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Chip Butty · Post Post #57 (isolation #0) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:25 am

Hi all. First game back after more than a year away from the site. Feel like crap atm so will read through again later and decide who i want to vote for.

Chip Butty · Post Post #112 (isolation #1) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:08 pm

WM: probtown for reasons others have stated. Not int in lynching him today. Instaclaiming miller is reasonable play for town.
Monkey: probtow. Concerned a bit with the early train on him.
Mulch: edging town but only just.

Most others neutralish atm.

Getting scum vibes from Maria, mainly because fluff, advice etc but no detailed reads. Yeah it is d1 but a reluctance to go on the record always looks suspicious, esp since she is encouraging others to give rads. So...

VOTE: Maria

Chip Butty · Post Post #113 (isolation #2) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:18 pm

Actually, forgot to say Misere also townish. The more i read Toranaga the more he seems slightly scummy, though that's just an impression, can't put my finger on anything yet...

Chip Butty · Post Post #123 (isolation #3) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:39 am

In post 114, Toranaga wrote:I like Chip's posting here in terms of being villagery. I am townreading all the people he is townreading, so he should come around on me pretty soon

That does absolutely nothing to make me feel better about your slot. Sorry.5

Chip Butty · Post Post #126 (isolation #4) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:46 am

Havo: Has responded to being called out with sarcasm rather than scumhunting. In two minds about this slot. Some players do like to take their time with reads early in the game, and we do have a 14-day Day...

Could easily be persuaded to vote him unless he coughs up some original reads or analysis at some point. For now, just watching...

Chip Butty · Post Post #135 (isolation #5) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:52 am

In post 132, Toranaga wrote:it's probably havo;blue;someone

In post 134, Toranaga wrote:Havo, it's really a 4 or 5 in the sense I think you're around 50-60% likely villager. Which is <rand villager already, but not a confident read.

Perhaps I'm being overly harsh, but this seems...inconsistent. Esp over a span of just 14 mins.

Chip Butty · Post Post #145 (isolation #6) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:08 am

I don't know which i dislike more: the Toranaga slot's abysmal grip on how probability works, or the Havo slot's abysmal defence. But it looks like a Havo lynch might actually happen, so:

VOTE: Havo

Chip Butty · Post Post #146 (isolation #7) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:09 am

That's L - 2, I believe...

Chip Butty · Post Post #148 (isolation #8) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:10 am

I don't think sarcasm is an adequate defence...sorry...

Chip Butty · Post Post #151 (isolation #9) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:24 am

In post 149, Havo wrote:
In post 148, Chip Butty wrote:I don't think sarcasm is an adequate defence...sorry...
What's the accusation against me exactly?

That I'm scummy? That I haven't defended my self well enough?

Yeah, those.

Sorry, but someone has to go and there isn't any solid evidence on D1. Not sure there is any value in dragging D1 out to a two week talkfest. We just have to go on people's reactions, and yours have been anything but reassuring.

Chip Butty · Post Post #158 (isolation #10) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:42 am

In post 153, Havo wrote:Shutting down discussion is inherently Anti Town play.

Period.

Discussion is fine but all you keep saying is it's too early to discuss anything because a few players haven't posted much and too early for reads. What if we all took that approach? We'd be twiddling our thumbs until nightfall. How about anandoning your lofty principles and actually giving some reads, instead of just complaining about how unfair it all is?

Chip Butty · Post Post #245 (isolation #11) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:20 pm

In post 237, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 30, humaneatingmonkey wrote:What's your meta-analysis on him from what games, Mulch? Even if scum don't know if there are millers in the game, this can be a scum gambit that has been premeditated. I don't get a town-angle where you would trust that immediately. So you don't think a lynch of WhyMafia is beneficial?
If he flips miller then we waste our day. If he flips scum, then that would be beneficial. How about we analyze and bring in discussions before we actually proceed with this lynch?

I know you won't see this until you finish reading through, but how about next time reading the whole thread first THEN commenting?

Chip Butty · Post Post #249 (isolation #12) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:26 pm

About the Havo soft: If he really is a PR then drawing massive attention to himself by obstinately refusing to provide reads and doing all that complaining was a terrible way to play it. Also the alleged soft was so obvious he might as well have just hardclaimed a big PR. I agree we need to see a fullclaim at this point.

Chip Butty · Post Post #278 (isolation #13) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:44 pm

In post 257, Havo wrote:
No I haven't played it terrible.

HOW THE FUCK CAN I PROVIDE READS WHEN I DONT HAVE ANY WORTH POSTING YET?!?!?!?!?!

What can't you people understand about that???

If I provide a read list it will come across as forced and not genuine. BECAUSE IT WONT BE!!!!!!!

Why are you not worried about read lists from other posters????????

See, the thing for me isn't just the lack of reads, it's that you don't seem to be interested at all in asking people questions about their posts or scumhunting in general. Your focus seems to be entirely on the votes on you and how unfair it all is, and that seems scummy to me. After 250+ votes, are you really saying you've seen nothing worth following up on?

Chip Butty · Post Post #290 (isolation #14) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:54 pm

In post 278, Chip Butty wrote:After 250+ votes, are you really saying you've seen nothing worth following up on?

I meant 250+ posts, of course. And virtually no RVS.

Chip Butty · Post Post #324 (isolation #15) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:47 pm

Man, that was epic! If you guys are scum v scum, my hat is off to you.

Chip Butty · Post Post #325 (isolation #16) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:51 pm

In post 264, Toranaga wrote:, and your reads list doesn't look very great and my position on it is probably terrible.

Probably? How could you not be sure?

Chip Butty · Post Post #327 (isolation #17) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 8:35 pm

In post 326, Toranaga wrote:
In post 325, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 264, Toranaga wrote:, and your reads list doesn't look very great and my position on it is probably terrible.
Probably? How could you not be sure?
I'm self aware enough to know when I'm supposed to be town read harder.

Everybody always believes they should be townread harder. It's the 'probably' that caught my eye. It just seems...odd.

Chip Butty · Post Post #348 (isolation #18) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:42 am

In post 344, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 249, Chip Butty wrote:About the Havo soft: If he really is a PR then drawing massive attention to himself by obstinately refusing to provide reads and doing all that complaining was a terrible way to play it. Also the alleged soft was so obvious he might as well have just hardclaimed a big PR. I agree we need to see a fullclaim at this point.
My question is why does Mulch and Chip want a fullclaim from Havo? What if he has an important role? Like jesus, know how scummy that sounds for wanting a fullclaim out of havo and its only the D1, jesus fuck.

VOTE: Chip

It's simple. Havo said that lynching him is the worst thing town can do. That is, he is claiming the strongest PR. So he is already going to be a prime target for NK. So there is no greater risk to town if he actually specifies what he is claiming.

Atm he has made it clear he is seeking the protection from lynching that a claim usually affords, while dodging the risk of being cc-ed that comes with a specific claim.

Thus a specific claim has upside for town and no downside. Leaving things as they stand just opens up the possibility of letting scum.havo cruise. Downside for town with no upside.

Chip Butty · Post Post #352 (isolation #19) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:49 am

In post 343, Sergtacos wrote:
Nah, I like doing what I do better lol. sorry

Yeah nevermind. Just thought you might be one of those people who likes to be considerate of others, even from behind the shelter of internet anonymity. Guess not. No biggie...

Messed up the quotes but whatever...

Chip Butty · Post Post #353 (isolation #20) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:59 am

In post 347, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 310, Mulch wrote:longer deadlines benefit scum.

And more importantly, I feel like getting Havo to L-1 will elicit a claim from him.
Funny how you want a hard claim from him and not from everyone else? we might as well say fuck it and announce all of our roles.

So far, Whymafia= Miller

Anyone else want to hardclaim?

See how stupid this is? Why are you so demanding for Havo's full claim when there's still 2 weeks ahead of us for D1! Like I would expect a hard claim in D3 and/or D4, maybe D2 depending on the situation but wth.

VOTE: Mulch

This is just dumb. Havo is being asked to hardclaim because he softed (though not at all softly) a strong PR. Others haven't. Duh.

Chip Butty · Post Post #358 (isolation #21) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:10 am

In post 355, Sergtacos wrote: Your argument is still not convincing. You hopped, demanded a full claim, parked your vote on Havo when he soft claim a PR. That is pinging me mafia big time. I wish i could vote you and mulch at the same time.

Yeah, you're basically talking to the hand at this point. I don't have the time nor inclination to repeat the argument i made. vote stays where it is until we get a fullclaim or someone even scummier sticks their head up.

Chip Butty · Post Post #360 (isolation #22) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:14 am

In post 356, Sergtacos wrote:
Ok lets supposed Havo hard claims, and he says he's a cop, a doctor, or some shit, what now? Still going to park your vote on Havo? See the problem here is that you're not thinking throughly here. If he hard claims, he could either be lying or telling the truth, so which is it? What would you determine after Havo hardclaims? I'm getting shitloads of scummy vibes from you and Havo seems innocent to me.

Uh, ever heard of counter claims? If nobody cc-ed then yeah i would remove my vote.

Chip Butty · Post Post #361 (isolation #23) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:15 am

In post 357, Sergtacos wrote:I mean, I don't want anyone to actually soft claim or hard claim in D1 because we need help from the power roles and we can't really have an advantage against the mafia if our power role players die.

Chip Butty · Post Post #363 (isolation #24) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:17 am

In post 357, Sergtacos wrote:I mean, I don't want anyone to actually soft claim or hard claim in D1 because we need help from the power roles and we can't really have an advantage against the mafia if our power role players die.

Let me try that again...

What you are not understanding but which i have already pointed put is that town.havo hal already made himself a prime NK target by softing he is the strongest town PR.

Chip Butty · Post Post #372 (isolation #25) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:39 am

@Thor : yeah I'll leave my vote where it is for now. The havo bw did get to L - 1 already, maybe it will again.

MariaR: my vote was on her before i switched to havo, partly cos nobody seemed interested in a MariaR lynch back then. I don't know what to make of her strident defence of Havo yet.

Skitter: took Havo to L - 1. Since I'm suspicious of Havo I'm trying to work out if it was town.skitter genuinely voting or scum.skitter bussing.

I need to look with fresh eyes later, but open in principle to lynching either. Will return to this later.

Btw not tunneling Havo. He might be town with a poor defence. But I'm stull leaning fairly strongly to him being scum.

Chip Butty · Post Post #373 (isolation #26) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:43 am

Doh. i should have read through the ninja posts.

Chip Butty · Post Post #374 (isolation #27) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:45 am

VOTE: unvote

Pending cc-s of course.

Chip Butty · Post Post #381 (isolation #28) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:18 am

In post 365, Thor665 wrote: If he's a powerful investigative role - scum's best option is to use PRs that will effect his investigation (e.g. roleblock) because he will likely be protected.
If he is a powerful protective role scum's best option is to kill him.

So why should we help scum sort their best play?
.

This is fine from a Havo is town perspective, but from a Havo is scum perspective the point was to deny him the shelter of a vague false claim.

Moot point now probably.

But, you know, if you're a cop don't draw attention to yourself. If people want a few reads give em a few reads to get them off your back, and then you don't need to claim either soft or hard.

Chip Butty · Post Post #383 (isolation #29) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:24 am

@Thor: Incidentally, why did you take that hard Havo is town perspective there? Did you hardread him as town?

Chip Butty · Post Post #402 (isolation #30) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:18 am

In post 401, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Explain what a loyal town cop does.

When typing "Google" is just too much freaking effort...

Chip Butty · Post Post #405 (isolation #31) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:34 am

In post 402, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 401, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Explain what a loyal town cop does.
When typing "Google" is just too much freaking effort...

On second thought, i withdraw the sarcasm. I'd be interested in hearing this too.

According to the wiki, the loyal modifier means the role only gets a result when acting on a player of the same alignment, thereby lending it an investigative aspect. So, loyal cop is an interesting concept...

Ninja'd by hem. Yes...i see...

Chip Butty · Post Post #406 (isolation #32) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:45 am

If i squint just right, i can almost see a Havo-Thor-bumtaco ST...

Chip Butty · Post Post #586 (isolation #33) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:22 pm

Okay, have read through the new stuff.

@Thor: you are pushing a skitter lynch quite hard. Could you please summarise the case against him, as you see it?

Chip Butty · Post Post #588 (isolation #34) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:35 pm

Loyal cop usually wouldn't make sense, but might make sense in a game with a town miller, at least from the perspective of GM-amusement. Whereas cop can't distinguish between mafia and town miller, loyal cop can - mafia inv is blocked but town miller inv returns guilty. I'll have to check, but i think Havo reported confirmation that a miller inv by him would return 'not town', which sounds slightly off to me. Afaik, it should return mafia.

Anyway, i think hem is right and we should let Havo live until tomorrow. Btw hem is my strongest townread atm.

Chip Butty · Post Post #592 (isolation #35) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:40 pm

In post 587, Mulch wrote:154 was bad.

Yeah but not crushingly bad. I'm just wondering if there is more to the case than that. Cos i prob wouldn'twant to lynch on that alone.

Hmmm i see skitter has just voted me. Interesting...

Chip Butty · Post Post #601 (isolation #36) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:50 pm

In post 596, skitter30 wrote:And he voted him to L-2. And kept on indicating he wanted a Havo lynch after the claim. Your point?

What i indicated i wanted was a hardclaim. As soon as Havo gave that up, i withdrew my vote.

Why aren't you concerned about the people still on Havo, if this is such a big issue for you?

Chip Butty · Post Post #606 (isolation #37) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:18 pm

In post 21, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:VOTE: Humaneatingmonkey

Stay safe Thor; Irma looks pretty brutal.

In post 130, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Can we get an L-1?

Fykus is lurking hard. This is literally it, so far...

Chip Butty · Post Post #607 (isolation #38) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:19 pm

Sorry, meant BBT. Checking Fykus output now...

Chip Butty · Post Post #608 (isolation #39) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:28 pm

Fykus: on the low-volume side but not lurking. Meh-ish. Lean town.

Chip Butty · Post Post #609 (isolation #40) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:34 pm

In post 576, Toranaga wrote:
vote: skitter

if you're a villager, vote this with me

In post 600, Toranaga wrote:pro town move my ASS!

ehhh I kinda like skitter too lol

can we just lynch misere please

???5

Chip Butty · Post Post #611 (isolation #41) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:39 pm

In post 562, Toranaga wrote:yes it doesn't 'make sense' but this is a mafiascum game. this site has mods doing funny things with the mechanics just to fuck with us, I swear I played a game by an old MS mod that literally had a miller and no cop LOL.

In post 579, Toranaga wrote:
In post 572, Mulch wrote:
In post 570, Toranaga wrote:PRETTY MEH ON CONTENT

your content is pretty meh

I don't like a lot of your posts. But your big back and forth with me was towny
it was. maybe I'm being shit, IDK, this is my first game on mafiascum. I know what the community looks like anyway, so I shouldn't be too bad here.

You seem to have strong views about what MS games are like, for someone playing his first game here.

It might just be posting style, but you continue to ping me quite hard at times.

Chip Butty · Post Post #612 (isolation #42) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:01 pm

@skitter:

Just because i unvoted Havo doesn't mean i don't suspect him, it just means let's wait until tomorrow, as I've already said. I've also already said why i wanted a hardclaim, and i stand by that.

Re: scumteam. Havo, as above. Thor because he seemed to be trying a little too hard to shift focus onto you and MariaR. Ironic, huh? Taco because i think it's possible he was running a chainsaw defence against me. Ie attacking me to infirectly defend Havo. But also probably because he was annoying me. Hey, I'm only human (monkey, please don't eat me).

Tbh after posting that i thought Havo-Thor-Tora would have been better.

Also, by saying i had to squint to see it, i was indicating that it wasn't a strong suspicion for ST.

Finally, after thinking through the implications of a miller / loyal cop combo I'm less suspicious of Havo. If he's faking it, it's not too shabby. Otoh the loyal part might be a defence against a possible cop cc...

Chip Butty · Post Post #616 (isolation #43) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:10 pm

@Tora: you've voted misere twice without reasons and included him in a possible ST. what's with the hardon?

Chip Butty · Post Post #619 (isolation #44) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:17 pm

In post 617, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Will wait for a votecount before voting the largest wagon.

25 pages in and no lynch yet. The shame.

VOTE: BlueBloodToffee

Chip Butty · Post Post #621 (isolation #45) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:57 pm

In post 620, Toranaga wrote:I want to lynch misère cause I thought her two posts are >rand scum

That is pure scummy zero-content BS. What, specifically strikes you as scummy? At the time of their posts all you said was you thought their read on monkey was too good to come from town. What else, if anything, do you have, cos that's lame.

Misere needs to post more...

Chip Butty · Post Post #622 (isolation #46) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:03 pm

In post 613, skitter30 wrote: I think I want this more.

VOTE: Tor

I'm increasingly sympathetic to the idea of a Tora lynch today.

Chip Butty · Post Post #623 (isolation #47) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:15 pm

[HEM]
[WM, Mulch, Skitter]
[Thor, Misere, Fykus]
[MariaR, Taco, Havo]
[BBT, Tora]

Chip Butty · Post Post #629 (isolation #48) » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:20 am

In post 627, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:
Mod, can we get a VC please?

In post 628, Virtuoso wrote:VC

LOL.

Chip Butty · Post Post #631 (isolation #49) » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:12 am

In post 630, Thor665 wrote:
In post 626, Thor665 wrote:The Skitter case is the post Mulch pointed out paired with the wagon on Havo being filled with and on slots I otherwise townread more. Seriously, you think 0 scum voted in that one? *especially* if Havo is town but even if he's scum? Nah.
@Chip

Yeah, it seems a bit thin. I don't think #154 was all that bad, since i was thinking the same thing. As for the Hava bw thing i think I'll delay judgement and see if he makes it through the night. Besides, i liked my interaction with Skitter recently, even when she was voting me. It kind of felt honest. Not buying, at this point in time.

Chip Butty · Post Post #657 (isolation #50) » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:56 am

Nobody on the skitter bw is higher than neutral in my Rangerlist.

Chip Butty · Post Post #707 (isolation #51) » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:37 pm

In post 705, Toranaga wrote:you guys should stop calling me 'tor' when there's someone called 'thor' playing

alright I'm going to actually work in this game now

If you don't start delivering on these promises you keep making, I'm gonna start calling you 'Gonna'...

Chip Butty · Post Post #710 (isolation #52) » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:43 pm

I can't say I'm thrilled with the company I'm keeping on the BBT vote.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: MariaR

Chip Butty · Post Post #755 (isolation #53) » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:00 am

I'm not clearing Havo until we've heard from everyone D2 and there's been no cc / cop report.

Chip Butty · Post Post #764 (isolation #54) » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:46 pm

In post 756, Thor665 wrote:That's fine - we aren't lynching him till then either, so it doesn't matter whether you wish to suspect him or not until then.

I completely agree. Just a reminder to people that he isn't cleared yet.

Chip Butty · Post Post #810 (isolation #55) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:39 pm

In post 809, Toranaga wrote:
In post 172, Mulch wrote:This game is moving fast, this is incredible.
I hate this from mulch. it's a scummy thing to be noticing. I also hate all of his reads in this page. hmmmm.

also

vote: chip

You're only up to post 172 when the game has passed 800 and you're voting already? That's scummy enough for a vote, but i wanna stay on MariaR for now so you just get an FoS.

Chip Butty · Post Post #812 (isolation #56) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:42 pm

I'd like to hear MariaR's opinion of Tora's recent just now vote on me...

Chip Butty · Post Post #813 (isolation #57) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:43 pm

In post 811, Toranaga wrote:I didn't want to stay on skitter but sure I deserve being scumread by the person I'm voting for anyway

I've been scumreading you most of the game, so you're the one OMGUSing lol

Chip Butty · Post Post #815 (isolation #58) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:45 pm

How do you even expect to be taken seriously when you are more than 600 posts behind the play, and you're voting?

Chip Butty · Post Post #817 (isolation #59) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:49 pm

We're at 800+ dude. You're at 172. Do you even have electricity back then?

Chip Butty · Post Post #818 (isolation #60) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:51 pm

Do you have to enter your posts on punch cards back in 172? Lol

Chip Butty · Post Post #819 (isolation #61) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:52 pm

You made us wait so long, and now you're delivering so little...

Chip Butty · Post Post #820 (isolation #62) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:53 pm

Try to catch up to us before nightfall, m'kay?

Chip Butty · Post Post #823 (isolation #63) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:55 pm

You made my day, dude. That was so hilarious.

Chip Butty · Post Post #824 (isolation #64) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:57 pm

In post 821, Toranaga wrote:I'm in 4 games LOL

I'll be caught up man. yes I know it's dumb to read me going over 172 etc.

Are you from the distant past in those games too?

Chip Butty · Post Post #835 (isolation #65) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:31 pm

Only 534 more posts to catch up! Go tiger! I hear the IBM PC has been invented in your current era.

Btw: Are you going to make Mexico pay for this enormous wall you're constructing?

Chip Butty · Post Post #844 (isolation #66) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:22 pm

In post 837, Toranaga wrote:but I'm halfway through the game chip

this was mildly funny a couple of hours ago when I started working on the game, now you're just being silly

I agree, if by 'mildly' you mean 'hilariously'. Anyway, yes it's getting old. You what I was gonna do? I was gonna wait til you caught up with us, and then post 'tl;dr'. Hilarious, huh? I'm a bad person.

Don't forget to stop reviewing when you hit your wall!

Chip Butty · Post Post #845 (isolation #67) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:24 pm

@Fluff police: I'm only posting fluff to amuse Tora while he completes his Herculean task. It's NAI, m'kay?

Chip Butty · Post Post #847 (isolation #68) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:30 pm

tl;dr

No, but seriously I'll read through a bit later...

Chip Butty · Post Post #848 (isolation #69) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:31 pm

/fluff

Chip Butty · Post Post #853 (isolation #70) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:08 am

@Thor & Mulch: Why don't you two just agree to ignore each other for a while? This is just cluttering up the thread and prob not helping find scum.

Chip Butty · Post Post #854 (isolation #71) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:43 am

In post 849, Toranaga wrote:just vote fykus with me

I'm fine ending the gameday now even :O as long as we lynch fykus or someone I poe'd down as a good lynch

I've read through your wall and it's...not terrible. If you're scum you're definitely dedicated. I'll take a look at Fykus's ISO.

Btw the reason I've been in a rush today is I've only been playing mafia recently with shorter Days, not more than 3 days. Two weeks seems mind-crushingly long.

Chip Butty · Post Post #855 (isolation #72) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:47 am

I'm not discounting the possibility that you're scum with MariaR. I need to go back and check a few things.

Chip Butty · Post Post #856 (isolation #73) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:54 am

Oh, you're slightly wrong about my push on Havo. I didn't want a lynch, I wanted a fullclaim. I said that before, but i guess you didn't see it in that 900-post catchup.

Chip Butty · Post Post #857 (isolation #74) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 1:55 am

We'll see if there's a cc or realcop inv. Even a rolescan.

Chip Butty · Post Post #862 (isolation #75) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:26 am

In post 81, Fykus wrote:not caught up yet but about to start work again in a min so ill be posting from mobile from that point.

mulch, wm and toranaga are my town reads.

suss on rob and monkey.

VOTE: monkey

also just to note ive seen wm shoot his wad early when he had a d1 claimable role before so im inclined to think hes town here too.

So Fykus, can you please link us to the game (s) you are referring to in the bolded bit?

Chip Butty · Post Post #863 (isolation #76) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:30 am

In post 861, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 856, Chip Butty wrote:Oh, you're slightly wrong about my push on Havo. I didn't want a lynch, I wanted a fullclaim. I said that before, but i guess you didn't see it in that 900-post catchup.
But curious though, why a fullclaim on D1? Why did you want to pressure Havo so bad D1 to get a fullclaim?

This has been discussed already. Sorry, not going to type it out again. You're gonna have to go look...

Chip Butty · Post Post #864 (isolation #77) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:33 am

In post 343, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 245, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 237, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 30, humaneatingmonkey wrote:What's your meta-analysis on him from what games, Mulch? Even if scum don't know if there are millers in the game, this can be a scum gambit that has been premeditated. I don't get a town-angle where you would trust that immediately. So you don't think a lynch of WhyMafia is beneficial?
If he flips miller then we waste our day. If he flips scum, then that would be beneficial. How about we analyze and bring in discussions before we actually proceed with this lynch?
I know you won't see this until you finish reading through, but how about next time reading the whole thread first THEN commenting?
Nah, I like doing what I do better lol. sorry

Just so you know, this just bit you on the ass.

Chip Butty · Post Post #866 (isolation #78) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:47 am

@Sergtaco: Nevermind. If Fykus has been caught in a lie, do you want to jump on his wagon with us?

Chip Butty · Post Post #869 (isolation #79) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:52 am

Any particular bits?

Chip Butty · Post Post #872 (isolation #80) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:58 am

How do you feel about this Fykus stuff? If he can't link to a game to back his statement, is that lynchable?

Chip Butty · Post Post #876 (isolation #81) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:02 am

In post 862, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 81, Fykus wrote:not caught up yet but about to start work again in a min so ill be posting from mobile from that point.

mulch, wm and toranaga are my town reads.

suss on rob and monkey.

VOTE: monkey

also just to note ive seen wm shoot his wad early when he had a d1 claimable role before so im inclined to think hes town here too.
So Fykus, can you please link us to the game (s) you are referring to in the bolded bit?

In post 873, Mulch wrote:
In post 872, Chip Butty wrote:How do you feel about this Fykus stuff? If he can't link to a game to back his statement, is that lynchable?
What statement

^ in bold..

Chip Butty · Post Post #880 (isolation #82) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:04 am

In post 874, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 866, Chip Butty wrote:@Sergtaco: Nevermind. If Fykus has been caught in a lie, do you want to jump on his wagon with us?
Putting Fykus in L-2

VOTE: Fykus

Hmmm...don't you want to wait to see what he has to say first?

Chip Butty · Post Post #885 (isolation #83) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:07 am

I hope Fykus doesn't mean he literally saw wm shoot his wad. That would be...disturbing.

Chip Butty · Post Post #888 (isolation #84) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:11 am

Can we focus on Fykus please?'

Chip Butty · Post Post #890 (isolation #85) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:15 am

I don't want to risk him getting hammered without a chance to link to a game.

Chip Butty · Post Post #891 (isolation #86) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:15 am

I guess now we play the waiting game.

Chip Butty · Post Post #893 (isolation #87) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:55 am

In post 892, Mulch wrote:The game exists

The waiting game?

Chip Butty · Post Post #896 (isolation #88) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:51 am

In post 894, MariaR wrote:
In post 812, Chip Butty wrote:I'd like to hear MariaR's opinion of Tora's recent just now vote on me...
Why me out of everyone? I don't think it's great per say but nothing bad

Because my vote is currently on you, and I'm wondering whether to stay or move to Fykus. Your answer was kind of meh, but meh seems to be your thing, in a too-cool-4-school kind of way.

Chip Butty · Post Post #897 (isolation #89) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:54 am

In post 881, Mulch wrote:
In post 879, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 875, Mulch wrote:
In post 874, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 866, Chip Butty wrote:@Sergtaco: Nevermind. If Fykus has been caught in a lie, do you want to jump on his wagon with us?
Putting Fykus in L-2

VOTE: Fykus
Why are you worried about saying this when you weren't even worried to lol hammer last game?
I can't let people know i'm putting him in L-2?
No, I'm saying it's scummy your doing it.

I can't help thinking this is an irrelevant side issue. Taco might well be scum bussing his buddy, but not because of this.

Chip Butty · Post Post #902 (isolation #90) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:33 am

@Taco: I told you before, I don't want to risk hammer until he has a chance to say something. This unholy rush you're in is pinging me.

Chip Butty · Post Post #909 (isolation #91) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:50 pm

Thor's vote takes MariaR to L - 2...

Chip Butty · Post Post #912 (isolation #92) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:12 pm

In post 903, Toranaga wrote:I think fykus is scummy regardless of him slipping an incoherent meta read or not. just the fact that he added that meta read is already scummy IMO

I'm not really following you there...

Chip Butty · Post Post #913 (isolation #93) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:15 pm

In post 900, Virtuoso wrote:
VC 1.17

Lynching

MariaR
(4): Chip Butty, Mulch, BlueBloodedToffee, Misère

Fykus
(3): Toranaga, WhyMafia, Sergtacos

skitter30
(2): Fykus, Thor665

BlueBloodedToffee
(2): Sergtacos, humaneatingmonkey

Chip Butty
(1): Havo

Toranaga
(1): skitter30

humaneatingmonkey
(1): MariaR

Not Voting
(0):

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch

The day 1 deadline is in
: (expired on 2017-09-24 15:12:59)

Mod Notes
: Keep it fun.

In post 910, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 909, Chip Butty wrote:Thor's vote takes MariaR to L - 2...
So two wagons have L-2. Cool\. Fykus, you're at L-2.

Uh, Fykus only has 3 votes...

Chip Butty · Post Post #914 (isolation #94) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 4:21 pm

Actually, that vc is wrong...it shows Taco voting twice.

Chip Butty · Post Post #919 (isolation #95) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:39 pm

In post 918, Mulch wrote:Maria or Miseré wagon>Fykus

Wot? Misere doesn't even have a wagon. You and Taco must be getting your shit from the same dealer.

Chip Butty · Post Post #920 (isolation #96) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:44 pm

In post 916, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 915, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 914, Chip Butty wrote:Actually, that vc is wrong...it shows Taco voting twice.
Way to ruin a reaction test

And yes it was a reaction test. Honestly i thought i was the first person to vote on fykus. let me check again.

LOL. If you thought you were the first to vote fykus, and nobody has voted him after you, how could you possibly think he was L - 2?

Chip Butty · Post Post #922 (isolation #97) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:46 pm

Okay guys, put down the bong. This is getting ridiculous.

Chip Butty · Post Post #924 (isolation #98) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:49 pm

In post 921, Mulch wrote:
In post 919, Chip Butty wrote:Misere doesn't even have a wagon
We were mulling it over last night :shrug:

Would you be opposed to it?

"Mulling it over", huh?

Well, I'd prefer to stay on this Fykus thing for now. Apart from being low activity, Misere hasn't really pinged me...

Chip Butty · Post Post #925 (isolation #99) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:50 pm

In post 918, Mulch wrote:Maria or Miseré wagon>Fykus

In post 923, Mulch wrote:We have 7 days. What's so wrong about thinking to have a Misere wagon?

I misunderstood you. I thought you were saying Misere had a wagon bigger than the Fykus wagon.

Chip Butty · Post Post #927 (isolation #100) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:04 pm

In post 926, Mulch wrote:That's incorrect mathmatatically lol

No it isn't. That's a greater-than sign.

I happens to be very good at mathmatatics lol.

Also, put down the bong.

Chip Butty · Post Post #929 (isolation #101) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:12 pm

In post 928, Mulch wrote:.. I'm agreeing with you dude lol I"m not a fucking idiot

Okay, let's focus. I'll think about the Misere thing...

Chip Butty · Post Post #933 (isolation #102) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:27 pm

In post 932, MariaR wrote:VOTE: Misere

Seems I don't have a choice since I don't sr the other wagon.

Scummy Hop-on of the Year nominee.

Chip Butty · Post Post #934 (isolation #103) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 8:32 pm

In post 930, Havo wrote:I could do a Misere lynch

Seems kind of casual for someone who gets so worked up whenever he collects a vote.

I'm looking forward to your cop report on D2 when you don't get NKed. I've already bought popcorn.

Chip Butty · Post Post #937 (isolation #104) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:03 pm

In post 936, humaneatingmonkey wrote:I'm really sorry for my disengagement. I'm gonna come back to regular gaming soon. I'm just in deep with two projects.

Sorry to hear your engagement got broken off, and I hope you got the ring back. Good luck with your two "projects".

Chip Butty · Post Post #939 (isolation #105) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:38 pm

In post 938, Toranaga wrote:the fykus' wagon is people I'm strong townreading and myself. it's too bad maria and mulch don't wanna go there...

Seems a bit weird to hang that much on it. It's not that strong a case yet, which is why I am still holding back. Oh, and MariaR's last post.

What do you make of that post btw?

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:11 pm

In post 767, Fykus wrote: im starting to come round on the "havo is telling the truth" argument. also tr'ing monkey now too.

Why, and why?

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:38 pm

In post 81, Fykus wrote:not caught up yet but about to start work again in a min so ill be posting from mobile from that point.

mulch, wm and toranaga are my town reads.

suss on rob and monkey.

VOTE: monkey

also just to note ive seen wm shoot his wad early when he had a d1 claimable role before so im inclined to think hes town here too.

Intro post. Mainly notable for claiming to have seen WM shoot his wad early. Waiting for link.

In post 85, Fykus wrote:Me

First to respond to the question 'Who thinks Wm is town?'

In post 94, Fykus wrote:Skitter is scum: confirmed. Every game with me shes scum lol

RVS joke

In post 106, Fykus wrote:I thought the same kind of thing but about rob. Then he replaced out.

Mariar go back and read the last few pages and try get some

Asking MariaR for reads

In post 108, Fykus wrote:Dont be discouraged toronaga, the day will unlikely drag on to the deadline. Depending on peoples votes itll probly only be a week

Advice to a new guy at the site

In post 173, Fykus wrote:
In post 164, MariaR wrote:Hello? Why do we have Havo at L-1 7 pages in when there clearly softing PR. Get off this wagon the fact it picked up so fast with no counter wagon is red flags all over.
If you think Havo is scum we can come back later. Let's vote the band wagon jumper.

VOTE: Chip
How is chip a wagon jumper but skitter (the one that put havo at l-1is not?

VOTE: skitter

Voting the L-1 jumper instead of the L-2. Nothing wrong with that.

In post 174, Fykus wrote:
In post 171, skitter30 wrote:
In post 157, Havo wrote:L - 1.

This is where I'd normally say go ahead and lynch me, cause town could do worse.

But this time town could literally NOT do worse.

Lynching me is the worst thing town could do.
I actually missed this. UNVOTE:

This feels fake. How could you not of noticed that post? Your vote on havo felt opportunistic and i didnt call out on it in hopes someone would hammer (potentially revealing you both as scum)

Calling out Skitter, whom he is already voting.

In post 198, Fykus wrote:Here comes tacos there goes the sensible discussion. :p

Joke.

In post 414, Fykus wrote:I think havos lying. The claim is convenient, his overreaction to the whole ordeal seems really disingenuious.

None of this matters though so ill hold off on my vote until tomorrow

I agree

In post 432, Fykus wrote:
In post 418, Mulch wrote:
In post 414, Fykus wrote:I think havos lying. The claim is convenient, his overreaction to the whole ordeal seems really disingenuious.

None of this matters though so ill hold off on my vote until tomorrow
Why dosent this matter, wtf?
We have to wait til tomorrow when hes inevitably not nightkilled and gives us a guilty result on someone that may not be a guilty cause scum might have a rb or jk

Agree with the thrust of this.

In post 437, Fykus wrote:Also the "soft claim" was the equivalent of sky writing

Exactly.

In post 439, Fykus wrote:Also you can hardly call it one of the most powerful roles. Its weak af

Disagree, in a game with a miller, esp. But not a scummy view

In post 510, Fykus wrote:
In post 497, Havo wrote:
In post 484, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Don't you think that if the Miller is part of your "faction" (alignment. it's weird that the word faction would be used here.), you'll still get regular results regardless? It's a Miller. Now do you see why your claim does not make sense?
No, I still get a guilty on the Miller. Would show up as Not Town.

It's like I said earlier. The Miller is the fly in the ointment. Otherwise I would have just been a reg Cop.

I got confirmation on that.
The fly in the ointment would be a scum rb or a jk of either team

Still not seeing the significance of the miller-LC interaction. But neither did most people.

In post 767, Fykus wrote:itll give people a chance to catch up.

im starting to come round on the "havo is telling the truth" argument. also tr'ing monkey now too.

Again, why? But he is hardly the only one to fail to give supporting reasons, and he hasn't made a habit of it.

I think overall the issues with Fykus are low activity and the WN-wad claim. Let's wait and see what he has to say, but he's actually not looking very scummy to me. Of course, I'm viewing this as someone who shares his suspicion of Havo.

Tora? Anyone?

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:43 pm

That's Fykus's entire ISO, btw...

Chip Butty · Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:41 am

In post 945, Toranaga wrote:alright chip, the problem I have with fykus' posting is that a lot of his more townie thoughts are actually thoughts other people have before him. it's not hard to just sheep someone else's read and make it your own is it. I do enjoy the skitter vote here out of everything else, and I do think the meta read is scummy regardless of him having played that game with WM or not.

It's kind of hard to distingish sheeping from just agreeing on such low volume. And low volume can be cos of RL stuff. Besides, the jk/rb stuff in relation to Havo's claim is his own. It's not strong. He can't be accused of fence-sitting either. He is taking definite stands for and againt, for which he can be held accountable later.

Also, it should be noted that he didn't say he played in that game with WM, just that he saw it. And I don't see why just doing this meta read is in itself scummy.

I'm kind of losing interest in the Fykus thing for now.

As for Misere, I can't help noticing you have a thing for low-volume posters, who aren't around much to defend themselves. Scummy, much?

Chip Butty · Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:42 am

By 'It's not strong', I meant the sheeping accusation.

Chip Butty · Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:50 am

I gotta say, Tora-MariaR-Havo wouldn't shock me.

BBT is being more enigmatic than I like.

Thor is emitting huge amounts of wind, without saying anything incisive or particurarly useful.

Chip Butty · Post Post #952 (isolation #112) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:46 am

In post 951, Toranaga wrote:I'm townreading most of the big posters if you didn't notice

Uh, how does that counter what I said?

Chip Butty · Post Post #953 (isolation #113) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:48 am

@Thor: It would probably be more useful to Town if you were to summarise the top 3 most useful / original / incisive things you have posted.

Chip Butty · Post Post #954 (isolation #114) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:53 am

@Thor: A lot of your output just seems to be pissing contests over who has the maddest mafia skillz.

Chip Butty · Post Post #957 (isolation #115) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:29 am

In post 956, Toranaga wrote:
In post 952, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 951, Toranaga wrote:I'm townreading most of the big posters if you didn't notice
Uh, how does that counter what I said?
it explains my POV. if you think I'm pushing for easy mislynches, well, I wasn't the one pushing top wagons all game like you for instance.

So, your POV is to Townread the big posters and attack the low-volume guys? That was pretty much my point.

Also, nice try at deflecting back at me.

Chip Butty · Post Post #958 (isolation #116) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:38 am

@Thor:

Okay, you got to 2 out of three. I'll read through to verify.

I don't think it matters who fired the first shot between you and Mulch. To be fair, it takes two, but Mulch has 196 posts to your 50, so he's had plenty of time to fit a lot other stuff in too.

Your penchant for contesting every little point to the bitter end makes me think you are Donald Trump irl.

Chip Butty · Post Post #967 (isolation #117) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:26 am

In post 962, MariaR wrote:
In post 933, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 932, MariaR wrote:VOTE: Misere

Seems I don't have a choice since I don't sr the other wagon.
Scummy Hop-on of the Year nominee.
As I said I don't have a choice. Mostly a survival vote.

Wot? There are 12 players in this game to choose from. If you are Town you are 100% sure you are Town. And you must be <100% sure about everybody else, so you are justified to try to survive at their expense (excluding Havo if you believe his claim). That includes Fykus, who has the only other wagon atm. How does voting Misere, who doesn't even have a wagon atm, help you survive? Okay, a few people have expressed interest, but they haven't followed through...

Chip Butty · Post Post #968 (isolation #118) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:28 am

Fykus, while you're here, can you link to the game where you saw WM shoot his wad early?

Chip Butty · Post Post #977 (isolation #119) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:40 am

In post 971, WhyMafia wrote:
In post 878, Mulch wrote:I have a game in which he did this but I don't think fykus was in it, let me check.
Which game? I don't remember ever day 1 claiming

So...that was a wild goose chase?

Chip Butty · Post Post #978 (isolation #120) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:44 am

WM, my confidence in your Towniness is somewhat shaken...

Chip Butty · Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:59 am

In post 962, MariaR wrote:
In post 933, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 932, MariaR wrote:VOTE: Misere

Seems I don't have a choice since I don't sr the other wagon.
Scummy Hop-on of the Year nominee.
As I said I don't have a choice. Mostly a survival vote.

In post 980, Mulch wrote:If there's enough support for a Miseré wagon I could switch onto them from Maria. If not, Maria is the lynch.

Wait, if Maria is scum, why switch your vote to the wagon she started rather than vote her? And if she is Town, why agree to her lynch?

What you said doesn't make sense...

Chip Butty · Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:09 am

What i mean is that your post doesn't make sense regardless of what you think her alignment is. Read your post again and think it through. It's not a vca thing, it's a logic thing.

Chip Butty · Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:30 am

Well, if you think she is scummy, wouldn't it be better to stay on her wagon, which is the biggest wagon atm?

Chip Butty · Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:32 am

Why would you shift off her at all?

Chip Butty · Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:47 am

In post 990, Mulch wrote:That's true. Probably best to stay on Maria just for unity sake. Although, at this point I'm actually slightly scumreading misere more.

Why?

Chip Butty · Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:50 am

In post 991, Fykus wrote:VOTE: bbt

Why dont we just lynch this? They arent/seemingly wont contribute to the game and the only conclusion is that its scum or a useless townie. This will save us an investigation so that we can sort the game easier.

If its scum then goodo, if its a vt no big loss. The only downside i can see is if hes a pr, but honestly youd think hed be trying a bit harder if he was.

PRs do sometimes try to fly under the radar...I was on a BBT wagon earlier but i jumped off because people i think are scum followed me on.

Chip Butty · Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:06 pm

In post 994, Mulch wrote:
In post 993, Chip Butty wrote:i jumped off because people i think are scum followed me on.

Lol they were 2nd and 3rd on the wagon. Everybody knows those are scum slots.

Chip Butty · Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:35 am

In post 1036, Toranaga wrote:I never voted maria the whole d1

#lockclear

no jk, but really.

Gloating = scumtell

Chip Butty · Mon Sep 18, 2017 12:39 am

Sorry Maria, that was an unfortunate way to go out...

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:07 am

Celine Dion? Really?

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:20 am

Seriously though, Havo demonstrated how NOT to play that role. Don't draw attention to yourself by refusing to give any reads. And then don't "softclaim" in mile-high neon letters. Unfortunately players sometimes make themselves look mafia even when town. Losing a cop, even a loyal cop, is a setback but we can recover if our remaining PRs can stay hidden and do their jobs.

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:23 am

No doubt, mafia will try to use this to get town Havo detractors lynched, so be on guard for that.

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:00 am

In post 1056, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1053, Chip Butty wrote:No doubt, mafia will try to use this to get town Havo detractors lynched, so be on guard for that.
oh really chip butty

it's not scummy to get the cop mislynched is it. you're not even slightly concerned with the people that showed an equal amount of unawareness that you showed. great. TOWNIE.

In post 1057, Toranaga wrote:actually I think this 'on guard' post is so ridiculous it can only really come from scum

vote: chip butty

Right on schedule. But i don't think scum would have the nads to charge in like this, so good for you.

Have you forgotten that Maria was accidentally hammered, or at least this is what we were led to believe. I mean, we still had nearly a week on the clock. Who was expecting an early hammer? I know I wasn't. Maybe we should be lokokibg at those who jumped on the wagon toward the end. Anyway, Maria said herself she didn't put mych effort in, which is true.

And I'm not taking blame for Havo's play. Even his hardclaim came way before intent. None of that was necessary. He played like scum and paid the price.

So bottle the mock outrage, huh?

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:04 am

But i dunno...maybe charging in, trying to get a quick follow-up mislynch, would work, precisely because it's audacious.

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:09 am

In post 1051, Chip Butty wrote:Celine Dion? Really?

Tora, you're just attacking me because I questioned Celine Dion, aren't you? I bet you're a big fan of Mariah Carey and Rick Astley too.

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:21 am

In post 1067, Toranaga wrote:Mulch you were as anti town as chip butty was and you two were the worst of the people pushing Havo. he did not play poorly!

Are you even playing in the same game? Here, again, is how Havo played badly:

1. Creating suspicion by refusing to give any reads.
2. Ridiculously obvious "softclaim."
3. Early hardclaim.
4. Being whiny and defensive rather than asking questions, applying pressure etc

If you can't recognise that as bad play, I'm not going to consider your opinions even slightly seriously.

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:27 am

In post 1070, Thor665 wrote:Why is in not possible for both Havo to have played poorly. and people insisting on a claim after a soft to have played badly all as one combined bad jelly sandwich?

In other news, I'm okay with the Misere wagon, but why push on that over Skitter?

If it was a decent soft combined with townlike play, okay. But it wasn't. It was 'HEY, LOOK AT ME! I'M SOFTING!!!'

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:19 pm

In post 1099, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 1096, Toranaga wrote:hey mulch, isn't the policy 'hardclaim or die'?
Since he won't hardclaim, guess he should die, according to his laws.

So...I'm idiotic for pushing Havo to hardclaim, and now you're pushing Mulch to hardclaim? What conclusion should we draw from that?

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:28 pm

Yeah we pushed Havo to hardclaim, but he could have blown us off until he got ontent. He caved way to easily, which means we lost a chance to see who would have jumped on his wagon. It was horrible play by him. Why are you defending it?

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:29 pm

^*intent

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:36 pm

In post 1113, Toranaga wrote:I never saw a player push the cop to hardclaim on d1 by almost getting him MAJ lynched and then act all arrogant about it later

people are generally a little more self aware than that

You should probably stick to Monopoly.

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:56 pm

In post 1115, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1114, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1113, Toranaga wrote:I never saw a player push the cop to hardclaim on d1 by almost getting him MAJ lynched and then act all arrogant about it later

people are generally a little more self aware than that
You should probably stick to Monopoly.
little kids playing monopoly have a better grasp of reality than you do.

Ooooh, sick burn, dude.

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:58 pm

Tora, why are you voting me if you're townreading me so hard?

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:09 pm

I'm voting you if you can't answer that.

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:21 pm

In post 1119, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 1113, Toranaga wrote:I never saw a player push the cop to hardclaim on d1 by almost getting him MAJ lynched and then act all arrogant about it later

people are generally a little more self aware than that

Fire up the bong, dude. You're way more entertaining when you're wasted.

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:45 pm

Taco signed up for this game because he thought the title was short for 'Classic Hits from the Bong.'

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:43 pm

In post 1126, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1117, Chip Butty wrote:Tora, why are you voting me if you're townreading me so hard?
how am I townreading you

Is that really how you want to play this? Okay...

VOTE: Tora

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:04 pm

In post 1115, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1114, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1113, Toranaga wrote:I never saw a player push the cop to hardclaim on d1 by almost getting him MAJ lynched and then act all arrogant about it later

people are generally a little more self aware than that
You should probably stick to Monopoly.
little kids playing monopoly have a better grasp of reality than you do.

In post 1128, Toranaga wrote:explain where did I townread you this gameday

Just one of several examples. You've been on my case all day saying my play getting Havo to claim is horrible play. Whicj is wrong, but at least it is a view that can be argued. But it can't be argued that it is bad play for scum. All your posts read like you believe i am town playing badly, yet you are voting me.

Conclusion: You are confused scum.

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:06 pm

You need to go with a single strategy, not two conflicting strategies. Either try to start a bw or try to discredit me as badtown, but not both.

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:21 pm

In post 1131, Toranaga wrote:abysmal.

Don't feel bad. It's an easy mistake to make when you you're just learning the game.

Chip Butty · Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:24 pm

Its a fatal slip, or should be, but you'll be a stronger player for having gone through the experience. One day, you might even be good.

Chip Butty · Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:21 am

In post 1135, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 1133, Chip Butty wrote:Its a fatal slip, or should be, but you'll be a stronger player for having gone through the experience. One day, you might even be good.
Where did Tor scumslip? I don't see it??

Sorry, i didn't mean Tora literally scumslipped. But all his posts read like he is hard reading me as badtown, yet he is voting me. Help me lynch him...

Chip Butty · Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:23 am

In post 1134, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1111, Chip Butty wrote:Yeah we pushed Havo to hardclaim, but he could have blown us off until he got ontent. He caved way to easily, which means we lost a chance to see who would have jumped on his wagon. It was horrible play by him. Why are you defending it?
I agree that there is info there to be mined off a bad push.
Why are you claiming the wagon didn't go far enough to be mined though? His wagon got to L-2 or L-1.

If it went to L - 1 that's not too bad, but i can't be bothered right now going back to check cos nothing hangs on it.

Chip Butty · Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:41 am

Are you still townreading me?

Chip Butty · Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:44 am

In post 1140, Toranaga wrote:yeah nothing that happened when the cop was hanging by a thread is relevant

It will only take on significance later in the game. For now, nothing can reliably be read into Havo's bw.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:10 am

In post 1151, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1139, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1134, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1111, Chip Butty wrote:Yeah we pushed Havo to hardclaim, but he could have blown us off until he got ontent. He caved way to easily, which means we lost a chance to see who would have jumped on his wagon. It was horrible play by him. Why are you defending it?
I agree that there is info there to be mined off a bad push.
Why are you claiming the wagon didn't go far enough to be mined though? His wagon got to L-2 or L-1.
If it went to L - 1 that's not too bad, but i can't be bothered right now going back to check cos nothing hangs on it.

Lol you know what i mean. After pushing Havo to get a hardclaim, and info from his train, I'm not really going to turn around and say the info is useless, am i? I might be a bastard, but I'm not that much of a barstard. Don't worry, as the game wears on, I'll be looking keenly at that wagon data.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:11 am

^ inb4 @lamist

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:29 pm

This game needs an enema.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:44 pm

In post 1022, Mulch wrote:Mulch: 691
Chip: 710
Toffee:769
Miseré: 788
Thor: 907
Skitter: 1002
Fykus:1017

Why hasn't anybody noticed this yet?

Fwiw, i think maybe scum on this wagon is at least one from misere down. Unlikely to be the first, I'm me, and BBT was policy voting on the biggest bw. That doesn't clear him, but nothing scummy about this particular vote. He probably has his reasons for playing as he does.

Fykus: could have noticed Thor's vote missing and pretended not to, in which case, bravo! Possibility, but probably not the case.

Out of the other three, Thor looks more towny than either low-activity Misere, or Skitter, at the moment.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:46 pm

In post 789, MariaR wrote:
In post 788, Misère wrote:Actually, I like the Maria wagon (though I wouldn't mind a Serg wagon either).

VOTE: MariaR
Prob the worst vote on my wagon.

Yeah, probably.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 7:54 pm

In post 721, Thor665 wrote:
In post 694, Mulch wrote:Perspective slips and flipless VCA yup that's brilliant
Why is it so important for you to desperately manage to suggest that I'm wrong on my reads?
If you're scum scared of me being accurate about you and maybe one additional buddy I totally get it.
But what's the point of being a whiny girl-childe about my reads if you're town?

In post 695, Mulch wrote:Let's do Maria. I don't want Skitter today
Get some more votes on there and I will join you, but at the moment I'm on a rather large wagon and Skitter is riding quiet.

In post 907, Thor665 wrote:
In post 867, Mulch wrote:
In post 850, Thor665 wrote: And you actually haven't described how my read on Skitter is bad
672
That's you describing your case on him, not disabusing mine.

In post 870, Mulch wrote:So thor, how do we catch you if your scum if you don't act any different?
Hopefully no one ever does. That's the point, isn't it?

In post 904, Virtuoso wrote:VC posted. If everyone can use the vote tag that will make it so much easier for me to see your vote. If I missed any votes, please let me know.
Vote tags are new age and fill me with fear.

Unvote: Skitter
Vote: MariaR

Also

VOTE: MariaR

Just for Virtuoso

Taken together, makes Thor's hop-on look okay. Note he doesn't bother to call back to the earlier post when voting. I find that townie, shows he is feeling relaxed about things.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:08 pm

In post 1002, skitter30 wrote:
In post 980, Mulch wrote:If there's enough support for a Miseré wagon I could switch onto them from Maria. If not, Maria is the lynch.
Maria started the Misere wagon after you said you could go there. Her vote was awful and was apparently a 'survival' vote, which literally makes no sense since there were several other viable wagons at that time. You sheeping a scumread onto an awful vote that she made because you said you were willing to vote there is really, really bad.

In post 963, MariaR wrote:If a monkey BBT or Mulch wagon became a thing I'd do backflips cheering.
The BBT wagon is a thing and was a thing at the time of your misere vote. Why weren't you voting him then? Why start a misere wagon instead?

In post 965, MariaR wrote:Cause BBT's wagon looked almost as easy as mine. It's my only worry with voting him.
You say you're happy to do BBT if his wagon becomes a thing until Thor points out his wagon is already a thing.

VOTE: Maria

I believe this is L-2.

We now know that akitter is clashing with town here, but to be fair, Maria wasn't taking any great pains to defend herself. Also, as far as i can see, Skitter is correct in saying the BBT wagon was a thing (2 votes) when Maria voted misere. She probably felt she had caught maria out there. Less scummy than misere, think.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:25 pm

I guess Thor's vote not being on the VC kind of muddies the results, esp for those whose hop-on didn't look too bad.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:10 pm

In post 1169, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Chip, your read on me has changed?

Yeah, a bit. More because i am interpreting things slightly differently now than anything you've done or haven't done. You're playing enigmatically by being low-activity and policy-voting, so i do retain doubts about you. I wouldn't want to go into lylo with you playing as you are, but that is someway off and with any luck we won't even get there.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:47 pm

In post 1172, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1169, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Chip, your read on me has changed?
why did you ask that btw? why would it change?

Cos you know that something is happening, but you don't know what it is, do you, Mister Jones?

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:48 pm

In post 1173, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Just found it strange how Chip went from wanting to lynch me to not being concerned about me.

He didn't answer how that changed and instead just waffled about playstyle.

All right then. I thought maybe you're playing the way you are because you're a PR and i didn't want to probe too hard. Happy?

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:52 pm

In post 1177, Toranaga wrote:well you're very likely mafia, chip. trying to figure out who is wolfing with you.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:08 pm

In post 1179, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1176, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1173, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Just found it strange how Chip went from wanting to lynch me to not being concerned about me.

He didn't answer how that changed and instead just waffled about playstyle.
All right then. I thought maybe you're playing the way you are because you're a PR and i didn't want to probe too hard. Happy?
hahahaha

the cop is dead. you helped getting him outed. you specifically did this after he softed a PR. we also have a miller claim and mulch sends ITEMS, now you think BBT is a PR? and that's how you're starting to actually town read him, although ofc you're villagery enough to 'retain doubts about' him. very inquisitive.

BBT is playing in a way that actually brings attention to himself as suspicious and should get him wagoned and lynched, and you're town PR reading that slot!

And yet BBT is still here and hasn't gone clost to getting lynched, so his playstyle seems to be working okay for him. Also it is NAI to play like that consciously, because obviously vt pr and scum all want to stay alive.

You think too mechanistically. And do you know why there is darkness all around? It's because you are deep insidevthe tunnel, and that tunnel is your own lower colon.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:15 pm

As for PR claims, are they confirmed?

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:31 pm

In post 1183, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1181, Chip Butty wrote:As for PR claims, are they confirmed?
the flipped cop that you outed is confirmed.

Get over Havo. Here are the facts, one last time. If you push further I'll just repost the posts that show the error lies with Havo.

I. Havo drew sttention by refuding very obstinately to give reads.
2. Havo neon-softed that he had the most important PR. From that moment he was NK bait. It wouldn't have made a difference if everyone had immediately jumped off.
3.By pressing him further we at least got something out of it, namely that he couldn't hide behind a vague not-soft claim, and wagon onfo.

My play was correct.

Now, why are you so ready to accept these PR claims so readily?

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:34 pm

In post 1184, Toranaga wrote:chip butty logic:

2 real days into a two week gameday, wagons a player for not having 'reads', player softs a pr: HARDCLAIM OR DIE!

DAY 2 of the same game with flipped COP: I better not probe a slot who isn't playing and has no reads cause he might be a PR!

This is exactly what i mean by playing mechanically.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:37 pm

As for number of PR claims, check out Mini Normal 1948.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:38 pm

^ in prog, don't discuss.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:42 pm

Take a pill, dude. Go for a walk or something. You're gonna bust a blood vessel lol.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:44 pm

In post 1189, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:VOTE: Chip

This seems pretty good. A lot of his posts are coming across as LAMIST

Yeah, well if you're not a PR, you're back to being scum.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:46 pm

In post 1189, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:VOTE: Chip

This seems pretty good. A lot of his posts are coming across as LAMIST

No vague weasel accusations please. Examples.

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:47 pm

In post 1195, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1194, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1189, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:VOTE: Chip

This seems pretty good. A lot of his posts are coming across as LAMIST
Yeah, well if you're not a PR, you're back to being scum.
^^^

if this doesn't get lynched today you guys are the worst

~You're tunnelling~

Chip Butty · Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:53 pm

In post 1192, Chip Butty wrote:Take a pill, dude. Go for a walk or something. You're gonna bust a blood vessel lol.

In post 1193, Toranaga wrote: that's very true.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:53 am

In post 157, Havo wrote:L - 1.

This is where I'd normally say go ahead and lynch me, cause town could do worse.

But this time town could literally NOT do worse.

Lynching me is the worst thing town could do.

In post 165, Havo wrote:
In post 157, Havo wrote:L - 1.

This is where I'd normally say go ahead and lynch me, cause town could do worse.

But this time town could literally NOT do worse.

Lynching me is the worst thing town could do.

Okay, so here is the Havo so-called "softclaim". It is not actually a softclaim at all, but a non-specific hardclaim. Havo may as well have said 'I am a cop'.

At this point, Mafia have everything they need for their NK. It follows that we ought to be looking for scum among those who slipped off the wagon after this, not those who stayed on. Toranaga was the first. Skitter was the second. Much better for scum to NK Havo than to be on a controversial lynch wagon that kills the town cop.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:59 am

In post 167, Toranaga wrote:
vote: bluebloodedtoffee

just to remove that capping chance

Toranaga slipping off the Havo wagon.

I'm not saying that this in itself is scummy. It is a legitimate response to Havo's claim if he finds it sufficiently plausible. But it could also be scum getting off the wagon before it flips the cop, knowing that the NK will be Havo.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:06 am

In post 154, skitter30 wrote:
In post 141, Havo wrote:
In post 140, WhyMafia wrote:Don't like his defense
What's not to like?

The only thing I see that I've actually been accused of is Not Scumhunting.

24 hours into the game. And we've still got a handful of people who has barely posted anything.
The fact that you're 'Not Scumhunting' is precisely the problem.

You have a relatively significant number of posts, but very few of them are advancing the game. Instead, you're fluffposting and using sarcasm to discredit people's reads (118, 'nice to see I'm in a game with such good players who can develop serious reads less than 24 hours in').

You seem rather concerned about defending yourself and trying to undermine people's reads on you, and don't seem that interested in looking for scum.

VOTE: Havo

L-1.

In post 171, skitter30 wrote:
In post 157, Havo wrote:L - 1.

This is where I'd normally say go ahead and lynch me, cause town could do worse.

But this time town could literally NOT do worse.

Lynching me is the worst thing town could do.
I actually missed this. UNVOTE:

@Tor: Why are you voting BBT?

@HEM:

In post 169, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Do you think WM is scum? Or are you pushing a policy lynch on him? Similarly, do you actually want to lynch him today?"
Not overwhelmingly. It's a policy lynch, technically. I want him out so we don't have to deal with the slot later, and then analyze based on what happened to the slot later. I think it's because scum would advocate for his survival to the point of LYLO, where it would be too late.

In post 32, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Ah. It's because the team is WhyMafia, Mulch, and someone who's gonna bus WhyMafia upon entrance.
Was the above serious?

Here we see skitter slipping on to the Havo wagon, taking him to L - 1, then slipping off again once the job is done. Again, multiple interpretations are possible, but it is suspicious she claims to have missed the Havo claim when he posted it twice, at #157 and again at #165. (see above)

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:16 am

In post 270, Havo wrote:
In post 268, Mulch wrote:VOTE: havo

Hardclaim or I will tunnel you for the rest of the day
And what will that accomplish??

In post 274, Havo wrote:
In post 273, Mulch wrote:
In post 272, Havo wrote:
In post 271, Mulch wrote:
In post 270, Havo wrote:
In post 268, Mulch wrote:VOTE: havo

Hardclaim or I will tunnel you for the rest of the day
And what will that accomplish??
The hardclaim or the tunnel?
Either?
The hardclaim: Force you to claim so if your scum you can't switch up your claim later or avoid getting counterclaimed.

The tunnel: Dually put pressure on you and ~hopefully~ lynch scum if need be
So you're completely fine with putting me? No matter what role I could be?

In post 367, Havo wrote:
In post 366, Havo wrote:
In post 310, Mulch wrote:longer deadlines benefit scum.

And more importantly, I feel like getting Havo to L-1 will elicit a claim from him.
Here's the 1st scum.

In post 369, Havo wrote:VOTE: Mulch

In post 371, Havo wrote:I HARD CLAIM -

Loyal Town Cop.

Mulch is the lynch today.

Here we have part of the leadup to Havo's formal hardclaim. Now, Toranaga has made a determined and sustained effort to blame Havo's death on me, but hasn't said a word about Mulch, who was actually the instigator of the push for the hardclaim, and who Havo himself blamed.

Why, Toranaga?

And it has to be said that Mulch has made zero effort to set the record straight.

Okay more to come later...

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:09 am

@Taco: Not suspecting Mulch at this point, since he took a similar approach to Havo as i did, but harder. What is interesting is that Toranaga has been all over my case about it, but not Mulch's, even though Havo himself blamed Mulch. That, plus the fact he was first to slip off Havo's wagon once the crucial info about Havo's role had been extracted, does make me suspicious.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:12 am

I have a nagging feeling he might just be horrible town, though.

I think i might almost be ready for a skitter wagon when she returns to the game.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:19 am

I mean Toranaga might be horrible town, in case that isn't clear. ^

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:21 am

Reason i don't suspect Mulch: the best thing for scum on Havo's wagon after #157 / #165 was to get off the wagon pronto, but he went even harder after that.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:19 pm

@HEM: It seems a bit early for Toranaga to be bussing Fykus though...

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:48 pm

I think in the light of the Havo and MariaR flips, skitter is my leading scumpick, but yeah one or both of Fykus / Toranaga could be scum. Misere also a possibility.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:51 pm

Oh, and since BBT isn't a PR, his playstyle makes him suspect too. Low vol and pilicy voting both make him hard to read, and his vote on me is bad because unsupported by evidence.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:57 pm

So now I'm thinking :

Towner:
HEM, WM, Thor, Taco, Mulch

Scummer:
Skitter, Misere, BBT, Toranaga, Fykus

These are balance-of-probability assessments in some cases...

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:00 pm

In post 1176, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1173, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Just found it strange how Chip went from wanting to lynch me to not being concerned about me.

He didn't answer how that changed and instead just waffled about playstyle.
All right then. I thought maybe you're playing the way you are because you're a PR and i didn't want to probe too hard. Happy?

In post 1229, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Did he say he wasn't PR? I missed that. I missed most of the discussion.

He didn't explicitly say it, but this exchange didn't strike me as a PR who wants to remain in the shadows.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:03 pm

In post 1230, humaneatingmonkey wrote:He could just have real life on the way I can entertain the idea that he's busy IRL. What's important is his post quality. I'm gonna check him out later.

Yeah but he seems to be trying to sell his current playstyle as an experiment.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:08 pm

In post 1233, humaneatingmonkey wrote: also can you tell me what are the cases against you being scum

why would he calling you out for flip-floppity actions not someone a PR who wants to remain in the shadows would do? just challenging your thoughts on it.

If there are specific accusations i can address those.

Yeah it's possible in a WIFOMy way...

I'll reply on Thor and Mulch latet. Gotta go do stuff...

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:12 pm

Balance of probability: example i did an ISO of Fykus a while back and didn't see anything too bad. But if i had to guesd right now, i would say scum. The only thing is, there are prob three others ahead of him in the queue...

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:15 pm

In post 1177, Toranaga wrote:well you're very likely mafia, chip. trying to figure out who is wolfing with you.

Wtf does this even mean?

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:16 pm

In post 1251, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1177, Toranaga wrote:well you're very likely mafia, chip. trying to figure out who is wolfing with you.
Wtf does this even mean?

Oh wait. Missed the period after 'Chip'. Nevermind.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:18 pm

In post 1250, Mulch wrote:I dislike 991 from Fykus

Yeah it's not very reassuring.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:24 pm

In post 1245, Mulch wrote:
In post 1227, Chip Butty wrote:I think in the light of the Havo and MariaR flips, skitter is my leading scumpick, but yeah one or both of Fykus / Toranaga could be scum. Misere also a possibility.
Why aren't you voting them if they are your top scum then?

And I think Miseré has more than a good chance to flip red. What's your thoughts on what I've posted on them?

Mainly because she is v/la. Also because it's the weekend and I'm just letting stuff stew in my brain. Third because my vote is on Toranaga and i wouldn't hate a bw on him, even though it's possible he is just badtown.

Chip Butty · Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:28 pm

In post 1245, Mulch wrote:
In post 1227, Chip Butty wrote:I think in the light of the Havo and MariaR flips, skitter is my leading scumpick, but yeah one or both of Fykus / Toranaga could be scum. Misere also a possibility.
Why aren't you voting them if they are your top scum then?

And I think Miseré has more than a good chance to flip red. What's your thoughts on what I've posted on them?

Can you summarise your case on Misere? Your ISO is massive.