Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[RadiantCowbells]

As it happens, the game went entirely not as we had planned it to go. I was counting on my scumpartners successfully pushing certain lynches through that would give me more towncred, and I planned to delay the Nero Cain lynch to endgame. As the game actually went, my teammates were never actually able to push the mislynches that I wanted, so we ended up just lynching whoever. It hurt my towncred a lot. :[

Civilization Mafia Mafia:

Votecount 2.47:

Game Replacement(4): Robbnva, Ginngie, Tchill13, humaneatingmonkey
Tchill13 (2): massive, Titus
humaneatingmonkey (1): Dark Horse
Korts (1): Gamma Emerald
Robbnva (1): Eddie Cane
Titus (1): Korts
Grendel (0):
massive (0):
Gamma Emerald (0):
Ginngie (0):
nancy (0):
Dark Horse (0):

Not Voting: nancy, Grendel

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

Because of the replacement situation, 48 hours has been added to deadline. 10 posts have been given to every player as a result.
Sorry about the poor moderation in the recent past.
The day has begun and will end in (expired on 2017-08-31 23:00:00).

Spoiler: Remaining Posts:

Korts: 57
Ginngie: 49
humaneatingmonkey: 45
Game Replacement: 62
Gamma Emerald: 16
Robbnva: 19
Grendel: 60
massive: 59
Dark Horse: 56
Titus: 72
nancy: 73
Tchill13: 39

Note that: Gamma Emerald has 16 posts remaining and Robbnva's replacement will have 20 posts remaining.

[Grendel]

Spoiler:

Town!Rob could very well have caught scum with their pants down at the start of the game, but I'm not convinced that is the case here.

What makes you think that it wasn't the case?

I already answered this by explaining why I thought that slot was town. I also explained that Rob would always be scum reading that slot because his first scum read is near permanent, making that read technically only as accurate as any other read formed during RVS.

Does Monkey remind you of my play in newbi 1734? Maybe even a tad?

I'm just gonna address this line of logic from this post. Acknowledge that I've read your build up.

When has it been the proper way to read someone based on someone else's (or yours) meta? If you're grasping straws here, better grasp the right straws because at least you were going somewhere in your previous cases against me. Here, you just look like you're confbiasing hard. If you tell me this isn't at least influenced by confbias, you're either scum digging my grave or delusional town. Or I'm not seeing an angle here that your reply might shine light on.

CATCH-UP EDIT: Okay thanks for retracting but why did you pursue that line of thought in the first place.

Its not proper/improper play to use previous experiences to form reads on other players. As habit I'll compare players I don't know to how I play, or perhaps how this site plays. You kno, meta stuff. Its not an objectively good or bad tactic as I've seen cases where it worked for, and against me.

I explained in the post you acknowledged but didn't quote that I thought your play here resembled mine there. Then I went on to explain why I dropped it. I think its really odd that you'd prep this point by saying that you've gone out of your way to meta me, then accuse me of doing something I do typically.

The first player to receive heavy pressure, (and wagoned to L-2/1), is statistically more likely to be town.

So this is how the wiki-definition of IIOA looks like in-play. Huh. Anyway, I don't agree with it and you using it as an argument is suspect.

That doesn't even qualify as IIOA? What?

If you disagree you're free to datamine completed games, but I'm telling you that the first Wagon in RVS to get lots of pressure is more likely town then scum. I've been using that tell for several games now, and its yet to fail me.

This and the "grasping at strews" are clearly attempts at deriding my credibility as a player.

I also think that Eddies flippant interactions that occuasrred when he subbed in, and were maintained quite a while, are more likely to come from town then not.

What did you think was the optimal scum play going in? Mine's attack the attacker.

Partipate in a way that is going to be perceived as conventionally town like for the site meta. Garner as much town cred as possible D1. Lurk until required to do town looking things again.

I recall that he was present to help prevent a no lynch a the EoD1. Which was town regardless what Assemble would have flipped there.

Based on this, do you agree that people there are more likely to be town that not?

I think that Eddie's and Ginngie's EoD1 play resonated fairly town for it. I wouldn't say the same for you my friend.

Also while Monkey mentioned it on the onset, encouraging a 1v1 between two emotionally charged players is bad mojo for town morale.

I don't know how that could be alignment-indicative? Also, it's not as if it was a deliberate nuclear strike on my part because I didn't know how "emotionally-charged" Percy and Robb can get. Also, I thought it was the best way to get us out of RVS. Like you said, it wasn't apparent that it was the case and it's not like I'm Bran Stark.

Why wouldn't scum want town drama? It distracts town, wastes time, and town ignorance can make adding fuel to the fire come at low risk. Even more so when its that early in the game.

It can be hard to make that call. Especially when you don't know one player or both the players. I seem to recall a lot of discomfort on Perphonies part that looked like a personal frusteration. She was dragged over the course of seven+ pages for a lol cow post and RVS vote. Rob's trying demeanor would get more drawn out over time, though I think his vote sitting habit was quickly established.

Maybe you honestly didn't expect things to keep going. But from my PoV I thought it was apparent that the 1v1 was going nowhere.

Questions one didn't need to be asked. Two, and three, are scummy bad and wouldn't help him get a read on me. Four is non-AI info, the last two pass as legitimate points with questions. Fluff ratio of 3:1.

Maybe my impression that Monkey is overcompensating by big posting wasn't incorrect. I could look at his over questions I guess. I skimmed until I saw he asked me things.

[Grendel]

I do see what you are talking about in your first paragraph. The interactions between the two slots did get vitriolic because of that one v one. In the second paragraph I see what you meant and yeah I didn't see anything that felt middle-of-the-roadish to me. I don't really agree that interacting in the present is a big town indicator. For me it's something I commonly do, and something I decided to not do here as I've noted it becomes detrimental at times, specifically in Real Folk Blues it kept me from reading through at a decent speed.
So, other than monkey, where are your reads at? I mostly want to see who you are considering lynching as we get close to deadline.
I'll do the monkey scumgame analysis soonish.

There is some flux in my null reads, and idk where third scum would be because I've been too strapped for time to do associative diving. Tho given how poorly it had worked in the past it might be for the best that I put that off until a scum flip happens.

nancy, Vedith,

Ginngie, Gamma,

Dark Horse, Korts, Robbnva, Tchill13,

Titus,

massive, Monkey

I almost want to Tchill because of this EoD lurk he has going on while pushing the lynch that hasn't formed a viable counter wagon. I'd advocate lynching him tomorrow if he doesn't make that second kill tonight. Lol @ me if I hard defended gambiating scum D1.

Titus predesser did nothing, and with exception to EoD1 has flown under the radar. I'd prefer to not lynch her outside of last minute compromise. From what I've heard Math say Titus's town game is stronger then her scum game. And I know from first hand experience that Titus is strong as scum!

Massive is hard to explain. I didn't find anything about him town per say. I didn't like how he threatened to scum read me for discrediting Rob's play. Then how he backed off because you told him to. I didn't like that interaction at all even if he is town reading you. It seems like he was too easy to convince there.

[Grendel]

VOTE: Monkey

Can one of Gingie/Tchill move over here?

I really don't want Vedith as our only choice at EoD.

@Game Replacement, nancy & Gamma

Help me lynch Monkey/Massive! I'll support either!

[Gamma Emerald]

I can do Titus. Massive would be a "we need a lynch" vote.
Actually I think that lynching Titus would be more advisable than Korts at this juncture, mainly because the sum of the slots results in Titus coming out worse tbh.
VOTE: Titus

[massive]

Working with my town reads is one of my strongest weapons, so I'm curious why that would be especially scummy. How much resistance should I have shown?

[nancy]

Quickly jumping in here before I head to bed; monkey just want to let you know that I do appreciate you responding to my reachout and I'd like to give you an answer but I don't really know where to begin when "thoughts on my thoughts/reads so far" encompasses a lot of content and without feeling all that good about things myself I don't know what good I'd be doing you; I'd planned on doing a thread reread today but a bunch of things hit me at once and kept me away from the game. Probably doesn't help a lot that your walls are generally really hard to read with the way they're formatted + the lack of post links, generally just super difficult to keep a track of what you're talking about at all unless I run along thread with you post by post which is hugely time consuming / effort intensive and I feel like this game kind of just kills my spirit already which might also be why I'm finding it hard to respond to you on that. If you could ask any more specific questions that would probably be pretty helpful though.

As far as your ending reads at least I know I was feeling like Eddie was town so that's definitely a read I'd like to engage you on as soon as I've reread and have time (although the dayphase has already completely gone so I may have to hold off doing an actual reread until tomorrow); I think you're missing Tchill/Gin in your readslist? By the looks of it you're not really having any strong feelings about a lot of players either right now so maybe we can help each other get more engaged in the game and pull things out of just null? Talk to me about your Gamma read?

[Dark Horse]

Monkey I feel like I might've missed where you said this but what are your reason for scumreading eddie that don't involve robb?

[Dark Horse]

I'll post some more later. Basically I still think it's kort/monkey/massive and I'd be down with any of those 3 lynches as the day ends, with maybe an assembler one of it looks like itlll be a no lynch otherwise. I doubt eddie's scum

[Grendel]

Working with my town reads is one of my strongest weapons, so I'm curious why that would be especially scummy. How much resistance should I have shown?

That's not necessarily tied to this situation. Like working with another player=/= Dismissing your own reads. More over the speed that you moved back was unnaturally fast.

A more realistic reaction would have been to ask Gamma why he thinks I'm town. Compared to just taking his word for it.

[Grendel]

Also what is wrong with this town?!

Almost nothing has happened here since deadline extension and we are getting close to the final 24 hours. I don't know if I will be able to get on tomorrow so this basically feels like deadline today for me.

@nancy & Vedith

I need you guys to vote in your next post.

[RadiantCowbells]

Mathblade replaces Robbnva! Please welcome her.

Seeking replacement for Korts.

[Ginngie]

oh lort.

[MathBlade]

Hi everyone will read after dinner best I can.

I did take a quick skim of the VCs -- Can someone explain to me why D1 was a no lynch?

[Ginngie]

I think the closest he got too was 6 and that was because no one else was online, or they were online, and decided not to post

[MathBlade]

I think the closest he got too was 6 and that was because no one else was online, or they were online, and decided not to post

That is a summary of a true statement of a non lynch occurring because not enough votes but doesn't explain why not. I don't what a mechanical answer I want a why answer.

FoS Ginngie.

Now since limited posts gonna try to avoid posting til done with dinner.

[Ginngie]

VOTE: Math

okay.

[nancy]

Have a few things I need to do today before I can get to this but will make this game priority until deadline; will be around in ~4-5 hours.

I don't have a read on Math yet.

[MathBlade]

Fuck I am gonna get roasted so hard this game.

@robbnva I'm not really sure why you're reading Persephone's vote as non-RVS? Unless I'm misreading you here saying "we must have blood" seems pretty obviously a joke to me and you seem to have missed that entirely; is there some reason why you expect that kind of reasoning to be serious? I can see how you might read her as backtracking there if you did take her initial vote on you for not posting seriously but you don't seem to have brought that up; don't really get why you reiterate yourself in 16 without taking into account that she's said it was an RVS vote or why her not making sense is your main sticking point here if she is out of RVS.

@Persephone don't entirely see what you're doing here to get out of RVS if that's what you're genuinely trying to do; robbnva's issue with you seems to be that he thought your vote on him for not voting was something you actually found scummy, rather than an RVS vote; you don't seem to have made much effort to correct that misconception. Unless that actually was the case I'm a little confused by your approach here overall.

VOTE: nancy

Cmon nancy this is just bad. Stalling out conversation when it begins and wordy as fuck for no real good reason.

And you almost always have a true correct read on me in my first two posts [is dead serious].

You can have a vote. Let me know when you realize I am Town. Oh wait..:That goes against the scum agenda to give a conf!town. Carry on flailing.

[MathBlade]

No way TChill is ever becoming obvtown in this game.

This is also scum.

ISO is full of trying to sound justified versus being justified. Considering they were the person not lynched I am not surprised. Whoever replaced this user needs rope.

[MathBlade]

Titus or nancy or Ginngie.

Those wagons are the shiznit.

All others must have an airtight case for me to read because I got bored halfway through ISOs and wanna go back to killing scum.

[Tchill13]

That... Is an odd scum pool.

[Ginngie]

It's also all of the people that can correctly read Math lmfao

[RadiantCowbells]

Thanks to Drixx Do'urden.

Setting the game timer back to 2 days again. Prods have been going out this entire time.

[RadiantCowbells]

bump