Game of Thrones

[xRECKONERx]

we now have 3 threads, which is just ridiculous

[xRECKONERx]

especially since it's not so much the books spoiling the show anymore as much as it is them being completely separate. so do we need a Book Thread, Show Thread, and Crossover/Comparison thread?

[xRECKONERx]

want to respond to a thought here but it's also book relevant

this

[xRECKONERx]

R+L=J confirmed last night for any keen watchers

also uhhh I was really disappointed by the Sand Snakes?

ALSO holy shit that Stannis scene with his daughter was the best part of the season so far.

[xRECKONERx]

I get

why

they did it. Sure, they needed to establish the Harpys as a real threat, but I think more importantly, it creates an opportunity for Jorah to return. Daario left to go do stuff. Grey Worm is incapacitated, the Unsullied decimated. Selmy is dead. I don't see Missandei being a big help since she's not really an "advisor"... which means, yes, Dany will welcome the hell out of any help she can get from Jorah + Tyrion. I also wish we kinda knew what Varys was doing now since AFAIK he's still just chillin' at the brothel. But it does feel kind of cheap to have Selmy die just to open the door for Jorah to reenter the picture. The Harpys were threatening enough just by having them take out Unsullied. We didn't need to see a completely unrealistic, asinine riot/fight scene with Grey Worm & Barristan to drive that home. *shrug* I thought the fighting was really sloppy and almost made me giggle at the idea of Unsullied being great fighters.

Sansa's storyline and the stuff at the Wall are now the most interesting friggin' things on the show, and that's saying a lot considering my least favorite thing for the past 4 seasons has been "anything happening in the North". I'm very interested to see how Sansa follows LF's advice to, "Take Ramsay, make him yours". Stannis/daughter was touching. Melisandre basically confirmed some shit about Jon. Jon got a good moment or two as Lord Commander, and even Sam was tolerable. The confirmation that Mel is marching to Winterfell w/ Stannis and company is truly intriguing to me. We see them leaving the Wall next week, so I think we're headed towards a battle before the end of the season.

Spoiler: Tinfoil Stannis Theory

Anyone else feel like they're building up to this whole Brienne thing as a way to kill Stannis? With no Stoneheart in the show, nobody has really forced Brienne to question her loyalties. This setup where Brienne/Pod + Sansa + Stannis are all converging together is intriguing, because it sets up that dilemma for Brienne without LSH. Sansa's safest place to be is with Stannis. So, is Brienne more devoted to Catelyn and therefore allowing Sansa to say with Stannis in Winterfell? Or, will Brienne let her loyalty to Renly win out and avenge her king's death by offing Stannis? I can't help but feel it's going to be the latter, because I mean, the show is FINALLY making Stannis a sympathetic character this season, and that's just the show's style...

[xRECKONERx]

I'm worried about the fates of some characters moving forward.

Almost surely going to die before end of season based on released plot details/synposis/episode names:

Bronn (dies rescuing Myrcella), Jorah (I think he'll die after going back to Dany by being roasted alive), Meryn Trant (Arya's kill, maybe Syrio reveal?), Mace Tyrell (killed by Trant), Tormund (Hardholme), Jon Snow (For the Watch!), Kevan Lannister (Varys isn't there to kill him, so probably Littlefinger), Pycelle (see Kevan)

Possibly dead before end of season based on purely speculation and no book stuff:

Jamie (how does he get out of Dorne?), Brienne (may die during Sansa rescue), Podrick (can't see him sticking around w/out Brienne), Loras (trial by combat?), Tommen (leaving the throne empty and KL in ruins, Margaery ruined)

[xRECKONERx]

but Obara's monologue was TERRIBLE

[xRECKONERx]

hooooooooooooly shit

[xRECKONERx]

dornish plot real bad

[xRECKONERx]

Things that I immensely liked last night:

• Did you guys forget that Ramsay is actually the worst? Because if you did, you should at least sort of remember that now. That Bolton Family Dinner was just too good... Fat Walda is my fave, and Roose/Ramsay's relationship is such a fucked up dynamic that I'm not sure who is
  actually
  more fucked up between the two of them. All the actors in Winterfell are killing it.
  
• When Brienne started talking about the Starks and the North and trying to rally people to her cause, I'll admit, I got a bit teary-eyed. Brienne is, in a weird way, the last true Stark loyalist out there. Everyone else has accepted their fate and moved on, in a way, but Brienne's fierce devotion to Catelyn is causing her to be the new beacon of House Stark. I love it.
  
• Stannis has gone from "Ugh, him again" to "FUCK YES LOVE STANNIS". His grammar nazism was a nice little human touch to the character. I love his looks as he watched Jon try to lead the Night's Watch -- he sees great things in him and respects him, and that alone boosts Jon's character.
  
• Shireen is adorable and every episode needs more Shireen/Davos scenes. Their dynamic is just the best. Davos is so great with her. IT IS SO ADORABLE.
  
• Jon being all Lord Commandery and trying to make a deal w/ Tormund was awesome. I loved seeing him as a real leader, even as he simultaneously loses the respect of his men. I think he has a chance at pulling this off, but nobody is going to be happy about it, and it actually makes the Wall storyline fantastic.
  
• VALYRIA! STONE MEN! DROGON! That whole scene was good for the pure awe it inspired.

--

What sucked ass about last night:

• Let's be real: the conversion of so many beloved characters on Winterfell (Brienne/Pod, Sansa, Theon, Stannis, Shireen, Davos) can really only mean that we're going to see even more good guys get slaughtered. I have my guesses and suspicions, but who knows with this show? Maybe all of them go down.
  
• The Winterfell plot is obviously the main place where the show has diverged from the books, and it is all the better for it. But that is really causing the other areas that AREN'T in that plot to show signs of being ill-adapted, or at least behind the times. Winterfell is paying off five seasons by FINALLY converging a bunch of characters in the same place and it feels so rewarding. None of the other plots are even close to that and it's frustrating.
  
• The way the attack of the Stone Men was shot was pretty poor, IMO. We were never able to get a clear sense of 'danger' because it was cutting around so much, and it felt sort of silly. There were all of these things around, yet, Tyrion the Imp was able to slowly roll away from them and never be in danger? Even the prolonged black out after Tyrion was dragged under felt cringey.
  
• "Where's the boat?" "Oh, uh... we uh... lost it?" "Where the fuck are we? Why is there a beach now?" "Don't worry about it! But it certainly means that this pointless slow down tactic will stop us from actually getting to Meereen until the very end of the season! Thank god for that, you know, because we were actually on the verge of doing something with this god forsaken storyline!"
  
• Where the fuck is Varys?
  
• This was one of the better paced episodes in a long time -- and it didn't have any Dorne or King's Landing in it. That doesn't really bode well for inevitably having to loop everything back together.

[xRECKONERx]

yes, because having plots remain totally separate and never paying off character moments is better writing than doing those things

[xRECKONERx]

It's not that it's alien. It's that the point of separating them and mixing pairings is to allow character growth, and never paying off those moments by allowing characters to reunite or interact is pretty shitty. To me, the sloppier writing is setting up all these grand stories and chess pieces to move into place, then having the amount of plotlines get too unwieldy and wind up being forced to never pay off certain moments or just keep characters separate forever.

There's a bigger story being told, here -- one that D&D obviously know about and are building towards. Little character moments are fine, and the first 4 seasons being basically nothing but moving pieces around and setting up later payoffs is fine. But eventually, things need to pay off... and we're heading that way, now. If these moments were never paid off, it'd be bad writing, because that'd just mean there was no plan or rhyme or reason to the characters and instead it's just writing whatever the hell comes to mind with no carefully crafted arc in mind.

I sincerely worry that GRRM won't be able to pay off all the stories that need to be capped in the books. The books have SIGNIFICANTLY more minor/major characters involved and the knowledge that a huge swath of them will wind up being irrelevant or just get killed off and have no further purpose makes spending time reading them a drudge. I like the fact that they've condensed a huge portion of the Essos plot into Jorah. I like the fact that they cut the entire Ironborn storyline, because if the Dorne storyline is any indication, the narrative didn't have room to handle it. The show is streamlining the overall narrative because it's a show and it doesn't have real estate to waste on shit that won't matter, whereas the books

can

. The books can spend hundreds of pages on scenery and table setting and getting to know useless characters, because it can be whatever it wants to be. The show can only be 10 episodes, and as it accelerates towards its finale, it has to start paying off these moments, or viewers won't be satisfied.

I think, in general, most book readers I see are nitpicking and bitching about things in the show that

really

aren't worth it. The show was always going to diverge from the books -- and it is better for it.

[xRECKONERx]

Didn't GRRM already say TWOW won't come out this year? So, I guess you can hope he gets it out in the first 3 months of 2016.

[xRECKONERx]

Nope, looks like Gryff+JonCon+Quentyn+Victarion+literally anybody else that should be in Essos are just getting wrapped into Jorah's arc

[xRECKONERx]

i fucking hate every scene with missandei & greyworm

[xRECKONERx]

The show is not "A Song of Ice and Fire by George R R Martin", the show is "Game of Thrones by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss, based off of A Song of Ice and Fire by George R R Martin". At this point, I've accepted that they're different canons and not the same story anymore.

I've accepted that by now as well, but at this point I am worried objectively I think. I don't like the changes made as a book reader, and as a normal show watcher, the story has gotten boring by this point. A lot of the glamour that was the Starks, Joffrey, Tywin, and company are gone, and we're left with a broken dornish plot, a clumped bunch of characters at Winterfell, and Jaime. I will keep watching because I still love the show and story, but I think it's going a bit downhill.

I remember having this reaction after The Red Wedding. "Ughhh, nobody is left to root for, I don't care about any of the remaining characters!"

To an extent, that's still true. I was thinking in the shower today, "Would I freak the hell out about most of the remaining characters dying?" and the answer was objectively "no". I sort of glazed over Selmy's thing last week. I don't think the show has the balls to pull off anything as big as the Red Wedding. Who is left to care about? I mean, I care about Tyrion's journey... and Sansa. That's about it. I guess Arya becoming a badass little assassin is cool, but unfortunately it runs into the issue of being completely unrelated to anything else happening in the show.

That's always been my problem with Essos stuff, actually. I get how, in theory, it could be related. But every time the books went to Essos I had to struggle through it, because I just don't CARE about the intercity politics of the free cities, or Dany's anti-slavery mission, or Arya leaving Westeros, or any of that. Tyrion being transplanted to Essos makes it more tolerable, simply because he was such a key figure in Westerosi politics... but overall, most of the Essos stuff feels like a separate book/series of books. It's also why I was never particularly invested in the Ironborn or Dornish plotlines, because they're sort of straddling the line between relevant and not relevant.

[xRECKONERx]

There's also the point that so much of AFFC/ADWD is internal dialogue/growth that it'd be very hard to show in television... so instead, D&D are doing the same sort of thing but just moving pieces into place quicker for the endgame.

[xRECKONERx]

orrrr just move here and use my HBO

[xRECKONERx]

Destabilizing the realm gives him a chance to climb to power; especially when he's the guy with all the solutions.

Due to the realm destabilizing and his help with the Lannister family, he was given lordship of Harrenhaal -- that gives him a foothold in the Riverlands. He was able to arrange a bethrothal to Lysa Arryn, giving him the Eyrie. He arranged for Joffrey's death so he could smuggle Sansa out of King's Landing and marry her off to the Boltons -- giving him an alliance with the Wardens of the North. Sansa is a trump card for him. No matter who controls Winterfell, there must always be a Stark in Winterfell, and Sansa will guarantee him power.

Through his destabilization, he has managed to gain control over half of the continent. He also has an alliance with the Tyrells, as they helped poison Joffrey, giving him potential power in the South. He still has an uneasy alliance with the Lannisters, giving him an alliance in the West. As of right now he has no control over Dorne. I would imagine his reemergence in King's Landing is related to the Lannisters v Tyrell struggle going on. I'm actually quite curious to see how he plans to gain a foothold in the South/West and start taking over the rest of the continent... I would imagine Lannisters/Tyrells going at each other isn't by accident.

[xRECKONERx]

Ned never liked him, and as long as Ned was in the picture, he would never be able to get close to Catelyn. His betrayal of Ned was an attempt to endear himself to the Lannisters while also having an opportunity to swoop in on Catelyn... but nobody planned for Joff to execute Ned. That was the wildcard, the variable nobody planned for, and it lead to a war, which lead to RW, which lead to the love of his life dying.

LF is making plays then reacting. He didn't have everything planned out. But his original reason for the Stark betrayal probably just comes down to Cat.

[xRECKONERx]

S5 Jon has been great though

[xRECKONERx]

It looks like Sam's plotline

about going to the Citadel

is probably cut.

I doubt it?

They've been hinting at it pretty damn hard.

[xRECKONERx]

fuck everything about that

[xRECKONERx]

no their decision to have ramsay rape sansa is fucking BULLSHIT

[xRECKONERx]

no their decision to have ramsay rape sansa is fucking BULLSHIT

Not really. It's well within his character, and somehow less messed-up than what happened in the books.

I expect our Sansa payoff is going to be in the next 1-2 episodes. She's clearly going to be doing something.

who the fuck cares if it's within his character?

like really? is that our justification for showing rape on screen now?

That scene did NOTHING. We knew Ramsay was a psychopath. We knew Sansa was in a bad spot and scared for her life. We knew Reek regrets what he did and is remorseful. We knew all that.

That scene did fucking NOTHING. Nothing. It didn't advance anything. It was just gratuitous rape for the sake of it.

[xRECKONERx]

and then factor in that Sansa has basically been abuse doll to Joffrey -> pawn/toy for Littlefinger -> abuse doll to Ramsay

it's fucking revolting how poorly they're handling her arc

[xRECKONERx]

idk i feel like khal/dany was less bad because each time displayed the changing power dynamic between the two of them (culminating in the really powerful scene where drogo let go and dany took over during sex)

i still dont feel that, after it has been smacked into our heads a thousand times RAMSAY IS HORRIBLE and SANSA IS BEING USED BY PEOPLE, having her get raped was necessary to any sort of story. we already WANT to see Sansa escape. it does literally nothing

[xRECKONERx]

Theon needs character development if he's going to do anything novel.

If he had intervened in that scene, for example, it would have broken my suspension of disbelief.

Yes, having Theon be reawoken by seeing a Stark, and feeling remorse for what he did... that wouldn't be enough. Clearly, watching his childhood friend get raped is the only way to advance HIS story! Let's make sure Sansa's agency and her RAPE at the hands of Ramsay serve Theon's story!

[xRECKONERx]

Theon needs character development if he's going to do anything novel.

If he had intervened in that scene, for example, it would have broken my suspension of disbelief.

Yes, having Theon be reawoken by seeing a Stark, and feeling remorse for what he did... that wouldn't be enough.

Clearly, watching his childhood friend get raped is the only way to advance HIS story! Let's make sure Sansa's agency and her RAPE at the hands of Ramsay serve Theon's story!

But in the books

Theon's story WAS advanced because of pretty much this same scenario, except it was Jeyne Poole instead of Sansa.

So Theon's story at this point is still going pretty much by the book.

And I'll say this, which I'm sure I've said before: setting the bar for the show as "less misogynistic and shitty to women as GRRM's source material" is not exactly a super high bar to clear. The show has deviated plenty of times, there's absolutely no reason they had to leave the rape in the show, especially when that entire storyline has changed. They threw out EVERYTHING else and rewrote the Winterfell arc, but no, let's keep the rape, because... we need to develop a weaker male character!

[xRECKONERx]

http://www.themarysue.com/we-will-no-lo ... f-thrones/

[xRECKONERx]

I'm unconvinced it's going to serve just Theon's character development. I think it'll serve Sansa's as well as Theon's. I expect to see Sansa take control now that she realizes the extent of her situation. Super lazy writing to use rape for that. Incredibly lazy, especially after the scene with Myranda, which I thought was great.

Ya, I agree. Kind of bullshit to speculate that the scene was purely for the benefit of developing Theon's character. Maybe this all could have been done better, but I thought the tension was also in part a test of Sansa's new found resolve.

The entirety of the rape was just Sophie Turner's voice played over THEON'S REACTION

[xRECKONERx]

http://www.themarysue.com/we-will-no-lo ... f-thrones/

Disagree with this decision, but respect it. There's a difference between promotion and criticism/coverage. This made me think they have more to say and are just going to ignore it, which I think is a disservice, since this could lead to good discussion. Covering something, discussing it, paying attention to it is not the same as promoting them or rewarding them.

At some point, when your morals don't line up with it, I get the decision. Continuing to discuss it is shoveling more attention and stuff in the way of the show. And I also get a sense of throwing your hands up and saying "okay fuck it" because all the hubub last year over the Jaime/Cersei rape did absolutely nothing.

[xRECKONERx]

"Three of the show’s main female characters have now been raped, and yet the show has struggled to make this a part of their character history—their rapes may function as narrative climaxes, but the rising action has never been particularly well-drawn, and the denouement has been non-existent."

[xRECKONERx]

Man, you know how they could've completely fixed that rape scene?

Have the Myranda/Sansa bathing scene happen immediately afterwards, instead of before.

That way, we see the horrific thing, we see her go through it... then we see this scene with Myranda, where she tries to torment her, and in the face of what has happened, we see Sansa stand strong and say "nothing can hurt me". BOOM. Get fucked owned.

Instead, we just remove all the badass agency she had in the bathing scene with a rape.

I'm just going to pretend it was edited the wrong way now.

[xRECKONERx]

the fact it DIDN'T happen that way basically confirms they just wanted to end on the rape for shock value which is revolting

[xRECKONERx]

also can we please just nuke the Sand Snakes from the story? Fuck

The only thing they got right about Dorne was Doran. Everything else down there is awful. Obara Sand makes me want to forcibly remove my ears when she speaks.

Doran's fine. Trystane is actually fine too, though I think it was super jarring to have Myrcella get her first line of the season more than halfway through the season. I don't really know anything about her, and I don't care. I just don't care about Dorne at all. I get they were like, 'OH SHIT PEOPLE LOVE OBERYN, MUST GO TO DORNE' but I can't see how any of this is relevant now. Could've just substituted it with only Doran, or hell, even send Varys to Doran. This "Secret Agent Jaime" shit is awful, the Sand Snakes are awful, Dorne is terrible.

[xRECKONERx]

Who the fuck cares if she gets through it

why fucking bother with it

[xRECKONERx]

dorne scene sucked balls

[xRECKONERx]

the scooby doo style ZOINKS WE RAN INTO EACH OTHER shit was terrible
Sansa storyline is EARNING its convergence, that one was just bullshit

also: Jaime can beat one of them in battle one-handed, but Bronn can't deal with two of these little shits?

especially when the dagger one fights like THIS


come the fuck on

[xRECKONERx]

PUT DOWN YOUR WEAPON

I AM OBARA SAND BLAH BLAH BLAH WHO DO U FITE 4

PUT DOWN UR WEAPON

K

[xRECKONERx]

yeah dat poison :[

although...

Spoiler: upcoming episode spoiler

one of the videos from last year where one of the sand snakes was auditioning was a scene with bronn. and in the scene he's like 'oh im poisoned' and shes like 'ill give u the antidote if u call me pretty' so hes like 'ok ur pretty'

[xRECKONERx]

http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/88807750.html

Spoiler: TRANSCRIPT OF UPCOMING SCENE

Tyene: He has a good voice.
Obara: He's a singer, if he was a fighter we might've been in trouble.
Bronn: It's against my code to hurt women.
Obara: It's amazing how many men we beat seem to have this code.
Bronn: I wouldn't say you beat me.
Tyene: And how is your arm?
Bronn: Wonderful. Wouldn't feel right to leave Dorne without a new scar.
Obara: You think you're leaving Dorne?
Bronn: No great hurry. Dornish women are the most beautiful in the world.
Tyene: Thank you.
Bronn: I said Dornish women, I didn't say you.
Tyene: I'm not the most beautiful woman you have ever seen?
Bronn: I've seen quite a few women in all the Seven Kingdoms.
Tyene: Tell me one woman more beautiful than I am.
Bronn: Well, now in King's Landing there was an absolute...
Tyene: There was a what? In King's Landing you were saying...
Bronn: Was I?
Tyene: ...there is a woman more beautiful than I am.
Bronn: Was there? My memory's not what it was earlier.
Tyene: And how is your arm now.
Bronn: You seem concerned with it. You must really like me.
Tyene: And how is your head?
Bronn: My head? You don't even want to know what's going on in there.
Tyene: What was that, are you sure you're feeling alright?
Bronn: Sure, a bit woozy but that's to be expected after a good dust-up.
Tyene: Your nose is bleeding.
Bronn: It's not it's the dry air.
Tyene: My dagger was coated with a special ointment from Asshai. It's called the Long Farewell. It can take some time to work some times several days. But if one single drop makes contact with the skin...death.
Tyene: The only antidote. Who is the most beautiful woman in the world? Who? Who, sorry?
Bronn: You.
She takes whatever the antidote it is from or off of her necklace and gives it to him.
Tyene: Don't drop it. I think you're very handsome as well.
She blows him a kiss and laughs.

[xRECKONERx]

*screaming internally*

Coldplay is set to perform a special musical written by the band featuring Game of Thrones castmembers Kit Harington, Peter Dinklage, Iwan Rheon, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau, Emilia Clarke, Thomas Brodie-Sangster, Mark Addy, John Bradley, Rose Leslie, Alfie Allen, Charlotte Hope and Dame Diana Rigg.

[xRECKONERx]

legitimately fuck this show

[xRECKONERx]

Yes

[xRECKONERx]

The rate of rape and knowing people who have been raped is much higher. There's also the fact that rape is still a difficult issue for our dumbass society to grasp. We all understand how awful and terrible those other things like torture and murder are. If someone is murdered, they can't really have a reaction to a brutal murder scene on television. If someone has been raped, they can and will react very poorly to seeing something like that on television. It's also an issue of the fact that rape CAN be used as an effective narrative moment and can help characters, but Game of Thrones has yet to prove they can handle it well.

The way they've used rape so far just shows they have no grasp on what it actually is.

(Case in point -- they made Sansa's rape all about Theon; they had Gilly suddenly get SO WET AND HORNY that Sam saved her from rape, when in reality, no woman is going to be like "Almost raped? LET'S FUCK")

[xRECKONERx]

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-th ... -the-list/

AGH HOLY SHIT THOSE CASTINGS

[xRECKONERx]

it's absolutely the latter

[xRECKONERx]

THEON AT THE KINGSMOOT PLZ

i mean if they delayed it this long i dont see why they couldn't have him there

[xRECKONERx]

...are you high

[xRECKONERx]

wait you're trolling

[xRECKONERx]

The cinematography, set design, sound/audio design, costuming, writing, pacing, choreography...everything just fucking NAILED IT that episode.

10/10. The best episode in the show's history. Literally every scene knocked it out of the park.

- Lena Headey is a goddess and watching her so distraught and crazy was amazing. Plus, Qyburn is still creepy, and watching Cersei break as she realized what she's done to her son was just beautiful.

- Arya/Faceless Men is finally going somewhere and that's just badass.

- TYRION AND DANY WAS EVERYTHING I WANTED AND MORE.

- Hardhome, man. Hardhome. Best battle of the series. I can't think of a better "zombie" esque scene, even in cinema. Just incredibly well done. Lore-wise, it's amazing to see what is going on w/ the army/command. Valyrian Steel! Wight children! NK raising the dead! Horsement! Jesus fuck I'm still freaking out

[xRECKONERx]

I couldn't disagree more about the battle scene. I thought it was shot poorly, had bad effects, and worst of all, was incredibly grey and dull. The snowstorm effect was clearly used as a means of covering for the lack of budget, instead counting on everything being wispy and white washed.

The snowstorm effect was used because...that's the weather up far north. That's the weather the undead army brings along with it. See: Sam running into the army in the earlier season.

There were so many extras. Every scene felt full. There was always shit happening in the background.

The effects here were lightyears better than the effects during the Children of the Forest scene at the end of Season 4. Like, I mean, other than putting every actor in zombie makeup and having absolutely no skeletons or anything, I don't know how else they could've done it better. I mean...


That looks as believable as I can believe the Night's King to look. I thought the effects were just fantastic. I can't tell there's any CGI or effects in that scene.

This scene alone is the exact reason why the earlier scenes were so disappointing (specifically battles in Dorne/Mereen), because they were dumping so much budget into this.

[xRECKONERx]

I'll agree that some of the shot transitions were quick and jarring and made it slightly hard to keep up, but those moments were vastly outweighed by the rest of the battle.

[xRECKONERx]

I was not a huge fan of the Battle at the Wall, either. Blackwater was good but I still think I was more into Hardhome.

Hell... Hardhome made me care more about Random Wildling Mom in 15-20 minutes than the Sand Snakes storyline has done the entire season.

[xRECKONERx]

I'm surprised that no one has complained about the wildling mom being weak to children re: recent discussions about portrayals of women in ADWD.

We actually commented on that last night when it was over, but I'm more willing to forgive that, especially given that she was actually a mother and her love for her child was established earlier in the episode.

[xRECKONERx]

i loved dany's break the wheel bit, you guys are just h8rs

[xRECKONERx]

fuck this goddamn show

fuck stannis

eat a fucking sword you fucking psychopath

[xRECKONERx]

I thought this was a really good episode. ^^

I've never seen such a blatant character assassination. They did the Shireen thing purely for shock value. They literally spent the whole season building up Stannis as a good guy/character, only to assassinate it... I'm assuming they did this so people wouldn't feel as bad when Brienne McDoNoWrong chops off his head?

I don't know. They just ruined the Battle of Winterfell for me. I want neither side to win.

Go Night's King!

[xRECKONERx]

It's not. It's purely speculation based on the fact they've hammed up Brienne's oaths to both Cat & Renly all season, plus the fact that there's a war happening at Winterfell, where Brienne will CONVENIENTLY be located between her oath to Cat (Sansa's rescue) and her oath to Renly (killing Stannis).

[xRECKONERx]

Ramsay, trudging shirtless, with abs glistening from the snow, took a band of 20 goofballs and set fire to stockpiles in the Mannis camp! That dastardly

Joker

Ramsay got away with it again! NEXT TIME, BOLTON, NEXT TIME!

Are we supposed to believe that Stannis, the tactician, left his very small stockpile of food and supplies on the very edge of camp with light security?

How did 20 Bolton men get past an army that size and coordinate to set simultaneous fires with nobody noticing?

It's fucking comical at this point how far off the mark the writers have been. D&D claiming that GRRM told them to do it just illustrates further how much they don't get it. In the books, there's almost NO WAY Stannis is going to be involved in Shireen's burning... but in the show, they thought it would be LIKE TOTALLY SHOCKING and they managed to completely assassinate Stannis' character beyond redemption.

Stannis could've turned and fled back to the Wall. Davos literally fucking says that in the episode, and Stannis is like, "Nah we can't because reasons" and then sends Davos back to the Wall to ask for men. So... rather than go back to the Wall, regroup, wait out the Winter, or get more troops, or to accumulate more supplies, Stannis decides to fucking BURN HIS DAUGHTER. It was completely out of character for him. And fuck off with the "Oh, he killed Renly" thing, because as much as we all loved Renly, he was a usurper to Stannis' rightful claim on the throne. He gave Renly the chance to bend the knee and get rid of his claim, and Renly didn't do it. The showrunners have no idea how to write Stannis and have butchered his character beyond all repair for DAT EPISODE 9 SHOCK VALUE. Oh no, sellswords and mercenaries will starve! You know, unless we go back to the Wall, and also, who the fuck would really care about a bunch of non-bannermen dying/starving when your daughter is the trade you have to make?

I literally would rather see Roose fucking Bolton win the battle over Stannis. Roose is a sociopath, with a psychopath for a son... sure. But he at least cares about his son. "Don't make me rue the day I raped your mother" is the Bolton equivalent of "I love you, son". Stannis, in the show, is just a fucking greedy, power-hungry psychopath who murdered his own daughter so he wouldn't have to swallow his pride and wait for a few months or years.

If I was writing this show, I'd have the Battle of Ice go down, Stannis wins and strikes down Ramsay and Roose, Brienne shows up and fucking guts him like a pig, Davos (as the King's Hand) takes over Winterfell and cuts off Melisandre's goddamn head. It won't happen, though, because the writer's have no idea what good storytelling looks like anymore, and instead are trying to ride the high of "OMG WTF" shock value that made the world lose its collective minds with Red Wedding & Ned's beheading & Renly's stabbing & Only Cat & Purple Wedding. They think the shock value is what's important, and have completely failed to realize that all of those moments were EARNED by the story. Stannis burning Shireen was 100% not earned by the story in any way and was purely a contrived bit of shocking television to get the Twitters-a-flappin'.

[xRECKONERx]

(Oh, can we please also not forget the CHILD RAPE? Because I'd very much like to not forget the CHILD RAPE.)

[xRECKONERx]

Ramsey's raid changed the cost of not acting.

This is something else I don't get. The boltons are played up as knowing the north and winter. But shouldn't Winter be relatively new to Ramsey? He doesn't seem particularly old and I never got the impression that the young starks had been through one. So what maybe he went through one as a child?

I also don't get the impression that the Boltons should have any business knowing the ins & outs of the North more than anybody else. "These are our lands!" says Ramsay, merely days after finally switching from breastmilk to formula.

[xRECKONERx]

Here's a scenario: there's no contrived snowstorm, Ramsay Bolton doesn't get past a huge army with 20 men to burn the conveniently stockpiled supplies, and Stannis continues to Winterfell as normal? How about that? No, because when Brienne shows up to fulfill her oath to Renly, the writers don't want the audience to have the slightest bit of confusion about who to back. Seeing two characters we like clash over things isn't good. We need it to be black and white! We need it to be "child murdering fanatic" versus "the most honest, lovable character on the show" instead of "harsh but fair ruler" versus "conflicted knight with two loyalties to choose between".

[xRECKONERx]

I really hate the choice to throw in a completely random flashback solely E1 for Cersei then not do anything with it.

[xRECKONERx]

#shittytumblrgifs

[xRECKONERx]

oh btw did we literally spend a whole season with Dorne bullshit just so they can go "okay bye now" and send Jaime/Bronn back to King's Landing w/ Myrcella/Trystane? This whole fucking adventure was a joke. OH YOU MEAN REPLACING OBERYN'S SPOT ON THE SMALL COUNCIL WASN'T ONE OF THE FIRST FUCKING PRIORITIES AFTER HE DIED?

[xRECKONERx]

I wanted to scream during the Sand Snakes Playing Slaps scene. It was fucking ridiculous.

ALL OF DORNE WAS JUST COMEDY. AM I SUPPOSED TO TAKE THE MARTELLS SERIOUSLY AT ALL?

[xRECKONERx]

Jorah touched Dany touched Missandei touched whoever

everyone's fucked

[xRECKONERx]

Actual spoilers in the tag

Spoiler:

Sooooo, is Catelyn coming back next episode?

Okay so that's actually really interesting because

Spoiler: speculation / ASOS spoilers

LSH not coming back is really obnoxoius but I'm getting my tinfoil hat ready and saying SANSA IS GOING TO BE LSH INSTEAD... okay it's a long shot, but I'm pretty sure LSH is not completely out of the question, even still

[xRECKONERx]

I PUT ON MY TINFOIL ROBE AND HAT

[xRECKONERx]

They should all go to dorne and play slaps tbh

i hope this is the endgame

[xRECKONERx]

Omg who the fuck cares

It's GoT

People need to stop having fits about shit they see in in this show.

why do you bother posting

[xRECKONERx]

dont call me honey

you're posting in a fucking thread ABOUT GAME OF THRONES and then saying "who the fuck cares" about game of thrones

like fucking think about that

[xRECKONERx]

As I was telling Faraday earlier, I have a few predictions for the rest of S1:

- Eddard Stark is put on trial for treason at some point (I'm imagining this being the big climax at the very end of the season, finale material)
- The current king is murdered (possibly pinned on Eddard)

- Dany has her son but they don't cross the Narrow Sea until next season (6 episodes isn't enough time to make that happen)
- The White Walkers attack The Wall
- One of the Stark boys will die (c'mon, something super tragic has to happen to the Starks again to continue building the Lannisters as the archvillains)
- They're totally building up a huge sword battle between Joffrey and Arya but I'm not convinced it'll happen this season

The one I'm most convinced about is either the king dying or Ned being put on trial. The king's character is this wallowing sad sack of pity and depravity which leaves very little room for growth (what, is he suddenly gonna become Mister Smiles?) so the only thing that makes sense is his death, not to mention the ramifications for the rest of the characters if he dies. And with how Ned's luck has been going, him being put on trial for treason at the end of the season makes a fuckload of sense given the fact that he has too many people conspiring against him.

i laugh because crying hurts

[xRECKONERx]

fuck me man :'(

[xRECKONERx]

it's gonna happen

[xRECKONERx]

so wait, are all the wolves

gone? Or do we still have Jons? Are their deaths symbolic of something?

nope, ghost+nymeria

[xRECKONERx]

Spoiler:

i kind of agree with this comparison

omg i totally made that joke last night right after the episode!!

[xRECKONERx]

Calling my shot - Bran has a vision of an older Kings Landing and attempts to warn King Aerys about the white walkers. Maybe he finds out about the wildfyre underneath KL and tells Aerys he should burn them all.

yeah as soon as the ned moment happened w/ bran at ToJ i thought "fuck me bran's gonna pull some Lost Season 5 bullshit isn't he"

[xRECKONERx]

Spoiler: my thoughts on the episode from my blog, reposted here so yall know im not shamelessly trying to get siteclicks

but if u wanna visit anyway & see pretty pictures...

Let's be clear: "Game of Thrones" has often benefited greatly from working off of George R. R. Martin's source material, "A Song of Ice and Fire". There have been plenty of moments from the books that have created riveting, powerful television (specifically, big brutal twists like "The Rains of Castamere" and "Baelor" come to mind). The world of the books is rich and full of compelling dramatic content, and the show is better for it.

However, in the most recent seasons of the show, we have seen the good and bad of deviating from the books. The bad looks like a full season of Sansa being robbed of agency as she is raped and tortured in Winterfell by Ramsay Bolton (something I wrote about a couple weeks ago). The good, though, looks like last season's "Hardhome", where the show started teasing out its endgame amidst cinematic battles with little reveals along the way. And as we've moved well past book territory in Season 6, we've caught a glimpse of the show's strengths as a standalone (Ramsay Bolton problems not withstanding).

The show has a great advantage of being able to respond to its own criticisms in a way that empowers the narrative and the critical discussion around the show as a cultural icon. Plenty of think pieces were written last season about Sansa's troublesome stay in Winterfell (my favorite was by Sonia Saraiya over at A.V. Club), but most of them maintained a sense of cautious optimism: perhaps later story beats would retroactively explain the controversial decisions. On the one hand, we may never know how much of this week's

de facto

apology from the writers was pre-planned. On the other hand, I think a big advantage the show has over the books is to be able to engage in that dialogue in nearly real time. When Littlefinger shows up to try and continue his manipulative ways with Sansa, she immediately shows resolve. Sansa Stark has had enough - and she forces Littlefinger to uncomfortably describe the real pain in what she experienced. It's uncomfortable not only to him, but to the audience watching at home. And yet, it's also meta-catharsis because we finally get to see that Sansa's woes were not purely for shock value and instead left a mark on her character, one that lead to the disruption of Littlefinger's plots and machinations. It leads to Sansa deceiving her brother, because the emotional scars left on her at the hands of Ramsay aren't worth Davos and Jon's pragmatism. Sure, maybe having the force of the Vale at her back would help -- but Sansa isn't willing to dehumanize herself for that. It may be my cynicism affecting my views again, but I suspect that without the real-time feedback the show affords, Sansa wouldn't have gotten her moment to stand strong. I still think Littlefinger's Vale army will wind up helping them, in the end. But it is a very important distinction between Sansa accepting the Vale's help and Sansa refusing it on moral grounds.

Other parts of the episode are great, if muted by comparison. The Kingsmoot supplies us with a wildly different set of events from the books. Euron Greyjoy is a menacing antagonist here, whereas his presence at the Kingsmoot in the books is grounded with a bit more extravagance from the character. Theon and Yara's quick escape contrasted with Euron's baptism had me second-guessing myself. It would be just like the showrunners to bring in a beloved book character only to have him actually drown, cutting to the quick twist that Yara had actually claimed the seastone chair. Euron's first words after "resurrection" leave no doubt as to his place in this story: he wants to murder Theon and Yara, two characters who have honestly earned their place in the audience's hearts by now. I can't imagine Euron's campaign will be successful, but we shall see.

Arya Stark's training with the Faceless Men proves to be a troubling point for me this season. On the one hand, it has been everyone's dream to see Arya become a badass assassin since she was first given Needle way back in Season 1. On the other hand, Arya's storyline is sort of treading water at this point. We saw her get beaten and bloodied for a couple weeks at the start of this season, and it was punctuated with a great-if-not-cliched training montage last week where she seemingly had ascended to a new level of training. The Faceless Men scenes are becoming slightly too obscured by their own mandated obscurity. The Waif handedly beats Arya in a duel during training and proclaims that she will never become one of them. In the next scene, Jaqen H'ghar is sending out Arya on a mission, thinking she is ready to become No-One. While it may prove to be true to the cult's principles, it makes for incredibly frustrating television to watch Arya take two steps forward and one step backwards. We get to see Arya experience a play that reenacts the first three seasons of the show, but it feels all too redundant. It was only two seasons ago, during Joffrey and Margarey's wedding, that we saw a similar farcical play make light of the events of the show, and I don't feel that the play does anything different here, even in the context of Arya's viewing.

Meanwhile, in Mereen, Tyrion finally gets some catharsis, as minor as it may be. It seems his deal with the Masters has worked, and peace has come to Mereen. Grey Worm and Missandei are still skeptical, but it's nice to see Tyrion finally get a small victory after two seasons of meandering. However, Varys and the Red Priestess share a scene that steals the show, where Varys has his nightmarish castration recounted in explicit detail by the Priestess. Conleth Hill's facial expressions are delightful, and he really sells the simultaneous fear and awe that the show has attributed to the Lord of Light. Even when Varys recounts the way Melisandre fails, this new prophet shuts him down with proof of the Red God's power. It's clear that at this point, the show wants us to know that this religion isn't some hokey religion like the Faith of the Seven. The Lord of Light has power, and it's enough to make even Varys the Skeptic shake in his boots. Oh, also, Daenerys Targaryen commands Jorah to find a cure -- boring. The sooner we get back to Dany conquering stuff, the better. Her detour this season has not felt well earned, other than getting gimpses of how far Dany is willing to go for what she feels is right (and undoubtedly purposefully paralleling her father, The Mad King).

And all of that brings us to Bran, whose story finally reaches a head in this episode. After weeks of being proverbially cockblocked by the Three-Eyed Raven, Bran decides to take matters into his own hand and experience a vision for himself. Unfortunately, he runs head first into the Night's King, who has some kind of similar power and manages to grab a hold of Bran. When Bran awakens, he is marked by ice, and that spells bad news for everyone resting at the Tree. Rather than put us off another week, "Game of Thrones" dives directly into the assault on the Heart Tree. This sequence is classic "Game of Thrones" storytelling as we jump directly from Meera and Hodor's heartwarming conversation discussing breakfast into a truly life or death matter. It is admittedly frustrating that, even in his final moments, the Three-Eyed Raven refuses to give up any information that may prove crucial to our (and Bran's) understanding of the show's greater story. But through Bran, the show is able to produce one of the most heart-wrenching moments since Season 3's "The Rains of Castamere".

"Hold the door" has been a long-speculated, mostly-tin-foil fan theory regarding Hodor's true name and backstory. This week, the show jumped directly into that story, and we see Hodor's death at the hands of the White Walkers. Bran's "time travel" powers are not fully explained. But it is ever appropriate that Jack Bender (famous for his direction on "Lost") directed this episode. Whatever happened, happened -- and that means that Hodor's lifetime of ridicule and torment and simplicity came at the hands of the person he was sworn to protect. This the moment when "Game of Thrones" truly shows what an advantage the visual medium has over the books. As the show cuts wildly between Bran in his flashback and Hodor in the present, the tragedy of the situation becomes clearer. Willym became Hodor due to Bran's mistakes, and in the end, his destiny is to be consumed by the undead horde to save the life of the person who enslaved his feeble mind in the first place. It is brutal and sad in a way that "Game of Thrones" has not achieved in a very long time. Hodor was pure of heart, and perhaps one of the last remaining characters to make a claim to that title. But without the visual overlay between young Willym and present Hodor, the scene may have lost its impact.

"Game of Thrones" is clearly heading into its final stretch, and in abandoning the books, it has been allowed to find the right path for the story in a serialized television medium. As the show cuts down on characters and unifies storylines, it is becoming clear that the endgame is nigh. While the books may have the luxury of exploring minor subplots and characters in a gratifying way, the show only has roughly 20 hours of television left to tell this story. The need to streamline the plot is actually paying off dividends for the show, and it's all the better for abandoning the books.

[xRECKONERx]

LSH I could see given the Riverlands discussions.

Coldhands, less so. He seems pretty neat, though. It would at least give Bran someone else to talk to.

well... somebody has to rescue bran and meera. Hodor can't holdthedoor forever, and meera won't outrun a zombie horde dragging bran on a sled...

coldands=benjen tho

[xRECKONERx]

u seem mad

[xRECKONERx]

regarding brandi's post:

i think arya kills the waif, takes her to the faceless men, hey look, you get a face to add to the wall "one way or another", contract is wiped clean

it just wouldnt make sense to have the faceless men hunt arya down for the rest of the series

[xRECKONERx]

episode was the only shit episode in a season of 4-5 star episodes so im willing to give it some slack

[xRECKONERx]

i think we'll see them next week, probably

i assume they're still locked in down there, just chained up

[xRECKONERx]

there are only 13 episodes left after this season

[xRECKONERx]

jack bender said in an interview there are only 13 episodes left in the pipeline and that they were splitting it 7/6

[xRECKONERx]

that episode was actually good i dont get the hate

[xRECKONERx]

Also where the fuck is dorne? I'm hoping we see a surprise reintroduction next episode. Perhaps at the trial.

don't wish this on us

[xRECKONERx]

also i really didn't care about the so called inconsistencies in the episode

i bought that jon was going to be emotional over rickon and i bought that he got baited into it because ramsay is a better manipulator
i bought that sansa knew ramsay and knew jon and went "fuck it i've got this" and chose to keep the vale a secret on purpose
i bought ramsay's trap with sacrificing his own men to form a wall of bodies

i think we'll see the fallout from sansa's deception moving forward but i think it just shows she's a great game player at this point

[xRECKONERx]

I'm okay with them just showing up in the background as part of a pro-Dany army at some point. That's it.

[xRECKONERx]

i need to watch it again now

[xRECKONERx]

Game of Thrones is not arthouse television or highbrow entertainment, and that's totally fine. But for what it is, you really can't beat this season, IMO.

Season 3 was Not A Good Season. Going back and looking over it, that season kinda sucked. We had the Red Wedding and that's what people remember it for but other than that, it was kinda messy. We had Brienne/Jaime but we also had the ridiculousness of The Bear & Maiden Fair. It may have ended with the Red Wedding, but we had a full season of cheesy romance and Robb being a dumbass terrible leader. It was the season with "Sam and Gilly walk" as a surprising number of scenes. And it was the season with the endless torture of Theon Greyjoy for nearly an entire season. It had a few high moments (namely the Brienne/Jaime bath scene & the Red Wedding). And it had probably the worst finale.

Season 1 was pretty good. But it was also a very weirdly paced season, with an uncomfortable amount of backloading of the plot action.

Season 2 is probably the show's strongest season, I'd say. We get tons of plot momentum and build up. Blackwater was a triumph and set the stage for future episode 9 battles. We get the Ghost of Harrenhall. We get Arya as Tywin's Cupbearer. We get Tyrion as Hand. We get Ygritte and Jon. Season 2 is also prime Varys territory. Really this was everything I love about Game of Thrones.


If I was going to rank the seasons, it would probably be: 2 > 6 >> 1 > 4 > 3 >>>>>>>> 5
6 may rise above 2 on a rewatch of the series. Unsure how much of my fondess of S2 is from nostalgia.

[xRECKONERx]

They really need to chill with the teleportation next season tho, it feels cheap

Music was A++++

I actually predicted Arya would show up and Faceless Man Walder Frey in the finale because it was so out of nowhere that it seems like something GoT would do PLUS it seemed very obvious they wanted everyone the fuck out of Essos this season

speaking of which: JORAH WHERE?

[xRECKONERx]

I remain kind of clueless on how the endgame is going to be good television.

It seems like we have 2 major conflicts remaining (Cersei + the South and Littlefinger + the North), and then a fight against the boring zombies, with side-plots for Sam and Sandor to maybe resolve. I guess Bran can learn stuff to make the zombies more interesting.

This is kind of my fear, as well. I don't want the zombie battle to be the "big thing" the series has been building towards. It's so predictable and boring. I was hoping zombies would invade FIRST, realm temporarily forges a truce to fight them off, then the final season would be the actual pay off to all the politicking over the past 7 seasons where the big players make their final moves on a destitute realm.

Was listening to the soundtrack over and over again today. Just masterful work.

This ended up being a weird and bumpy season but this episode was definitely a real high point for the series, particularly the King's Landing stuff. I've ragged on the show's adaptation of the Jaime/Cersei relationship for a couple of years (they're probably my favourite two book characters) but there's something to be said for having the weakening point be now, when she goes full Mad Queen, than earlier, that makes me open to reconsidering it somewhat. Lena Headey and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau totally knocked all of their scenes out of the park, as well.

speaking of which: JORAH WHERE?

Saw somebody suggest that

Melisandre might find him and Victarion him up a smoking arm but that does seem like wishful thinking. I think I prefer his story as just ending ambiguously now, even though greyscale seems like it's kind of a thing in the books

I was sorta "bleh" on Jaime/Cersei being together still until this episode. I think it makes all the sense in the world to have Jaime's love for Cersei fade when he sees her as the Mad Queen. The books had the strands of that relationship dethread slowly over time mostly via POV chapters. Since they couldn't do that in the show, I think this was an excellent move.

Regarding the spoiler:

I have a hard time believing Grayscale is completely irrelevant to the plot. Jorah has to come back into play somehow. Though I imagine now, it'll be him popping up in Westeros to be like "ay khaleesi check out my arm i cured it" but I still dunno what Grayscale has to do with anything.

[xRECKONERx]

for overwatch fans

[xRECKONERx]

i had the exact opposite feeling. dance was like 'Yeahhh!! all the chars i care about' and feast was a slog full of boring characters

[xRECKONERx]

NEW GOT TRAILER HAS ME FUCKIN MOIST

[xRECKONERx]

What a premiere episode.

[xRECKONERx]

Things I Hate: The People Who Still Think GoT's Writing Is Good "movement"

My relationship with the show's writing at this point in a nutshell:

eh, I really don't think the writing is that bad.

It's overwrought in some places, for sure. It's cheesy. But I think there are plenty of bright spots in the writing, too. The characterization, in particular, is fantastic and gives these actors some great shit to work with. Alfie Allen needs a fucking Emmy.

[xRECKONERx]

gotta make Cersei seem threatening somehow

the show is down to basics now. no more tertiary parties. baratheon, tyrell, martell, bolton, frey, tully, technically greyjoy. all wiped out completely.

we're back to the original premise: stark, targaryen, and lannister.

This marks the beginning of Cersei's downfall.

I loved AND hated this episode.
Why is Tyrion such a shit Hand? "Hey, we've got the most badass army in the history of the planet...let's split them up for no real benefit."
Why is the sudden shift in Bran's characterization okay? I can buy it somewhat because he's pulling a Dr. Manhattan, but I mean, the last time we saw him he was fine. This sudden change is jarring.
What is the fucking point of greyscale? Just to give Sam a plot point? They spent so much time on this. If it really boils down to "Oh you just peel the greyscale off, no problem, all of this was so Sam could have a reason to pour through some old tomes" I will be highly disappointed.
I don't know what they're planning with the bit of info about Winterfell's ravens logs being kept, but I'm worried they're planning to reintroduce the letter about the Lannisters killing Jon Arryn, and Cat burned that in the fire.
Casterly Rock was supremely disappointing.

However...
God, somehow, Kit Harrington/Emilia Clarke really nailed the contrast between their two characters despite being among the worst actors on the show.
Sansa is a good ruler.
The callbacks to early in the show (Robb, Joffrey, etc) were all well-timed and thoughtful.
Cersei's punishment of Ellaria was perfect.
Show Euron is really amazing. Great character, lots of charisma, fun to see him taunt Jaime.
The re-emergency of the Iron Bank is good and a pleasant surprise when I expected the show to ignore it.
Finally, Olenna's death is maybe the greatest FUCK YOU sendoff in the history of television. She plays it so well. And for the first time ever, IMO, she actually

wins

the scene where she dies. Every other death has been a moral lesson about why you shouldn't do what that person did. This, though, was a gratifying end to a character who has dominated every scene she's been in. She may be dead, but she won the fuck out of that final scene and has set things in motion for Jaime to realize Cersei is the problem.

Overall, a B+ episode. Some of the Guy Ritchie style quips got annoying and felt out of place, but it finally feels like we're ramping up to the endgame.

[xRECKONERx]

This marks the beginning of Cersei's downfall.

Team Cersei: **systematically eliminates all enemies of the Crown, with a distinct plan for how to stop the last one**

Reck: "How will Cersei recover? It's all over!"

look im team cersei too but

they had to raise the stakes before cersei dies
she'll be gone before the end of the season. avatar bet.

[xRECKONERx]

Tyrion acting explicitly dumb is very bad

[xRECKONERx]

why does everyone suddenly give a damn about Ed Sheeran?

Personally I view it misdirected subconscious anger.

People know, deep down, that something is off about the show and has been for a while, but either don't want to admit it or don't know exactly what it is. So they take hold of a minor issue and pour their displeasure into it.

this is a very dumb theory

[xRECKONERx]

Oh wow, there was a pretty blatant hole in the writing last episode that I didn't notice at the time but just found out about.

When Arya arrives at the gates of Winterfell, she is told "Lady Stark" currently rules the castle, and asks "Which one?" Yet there are only three possibilities for the identity of "Lady Stark" - Sansa, Catelyn, and Arya herself. Arya was at the Red Wedding and thus knows her mother is dead.

So why is Arya confused as to who is the "Lady Stark" the guards are referring to?

good god you will stop at nothing to stretch any little thing into bad writing to prove your point

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah I'm rather over the teleporting complaints

Would y'all prefer 6 episodes of Dothraki riding aimlessly around instead of just getting to the actual interesting stuff?

[xRECKONERx]

This marks the beginning of Cersei's downfall.

Team Cersei: **systematically eliminates all enemies of the Crown, with a distinct plan for how to stop the last one**

Reck: "How will Cersei recover? It's all over!"

#tbt

[xRECKONERx]

this episode was so hype but also some really dumb writing and suspension of disbelief

[xRECKONERx]

the pacing issues were very obvious the last episode and even the director admitted it was a problem

the issue is that GoT set its own pacing early by spending an entire season watching Brienne & Jaime travel to KL on the road
and now we get that timespan jumped in the span of a few minutes

if the Brienne & Jaime pairing happened now, one episode would have Catlyn telling Brienne to take Jaime and the next episode they'd be at King's Landing

or Arya/Hound

or LF/Sansa

i mean really any of the pairings we've started caring about were due to spending enough time just watching them talk and walk

now that we're in the endgame there isn't time for that and im not sure there is a good way to fix it

[xRECKONERx]

Is there a particular reason why this season is 7 episodes instead of the standard 10? Directors admitted to being able to cut corners due to popularity of show but honestly what gave the show such depth was the development of characters like Brienne/Jaime using an example from this page. It's like they felt they could get away with pleasing the audience with just cramming in as much action as they can (hooray teleporting fleets/chars and videogame accuracy in locating enemy generals).

budget

these seasons retain the same budget as previous seasons but with less episodes that lets them to expensive cgi stuff

[xRECKONERx]

Up to this point, the audience hasn't been led to believe that Dany is turning into her father, but suddenly this season this parallel is played up.

no

[xRECKONERx]

okay so ....

definitely thought jaime was donezo. in fact, why wasn't he? cersei told the mountain to do it, why didn't he?
what exactly was the point in littlefinger? I mean like, I get he was undone by his own protege which is NEAT and all but for the entirety of the story to be caused by his manipulations and for him to just go out like that seemed like a weak ending for a power player.
the whole meeting was a bit of a letdown, mostly due to the fact the plan to capture a wight made little sense anyway. and then we get the meeting and literally nothing happens. cersei still confirmed the best player of the game but like, it felt like going around your elbow to get to your asshole. i suppose it gives cersei a slight advantage because now they're unprepared for her surprise attack.
arya/sansa pretending was expected but a couple problems: 1) if you have to have your characters act completely out of character for several episodes just to pull a "gotcha" on the audience, it's bad writing ...and 2) why were they pretending even in scenes where the audience was the only observer? it's really shitty sleight of hand

that being said... predictions for the final season!

Spoiler:

- all 3 dragons are gonna die fighting the WW (redshirt Rheagal probably dies first and hero Drogon kills zombie Viserion)
- grey worm & gendry & unsullied & dothraki die in the WW war.
- jon winds up killing dany to forge Lightbringer and become Azor Ahai which enables him to defeat the NK
- theon goes to rescue Yara from Euron, he and Yara self-sacrifice to blow up Euron's boats and kill the Golden Company
- cersei gets pissed about the golden company and marches lannister army north planning to blindside jon/dany.
- arya kills jaime then uses his face to kill cersei, fulfilling the prophecy.
- lannister army going north brings the mountain north and the hound finally kills the mountain then dies.
- jon aka aegon (sp?) has his truth revealed, isnt a stark, assumes iron throne. tyrion is his hand, varys the maester of whispers. probably missandei is there somewhere.
- sansa reigns in winterfell.
- bronn dies in a moment of true selflessness trying to save someone.
- brienne dies dueling Wight-Tormund.
- sam is archmaester and writes A Song of Ice and Fire.
- bran probably dies doing some weird warging shit.

Spoiler: season 8 body count

dead: all 3 dragons. dany. yara. theon. euron. grey worm. cersei. jaime. bronn. brienne. night's king. grey worm. unsullied. dothraki. hound. mountain. gendry. bran.
living: jon. arya. sansa. tyrion. varys. missandei. sam. uhhh podrick, fine.

Did I miss anyone?

[xRECKONERx]

jon's ass is just perfect

[xRECKONERx]

That sickening feeling when you know jon and D are inevitably going to win and live happily ever after but you root against them anyways because you feel they don't deserve it at all and only got there through plot armour and dragon ex machina. I'm hoping while they're in siberia at least sansa vs cersei happens in some way and is interesting.

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh no

p sure dany dies before the end due to jon

[xRECKONERx]

Yeah same re rooting for Cersei

[xRECKONERx]

Spoiler: sorta maybe S8 spoilers from an actor's instagram

GET. FUCKIN. HYPE.

[xRECKONERx]

bitly wont work

[xRECKONERx]

i fucking loved everything about that

[xRECKONERx]

I'm personally happy they didn't fall into the OOOH THE REAL THREAT WAS THE MAGIC ZOMBIES THE WHOLE TIME trope. I've been dreading that since like Season 2. I got into the series because of all the politicking and throne drama. Magic zombies were boring fantasy cliches. I was so scared that all this buildup and the Red Wedding and everything would be meaningless because zombies make everyone forget all that and work together. I'm pleased that they're going back to the series roots for the last few episodes.

[xRECKONERx]

Maybe it was just a way to power down Dany's army so Cersi would have a better chance.

I hope Cersi wins now. Would be a great twist ending. Is she still pregnant with that baby?

This. I think they needed a conceivable way to have the final battle be somewhat competitive, and Dany's forces getting annihilated by AOTD is the best way to do it.

[xRECKONERx]

we literally saw people from all armies get demolished by the army of the dead INCLUDING northerners so like idk maybe this isn't the hill to die on for cries of racism

[xRECKONERx]

ok

[xRECKONERx]

ok

[xRECKONERx]

show: so yeah the army that is only good at rushing headlong into things and only thrives in the desert and is a bunch of fish outta water as established by the narrative is gonna get shitstomped by the night king
me: yeah that tracks
show: the army of the dead is so terrifying they also overwhelm the unsullied who stand their ground until the bitter end as also established by the narrative
me: yup uh-huh
show: the army of the dead is also gonna wipe out the northern army because they're just that damn overwhelming and the northern army is ragtag and weary and underfed as established by the narrative
me: yep all is logical
show: fuck sis the army of the dead is even so powerful that five main characters

who are all white

are gonna bite the dust too and wipe out the entirety of house mormont

and no speaking actors of color die

me: fuck man that army is scary as shit im glad arya was barely able to end them with one blow and barely save everyone after basically everyone was killed
you: but it's RACIST see the storytelling logic doesn't matter i am going to get up in arms about RACISM instead

[xRECKONERx]

ok

[xRECKONERx]

oof

[xRECKONERx]

ive seen the complaints about the scorpions killing the dragon and frankly i dont care. the night king killed a dragon with one well-placed spear. i like that the dragons arent this impenetrable plot armor vehicle.

however.

i do have a problem with the cersei scene. what in the hell makes anyone think cersei would be above slaughtering them all right there? seriously. she blew up the sept of balor like it was nothing. she's willing to cross lines. hell, the lannisters were responsible for the red wedding. fuck courtesy rules. she brought the mountain back from the dead using dark magic. she doesn't give a fuck about protocol. that's what is compelling about her. cersei has grown from someone who bends the knee and plays the game into someone who has realized there's nobody stopping her from taking shortcuts.

episode wouldve been about 100x better if cersei just offed missandei and then opened fire on them, taking out a few characters in the process. let her wipe out some main characters. hell, let her wipe out tyrion for being so dumb as to underestimate cersei for the umpteenth million time.

[xRECKONERx]

holy fucking shit this show is so bad

[xRECKONERx]

how to kill your entire series in just two episodes

[xRECKONERx]

cleganebowl was the only bright spot in an otherwise shitty episode

the fact these last two episodes have effectively undone 7 years of character development has me unbelievably salty

dany's turn was so fucking wild and out of nowhere.

it's just showing more and more that the writers wanted to rush this to wrap things up to move on to other projects. HBO wanted longer seasons and was willing to pay for it. Think how good a final season would be if we had actual time for things to breathe. spend a couple episodes with Hound/Arya. see Dany's slow descent into madness instead of it happening in the span of like 20 minutes. FUCK

[xRECKONERx]

i was honestly fine with arya killing the NK. i was. it wasn't awful. it made sense for her arc. that was contingent upon Jon actually being fucking relevant to the story and having some ties to the mythical bullshit they spent a million years building up. but in retrospect, it looks like we aren't getting that payoff. fuck azor ahai.

Jamie spent 7 seasons on a journey as a character. Then in E4 they just write it all away going "nah sorry I'm hateful too" and have him bite it holding Cersei in his arms.
fuck the valonqar.

Tyrion got unceremoniously lobotimized for the sake of the plot making a lick of sense. Tyrion, the guy who "drinks and knows things" and has spent the entire series being built up to be this underestimated genius strategist? nope. he just continually blunders his way through things, gets Varys killed, only to immediately realize "derp i was wrong for the 10th time"

Cersei, the best player of the game overall, is reduced to a mean bitch trope who smirks smugly like she has a plan. only..........SHE DOESN'T HAVE A PLAN LOL SUBVERTING UR EXPECTATIONS LMAO. no secret wildfire weapon. all she had was the scorpions -- which, in E4, could snipe a dragon out of the air from miles away with only a handful of scorpions. but here, in E5, conveniently none of them can hit anything despite there being HUNDREDS of them. BUT MUH RED KEEP HAS NEVER FALLEN. ok. are we to believe cersei put *zero* alternative options in place?

the entire lannister family just completely castrated in one episode. fuck this show.

[xRECKONERx]

imagine:

Tyrion is in the crypts. He finally lives up to his words of how he sees himself and recognizes that Sansa was one of the only people who was ever kind to him. He dies in the crypts, sacrificing himself for Sansa, and doesn't live to make nine million more mistakes despite being portrayed as one of the smartest people in the kingdom.

Jon in the Godswood, fulfilling his Azor Ahai prophecy, fighting the White Walkers to get to the NK. Looks like he's gonna get defeated... then Arya saves the day. Jon still technically fulfills the prophecy but we get the sweet surprise with Arya and manage to get her payoff for her character arc. Lead in to her going to King's Landing, not listening to the Hound, being there for Cleganebowl... Mountain kills her, Hound goes into a rage and spears the Mountain off the steps into the fires below.

E4, Dany is flying with the two dragons. Ballistas miss their mark, then finally an errant few bolts strike down a dragon. Dany flies in, evades the shots, and wipes out half of Euron's fleet in the process before banking away to lick her wounds. Instead, we got magic sniper ballista working last episode, then this episode literally they all become Stormtroopers.

Cersei has a plan. Rather than Dany going full batshit, she makes the mistake of going after Cersei in the Red Keep, igniting caches of wildfire beneath the city and sending it into a blaze. Dany sees the destruction and realizes she's fucked up big time. She didn't just "snap" because some fucking bells rang, she just let her desire for revenge get the best of her. Hell, let Cersei have Missandei hostage in the Red Keep and Missandei dies in the process. Dany goes nuts because she's killed one of her most beloved friends. Then she goes full Mad Queen. She didn't just light up the city for no reason.

Jamie leaves Brienne, not because he's "hateful", but because of a callback to "the things I do for love". He arrives, tries to help Cersei escape, they realize they're trapped. Cersei is scared. Doesn't want to die alone. "Jaime, don't let me die alone." Jaime, seeing that there's no escape, mercy kills Cersei to let her die in his arms instead of alone. Leaving Jaime to die alone by being suffocated/buried alive. And no goddamn stupid fucking Euron fight scene.

With just a few minor tweaks even, this season could've been a lot less frustrating.

[xRECKONERx]

Wow.

There are some things that I really love about this season and some things I really hate, with most of it being in the middle. The season is gonna feel rushed - no doubt, but I had that expectation from the get go since there were only going to be 6 episodes and they had an awful lot to wrap up. I was pleasantly surprised at the length of the episodes but was crushingly disappointed at how the Night King turned out to be a red herring. Overall so far, I feel like I am getting what I want from it (closure, that gripping immersion that happens with each episode, the animated discussions that happen post-epi) but it certainly isn't the way I

want

it to go.

I kind of feel like the writers were given plotline bullet points and are trying to draw lines from point A to B leaving it up to the actors/actresses to fill in the gaps. And that is where the strength of this season lies in, the actors/actresses ability to work with what they have been given and had the freedom to kind of run with it.

I

LOVED

how Emilia Clarke has played this season.

LOVED IT.

At first I was pissed and confused after this episode but after thinking about it a bit, it DOES make sense for her to scorch the entirety of King's Landing. Daenerys started off homeless and living in hiding off of the charity of other foreign lords who did so in hopes of a future repayment. She has been through some serious shit and really the only thing that has given her the impetus to conquer Meereen is that after her son died, "the stallion who would rule the world", she thought that she was destined to rule the Iron Throne and that has fueled her ambition and impacted every decision she ever made ever since she realized that it was possible.

By this point, she has lost almost everything. She has lost the adoration and role of "The Breaker of Chains" (no one really within the monarch system already in place, are enslaved like the people of Meereen. The economy, political and social structure was built on a dichotomy between the rich and the poor whereas in Westeros, that role isn't needed. So she isn't receiving the love and adoration that I think she expected after "saving westeros" from the Dreadful Night King, even if she wasn't the one who did the actual killing. She has lost 2 dragons (who were the basis of her power structure, who she thought were invulnerable and she considered her "children"), her number one supporter and her best friend. Now she has lost her lover through no fault of her own. I think the writers nailed it in post-episode when they said that a Targaryen who feels isolated and with so much power, is a dangerous thing. There is nothing "good" right now that is keeping her worst impulses under wraps. I think she thinks it is time for her to do what SHE thinks is best and I think right now, after losing everything, she is seeing a future where no one will love her so her only way to achieve loyalty is through fear.

This is where Clarke really shines. You can see the character development in her facial expressions and they are right in line with what she is doing. All that pain in losing what she has lost, all that rage at feeling completely powerless to stop it, the lack of sleep and food are etched across her face and you see where it breaks open in a moment of, "fuck this shit. I am going to do what I know works even if it does cost me in ways I don't know". Dani was my favorite character this episode even though it was heartbreaking to watch. Think back to the vision she had when she was captive to the Warlocks; I don't think that was snow when she approached the Iron Throne, I think it was ash.

The Arya/Hound back and forth cinematography was freaking breathtaking. I love that The Hound had that moment post-Lannister dogservant where he was free, was moderately accepted and treated as an equal in the previous seasons. It made him reaching out to Arya to get the hell out of there so much sense. He knew she had something else to live for besides revenge whereas he did not. I think he had more respect and love? for her than he had for anyone else in his life.

I was a bit underwhelmed by Clegane Bowl.

It was the best episode at least.

definitely the most intense so far.

all other things aside, Qyburn's death is the best thing in this entire series

thank you writers, for giving us comic relief

He died a hero out of the pure love of trust and admiration.

I think you are romanticizing Qyburn a bit. He came from nothing and had no where else to go. I think saving Cersei came from pure self-interest and I am sure most people hated him as much as Cersei at this point.

Jamie leaves Brienne, not because he's "hateful", but because of a callback to "the things I do for love". He arrives, tries to help Cersei escape, they realize they're trapped. Cersei is scared. Doesn't want to die alone. "Jaime, don't let me die alone." Jaime, seeing that there's no escape, mercy kills Cersei to let her die in his arms instead of alone. Leaving Jaime to die alone by being suffocated/buried alive. And no goddamn stupid fucking Euron fight scene.

I had envisioned Jaime killing Cersei over the tiled floor map of all of Westeros, not out of anger but of love. So sad that din't take place. I don't think I really cared how it happened. I find it funny that everyone knew that Dani was going to conquer Cersei except Cersei. I don't think she really knew what to do with a queenship. There was never really a maintenance strategy in place except to execute anyone who disagreed with her, much less an exit strategy.

Things that I loved:

Ned Stark's continual presence through his children. So much of who they are and who they have become was shaped by Ned Stark. Pretty impressive for a character that died s1.

Arya walking away with murder in her heart.

Those were the highlights for me.

holy shit hi mollie!

also this was a good post

[xRECKONERx]

to me it feels like they had the right bullet points and end points

but without the books they had no CLUE how to fill the spots in between A & B so they just sucked in those moments

i bet the books end up largely the same but with tweaks that make it work for the characters

also top 3 characters in the entire show: 1. davos 2. cersei 3. the hound

[xRECKONERx]

They subverted my expectations

[xRECKONERx]

what