basically your beginning play and your claim are what make it solid.
"#910
Gamma, why were you reading Vecna's as leantown?" Because his reads felt genuine. I did initially take issue with him sasying he agreed with Korts' reads but apparently that turned around once the readslist was posted by Korts.
"#916
Gamma has a good catch about massive's #778. But since nancy is already town by consensus, any read that glorifies her makes me feel like it's either genuine or seeking towncred. So I don't think that will make me bump massive up. However, Gamma seeing this from massive makes me put on some towncred on him." Wait can you explain what you mean here?
"Gamma, what do you think about #823 now that I've pointed out that TChill voted him as soon as the Day 2 starts? Do you smell inconsistency?" Not really, the vote was just "let's finish what we started" in my eyes.
"#974
Gamma, I can see what you mean, but do you also mean that you don't think Eddie can be a leading wagon?" I think that the mindset Robb was showing was indictive of a possible split in votes that would result in a no lynch
"#989
Why were you open to lynch Eddie, a townread, just to pocket Robb into lynching Korts? That's bad. That's very bad." I was trying to ensure that I had someone pushing with me the next day, as well as carrying the torch if I got nightkilled.
"#999
What was the reason for preventing someone from reading someone in depth? Wouldn't that benefit town? Still bad." Um you still want me to answer this?
"#1023
"I'm just trying to guide massive on his read on him." Why did you feel the need to do that, Gamma?" Because I felt massive wasn't really giving him a fair shake.

In other news:
Welcome to GR! How much have you read? Any reads yet? I think you're town but people are lining up to lynch you.

[Game Replacement]

In other news:
Welcome to GR! How much have you read? Any reads yet? I think you're town but people are lining up to lynch you.

I haven't read anything and I have games night tonight so it will have to wait until tomorrow.
Why am I town for you though?

[Game Replacement]

This was a great talk.
I'm going to games night shortly.