Open 697: Tit for Tat GAME OVER SCUM WINS!

[Mulch]

Town here <3

Ill read up tmrw

[Mulch]

UNVOTE:

[Mulch]

Towny

Kunk:

Spoiler:

53 is relatively towny, not a bad point regarding Twyin's post, and more importantly it shows intent to truly analyze as it's a rather subtle thing to pick up on. Can definitely follow them with it too. I also really like 77, specifically the part where he calls out Flubber for criticizing Guyy. Had the same reaction. Unfortunately finding Kunk to be a little bit of a dick trying to critcize all the naked posts but I suppose I can't call that AI. However, 102 I can't even follow his view on this one, Screen's comment was wholly NAI and an atrocious reason to place a vote on. Yet he redeems himself 123 by going above and beyond on this, showing he put effort into reading his ISO to see about this "reaction test." Sure, can come from scum but I think it's slightly villagery in the sense that he has intent to be thorough and not be surface level.

Sesq:

Spoiler:

Honestly I can very easily see Sesq in 107 thinking this because of that glaring red flag by Kunk, lol. I know this is silly but I want to really really townread him for this purity

______________________________________________________________

Nulltown/Town Lean

Screenplay:

Spoiler:

72 from Screenplay is sort of on the surface scummy but honestly not something scum would do. I've been burned with this in the past but I just don't see scum sheeping someone so blatantly with little reasoning. The brutal honesty in 138 and139 is refreshing but I don't follow 138 at all, lol. He just made a relatively towny post. Unfortuantely this level of confidence seems to match his meta. 162 is just pure townyness .

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________-

Null

Wavemode:

Spoiler:

50 matches my thoughts and55 literally exactly what I was thinking. However, 60 feels out of place as a reaction. It was an implied defense of his vote when nobody was really pressuring him anyway.

Flubber:

Spoiler:

92 at first glance seemed really bad and reachy but I suppose I can follow this cause Guy didn't vote at the end of his readslist.

Kop:

Spoiler:

100 is like objetively wrong in the wagonomics and it's a struggle for me to see how he can have such confidence in him being town that he is already basically doing a full on pre flip on opportunistic wolves. Sure, it's possible he can think that he's town for the wagon, but this level of confidence dosen't match the gamestate. I do like how he disagrees with a point though without calling it scummy. You would be surprised how town-based that is in general. I feel like I'm missing some of his posts though that may be significant, so might have to go back on them.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________-

Nullscum/Scum Lean

Guyy:

Spoiler:

The reads in 89 seem relatively forced, especially because Twyin and Raya are in his townreads which makes no sense. They've been far and away the scummiest so far imo and it's strange that he has this PoV. Gotta see his reasoning. And no vote too! 97 is legitimately scummy or a severe misconception bc I could follow his case on him not voting at the end of his paragraph and it didn't seem unreasonable to vote. The weird emphasis on him unvoting dosen't make much sense. 128 is another post where I just have a clash of perspectives, how can you buy that shit, I don't get it lol

Commknight:

Spoiler:

121 is like scum 101, almost wanna snap vote him at this point for this. Will hold on to crucifying him until I get an explanation, though.

Raya:

Spoiler:

54 is bothersome. He says he agrees with the post before but dosen't back it up with a vote and instead leaves his vote on the rvs vote from very early. 86 is just something so obvious to point out, again I can see from a village PoV but is something wolves can easily push as well.

Twyin:

Spoiler:

29 is the first serious post of the game and is a massive reach. I also wanna scumread 61 too just for scumreading someone for anti town behavior but I know this is probably a playstyle difference . 73 is a super obvious point he's poking at with Screen. I guess? I can see town thinking that too, but it's slightly opportunistic.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________--

Scum

Blue:

Spoiler:

Post 67 is honestly not a bad vote in general (volume reads of little scumhunting) but not something I can really see at this early stage in the game. Pretty bad reason to vote here, not neccecarily scummy.

@smoothblue

, what was towny about 89? This is one post I definitely need clarification on. And 159 is so bad and nothing really scummy at all from Sesq. He hasn't been anymore self centered than anyone here

VOTE: Blue

[Mulch]

A feel like your Kunk and Twyin reads are similar but they are on opposite ends of the list.

Not really. Tywin had problems going serious early game with reachy pushes and opportunistic statements, and pushed on one of those obvious things that both dumb villagers and wolves could push on with your sheep comment. Nothing major but I also haven't seen any of their posts stand out, either. I don't want to do volume reads this early but he does seem to be blending in as well.

On the other hand, I really like 77 for Kunk, in which they match my thoughts there and I thought was a really valid point, and 53/123 show an extreme level of in depth scumhunting. Now, good scum can emulate that effort but the dedication is more than most of this game has done, and it shows they are at least invested in what they think, something very hard to fake.

[Mulch]

@Mulch, how is Srceenplay's jump onto the guuy wagon not scummy and opportunistic as fuck? And how is 138 and 139 "brutally honest"?

It's opportunistic in the most basic sense of the word, but in reality it really ins't. Scum usually aren't that audacious to blatantly proclaim that they are sheeping without a reason. I mean, it could be scum. But there is a high chance it isn't, mostly just based on experience. 139 just shows pure openness and a severe lack of caring how they are perceived (this is a good thing) with calling out a scumteam that early.

[Mulch]

And the fact that 168 pings town for you is worrisome.

Quote me where I say that?

[Mulch]

i buy his explanation for now

Here's the big thing-

Where did he actually explain it, lol

and also, why do you buy it?

[Mulch]

what ultimately pushes him closer into town territory for me is how much everyone else rejects what he says

This is flawed logic. It's an easy mistake to make but a lot of people here have been basing town and scumreads just on how quick they are voted or how much the town as a whole is reacting to their statements. Remember, we have 12, they have 3. The vast majority of peopl ehere are town, and it's not out of the question for scum to townsided/bus/distance in situations as well. Town cohesion is one of the most important things to have in order to guarantee a victory, so if we all agree on something, we should be going along with it, and not assuming that it's wrong and scum are jumping on the ideas.

[Mulch]

Oh god I completely forgot about this game. Will catch up tmrw wanted some real time stuff but oh well

[Mulch]

I'm here, ok let's get cracking

[Mulch]

I maintain my position that the blind sheep is a null identifier. #101 is still too emotional of a reaction and he doesn't provide any counter points, so just looks like deflection.

The thing is, this is NAI. Both town and scum want to deflect their lynches. A common misconception is that town don't give a fuck about themselves, which is not true. Plus, this isn't really emoitional.

[Mulch]

@Mulch: In what way do you think that Commknight's analysis is different from kop's? Also if you could clarify your read on sesq that'd be great. I think I'm getting into a place with sesq that I've done before, where a detrimental playstyle is distracting my abiltiy to read someone.

Maybe I'm missing something obvious but I don't see any analysis from Commknight? At least 2 people now have said that he talked about his reaction test and I literally don't see it.


Sesq:

Sesq has been doing a lot of stuff that isn't really AI at all and is more playstyle indicative. His short, non explanatory posts can easily come from both allignments. But when I was following the game and saw his post in 107 it was sort of a lightbulb moment where he had the exact same reaction from me and in a weird way I could follow his reasoning. It was your worst post of the game by far beacuse it felt super opportunistic and obvious, and not very well thought out (just like all the others that pushed on him). This (as a side point) is a sharp contrast to your usually very detailed and well analyzed reads.


I'm having a hard time this game trying to figure out exactly what to do with Screen's comment. I feel like there is a chance he's just a wolf, but tbh I do think it's best to consider it NAI and the fact that so many people pushed on it is so alarming. For everyone voting him: Do you follow their reasoning? Yes, I can follow it, and I think town and scum can easily jump on it as well. But...it's also just something that's so blatantly on the surface scummy that it's pathetically easy for scum to push it, which is why I'm wary of scum pushing on it for an easy push in lieu of actually scumhunting and finding true allignment indicative things.

[Mulch]

I'm sort of scumreading Kunk's analysis of my reads because they sort of seemed to analyze them in a really black and white way that's easy for wolves to fake, like "are they consistent" and "do they match up with my own reads" without really trying to get into my thought process.

It's not a big point cause village can obviously do this too, but it's again one of those things that if occurs often is a problem. Which probably isn't the case in Kunk's particular situation because of the intensity, effort, and critical thinking that they had in their other stuff.

[Mulch]

It gave me the impression that you already had information that you wanted to use to start a narrative.

This is a scumread style that I can easily follow and easily understand with Kunk early day 1. But I want to know if you just sort of glazed over it, and was like, yeah this is way too much and is an overflux of information for this juncture of the game, or if you really looked at it and see if you coulden't really get where they were coming from. I was able to do just that which is why I'm not scumreading them for it.

[Mulch]

i just meant him saying the "slip" was a reaction test and the follow ups thereafter. as i said, you don't have to agree with the process of information gathering or the information actually gathered, but you can't really deny that he contributed something, even if you think it's useless or counter to town interests. i don't atm

Alright, I have a few problems with this. How did you intend to mean this when you said "I buy that explanation." I mean, that's not really a vague or ambiguous statement. It means you agreed with his explanation. I don't see an explanation.

I have a question as well:

Why do you think it's town indicative to just say random things and say it's a reaction test? Don't you think there should be an exact purpose to it and end goal, or do you think just uttering that phrase is getting us closer to the town's interests? And also, don't you think saying it was a reaction test to get out of scummy heavior is something that could very well come from scum? I need to understand how your thinking along these lines, because right now I don't get it.

[Mulch]

So you are basically saying that by Srceen being so opportunistic......he ended up not being opportunistic.

Not at all. I'm saying that the people jumping on him have a good probablity of being opportunistic.

My bad, you said 162 and I mistyped 168. Caring about your appearance rather doing some scumhunting (during the time when the Srceen wagon was forming) is rather scummy imo. That is why I townread Raya because she was unscathed when the pressure was on her.

I am also willing to lynch CommKnight today as well.

I don't get what your saying here. In 162 Screen is questioning a townread on him. Good scum can fake this but in general being worried about why people are townreading you isn't something that is on the front of scum's minds, who would rather just let the townread sit and not bother to parse through how people came to that conclusion in the first place. If they aren't being lynched, scum usually don't care. I really need you to expand on why you think worrying about a TOWNREAD is caring about your experience, because for me it's the opposite

[Mulch]

wait

VOTE: tywin

you're right mulch

I am sort of townreading this because I can easily see his point of view cause of Tywin's last comment. It made no sense. I might join you on this if Tywin's answer is inadequate to my questions.

[Mulch]

@Raya

, I would appreciate some comments on my catch up and subsequent posting and not just responding to random comments in the past. I realize you may have felt like you needed to resolve that and are pressed on time, but I specifically want you to try and defend yourself to what I found was scummy about you. I find it slightly strange that you chose to ignore it after people were generally townreading you (woulden't you be angry?), but I do realize it could be activity based.

[Mulch]

Your first scum read already has inconsistencies...

I don't see it. Where are the inconsistencies?


I also would like to ask why you didn't call out 189 by Kunk which agreed with my reads with a main basis and reason being that they were consistent. Did you miss it, or did you choose to agree with it- and if so, why?

[Mulch]

89 - Nothing. I voted him to see his scum reads, he provided them. I unvoted him. I dont see how you "definitely need" clarification on that.

Why did you want to see the scumreads if you weren't gonna analyze them in the first place? If I follow, you placed a vote to pressure him into giving reads, he gives reads, you unvote. If he had said random things, were you gonna unvote? What I see here are reads that aren't very special at all, so I want to know why you found them satisfactory.

I'd like you to show me the lease self-centered post by Sesq, in your opinion, that provides value.

At this point I'm wondering if you read my catch up except for my read on you. I understand it's a natural action just to care about myself, but weren't you curious if my analysis held up to anyone else, especially because it was so egregrious and inconsistent as you say with you?

I already explained that 107 was an amazing post by Sesq, yes which held value

[Mulch]

I bolded them out in 202...

I saw that and didn't see any inconsistencies. Spell it out to me like I'm 5?

[Mulch]

So why is it honestly not a bad vote in general (if that person isnt scummy in your opinion) if its a pretty bad reason to vote?

Cause it's a shit point to scumread for but I can see townies thinking that it's a good point to scumread for. There's a huge difference between a bad and a scummy vote.

I'll respond to the rest of your stuff when I have more time

[Mulch]

Which is direct contradiction, stating "A common misconception is that town don't give a fuck about themselves".

Not really. When going throughout the game, scum care about how they look. They desparately don't want to show it, but that is integral to what mafia basically is. Wolves want to be perceived as villa, villa don't care about looking villa and they do it naturally. However, both allignments care about self preservation. They don't want to be lynched. In fact, when villa are lynched there is more frustration than when a wolf is being lynched, because they know that they are being lynched for what they know to be the right thing, where it's kind of a wolve's job to be lynched. So town DO care about themselves, like Screen. However, the openeness in their PROCESS, the fact that you are being natural, the fact that you aren't caring how you are perceived in your scumhunting, is totally different. That's much harder to fake by wolves, and deep down at the root that's

impossible

for wolves. When Screen called out the scumteam it indicated that he wasn't showing how he thought his process would look.

I guess I can see where you thought this was coming from, though. But it's completely different.

[Mulch]

I'm really wary of Mulch right now because of this hesitance to go in on any his reads whole-heartedly. Too many places to let himself out if he's pressed on stances.

That's my playstyle. It's completely unnatural and quite frankly scummy to have severely confident reads when you are at post 250. Maybe later in the game, maybe not. Even when villagers are "confident" they really aren't, and they are just projecting confidence to get people to agree with their wagon choices. I'm trying to be brutally honest here and not try to tunnel people just on their bad qualities; I want to consider all facets of it. If I see something towny, I'm gonna call them towny. If I see someone scummy, I'm gonna call them scummy. EVEN if I townread someone and I see a scummy thing I'm gonna put it out there. The people that scumread people and then build cases about it and ignore all alterior evidence as wolves or misguided/confirmation biased townies. That's not how the real mafia world works. So when I say, yes this is scummy but a villager is too, this IS me trying to keep my options open. I'm not committing anything at this stage in the game. I'm gonna point out things that are bad, and if I can see a villager do it too I'm gonna point it out. There's NOTHING here that only wolves can do that villagers can't do at this point in the game and vice versa. Hell, even the stuff I'm doing could theoretical be made by wolf!Mulch. You can only have leans and stuff like that. In particular, some of the stuff I'm pointint out is highly conditional and subject to change. The opportunistic and going after obvious stuff isn't a problem when you only do it once, it's a problem if it's a repeated habit, so it's osmething to keep in mind. The stuff on Screen is like that, and all of this changes if Screen actually flips wolf. What's extremely tricky is the stuff where you can see wolves jump easily on it but you can also see villagers doing it to, like Screen's stuff especially if he is villager. There is nothing damning there, just something to note and a realization that it isn't really...towny. The stuff that's REALLY bad is where you just literally can't see where someone is coming from, or they are grasping at straws. Which is the basis for some of the questions I'm asking people in the catch ups.

[Mulch]

There's just too many instances of giving everyone passes.

This is a separate problem altogether and problem the only part of your suspicion on me that I don't get. I've been extremely thorough this game and put a shitton of effort into it, and I definitely don't think I've let anything by if I can help it. Point me to these, please.

[Mulch]

I wouldn't exactly be angry actually. You can't always be townread and I would actually be more worried if everyone town read me than if someone scum read me.

This feels disingenous to me. I don't think I've ever felt more worried when everyone townread me; it usually means I'm being nightkilled and I'm doing my job. And I am always upset with lot's of scumreads. This reads to me as something that Raya may think town think but isn't really what town think.

[Mulch]

I don't know how this makes me look scummy...

This makes you look scummy beacuse you voted him for a lack of scumhunting but then didn't even take the scumhunting into consideration when you unvoted him. The reads were nothing special, nothing to unvote him on. I will repeat again, if he had just done random reads, would you have unvoted? To me, if your thinking to vote him to make scumreads, you would have to like the scumreads to unvote. And they weren't bad but they weren't good at all.

[Mulch]

The ironic thing about all of this is that Screen could actually be a wolf, lol. This is why you can't full out scumread everybody that has pushed. And even if he is a villager, there are at least 2/3 villagers pushing it as well. Such is life

[Mulch]

The ironic thing about all of this is that Screen could actually be a wolf, lol. This is why you can't full out scumread everybody that has pushed. And even if he is a villager, there are at least 2/3 villagers pushing it as well. Such is life

Make up your mind.

I don't know, Screen. Your questioning of a townread was villagery so I think your most likely a villager. Everything else, is like pure NAI. Making up your mind this early=not possible

[Mulch]

Bah

Screen, what do ya think of Blue right now

[Mulch]

Who do you scumread

[Mulch]

159 seems so reachy, you disagree?

[Mulch]

It feels like you are trying to control the flow of the game.

Indeed I am. Am I doing a good job?

[Mulch]

It feels like you are trying to control the flow of the game.

Indeed I am. Am I doing a good job?

You being self aware doesn't sit to well either.

Why?

[Mulch]

It seems like you are to comfortable.
I remember you not being in control or know what's going on. Taking shots pushing buttons.
Not doing that here.

Ha. I'm actually really glad you said this because it means that my new playstyle is working. I've been trying new and new things every time and I'm hoping to hit on one that means that I'm not scumread as town anymore like I always am. I wanna be open and consistent and cooperable, and I want to show confidence but not tunnel. I sort of like the meta read here though because if you didn't know that I was changing my playstyle it would be natural to think something was different.

However, if you want I can also show you scum games where I am the same way

[Mulch]

@Raya

can you go into more detail about your Kop and SmoothBlue reads?

[Mulch]

mulch you have said "wolves" or some variant 13 times

like i almost had to go reread the setup to make sure i wasn't just stupid

It's interesting really, there are different terminologies for each site.


ToS (horrible site, technically my home site, never go there): Mafia, Town
Mafia universe: Wolves, Villagers
Mafiascum: Town, Scum

[Mulch]

Ugh this game exists. Don't even know what the prod timer is but just in case prod dodge

[Mulch]

OUCH WHO POKED ME

[Mulch]

Mulch's poorly articulated/contradictory posting

What the fuck?In what way has it been poorly articulated or contradictory?

[Mulch]

Lol I've made it a fucking point this game to go into painstaking detail and thoughts on all of my posts.

If you can't bring up explicit examples of this- and I'm here right now for some time for me to go back and forth- I'm locking you as scum. Because that is the OPPOSITE of what I've been trying to do.

[Mulch]

For as much as you post you should at least give me the respect back of fully reading my wall

I read your fucking wall, you brought up one thing. I'm talking about the other stuff. What is poorly articulated?

[Mulch]

Referencing Sesq making detailed posts

Wait, what the FUCK? This is a

bold-faced

(and I'm bolding those words for emphasis) lie. Quote me.

[Mulch]

VOTE: Flubber

Your gone

[Mulch]

Ugh, I'm reverting back to this form of Mulch now. How about I phrase it better:

can you go into more detail about what the fuck you mean

4

UNVOTE:

[Mulch]

Ugh I need to reread the last few pages at some point. And I realize I'm getting into spampost!mulch and I am letting you all know that I am aware and am gonna try and condense my posts. I'm sorry but Flubber has just enraged me lol

[Mulch]

I don't get how you can follow the reasoning of the worst post in the game.

Which post?


And, you said OTHER posts by mine were poorly articulated? Which ones?

[Mulch]

Your=Kunk...

[Mulch]

No, show me the little things. I want to see, because so far your 0/2 and you made a huge basis of your top 3 scumread on me on it. 0/2

[Mulch]

Do you actually not see the difference?

[Mulch]

VOTE: tywin

[Mulch]

Therefore the quality and quantity of what he brought home has no relevance to the original statement.

Is this your way of saying you didn't care about the quality of his reads?

[Mulch]

VOTE: tywin

Why?

For someone trying to put their thoughts into actual words, this vote is pretty shit.

Have you read the fucking game?

[Mulch]

Therefore the quality and quantity of what he brought home has no relevance to the original statement.

Is this your way of saying you didn't care about the quality of his reads?

No.

I cared about the quality of his reads, but he did what I asked, therefore I unvoted him.
You are basing too much emphasis on the vote to have the meaning. The vote only applies the pressure.

What was the point in the pressure if you didn't care about the reads?

[Mulch]

Prefer tywin but can switch to comn if neccesary

[Mulch]

Want a Lynch

[Mulch]

Someone do something

[Mulch]

Screen is viable what are you doing

He's very possibly scum

[Mulch]

Let's lynch Tywin

[Mulch]

Twyin is at L-2, Screen is at L-4. As far as I can tell. I hope we get a lynch off before day ends

[Mulch]

Therefore the quality and quantity of what he brought home has no relevance to the original statement.

Is this your way of saying you didn't care about the quality of his reads?

No.

I cared about the quality of his reads

, but he did what I asked, therefore I unvoted him.
You are basing too much emphasis on the vote to have the meaning. The vote only applies the pressure.

What was the point in the pressure if you didn't care about the reads?

Can you fucking read at all? See the bold.

If you cared then why didn't you analzye them?

[Mulch]

You unvoted him even though he made a poor post???


And I'm making a fuss because it still makes no sense.

[Mulch]

VOTE: Kop

[Mulch]

Screen and Lang get no credit on him.

That being said we lynch out of wagon today, correct

[Mulch]

Me

[Mulch]

Vote someone

[Mulch]

Screen and Lang get no credit on him.

Why

The lynch was inevitable

[Mulch]

VOTE: Kop

Reasons?

You led the lynch on the counterwagon

[Mulch]

I see benefits and disadvantages. Ambivalent

[Mulch]

Was about to vote you for that and then I started thinking, hmmmmmmm lol

[Mulch]

Huh

[Mulch]

I guess we're doing it!!!

Ngl it's gonna be awesome to add some excitement lol

[Mulch]

And kop is like...really, really town

Why

[Mulch]

Mulch, can you point me to one post where you think Kop isn't gamesolving?

198 and who cares?

[Mulch]

No

[Mulch]

Mulch if 198 is the best example you have of kop not scum hunting you really need to re think your read

I think he's doing a ton of scum hunting. But results are results and he pushed the main wagon away from the mafia's best role. And he pushed Sesq right now which is an easy push.


But, maybe.


Question: Why the hell did you just unvote on Lang's recent awful post?

[Mulch]

He did hammer a scum role cop d1

There's room for the vig to clean up stupidity

The lynch was inevitable. The only people that get credit are the ones who started it and pushed it, not the two at the end.

[Mulch]

so in a way you could say I'm the 4 IC

Implulse wants to vote him badly

[Mulch]

lmao no

[Mulch]

Kop, Flubbernugget, Srceenplay, Sesq


These are the 4 lynches for today. I don't want to do Screen or Sesq yet.

[Mulch]

Vote Count!

TywinL

(7): Wavemode, Guyy, Raya, Mulch, kunkstar7, Srceenplay, Lang Buddha

(LYNCH)

Srceenplay

(3) Kop, Flubbernugget, Srceenplay

Sesq

(1): Smoothblue

Wavemode

(1): Sesq

Not voting

(0):

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch!

Deadline: (expired on 2017-09-09 12:51:12)

Smoothblue is on holidays and is VLA until monday
Keep it fun!
Let me know if there is a mistake in my Vote Count. I will fix it ASAP.

@mod Screen is listed twice

Fixed

[Mulch]

l-1

[Mulch]

impulse to hammer

[Mulch]

I made a mistake on on the vc cause you were listed as off wagon and on wagon

[Mulch]

I want Kop, Flubber, Sesq today.

Ie Kop.

Hammer gets no credit but is still better than being off wagon on most dangerous scum.

[Mulch]

However, if Kop---Fluber is not an option, Lang is next best...I think

[Mulch]

I can do Flubber

[Mulch]

Lang's pretty scummy

[Mulch]

VOTE: Flubba

[Mulch]

voting with sesq flubber and kop

Is that all 3 off wagon lmao

[Mulch]

I still think Kop is most likely. W/etho

[Mulch]

VOTE: Kop

[Mulch]

VOTE: Lang Buddha

Reason: Jealousy

Dying of laughter

[Mulch]

GUYY I AM SUSPICIOUS OF YOU NOW

[Mulch]

Let's lynch someone

[Mulch]

He's a mod

[Mulch]

Vote count.

[Mulch]

VOTE: Flubber

Oy lol

[Mulch]

Just got back of holiday so will catch up properly tomorrow.

I'm a PR.

Fullclaim

[Mulch]

Guyy why aren't you pressing him to full claim after what Llama did?

[Mulch]

This allows him to alleviate responsbility for his claim. And any role that can be protected from kills would be roleblocked....

[Mulch]

Why say that then

[Mulch]

301
Screen

[Mulch]

VOTE: Screenplay

I don't buy this

[Mulch]

I'm not scum so your just affirming yourself to be more likely to be scum by accusing me of being scum right after I accused you and when you didn't bring up anything about it before and trying to reach into past experiences to rationalize it which is what scum does a lot.


I don't buy that you softed power role and then didn't have a power role. When you say that that means power role.

[Mulch]

And mulch you are just using circular reason to say nothing right now.

Where did I use circular reasoning

[Mulch]

And mulch you are just using circular reason to say nothing right now.

Where did I use circular reasoning

772

Saying "I'm not scum so your scum because I scum read you then you scum read me without ever bringing it up before except for the past makes you scum"

That's not what I said, this is a lie. I used a run on sentence, not circular logic

[Mulch]

mulch go next

Not pr

[Mulch]

@Not Mafia

go next

[Mulch]

Lang claimed vanilla

[Mulch]

Wow which fucking idiot power role didn’t claim

[Mulch]

i meant mulch

No, I'm not...

[Mulch]

You really put yourself in the maybe pile?

I think mulch and kunk should be together somewhere in between maybe and definitely as an either/or

VOTE: screenplay

Lynch this PLEASE

[Mulch]

fucking bullshit “circular logic” and the bs false power role claim

[Mulch]

fucking bullshit “circular logic” and the bs false power role claim

You are the one with the false power claim idea.
If you honestly believed that why continue to push/shade throw all game?

Guy pointed it out, it wasn’t my idea at all.

Your literally saying falsities lmao

[Mulch]

It's L-2 lmfao

[Mulch]

Why did you lie about my circular logic if you are town?

[Mulch]

I didn't lie.
It was a run on bullshit circular argument

Show me the quote and give me where it's circular logic. Bold the parts that's circular

[Mulch]

That’s not what I said. Quote my words exactly and bold what’s circular

[Mulch]

1) I'm not scum.

2) You are more likely to be scum because you accused me only after I accused you and not before

3) You are more likely to be scum because you are reaching into past experiences to rationalize your scumread when you didn't push the scumread of me before.

What's circular about this?

[Mulch]

4) I am town.

Not it starts all over again.

Your #3 does not make any sense.

What dosen't make sense? How is it repeating over and over again?

[Mulch]

HOw? lmfao

[Mulch]

Why didn't you push me until I pushed you? And you still are wrong about the circular logic

[Mulch]

Why Flubber? Why not screenplay?

Flubber is guyy's push and prior to the claiming stuff I felt like he had the best read on the game. Screenplay's outbursting here in the last two pages didn't really ring as scummy to me, and prior to that he was null to me as nothing he's said has been notable.

i don't think i like this post...

mulch does this look like scum to you

Ye. The screen read is pointless and it feels like he knows that flubber is a mislynch and is trying to pin the blame on you when they flip, plus it's in general an easily faked way to read someone.

Another reason to go Screen over flubber, imo.

[Mulch]

Why didn't you push me until I pushed you?

@Screenplay

[Mulch]

What do the PRs think, hmm?

This is what the response is?? Guyy please tell me you see how shitty this is.

This seems like buddying.

[Mulch]

Probably could be easily talked into that.

Where did it change? Were you just hoping to scumread me to discredit me?

[Mulch]

Why didn't you push me until I pushed you?

@Screenplay

Probably could be easily talked into that.

Where did it change? Were you just hoping to scumread me to discredit me?

I don't know where you are getting any of this.
I have never Town read you or said that I do.

Early game you never pushed me, and just now you didn't have me in your vote list until guyy questions you on it

[Mulch]

Holy shit both of you need to calm the fuck down

[Mulch]

Keep calm and vote srceenplay

[Mulch]

I have a really bad feeling that the last power role not claiming is going to bite us in the ass

[Mulch]

It’s actually infuriatingly dumb

[Mulch]

You were both being dumb and misinterpreting each other.

[Mulch]

ok. well then, lang- i apologize

I have a really bad feeling that the last power role not claiming is going to bite us in the ass

i think i can kinda see it both ways but elaborate

Late game scum now have the opportunity to counterclaim them OR say screen is scum they could say “oh, I’m actually a power role” now and draw out the counterclaim

[Mulch]

Good for owning up. Why did you hold out lol

[Mulch]

because i think scum having a 50/50 shot of failure is better reason to divert scum away from our two outed PRs than a third claim


mulch, if one of the other two pr claims were lying, which do you think is more likely?

They literally can’t be lying . It would be the worst throw of all time. I would say kop gun to the head because he was at risk of lynch.

Another benefit of you coming out is that if one of them by some reason are lying they will counterclaim (if there was a second hidden power role)

[Mulch]

wavemode parked his vote on Tywin then popped back two times saying he's got shit to unload, man, but never did. Super scummy imo, and Not Mafia didn't help shit, but not sure if scummier than actually calling Tywin town.

How is that super scummy at all, he just decided to vote park his best mafia teammate for the entire game? Who does that? Lol


On the other hand ur right he’s just been useless so far

[Mulch]

it is feasibly constructive in any case. throwing doubt on them is further incentive for scum to leave them alone

which is what's been driving me most of the day

nothing is rooted in psychosis. (well, jury's still out on that one i suppose). town players are perfectly capable of influencing the scum kill. that was the point of the groups too ultimately

I can see what your saying I guess but it was better for you to reveal. Imagine if someone counterclaim you at lylo

[Mulch]

wavemode parked his vote on Tywin then popped back two times saying he's got shit to unload, man, but never did. Super scummy imo, and Not Mafia didn't help shit, but not sure if scummier than actually calling Tywin town.

How is that super scummy at all, he just decided to vote park his best mafia teammate for the entire game? Who does that? Lol


On the other hand ur right he’s just been useless so far

He could've hopped off with a day and a half to go, man, that's what. The way he made it sound something status-quo changing was coming out of him.

Status quo changing

What is this lmfao

[Mulch]

I’m not voting the first vote on the rolecop wagon that had ample opportunities to change today. Tomorrow, maybe. Screen today

[Mulch]

VOTE: srceenplay

don't know if the last one actually counts

nvm

So, for real, man. What's the case on Screen, hmm?

Bad power role soft, bad push on me, bad defense to me. Look in iso for details

[Mulch]

Mulch was falsely claiming that my premature hammer had no merit, man, and he was acting kind of strange, almost theatrical right before I hammered. Town would have no reason to act like that knowing we have 1 and a half day to go and perhaps a claim to wait out.

You hammered him when the lynch was inevitable. You gain zero credit and the more you keep insisting that you do is bad. What theatrics dude? Quote my posts

[Mulch]

VOTE: lang

Your full of shit

[Mulch]

Because I'm Town. Tunnel me would not end well. That's pretty straightforward

Was this the alleged soft?

Yerp

[Mulch]

VOTE: screen



Bad idea to vote Lang, momentary anger .

[Mulch]

There is no case on me.
The L-1 test you made to hammer is a little unfair. Flubber is not voting. If he shows up, where do you think that vote is going? Basically consider me L-1 now.
I can't believe you people see me getting on a role cop wagon as scum. I haven't played much with you guys but that and voting myself is something that I do not do.

You were the second to last vote when the momentum was strongly in favor of his lynch.

[Mulch]

VOTE: Screenplay

I don't buy this

What is it that you don't buy?

I told you when you entered I thought you might be scum. Now you voting me without reason is confirming that thought.

This is the bad push. I said you never pushed me early game, stop twisting my words.

[Mulch]

Want a Lynch

Someone do something

For some reason I thought the first one being all caps.
Why would me defending my obvtowncred be scummy as opposed to you trying to downplay it, hmm? Not a townie thing to deny a townie his membership in the townblock, so why do you do it, man? This was not just a hammer so don't compare it with other setups and shit, eh?

I don’t know what these words mean Lang . Explain in English

[Mulch]

If you have a case against me compile it now, basically follow my lead and mimic my constructive undertaking, Mulch, man. Stop being theatrical, eh?

I wasn’t theatrical day 1 and you don’t deserve towncred that you say you do. Those are the bad things you’ve done

[Mulch]

VOTE: Screenplay

I don't buy this

What is it that you don't buy?

I told you when you entered I thought you might be scum. Now you voting me without reason is confirming that thought.

This is the bad push. I said you never pushed me early game, stop twisting my words.

How is that a push. I just reiterated what I said early game.

Fine, a shade. Whatever. You still scumread me without believing in it, because I wasn’t in your lunch list, brought up rationale of early game to justify it, and then called a run on sentence circular logic .

And then the power role soft

[Mulch]

If you have a case against me compile it now, basically follow my lead and mimic my constructive undertaking, Mulch, man. Stop being theatrical, eh?

I wasn’t theatrical day 1 and you don’t deserve towncred that you say you do. Those are the bad things you’ve done

Why would you say Want lynch now with 1 and a half days to go, man? and I do deserve all the cred I risked so much to get. Now unless you have a reason to deny me that cred you should not mention this again at this juncture and concentrate on finding stuff that is in fact alignment indicative about me and others. We'll probably have to let the PRs decide the lynch. There's still enough time to make cases and analyze but not enough for you to act like this, you know?

I brought it up because you JUST FUCKING ASKED ME

VOTE: lang

[Mulch]

You just blamed me for sharing my thoughts on you when you explicitly asked me for them. Explain that lang? ???

[Mulch]

You both can fuck off too, I don’t understand a fucking word you say Lang and you chronically lurk Screen and give no reasoning. You deserve each fucking other and I HOPE you never play with me again

[Mulch]

You just blamed me for sharing my thoughts on you when you explicitly asked me for them. Explain that lang? ???

Why would I attempt to explain something that has a false premise, man?

Show the false premise without being your annoying ass character. ENGLISH

[Mulch]

If you have a case against me compile it now, basically follow my lead and mimic my constructive undertaking, Mulch, man. Stop being theatrical, eh?

You said this I explained my thoughts and then you asked me why I brought it up.??

[Mulch]

You quoted it, eh?

What?????

[Mulch]

What does you denying me my towncred have to do with me telling you to contribute to the cases of potential lynch candidates, man, instead of repeating the former without any justification, eh?

Let’s get some timeline facts.

1) you randomly spout bullshit about how I was acting theatrical and how I’m “denying you towncred” out of the blue
2) I call you out on it
3) you asked me to give you my case on you
4) I do
5) You blame me and say it’s bad I’m giving pointless cases, let alone that you did one on step 1 and asked
Me for one on step 3


Do you see the problem?

[Mulch]

If you have a case against me compile it now, basically follow my lead and mimic my constructive undertaking, Mulch, man. Stop being theatrical, eh?

I wasn’t theatrical day 1 and you don’t deserve towncred that you say you do. Those are the bad things you’ve done

I don't see a reason for town to parade their readiness to lynch the way you were. At that stage, similar to this one but moreso, we needed cases, and you failed to deliver.

The day was boring and voted had been sitting for a while, what the fuck do you mean “parade readiness to lynch” like that’s some fucking foreign thing

[Mulch]

Ugh, I guess I can see where your coming from. But I didn’t parade the lynch at all. But you could interpret it that way if you haven’t played on this site for a while I guess or played with me

VOTE: screen

[Mulch]

So you could see how I have problems with your case on Screen maybe too, ah? It is centered around you being town and a supposed soft claim which nobody except you acknowledges as such. Do you have something more or something on someone else, man, because if you don't that's pretty scummy in my book . Also feel free to come up with reasons not to lynch Flubber any time, and this goes for all.

How is it centered around me being town, use quotes, please. And even if it was how the fuck is that scummy? And everyone I’m pretty sure that’s voting screenplay is acknowledging the soft.

[Mulch]

Why would you vote screenplay without believing the most damning evidence

[Mulch]

7 hour

[Mulch]

I've done a full switch and now want to:

VOTE: Lang

1008 is indescribably atrocious and I think it's scum trying to pocket town. We don't have much room to fuck around here

[Mulch]

Why are you town, Screen?

[Mulch]

Why are you town, Screen?

That's a silly question.
I would rather not get started with bs with you again.
Maybe someone else can come and bounce thoughts around.

Why is that a silly question?

[Mulch]

Do either of you have reads on Not_Mafia?

I would say that he's the towniest out of all of you right now, but only barely. He's been quite literally useless and unreadable since he replaced in, but his predecessor vote parked a vote early on Twyin and never let go even if given opportunities. It's incredibly rare for scum to do that (they tend to vote park on town and not have natural read progression, but doing that on a buddy is insane), let alone day 1, and let alone with the best scum role.

Of course, at this point in the game you have to consider everything.

[Mulch]

I think that if Screenplay is town, there is a decent chance Not_Mafia is scum.

[Mulch]

Your argument is shit and it was forced reasoning

[Mulch]

I think I've played with NM before and iirc he had lurked as Town.
Other than that I don't have a read on him. I thought wave was scum from tone and gut. I reread most of day 1 and still felt the same.

Kunk I am back and forth on. Early game I thought you were playing with to much information. Lately I have not got that feeling.

Mulch on reread I thought I found some contradicting statements but thinking about it I might be wrong.
I thought he was Town reading me when he came in. Then the next day had me on a lynch list. Then after I claimed said he doesn't Town read me any because he thought I was PR. (That was my perspective on read through but not sure now after double checking it.)

Lang hammered. I was going off the assumption that scum wouldn't buss the role cop. Didn't make sense. Now it's a known fact that both scum had to have bussed. My thought on that would be if scum can get Town cred from lynching role cop scum can make up for not having a role cop by having a mass claim.

Fixed some errors.

I'll also add that waves vote was early. He then shaded people without voting and disappeared for most of the day.
I personally think it is reasonable to think he was distancing at first and then with the time away, he didn't have time to naturally get off the wagon.

Later tonight I’ll check some time stamps

[Mulch]

I can wait for you to elaborate on why you townread him, man, it's alright, eh?

I don't, I scumread you more

[Mulch]

Pretty sure it's not mafia and screenplay.

[Mulch]

I can't see screen not scum and I can't see mafia not scum with that hammer

[Mulch]

So you think we've been doing an elaborate bussing charade this whole time?

Correct

[Mulch]

BTW kunk the jailkeeper gives no clears because they could jail the mafia not doing the kill. So say screen and mafia were the mafia, if they jailed mafia last night it dosent clear him cause screen could have done it

[Mulch]

I mean mafia if you can't give a good reason for that hammer... Your playstyle can't be an excuse for everything

[Mulch]

If we lynch scum today, we can get kop's target and THEN if there's a nightkill, that person is confirmed town. So say we lynch mafia, they flip scum. You can jail screen. If there is a kill, that means screen is confirmed town, and they would hold the hammer between me and kunk. If there's no kill, we lynch screen and if the mafia no killed to frame ie screen flips town, the jailkeeper STILL has a half chance to pick between me and kunk to save the game again

[Mulch]

That is my reasoning

It's not really good enough imo

[Mulch]

Anyway let's see what kop says. Votes before that are confirmed scum

[Mulch]

I don't think frustration is a good enough reason to lolhammer at that stage of the game

[Mulch]

You can't quantify the complexity of mafia choosing who will do the nightkill. So I don't know how your getting 1/2. But I do understand what your saying. Can give us clues

[Mulch]

It's not 1/2. Say you and mafia are scum. You were objectively more towny, so you would have done the kill. Do even if mafia was jailed 8 times,.could be 0/8.



Your assuming each of the scum will be doing the kill 50% of the time. When in practice it's impossible to quantify

[Mulch]

It's not 1/2. Say you and mafia are scum. You were objectively more towny, so you would have done the kill. Do even if mafia was jailed 8 times,.could be 0/8.



Your assuming each of the scum will be doing the kill 50% of the time. When in practice it's impossible to quantify

No I'm saying literally just Night 3. This only fits for that specific night.
Say Kop jailed you Night 3.
If Kop jailed you Night 3, you could not have made the kill since ironstove died. Therefore in my (kunkstar7's) eyes - confirmed scum has to be between not_mafia and srceenplay since

someone

had to make the kill.

What does that have to do with the jail lmfao. That should be irrelevant. 2/3 have to be scum from your Pov lool

[Mulch]

What does that have to do with the jail lmfao. That should be irrelevant. 2/3 have to be scum from your Pov lool

How is it irrelevant, the jail blocks all actions so it should block the person from being able to kill, and therefore my statements follow? I understand 2/3 but I already explained that I feel 1/2 is easier to figure out than 2/3 - I'm just walking through how I got the 1/2 idea.

I'm town. There is only one other town. If I pick any two people, there has to be at least one scum.

This has nothing to do with the jailkeep

[Mulch]

Also how is 50-50 better than 67/33

[Mulch]

... A false selection because it says nothing about whether they are town. If not mafia or screen were paired with either you or I, we are definitely doing the nightkill... Which means they wouldent get towny points. Although, maybe they do slightly. But not enough to take them out of pOE

[Mulch]

I'm staring to feel like kunkstar is scum and is just chatting blatant shit to confuse us

Me thinks you and screen are scum and trying to get me to turn against kunk

[Mulch]

Idk tho. Let's see what kop says

[Mulch]

Did you read my post?

Ok srceenplay - here's the thing, if you were not scum, which of myself and Mulch is Not_mafia's partner?

[Mulch]

Skimmed Mulch ISO. Will do him tomorrow. I might be second guessing again.

Uh huh

[Mulch]

I think that screen and not mafia should cross vote. Obviously from my Pov I know a least one is scum and possibly too, but from am objective standpoint unless you think kunk and I are the mafia team it's a good idea too

[Mulch]

It's not out of the realm of possibility that mulch and kunk are scum together.

I like the idea from kunk though that at the very least nm couldn't have killed so shouldn't be the vote for today.

Dying of laughter

[Mulch]

Lol so both of you have eliminated not mafia as the lynch choice for today. OK...

[Mulch]

I already told you that I want you and Not_Mafia to cross vote. What do you want from me?

[Mulch]

Not giving reads.
That to me implies that you think you have already won.

I already told you my reads. What do you need clarity on?

[Mulch]

Don't try to pocket me

[Mulch]

Mulch: These are my reads
Srceenplay: Why aren't you giving reads?

Give something.
Again if you think I'm scum you have also got to be looking for the other scum as well unless you plan on the game ending here.

You and Not_Mafia

[Mulch]

but I don't think scum would reach out that much in aid to put something over the line from a scum POV,

You think scum don't push people? lol

[Mulch]

but I don't think scum would reach out that much in aid to put something over the line from a scum POV,

You think scum don't push people? lol

So far I have seen you laugh off two town.

Your smart, you should be agreeing with me here... I think. You can't think scum don't push people. Which is what Kop is townreading you for.

[Mulch]

When did I say you don't give up as town/scum?

[Mulch]

If I am right why didn't you refute that bullshit?