Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[RadiantCowbells]

-boop-

vc here at ~2 est.

[Ginngie]

Gamma dies today, I sort nancy tomorrow

This makes zero sense. Why gambit, get EXCITED about the outcome, and then refuse to follow the results?

You haven't been reading closely have you?

[Drixx]

@mod: Hurricane update

- Both my Parent's an sister's homes made it through relatively unscathed. Some light flooding (2-3 feet) for a few hours. I'm still hosting as my folks aren't due to fly out until Thursday night, so still V/LA, but probably no need to extend on my behalf.

[nancy]

What do you mean dispute it? I don't understand what you're referring to.

[Drixx]

I don't want to say more just now, but I'm pretty much certain Ginngie is doing the right thing. Of particular note is the two posts that Gamma made with reads and what was said in between them.

Why did Nancy and Massive both drop? Nancy dropped out of "near certain town" (and that by itself raises the question of how he had THREE people at "near certain town" without any explanation) and Massive dropped from Townie to null. He also pushed Massive to claim in the 2nd reads post.

Then he apparently realized he had left Math, myself and DH off, because there we are at the next reads list post, and he literally just tacked us onto the bottom of his reads. Like literally ... Massive dropped from "towny" to "nulltown" and then DH got added in as "/null" and math and I got plopped in at scummy. No explanation either.

In between his "reads" posts, I dropped a light crumb and noted that I had been proverbially biting my tongue with Ginngie's gambit, because anything which could give the claimed results is incredibly unlikely, as I pointed out. There's also the fact that Math realized something important about the possibility space which puts Gamma on bad footing. And there you have it: potential threats and people he wants to claim mysteriously either move towards scummy in his "reads" or just show up for the first time directly at scum.

[massive]

Gamma dies today, I sort nancy tomorrow

This makes zero sense. Why gambit, get EXCITED about the outcome, and then refuse to follow the results?

You haven't been reading closely have you?

Honestly. Is it not an accurate statement to say:

1. You gambited
2. You got a result (nancy is the only claimed visitor for Tchill who is dead)
3. You are ignoring it to chase something else

Do point out where I am misreading something.

[Ginngie]

I asked "did you target TChill yay or nay"

Not "did you kill Tchill"

It is inaccurate to say that "target equals the kill.

I even saw a townie to fake claim targeting the kill to try and lure the real killer

Also AS SCUM against the gambit myself, we simply just said no.

We "knew" of the guilty, but that didn't matter.

What matters is what I listed.

The reaction is what is important and what I was ultimately looking for

[RadiantCowbells]

Fuck, got distracted and have to leave early. One tonight pinkie promise, I'll be home earlier.

[massive]

I disagree. And I don't understand why no effort was made to even follow up on that.

[MathBlade]

Gamma is obvScum.

Still moving.

I hope Gamma is allergic to my ice cream *grins*

[RadiantCowbells]

Will catch up on flavour when I can.

Civilization Mafia Mafia:

Votecount 3.55:

Gamma Emerald (4): Mathblade, Ginngie, nancy, lime in da coconut
nancy (1): massive
Mathblade (0):
lime in da coconut (0):
Drixx (0):
Grendel (0):
massive (0):
Ginngie (0):
Game Replacement (0):

Not Voting: Gamma Emerald, Grendel, Drixx, Game Replacement

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch.

The day has begun and will end in (expired on 2017-09-17 23:00:00).

Spoiler: Remaining Posts:

Drixx: 59
Ginngie: 57
lime in da coconut: 62
Gamma Emerald: 45
Mathblade: 25
Grendel: 66
massive: 56
Game Replacement: 70
nancy: 47

Still seeking replacement ofr... Game Replacemnet.

[nancy]

I am going away with my girlfriend for a few days and I won't have Internet access while I'm gone.

[Grendel]

@All

I'm not caught up yet But:

Ginngie seems to be claiming watcher in a scenario where one mislynch will win the game for mafia. Let's note that watcher and cop are both powerful investigatives. It's highly unlikely we're seeing both even with the cop having a nerf.

Wouldn't it make more sense for a townie to think they were in lylo at this point then scum would?

Also Gamma's realization/revelation tied to a separate game felt like something Gamma!town would pick up on.

@Math

Gamma's responses to the PR claims are notably different than Rematch and he seems more interested in shading Ginngie than asking questions or finding out the truth. Him being shaken up could be shocked. Gamma's comment about Watcher cop reads like someone who knows too much or is complaining about setup balance for scum. She didn't claim Watcher. This sounds like Gamma rolecopped or guessed.

Can you expand on this meta?

[Grendel]

Gingie is definitely town.

I think should nancy go ahead and full claim. With three big prs dead it should be easy to sus out how if nancy is legit via a claim.

I'll come back tonight and read the last few pages. I'm currently not feeling a Gamma lynch.

[MathBlade]

Let me know when you're caught up so I can address all your questions

[nancy]

Interesting. Grendel why are you trying to sus out if I'm legit when I am/was your top townread? Has your read on me changed since 1152? Why is Ginngie definitely town and why are you asking MathBlade about her meta if you're already convinced of that?

If you could go back and respond to 1329 that would be pretty helpful; if you disagree with my read there I'd like it if you talk about why and what your own read there is in as much detail as you're willing to go into. Gamma Emerald was scum in Kingdom Hearts and made the same kind of meta connection there; I don't think forgetting that it's not LyLo is a particularly good reason for a townread even if you do think that he legitimately forgot.

[nancy]

To be honest I'm starting to feel like Grendel is just opposing whatever lynch I push this game; I don't understand how he's townreading me as hard as he is when our reads have been so different all game and he doesn't seem to agree with anything that I'm doing. Really interested to hear why and how strongly he's townreading Gamma Emerald here and what exactly his reads are right now because very little of his play here makes sense to me.

[nancy]

massive are you still planning on going over reads? I'm out the door soon so it doesn't look like I'll have the chance to talk them over with you if you do but I can at least review them when I get back presuming we haven't lynched by then.

[Grendel]

I didn't Target TChill.
But this rings oddly familiar. Grendel and nancy I ask you to recall the first trustthedeceived game.

This is the first point with a spin.

Gamma Emerald shades my claim by referring to a scum game I played on a different sight where I hastily claimed a guilty on a player for the win in LyLo.

THIS IS okay to think because a guilty in LyLo is always sus, however it was pointed out by massive and Gamma acknowledged this point, that it was not MyLo.

Except I don't see a reason for scum Gamma to pretend to believe that it was lylo to throw shade at you when doing so would look hecka stupid, and undermine Gamma's credibility on the game state.

I think that Gamma not getting the game state right is more likely come from town. At worst its just null.

so with me obviously not doing what I did before, the scum read expressed here:

Honestly I'm kinda shaken up now. Ginngie might actually be my top scumread for now. Still townread you and GR, but I'm feeling doubtful on Math.

Makes no literal sense.

It also doesn't make sense to scumread a player who basically has a guilty outside of MyLo

.

After reading the provided references for the gambit I saw that scum reactions had more to do with the gambiter encouraging other players to claim. With scum accusing the gambiter of role fishing. Gamma's reaction this game was to question your claim itself. He didn't attack you for role fishing like the quoted scum were doing. I agree that scumreading a player with a guilty before lylo is bad. My experience with players suspecting a claimed power role with a guilty is that its usally town error. Though it appears that you're believing otherwise based on Froot's example.

This gambit has only been tried three times right?

[Grendel]

@Gamma

Get back in the game and defend yourself.

@Massive

The burden of role madness games -- everyone starts depending on the roles.

I'm guessing this is a joke?

[Grendel]

Grendel could you talk about where your reads are at with humeaneatingmonkey flipping town please? If you don't have time to talk about all of them then maybe pick ~2-3 that feel most important to you? Your progression on me/Robbnva in particular is something I don't really understand; I'd like to know what changed between 1133 where you seem to have a pretty tentative townread on me and 1152 where I'm your top townread and just your earlier treatment of Robbnva in general where it looks like you're townreading him but have him as a nullread (?) once you put out a readslist.

I thought Rob was town for a while, then I saw he really does retain the same playstle as both alignments. I'd read several of his town games a while back and never checked out is scum games until the middle of this game. Part of my posts later were done with the intention of getting him to stop pushing the same bad case since D1, which I would have attempted regardless what I thought his alignment was.

You were a read based off of your tone+posting style being such a 180 from my experience with scum you. There was a lot of flux in my reads so you/Vedith/Gingie/Gamma were literally the only town reads I had any confidence in. I thought that my reasoning for you/Vedith was the most cut and dry for me with less worlds where scum ya'll exists.

I am reconsidering you currently because I do think that I may have been too hasty to find trusts to work with in a game state where lots of players were not working together.

[Grendel]

Interesting. Grendel why are you trying to sus out if I'm legit when I am/was your top townread? Has your read on me changed since 1152? Why is Ginngie definitely town and why are you asking MathBlade about her meta if you're already convinced of that?

If you could go back and respond to 1329 that would be pretty helpful; if you disagree with my read there I'd like it if you talk about why and what your own read there is in as much detail as you're willing to go into. Gamma Emerald was scum in Kingdom Hearts and made the same kind of meta connection there; I don't think forgetting that it's not LyLo is a particularly good reason for a townread even if you do think that he legitimately forgot.

Why shouldn't I try to sort people via set up when its easy and effective? Why assume that I have the same read on you that I had days ago?

I don't think that scum would play a gambit of that scale... normally. I Especially think her rethoric her rhetoric after coming out was very proud, and enthusiastic. Which imo is coming from town having an "aha" moment.

I want to hear Meth's meta on Gamma so I can compare it for myself. You can give me your meta on Gamma in kingdom hearts too, if you please.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=71688&user_select[]=28404

Meta I am referring to for Gamma.

And on Kingdom hearts respectfully not reading it. Gamma is a hyper poster. By the time I read all that my brain would be mush.

[massive]

The burden of role madness games -- everyone starts depending on the roles.

I'm guessing this is a joke?

Why do you think this is a joke?

[Ginngie]

im bored, hammer GAMMA