Mini 572 - Packrats (game over)

[Skruffs]

O.o
Rotten Snitch, did you kill Strappado?

[Skruffs]

"gaoler - someone who guards prisoners" - the Free Online Dictionary. It also indicates 'law officer', but I am guessing that Gaoler meant 'jailkeeper'. That's unfortunate.

[Skruffs]

WOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLVEESSSS!

They're coming. To eat me.

*hides in a corner*

Vote: Skruffs

. He has survived the Night. He is therefore obviously a werewolf.

The last time you tried an early day one wagon on me, Zindaras, you were scum. I'm going to be scrutinizing you a lot more, this time. Just an EFF-WHY-EYE. I believe you (being paragon) are much more apt to be Glorked than I am in regards to surviving night one.

[Skruffs]

When was the last time I started an early day one wagon on you? You mean California? For one, that was ages ago. For two, compare the follow-up post in this game to the follow-up posts in California. And note the differences.

Also, I'm not a Paragon. Half of these people probably don't even know me.

No.
It was Dante's in Fresno.
You started a wagon on me, and when I had a few votes on, backed off and pseudo defended me.

Mizzy, Elmo, and eldarad:
All three of you are fossing and voting me because of my avatar?
If you are going to try and find a way to badly bandwagon on someone, you should really confer with your buddies and find *DIFFERENT* *REASONS* for it.

Zindaras:
Also, you obviously didn't recruit me, cultists can't recruit mafia, nyaah.

[Skruffs]

Also:

Vote: Eldarad

Last person on the wagon, I don't think we've ever met so I am wondering why you have a vested interest in an avatar you haven't seen before.

[Skruffs]

Skruffs, the game was called "California Trilogy I: Dantes in Fresno"

More later, hurry now.

Are you intentionally acting scummy or is this a routine you always do as scum??

[Skruffs]

If you knew what the game was called, why did you play the dunce when I first mentioned it?

Eldarad:

Just checking in

vote Skruffs

because I preferred the old avatar better

How did you see my "old avatar", that your preferred enough to vote me, in scum chat?

Unvote, Vote : Zindaras

I'm not going to give you the chance to NK me again, And after the last three games in which you were scum, I think an early strike against you is more beneficial to town.

[Skruffs]

I'm confused also by your "The game only identifies vanilla townies."... that strikes me as wrong, because Strappado was not a vanilla townie.

Secondarily, if the scum were allowed to kill n0, then the investigative roles were allowed to target as well.

I'd like to introduce some meta into the game regarding strappado, me, rotten snitch, zindaras, and others. I don't have to but it might be worth stimulating discussion with.

[Skruffs]

I didn't say it did Zindaras; however, I did point out that you acted the exact same way at the beginning of California Trilogy, and you were scum in that game, and all you did in response was correct the title of the game and ignore it otherwise. That's a big tell, on you, for me.

I *was* NK'd in that game, and NK'd in the game with Ripley in it after we mislynched him at enggame, and you WOULD have NK'd me in Meadows of Sorrow if you had been alive to be able to do that.

I never inferred you had a policy of NKing me night 1 - when did you infer that?

And I didn't say that you were scum in this game BECAUSE you were scum in the last three games we played in together, I am inferring that you are acting NOW like the scum you WERE in those games.

[Skruffs]

Well, something I would like to point out is that in the death scene, there is hinting of strappado possibly being a werewolf - perhaps that's just how I interpreted it, though.

I am town, and if I am a werewolf, I am not aware of it;l similarly, and I am thinking of two other games here that is making me go this way; it's possible that we are all werewolves except the 'mafia' who perhaps are a group of outsiders. We don't know HOW strappado was killed (shot vs ate) so that doesn't help.

In Mith's California Trilogy, many of the power roles thought they were characters from a book but were actually famous residents from Fresno California. In Space Monkeys, the townies thought they were mafia, or something along those lines.

All I know about the game is that the theme is werewolves, there's nothing conclusive about there actually BEING werewolves, etc.

The meta was that when the game was still in signups, ether (the mod) asked me about the two n00bs, rotten snitch and strappado, who i know in real life. At least one player in this game right now was in the chatroom when i 'validated' rotten snitch and strappado (This was before roles were assigned and in public) as competent players who I know and who know each other - so one of them dying could be a red herring to get me to attack R.S. or vice versa. I'm not going to use it as such, but that's the 'meta' information I wa sreferring to.

Also I saw patrick and ether promise a scum role to zindaras, but that's beside the point. >.>

[Skruffs]

Yes you must be wary of the subtle emote at the end of my sentences, tehy are SO manipulative.

I remember Patrick and Ether saying they had promised scum roles to SEVERAL people before roles were actually sent out. I do not think if they were actually legitimately promising roles, they would have said so out loud, but SINCE the topic of the chat at that time WAS about Ether's game, the theme of which would only be noted as that of "werewolves", I think that it is VERY likely that someone may have overheard it, thought nothing of it, and then remembered during Night 0 when they said "Hmm...' and used it as a reason, for the sole point of creating a situation.

I'm not actually trying to make a situation of it myself, I am merely putting this information out there so that it can be acknowledged and discarded.

Rotten Snitch, I'm curious: The implications of what I was saying was that YOU were being set up the bomb, however, you took that pretty defensively.

Almost as if...

AS IF...

you had a guilty conciounse... >.> <.<

[Skruffs]

Sorry I been absentee, had a ROUGH week!
(innuendo here)
I'll read up but I like it more when players offer opinionated summaries. Anyone wanna do that for me?

[Skruffs]

Hmmm.

Unvote (if necessary) Vote Andycaca

Something about the way he was talking about distancing strikes me as someone who wants to keep attention on BOTH of us without really caring who...

his comment on how RS was voting himself and yet bitching at -2 actually makes me think RS might be town; he can continue to rile people up and if he DOES get close to being lynched (ie -1) he can unvote himself and draw it out a little longer, or turn it around, while putting more attention on those who might seem opportunistic. Andycaca went to the trouble of looking at WHO was on Rotten Snitch's wagon and then calling him out for being on it, deridedly. I think Andycaca wants a clean lynch on Rotten Snitch and he's balking until he feels more comfortable he can get it.

[Skruffs]

ALso:
zindaras is not off the hook and needs to be analyzed mercilessly throughout the game (As I am pretty sure he will outlast me)

[Skruffs]

I was about to complain about hte immediacy of a deadline on day one, but I see that it's not a real dedline, more like a "Sell By Date", so that's okay.

[Skruffs]

I"d be fine with quicklynching Zindaras. He's soooo scum, it makes my pores itch just reading his name on on the screen, and it's going to be hard for me to get over that huge glaring black spot on my scumdar while he's still alive.

[Skruffs]

Not really. Me and Zindaras have a history, a history in which he wwas factually scum every time but one. So I am trained to be suspicious of him now. I'm still posting out side of that suspicion, but as the number of players dwindle, the more likely i will be to push for his lynch.

[Skruffs]

Zindaras, why bitch about worthless info if it's not really worthless, and if you aren't adding any yourself?

You are playing like a superstar, just giving anecdotal analysis without putting yourself 'out there' at all, and even discouraging other players from doing so. Attempt to look ::wise:: without putting yourself in a position to be analyzed. IE flying under the radar. IE what you did in two other games as scum, that I have been in, and after starting the game the exact same way as you did in a Third game, that you were scum in, in which you started by voting me for a bad reason then dropped it to look town later on.

So, regardless of the fact that you have been scum recently, my actual basis for suspicion on you is on your play in this game. If you tend to start bad bandwagons as town in other games, give me an example or two. But if you want me to just say "Oh it's zindaras, yay, so happy to see you" then you can forget it, I've been burned and I'm not giving you any benefits until I have a good reason to; a reason, through your actions this game, that you are not giving me.

[Skruffs]

FoS: Skruffs

for not leaving past grudges behind back in the games they belong in, drawing focus away from the two scum candidates, and being tunnel-visioned. Zindaras' role/alignment in other games has absolutely no baring on his role/alignment in this one. Get past it.

okay, but if you actually looked at my post you would see:

So,

regardless of the fact that you have been scum recently, my actual basis for suspicion on you is on your play in this game

. If you tend to start bad bandwagons as town in other games, give me an example or two. But if you want me to just say "Oh it's zindaras, yay, so happy to see you" then you can forget it, I've been burned and I'm not giving you any benefits until I have a good reason to; a reason, through your actions this game, that you are not giving me.

Mizzy just took Zindaras's "Skruffs says I'm scum because I'm always scum" quote and ran with it, and ignored everything else I said. I think that's called strawmanning, right?

And if you want me to drop the meta, why didn't you scold Zindaras for:
"Sir T obviously fails to acknowledge my personality, don't know if it's scum stubbornness or simply town paranoia."

This is why I said he is playing like a superstar: He's tried to use his *undescribed* personality as a reason to change people's opinions at least twice so far this game; and I don't like that. And I really don't like how you are being two faced about this, MIzzy.


Before I say anything, I want to suggest

and even discouraging other players from doing so.

You can make assertions, but you have to back them up.

"Elmo is giving me "cruise"-vibes. He's basically cruising through the game without really saying anything. " <- was this backed up?

"Why put worthless info in the thread? " <- worthless by your dictation.
'it seems like Y is overanalyzing"
"though Capricious is doing some silly speculation, in my opinion"
"Andycyca's 123 is odd, as pointed out before. Easy talk about distancing." "Skruffs's 130 is flat-out worthless."
"Rotten Snitch's 135 is actually an example of pure WIFOM. Don't see those often. "


None of these comments actually adress anything being said, or encourage discusion at all. The ones that aren't actually denigratory are reviews so vague that there is nothing that can be pulled out of them.

Attempt to look ::wise:: without putting yourself in a position to be analyzed. IE flying under the radar.

Oh. So how can my post not be analyzed?

Never said it couldn't be, I said it was designed NOT to be. Look town without drawing attention to yourself. HOW is that not a scum tell?

and after starting the game the exact same way as you did in a Third game, that you were scum in, in which you started by voting me for a bad reason then dropped it to look town later on.

I've posted this before (where you completely ignored it), but the behaviour in California was completely different from this game. I started off in both games with a joke vote on you. In California, I expanded upon it, actually forcing a wagon and flinging out whatever crap-argument there was.[/quote]
And then you dropped it, when the wagon got tight, and started defending the very person you helped build a case on.

Compared to this game, where I immediately dropped it the next post and went on to other things, there's really no basis for comparison.

Yes, but, you dropped it right after I pointed it out, didn't you? If it was a joking random vote, why did you immediately retract it when I drew similarities between this game and another in which you were scum?

And you didn't drop it, because a few posts later, you popped up with:

I converted Skruffs.
*waits for Cult accusations*

SO you didn't QUITE drop it because you later on did a jokey-attempt at trying to draw attention back to us anyways. ANd I hate things like that because they look innocuous until you are dead and scum and people start analyzing your posts to find ties to people. You're not paragon but you DO know how to play; you've been in over a hundred games, so why would you intentionally lay out breadcrumbs like that?

And then add to that the fact that there is no reason to consider it odd behaviour to begin with.

Oh. Well. If you say so, it must be true - right Mizzy?

We have actually only played three games from the start together (so only three random voting phases). In the third game (Newbie 293), I started by voting voidybuns.

Did you say that she was scum when you did? Did you make a joke about it? How long did it last?

So, regardless of the fact that you have been scum recently, my actual basis for suspicion on you is on your play in this game.

If you tend to start bad bandwagons as town in other games, give me an example or two.

But if you want me to just say "Oh it's zindaras, yay, so happy to see you" then you can forget it, I've been burned and I'm not giving you any benefits until I have a good reason to; a reason, through your actions this game, that you are not giving me.

Starting bad bandwagons? Now, this amuses me, here. Where the hell did I start a 'wagon on you here? You mean Mizzy's vote, which was definitely influenced by mine?

Starting a wagon does not mean getting a wagon off the ground. ANd you ignored about 75% of those paragraphs; which I think should be relevant to you since you seem to eb trying to get people to think of you specially since you have some sort of 'great personality'.

All you have been saying so far about me this game have been spurious reasons for finding me scummy, laced with lies. For example:

Not really. Me and Zindaras have a history, a history in which he wwas factually scum every time but one. So I am trained to be suspicious of him now. I'm still posting out side of that suspicion, but as the number of players dwindle, the more likely i will be to push for his lynch.

"Factually scum every time but one."

Let's check some of the facts here.

Skruffs's games where he was in with me (taken from his current Wiki, which I assume is updated better than mine):
Newbie 293: Skruffs=Scum, Zindaras=Town.
Open 20: Skruffs=Town, Zindaras=Scum. <-counted this one

Open 35: Big Love

[: Skruffs=Scum, Zindaras=Scum. <- you replaced out of this one almost as soon as I replaced in, we didn't play together so I didn't count it.
Famous Cats Mafia: Skruffs=Town, Zindaras=Town. <- I had forgotten this one, but I shouldn't have, this is the game you tried to get me lynched despite having multiple investigations clearing me.

Mostly Mute Mafia: Haiku Edition

: Skruffs=Scum, Zindaras=Town. <- You were not in this game while I was in it, I didn't count it.

Mafia 68: Ork Mafia

: Skruffs=Town, Zindaras=Town. <- you were not in this game while I was in it, I didnt count it.

Two-Headed Mafia 2

: Skruffs=Town, Zindaras=Town. <-we were the exact same role, there was no way we could fight each other, I didnt count it.
Meadows of Sorrow Mafia: Skruffs=Town, Zindaras=Scum. <-
California: Dantes in Fresno: Skruffs=Town, Zindaras=Scum. <- the most recent game played and so the bulk of my opinion of your playstyle is based on it.
Kingmaker II: Skruffs=Town, Zindaras=Town. <-the last game I trusted you in.

I know you will cry "You're changing the facts", but the facts change significantly if you look at games where we ACTUALLY PLAYED each other (which are the games that affect my opinion of your game play) versus just games that we both were in at one point or another. The basis of my previous experience with you is in fact based on:
Skruffs's Scum Ratio: 1/6 (17%)
Zindaras's Scum Ratio:

3/6

(50%)
I had forgotten about Kingmaker, because I replaced in close to twilight and died that night.

So, what do we find? Skruffs is pushing the "Zindie is always scum" angle so he can't be held accountable when I turn up town, yet his "facts" are, in fact, lies.[/quote]

You are pushing the "Skruffs is trying to say I'm always scum" angle publicly and ignoring the questions I am asking one - on - one. You're not talking to me, you're talking to everyone else; which suggests that you are not responding to my posts as a way to reassure me but rather as a way to lower other player's opinions of my ability to catch scum.

[Skruffs]

Additionally: It being Day 1, I am purging my system of all the meta-game material and such so that it is out there, and like i said earlier, can be addressed and dismissed. I am pretty sure that everyone would prefer to play stupidly day one rather than day five, and if my beginning assessments are considered in error, than I will continue that. Considering I know Rotten Snitch in real life, I thought it *was* meritted to bring up any information about the game that happened before hand; Zindaras was in the chat room when I Was talking about it with Ether and it's amusing that he is immediately suggesting that I not speculate on who killed her when (of course) that speculation would lead back to him if it was pursued. Of course it also leads back to me and Rotten Snitch, too.

Because I brought that up, I also brought up the meta-analysis on Zindaras. Regardless of that, he *IS* acting fishy, and metas aside I *am not happy* With the way he's playing, it's REALLY getting to me. Mizy has shown up as his buddybuddy, so I am going to investigate her, next. I also have a nother meta I just researched which tells me Zindaras is probably town, but I digress. This is why I am going to investigate mizzy. Her last post struck me as a defensive scum buddy.

[Skruffs]

Mizzy:
You are saying that I am using Smoke and Mirrors to pull attention from two other players; which begs the question: Why are you so deadset in having one of only two people lynched today and so against explorations into other venues? Do you have a vested interest in other players NOT being investigated/criticized?

[Skruffs]

I'm not saying zin's superstar/personality things are lynch worthy, I am asking for people to

IGMEOY

Zindaras - the idea of which seems to really ruffle Mizzy.

[Skruffs]

And if you want me to drop the meta, why didn't you scold Zindaras for:
"Sir T obviously fails to acknowledge my personality, don't know if it's scum stubbornness or simply town paranoia."

Because I don't scold adults. I just call the shots as I see them. Honestly, I have been complaining about the meta crap in general, but (and I realize this is a bit hypocritical, trust me) personality is important to games to me, too.

What are you saying here? That I'm not an adult? That Zindaras isn't trying to coerce Sir T to meta him? That Zindaras *is* using a meta to clear himself, and that's okay, but it's not okay for me to bring meta in as part of my reasons for suspicions of him? You realize I am analysing Zindaras's

personality

as town or as scum, as the basis for the perceived meta, right?

Also: The "Give me a well thought out case" means nothing to me and is usually a scum tell: you are putting the basis of whether something is a good case solely to be judged by your own discretion, and you are saying in the above post that your discretion is based on a player-by-player basis.

If I said "Give me enough money and I will give you a kiss", I've eestablished two things:
1) the amount of money needed for a kiss is a variable; otherwise I would have said "Give me a nickel", etc. Inasmuch, I can make the amount of money required for that kiss as much as I want it to be, or even not have an amount at all and just allow you to think I have an amount.
2) I'm a hooker, and am only willing to partake in the kissings IF I am financially obligated to.

Since Kissing (or in this case, scumhunting) is the entire point of TOWN'S existance in this game, an unwillingness to scumhunt automatically, indeed, needing to be coerced or bribed by another into scum hunting (or at least agreeing with said scumhunting) does NOT strike me as pro-town.

Please do not take this to indicate I'm calling you a hooker, it's just a metaphor. Similarly, I am not breadcrumbing being a roleblocker.

[Skruffs]

You are voting me because my suspicions and theories are ... not connected to this game?

What are they connected to?

What are you getting at, exactly? I am working with the information I have: This game is not giving me enough so I am pulling in outside information to be discussed and used or ignored, and everything I am saying *is* based on the game, but like Mizzy and Zindaras, you are ignoring the parts that actually have to deal with this game, and focussing on the Deliciously Easy Scapegoat of Using Metas.

This coming from the person who suggested that the mafia might be newbies who didn't know who the stronger players were,

followed by your own suggestion that they would know strong players would be protected and so targeted a player unlikely to be targeted.

Is this a situation where you are acussing someone of doing the samae thing you did, aka a newbie mistake? Cuz I thought you only did that as scum.

[Skruffs]

How did you form that conclusion?

He's unvoted previously, when he unvoted and then voted Rotten Snitch.

So if it turns out that his vote IS immovable, you have a lot of explaining to do for knowing that for no reason.


Wow I'm in both flavor scenes.

[Skruffs]

How did you form that conclusion?

He's unvoted previously, when he unvoted and then voted Rotten Snitch.

So if it turns out that his vote IS immovable, you have a lot of explaining to do for knowing that for no reason.


Wow I'm in both flavor scenes.

Please re-read and note that two different people are attempting to move Andy's vote to 'Unvote' but don't. What other conclusion would you come to? It was my first thought after seeing that the flavor says that they couldn't move it.

Two different people who AREN'T andycaca are talking about the chalk and chalkboard being broken, but these people are NOT the governors/tally takers, I would assume that it's a flavor post about the deadline, and nothing more. A vote count would help explain this, though.

[Skruffs]

Anyone who's NOT voting and DOESN'T post in the next fourteen hours is scum trying to push a nolynch.

[Skruffs]

It's absolutely NOT circular logic, Mizzy, and I think you are throwing that word around because you've seen other people do it.

We only get a lynch by voting people.

We have to remain active to prevent losing the ability to lynch today.

Thus if someone is voting, they are helping to reach a lynch.
If someone is posting, wether they are voting or not, they are helping OTHERS to reach a lynch as well.

So being active and voting people is helping to reach a lynch, there is NO REASON not to have a lynch, so people who are NOT being active and NOT voting ARE TRYING TO REACH A NO LYNCH.

This is logic, and it's NOT circular. If you want to debate how no - lynching is good for the town, the stage is all yours, mizzy.

(Incidentally, Mizzy's scumbuddy zindaras is not voting).

[Skruffs]

Just considering things here:
If there is a scum group of some sort, and only one (as compared to an individual or multiple smaller partners) then there are probably 3 of those scum.That meansa that out of 11 players, if scum decides to not post after deadline, 6 out of 8 of the town players HAVE to post EVRY 24 HOUR cycle to contin discussion.
Considering we only have TWO WEEKS per day cycle, the current deadline cycle HEAVILY FAVORS no lynching if as many as 3 protown players are even SLIGHTLY inactive at any point during the game after the first two weeks of the game are up. Defending inactiveness therefore helps scum more.

Unvote, Vote Myzzy

[Skruffs]

There are only two players who both haven't posted and aren't voting, not three. Sorry, you lose. I also did not say that scum could ONLY be not-voting and not-contributing, merely that scum WOULD do that if they could. Hopefully, having called that out, town AND scum will both be forced to post more in the fear that if they don't they will get in trouble. All of this seems to go past you, though, even though you claim to not like non-postings and non-voters either.

[Skruffs]

Which is why I am voting you, incidentally, m

I

zzy.

[Skruffs]

You didn't prove anything; You used circular reasoning to try and say I was circular reasoning.

"

Circular reasoning is an attempt to support a statement by simply repeating the statement in different or stronger terms. In this fallacy, the reason given is nothing more than a restatement of the conclusion that poses as the reason for the conclusion. To say, “You should exercise because it’s good for you” is really saying, “You should exercise because you should exercise.”

"

You posited this as your 'circular reasoning model":

1 scum like no-lynches and
2 participation keeps no-lynch from happening...
3 so, all non-participants must be scum becase
4 Goto line 1

If you want to say that it's circular reasoning, fine, but anyone could take ANY scum tell as a course of circular reasoning, which makes scum hunting (in your eyes) completely useless anyways! more on that below this roast:

What I said was that people who avoid posting in the next 12 hours and are not voting, ARE SCUM. You have agreed, if not that forcing a no-lynch is scummy, that you at least don't 'like' inactivity. You yourself are posting AND voting. You then tried to use some sort of inverse of what I said to try and clear yourself, which is blatantly ridiculous; you seem to have a vested interest in making sure Zindaras is protected, and you are using increasingly drastic measures to stifle attempts to incriminate him. Unless you are a cop with an innocent on him, are masons with him, or are SCUM with him, or are scum trying to incriminate him, you have no reason to go that far to protect him, and even then, only the fourth option winds up helping *you* to any degree.


Also: And I looked through your posts. You started off the game by following Zindaras on to me. Then you hopped onto Rotten Snitch, the first bandwagon. Until post 6, you do absolutely no scum hunting at all, you talk about fuzzy kittens in more posts than you talk about the game, and you use fuzzy kittens as our reason for voting me in the first place (presumably, seems kind of forced reasoning to me).

At post 6 you start trying to get people to stop scumhunting by saying 'it's only page three' - and by saying nobody can think anyone is scum yet. That was in regards to Sir Tornado saying Zindaras was scum

for buddying up to you

.

Zindaras corrects you with correct townie thinking, (which you don't acknowledge), but in your next post you both backtrack and push your case, by saying that random voting is great, even though you said previously that it couldn't have led to anything substantial, which suggests to me you think it's great

because

you don't think it can lead to good scum hunting? You then go on to say that NOBODY could know anyone is scum or not yet, which is directly rebutting Sir Tornado's case against Zindaras without actually addressing the information specifically; not only are you rebuffing it, you don't seem at all interested in the information that leads Sir T to that conclusion - so the idea of Zindaras buddying up to you (as I read your post) is not a concern to you at ALL. The only way, again, that you can know he's not scum is if he's in your scum group, or not in your scum group, or if you are masons, etc. You deride Sir T's case as pure meta, but in retrospect you haven't looked at Zindaras at all.

In your next post you inform the rest of the game that you expect to see, instead of random finger pointing (which you said in a previous post that you love) case and logic, again, in regards to Sir Tornado's case against Zindaras. You repeat that Sir T's case is pure meta; again, but until this point the only scum hunting you have done is dismissing other player's scum hunting while bemoaning the 'loss' of the self-proclaimed frivolous random stage. Or in short:

You don't want to leave random stage, and if the town leaves it, you expect them to jump immediately into sound cases, and you don't want to do it yourself.

This is Primo-scumtalk; as someone who is scum you have the luxury of dismissing 'bad cases' because you *know* whether it is based in fact or not; because of that you have a great opportunity to look pro-town without actually sticking your neck out, I did the exact same thing in a newbie game once which is why I'm picking up on it.

No, I think that itself is pretty good reason: You have deflected several lines of inquiry against Zindaras by multiple players, you do NOT seem to be all that interested in scum hunting yourself AND you have a 'standard' you expect from other players which alows you to ignore wagons/suspicions that aren't 'logical' enough, when the only people who DO have logical, fact based argumetns ARE power roles AND scum. I think you are scum.

[Skruffs]

Incidentally: My belief that you are scum is the ONLY REASON *I* need to be voting you, Mizzy, and until you give me a solid, logical case as to why you

aren't

scum, all the fussing in the world is not going to change that belief.

Also: you're a pottymouth.

[Skruffs]

Skruffs, last time I was scum, I really wanted to get a townie lynched. I believe most scum groups like townies getting lynched whenever they can.

What you're doing, actually, is to encourage a lynch, saying that whoever doesn't is scum, while the actual interest of scum is to get people lynched.
Nice one.

If there is a scum group of some sort, and only one (as compared to an individual or multiple smaller partners) then there are probably 3 of those scum.That meansa that out of 11 players, if scum decides to not post after deadline, 6 out of 8 of the town players HAVE to post EVRY 24 HOUR cycle to contin discussion.

What are you basing this numbers on, when we don't really know anything yet?

Are you *REALLY* insinuating that because scum like to get townies lynched, I must be scum, because I am trying to avoid a no lynch?

You seem to have forgotten that (and this is assuming that based on one kill there are no vigs) the only way town can kill scum is by LYNCHING.

It is inherently more important for town to lynch (And possibly be wrong) than it is for scum to mislynch.

While I am not saying scum will not jump at an opurtunity to get a townie mislynched, the longer scum lets deadline drag on, the more likely it is that town can figure out enough to get one of them lynched, so post deadline, they are going to shut up and not vote.

Big Fos : Y

Is there anyone I haven't attacked yet?
Zindaras, Rotten, Andycaca, Mizzy, Y....

[Skruffs]

We have to have a majority of players post every 24 hours to make a deadline, and we have to do it every 24 horus, and we only get 14 days for each day before this has to happen. Basically we have two weeks to quick lynch everyone *every day* or else scum can lurk-kill their way to victory. I think this voting system would be more effective if hte days were a little longer, but that's personal.

[Skruffs]

Unvote, Vote Andycaca

[Skruffs]

So wait, mizzy:
You go out of your way to deflect or criticize lines of talk that involve zindaras not being town, and then to the exact opposite in regards to me and rotten snitch?

You have made it abundantly clear (to me) that you have a vested interest in protecting zindaras, over other players. Why?

[Skruffs]

I'd like to formally request a [b$special deadline exclusion[/b], this weekend being a global holiday inwhere probably at least some players won't be able to post.

Ether, your hair looks wonderful today. You're such a great mod!

[Skruffs]

WHAT?!
Don't they have RABBITS in ISRAEL?!!
D:

[Skruffs]

Capricious could be voting Andycaca to help achieve a lynch, bu instead he is voting himself, so...

Unvote, Vote : Capricious

It's pointless to jump through hoops to extend a deadline if we aren't coming to a conclusion.

[Skruffs]

note:
mizzy may have indicated thoughts that Capri is town inher last sentence of her last post. Voting himself infers a lack of caring about himself, not necessarily town. It would only be a lack fo caring to town if he himself is town.

Secondarily, an Unvote is less helpful to the town than keeping his vote on himself at least by voting himself he's helping SOME sort of lynch. An unvote followed by a vote on someone else would be more helpful, of course. An unvote would only be helpful, to town, if Capricious is town voting himself, right?

[Skruffs]

Yeahbut, you forgot
A) Is scum and is voting himself to help scumbuddies look good
B) Is scum and doesn't care that he is scum so is giving up
etc...
all of your options are with him as town.

[Skruffs]

Why not bored/stupid scum though? Or brave town?

[Skruffs]

We've been cutting deadline requirements shorter and shorter. It is now a matter of whether you would rather lynch Capricious or not at all. Either vote him or be responsible for a non-lynch.

[Skruffs]

Yosarian2 only laughs when he's nervous, and he's only nervous
when
he's
SCUM.

[Skruffs]

Mizzy and (zind) are scum, but would prefer to lynch mito help case on zind

Yos is 'fine' and pretending to be town while ignoriing looking at serious things?
(Case against zind was inflamed by others, etc)

Capri is in need of being lynched, don't like players that are playing russian roulette with deadline

[Skruffs]

My justification is that if someone isn't lynched, we don't get information.
Capricious was at three, the person I was voting was at three. I changed to Capricious to put him at 4.

That is my justification: I am trying to get a day one lynch when we have to fight every 24 hours to be able to do that and some people are blithely stalling or trying to entail a nolynch.

I *may* have just said this in my last post, not sure.


Yos: If something looks bad, I should be questioned on it. You are a smart man, you can figure things out. I understand you just replaced in but something about your "Well shucks howdy folks" strikes me as an act. I don't really like it.

[Skruffs]

Ding Dong!
Five more people need to post, or one mroe needs to vote Capricious.

[Skruffs]

Man you are on late!

I am anxious to CORRECTLY END day One, NOT get to night 2. Night 2 is inevitable, and we are playing with a loaded gun by drawing day 1 out. We either get a STRONG wagon on someone other than Capricious, FAST, (because scum would rather not post and let day go to night with a no-lynch then let themselves be quicklynched) OR we lynch Capricious and have SOME info OR we do nothing and let the big ? wait until tomorrow.

Which is most favorable in your eyes?

[Skruffs]

^- Translation "hope for nolynch"

[Skruffs]

Assuming I am in the next block right now.
Filler post !

[Skruffs]

I am not antitown town. I have a pretty good track record, matter of fact, except the last two Lylos, but in both of those cases, the other other town player was ignorant or absentee.

[Skruffs]

Lynch scumkitties, moving, we're playing with fire by withbdeadlines
Can anyonew check to see if anyone's posting frequency before/after deadline has passed

[Skruffs]

HMmmmm.
Elmo: Think it's about Andy.

[Skruffs]

Oh, okay. ^.^

It's really easy to pick at other players without, you know, putting yourself at risk, isn't it?

[Skruffs]

Y:
I see absolutely NO posts where you criticized for attacking me. Since you decided to pick a person that several other players have already shown resentment towards, I imagine that you picked a player that you could 'bandwagon'-attack, knowing that your sentiments would be easily shared - and carried, by others. Thus, you attacked someone that would lead to NO risk of yourself being attacked. I do not see WHERE you were attacked, but please quote posts where you were voted against and/or attacked for being suspicious of me. Obviously, I do not count in this, because I am the one who called you out in it.

[Skruffs]

Can we lynch Mizzy?
I am voting Capri ONLY to ensure a day one lynch, which is town's ONLY WEAPON that we can be sure of at this juncture. I have been saying since the FIRST DAY that we entered deadline that we needed to hammer fast, because otherwise scum will just lay low and wait for the atrophy to sink in until we miss a deadline and lose.

Mizzy is SCUM. D: SCUM I TELL YOU LYNCH THE BETCH!!! If not today than tomorrow.

[Skruffs]

vote : mizzy

[Skruffs]

Hey, Zindy?

In what instance is a no-lynch better than the lynch of someone who is voting for themself, on a day one?

Mizzy and zindy: in what instances do two players express, in all ways other than verbal acknowledgment, confidence in each other's alignment? I can think of three but maybe you can extrapolate..

[Skruffs]

Side note: I don't recall your holier than thouness attitude BEFORE capri was lynched... Were you saving it until after, just for this reason?

[Skruffs]

So there *are* werewolves? Because other than in flavor text, I haven't seen any indication that we actually are up against wolves.

"Zindaras whistles, and she looks up. Her prodstick brushes Elmo's body, which falls over. There is a ghastly expression on his face, or at least, most of it." Strappado's death doesn't even REFER To how she died.

So other than the flavoring, which we h ave no reason to believe means ANYTHING, there's nothing that concretely suggests that there are werewolves, wolves, lupines erectus, or anything like that in our midst. Unless you just slipped, because you are one?

And if someone was treating me as a townie, and buddying up to me as hard core as the two of you are to each other, I Would be suspicious, unless I was masons, and even then I would be suspicious about why my partner was tying himself to me so strongly.

You are not playing in the townie manner to which I am accustomed, Zindaras.

[Skruffs]

I hadn't noticed that thing about Capricious. Thanks Y. I don't see Zindaras quoting it, so I have no idea if he actually noticed it or not.

I do not see where in the game it *said* something along the lines of "I signed up for a game which tells me to look for wolves", and I do not see where him not turning into a werewolf MEANS that there are werewolves, BUT, I am okay with assuming that there are werewolves. I just note that Zindaras seems to be more sure of it than I Am.


Secondarily, I am surprised, Mizzy, that you are flabbergasted where these allegations of you and Zindaras buddying up to each other came from. BAsically since the first vote on either of you, both of you have been defending each other, and I do not believe I have seen either of you direct aNY questioning towards eeach other; in short, both of you have tsarted from the get-go with the belief that the other is town, or at least not worth scrutinizing. That's supcious.


Zindaras: Investigations would only be accurate if one was a cop, one was a godfather. THe godfather would say "Oh, this person thinks I am town ; since they are not in my mafia group, they must have inspected me night 0." A townie would say "Is this person buddying up to me because they inspected me, or because they are mafia?"



We have TWO WEEKS from the beginning of hte day to find a good lynch. After that, We are playing a very risky game by guessing that enough players will post to beat the continually recurring deadline, over and over again. XZindaras avoided the entire first day of deadline, but made an effort after that. Mizzy distracted from potentiial wagons, but posted, perhaps as an excuse to ohurt the town while looking like she was helping it. IF she is a cop who investigated Zindaras, there's no reason for her to also think Capricious is town; she only has one investigation. IF she is a mason with Zindaras, she again has no reason to think Capricious (or anyone else) is town. IF she is mafia, tshe can afford to get townie-points by denigrating wagons on pro-town players so that she looks like a better scum hunter, WITHOUT Actually doing any scum hunting herslef, which would keep the cop from looking at her at anight.


This is why I am voting her.

[Skruffs]

Okay.

Zindaras started off voting me. I called him out on it. You ignored my call out on that, and joined in on voting me.. Why?

Capricious says that Zindaras, me, and elmo are cats and therefore scum, and you say, wouldn't cxats be pro town?

Zindaras agrees with and says he likes you already. He then unvotes from me and hops on Capricious; and Elmo, who Capri also said was scum (in his demented way) follows.

Zindaras says that he is ac ultist and recruited me, and you ignore that, too, to talk about your affinity for cute things.

Y says the last time Capricious tried to get him lynched, he was scummed, and Zindaras expresses interest in this line of thinking: he asks for proof. He then voted Capricious. And all through this you are setting up your later "But I hate leaving random stages" by trying to put "kittah" into every post while ignoring actually interacting on more than a very surface level play. Wether you have a huge fetish for random stages or not, trying to keep the game superficial, even at the beginning, or at least trying to keep your OWN interactions superficial, doesn't win up helping hte town later on. ESPECIALLY when you then fall back on that play style when you ask for "proof" later on that you did ANYTHING, because it now just looks more obvious that you took pains to discredit yourself early in the game.


So, I will do it the opposite way. The game started at hte beginning of MArch: Your first post was on MArch 3rd. You quoted Zindaras two hours after your first post. You do not directly quote Zindaras, or ask Zindaras a direct question, or do ANYTHING to indicate anything but complete trust of him until.....
*Searching*

On March 18th you question my questioning of him, by saying that I can't Meta Zindaras. You didn't tell Zindaras that he couldn't meta Capricious when he voted him (as I said earlier in this poist) though. I mean, you attacked Capricious yourself in the same post. Did you tell anyone, before you told me I couldn't meta Zindaras, that they couldn't Meta? I don't think so. So why did metaing Zindaras trigger that? WHy the defense of someone that you have no reason to believe is innocent?

This is relevant to your attitutde today:

You

FOS

me later for 'distracting from the two scum candidates' by putting attention on Zindaras: That is BLATANTLY saying, "I don't want Zindaras to be considered scum". Guess what, the candidate that you wanted to keep the attention on, Capricious? He turned out to be town, and you are now FOSSING people for lynching him, when you yourself was pushing for attention to be kept on him and NOT OTHER PEOPLE. (I later call you out on that and you try to backtrack)


When I Call you out on that the first time and accuse Zindaras of his super-star playstyle, you do make an effort to distance: You give him an

IGMEOY

but then immediately weaken it by saying you don't want to flip flop your votes; ie it doesn't mean anything. You later fall back on that by saying that since you are already EYEing zindaras, there's really nothing else warranted against him. So the IGMEOY was basically just a faux-note, something you could rely on later to bounce attention away from Zindaras yourself.



Let me get this correct: Y started a case against Capricious, you followed Zindaras onto Capricious (just like you followed him onto me) y ou try to keep attention on Capricious and not Zindaras (or presumably anyone else) And then shortly before deadline, you change your vote to me, FOS capricious, berate me for not putting a case TO YOUR liking together against Zindaras while at the same time trying to DETRACT any case against Zindaras and NOT putting ANY Thought into him yourself, and then when Capricious is lynched and turn up town, you immediately begin ot berate the people who were voting him.


Are you going to accuse me of factless argument here? CAn you say that you didni't do any of those things in the above paragraph? Considering I referenced the posts in which you did most if not all of those in the paragraphs above?

[Skruffs]

Lastly: You never do direct quote Zindaras after March 8th or so; you don't even address him directly until April 5th, a full month after hte game started. Buddying by omission.

[Skruffs]

Allright, let's do it your way, Zindaras.
Quotes:
Skruffs: 13, 14, 15, 24, 25, 48, 53, 54
SirT/Yos: 11, 16, 18, 49, 50, 51, 52
Mizzy: 5, 13, 14, 25, 49 (none of these are in any way investigative, and are in some cases "guiding" Mizzy away from dangerous trains of thought)
capricious: 11, 24, 28, 37
Y: 8, 12, 43
eldarad : 44, 51
cow: 3
elmo : 40
Never quoted:
Andycaca
Rotten Snitch


And Missy:

Skruffs: 4, 5, 12, 21, 33, 34, 36, 37, 38, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 59, 60, 61, 62, 79, 82, 84

cow: 7, 11, 28, 41, 51, 67, 68
eldarad: 22, 53, 54, 70, 71, 80, 82
Rotten: 9, 23, 25, 26, 27, 29l 73
Y: 3, 6, 17, 18, 20, 58, 72

Capricious: 1, 39, 40, 55

Elmo: 31, 32, 64
Sir Tornado/Yosarian: 13, 15, 63

Andy : 8, 19
Zindaras: 2, 6

Never quoted: Nobody


I will follow this up with a quote-post from Andycaca. (Here's a hint: he doesn't quote Zindaras, either)

So, thanks Zindaras. Your blatant mockery led me to a rather unusual find: You , Mizzy, and Andycac rarely quote each other. ^.^

[Skruffs]

Skruffs:

Says his justification for voting/being on the Capri wagon is information gathering and to keep from having a mislynch. Doesn't mention finding him to be scum that I can find.

My justification is that if someone isn't lynched, we don't get information.
Capricious was at three, the person I was voting was at three. I changed to Capricious to put him at 4.

That is my justification: I am trying to get a day one lynch when we have to fight every 24 hours to be able to do that and some people are blithely stalling or trying to entail a nolynch.

You are right. I thought Andycaca was more likely scum than Capricious. I didn't really think Capricious was scum. However, as uninformed town, I am not going to say, like you did, the equivalent of "Let's keep all suspicion on only two people and criticize other people for branching away from that, and then say that this person is town and criticize people for not going in other directions" because I recall you being suspicious of me for attacking Zindaras when Capricious and Rotten Snitch were the 'main targets' of the day.

Yes, I Thought Capricious was town, but it would be stupid of me to assume I know enough about Capricious to be able ot confirm he is town and to give up the only chance I, as town, had of getting the ability to kill scum just because I Wasn't sure that someone was scum. Plus, he was self voting.

You can't help focus attention on a player and then at the last moment turn around and say "People settled for a mislynch" when it's on the player you were trying to help get more and more suspicion on.

Vote stands.

[Skruffs]

Oooh, Skruffs is on the defense when there was no attack. Why so jumpy?

I was asserting my position; could you point out where (yesterday) you objected to it, as compared to today, when you see fit to?

Y, like Mizzy yesterday, is looking for 'proof' of scumminess before willingness to vote, which is at best lazy or at worst cop-fishing. I'm not saying votes should be cast willy nilly but to be against the thought of being suspicious of someone is anti-town; everyone needs to scrutinize everyone to really come up with answers they can believe in; otherwise he is asking for hte 'highest bidder' to lead (or more likely, MISLEAD) him without being responsible for it. Scum tell.

Fos : Y

Yos seems to be subtly goading Mizzy, which I really don't like. I've been mistrustful of Yos ever sinec Open 14, though, so I'm hyper sensitive to his playstyle, even if I can't really understand it.

Rotten Snitch: What are you getting at? I've been in many games with Zindaras, as town or as scum or as both on either side. I said that he is playing the way he plays as scum AND that he's not playing the way he plays as town. Mizzy attacked me for 'baseless meta' for it, which I take as her saying that my opinions are useless. My experience with several of hte players in the game amount to nothing; that's fine. But she also went through and said that she thought I was anti-town town day one; which, again, is A) discrediting me, B) metaing, and C) building brownie points for herself by agreeing with 'her attackers' which, again, goes back towards discrediting me.

I'm not sure what townies are supposed to use, day 1, to figure things out. You don' thave a voting history, you don't have any confirmed dead players (Strappado won't count, because she never actually got to speak with anyone) and you don't have any extra game knowledge. So bringing up metas, I think, is a perfectly good way to start day one, as I said, day one, and was attacked for by the same person who wantsed to keep the game in the 'random voting stage' - ie she wanted to waste time in a KNOWN TWO WEEK DEADLINE and, well, etc, etc, etc.

As for what we know, yes, now we know that Capricious (and Elmo) are town, butm, ROTTEN SNITCH, did you know this yesterday? Knowing that, have you gone back to see who first started the attack on him? WAs it because (hmm) Zindaras and Mizzy focused on him in the beginning of the day, and after Mizzy intentionally corralled people onto focusing on him, they both abandoned ship near deadline so as to look better? Do you not see that?

[Skruffs]

Capricious and Elmo being down DO NO DETRACT from my arguments that the scum are Mizzy and/or Zindaras! IF he had been scum, I would have recalibrated.

[Skruffs]

I said it already, but I'll say it again: Skruffs, I have no idea what connection you're seeing between Zindy and Mizzy, besides the fact that they're both playing in this game. Again, I think you're making up whatever you can to put suspicion onto people.

The alternative is to make jokes, be irreverent, and... what? Not try to be suspicious of people? Let other people be suspicious and coast along until the end for a mafia victory? Is that what you are doing?

[Skruffs]

I think it was because all attempts I had to encourage discussion towards other people were backhanded into the corner and called the red-headed step child.

You yourself

took the charge in trying to stop me from branching the conversation away from Capricious, before deadline.

What should we do, then, next deadline? Just let it happen?

[Skruffs]

Oh for heaven's sake, this is why I hate meta. It's clouding a perfectly good game, and no matter how you look at it, clouding the game is only good for scum. FoS: Skruffs for not leaving past grudges behind back in the games they belong in,

drawing focus away from the two scum candidates

, and being tunnel-visioned. Zindaras' role/alignment in other games has absolutely no baring on his role/alignment in this one. Get past it.

Capricious: What the hell were those beanpoles you tried to pass off as posts/content? There's a case against you and you're on the lynchlist of at least two people, and that's ALL you can muster? Eesh. And by the way, your opinion that my opinion is false is bullshit.

[Skruffs]

• Rules (you should probably read these)

1. Assuming you don't lynch anyone, a day phase should last two weeks. When the two weeks are up, the game will enter a deadline. In every 24-hour block after the deadline, a majority of the living players must post or the game will go to night. Basically, lynch quickly or keep things active.
   
2. If the game goes to night due to a deadline, there won't be a lynch. Someone has to consciously place a hammer.

Mizzy, the game started with a KNOWN two-week deadline, every day.


You can't say we didn't start off with one, because it was public knowledge that we did. You were too busy trying to prevent actual scum hunting from going on to read the rules, I guess.

[Skruffs]

Hey, no. Try again. This is a terrible post. First off, we have plenty of time. People aren't voting because there's good discussion going on right now. Why do you think we're going to no-lynch? Do you not like the discussion that's currently going on? I think it's very useful.

Even if it's me that's on the roasting pit here, I agree with Has. We certainly do not need to wagon right now and we are not in danger as long as people pay attention and stay active, yes? More information is better.

We still need >50% of all players posting once per 24 hours in order to avoid no-lynching. You shouldn't be defending that kind of situiation, considering how irate you are about the desperation-fueled deadline lynch yesterday.

[Skruffs]

Zindaras - you can post more rather than just endlessly repeat yourself while deadline creeps up. Even thought he rest of hte game is moving on, you want me to talk about who you quoted in another game, presumably as some way to detract from the allegations I'm making about you in this game. Why?

510 is directed towards yos and eldarad, do youw ant me to respond to that too?

Are you hiding behind waiting for other people to respond to avoid contributing and/.or actually scumhunting yourself?

[Skruffs]

All you do is say my rhetoric is rubbish, then say you are waiting for me to reply before you are going to continue playing the game. I'm not being holier-than-thou. You're playing like Zindie scum, and I got criticized for saying that. You pretty obviously have spent almost every single post in this game belittling or reprimanding me, and now you can only say that I'm holier than thou.

Whatever. If I remember correctly, you waited a day or two after deadline before you started contributing. Do you intend to disappear when this deadline hits, too? It gets significantly easier for town to wind up with a no-lynch with every higher ratio of scum to town.

There's no proof of there being any power roles, and I'm not saying there should be. I am putting everything I see out there, I think I make some good points - you completely ignored everything I've said about/to Mizzy since the whole "group of scum through ignorance" thing

You've just made it pretty clear that you would rather ignore actual casess and focus on earlier cases that you know nobody cares about anyways, and yet I'm the one who's ridiculous for seeing hte connection between the two.


What do you think abuot Mizzy's following you onto Capricious, pushing hte capricious wagon, pushing me away from attakcing you and trying to get me to focus on capricious, then, like you, jumping offf shortly before deadline, hoping off the wagon and then criticizing the people on it?

Why doesn't Mizzy's post-capricious stance on teh capricious wagon strike you as 'holier - than - thou"?

[Skruffs]

Yes!!! They started questioning each other!!!!!

[Skruffs]

Y: Skruffs is probably going to say that now he has accused us, we're quaking with fear and have decided to distance.

That's my guess too, but I wanted to hear what he has to say. A response like that is complete WIFOM. I wanted to see if he has something better to say.

Mizzy, you seem to overreact too much (Not necessarily scummy, but overreacting).

Actually, no. I made it clear that I didn't like how they cleared each other, pretty much, day one. They avoided the point by attacking me instead, which only makes me more suspicious. Now one of htem has looked at each other, at least as a possibility, which greatly allieves my suspicion of them.

That's why I was so happy in my last post when I noted it.

I'm kind of confused by your snide comments, though, Y. You seem to be insinuating that you were anticipating a WIFOMy response to your question. If you expected it, then asking it int eh first place, apparently, was designed to make me look bad.

Were you baiting me?

[Skruffs]

Ooooh suuuure, how

convenient

.... her baby just HAPPENS to come right at DEADLINE.... which means she won't be posting....

Just kidding. I'm not THAT much of an asshole. But it does mean we should focus on lynching, NOW, instead of no lynching.


also: Zindaras - You haven't proven anything, not to me. The patterns in your behavior I picked up on myself, which is my own opinion, isn't going to be 'proven wrong' by you saying that it's not an accurate pattern. I have to see that myself. It has nothing to do with ignoring you. IF a good detective said "Well, I'm pretty sure it's this guy, but he says it's not him, so I guess it's not him", instead of looking deeper himself and figuring it out himself, then he's not really a good detective.

I'm going to stop attacking you, so that you can actually scum hunt yourself instead of having defensive posts to hide behind. ^.^

[Skruffs]

Wow, simultaneous attacks, from Y and Zindaras.

So was it WIFOM, Y?

Zindaras: So is it a completely Black and White situation? Either I believe you or I don't? And in either case you are innocent and I am scum?

[Skruffs]

Y:

When did I say I was convinced? Are you trying to force a black-and-white viewpoint on me about something that I can't possibly know about until the mod confirms it?

[Skruffs]

The reason I ask is because you've asked for PROOF before, as has Mizzy, and I don't like it when people demand proof from townies. Absolute proof is impossible without outside information,w hich only scum and power roles have in this game. The information we do have, as town, is derived from the behaviors, both intentional (voting) and unintentional (responses towards each other)

As ridiculous as my technique seems to be for some people (Zindaras is really hardballing me in this game for it) IT's still a technique that *I* use to figure out what is going on. People who spend the majority of their posts criticizing other people's tactics instead of actually investigating themselves, like it seems (At this moment, anyways, and that is heavily based on your recent attitutdes towards me and the game in general) you are doing, tend to eb scum, in my opinion, because the whole point of criticizing people rather than investigating people is to get people to attack each other - and not you.
**************
Thank you for confirming that you did ask a question that you were hoping I would respond to in a WIFOMy way, just so that you would have a believable reason to push a lynch on me.

Unvote, Vote Y

[Skruffs]

Since they know each other in RL (That's what I understood), I wouldn't rule out the possibility of one of them being scum, knowing the other, making him do stupid, scummy, stuff.

Also for the record
Shortly after I realized me and RS were both in this game together, I moved out of state so that there could be no RL interactiosn that might taint the nature of my interactions with him. Anything for an Ether game.

Secondly, there might be a bit of a wall up between me and him, especially in the beginning of the game, because I didn't want RL to get in the way of hte game. So if there seems to be distancing or a lack of interaction between me and him, on my end anyways, it's because of that. I was conciously trying not to 'read' him the way I do in real life, because there are huge disparities between how you play mafia in real life vs on here. Now that I'm not in that state any more, I don' thave an issue interacting with him.

[Skruffs]

Zindaras makes pancakes.

[Skruffs]

I was mafia in a game where we didn't know there was day talk. Well I didn't, my partners did but NEVER GOT IN CONTACT With me because they were too lazy.

Andycac - why does his post have to relate to mine?

Zindaras - why were you attacking Andycaca for attacking the people who were not voting (And thus trying to get a no lynch) at the end of yesterday?

[Skruffs]

I am fully aware of what quotations mean, Y.

I am questioning how you came to the conclusion, insinuation or otherwise, that I am "convinced" that they are not scum. I said my suspicions of them for clearing each other day one were allieved. That doesn't mean a dang thing about their alignment.

[Skruffs]

Deadline started Saturday at 7:00PM (by my references, and all references will be by my references, the actual times do not matter as much as the placement of the timings)

Andycac said he was rereading and would post in a few hours, shortly before deadline. He hasn't since then, except to say that Daytalking isn't all that great.

eldarad also said he would post something intelligent in the next 24 hours, but didn't.

Mizzy is excused from not contributing because she is involved in the miracle of life, and I hope her baby comes/came out healthy and furry.

Rotten snitch did not post after deadline started until this morning, adn then posted four times.

hasdgfas - Has posted three of hte four days we've been in deadline, helping to ensure that we do not no-lynch.

Y - He has posted almost every day since deadline starts, which helps to ensure that we do not no-lynch

Yosarian2 - posted every day since deadline (except today) - which helps to ensure that we do not no-lynch

Zindaras - Posted every day (Except today) - which helps to ensure that we do not no-lynch

Now, with 9 players, we need 5/day to post to avoid no lynch, and with mizzy gone for the duration, that means we need 5/8. IF there is a 3 person mafia, and missy is not in it, and they decide not to all post for one day, that means every other pro-town player MUST vote.

I'm going to look and see who is posting in other games but not here. Even "Hi." posts like cow's counts, so there's no reason not to hop in and say hi. (Next post plz)

[Skruffs]

Okay, simulpost, andycac has posted twice today.

[Skruffs]

Nah, whatever. The whole point of the last post was really to get people angry at Zindaras for ignoring the game, but I have other htings to do other than antagonize him more.

[Skruffs]

Interesting. So either you are intentionally following the game and not posting, and only posted because I called you out on it, or, you aren't, and someone told you about my post and you hurried on over to discredit the post.

So which of your scum buddies told you about my post? The only other player who's SN I know that is online is Yosarian2.


How many of your posts are bascially saying that I suck, that you don't like me, that you recruited me, that I am alive and so mst be scum, that I don't make sense, that my logic is flawed, etc - and how many of them are actually positing original views on the game? And would you like to answer my question from before?



Also: Y:

Since they know each other in RL (That's what I understood), I wouldn't rule out the possibility of one of them being scum, knowing the other, making him do stupid, scummy, stuff.

Why does this not apply to Zindaras and me, as well? Would you say that Zindaras is not baiting me, like you have admitted to doing, into saying stupid stuff that he can discredit later on without putting himself at risk?

[Skruffs]

But you were keeping up conversations about warhammer, the dutch mafia, the "Favorite Fictional Character Tournament". You posted to all of those three times each before you posted here to refute that you were able to post whenever you wanted.

So if you can multitask with all of those, why can't you add in a "Deadline Extension" post?

This, coupled with not voting during a good part of hte deadline day one, and also yelling at me for not trying ot push a wagon, at deadline, on someone that you spent the entire bulk of hte day trying toridicule me for thinking was scum in the first place (instead of voting for a townie), when you weren't voting anyone, suggests to me that YOUR intentions are to go for the no-lynch today.

I'm glad Yos posted, but it was bad timing on his part.

[Skruffs]

Zindaras: So is it a completely Black and White situation? Either I believe you or I don't? And in either case you are innocent and I am scum?

I'm flat-out innocent, and the jury is still out on you. I would've voted you if it wasn't.

This is in reference to this:

That's bullshit. Either you believe me, in which case I've proven enough, or you don't, in which case I'm scum for it and you need to continue your crusade. You're backing out.

You don't respond to my posts because, well, I've proven all your arguments to be crap and you have nothing to say anymore, and you're just bluffing and trying to make yourself look like you've still got a case.

You had previously blanket statemented saying that hte two of you didn't treat each other as cleared day one, even though, in my perspective, you did. You both tried to refute my statements, not by proving me wrong by scrutinizing each other, but instead by attacking the logic I used to build the case. Then you said you 'proved' you weren't doing that - when all you really did was criticize the way I built a case against you. Different things.
If you are trying to say that you didn't attack me (because you used one sentence to respond to an entire paragraph of allegations, so I don't know which or all of them you were responding to), that's not true. You both focused on my 'lack of logic' a good deal through the game, which I think is a scum tell. Zindaras, you and me have played in quite a few games. You know how I play. You, of everyone here, should know that I have a pattern that I Follow to reach my own conclusions. You know that I stir up shit and that sometimes the shit I stir up winds up getting scum lynched.

So for you to spend so much time, both day one, and day two, heckling and criticizing me, to the point of only posting about me for several days and NOT other people - that, to me, is (yet another) scum tell. *YOU* know better. You even CLAIM to know better. But instead you say things like "SKruffs makes me a sad kitty." What is the point of saying "SKruffs makes me a sad kitty"? IT keeps my attention focused on you, first of all, it adds nothing to the game, and it gives you ammunition, if I go off on it, to further discredit me.

And let's be honest here, you seem to have a vested interest in discreditting me. RAther than formulating your own cases, you have spent nearly every post criticizing mine. WHich is, I think, a scum tell. MAYBE it's not a scum tell to try to keep the game focused on the player that doesn't make any sense - it keeps pepole from analyzing each other - which btw is what the nonsensical skruffs is acussing you of ttrying ot do in the first place.

Moving on...

Anything between "believe" and "not believe" still requires explanation. You choose to ignore a

very

significant line of posts. You can agree, you can not agree, you can even do something in between,

but a response is required

. At the very least because I've asked you direct questions.

I don't know if you are referring to the 'We disproved you so nyah" post or the very post you are acussing me of not responding you into, but I think I've responded aptly to all of your posts, Zindaras. Please show me where I didn't.

The reason I ask is because you've asked for PROOF before, as has Mizzy, and I don't like it when people demand proof from townies. Absolute proof is impossible without outside information,w hich only scum and power roles have in this game. The information we do have, as town, is derived from the behaviors, both intentional (voting) and unintentional (responses towards each other)

Bullcrap. At no point have you been asked to provide absolute proof. We have simply requested that you explain on what basis you are making the attacks.

Doesn't PROOF = Factual evidence? What kind of proof are you looking for that does not involve some sort of role claim?
And when did I not explain the basis? I am pretty sure I've been under a shit fire for having insane, nonsensical basises behind my allegations at every step of the way? Apparently, those were just point-blank accusations against me and now I never even had my basis for suspicions lined out in the first place?
WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY HERE?

Again.

I. Have. Asked. You. A. Direct. Question. Pertaining. To. This.

Respond. Or. I. Will. Vote. You.

Please.
Repeat.
The.
Question.

Do I have to do it syllable-wise next time, or has this finally gotten through your cement skull?

S TEH STEWPID ONE

As ridiculous as my technique seems to be for some people (Zindaras is really hardballing me in this game for it) IT's still a technique that *I* use to figure out what is going on.

I am on your case because you're pulling crap from thin air rather than building a normal case. I'm on your case because you use scum methods. I'm on your case because you're not playing like I'm used to you playing.

How are you used to me playing?
Where am I supposed to be pulling "crap" from? My ass? Wouldn't that have been a much better metaphor to be using, Zindaras?
When you have nothing to start off with, you start by MAKING something happen, and then you go from there.
Unlike Mizzy, who wanted to keep the game in random stage as long into a two-week deadline as was possible (and yes, I've brough tt his up before and it has been responded to, I just can't help but notice that you would rather attack the person who is trying to help rathe rhtan the person who doens't want ANYONE to help).

Zindaras: Can you please show me an example of building a good case on someone day one or day two? You can refer me to another game, if you want, one that has already ended. Just show me how someone started off day one with an awesome case that led directly to scum being lynched, and then I will say, "OKay, this is what Zindaras and MIzzy and Y are looking from me, this is why they are being rude to me and making me want to not even sign into mafiascum, because my cases are not up to par with this case."

IF you can't do that, EASILY, because apparently it's a very easy thing you are bruntly asking from me, then, back off and start making your own oipoinions rather than trying to inflame an easy target to the point that you think you can get an easy lynch on them.
You're reminding me of Battle Mage, in pretty much every game he was scum in.

Mizzy - Zindy - Skruffs if there was Day talk going on it would be with more active players to be completely effective I think. These three have been the most talkative throughout the whole game.

So, because daytalk would have the most use for a Zin-Miz-Skruffs group, they're scum?

What's next? Yosarian is scum because he's the most cunning manipulator?

What is the point of this? You're ridiculing another player and offering no suggestions of your own.

YOU ARE BEING AN ASSWAD, ZINDARAS.

The correct response, the HELPFUL response, would be,
"Actually Rotten SNitch, I believe that it is more likely that there is one or two scum players that are communicating with one vocal player, in order to get all their opinions out. Hopefully that is the case, and when that vocal player is outed, they will be forced to be more vocal themselves - leading to a distinctive change in their posting behavior!"

Of course, that would be helpful, and you're focusing on being smug. So. Can't hold that against you.

Zindaras - why were you attacking Andycaca for attacking the people who were not voting (And thus trying to get a no lynch) at the end of yesterday?

Where? Quote or link.

With pleasure:

I've already posted today. So it's still 4/6.

3 Unvote (Andycyca, Mizzy, Rotten Snitch)

I want all three of the people quoted above answer the following:

1) Why aren't you voting for anyone?
2) Why are you opposed to a Capricious lynch?
3) How do you envisage this day ending?
4) How are you contributing to that?

And to add to the whole ultimatum vibe of this post, I'm not posting again in-thread Today until at least one of those people have answered all four questions.

If you want a Capri-lynch so badly, why are you focusing on these three people? Except for question 1, all of these questions could be asked of the others.

My bad, I apologize, I remembered it being Andycaca, but it was eldarad. That wasn't an intentional mistake, obviously, because it's just going to give you a way to say "Skruffs is teh stupid" and avoid the question.

Question though: Who's wagon were you pushing at deadline, since you didn't want Capricious lynched? Were you pushing a wagon?

So which of your scum buddies told you about my post? The only other player who's SN I know that is online is Yosarian2.

Oh, and yeah, after that, we sat down with the rest of our scumteam, consisting of Andycyca, Y and Mizzy, and played a nice game of Scrabble.

Unfortunately, Y was a bad loser, so he killed Mizzy after she won, which is why she's now gone (I hacked her account and came up with some lame excuse about labour so nobody would suspect us).

I'm sorry, buddies, but Skruffs's expert interrogation has made me crack under the mounting pressure.

Haha, oh, you're so funny Zindaras. ^.^

How many of your posts are bascially saying that I suck, that you don't like me, that you recruited me, that I am alive and so mst be scum, that I don't make sense, that my logic is flawed, etc - and how many of them are actually positing original views on the game? And would you like to answer my question from before?

Yeah, and now that we're done referring to the random phase, let's start discussing the game. Oh, wait, you don't want to do that. You've been on my ass for ages, and the moment that I actually take the time to rebut your case, you drop everything. Why? You're scared. You're pooping your pants because you know that any further forays into Piss-Zindie-off-land is going to land you my vote. And, quite frankly, there is

no

reason for a Townie to behave in that way.

I've been playing hte game sinec day one, Zindaras. I , as town, don't believe in random stages. I think it's just another thing that scum can hide behind to waste time and use to get a feel for the various town roles. While you were busy heckling me in random stage, I was looking at the game, posting cases, and taking shit from, well, now over half of the game players. I've got you saying I was town, day one, and now voting me. I got Mizzy saying I was probably town day one - but I wouldn't be surprised if she started voting me, too. She's not, yet, so I can't saying anything, but I won't be surprised. I have the growing angst of knowing that after I am dead, just like in other games where I might have had a good lead or two, everything I Said will be ignored and town will continue to botch things up.


But yeah, I'm glad you enjoyed your random stage. Apparently random stage for you, extended until Monday:

Skruffs makes me a sad kitty.

Well, when you are ready to join the grown ups, and, I dunno, get your feet dirty by actually scum hunting rather than spending your time pretending to be a rock star and just mocking everyone else, feel free to let me know.

[Skruffs]

I am questioning how you came to the conclusion, insinuation or otherwise, that I am "convinced" that they are not scum. I said my suspicions of them for clearing each other day one were allieved. That doesn't mean a dang thing about their alignment.

You were saying that you suspect Zindy and Mizzy for buddying up with each other, so when you said you weren't thinking so any more, I were under the impression they no longer look scummy to you. Was there any other accusation against any of them that wasn't "allieved"?

I said that Zindaras at least paying lip service to the idea that they really weren't buddying up to each other - he asked her a single question, after all - greatly relieved my suspicions of the fact that before then, they were basically day one kersnoggling with each other. You're really pushing this conclusion, trying to get me to say something, and I am not sure what it is.

Why are you so invested in figuring out what I Think of Mizzy/Zindaras?

Why does this not apply to Zindaras and me, as well? Would you say that Zindaras is not baiting me, like you have admitted to doing, into saying stupid stuff that he can discredit later on without putting himself at risk?

Unless I missed it, you and Zindaras don't really know each other. I know that if a friend of mine was playing this game, I would know how to annoy him, make him respond in specific ways or could foresee his reactions. That doesn't apply in this case.

Yes, it does. You've missed a lot, apparently, because, well, as was repeatedly said in many games, me and Zindaras get a good feel for each other. I've said he's playing like Zindaras scum, he's said I'm playing like SKkruffs town. And now he's voting me, again. So, please reformat that answer with the new knowledge and answer the questoin again:

Why does this not apply to Zindaras and me, as well? Would you say that Zindaras is not baiting me, like you have admitted to doing?

Furthermore, when did I admit I was baiting you?

Sure:

I anticipated a WIFOM response, but I wanted to hear what you say. I actually do try to hear what people have to say before I lynch them.

You said you wanted a WIFOM response from me so you asked a question that you would yhope I would get a WIFOMy answer to. Apparently, if I had answered WIFOMy, the bait would have worked, the trap would have been sprung, and I Would be being voted by you right now. You aren't voting me, so apparently I didn't take the bait.

For the record, most of your attacks on me throughout the entire game is because they are 'baseless' and/or you can't see the reasoning for them. You said that I Am weird/irrelevant but that I was also flying under the radar and trying to set up future lynches. You don't see the connection between my logic and reality, but at least you are acknowledging that my logic is my own; that I'm at least speaking my own mind, which is something that some players, and some roles (scum), like to avoid.

I never said such a thing. Saying that once you got them talking we might get new info, or that they might slip up, could be a good answer which wouldn't be neither WIFOM, nor would make you look like an idiot. You're getting my posts out of their context and than use them as if they were complete proof for your absurd accusations.

What is your point here: IF you already knew the answer to your question, then you had no reason to ask it of me, except maybe to bait me.

Right?

What I mean is, you are saying I am taking your posts out of their context; however, your 'context' is that you are trying to get me lynched, in a subtle matter. You've already admitted that. You asked a question hoping I would answer in a way that would allow you to guiltlessly place a vote on me. I don't think I am taking your post out of context in saying that. I Think, what you mean by 'taking out of context', is that I am reading between the lines of what you are actually saying, and, what I am seeing is my perspective of WHY you are saying it.

[Skruffs]

Doesn't PROOF = Factual evidence? What kind of proof are you looking for that does not involve some sort of role claim?

This was a responce to this:

Bullcrap. At no point have you been asked to provide absolute proof.

Care to explain?

What level of PROOF does not involve EVIDENCE?
I don' tknow how else to rephrase the question.

Can you please show me an example of building a good case on someone day one or day two? You can refer me to another game, if you want, one that has already ended. Just show me how someone started off day one with an awesome case that led directly to scum being lynched, and then I will say, "OKay, this is what Zindaras and MIzzy and Y are looking from me, this is why they are being rude to me and making me want to not even sign into mafiascum, because my cases are not up to par with this case."

You want an example? Here's one. Don't say it can't be done. Buy the way, he was lynched for the same thing I'm accusing you - Making accusation that are not really related to game and for misrepresenting other people's cases.

From what I see, the wagon on Ryan started because of someone starting a wagon on someone else. This involved mutliple players interacting with each other, and with Ryan, which began to fritter away at Ryan's defenses, until people started paying attention to him. I do not see anywhere in there where one person started a direct case against him - but I didn't read all the way through. What I am advocating is that players who do not interact with each other, wether intentionally or not, might have a reason not to. I am advocating hte very style of play that (appears) to be led to Ryan being lynched day one. The case that was built on him was built due to him and other players interacting. There was no "proof" levelled against him, as far as I can tell. Thank you for helping to prove my point.

Why are you so invested in figuring out what I Think of Mizzy/Zindaras?

Why? Because I see no case in your biggest accusation of the two. I think you're trying to accuse two people without real reason. Since getting more townies lynched is good for mafia, and that is what I thing you're trying to do, I'm really invested in figuring out what you think of Mizzy/Zindaras.

Well,

thank you for clearing Mizzy and Zindaras

. I do not have the information that you have that the two of them are cleared. I also did not see why the two of them would so early on make such risky moves as to defend each other as pro town on day one, as town. A lack of suspicion towards each other, in my eyes, day one, is a telling sign.
The other thing you forgot to mention, Y, is that townies WANT to lynch Mafia. Only there's this whole "uninformed majority" thing, wherein the townies do not know who each other are. So they try to figure out who scum are.

Tell me why you think Mizzy/Zindaras are townies enough to be suspicious of me for being suspicious of them.

Yes, it does. You've missed a lot, apparently, because, well, as was repeatedly said in many games, me and Zindaras get a good feel for each other. I've said he's playing like Zindaras scum, he's said I'm playing like SKkruffs town. And now he's voting me, again.

And I should know it how? I wasn't in those games and haven't read them. I'm not really following you around, you know.

But you went to the trouble to make the assumption of the contrary, despite the REPEATED in game acknowledgments from both me AND Zindaras that we have played in multiple games. Either you missed all of those posts - and Zindaras's big post about every single game that me and him have been in, including games where he died before I even replaced in was hard to miss - or you somehow benefited by pretending that they don't exist.

Which is it? Are you ignorant or are you intentionally misleading?

So, please reformat that answer with the new knowledge and answer the questoin again:

Why does this not apply to Zindaras and me, as well? Would you say that Zindaras is not baiting me, like you have admitted to doing?

Since that question is based on a comment made with lacking information, now that it is known, the question is irrelevant (And so you won't completely make a mess of this post: What I mean is that I would not ignore the connection between you two if I knew about it).

So the answer to your question is what: You seem to be intentionally avoiding the question now that the situation isn't what you thought it was.

If I am reading it correctly, you are implying that it is irrelevant if Zindaras is baiting me or not. Why?

Why does it not matter that both you and Zindaras might be baiting me in the attempts to get a lynch?

If I am 'not making sense' with my translation of your backtracking on the answer, please respond in a way that makes your position known in regards to Zindaras and Mizzy. Since you are interested in knowing what I feel about them, I think it is unusual that you are intentionally trying not to respond to what Zindaras thinks of me. And it's hard for me to look at your convulted non-answer and say that you are not backtracking, but because I have a history of being weird and irrelevant, I Am giving you the chance to better explain yourself.

I anticipated a WIFOM response, but I wanted to hear what you say. I actually do try to hear what people have to say before I lynch them.

You said you wanted a WIFOM response from me so you asked a question that you would yhope I would get a WIFOMy answer to. Apparently, if I had answered WIFOMy, the bait would have worked, the trap would have been sprung, and I Would be being voted by you right now. You aren't voting me, so apparently I didn't take the bait.

I don't know where you're from, but even though I'm not an English speaker by birth, I do know the difference between "Wanting" and "Anticipating".
While the first means "I wish such would happen", the second one means "According to my knowledge, this is the most probable option".
While I said that I thought you would answer in a WIFOM way, I wanted to give you the chance not to (I usually don't accuse people based on my assumptions on what they're going to do, but on their doings). You decided to make it look like I was trying to get you to make a mistake.
And for the record, I've been voting you from page 25 (Post# 623), before this absurd "Baiting" accusation.

Expecting/Wanting: Whatever. You were hoping I would give a response that you could lynch me on. You have given me no reason to think that the question you asked was in any way designed to help make me look more town; you asked a question that you ANTICIPATED I would answer in a way that you could feel justified lynching me for. You are not 'investigating', you are attempting to 'condemn'.

For the record, most of your attacks on me throughout the entire game is because they are 'baseless' and/or you can't see the reasoning for them. You said that I Am weird/irrelevant but that I was also flying under the radar and trying to set up future lynches. You don't see the connection between my logic and reality, but at least you are acknowledging that my logic is my own; that I'm at least speaking my own mind, which is something that some players, and some roles (scum), like to avoid.

Having your own logic says nothing to me. I use my own logic as town or scum alike. Using your own logic, or following other people depends mostly on the player, not the role.

But apparently it does, because you seem to be trying to judge my logic and use it as a reason to vote me. Or are you not trying to do that?
Are you voting me for following someone else?
Are you accusing me of not using my own logic to come to conclusions about people? If so, and as scum, wouldn't it be better to follow other people rather than drawing so much attention to myself? I know that's a WIFOM question to ask, but you seem to be trying to lynch me for being unhelpful town, rather than for being scum, and I am going to make sure that your reasons are out in the open for everyone to see.

IF you already knew the answer to your question, then you had no reason to ask it of me, except maybe to bait me.

Here's what you don't get:

I did not know the answer!

I could guess what it'll be, but knowing? Psychic course is next semester. I would not ask a question, unless I really want to see the answer.
And for you to really leave it alone, if I wanted to bait you, the question would be "So now you'll say they're attacking each other because of your accusations, right?". Then I could call it WIFOM, no matter what's your answer.

However, what I am saying is not that you didn't know the answer, it was that you were asking a question that you did not care what the answer was; you expected/anticipated that my response would be WIFOMy, which would allow you to lynch me. You said so yourself. Now that you have seen the answer, and it was not what you expected, you have been struggling to find a way to ignore it to continue thinking the same way about me. So what was the point of the question?

What I mean is, you are saying I am taking your posts out of their context

Right. And there's at least one example in your last post (As noted in this post).

I'll show you:

however, your 'context' is that you are trying to get me lynched,

in a subtle matter

(I'm trying to get you lynched in a completely blunt way)

.

You've already admitted that

(Admitted, yes. What you're referring to? No)

.

You asked a question hoping I would answer in a way that would allow you to guiltlessly place a vote on me

(I proved it wrong, again, in this post)

.

I'll ask you again: Please try to actually understand what I'm saying before you make up cases. At least you won't blow your cover out.

This quote does not mean anything unless you actually go through and show how I took you out of context. Otherwise, I could take any part of your statements and say you are taking me out of context, too.

You said you wanted a WIFOM response from me before you lynched me.

You were voting me before you asked the questoin, and despite my response being not what you expected, you are still voting me. How am I taking what you said out of context, in regards to how what you have said relays to what your actions and what else you have said are?

You *ARE* trying to lynch me, you are using null-tells for your reason, and you are trying to bait me so that when I turn up town, you will have a defense to fall back on.

You have said that Scum tries to get townies lynched, and that I am trying to get Mizzy and Zindaras lynched, and so I must be scum.
But there is no reason for YOU to think that they are townies, unless, of coures, you are scum, which is the reason I was attacking Mizzy and Zindaras day one: for treating each other like townies.

Zindaras started off the game being an ass to me and he will continue to be until I am dead. He knows I am town, has said so, but he is trying to find a way to get me lynched anyways. When I am lynched and turn up town, I would heartily recommend, and I know this won't happen because Zindaras has spent so much time in this game just trying to discredit me, that Zindaras is lynched as well. I know that because everyone loves Zindaras, that trying to get him lynched, post deadline, is going to only hurt my reputation with the player group. To be honest, this game is reminding me a GOOD DEAL of Calvin & Hobbes, and I'm not going to mind when I get lynched or nightkilled.

Second place would be Y. I really don't like the backtracking he is trying to do in regards to Zindaras, as explained earlier.


I didn't like Andycaca yesterday, between him and Capricious, but to be honest I have been too focussed on Mizzy, Zindaras, and Y to really spend any energy on looking at the Yosarian/Rotten Snitch thing or anyone else.

Sorry.

[Skruffs]

Also: Again, I think Rotten Snitch was highlighted in my scum book as being potentially scum with strappado7's death int he beginning of the game: he and her know each other and he may have felt guilty or unable to lie to her in meatworld and so knocked her off, early.

If she was a jailkeeper,t hough, she probably would have targetted him or me, so if RS is scum, he probably got a buddy to target her.

This is also compounded, as I explained earlier, by the discussion that was had in scum chat about who the two of them were, so her death could have been used to frame RS. I listed way in the beginning of the game who I thought would have known about that and why.

Yes, this entire post is based on Meta and WIFOM. I'm not telling anyone to take it seriously, it is my own information about stuff that may have affected the game. It's out there, do whatever you want with it.

[Skruffs]

The fact that she was possibly blocking me proves I had nothing to do with her death.

Uhm, no. For one, you could simply not have been the wolf killing her. For two, we wouldn't know that unless we were absolutely sure that she blocked you. Just the possibility that you may not have killed her doesn't prove that you didn't kill her.

Did I miss where we know for sure what the Gaoler did and whether or not they were pro-town?

Not to be snide, but I've been bandied abou for questioning wether or not there was werewolves. I do'nt recall you questioning the proof that there was a werewolf or not.

I googled gaoler and it's an old celtic term (or something) for JailKeeper: While we don't know what she did, I am assuming that that is what strappado was, and that is what she did. She was not revealed to be a werewolf, and there's only been one kill per night: IS there another scum group we need to be worrying about, Mizzy?


RS: There was no way you could have known she was a power role unless she told you in RL, or unless yous omehow got pregame information as part of your role. That she wound up in front of your door DOES suggest that she was a gift for you, rather than your own murder victim, but it does not clear you. I would say that it probably DOES unintentionally suggest you were not the murderer of her, though, or that in fact you may be town, but that's outguessing the mod so I won't do it.

Secondly: I Am not inferring that you killed strap any more than I Am inferring that anyone else who knew about you and her knowing each other would have killed her knowing that it would lead me to you. I am putting that information out there so that it can be adressed and discarded.

I responded, I Think, concisely to Zindaras, and he ignored me. Odd, that, considering in his last post he said I was going to 'run away' because I had nothing to say against him. Also odd that he is saying he wil vote me if I Do'nt respond to his questions, and I Asked what questions he means, and he just... forgot about them.

Andycaca: that he's voted me for a while now, does that mean that his vote is more valid than it was when he first put it on? How long has Zindaras been voting me? How long have I been voting other players? why does none of that matter in your analysis?


Yos: This is not a defense of RS, but in meatworld, he intentionally pisses people off to get reactions. I don't know if that translates to here or not. I'm kind of hoping one of me or him gets NK'd or lynched soon so that I am not put in a situation where I have to try and meta him with outside information to make a decision about him. That's it, out and honestly.

Secondly: You seem to be implying, at least, that you think it's possible me and Mizzy are both town. IS this based on analysis of me in this game or because of meta of how I act in other games, or am I going too far in saying that you think I Am town?



I am pretty sure Y and Zindaras are just going to sit on their votes on me and wait for others to reluctantly jump on. It worked yesterday, after all.

Zindaras has done his active stuff and now he's going to lay low and try to work on other people that he's town so htat they will follow him

Night all!

[Skruffs]

Again, I wasn't meaning ot be rude. You have priorities Mizzy and those priorities should be the ones with fingers and toes not townies and wolves. Congrats on your healthy return, wether you are scum or not.

Okay Yos, thanks. I just wanted to hear it.

I could be wrong about the jailkeeper being her role, but it is what made the most sense.

Eldarad

- I really haven't been reading much of you. Did you vote mizzy because of stuff I said or did you have your own reasoning?

[Skruffs]

No, the information was all from the beginning of day one and through there. The only thing you missed was Zindaras throwing a hissy fit and Y claiming scum.

[Skruffs]

But you want me to be lynched for fighting you, Zindaras, and Mizzy, blindly?
Interesting.

Can you list the reasons I am the best lynch, other than that the opinions I use do not come up to your expectations of 'a good case'?

[Skruffs]

Andycaca:
Are you insinuating that voting without reason is better than reason without voting?

Am I the only one to notice Capricious was completely forgotten?

I don't know what to make of this Mizzy-RS fight. Each of them writes big posts, but there's very little, if any, new info.

One of the things you seem to go after, Y, is to attack players for not contributing enough. You point it out exclusively, but again, I do not see you providing analysis of your own that is not based off of other people's analysis. IE you discuss other people's opinions, but you do not bring opinions of your own.


Yesterday, you were voting me, but then switched to Capricious to ensure a lynch. Today, you are voting me, and I am guessing I will eventually be the lynch.

So after you've have lynched me, who are you going to go after next? Give two situations, one where I am town, and one where I am scum. You seem to be hedging your bets, keeping your 'I think this person is scum" limited to one person at a time throughout the entire game.

Inregards to you 'not knowing' about me and Zindaras playing in previous games:

I don't have much time, so it'll be short. I hope I'll be able to elaborate later.

Skruffs is using meta-game info, but using only games they both played together. Although I understand that you can't know him without playing with him, you also can't discard all the games you didn't play together.

It seems like you're pushing a move that can't really be proven, especially if you have no concrete info from this present game.

You did the same with RS: You have accusations and theories, but none has any real connection to the game.

Vote Skruffs.

Earlier in the game you used my metaing of him based on games we played in as a reason to vote me. So which is it? Iz Zindaras not to be held accountable and I should be voted because we didn't play in games, or am I irreseponsible for using games we played in as a reason to meta Zindaras?

You seem to pushing attention as far away from Zindaras as possible. You are playing defensively - but ironically you are accusing me of trying to play under the radar, because I am bringing so much attention to myself.


Your play is contradictory, and insidious.

I am pretty sure you are scum. I am voting you. Let it be known, after I am lynched, that my cold dead finger will be pointing accusationally towards Y. I have no doubt that since I am me, and I have a reputation of being senseless and ridiculous, that I am actually *helping* Y-scum by being suspicious of him; all of my thoughts are almost always discarded as soon as I'm sheathed in a body bag, but, it's something I can gloat over, privately, regardless.

[Skruffs]

You being a bad player is your fault. Not mine. I used to be like that, but I realised that the important thing isn't being right, but to kill scum. If you think you're helping scum by accusing them, why are you doing that? Zindaras was suspecting me, and he would've done a much better job attacking me if you didn't interfere. If you know your main suspect will live because of you, why don't you do a favor to the town and remain quiet?

Me being a bad player is YOUR OPINION. Not mine.
If you used to be like 'this', then why are you attacking me for it rather than providing information as to how you got better and became the 'star player' you are today? IT sounds to me that you feel I am an easy target. You don't have to provide why I am scum, you just can say that I don't make sense and thus are trying to get mislynches. If I am lynched and show as town, you still won't be interested in the lines of suspicion of ANY of the players I suggested - instead you will be going after Rotten Snitch, regardless of my alignment.

Lastly: How would Zindaras have done a much better job of attacking you? Even if he had, why is that a good thing, since you are "town"? I don't understand this. IF he's attacking a town player, than does that make him scum? Wouldn't that mena he's pushing a mislynch? Where are you going with that line of thought?

Telling me to shut up and sit down, I'm sorry, that's both incredibly conceited and elitist. I'm a player in the game, too, and I (unlike some players) come up with my own lines of thought and I See where they go. You are a culture, you pick at the weak spots of 'injured players' and feast on their entrails after they've died. You've made no direct attaacks on anyone that has't already been started by anyone else, but you are acusing me of 'flying under the radar' by making direct attacks on players with less than perfect reasoning.

Yeah, vote stays.

And the reason I am suggesting I Am probably going to be lynched is because more people are agreeing that I Am wrong than they are that You are wrong, and are dropping their votes on other wagons. Which means more votes are going to start popping up onto you or mine's wagon, which means that between you and me, I Will probably be lynched. You can pretend you didn't notice that, just like you pretended to forget me and Zindaras had played in games together and then tried to make it a RL thing instead of a game thing. That's cool. But I can see through it.

[Skruffs]

I'm still really iffy on Zindaras' style.

I do'nt know if my attack on Y is OMGUSsy or not. Maybe it is, but that doesn't mean it's not validated. I think his decision to join in on the arguments against me was oppurtunistic, and I feel he's pushing a weak case against me. If it is OMGUSsy, I don' thtink that I should be deiscreditted for that.

As for hte worrying about being lynched thing, I thought there were four votes being cast, and I Thought two people had unvoted. There were actually 5, and eldarad only unvoted, but I am *stiull* pretty sure that at least one other player suggested consolidating votes. I think there are more people in disagreement with me than with any other player. I am aware that my fussing is distracting players (Mizzy, Zindaras, Y) from 'fulfilling their duties' in investigating other people. Poor Zindaras has had hardly a breath for anyone else, and I am sure he is really going to miss the fall back of baiting and harping on SKruffs after I am gone.

So I guess I don't have a very big reason to worry about being lynched, except that I perhaps might be more sensitive to the ebb and flow of suspicion in the game. It seems to me that there is a greater underlying support of lynching me than there is at any other player. And since the game is in deadline, there is going to be a growing and growing risk that we won't lynch anyone at all unless someone is lynched. This gives players more of a reason to put votes on me; I did it myself day one, as did Y and Yosarian2 and probably several others.

Y:
Perhaps I am not the best at stating logical, important cases that others can follow through to finishing. However, I *am* good at provoking responses.

There is absolutely no reason for me to sit down and shut up. If I think someone is scum, it is my responsibility to vocalize as such, express my suspicions, and see what happens. Believe it or not, I can't lynch someone myself. And if I don't say what I see, then there's no way I can get scum lynched myself.

That's where everyone else comes in. I jump in to the fray and start poking people; that illicits responses. Do I know if I am poking scum? no. Only scum know who scum are. Well, scum and potentially cops, but that's outside of this discussion. Point is, I don't need to have an awesome, well thought out case, unless I am sure that I have scum in my sights. Five times out of six, I am not sure. I think that someone asking someone else to form a solid, uncrackable case, point blank, every step of the way is more likely to be scum. Trying to get someone lynched for not knowing what they are doing, is more likely to be done as scum, because Scum are the informed minority/.


You provided a situation where you helped lynch Ryan, although the original case on wagon was formed basically out of the blue from random comments. What I am doing, in this game, is helping to provide comments so that actual cases *can* be built. Maybe by me, maybe by someone else. The stupid, 'erroneous', 'illogical' case that I have put out on Mizzy, Zindaras, you, etc, maybe they don't stand very well on their own, RIGHT NOW... but maybe the way you responded to it is going to trigger someone else, later on, to look at you and build their own case, a case that is a lot more valid.

Considering that both Yosarian2 and Zindaras (Both very good scum hunters WHEN THEY ARE TOWN) are still alive, and Elmo and Strappado7 are not, it looks to me that scum is more interested in either hunting for power roles or for digging up WIFOM, the latter of which I have tried to illustrate to the best of my abilities. They are not focussed on killing the excellent debaters - I am not sure if Elmo is considered 'really good' or not, I know that I endgamed him as scum in Big Love which was really hard but whatever. The point is, wether I am making good cases or not, I Think that I am helping flush out information that is going to help town build cases later on.

[Skruffs]

Badadumpapost.

[Skruffs]

eldarad:
I thought that there were four people voting, not five, and I thought two of them had unvoted; so only me and Y were voting each other, and I also thought Zindaras was voting me.

Even though Capricious was town, I don't regret changing my vote over to him. really didn't like how Zindaras was attacking me for not pushing a case on someone else that I thought was more scummy; if I Remember correctly, he wasn't voting ANYONE, and actually didn't post for the first day or two of deadline. I Was pretty sure that a few townies would slow down in their posting, or get lazy, and that scum would just all have to avoid posting for a day resulting ina no lynch. And I believe that for day one, getting a lynch despite the odds is good, even if it wasn't statistically good for town.

COW

Your last input into the game was over a week ago, when you asked Mizzy if me or Rotten Snitch was more likely annoying pro-town or scum. You did not follow up and have (thankfully) been posting almost every day but haven't been contributing jack. You didn't post yesterday. If you don't pump up your act a bit I am going to think that ALL of the players currently arguing are all pro-town and you're just watching us attack each other. Don't be a scummy lurker.

[Skruffs]

Andycaca:
You said you found a contradiction in Y's posts day one but didn't follow through. What are they?
Also, I asked you why you thought voting was better than finger pointing? You didn't answer.


Zindaras:
Your last useful post was an attempt to 'call me out' by saying that after you attacked me I would back off and hide, or whatnot. I Did not turn tail and hide but rather responded, I think, rather concisely and pointedly. You threatened to vote me if I did not answer your questions, and when I asked you what questions you wanted answered, you effectively pretended you had never said anything threatening along those lines. You have been kinda hiding in the shadows since then, presumably waiting for another moment of opportunity to strike. You say you have posts but you are not posting. Why not?

I attacked you earlier for not posting in this game when you were posting in other games and your defense was that you were helping a friend with an essay and didn't have time for long attacks in here - but since then (And before then) you have done exactly what I was accusing you of NOT doing - filler posts to prevent a deadline. When you are posting elsewhere on the site, it's very easy to post a "Bump" to this thread, but you seem to avoid doing that around the times that other players are also not available. Why? And why did you try to twist what I was observing -t hat you were avoiding posting to this site - into a situation where I was trying to say you were required to post long attacks with every post?


EVeryone else is posting pretty regularly so I will just leave it at these three (Cow, andycaca, zindaras)

[Skruffs]

Thanks cow, appreciate the response.

[Skruffs]

Funny, that's what Zindaras said about me, and when I called his bluff on it he stopped posting content, too.

[Skruffs]

POST

[Skruffs]

Andy:
But you implied that him voting me since day one meant something- right? You didn't say anything about his reasoning, just that he was voting me for a long time which you took to mean was pro-town. That's basically the opposite of what you just said, up above, unless I am misunderstanding.

Zindaras: Very witty. Less wit, more content, plz.

[Skruffs]

I will contribute after I get back from job huntin'! Wish me lucxor!

[Skruffs]

Hey Y - do you think there is a connection between the lack of lynching and the lack of death? I'm curious about the way you phrased your statement, but don't want to start the day off the same way I have every other day, so I will let you explain.

I would like to politely correct both Y and Mizzy that we are actually in day three - Which means that if there is a cop, he got another investigation last night.

I would like to

Fos: Y

though for his choice of words. I am construing them to mean that he knows scum no-killed rather than the possibility that they were roleblocked or doc-protected. But since it's my interpretation, I am only

fos

sing.

Also: I thought that Saturdays and Sundays were both considered part of the same 24-hour block?

[Skruffs]

Roles are not important right now. Information-wise, everyone without an information role hasn't gotten a centimetre further.

The people who screwed us out of a lynch need to explain.

I'm still waiting for you to explain why you ignored my big post?
You threatened to vote me if I didn't 'answer your question', and when I Asked you to show me which question I didn't answer, you hee'd and haw'd for the rest of the day. The only thing you said in relation to me was yet another attack on my character, that I was "stirring up shit". I'm not sure why you would care considering you stopped doing cases after I Called your bluff and have been low-radaring ever since, BUT, regardless.

You have before said that the way I am playing is contiguous with town, and yet you seem to be trying to find a way to vote me anyways. why?

You also missed Thursday's deadline; if someone else hadn't posted in your place, you would be asked to explain. You do not have the right ot be pious because you were on the deadline and someone else wasn't.

Lastly:

Why do you think we are no further now than we were before? The scum had 48 hours to make a kill. Either they didn't get one in in time or there is a role that prevented it from happening. Why are you so quick to dismiss everything that happened between the missed deadline and today's morning while at the SAME TIME asking for answers from players who were not on the deadline block?

Fos for contradiction

Actually screw it

Vote : Zindaras

[Skruffs]

Side note:
I just finished modding a Newbie Game where Rotten Snitch was a town and gothimself lynched. I don't have any evidence of a game where he was scum, so there's no way to compare, but. Well you can see for yourself. I think the playstyles are similar in both games, but I don't know if his playstyle as scum is different than that as town.

[Skruffs]

The third werewolf is obviously GABRIEL... who we can't vote for because he's still a baby.

There is no reason to think that there is more than one killing group, though. We don't know if that killing group is a mafia, an SK, or a vig. If it's a vig, than we are probably dealing with a cult. If it's an SK, then we probably don't have any power roles. If it's a mafia, and we don't have any power roles, then it's probably a two player one (based on calvin and hobbs mafia and other mountainous setups), but if there are, and a doctor or roleblocker stopped the kill, then yeah it's a 3 player.

Yosarian: Who was idle on site during the 48 hour night stage?

[Skruffs]

Yup! And it also means that if scum noticed one or two players idle at that point, they could have no killed to set up a wifom. I'm kind of sad that you would push the point.

Y: Gabriel is Mizzy's baby.

I still don' tlike Mizzy's 'knowledge' she has presented abou the scum through the game. I agree that it is likely to be a 3 person scum group, but considering the only roles revealed have been townies, there's no way to say WHAT we are arguing against, so.

[Skruffs]

I was pretty sure that Yosarian2 brought it up first, and I was baiting him to see if he was actually trying to push it. HOwver, like with everything else in this world, I guess I could be mistaken.

Y: Could you quote the post where I agree that there is 3 scum 'as a final conclusion'? I know you're not trying to put words in my mouth.

I'm trying to figure out how I am being linked to RS. Can someone explain this to me? IS this the classic "He's defending the really obnoxious player which means he is scum and 'knows' he is town and is trying to get townie points" attack on me? THat's the only one I Can see as applicable, and even then, I made the connection between me and RS known in the beginning of the game. For those who forget, me and Rotten Snitch have played mafia together in real life.

[Skruffs]

I was working along the lines htat Yos had brough it up, first. I remember it being right (or close) to right after day started. I could be wrong. I looked, and didn't see it. *Sigh*
Sometimes I Wonder if I really *am* on crack.

[Skruffs]

So he's not scum?

[Skruffs]

Unvote, vote rotten snitch

Zindaras came out with a warning and then dropped the game..

Mod: PRod Zindaras and.or replace him

This sucks because I've been defending RS through the entire game. IF he turns up town, I looke like scum buddying up to scummy townie, and if he's scum, I look like scum reverse-psychologizing town into thinking I'm a dumb townie.

But if you killed strappado then you must die!

[Skruffs]

I am absolutely sure that you wouldn't, but I also realize that she may have been a security kill from one of your partners. Maybe a partner who sensed you being a newcomer and thought you having a RL contact 'on the other side' would jeopardize you - and thus their own - involvement in the game.

I don't think that's what happened, but I am pretty sure that it would have come up in night talk activities.

[Skruffs]

unvote zindaras

Meh.

[Skruffs]

Hmm.

I'm horrible at breadcrumbing so I will go out and say it, because it's probably more useful to everyone than just to me: I received some WOlfsbane last night.
If I targetted someone with it, and they were humnan they would probably slap me in the face. If I target someone and they are a wolf, they would probably die.

I targetted Zindaras and he didn't die. I am assuming that someone wanted me to target Zindaras, because I was attacking Zindaras most of hte last two days. I did target Zindaras, he didn't die.

I wouldn't have claimed but if we are at LYLO Than it is important to get that information out. Also, I am hoping that there might be up to 3 other people who have also have received these things at night.

[Skruffs]

I figured that there was a role that was handing things out, but the thing is, everyone claiming to have received something that DOESN'T help figure out who scum is (or isn't) is helping scum figure out who the person giving out the stuff is.

My thoughts:

I asked Ether if the wolfbane would be useful against a god-father type werewolf role, but she wouldn't confirm or deny anything. Soooo I'm not really looking there.

What I was hoping would be that someone else had received it the night before I did and used it on someone, too. Because I'm thinking that me giving it to another player might have protected them (Because wolfbsane is used to ward off werewolves, right?) so maybe Zindaras was last night's nightkill or something.

[Skruffs]

I jammed it up their friggin nose.

[Skruffs]

And if a werewolf has it shoved up his nose, how would it 'reject' the werewolf then?

[Skruffs]

I think Y is the one required to diagram this, he's the one insinuating I'm fake claiming.

[Skruffs]

Skruffs, yet again you understand whatever you want to understand, no matter what I actually say.

You said that you think it would kill a werewolf. That was your assumption. I just made a different one. Do you have any reason to believe people think this claim is fake?

No, it's not my ASSUMPTION... as I said when I claimed it, if I had targeted a werewolf with it, it PROBABLY would have killed the werewolf. To me that says that it would have killed MOST werewolves, but there is a clause for a GODFATHER type role.

There's no reason for Y to say that 'there's no reason to think wolfsbane wouldn't kill a werwolf, but reject him". THAT'S What is making me 'defensive'. WOlfsbane used to be grown in cemetaries, and would be used to poison and kill elderly and sick people in villages. KILL. That it was kept on door steps as protection confirms that the wolves avoid it because it KILLS THEM.

If you shove a sprig of it up a werewolf's nose, then, theoretically, that sprig should KILL THEM.


Or in shorter terms, I am angry at Y because he seems to be trying to outguess the mod as a way to discredit me.

I'm ready to vote him.

[Skruffs]

THIS

is from the background story:

"Now, killing werewolves is in our blood, if it's in anyone's. But they are fearsome enemies. By night, they take the forms of furious beasts which cannot be felled without special weapons, tipped with silver or ground wolfsbane. And by day, they could be anyone. Anyone at all."

Y is referring to this:

""Anyway, we tried this out on the Kappa-Kappa-Kappas, who tried to file a lawsuit on Gramps. But they were no match for our new lynching system. Once we disposed of them all, another brilliant man--her grandfather, incidentally--thought to plant wolfsbane all over the village. And the smell has kept the wolves out...for good."

Now you tell ME why Y would discard the first paragraph and use the second paragraph to dispute my claim,a claim that's been semi-backed up by OTHER PLAYERS as being a recurring instance-type role?

[Skruffs]

I don't much like Y's play, and Yos is acting odd, I've never seen him try to make someone as town because they can't them as part of a three man scum group. THat's just really REALLY odd, and looks bad on Yos.

[Skruffs]

I don't much like Y's play, and Yos is acting odd, I've never seen him try to make someone as town because they can't them as part of a three man scum group. THat's just really REALLY odd, and looks bad on Yos.

...what?

Everyone should be trying to figure out who could theoretically be part of a 3 man scum group and who couldn't. That's how you find the scum in lynch or lose. How is that "odd", Skruffs?

I play the game of "Find one scum at a time", especially considering we can't be absolutely sure that it is a three man scum group. While a three man scum group is "Average", I myself have never used one. What if it is a two man scum group?

[Skruffs]

Yos: You find a two man scum group "pretty unlikely", but your form of scum hunting makes your chances of being right 0% if there is one. Why are you willing to take that risk? I've *NEVER* seen you hunt scum like that as town.

I think your form of scum hunting (IE: it's one big logic puzzle) completely plays into the hands of any scum who have been, oh, say, buddying up to towns or bussing from others through the entire game.

[Skruffs]

Mizzy: Why is Yos obvtown?
Why do you need ot get a better feel on Y? He was a major part of yesterday's discussions.

[Skruffs]

Eldarad, why do you need to know who gave you the moonshine before you can use the results of your investigation to clear someone? Wouldn't it be better to out the information, considering you are only a ONE SHOT cop, and thus even if you were killed for clearing RS, you would A) lower the chances of a mislynch and B) the giver would be 'protected' for another night?

Also, I received my item last night. For you to receive a "statistic" last night, means there are two 'givers'.

[Skruffs]

But you were defending him because you thought he was cleared. And instead of pushing htat, you were trying to find out who gave it to you, instead??

[Skruffs]

How would the sky come down?

[Skruffs]

Well, it's possible that ALL of the items were received are in fact ploys by evil scum to distract us. If you guys are really sure that we are in lynch or lose, maybe a full disclosure, at least by those who got items, would be pertinent. It makes it harder for scum to figure out who the item givers are, SINE they could be giving items to each other. POtentially, one item giver is scum, too, though that seems unlikely. Or everything could be a placebo.

[Skruffs]

If ether was giving out items, there would *have* to be a system that she would use to allocate them. Ether likes rules like that. She would absolutely not bastard mod by picking and choosing who she wanted to reward. Even if it was using random.org, she would keep the choice of who received what out of her own hands.

I Assumed that someone gave me the wolfsbane intentionally, because I had made such a point of going after Zindaras, that they wanted me to either clear him (mostly) or kill him, either of which would have got me to stop talking about it. That striked me as one of two options:

A) They knew Zindaras would be immune if they are scum
or
B) They are town and thought I would be likely to target Zindaras (if I was town), and thus are putting forethought into their actions,
or
C) It was random.org'd, which doesn't really make sense unless the mod was doing it.

It's not important to know who has an item and hasn't use it yet. But I think that to avoid a situation like RS's lynch yesterday, we should all claim today.

Fos: Eldarad

until further notice.

What if the last two nights haven't had any kills because the mafia are relying on items to do night actions, too? IF that's the case, then if someone gave out wolfsbane or the equivalent night 0, they might want to claim.

[Skruffs]

The deadline is coming up, isn't it.

Let's get cracking.

I need to check eldarad's claim that there were 5 items unused at the beginning of the night last night. That would mean that 2 items n0, n1, n2 = 6 items and only his item had been used, correct?

[Skruffs]

But that would be AWFULLY convenient for scum if that happened.

[Skruffs]

We also don't know if that result counted Eld's item or not so we might really be looking for 4, not 5. Does that make sense? I'm half asleep.

It shouldn't have counted the item he received because he received that item after the night began, which was the point that his item claims to have came into affect. So technically his 'censor' was about all the items in play at lynch.

[Skruffs]

This is a good point. That suggests that there were 6 people including me who had supplies/items to use last Night, plus anyone else who also got an item during or at the start of last Night. That's a lot when there are only 8 people alive...

No.. I think it suggests that before you received your item (And I received mine) that there were 5 items in play. Theoretically, that means there are still 5 items in play, unless other people used theirs.

IF someone got a one-shot RBer and used it they might want to claim.

[Skruffs]

If I were to vote for Eldarad, it would be becase hedidn't offer the information for saving RS until after RS had already been killed.

I hate these deadlines, especially in a game where we know SO LITTLE...

[Skruffs]

With 8 alive, and at LYLO, I'd rather have one more night and risk a NK. Obviously if I get a wolfsbane I am using it on Eldarad tonight.

[Skruffs]

Or it's possible scum get a 'kill' every night in the form of an itema nd are going to use all of them at once.

PANIC IN THE STREETS!

Which brings up a question:

Mod: Are items stackable?

[Skruffs]

Mod: If there were items, could they stack?

I think we should probably all item-claim, right now, in the case that they are. MAfia, three people, two nightkills, means that not lynching them today (with the possibbility of stacked items) could put the town at 3:3, instant scum win.

Mod: You are killing me here. The deadline-lynch rules coupled with items coupled with general non-acknbowledgement of things is making it hard to 'figure things out'. I feel like I'm in Calvin & Hobbes mafia again.

[Skruffs]

Don't you FOS me, "Cow who has been lurking"... If we're in secret lylo because hte mafia has an unfair advantage and we have no way of knowing, at least I can say I brought up the idea and gloat about it forever.

Why do you think there were FIVE ITEMS that had not been used yet in teh game? Stacking items makes perfect sense.

[Skruffs]

That's true.. plus there'd have to be a mafia item giver for that to work..

Well, we could claim who had items at the beginning of hte night, but not what those items are... or when they got them, if you want

[Skruffs]

Questoin:
If there were two items that did the same thing (kills a werewolf), why would they have two names?

This is just speculation but Moonshine sounds more like a RBing item to me.

[Skruffs]

ahh, my misunderstanding. Wolsbane ddi not give me any results.. it just vigs werewolves.

Y: I was responding to you.

Eldarad: You should full claim because you are the apathy lynch if nothing else happens.

[Skruffs]

Mizzy... you don't appear to be voting yourself... and you seem to be detracting away from something that can actually effect the game, without offering a counter discussion thing.. and not even voting..

Just a big red flag there

[Skruffs]

Mizzy... you don't appear to be voting yourself... and you seem to be detracting away from something that can actually effect the game, without offering a counter discussion thing.. and not even voting..

Just a big red flag there

Actually, I'm trying to start up a game I'm modding, and want to re-read Eldarad from today before I do actually vote him. The modding thing is taking up most of my time at the moment, but once that game gets going, I'll be able to re-read him like I want to.

I don't want to vote ANYONE at this point without being really, really sure of the vote. I would hope everyone else would feel the same.

So, in hte meanwhile, discussing the items would be a good thing, right?

I had a dream that I got an items... it was pens with the ink all used up, or somehting, and the mod had accidentally left hte name of hte person who had first gotten the items... named Count_Vakir or something. Anyways there's no user by that name on hte site so it wasn't premonition or anything. Shucks.

[Skruffs]

What I don't get in regards to the eldarad wagon is why he would not talk about the investigation while RS was alive, and then would bring it up for apparently no reason after he had died. Wouldn't it have been better to just not bring it up? Or to claim a result on a living person that he would already know is town?

As scum, how does it benefit him?

I might be playing D.A. here, just strikes me as funny. And by funny, I mean, "Worth thinking about".

[Skruffs]

Good response, Yos.

STillllll thiunk Mizzy's scum.
Sorry Mizzy. ^.^

[Skruffs]

posting..nightnight

[Skruffs]

Oooh.
Yos just shot WAY up there....

[Skruffs]

Yeah, from my POV, either eldarad is scum, or Yos2, hasdgfas, Sweatpants, is the scum group.

HM.

Is Yos2, hasdgfas, Sweatpants such an unreasonable scum group???

Uh oh. :X

Could... o.O? I don't think so but...

~Guardian

You forgot the whole , "What if scum need items to night kill" option.

[Skruffs]

Wait... if we lynch Eldarad, Guardian *won't* Die tonight?
What are you getting at, Yos?

[Skruffs]

You know, maybe it's just me, but having RS cleared of being one type of scum is extremely valuable information. Sure, he could have been a different type of scum, but still, knowing he was NOT option A would have been really frickin' nice.

That only works if you know that werewolves are a type of scum.

If I had that knowledge when I used the Moonshine, I wouldn't have hesitated to tell the town of my non-werewolf result. But I didn't have that knowledge.

Actually I am still not positive that the werewolves are the scum, however, all of the items claim to be revolving around werewolves.

If the GOOD people are werewolves and the bad people are, non-werewolves, then Zindaras/Guardian of course just got 'outed' as scum. This is why I Would like to see if someone received a one-shot vig that allowed them to kill n1.

[Skruffs]

Hmmm.

Sir Tornado, are you really catatonic? Can you post?

[Skruffs]

Why was it a predictable kill, cow?

Yosarian2 hadn't claimed; and wouldn't the Tiger T wins have been more obvious, seeing as they are 'partially cleared'?

[Skruffs]

Also, Mizzy:
Did you target me with something last night?

[Skruffs]

It was to you, maybe, but I hadn't really noticed.

Did yos go after anyone else significantly?

[Skruffs]

Traditionally Alpha, in wolf pack terms, means "Top of the chain", which suggests a godfather type role. Int he other werewolf game I was in, werewolves had no distinctions except that the alpha sent in the kill; and if he died the beta took over, to the delta, etc.

I wanted Mizzy to confirm that what I received was from her; I got a chain letter which had her name on it and had come from Yosarian2 before her.

At first I was suspicious of Mizzy for sending it to me because there is one part of hte letter which refers to 'if etiher mizzy or yos dies' and comes up town I should think the other is town, but Cow's immediate response of Yos's being top target (and being correct) about it makes him more suspicious to me.

Y is still the most suspicious of the players to me but I would need to make sure my suspiciouns are well founded enough to fit the game.

[Skruffs]

BTW:
The chain letter has been sent from player to player; it doesn't mean that Mizzy was the original 'inventor' of it.

I don't know who sent it out first but they sent it to yos -> Mizzy -> me.

That means Yos thinks Mizzy was town, if that matters.

[Skruffs]

When would you have asked Mizzy about the item?

[Skruffs]

Yes, scum CAN day talk. I Didn't realize until last night that they could.

For the record though - eldarad claimed to have targetted RS with moonshine, and I claimed to have targetted Zindaras with wolfsbane.

I was still a little suspicious of TT yesterday, because I thought maybe if there was a 'godfather' type role that TT might have been it, however, with eldarad dead as scum-alpha (which would be the closest to godfather, there is no pack role higher than "Alpha"), my suspicions are eased.

I do like that Y waited until today to bring it up, though, presumably he's following cow's lead in tryign to get suspicion on me.

Well with eldarad lying about one, possibly both items he received, and with the inventor dead, would you all like to claim fully the items that have been received?

[Skruffs]

I agree, especially items that aren't used yet.

[Skruffs]

Cow is still rather suspicious, from the whole "yos was an obv kill" statement.

I'm concerned that being in a lylo situation, scum might push for a mislynch. The mizzy-tspn-y chain, I needc to examine that.

[Skruffs]

And Yos WAS an obvkill to those who found him to be pro-town.

So far that is you, and cow. Did anyone else seem to be convinced Yos was town?

[Skruffs]

Especially when Moonshine is alcohol and Ether is not a moron?

Don't outguess the mod.
Love you Ether!

[Skruffs]

Okay. Calling Y out on discrepancies in behavior towards players. This is what Y had to say about eldarad after the items claims and such:

I made a re-read for eldarad, and I did find some posts where he says that werewolves might not be scum before the claim. That validates his point, although I still think the play was wrong. The town has the right to decide who to lynch, not the single person with info.

There was a post I didn't like though, so I just have one question, eldarad: If you weren't sure that RS is town, why did you protect him?
I'd like you to consider this:

eldarad seems weird to me. He protected RS, who was in fact town, but it seems like his reason was more "I know he's town" than "I don't think he's scum".

Exactly right.

On Night 2 I received a 'moonshine' - basically a one-shot cop.
It allowed me to identify a werewolf. RS is not a werewolf. Although I don't know who - if anyone - gave the item to me, or even whether the scum are werewolves (if they are not, then the item is basically useless.)

Be careful with your answer, since it's probably the one keeping me from switching votes.

You either think some one is town, and you protect him, or you think he's scum, and you attack him. There's no "I'll protect him for not being a werewolf, but let him die for potentially being scum anyway".

In response to my post you said you were protecting him for knowing he's town.

If by the time deadline closes in tomorrow you have no good explanation - I'll be the one to hammer you.

Note that both times he says that if eldarad doesn't explain himself, he will vote him - giving eldarad the chance to weasel out of things, before actually putting the punch on. However, even though eh didn't vote him, he said this the next day:

I do like that Y waited until today to bring it up, though, presumably he's following cow's lead in trying to get suspicion on me.

Is this a good thing? I don't know about you, but I had no way of knowing eldarad was scum

before we actually lynched him

...

I think that if there's another player who received wolfsbane, he should claim. We're using it a semi-confirmation, and I'd like to know that it's not made up.

He wasn't voting Eldarad but he seems to be saying that he helped lynch him. However, both of his posts were trying ot encourage eldarad to explain himself so as to give Y a reason *not* to vote.

Here's the other votes Y has made in the game, two of them on now-confirmed townies, one on me:

If I'm not mistaken, deadline kicks in in less than 24 hours (It's actually the 19th already were I am).

I agree with Yos that we should at least try progressing somewhere.

Vote Skruffs.

Enough reasons were mentioned already.

RS: You're slipping and then trying, unsuccessfully, to get away with it.
Investigation? If you were investigated, then there's only one player knowing it. The cop. No reason for the town to react to an investigation.
You said that you purposefully didn't post, then you said you weren't sarcastic about that, and then that you didn't say it. Later you claimed again to miss the deadline post on purpose.
I was, by the way, the one to call you on the filler posts. Mizzy followed me. Is there a reason you're accusing only her? Would it be bad for your case against her?

I Also don't like the way eldarad protects him. I don't see RS play as a mad townsperson.
Skruffs, again, strikes me as linked to RS. First for distancing, and now he protects him, but with an escape exit.

Vote RS, FoS eldarad and Skruffs.

Remember how I had a list of 4 people, and said that 3 of the 4 of them must be scum? If we lynch every day, and the scum miss at least one more kill before the end of the game, then we have 4 lynches left, and are therefore basically guarenteed to win.

You're missing one very important thing: This list is based on you being town and so does TT, but we have no reason to believe that's true. So far you've been pushing a lynch every day and you pushed in a wrong way every time. Forgive me for not following your "great" logic for once.

Besides Skruffs and TT, who are more or less confirmed, we have

six

people. Our chances are probably 50%-50% in a LYLO situation. Those are not good odds to push a lynch just for the sake of avoiding a no-lynch. With all the missed NKs, it seems like mislynches are the best way for the scum to win, doesn't it?

You all wanted both a decision, and a good candidate for a lynch, so here it is:

Vote Yosarian2

.
I'm tired of you knowing exactly what the town must do while dragging us all down the drain.

eldarad, I see two options:
1. You're scum, you tried to score some "townie" points by protecting an innocent, but you weren't cautious enough, so now you're trying to lie your way out of it (You being scared of exposure makes you be too reckless).
2. You're so bad as a player, that you decided to keep important information to yourself, although you could have simply explain it to the town and avoid the whole mess.
While I tend to believe the first option is the right one, after I saw RS play I can't dismiss the second.
By the way, why Mizzy?

Also note that Y (at the end of hte post where he votes Yosarian2) is sayign that he sees eldarad as scum, or bad townie, referring to RS (Who he voted for being a bad townie) as the basis for his statement.

He's only really treated one player other than Eldarad in that 'hesitant' manner, that I have seen, but that's not really important - yet.


I am not voting him because I think we are at lylo, however, I am thinking that

Y

is definitely one of the werewolves.

[Skruffs]

*cough y is scum cough*

[Skruffs]

post (sorry)

[Skruffs]

I'm not sold on TSPN.
I'm still looking more at Y and Cow.
I wouldn't mind a nolynch today, to allow any remaining items to be used tonight and perhaps to get more information.
IT being lylo, a nolynch would lower the number of players to 5, rather than 6, which is also beneficial for town in a purely random voting element.

Also, as far as I can tell, TSPN has votes on him because Yos had the scum group narrowed down to two possibilities, with him in both.

While TT is mostly cleared, he seems to be more suspicious of Y than TSPN until the post where he votes TSPN, with this as his reason:

"He had the scum group pegged to eldarad-andy-y or eldarad-andy-hasd."

Personally, cow and Y are both much more suspicious in my own mind.

[Skruffs]

Voting first in a six man lylo is not disastous; two townies would need to still be voting for a scum quick lynch, assuming a 3 man initial scum group.

Something about guardian's paranoia about the items intrigues me. There is no reason to think there is a scum inventor, is there? Are any claimed items not able to be tracked back to yosaraian2?

We have:
Moonshine(n3?)
Chain letter (n1)
Wolfsbane (n4)
And I think someone claimed an item n2 but haven't revealed it yet. the jailkeeper is dead, so the two missing kills are so far unexplained. Either A) scum didn't have a kill or B) didn't send one in, C) the kill was stopped by another role or item.

Oddly, I decided to look at the first post:

Dead: 6

strappado, Gaoler, killed Night 1
Capricious, Villager, lynched Day 1
Elmo, Villager, killed Night 2
Rotten Snitch, Villager, lynched Day 3

eldarad, Alpha, lynched Day 4

Yosarian2

replaces Sir Tornado

, Inventor, killed Night 5

Hmmm.
I was going to point out a pattern but it doesn't hold; I thought that mafia could't nk after a mislynch but obviously that is wrong.

Tspn: claim
Tt: why are you pushing so hard for tspn on such weak grounds?

[Skruffs]

dammit somehow this game got unwatched.

[Skruffs]

I am not going to share any part of the letter, but I will say what I remember abou it.

Yosarian2 talked a lot about how we would likely bein LYLO (this was the night he sent it to Mizzy, mizzy went it to me the night Yos died). He talked about trying to use the letter to provoke reactions.

He also said he could prove himself to be town if he had to - which he did not do the day after he gave this to Mizzy. That's kind of why I was so suspicious of Cow when he said Yos was the obvious choice - only Mizzy had received this letter, and for Cow to know he could prove himself (IE he was the most protown) puts double suspicion on him. The writing style is similar to Yosarian2's - IE I believe he sent it to mizzy and mizzy has taken credit for that and sent it to me.

[Skruffs]

Hey hey hey.

[Skruffs]

Posting.
Not willing to possibly mislynch on the given options, I Would rather nolynch and see what the night brings.

Nobody has claimed any reasons for why there were no kills the other nights yet, which would potentially clear or damn a player.

[Skruffs]

We know there are two inventors. One of them has not been killed. Ergo, instead of potentially ending the game with a mislynch, we allow the surviving inventor to hand out one more item, if they have one, which could potentially help the town.

If I remember correctly, the case agaisnt TSPN was because:

A) Yos had the scum group pegged to eldarad-andy-y or eldarad-andy-hasd. Andy was the common factor which makes it more likely that he is scum than either Y or cow.

This is an incorrect assertion to make. I see nowhere where Yos had scum 'pinned down' to those two scenarios. I see posts where Yosarian2 attacked Y, and posted suspicion about Andy. I think that Y was much more interested in going after Y at this point than Andy. However, I think he wanted pressure on Andy to figure out why he acted so strangely towards Eldarad.

Also, Y's vote on TSPN is pretty much a "I don't think he's scum but I'd hate not to lynch" at lylo. It sounds to me like someone trying to get a mislynch.

No lynching does not end the game at this point, but mislynching probably does. Unless there's only one scum. And if there's only one scum, then the idea of lynching TSPN because he's in Yos's supposed three person group makes less sense.

Vote: Y

[Skruffs]

Mizzy:
Yosarian2 said he had an item that could prove himself. I don't think inventors can target themselves.

Also, there are more items claimed to be in play than there are nights, which means two inventors have been distributing items.

For example, the claimed items are the Chainletter, which went:
("Heavens", Guardian, Yos2, not sent, Mizzy, Skruffs)
Moonshine
Wolfsbane
Mizzy's Nose Trumpet (Used in May)
Eldarad's census letter (which might have been a fake claim) which said there were 5 items not used
Cow's n1 item
Yosarian2's undisclosed item.
and the still as of yet unrevealed item that Yosarian2 sent out last night (at least).
Assuming that none of the revealed items were given out last night (because nobody has claimed to receive one last night) that means at least 7 items in four nights, which means a very high probability of there being 2 inventors. Any of the people lynched or Nk'd before I claimed to have "Scum-only-vigged" Zindy may also have had or used items but didn't get the chance to say so. For example, remember how Rotten Snitch was acting really strangely before he got lynched?

Yes I am Da Bomb

Andy - I'm still debating whether I should say anything at all.
Sarcasm is the best way to go when you are trying to be lynched.

Maybe Rotten Snitch had an item similar to a Super Saint, if he gets lynched he kills hte last person to vote him if he wants to or something.

The reason I support this theory is because Rotten SNitch claimed to be DA BOMB, and in his death scene we looted his pockets (before we knew about items) and found a watch, which Andycaca stepped on.

"Stupid salesman told me mine was unique," he grumbles as Skruffs goes through Rotten Snitch's pockets. But there's nothing of interest--just that ticking, ticking watch. Andycyca makes a point of stepping on it as you head for your homes.

So I think either he was an optional super-saint type of item, or maybe he even had the ability to blow himself up with someone else. It makes sense witht he way he was acting shortly before he got lynched. Andycaca was the last person to vote him though, and is the one who snapped his neck.

I received an item n1 as well, which means there were 2 given out that night somehow.

Andy never received an item.


I'm really not liking how Guardian is saying that we should lynch TSPN because Yos had it narrowed down to eldarad, TSPN, and one of Y, cow, when msot of the day yesterday Guardian was saying stuff like

Yeah, from my POV, either eldarad is scum, or Yos2, hasdgfas, Sweatpants, is the scum group.

HM.

Is Yos2, hasdgfas, Sweatpants such an unreasonable scum group???

Uh oh. :X

Could... o.O? I don't think so but...

and

Although, yos, what about say, any three of andy, Y, Skruffs, hasdgfas. Would that not be a possible group?

Skruffs and Y and hasd both seem pretty town to me though Razz.

It sucks because from what I have seen with GUardian as scum, he plays like this (I am thinking about the nightless game, open 19, specifically), and Zindaras was acting funny too. I'm the one who cleared them, though I'm wondering if one of the inventors. Not sure where to go with it but he seemed to be deliberately trying to push Yos away from eldarad, and trying to tie yos to TSPN and cow, but today he's pushing TSPN and Y over cow.... it just aggravates me.

hasdfgh: Have you used your item yet? Was it useful?

TSPN: You think a lynch is good for town, but you seem resigned to being lynched yourself. What's your deal?

Also:

Oh, oh, I understand completely.

Hasdfgas, this is why you need to vote for y. As mizzy just put it, either me and y are buddies, or me and you are buddies. If me and y are buddies, then the possible scumgroups are me and y, or mizzy and y. Y being the common denominator, so please vote for him. If I'm his scumbuddy, I won't miss him one bit.

Or of course, me and you are scum. But you know whether or not that's true.

TT, this goes out to you too, but as you don't know that me and hasdfgas aren't the scum, I have to rely on you deciding which scumgroup is more plausible.

What was the point of this post? I was sitting here thinking you were town until I ran over this.

TSPN's case on Mizzy is based ont he numbers of him not being lynched (I think it was forgotten that it takes 4 to lynch in a 6 player lylo situation with 2 scum fi that's the case) and because mizzy refused to hammer eldarad. He's also suspicious of Y for fossing eldarad but trying to deflect attention away from eldarad and onto yos. (I also was angry at Y and cow for trying to say that because eldarad had fake claimed, ti was likely that I had as well).

Y: Do you think the mafia no-killed, or that their kills were prevented?


All this being said, I know who the second inventor is. However, I don't know if it's likely that the second inventor is also town; an anti town inventor seems possible, especially with Eldarad (presumably inspection proof) claiming to have received two items, one which gives him information about the game and one which could have been used to 'clear' another player.


And, also good to know, is that there is not confirmed useful items in the game. IE, none ofhte items that have been used have given 'positive' results; the nose horn, the wolfsbane, the moonshine, none of them have actually received 'proof' of anything. The only letter that can be proved is a completely neutral item, the chain letter. Guardian never actually received it, Zindaras did, so his question about if it could have been sent twice in one night is forgiveable. The reason I am positing this is because of an earlier discussion abuot the wolfsbane; wolfsbane is used to repel wolves from places you want to protect a player from sleep. If we are all morons who don't know how to use the items we have (which is very possible in an Ether game), it amkes absolute sense that I would shove it in someone's nose to kill them rather than to put it on their doorstep.

[Skruffs]

Skruffs

, do you ever pay attention? Yosarian corrected himself and said he actually could NOT use the item to clear himself.

I don't think the chain letter was crafted by an inventor because it's not an invention. I also don't think that wolfsbane was crafted by an inventor because it's not an invention, either.

I don't believe Moonshine exists.

And did you ever think that maybe Yosarian could make more than 1 item per night? We don't know what his role entails. We can barely even speculate.

He still received an item, though, regardless of it's usefullness.

Removing all of Eldarad's claimed items as scum's lies, you still have at LEAST five items. TSPN is partially being strung up for having 'too much info' as to wether or not eldarad received an item; part of the reason that you are voting him is because you think that he 'knew' eldarad received an item and that he 'knew' that eldarad was reacting as scum would if scum had received that item.

Correct?

To now say that you do not think that eldarad even had an item means that TSPN's "knowledge" scum tell is in fact a null tell based off his own speculation, and not based on knowledge, because there was no 'knowledge' of those items to pick up on.

See? I am paying attention.

[Skruffs]

Guardian:
We played in Ork mafia where you pushed a very town mass claim day one, and then turned out to be a miller and got lynched, and we played in Big Love, but you replaced out of it. Regardless, as town, from my own experience, you follow your OWN hunches, because you like tot alk about how you were right at the end of the game. So going after a dead town player's theories because he was right about one person - and I still don't even see where you get that Yos has them all situated like that - and adopting them as your own IS out of character for you.

Also remember that Zindaras also played in a way that I associated with scum-Zin. I'm not going after you because I am guessing that the wolfsbane was real and would have killed you if you were a werewolf; if it turns out that the item wasn't trustworthy I'm unloading on you.

Also, your response almost seems to be you giving credence to my suspicions.

[Skruffs]

Skruffs, you seem to be basing your pseudo-suspicion of me based on the notion I'd rather brag at the end of the game rather than lynch correctly. Honestly... piss off.

This is completely incorrect. My pseudo-suspicion is based on how you would rather be right than to let someone else make a decision for you. You have strong faith in your own gut, so relying on someone else's is out of hte ordinary for you.

In both Ork and especially in Big Love, no one else had any idea of what was going on. I replaced out of BL because half the people were playing like idiots, and in Ork I led the only lynch of scum until we lynched the last scum because we had a guilty on them/innocent on everyone else.

Does this mean that you feel that we have an idea of what is going on? Because honestly until we lynched eldarad, I had no clue what the scum were, or even if there were any.

And as for 'giving credence to your suspicion'... you're

not

trying to pull the 'scummy for overdefending' card are you? Because we all know that's a load of whooey. What was I meant to do -- blissfully ignore you?

No, I didn't say you were overdefending. I was suggesting that the way you defended implied that you gave credence to my suspicions. Bascially saying "Well I do that as town too!" (as I interpretted it) is subconciously agreeing that I am right about you doing that as scum.

Also, Skruffs, if you did receive wolfsbane and it was actually useless, how might you possibly come to find that out, short of Ether PM-ing you and telling you it was so?

If a mafia-inventor is lynched, there might be cause to think that some of the items were sent out with the intentions of misleading town. Think abo uit this way; if wolsbane was intentionally given to me by an inventor, the inventor had to know I Would target either Y or Zindaras with it, because I was most at odds with both of them (and mizzy to a smaller extent) through the first three days of the game. I was against Zindaras from his first post, where he did exactly what he did in Dantes In Fresno, start a wagon on e then quasi defend me. So if the inventor who gave it to me was town, they wanted me to potentiallly vig someone, which means that they did not think that Y or Zindaras were scum (the most likely targets to be vigged by giving it to me). (If they were scum and knew the item was false or bad, they would know that me using it would partially 'clear' zindaras/you.

Where's this all coming from Skruffs, and what's the point? It seems like you are pulling it out of thin air... and you yourself cleared me as not scum..

What I Do like is how you are deflecting attention away from Y right now.

Wait...why would Yosarian say anything other than "I got an item" if he was trying to hide being the Inventor? He very well could have made the item himself and kept it, or he could have sent it out and randomly gotten it back. And he ONLY said he "got" one in the Chain Letter which cannot be confirmed as truth one way or another. When he mentioned it in thread he only mentioned having it; not how he got it. So that whole point is null.

Just because I don't think the item existed doesn't mean that I can't find TSPN's reaction to the item/item claim/item claim results after the fact scummy. I feel like TSPN is feeling hesitant about attacking a scumbuddy's potentially-fake item claim.

This is not a very logical assumption. If Yosarian2 was an inventor who could make and use his own items, why would he give them out to other players at all? How would he have 'gotten it back'? Why do you think he would claim to have received an item as a pro-town player? If he was an inventor and was potentially sending information about items he received (Which could make him a threat) why would he draw attention to himself by saying it? Why wouldn't he just say something like "This is the only item I received, it sounds like the items are useless, blahblahblah" to detract attention away from himself?

You can feel TSPN's reactions pro-town or scummy if you want, but if you are basing his reactions on the idea that as his scum partner he 'knew' eldarad received the item and reacted according to that versus he 'knew' eldarad didn't receive the item and was just bussing him, it's completely different reasons to be attacking him. What you are accusing people of and what you are saying you believe are different things altogether, and they are not adding up.

TSPN:

Why Mizzy and/or Y, and not Hasdfgas? Are you basing it on numbers? If so, did you take into account that it takes four to lynch, and not three?

[Skruffs]

My case on Y is based on scumminess, his attitude toward eldarad particularly, and my case on mizzy is based (mostly) on numbers.

That is, Mizzy is almost definitely scum, because if it was Y and hasdfgas, or, I suppose, Y and you, or some other increasingly less likely combination, you could hammer, even with four to lynch. I think Y is more likely scum with mizzy than hasdfgas. . . and now considering that Y also has two votes, that also pretty well knocks out a mizzy-hasdfgas combination.

So I'm down for lynching either of them, but Y seems to be the more lynchable player today.

Were you at three votes? I know Mizzy was voting you, which means that two townies would also have to be voting you for a second 'scum' to hammer for the win.

[Skruffs]

Post

If I made up my item, then what item was actually received that night; eld's census item? I was the first person to claim an item; either I received an item, or if I a scum, one of my buddy's did, or one of my buddy's is an invntor.

I nver cleared tspn; my item partially cleared guardian. I used scum hunting to push Y. Y, claim now, guardian and mizzy are setting you up to be hammered with out claiming.

[Skruffs]

I was after Mizzy and Guardian from the very beginning for butering up to each other as possible opposite factions... I was thinking abou all the items, and none of them wound up helping town at all, I think. NONE OF THEM. I could be wrong though.

I was so confused about the game, I Didn't know why I Wanted to lynch Guardian even though he had been 'mostly cleare'd, because his actions were just so scummy... pushing a lynch in potential lylo based on a dead town player's suspicions was just soooo not town-guardian though.

It kind of sucks that there was nothing that could have outed the hitman, or killed him, except the one power role who wound up dying n0. *shakes fist at Ether*

[Skruffs]

Eh, I think I would follow dead Yos-town's advice in the future though as town. Think of it as an exception to the rule for me. Yos is just that good .

No, I just have a good read on you lately.