Open 697: Tit for Tat GAME OVER SCUM WINS!
- guyy
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guyy Goon
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- Mulch
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Mulch Gotta Go Fast
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- Srceenplay
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Srceenplay Jack of All Trades
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- Lang Buddha
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Lang Buddha Goon
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It would be extra stupid not to mass claim, man. So what exactly are the disadvantages of the advantages I laid out in #512 and #523 which warrant assuming the disadvantages of not mass-claiming, ah? And maybe you should start voting officially on it like I do
HURT: Kop
That'sCode: Select all
[hurt]Kop[/hurt] - for a mass claim
Code: Select all
[hurt2]Kop[/hurt2] against a mass claim
- Lang Buddha
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Lang Buddha Goon
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This can't be it, man. We a PR which might block the actions of the other two and we have a PR which could kill any other PR, and we have a PR that could waste his check on the target that that PR kills. Advantage 1: This doesn't happen. Advantage 2: mafia can't fake claim EoD and instigate chaos. Advantage 3: narrower lynch spectrum. Advantage 4: Extra information due to confirmed alignment (IC) of 3 players, not to mention myself. Advantage 5: narrower night action spectrum for PRs. Advantage 6: coordination of PR night action so that they don't overlap. Advantage 7: No post-game ridicule by the entirety of the site's members for town players. Advantage 8: Hellooo? Nibbles .. wtf, man?!In post 518, ironstove wrote:regarding mass claim: it seems like a bad idea
currently 2 mafia, 3 town PRs, and 4 vanilla left in the game for a total of 9 players.
the mafia will most likely claim VT, and that leaves 6 players that will be claiming VT, of which 2 are fake.
advantage: we can narrow down our decision to find mafia to a 50/50
disadvantage: all PRs have been outed, mafia will night kill a PR, whereas it would be at best 50/50 otherwise for mafia to kill a PR if they guessed randomly for a night kill.
considerations: if we were going to mass claim, I would recommend that PRs simply claim they are a PR and not a specific PR.- Lang Buddha
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Lang Buddha Goon
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The only compelling reason not to do this is because it's a dick move, somewhat a hit under the belt but hey, mafia have themselves to blame for raising that belt up to their necks, alright? I mean in the last game I played I got lynched because someone figured the lack of a night kill was due to inactivity during the silent night phase, and since he didn't see a player post anywhere on the site he figured it was mafia and he turned out to mafia, so, you know, not much to do with scumhunting in-game..- Lang Buddha
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Lang Buddha Goon
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EBWOP: first game, and I was lynched subsequently, given the same reasoning, whatever man.- Lang Buddha
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Lang Buddha Goon
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Advantage 7: Strong town circle will get us motivated to scumhunt, instead of the stuff going on in the first 3 posts of this page. Advantage 8: synergy of all previously mentioned advantages- Srceenplay
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Srceenplay Jack of All Trades
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- WhemeStar
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WhemeStar Survivor
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ironstove Mafia Scum
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Ok from that perspective I can get behind a mass claim under the condition that prs only claim they are a pr and we do a popcorn mass claim I. E. We pick one person to claim first and that person then picks the next person and so fourth until all players have claimed.
But with that said I STILL think mass claiming is a bad play versus simply playing this game. If our vigi shoots again and shoots another town again, then this game is on the vigi for playing like trash and I don't really care because there is nothing I could do about it.
I refuse to choose suboptimal play routes in order to compensate and adapt to someone playing bad. It is not something I'm willing to do.
Like, the mass claim isn't happening today, maybe tomorrow but it's not happening today and you're literally wasting everyone's time constantly fly pushing for it because it does absolutely nothing to solve the game. It only takes us from one state filled with unknowns to another state filled with different unknowns.- Lang Buddha
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Lang Buddha Goon
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- Kop
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Kop Mafia Scum
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I don't know right now, I have seen this happen before but in different circumstances. Mafia lost there backup jailkeeper leaving them with the rolecop and a suggestion that the backup rolecop came out as it was apparently pointless being hidden, so someone came out with being the backup role cop, and I counter claimed it as I was BRC, I got him lynched and he flipped the mafia Rolecop. Leaving the goon in play and LYLO. The person who suggested the coming out was the goon knowing that he can't be found out because he would investigate as vanilla to the real BRC.
I just have a feeling this is a similar scenario, mafia are trying to get roles out in the open and knowing where to shoot because they've lost a role that would help them gather the information that they are now trying to manipulate into the thread without trying to look scummy in the process.You'll Never Walk Alone!- guyy
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guyy Goon
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- Kop
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Kop Mafia Scum
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- kunkstar7
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kunkstar7 Mafia Scum
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Ok here's why we are not massclaiming:
9 players. 3 town PRs. An optimal claim strategy here is for all scum to claim vanilla, thus making the lynch pool 6/9. Then scum knows exactly our PR players and gets free shots off. It's not worth losing power roles for 6/9 lynch pool. That's why we wait a day.Welcome to the Network.- Not_Mafia
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Not_Mafia Smash Hit
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VOTE: Lang Buddha
Reason: JealousyAlso, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?- Lang Buddha
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Lang Buddha Goon
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- guyy
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guyy Goon
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this is L-1 and a terrible vote
can you please at the very least elaborate- Virtuoso
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Virtuoso Goon
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- ironstove
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ironstove Mafia Scum
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Is it still RVS?
- Lang Buddha
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Lang Buddha Goon
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If you feel like the only role left for you to play if you give me the due credit is the fool, man, and I'm not necessarily talking to Kop now, know that you can only be the fool if you don't. You can rise to the level of not a dumbass anytime, just stop being one, you know? Yes you've been one but that can be twisted into appearing as though you're reaction testing, and all will be forgotten, eh?In post 612, Kop wrote:I just have afeelingthis is a similar scenario, mafia are trying to get roles out in the open and knowing where to shoot because they've lost a role that would help them gather the information that they are now trying to manipulate into the thread without trying to look scummy in the process.
Maybe you even get to brag post-game, even belittle my gameplay .. you know, the standard lecture based on the premise that anyone who wishes to be heard needs to act in a manner you perceive as townie.. i get it, alright? There's no other way for you to save face, and the more ppl say it the more you can mindfuck yourself into believing it man, and they like to see you become mindfucked, man, they really do, BUT know that dumb ppl are fun for anyone but me, man, I've seen it all over the world: people like fail compilations.
I believe somewhere, in your mind, you know there is a place, a temple of intelligence and harmony with awesomeness, a-ha, where they don't let bitches who don't want to comprehend a simple truth even if they get chaperoned through all of its facets stay there, because it would start to stink like the rest of the places. I'll be waiting for you at the gate, man, as long as it takes, I promise.
Just vote for a mass claim man, whoever you are, whoever you're voting for, whatever you think you're getting out of forfeiting a massive advantage -- it's not even that, it's that you act like you don't, man, that's driving me to tell you how dumb you are again and again -- in a mafia game and keeping me from hunting scum and telling you to wake the fuck up, you now? It's all there, man, all the arguments, everything, clean, sexy and surgical, man. Like this choreography, eh?
In some convoluted way this guy wants to give the impression that it's ok not to consider my input on the matter, man. As if someone had totally ignored all my posts and asked him for guidance, him..In post 615, kunkstar7 wrote:Ok here's why we are not massclaiming:
9 players. 3 town PRs. An optimal claim strategy here is for all scum to claim vanilla, thus making the lynch pool 6/9. Then scum knows exactly our PR players and gets free shots off. It's not worth losing power roles for 6/9 lynch pool. That's why we wait a day.
Why do people with superlative fakking unlikelihood to be regarded as leaders, the maddafakkas who are objectively lacking the quality to do any good and abstaining from doing harm, THOSE are the bitches in need to act like they represent someone other than themselves, man? WTF, why?! Sabotage the optimal town play, bitch, but don't make it look like someone forces you to or it's someone else's idea, or some ridiculous consensus you need to solidify inside- or push through anyone's mental barriers, like someone totally ignored all my posts and is begging you to provide much needed guidance, so you can make it look like it's ok for you to ignore them, eh?
FoS kunkstar7- guyy
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guyy Goon
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In post 615, kunkstar7 wrote:Ok here's why we are not massclaiming:
9 players. 3 town PRs. An optimal claim strategy here is for all scum to claim vanilla, thus making the lynch pool 6/9. Then scum knows exactly our PR players and gets free shots off. It's not worth losing power roles for 6/9 lynch pool. That's why we wait a day.
here's the thing though
not everyone has to claim
some of the more obvious town players (group A) can be exempt from this, as well as the players we're not really trying to focus on now but who still might be scum. right now that means guyy, mulch, srceenplay
this offers a large enough buffer i think (1/3 of the players) that scum still has to do a bit of guesswork. this is probably fine for two reasons:
1. we're a little overpowered here atm
2. it obfuscates exactly what information scum is getting and allows PRs to draw some conclusions that scum might not be able to just yet
the following players (group B) should, if claiming, only claim PR or not PR:
lang
kunk
not_mafia
the following (group C) should fullclaim:
flubber
kop
ironstove
i find it at least noteworthy that the most suspect (group C) are the ones fighting hardest against a massclaim. even if the points made there are viable or even good, i don't think they're coming from town
lang is right that this sort of strategy, while possibly helping scum, vastly reduces the odds of town PRs fucking up
a PR outside of group A is probably looking to target within group B or C anyway, so this will help narrow that down. specifically, i'd expect vig to target within C, rolecop to target within B, and jailkeeper to target within B or C
scum is likely looking to target within group A (i'd think)
thinking about it this way, i think it benefits town much more than it benefits scum. keep in mind that the goal of scum is not simply to eliminate all town PRs but to win the game. a part of this is getting rid of largely townread players (group A). imo that is often more important than them eliminating PRs. the only exception is that they're likely trying to find jailkeeper pretty hard. generally, though, i think group C not being entirely genuine and is playing to our fears of:
1. lang being scum
2. losing PRs
but we should keep in mind that losing PRs from town fuckups is less likely if we are strategic about it in some way. we do not have to tell scum everything- Lang Buddha
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Lang Buddha Goon
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If I had not proposed the mass claim I guess some fear of me being scum, regardless of how unlikely it would've been even then, would've been warranted, man.- Lang Buddha
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Lang Buddha Goon
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Are you fucking kidding me here, man?In post 622, guyy wrote:even if the points made there are viable or even good - Lang Buddha
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- Lang Buddha
- guyy
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- ironstove
- Virtuoso
- guyy
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- Not_Mafia
- kunkstar7
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- Lang Buddha
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- Srceenplay
- Lang Buddha
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- guyy