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Post Post #10 (isolation #0) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:57 am

Post by Toranaga »

hello!!!!!!!!
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Post Post #11 (isolation #1) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:58 am

Post by Toranaga »

I come from a place where there's no RVS and we don't read into that stuff

I buy that whoever claimed miller is a miller
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Post Post #13 (isolation #2) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 8:58 am

Post by Toranaga »

I'll get an avatar ASAP so reading me doesn't give you aids
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Post Post #15 (isolation #3) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:06 am

Post by Toranaga »

I consider myself good but some people will disagree with this! I definitely have shallower reads and weirder tone as scum :)
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Post Post #16 (isolation #4) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:07 am

Post by Toranaga »

asking me if I'm good scum is inherently townie.
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Post Post #17 (isolation #5) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:10 am

Post by Toranaga »

TOWNBLOCK me, whymafia and mulch

scum beware
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Post Post #22 (isolation #6) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:31 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 19, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Ah. So it's Mulch and WhyMafia then. VOTE: WhyMafia

Please avoid multiposts this game.
I apologise. I actually had no idea this was a 2 week day 1. you finding that many scum already is townie, and even more townie as the logic behind it is strange and tinfoily!
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Post Post #33 (isolation #7) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:45 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 26, humaneatingmonkey wrote:What's so townie with a logic that you think is strange and tinfoily?
scum isn't as creative and paranoid :)

WRT miller claim, I'm yet to see someone hardclaim miller at d1 SOD without being one, and that's the correct approach to the game as miller anyway. risky play for scum and I can see many of you already scum reading that player and thinking lynching him is 'safe' due to that. only a true miller would benefit from hardclaiming early. I also agree with Mulch's reasoning that scum don't know if there's miller in the game, so this has the added risk of being CCed by one.
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Post Post #36 (isolation #8) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:50 am

Post by Toranaga »

Maybe, but we are not lynching the claimed miller this gameday if I can avoid it.
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Post Post #39 (isolation #9) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:53 am

Post by Toranaga »

ehhh these will be two long weeks.
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Post Post #53 (isolation #10) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:18 am

Post by Toranaga »

Mulch, you're my favorite player already.
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Post Post #58 (isolation #11) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:29 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 55, Mulch wrote:
In post 53, Toranaga wrote:Mulch, you're my favorite player already.
Thanks. Are you pocketing me? :)
Image

I just like where your brain is at wrt mafia in general, which of course doesn't necessarily mean you're town this game :)
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Post Post #60 (isolation #12) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:44 am

Post by Toranaga »

here are some thoughts on the whole miller thing that aren't necessarily in response to anyone:

- d1 SOD openclaiming miller is a townie thing to do, because either the player is a miller or the player is fancy playing his hand hard as scum with no seemingly benefit for his win condition;
- Meta is a powerful tool. some people are good at it, some people are not so good at it. meta speaks directly to who a player is and what his tendencies are, it can work in delimiting a player's range and frequency as town and scum.
- We should lynch scummy people instead of resolving a miller claim d1. Only scum benefits from tunnel vision and only scum benefits from lynching a town player. On that subject, scum benefits strongly from lynching the miller d1, and defending that slot for 'pocketing' and 'town cred' is literally villa siding play.
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Post Post #61 (isolation #13) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:45 am

Post by Toranaga »

RVS is senseless garbage. meta reads are not.
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Post Post #64 (isolation #14) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:50 am

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WhyMafia townie reacting to pressure :)
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Post Post #87 (isolation #15) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:06 pm

Post by Toranaga »

toranaga thinks mafia is town
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Post Post #89 (isolation #16) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:14 pm

Post by Toranaga »

vote: mariaR
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Post Post #90 (isolation #17) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:17 pm

Post by Toranaga »

monkey: we gain information by lynching anyone. there's no angle where lynching the claimed miller d1 is optimal play in this spot IMO.
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Post Post #97 (isolation #18) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:40 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 72, Havo wrote:I have zero experience with a Miller best I can remember. The site I used to play at never used them that I recall.

So Wiki says they are a negative role and usually used to counter or lessen the power of the town cop. And the correct play is to claim early although it's debatable.

And I think a good argument has been made by both sides or at least I can see both sides.

I would hate to have to resolve the slot in LyLo tho. But my gut says scum wouldn't do this on D1.
As the Wiki says the claim usually gets lynched or night killed anyway. Or maybe that was one of you guys that said it.
I haven't found any reasonable argument against openclaiming. I wouldn't do it with certain player fields that I am confident to read me well, and I can see an argument for not claiming if you're trying to keep cop equity and if your kill create cop hunt cleared town. The fact is, claiming miller on later gamedays isn't as believable, and claiming miller after getting peeked scum will get you lynched everytime. Certain players with certain fields in certain games can play it in a different way, but this is not the game for that.

I wanna say this post is a little scummy. Bare in mind this is extremely thin, and I don't want to out all the reasons for it. But this is too much commentary instead of adding something to the discussion. Your post is fine otherwise, I get where you're coming from etc. Just think it comes more from scum than town.
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Post Post #98 (isolation #19) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:46 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 95, Misère wrote:I don't know if WhyMafia is town, but I'm not going to take claiming Miller as evidence that he isn't.

I think humaneatingmonkey is town for taking an unpopular (because wrong, but still) stance w.r.t. WhyMafia's claim, and refusing to soften it under pressure. If he were scum hiding behind policy I would expect him to just say "oh, good point" and back down when everyone disagrees with him.

VOTE: Havo
this is a great read on monkey and I agree with it. this is such a good post I wonder if you got there from a perspective of actually knowing he is town.
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Post Post #100 (isolation #20) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:59 pm

Post by Toranaga »

whymafia, Fykus, Mulch and humaneatingmonkey I'm kind of strong townreading considering how early this is and how good I feel about their slots. I think Maria's 'you're not wrong' is a little scummy but if you ask me why I probably can't explain it in simple terms and it's not worth the hassle really. misère's one read on monkey is a good read but it's the kind of stuff you notice harder with TMI on roles, so I'd say is a little >rand scum, especially if misère is good at being scum. I find Havo's commentary mode post a little scummy and said that already.

I guess this is where I'm at mostly. I like that misère is voting Havo... I hope I'm not spamming too hard, lmk if you want me to participate less than this. Never played a 2 week gameday before...
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Post Post #101 (isolation #21) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:01 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 99, MariaR wrote:People have reads already? What the fuck. o_o I got nothing from these blur of 5 pages.
I have a bunch of them lol

I'm feeling a little bad for having such a high pace, just know I'm aware of it and I'm working on it. IDK how to play something so long! should have signed up for something else...
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Post Post #104 (isolation #22) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:05 pm

Post by Toranaga »

thank you Maria :) I'm an old player, back when 2+2 community POG was the best place for mafia. RVS was never a thing, I actually don't know what RVS stands for, I just know it refers to randomly voting people. our games used to have 12 hour day, 12 hour night times...
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Post Post #105 (isolation #23) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:07 pm

Post by Toranaga »

Randomly voting people at d1 SOD. I know what it means, IDK what it stands for. I ate a word there.

and yeah I agree this is very worrying. I'd be scumreading me too I guess...
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Post Post #109 (isolation #24) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:52 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 107, MariaR wrote:
In post 104, Toranaga wrote:thank you Maria :) I'm an old player, back when 2+2 community POG was the best place for mafia. RVS was never a thing, I actually don't know what RVS stands for, I just know it refers to randomly voting people. our games used to have 12 hour day, 12 hour night times...
It stands for (R)andom (V)oting (S)tage basically people random vote until people see something they don't like and the vote becomes real and talk happens. Also 12 hour days and nights? The FUCK?????? holy shit lol ok thank you. Can you try to give a sentence on your tr's and sr's for me.
Pedit: I didn't mean worrying as in "wow you're scummy" I meant it in townreading people so easy isn't good at least in my mind because everyone has time to type out posts and plan and where your from that isn't really a thing. I know you just talked about your reads but more detail would be nice.
Pedit 2: I mean I can give you half assed reads if you wished it's not hard to out reads on gut feelings you have but if you ask me "who do you confidently tr" I'd say no one.
alright I can expand on my townreads anyway:

Mulch: I enjoy the forthcoming defense of whymafia the way he did it. while the level of confidence in his read may seem excessive/TMIish, I think he actually presented strong reasons and I'm sure I'd be strong defending that slot if I knew it wasn't the type of player who would come up with miller claiming d1 strategy as scum. I find his -nasty- comment on a player townie back in the previous page, and I can't really expand on it without discussing things that shouldn't be discussed. I also like his tone overrall, seems relaxed and flowing well with the thread.

Monkey: this is already 90%ish town in my book (notice =rand is 75% or something). Monkey is strong reading into everything and is coming to the game with an objectively suspicious mindset. I don't think his position on the miller claim is anything to read him or anyone else for, but I do agree with misère his refusal to soften the stance is villagery. I enjoy that he actually clicked and tried reading the games Mulch pasted for him, it shows he is not faking his engagement and is excited to read into the game and solve it. There's some tonal phrasing kinda stuff that's thin, but it's there and it's villagery too.

WhyMafia: I think claiming miller the way he did it makes him miller almost everytime. Other than that, his reaction to pressure is very villagery, as he is showing a mindset of carelessness that people are scumreading him for his claim. He doesn't seem too concerned with convincing people he is miller, which would be an angle he'd probably go for if he planned to claim miller d1 SOD in the first place. His 'don't be lazy, read me for my posting not my claim' is always townie mindset. If I'm wrong about this I'll at least enjoy the fact that this is my first game here :P

I'll expand on Fykus at some other time. It's nothing particularly good so far. Let's call it a tone read for now.

Also I probably like the way you're interacting with me here, so I'm just gonna:

VOTE: Havo
with misère :)
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Post Post #110 (isolation #25) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:53 pm

Post by Toranaga »

and I'd love to read your half assed reads, they sound delicious
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Post Post #114 (isolation #26) » Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:17 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I like Chip's posting here in terms of being villagery. I am townreading all the people he is townreading, so he should come around on me pretty soon :P

I love this read from skitter and it's phrased much better than the way I said the same thing before:
Like, from 63 and 66, he's fine with being suspected or tunneled so long as people evaluate him beyond his claim and actually try to sort him. He isn't trying to hide behind the claim, but wants people to interact with him despite it.
that's exactly the vibe!

I do think skitter's post was a little scummy apart from that very nice read.
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Post Post #117 (isolation #27) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:53 am

Post by Toranaga »

Misère, I plan on not revealing myself this game but sure, I can link you to a game played on that website anyway (I'm not necessarily in this, just the last game they played there):

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59/p ... d-1686742/

I wouldn't be appealing to your ego unless I was a wolf, and I wouldn't be appealing to your ego unless I was trying to buddy you, which I couldn't do while scum reading you in the first place :P I may have considered your thoughts very good because I thought the same things, which is an appeal to my ego more than anyone else's!

I like that you've come to very similar scumreads, and I like your reasons.
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Post Post #119 (isolation #28) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:02 am

Post by Toranaga »

You guys should probably try a quick game once in a while. I can already see how many of you struggle with early reads. this game had no RVS at all! and look how easily we all got into reading everyone! There's a sign up on POG somewhere for a vanilla+ anyway... :)
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Post Post #120 (isolation #29) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:03 am

Post by Toranaga »

By 'this game' I meant the game on POG. Havo's post came in between.
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Post Post #128 (isolation #30) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:08 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 123, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 114, Toranaga wrote:I like Chip's posting here in terms of being villagery. I am townreading all the people he is townreading, so he should come around on me pretty soon :P
That does absolutely nothing to make me feel better about your slot. Sorry.5
You guys are really cute thinking I'm townreading and liking posts because I'm buddying scum...
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Post Post #131 (isolation #31) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:06 am

Post by Toranaga »

don't lynch monkey that's horrible
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Post Post #132 (isolation #32) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:16 am

Post by Toranaga »

it's probably havo;blue;someone
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Post Post #134 (isolation #33) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:30 am

Post by Toranaga »

Havo, it's really a 4 or 5 in the sense I think you're around 50-60% likely villager. Which is <rand villager already, but not a confident read.

I really think monkey is >90% villager though.
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Post Post #136 (isolation #34) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:36 am

Post by Toranaga »

you just didn't understand my post :P

=rand is at 75% villager in a 13er
<rand is whatever is lower than 75% and >rand is whatever is higher than 75%

50% is pretty low and a good d1 lynch.
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Post Post #167 (isolation #35) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:00 pm

Post by Toranaga »

vote: bluebloodedtoffee


just to remove that capping chance
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Post Post #262 (isolation #36) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:18 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 164, MariaR wrote:Hello? Why do we have Havo at L-1 7 pages in when there clearly softing PR. Get off this wagon the fact it picked up so fast with no counter wagon is red flags all over.
If you think Havo is scum we can come back later. Let's vote the band wagon jumper.

VOTE: Chip
yes, that was horrible and I don't like skitter's push at all.
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Post Post #263 (isolation #37) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:19 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 171, skitter30 wrote:
In post 157, Havo wrote:L - 1.

This is where I'd normally say go ahead and lynch me, cause town could do worse.

But this time town could literally NOT do worse.

Lynching me is the worst thing town could do.
I actually missed this. UNVOTE:

@Tor: Why are you voting BBT?

@HEM:
In post 169, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Do you think WM is scum? Or are you pushing a policy lynch on him? Similarly, do you actually want to lynch him today?"
Not overwhelmingly. It's a policy lynch, technically. I want him out so we don't have to deal with the slot later, and then analyze based on what happened to the slot later. I think it's because scum would advocate for his survival to the point of LYLO, where it would be too late.
In post 32, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Ah. It's because the team is WhyMafia, Mulch, and someone who's gonna bus WhyMafia upon entrance.
Was the above serious?
because he wanted to have monkey at L-1
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Post Post #264 (isolation #38) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:22 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 176, Mulch wrote:[Mulch, WhyMafia, Chip]
[Blue]
[Fykus, Skitter, Thor, Miseré, Creative]
[Toranga, Monkey]----> Note, I doubt these are scum together.
[ MariaR, Havo]

Havo would probably be in null if it wasn't for that bullshit soft.
I'm just gonna say you didn't quite understand my read on monkey, took out relevant parts of it so you misinterpret me better, and your reads list doesn't look very great and my position on it is probably terrible.
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Post Post #265 (isolation #39) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:23 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I find it very amusing how many people aren't reading into havo almost getting MAJed earlier and have no suspicion of the people wagoning him.
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Post Post #282 (isolation #40) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:46 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 267, Mulch wrote:
In post 264, Toranaga wrote:took out relevant parts of it so you misinterpret me better
Where?
you basically responded to a strawman of my arguments for villa reading monkey. You may have misinterpreted it or I may have explained myself poorly, but your rebuttal doesn't refer to anything I explicitly said. I'm talking about things a player did that add to my villa of him, and you're responding to it as if I'm lock clearing the player for any of the specific reasons I did. 'but mafia can play like that!' is a tiresome response.

also I'd prefer if you could go easier on the hard posting and tunneling of players, because your level of confidence is just annoying me right now.
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Post Post #283 (isolation #41) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:49 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 269, Mulch wrote:People who think that scum can't be the first wagon are bad at this game
that's not even close to what maria said. and I agree with her that at least adds to havo's villa equity, and you shouldn't fake blindness to it because it looks bad on you.
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Post Post #286 (isolation #42) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:50 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 281, Mulch wrote:This is what I did in Giga's game to a T lmao
that's hilarious, tell me more about your play being aids that pressures villagers to hardclaim.
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Post Post #291 (isolation #43) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:55 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 284, Mulch wrote:
In post 282, Toranaga wrote:
In post 267, Mulch wrote:
In post 264, Toranaga wrote:took out relevant parts of it so you misinterpret me better
Where?
you basically responded to a strawman of my arguments for villa reading monkey. You may have misinterpreted it or I may have explained myself poorly, but your rebuttal doesn't refer to anything I explicitly said. I'm talking about things a player did that add to my villa of him, and you're responding to it as if I'm lock clearing the player for any of the specific reasons I did. 'but mafia can play like that!' is a tiresome response.

also I'd prefer if you could go easier on the hard posting and tunneling of players, because your level of confidence is just annoying me right now.
Ok. Explain your self then: what made you say he is 90% villager?
I already did my friend. you responded to everything with 'BUT SCUM DOES IT TOO' which, as I said, it's tiresome bad logic that takes you nowhere. everything can be in anyone's scum range, that's an irrelevant argument. the important thing is frequency. 90% is a frequency. being engaged and flowing with the thread is more frequently found in villagers than wolves. IDK why you're confused.
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Post Post #292 (isolation #44) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:55 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 288, Mulch wrote:
In post 286, Toranaga wrote:
In post 281, Mulch wrote:This is what I did in Giga's game to a T lmao
that's hilarious, tell me more about your play being aids that pressures villagers to hardclaim.
First off, how do you know he's a villager?



As scum in Giga's game I literally coasted for 2 days off a "oh, I"m an important power role".
I thought you meant to say you did this to a T in a game, as in you got the guy to hardclaim early.
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Post Post #293 (isolation #45) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:56 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 285, Mulch wrote:
In post 283, Toranaga wrote:
In post 269, Mulch wrote:People who think that scum can't be the first wagon are bad at this game
that's not even close to what maria said. and I agree with her that at least adds to havo's villa equity, and you shouldn't fake blindness to it because it looks bad on you.

That is exactly what they said. They said the fact it was easy, first, and no counterwagon adds to village equity, which is wrong.
it was fast and looked opportunistic, don't be blind now.
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Post Post #296 (isolation #46) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 4:59 pm

Post by Toranaga »

'engagement does not equal town' not what I said.
'blablabla he asked me questions I didn't like' not something I care about.
'I thought you were better' yeah I thought you were better too, now we both look aids to each other. GJGE.
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Post Post #297 (isolation #47) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:00 pm

Post by Toranaga »

relax with your 'basic theory' posts too, that's arrogant and annoying.
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Post Post #300 (isolation #48) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:02 pm

Post by Toranaga »

SCUM ALWAYS BUS EARLY D1 DATS BASIC THEORY

no that's just a horrible post you made. NOTHING scum does with regards to bussing, defending, interacting or whatever is 'basic theory'. you're talking about something that's 100% metagame and depends on who, when and where these people are playing the games, and what is the game being played. you're tripping all over yourself. stop.
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Post Post #304 (isolation #49) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:04 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 299, Mulch wrote:
In post 296, Toranaga wrote:'blablabla he asked me questions I didn't like' not something I care about.
No, he pointed out shit points and asked useless questions, which you didn't even comment on
I don't need to care about any of those questions you care about. that's your read, not mine.
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Post Post #306 (isolation #50) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:06 pm

Post by Toranaga »

none of this is 'basic theory'. you're talking about metagame and you're outed as someone who doesn't really understand the game as much as they believe.
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Post Post #307 (isolation #51) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:07 pm

Post by Toranaga »

why would I? I'm reading into other things he did. you read into whatever you want, those are your reads. if I find stuff irrelevant, I won't care.
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Post Post #309 (isolation #52) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:08 pm

Post by Toranaga »

if we think havo is a wolf one week from now, we can lynch him. we're like 50 hours into this game and you're trying to make it happen now, that's senseless and completely anti-town.
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Post Post #311 (isolation #53) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:09 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 308, Mulch wrote:
In post 307, Toranaga wrote:why would I? I'm reading into other things he did. you read into whatever you want, those are your reads. if I find stuff irrelevant, I won't care.
So, you did read them, and you didn't see anything wrong with them- you found them irrelevant?
I don't remember, which means it didn't pinge me, which means I don't care.
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Post Post #314 (isolation #54) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:13 pm

Post by Toranaga »

"longer deadlines benefit scum."

why even write this? you know that's not necessarily true anyway and you know lynching anyone right now is terrible. why write such thing as if it was fact?
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Post Post #316 (isolation #55) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:17 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 313, Mulch wrote:
In post 311, Toranaga wrote:
In post 308, Mulch wrote:
In post 307, Toranaga wrote:why would I? I'm reading into other things he did. you read into whatever you want, those are your reads. if I find stuff irrelevant, I won't care.
So, you did read them, and you didn't see anything wrong with them- you found them irrelevant?
I don't remember, which means it didn't pinge me, which means I don't care.
Ok, so let me get this straight. You didn't take into account the quality of Monkey's posts while giving him a near lock town read? Because you didn't mention any, so all of them were irrelevelant? His POSTS were irrelevant?
everything we're reading are posts, how can you say I'm not considering his posts? yes they're mostly stuff I disagree, but hey yours aren't much better right now, so whatever. mafia isn't about who is logical and coherent, this is not how you scumhunt at all. you can be a completely coherent wolf or a totally incoherent villager who never writes anything good or worthy. It's not how I'll determine monkey's allignment here. maybe you wanna scumhunt that way, that's on you to do so.
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Post Post #318 (isolation #56) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:19 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 315, Mulch wrote:I don't think lynching Havo right now is terrible at all



Also, it's true. The longer the deadlines go on the more town tend to get frustrated.

It's also why shorter deadline sites like Mafia Universe have better functioning towns.
2 week games are too long of course. but mafiascum has other problems that have to do with half the player base parading around talking about how unimportant meta is to discern allignments, and stuff like that. lynching havo right now is worse than lynching havo 4 days from now. let's at least respect what people signed up for. play a 12 hour gameday with me on POG any of these days, I love them. this is not it so don't lynch the guy now. It shouldn't be hard for you.
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Post Post #319 (isolation #57) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:20 pm

Post by Toranaga »

that question isn't bad and I don't view it as scummy, no.
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Post Post #320 (isolation #58) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:21 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I'm sorry for getting a little upset.
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Post Post #322 (isolation #59) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:24 pm

Post by Toranaga »

yeah lol I was actually thinking through most of this game you'd be the guy I could work the better with. I agree he needs to claim but we should also look closely at new events ITT like some people jumping on that wagon and the interactions havo is having with people etc. I'm having a hard time believing everyone jumping fast on him was town and I think skitter's posting to him was frankly pretty opportunistic and some stuff just read as fake.
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Post Post #326 (isolation #60) » Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:35 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 325, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 264, Toranaga wrote:, and your reads list doesn't look very great and my position on it is probably terrible.
Probably? How could you not be sure?
I'm self aware enough to know when I'm supposed to be town read harder.
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Post Post #387 (isolation #61) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:35 am

Post by Toranaga »

I'm ENRAGED
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Post Post #388 (isolation #62) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:35 am

Post by Toranaga »

no idea who the wolves are but it's not havo
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Post Post #389 (isolation #63) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:36 am

Post by Toranaga »

vote: misère


hype
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Post Post #556 (isolation #64) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:37 pm

Post by Toranaga »

misère;blue;skitter

and the rest is villagers headbutting each other

you're welcome
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Post Post #559 (isolation #65) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:40 pm

Post by Toranaga »

stop saying meta is garbage, you don't know enough about this game to know what's garbage and what's not.

I believe the miller claim and I believe the cop claim. and yes loyal cop can totally work with miller, it's just funny mechanics that will give the cop a red check, but the red check actually clears the miller. it doesn't matter that those are things in the game.

also loyal cop claim is >>>rand real claim. it's not like people make up that they're especifically loyal cop :P
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Post Post #560 (isolation #66) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:42 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I'm sorry I dropped my activity level. I'll read the game properly at some point but I have lots of strong town leans.
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Post Post #562 (isolation #67) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:47 pm

Post by Toranaga »

yes it doesn't 'make sense' but this is a mafiascum game. this site has mods doing funny things with the mechanics just to fuck with us, I swear :P I played a game by an old MS mod that literally had a miller and no cop LOL.
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Post Post #563 (isolation #68) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:48 pm

Post by Toranaga »

the loyal cop will get a red check on the miller and nothing on actual mafia :P it's just a funny thing, it doesn't matter, it's not broken mechanics or anything. actually the miller isn't an actual miller if the cop is loyal for that reason... it's pro-town stuff if anything
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Post Post #566 (isolation #69) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:54 pm

Post by Toranaga »

if mulch isn't hardclearing everyone I'm hardclearing he is scum :O

especially since he is proudly showing people getting pocketed hard by him in his signature :P
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Post Post #570 (isolation #70) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:03 pm

Post by Toranaga »

PRETTY MEH ON CONTENT

your content is pretty meh
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Post Post #575 (isolation #71) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:05 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 568, humaneatingmonkey wrote:If Havo flips scum, Toranaga will probably flip scum too.
I build that wagon on havo LOL

my progression on havo is probably as villagery as it can get out of anyone this game but ok, ok, I'm wolfing with the guy, why not. he is loyal cop anyway :P
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Post Post #576 (isolation #72) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:05 pm

Post by Toranaga »

vote: skitter


if you're a villager, vote this with me
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Post Post #579 (isolation #73) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:07 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 572, Mulch wrote:
In post 570, Toranaga wrote:PRETTY MEH ON CONTENT

your content is pretty meh
I don't like a lot of your posts. But your big back and forth with me was towny
it was. maybe I'm being shit, IDK, this is my first game on mafiascum. I know what the community looks like anyway, so I shouldn't be too bad here.
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Post Post #581 (isolation #74) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:09 pm

Post by Toranaga »

weird interaction with WM now mulch :P I don't wanna lynch you though, I like you

'I think we are two town here' lol
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Post Post #582 (isolation #75) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:09 pm

Post by Toranaga »

weird interaction with WM now mulch :P I don't wanna lynch you though, I like you

'I think we are two town here' lol
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Post Post #584 (isolation #76) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:09 pm

Post by Toranaga »

oh no I doubleposted. ok I'm out, sorry for doubleposting :(
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Post Post #600 (isolation #77) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:49 pm

Post by Toranaga »

pro town move my ASS!

ehhh I kinda like skitter too lol

can we just lynch misere please
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Post Post #604 (isolation #78) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:07 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 602, Mulch wrote:
In post 600, Toranaga wrote:pro town move my ASS!

ehhh I kinda like skitter too lol

can we just lynch misere please
What about serge
i'll have to get back to you on that. actually I'll read this entire thread and come up with good shit I promise. I'll make you love me very mulch.
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Post Post #614 (isolation #79) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:58 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 611, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 562, Toranaga wrote:yes it doesn't 'make sense' but this is a mafiascum game. this site has mods doing funny things with the mechanics just to fuck with us, I swear :P I played a game by an old MS mod that literally had a miller and no cop LOL.
In post 579, Toranaga wrote:
In post 572, Mulch wrote:
In post 570, Toranaga wrote:PRETTY MEH ON CONTENT

your content is pretty meh


I don't like a lot of your posts. But your big back and forth with me was towny
it was. maybe I'm being shit, IDK, this is my first game on mafiascum. I know what the community looks like anyway, so I shouldn't be too bad here.
You seem to have strong views about what MS games are like, for someone playing his first game here.

It might just be posting style, but you continue to ping me quite hard at times.
I know some people from this site and played a lot with them. I understand a lot about the community without having played here yes.
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Post Post #615 (isolation #80) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 6:59 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 609, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 576, Toranaga wrote:
vote: skitter


if you're a villager, vote this with me
In post 600, Toranaga wrote:pro town move my ASS!

ehhh I kinda like skitter too lol

can we just lynch misere please
???5
between those posts we had a bunch of skitter posts and I liked some of them. what's confusing about it, nothing? yeah I thought so...
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Post Post #620 (isolation #81) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:27 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I want to lynch misère cause I thought her two posts are >rand scum posts. give me a couple of days and I'll do a complete re-read of everything, I'm just very busy atm... but I think the misere read is good without knowing her anyway
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Post Post #624 (isolation #82) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:50 pm

Post by Toranaga »

alright let me start by breaking down what I considered to be misère's wolfiness in her two posts, then I'll try reading the game or at least stuff I skimmed or skipped.
In post 95, Misère wrote:I don't know if WhyMafia is town, but I'm not going to take claiming Miller as evidence that he isn't.

I think humaneatingmonkey is town for taking an unpopular (because wrong, but still) stance w.r.t. WhyMafia's claim, and refusing to soften it under pressure. If he were scum hiding behind policy I would expect him to just say "oh, good point" and back down when everyone disagrees with him.

VOTE: Havo
the first paragraph is hedgy and phrased in a way that keeps misère absolutely neutral about WM. It feels extremely safe and, considering how everyone else reacted so strongly one way or the other, I don't think this neutral read comes from a townie place.

I already said why the second paragraph is >rand scum. It's a good read and I feel fine sponging it, but it's a lot easier to get there from a place of actual TMI that monkey is town. A little like when dead players read the game with the spoilers, and go 'oh but he is so obvtown for this and that'. this is it, this 'he wouldn't keep pushing whatever he is pushing as a wolf by now' post. I also think she isn't taking a much wholly approach to her read, instead saying someone is town exclusively for the stubborn behaviour, and that also feels a bit like TMI with the strength of the read vs the reasons given.

I'll grab her other post now.
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Post Post #625 (isolation #83) » Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:52 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 115, Misère wrote:
In post 98, Toranaga wrote:
In post 95, Misère wrote:I think humaneatingmonkey is town for taking an unpopular (because wrong, but still) stance w.r.t. WhyMafia's claim, and refusing to soften it under pressure. If he were scum hiding behind policy I would expect him to just say "oh, good point" and back down when everyone disagrees with him.
this is a great read on monkey and I agree with it. this is such a good post I wonder if you got there from a perspective of actually knowing he is town.
I don't know if I dislike this more for the scumread or for the bizarre appeal to my ego. This is not a hard read to get if you actually look at humaneatingmonkey's posts. Overall I don't scumread you though, it's just this one post that bothers me.

Incidentally, can you link to where it is you normally play?




Havo
has just fluffed his way through so far. His is chatter, his is chatter, his is IIoA, and his is parroting the town consensus on WhyMafia. I don't like this slot.

MariaR
is pretty bad too; her ISO consists mostly of excuses for not having reads and expressing surprise that anyone else does. I am pretty sure she has played on this site before, so there is nothing to be surprised about and this comes off disingenuous. There is something especially troublesome about :
In post 107, MariaR wrote:Pedit: I didn't mean worrying as in "wow you're scummy" I meant it in townreading people so easy isn't good at least in my mind because everyone has time to type out posts and plan and where your from that isn't really a thing. I know you just talked about your reads but more detail would be nice.
Maria could not really have meant this in since she didn't know where Toranaga had played previously or what sort of format it was.

skitter30
's replace-in has unfortunately robbed us of the chance to look at Robbnva's progression on WhyMafia. If Robb himself had reversed his position when the town consensus formed, that would be suspicious. Instead he transformed into a different person who has the opposite opinion on WhyMafia, and it's impossible to do anything with that. Frustrating.

As for
WhyMafia
himself, I am comfortable with giving him the benefit of the doubt. I am not comfortable with saying that claiming makes him town. I would like to see him actually offer some analysis of other slots instead of just talking about himself, now that it's obvious he's in no immediate danger of being lynched.
eh I actually have no problems with this post :P
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Post Post #705 (isolation #84) » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:04 pm

Post by Toranaga »

you guys should stop calling me 'tor' when there's someone called 'thor' playing :P

alright I'm going to actually work in this game now
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Post Post #708 (isolation #85) » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:42 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I'll do a page by page (page = 100 posts) recap and then find scum and lynch it maybe. I do understand the disappointment you guys have in me and the scumreads and the votes. but I have been pretty townie, you just have to understand I come from such a different community from this there might be some actual culture clash going on... like buddying accusations etc.

now let's start with this from whymafia right after he claims:
In post 6, WhyMafia wrote:Not sure if claiming miller this early was the correct play but YOLO
I find the phrasing here very townie with adding the 'YOLO' and all. I think scum would be a little stiff doing this kind of complicated FPS play.

Mulch immediately reacts with a hard town lean, which is understandable with their meta together...

I like from Mulch. From the perspective of me being town, I'm not sure scum would ask town that as often as town asking someone they don't know the allignment. from humaneatingmonkey is not how I'd expect scum to react to a miller claim + a town read on that miller claim, in any scenario where one, both or none of either Mulch or WM are scum. is equally townie, especially his 'predictions'. This is a guy already thinking way too much and way too hard about the game.

from BBB is how I'd expect scum to react to someone pushing the WM miller claim if the miller claim is true. Because scum has TMI on WM and would know he is a villager hardclaiming. pushing that as scum can be very awkward, but pushing the people pushing the claim is easier.

Lots of NAI stuff from robbvna, humaneatingmonkey still hard thinking and very very townie. on robbvna is starting to actually look a little stiff, after asking why the miller claim is being townread and doing some mechanical posting. Wants to provide me with examples of miller claims done by scum, doesn't follow up with giving any. really wants to lynch WM harder than humaneatingmonkey, who seems to have a much more nuanced perspective in the whole thing. I'm starting to find this stuff a little uncharacteristic of town. let's see how that slot develops.

alright so 50 posts in I have WM and monkey very villagery, Mulch kinda villagery and robbvna maybe a little scummy. I'll stop commenting on monkey's posts because they're all very villagery.

post from Mulch is actually a little >rand scum, like the type of post scum will make that he thinks will make him look villagery because throwing suspicion is effective, but comes off sounding a little too much to me. I will say people always think I'm pocketing every game I play because of how much I appreciate posting etc, but it's just me loving mafia and it's really NAI :P

and 63 are very townie of WM and how I'd expect a town miller to react to pressure here. It's not his fault he is miller, so he won't spend much time defending himself. instead, he is already reading into the pressure he is getting, already suspicious of robbvna's posting, and pointing out good stuff about robbvna posting that seems off already.

good to see my p1 reads were similar when reacting in real time, although now I'm a lot more suspicious of robbvna.

will click send and continue in the next post.
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Post Post #709 (isolation #86) » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:43 pm

Post by Toranaga »

hahaha gonna is good
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Post Post #711 (isolation #87) » Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:48 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I should
UNVOTE
as well
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Post Post #712 (isolation #88) » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:22 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I'm starting to think I might be doing this re-read from a conf bias standpoint because now I think havo's posting is actually townie. starting with this, even:
In post 72, Havo wrote:I have zero experience with a Miller best I can remember. The site I used to play at never used them that I recall.

So Wiki says they are a negative role and usually used to counter or lessen the power of the town cop. And the correct play is to claim early although it's debatable.

And I think a good argument has been made by both sides or at least I can see both sides.

I would hate to have to resolve the slot in LyLo tho. But my gut says scum wouldn't do this on D1.
As the Wiki says the claim usually gets lynched or night killed anyway. Or maybe that was one of you guys that said it.
it's actually pretty bad that I was scumreading this post before. this is a good, townie post, and once you are reading the game from the first post up to this, I can definitely see how Havo went on to find out more about what the miller is and can't really decide on a position because he has no experience with miller. I also like his thoughts on it on resolving on lylo being terrible, but thinking scum wouldn't do this d1. I'm way more comfortable with this post on re-read. I was reading too hard on havo staying on the fence, but this is clearly all very logical from his standpoint as town.

76 and from robbvna isn't good. I think he is standing too firm on his position wrt the miller claim, and a 2010 account should not have this perspective at all as to what should be done with a miller claim. openlynching any miller claim is terrible as a 'policy' and robbvna isn't even trying to read into the claim to determine WM's allignment. it feels like robbvna is hiding himself under 'policy' to push for what I feel is a mislynch.

Fykus' enters at 80 and votes monkey. I don't really mind the votes on monkey because a lot of time it's hard to parse out logic you disagree with, with scummy posting. But the way he brought up meta on WM "also just to note ive seen wm shoot his wad early when he had a d1 claimable role before so im inclined to think hes town here too." <- that's a little scummy actually. WM claiming anything early as town before isn't relevant meta to determine whether he'd openclaim miller as miller or play it differently, or what his range is as scum. This reads like a forced metaread being thrown there to help Fykus' posting look townie and nuanced, and not coming from a legitimately townie scumhunting mindset.

alright near the end of the page so hitting post and adding some p1 and p2 stuff in the next one...
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Post Post #714 (isolation #89) » Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:35 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I've got a thing going on so I'll just end the p1 posting with this:

I thought Maria's "80 posts already?...Oh boy" followed by "People have reads already? What the fuck. o_o I got nothing from these blur of 5 pages." is a little scummy. a blur of 5 pages is more likely to be an actual reaction from scum, and I know this from randing scum and going 'man wtf can I even post wrt this game' before I start really working hard to parse shit out and make some sense on how I'm supposed to act. I also don't like how she first complained on the length, then commented on the sub, and only then got impressed with people having reads 'already' 5 hours later. It doesn't read like a very real progression to me.

alright I'm gonna take care of business and be back later.
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Post Post #799 (isolation #90) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:31 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I'm alive just ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

but I'll keep working on those reads when I have time
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Post Post #802 (isolation #91) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:37 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 768, skitter30 wrote:
Can you explain why you're townreading Mulch's townlean on WM based on meta but are scumreading Fykus's? Like, what's the difference between the two?
those are very different reads! mulch is townreading WM based off of WM not being the type of scum that would FPS a miller claim early! Fykus is saying WM has claimed stuff early before as town, as if that mattered to his miller claim. it seems like a meta read just thrown there with the sole purpose of making his read seem more nuanced. that's why I think his read is scummy.
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Post Post #803 (isolation #92) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:40 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 154, skitter30 wrote:
In post 141, Havo wrote:
In post 140, WhyMafia wrote:Don't like his defense
What's not to like?

The only thing I see that I've actually been accused of is Not Scumhunting.

24 hours into the game. And we've still got a handful of people who has barely posted anything.
The fact that you're 'Not Scumhunting' is precisely the problem.

You have a relatively significant number of posts, but very few of them are advancing the game. Instead, you're fluffposting and using sarcasm to discredit people's reads (, 'nice to see I'm in a game with such good players who can develop serious reads less than 24 hours in').

You seem rather concerned about defending yourself and trying to undermine people's reads on you, and don't seem that interested in looking for scum.

VOTE: Havo

L-1.
I don't think skitter is villagery and this reads just agenda driven, trying to get town lynched here

I think maria is kinda villagery fwiw

skitter30
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Post Post #804 (isolation #93) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:42 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I meant townie
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Post Post #805 (isolation #94) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:43 pm

Post by Toranaga »

alright let's do another page of those excellent re-reads I was making
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Post Post #807 (isolation #95) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:02 pm

Post by Toranaga »

Alright so I think I stopped working around this post:
In post 111, skitter30 wrote:Yay I'm back :)

@HEM: Do you think WM is scum? Or are you pushing a policy lynch on him? Similarly, do you
actually
want to lynch him today?

@Virtuoso: Was the scum thread open before the game started?


I'm townleaning WM atm. I think immediately claiming negative utility like that is inherently pro-town. Yes, he could always be scum lying to us so that he has an out if he's ever investigated, but I'm not really getting that vibe from him. Like, from and ,
he's fine with being suspected or tunneled
so long
as people evaluate him beyond his claim and actually try to sort him. He isn't trying to hide behind the claim, but wants people to interact with him
despite
it
.

I don't think I'd support a day1 lynch him atm; I want to lynch someone I, like, don't townlean.
I think this is a townie post. I really enjoy the part of the read I bolded and I agree that's very characteristic of town and unlike scum to act like WM was. I wonder if I gave this read before skitter posted that. hmmmm

Also yes I just voted skitter and now I'm villa reading her in this post. you need to be patient with me people :P. and I also just said maria is townie a bit and I don't like her posts around that page either.

is a fine post by misère and I enjoyed the maria read anyway. I do think some of the stuff here can be read like forcing reads a little, but it's nothing alarming.

well I spoke about 114 and 115 already in other posts.

from chip... not a huge fan of that post. 'could easily be persuaded to vote him' seems a little too forced for how early that was and how irrelevant most of the votes are. I think the post overrall seems a little thrown there more for the purpose of being read villagery than giving an actual read or solving or scumhunting.

ok clicking send and working more.
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Post Post #808 (isolation #96) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:21 pm

Post by Toranaga »

Continuing...
In post 145, Chip Butty wrote:I don't know which i dislike more: the Toranaga slot's abysmal grip on how probability works, or the Havo slot's abysmal defence. But it looks like a Havo lynch might actually happen, so:

VOTE: Havo
maybe you're the one who doesn't understand probability :P at least when it comes to mafia games...

I also don't know if this was a read made to just mock my mathematical skills or if this was an actual scumread of me, because it's being phrased as one here with the 'looks like a havo lynch might actually happen'. I do find this phrase scummy in the sense of voting someone super early like that because the lynch might actually happen. if you signed up for a 2 week long game, why are you trying to rush 2 days into it? and in that sense, why wouldn't my lynch actually happen as well? the day is so long it might!

and in the next post chip is aware this is L-2 wow! so really trying to lynch havo early here

from chip also strikes me as agenda driven, really pushing Havo hard for admittedly weak reasons because "Not sure there is any value in dragging D1 out to a two week talkfest". but two days into it? most people aren't even playing properly because they signed up for a 2 week gameday, not a 2 day gameday. the thread is slow because the gameday is long, and there's always value in getting people to post more. this was nowhere near an exhaustive d1 yet, we were 151 posts into it! that's nothing! those reasons are bad, and don't come from a townie mindset.

then comes skitter's 154. it's been talked about already. it's a very terrible vote.
In post 164, MariaR wrote:Hello? Why do we have Havo at L-1 7 pages in when there clearly softing PR. Get off this wagon the fact it picked up so fast with no counter wagon is red flags all over.
If you think Havo is scum we can come back later. Let's vote the band wagon jumper.

VOTE: Chip
and I absolutely love this from maria, so there you go
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Post Post #809 (isolation #97) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:31 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 172, Mulch wrote:This game is moving fast, this is incredible.
I hate this from mulch. it's a scummy thing to be noticing. I also hate all of his reads in this page. hmmmm.

also

vote: chip
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Post Post #811 (isolation #98) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:42 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I didn't want to stay on skitter but sure I deserve being scumread by the person I'm voting for anyway :P
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Post Post #814 (isolation #99) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:45 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I haven't kept track of who is scumreading me chip

but I'm not voting you for anything relating to me, I'm voting you for logic you displayed that I don't believe comes from town with regards to voting havo + interactions with havo. all in all it's even a little worse than that skitter vote.
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Post Post #816 (isolation #100) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:47 pm

Post by Toranaga »

say whaaaaaaaaaat

:P

ok I'll catch up another 100 posts and keep voting you :P
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Post Post #821 (isolation #101) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:54 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I'm in 4 games LOL

I'll be caught up man. yes I know it's dumb to read me going over 172 etc.
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Post Post #822 (isolation #102) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:54 pm

Post by Toranaga »

you mean tonight or a week from now? unless you find someone else you want to MAJ you woof :P
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Post Post #825 (isolation #103) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:59 pm

Post by Toranaga »

in one of them actually

I like that I'm not outed here so I can at least comment that yes, I'm super not caught up with one other game. much faster than this and taking priority even.
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Post Post #826 (isolation #104) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:02 pm

Post by Toranaga »

there's some good stuff in from mulch. I like his maria read and it mirrors what I found was scummy of her back when she posted those things. and I like how aggressive he is towards skitter for her reasoning behind the havo vote. I like how he is completely dissonant where he pushes one person voting havo, and then pushes another person defending havo for reasons that have nothing to do with either pushing or defending that slot. it shows mulch is going past the superficial and going on substantive reads. ok I like mulch now after reading closely.

and just to bother chip, click submit
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Post Post #827 (isolation #105) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:05 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I'm on post #200 already

bite me chip
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Post Post #828 (isolation #106) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:23 pm

Post by Toranaga »

if maria is scum, she is probably villasiding hard in this game. I believe havo's claim, and I think her standpoint is the correct one when it comes to putting someone in L-1 already 2 days into a 2 week gameday. I also think she is correct that scum would hardly get into a L-1 spot that early d1, especially since Havo wasn't being overly scummy and the people voting him were not hard scumreading him. like here:
In post 202, MariaR wrote:
In post 197, Mulch wrote:
In post 196, MariaR wrote:Like I shouldn't have to tell the basic stuff of people read and get reads at there own pace you should already know that because it applies to oh I don't know
half of life?
What don't you understand for this is not why he's scummy?
I know but it's still the point that triggers me the most. I understand where Havo is coming from. I don't think a wagon magically shows up on scum 7 papges in and it's super sub optimal to lynch him here because if it's a town pr we get barely any info and we're in an awful spot we let mafia handle him or come back to him later but not today.
she is the only player doing this correctly and having the correct mindset. also let me explain this:

if havo is town, we have 3 scum who will want to pile on him and make him lynched early because that's preferrable to dragging a two week gameday and potentially having scum lynched. if havo is scum, considering how votes on him weren't hard reads and he wasn't particularly scummy, it would need to be a pretty clear wagon to be formed there and create the L-1. the possibility of havo being town is just far too likely.

villasiding scum or just smart town from this.

Mulch has an argument with Maria where he is very clearly wrong and keeps pushing for wrong stuff. nothing to be read into, but I just had this thought actually: If Havo is town and Maria is villasiding scum, she is probably also bussing partners by casting shade on their votes. I think that's quite unlikely to be the case, because that goes way past villasiding into straight up anti wincon play that makes no sense. Maria probably town if either skitter or chip are scum then.
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Post Post #829 (isolation #107) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:45 pm

Post by Toranaga »

tacos' is quite a bizarre post, but I'm not sure if I'm really scumreading it. it's reading too much into Monkey just randomly assigning wolf pairs because reasons, and tinfoiling very deep on how would wolfbros react to an early miller claim by a wolfbro. the tinfoil part might be townie, as scum is hardly that creative.
In post 220, Mulch wrote:Alright. I disagree with your points entirely and it's making me angry but I'm more voting you for and
I just wanna say Mulch, you're wrong a lot in that discussion. it's not even debatable really.
In post 226, MariaR wrote:
In post 223, Mulch wrote: is a shit reason to unvote someone and it also seems like you have TMI. It's just bad. It's super hard for me to differentiate here because it's just so far out of my mind as something I would think from bad town and scum but it's just...bad. And I can't follow it.


Why were you worried about not having reads in
I was never voting Havo in the first place. Havo is softing a pr that seems important and that's all the info they need to give if people still sr them focus on them on a later date and see what info they have or let mafia kill them works for us

I wasn't worried about not having reads in 99 at all I was more shocked that people had reads why would I be worried
hm. Maria reminds me of someone from this website that I like very much, and I love all her logic and think she is very pure in delivering it. but I'm the type of player that's pocketed by good logic a lot, and it's not always as allignment indicative as I wish it to be :P

posting links is boring so I'll go with spoilers now. this from tacos:
In post 227, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 22, Toranaga wrote:
In post 19, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Ah. So it's Mulch and WhyMafia then. VOTE: WhyMafia

Please avoid multiposts this game.
I apologise. I actually had no idea this was a 2 week day 1. you finding that many scum already is townie, and even more townie as the logic behind it is strange and tinfoily!
Weird how Monkey didn't mention tor about the miller thing however tor basically adds monkey to his townblock? pinging hard

so far to me its tor and monkey.


he is just way past the point of reasonable tinfoil and creating all of these weird associative reads that make no sense... I think it's townie in general to play like that, because it shows tacos is at least thinking hard about all of these things, but I don't like any of the places he is going to with these reads and I honestly don't know if I fully comprehend how he is getting there.

it's difficult.

In post 232, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 28, Robbnva wrote:
In post 11, Toranaga wrote:I buy that whoever claimed miller is a miller
Why?
He questions Mulch AND Tor, unlike monkey.

Strong town: none
lean town: Robbnva
Null: None
lean scum: Monkey, whymafia, mulch, tor
Strong scum:

So far.


more of those weird conditional reads.

since I believe WM, I don't think tacos is scum. he is just making too many of those conditional reads and suspecting WM too hard with just about anything people do that's a read on WM. it's very funny, very weird and town like.
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Post Post #830 (isolation #108) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:48 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 268, Mulch wrote:VOTE: havo

Hardclaim or I will tunnel you for the rest of the day
Mulch extremely anti-town wrt havo. it's a shame.
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Post Post #831 (isolation #109) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:52 pm

Post by Toranaga »

these are town after 300 posts:

whymafia
havo
humaneatingmonkey

mariar

tacos

mulch

my mulch read and my tacos read are very thin and I could probably bump mulch higher and tacos lower depending on how they post from this point on.
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Post Post #832 (isolation #110) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:55 pm

Post by Toranaga »

so from post 300 on me and mulch are really going at it. then chip comes with this piece:
In post 324, Chip Butty wrote:Man, that was epic! If you guys are scum v scum, my hat is off to you.
I find this a little scummy. IDK why a town would read this as possibly scum interacting. we were going at each other for things that are game related but aren't reads. those aren't the types of distancing posts scum generally makes, so it's weird that this was the first thing in chips' head when he wrote it.
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Post Post #833 (isolation #111) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:58 pm

Post by Toranaga »

alright I caught up a lot now. I also enjoyed thor's posts coming in the thread on 300 and something posts in. I like his push on mulch, very reasonable.
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Post Post #834 (isolation #112) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:29 pm

Post by Toranaga »

sergtacos' push on mulch and chip is very good and very townie, in posts like this:
In post 356, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 353, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 347, Sergtacos wrote:
In post 310, Mulch wrote:longer deadlines benefit scum.


And more importantly, I feel like getting Havo to L-1 will elicit a claim from him.
Funny how you want a hard claim from him and not from everyone else? we might as well say fuck it and announce all of our roles.

So far, Whymafia= Miller

Anyone else want to hardclaim?

See how stupid this is? Why are you so demanding for Havo's full claim when there's still 2 weeks ahead of us for D1! Like I would expect a hard claim in D3 and/or D4, maybe D2 depending on the situation but wth.

VOTE: Mulch
This is just dumb. Havo is being asked to hardclaim because he softed (though not at all softly) a strong PR. Others haven't. Duh.
Ok lets supposed Havo hard claims, and he says he's a cop, a doctor, or some shit, what now? Still going to park your vote on Havo? See the problem here is that you're not thinking throughly here. If he hard claims, he could either be lying or telling the truth, so which is it? What would you determine after Havo hardclaims? I'm getting shitloads of scummy vibes from you and Havo seems innocent to me.
look pretty good on him and I'm moving sergtacos higher than mariar after those posts.
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Post Post #836 (isolation #113) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:35 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 422, Mulch wrote:VOTE: havo


Guess what, havo! I'm town and I said that.
this is extremely poor form from mulch as it comes way after havo already claimed loyal cop. and it comes after Monkey votes havo, so it seems like jumping on a player mulch wouldn't otherwise vote for...
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Post Post #837 (isolation #114) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:36 pm

Post by Toranaga »

but I'm halfway through the game chip

this was mildly funny a couple of hours ago when I started working on the game, now you're just being silly :P
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Post Post #838 (isolation #115) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:38 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I do feel mulch is wrong town and not scum more often than not here
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Post Post #839 (isolation #116) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:43 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 838, Toranaga wrote:I do feel mulch is wrong town and not scum more often than not here
because if mulch was scum, he would have TMI that havo's claim is correct and wouldn't do all that tunneling on the town's spewed cop like that. odds are he is just town and couldn't leave his tunnel vision goggles no matter the evidence.
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Post Post #840 (isolation #117) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:55 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I'm on post #600 now, I stopped quoting things here because there's not much going on and it's only furthening my town leans. my townbloc looks like this ATM:

whymafia
havo
humaneatingmonkey
mariar
tacos
mulch

so 3 wolves in chip, skitter, misère, fykus, BBT and thor.
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Post Post #841 (isolation #118) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:03 pm

Post by Toranaga »

BBT: makes no reads, wants d1 to end as soon as possible, says it's because he is 'playing differently'. I'd lynch that player just on anti town behaviour like that.

Misère: barely posted, probably exclusively voting town. seems like the type of player who can craft a good sounding post but isn't actually townie while doing so. would still lynch.

fykus: scummy first post with that added 'meta' read on WM that is out of place. pocket attempt on me at some point. post #414 doesn't read honest at all. seems to be doing a lot of sheeping into other people's opinions and isn't doing anything to solve the game. would lynch.

thor, skitter and chip have had townie moments, especially skitter and and thor, and I wouldn't lynch there.

fykus is probably my strongest scum read.
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Post Post #842 (isolation #119) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:03 pm

Post by Toranaga »

fykus
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Post Post #843 (isolation #120) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:21 pm

Post by Toranaga »

vote: fykus
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Post Post #846 (isolation #121) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:25 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I already finished
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Post Post #849 (isolation #122) » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:31 pm

Post by Toranaga »

just vote fykus with me

I'm fine ending the gameday now even :O as long as we lynch fykus or someone I poe'd down as a good lynch
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Post Post #903 (isolation #123) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:30 am

Post by Toranaga »

I think fykus is scummy regardless of him slipping an incoherent meta read or not. just the fact that he added that meta read is already scummy IMO
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Post Post #938 (isolation #124) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:09 pm

Post by Toranaga »

the fykus' wagon is people I'm strong townreading and myself. it's too bad maria and mulch don't wanna go there...
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Post Post #940 (isolation #125) » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:42 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 939, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 938, Toranaga wrote:the fykus' wagon is people I'm strong townreading and myself. it's too bad maria and mulch don't wanna go there...
Seems a bit weird to hang that much on it. It's not that strong a case yet, which is why I am still holding back. Oh, and MariaR's last post.

What do you make of that post btw?
she makes scummy posts, I'm not denying that. but I think her attitudes towards the L-1 vote on havo are very decent and if she is mafia, she is town siding pretty hard. she also has made towny posts and points. sometimes people are just naturally read as scummy :P I think fykus legitimately wrote stuff that's way more >rand scum than anything maria did.
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Post Post #945 (isolation #126) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:14 am

Post by Toranaga »

alright chip, the problem I have with fykus' posting is that a lot of his more townie thoughts are actually thoughts other people have before him. it's not hard to just sheep someone else's read and make it your own is it. I do enjoy the skitter vote here out of everything else, and I do think the meta read is scummy regardless of him having played that game with WM or not.
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Post Post #946 (isolation #127) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 12:27 am

Post by Toranaga »

I could be convinced of moving to misère.
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Post Post #951 (isolation #128) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:06 am

Post by Toranaga »

I'm townreading most of the big posters if you didn't notice
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Post Post #956 (isolation #129) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 2:10 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 952, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 951, Toranaga wrote:I'm townreading most of the big posters if you didn't notice
Uh, how does that counter what I said?
it explains my POV. if you think I'm pushing for easy mislynches, well, I wasn't the one pushing top wagons all game like you for instance.
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Post Post #959 (isolation #130) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 3:04 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 957, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 956, Toranaga wrote:
In post 952, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 951, Toranaga wrote:I'm townreading most of the big posters if you didn't notice
Uh, how does that counter what I said?
it explains my POV. if you think I'm pushing for easy mislynches, well, I wasn't the one pushing top wagons all game like you for instance.
So, your POV is to Townread the big posters and attack the low-volume guys? That was pretty much my point.

Also, nice try at deflecting back at me.
everyone I read town and scum was within reason and not for lowposting.
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Post Post #1035 (isolation #131) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:23 pm

Post by Toranaga »

hey Maria it's been a pleasure

gg have fun watching your anime
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Post Post #1036 (isolation #132) » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:25 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I never voted maria the whole d1

#lockclear

no jk, but really.
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Post Post #1042 (isolation #133) » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:10 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1039, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1036, Toranaga wrote:I never voted maria the whole d1

#lockclear

no jk, but really.
Gloating = scumtell
you know nothing
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Post Post #1054 (isolation #134) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:53 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1052, Chip Butty wrote:Seriously though, Havo demonstrated how NOT to play that role. Don't draw attention to yourself by refusing to give any reads. And then don't "softclaim" in mile-high neon letters. Unfortunately players sometimes make themselves look mafia even when town. Losing a cop, even a loyal cop, is a setback but we can recover if our remaining PRs can stay hidden and do their jobs.
and you demonstrated horrid scumhunting skills as your scum team was maria (flipped town), havo (flipped town) and me and I'm town

you really should stop grilling others now. havo claimed cause he was pushed to death to claim. and IIRC you were both on his and maria's wagon, congratulations.
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Post Post #1055 (isolation #135) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:06 am

Post by Toranaga »

AORN I have a scum team of misère, fykus and one chip, skitter or BBT

with a side of mulch cause I think he is better than what he is playing right now
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Post Post #1056 (isolation #136) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:10 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1053, Chip Butty wrote:No doubt, mafia will try to use this to get town Havo detractors lynched, so be on guard for that.
oh really chip butty

it's not scummy to get the cop mislynched is it. you're not even slightly concerned with the people that showed an equal amount of unawareness that you showed. great. TOWNIE.
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Post Post #1057 (isolation #137) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:21 am

Post by Toranaga »

actually I think this 'on guard' post is so ridiculous it can only really come from scum

vote: chip butty
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Post Post #1062 (isolation #138) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:46 am

Post by Toranaga »

I think skitter is a fine wagon fwiw
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Post Post #1063 (isolation #139) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:52 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1061, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1051, Chip Butty wrote:Celine Dion? Really? :oops: :(
Tora, you're just attacking me because I questioned Celine Dion, aren't you? I bet you're a big fan of Mariah Carey and Rick Astley too.
I'm grilling your posting cause it's not showing any skepticism in people who tried wagoning and lynching the flipped town cop. this is not townie of you.
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Post Post #1067 (isolation #140) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:03 am

Post by Toranaga »

Mulch you were as anti town as chip butty was and you two were the worst of the people pushing Havo. he did not play poorly!
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Post Post #1078 (isolation #141) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:52 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1075, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1067, Toranaga wrote:Mulch you were as anti town as chip butty was and you two were the worst of the people pushing Havo. he did not play poorly!
Are you even playing in the same game? Here, again, is how Havo played badly:

1. Creating suspicion by refusing to give any reads.
2. Ridiculously obvious "softclaim."
3. Early hardclaim.
4. Being whiny and defensive rather than asking questions, applying pressure etc

If you can't recognise that as bad play, I'm not going to consider your opinions even slightly seriously.
none of that is any bad, what's bad is threatening to lynch someone on the first 50 hours of a 14 day game.

1. you don't need to give reads if you don't have them
2. softclaiming is fine if you're getting wagoned and are afraid of getting lynched
3. he hardclaimed because people pressured him to hardclaim! mulch was screaming that he either hardclaims or dies!
4. being defensive when you're the goddamn cop is how almost every cop plays. the cop fears getting lynched and overreacts as a response.

yours and mulch's play was bad, his was fine.
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Post Post #1079 (isolation #142) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:03 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1068, Mulch wrote:
In post 1067, Toranaga wrote:Mulch you were as anti town as chip butty was and you two were the worst of the people pushing Havo. he did not play poorly!
I mean, in hindsight I was playing anti town, but only because he flipped town
it was always anti town though. don't force people to hardclaim that early ldo. look what you did man, the cop got NKed and we have no peeks now.
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Post Post #1096 (isolation #143) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:21 pm

Post by Toranaga »

hey mulch, isn't the policy 'hardclaim or die'?
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Post Post #1113 (isolation #144) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:33 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I never saw a player push the cop to hardclaim on d1 by almost getting him MAJ lynched and then act all arrogant about it later

people are generally a little more self aware than that
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Post Post #1115 (isolation #145) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:44 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1114, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1113, Toranaga wrote:I never saw a player push the cop to hardclaim on d1 by almost getting him MAJ lynched and then act all arrogant about it later

people are generally a little more self aware than that
You should probably stick to Monopoly.
little kids playing monopoly have a better grasp of reality than you do.
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Post Post #1126 (isolation #146) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:23 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1117, Chip Butty wrote:Tora, why are you voting me if you're townreading me so hard?
how am I townreading you
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Post Post #1128 (isolation #147) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:46 pm

Post by Toranaga »

explain where did I townread you this gameday
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Post Post #1131 (isolation #148) » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:15 pm

Post by Toranaga »

abysmal.
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Post Post #1140 (isolation #149) » Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:36 am

Post by Toranaga »

yeah nothing that happened when the cop was hanging by a thread is relevant
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Post Post #1154 (isolation #150) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:25 am

Post by Toranaga »

I don't think chip butty can be town.
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Post Post #1162 (isolation #151) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:51 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1157, WhyMafia wrote:Can someone explain why Chip is scum and actually pressure him because it seems like a lot of people are just saying chip is scum without trying to build a wagon
I'm voting him, just vote him
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Post Post #1171 (isolation #152) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:22 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1170, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1169, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Chip, your read on me has changed?
Yeah, a bit. More because i am interpreting things slightly differently now than anything you've done or haven't done. You're playing enigmatically by being low-activity and policy-voting, so i do retain doubts about you. I wouldn't want to go into lylo with you playing as you are, but that is someway off and with any luck we won't even get there.
what exactly are you interpreting differently? You didn't explain your read just now, you just described his play. 'I do retain doubts about you' seems weird. shouldn't you retain doubts about almost everyone? especially someone who hasn't even played and gave no reads.
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Post Post #1172 (isolation #153) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:23 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1169, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Chip, your read on me has changed?
why did you ask that btw? why would it change?
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Post Post #1177 (isolation #154) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:50 pm

Post by Toranaga »

well you're very likely mafia, chip. trying to figure out who is wolfing with you.
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Post Post #1179 (isolation #155) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:58 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1176, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1173, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Just found it strange how Chip went from wanting to lynch me to not being concerned about me.

He didn't answer how that changed and instead just waffled about playstyle.
All right then. I thought maybe you're playing the way you are because you're a PR and i didn't want to probe too hard. Happy?
hahahaha

the cop is dead. you helped getting him outed. you specifically did this after he softed a PR. we also have a miller claim and mulch sends ITEMS, now you think BBT is a PR? and that's how you're starting to actually town read him, although ofc you're villagery enough to 'retain doubts about' him. very inquisitive.

BBT is playing in a way that actually brings attention to himself as suspicious and should get him wagoned and lynched, and you're town PR reading that slot!
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Post Post #1182 (isolation #156) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:18 pm

Post by Toranaga »

chip: you got town lynched. you literally spent days hanging with a maria vote and started doing work on fykus and townreading him after his wagon took off. not only did you get town lynched, you also got town to hardclaim cop! and you also think I'm scum, and I'm also town! nothing you did in this game was townie or pro-town at any point.
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Post Post #1183 (isolation #157) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:19 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1181, Chip Butty wrote:As for PR claims, are they confirmed?
the flipped cop that you outed is confirmed.
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Post Post #1184 (isolation #158) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:26 pm

Post by Toranaga »

chip butty logic:

2 real days into a two week gameday, wagons a player for not having 'reads', player softs a pr: HARDCLAIM OR DIE!

DAY 2 of the same game with flipped COP: I better not probe a slot who isn't playing and has no reads cause he might be a PR!
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Post Post #1190 (isolation #159) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:39 pm

Post by Toranaga »

Mulch's claim was literally checked by WM because he got a fucking item from Mulch. and Mulch is probably the miller. I'm not ACCEPTING SO READILY anything, there's just a very high likelihood these players have these roles. Mulch can totally still be mafia FWIW. but your town PR read of BBT because he is not even playing is the most made up ridiculous wolfy thing I ever read. this is a 13er with a dead cop, there's no way BBT is anything important anymore. the important role you outed.

also einstein, if Havo was already NK bait, why didn't you just leave him alone to see if he drawed a night kill or not? It's the difference between just handing information to scum, and letting them decide. you handed scum the perfect NK, and you don't think there's anything wrong with it! it's Havo's fault!

and yeah you got a wagon out of havo that you don't even wanna read into TROLOLOL my god can we just MAJ lynch this chip butty guy please.
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Post Post #1191 (isolation #160) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:40 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I meant WM is probably the miller up there.
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Post Post #1193 (isolation #161) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:43 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1189, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:VOTE: Chip

This seems pretty good. A lot of his posts are coming across as LAMIST
that's very true.
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Post Post #1195 (isolation #162) » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:45 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1194, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1189, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:VOTE: Chip

This seems pretty good. A lot of his posts are coming across as LAMIST
Yeah, well if you're not a PR, you're back to being scum.
^^^

if this doesn't get lynched today you guys are the worst
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Post Post #1199 (isolation #163) » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:42 am

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1197, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1195, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1194, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1189, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:VOTE: Chip

This seems pretty good. A lot of his posts are coming across as LAMIST
Yeah, well if you're not a PR, you're back to being scum.
^^^

if this doesn't get lynched today you guys are the worst
~You're tunnelling~
then vote fykus with me

vote: fykus
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Post Post #1211 (isolation #164) » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:42 am

Post by Toranaga »

I have given mulch a lot of crap for Havo as well, there was even a whole thing between us where you went 'wow guys that was amazing! if you're both scum congratulations'. but apparently you already forgot.
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Post Post #1215 (isolation #165) » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:59 pm

Post by Toranaga »

death note is rad
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Post Post #1264 (isolation #166) » Sat Sep 23, 2017 7:16 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1243, Mulch wrote:
In post 1190, Toranaga wrote:why didn't you just leave him alone to see if he drawed a night kill or not?
This is obvious, so that if he was scum he woulden't be able to make up a random claim later...this has been explained multiple times and it's worrysome that you aren't comprehending this
HAHAHAHA

if it's so obvious when he softclaimed, why did he got to L-1? that was your push too. if he was scum, he wouldn't draw a NK so we could determine his allignment later. why push for a hardclaim then? super anti-town, it's 'worrysome' that you refuse to accept it as such.
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Post Post #1266 (isolation #167) » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:10 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1265, Mulch wrote:
In post 1264, Toranaga wrote:if it's so obvious when he softclaimed,
When did I say this? Your misrepresenting me. The point was that it wasn't obvious and that's why he needed to hardclaim.
he did not need to hardclaim anything that early, no. you needed to stfu and protect potential PRs instead of outing them.
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Post Post #1267 (isolation #168) » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:11 pm

Post by Toranaga »

there wasn't even any fucking case against him, it was just lack of reads super early in the game. total bullshit pressure and I'd be hard scumreading both of you if I knew you enough to respect your games.
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Post Post #1311 (isolation #169) » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:45 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I did not vote havo after he softclaimed. I voted him before, 100 posts in, for thin reasons and saying he was likely a villager. when I returned to the thread, you maniacs had already put him in L-1. this was my vote on havo:
In post 109, Toranaga wrote:
In post 107, MariaR wrote:
In post 104, Toranaga wrote:thank you Maria :) I'm an old player, back when 2+2 community POG was the best place for mafia. RVS was never a thing, I actually don't know what RVS stands for, I just know it refers to randomly voting people. our games used to have 12 hour day, 12 hour night times...
It stands for (R)andom (V)oting (S)tage basically people random vote until people see something they don't like and the vote becomes real and talk happens. Also 12 hour days and nights? The FUCK?????? holy shit lol ok thank you. Can you try to give a sentence on your tr's and sr's for me.
Pedit: I didn't mean worrying as in "wow you're scummy" I meant it in townreading people so easy isn't good at least in my mind because everyone has time to type out posts and plan and where your from that isn't really a thing. I know you just talked about your reads but more detail would be nice.
Pedit 2: I mean I can give you half assed reads if you wished it's not hard to out reads on gut feelings you have but if you ask me "who do you confidently tr" I'd say no one.
alright I can expand on my townreads anyway:

Mulch: I enjoy the forthcoming defense of whymafia the way he did it. while the level of confidence in his read may seem excessive/TMIish, I think he actually presented strong reasons and I'm sure I'd be strong defending that slot if I knew it wasn't the type of player who would come up with miller claiming d1 strategy as scum. I find his -nasty- comment on a player townie back in the previous page, and I can't really expand on it without discussing things that shouldn't be discussed. I also like his tone overrall, seems relaxed and flowing well with the thread.

Monkey: this is already 90%ish town in my book (notice =rand is 75% or something). Monkey is strong reading into everything and is coming to the game with an objectively suspicious mindset. I don't think his position on the miller claim is anything to read him or anyone else for, but I do agree with misère his refusal to soften the stance is villagery. I enjoy that he actually clicked and tried reading the games Mulch pasted for him, it shows he is not faking his engagement and is excited to read into the game and solve it. There's some tonal phrasing kinda stuff that's thin, but it's there and it's villagery too.

WhyMafia: I think claiming miller the way he did it makes him miller almost everytime. Other than that, his reaction to pressure is very villagery, as he is showing a mindset of carelessness that people are scumreading him for his claim. He doesn't seem too concerned with convincing people he is miller, which would be an angle he'd probably go for if he planned to claim miller d1 SOD in the first place. His 'don't be lazy, read me for my posting not my claim' is always townie mindset. If I'm wrong about this I'll at least enjoy the fact that this is my first game here :P

I'll expand on Fykus at some other time. It's nothing particularly good so far. Let's call it a tone read for now.

Also I probably like the way you're interacting with me here, so I'm just gonna:

VOTE: Havo
with misère :)
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Post Post #1312 (isolation #170) » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:48 pm

Post by Toranaga »

my 'lie'

I never pressured anyone to hardclaim and I would never vote anyone to get lynched so early in the game. I was the second vote on havo, and before I realised he was L-1. you're all ridiculous comparing that goddamn stupidity of trying to get the guy lynched with my early vote on him. what I did can't be read as agenda driven as the insanity from everyone else.
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Post Post #1313 (isolation #171) » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:50 pm

Post by Toranaga »

when I voted Havo, he wasn't softclaiming and my reasons were noticeably weak, and I told him he'd be 50-60% likely to be a villager.
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Post Post #1314 (isolation #172) » Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:55 pm

Post by Toranaga »

O HE SCUMSLIPPED

pffft

hardclaim odd night tracker. tracked fykus last night, he didn't go anywhere.

at this point fykus, chip, mulch, skitter and misère probably contain all the wolves in the game.

won't leave the game out of respect but this is the opposite of fun.
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Post Post #1317 (isolation #173) » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:00 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1296, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Right now, Toranaga is pending on how he deals with that lie. Because it looks like he's making up reasons to push against someone and the process is not organic. Certainly scummy, but that's less scummy than what I saw Fykus do around the MariaR lynch. So I'm doing a Fykus lynch.
do you not understand the difference between a vote on someone 100 posts into the game that's the second vote on that person, and wagoning the shit out of the same player, and keep wagoning the shit out of that player after he softclaims a PR? of course wagoning Havo was bullshit, and i'm calling out the people who were so satisfied in getting the guy to hardclaim for absolute shit reasons. I was never ok with any Havo wagon, I was just not here when all the events took place that led to that stupid L-1 situation.
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Post Post #1321 (isolation #174) » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:08 pm

Post by Toranaga »

we are lynching fykus because scummy people are defending him and he voted and wagoned villagers d1. he also was the last vote on maria, and that was a wolfy vote. and mulch conveniently 'realised' it was the hammer vote 30 minutes later. I'm not buying anything mulch says anymore and I'm dying to lynch fykus who he soft defended the whole game.
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Post Post #1326 (isolation #175) » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:13 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I never pressured anyone to claim anything, I'd never play so poorly. I'm 100% calling out people for things I didn't and wouldn't do even as scum because I'm used to people reading hard into openwolfing like this.
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Post Post #1331 (isolation #176) » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:15 pm

Post by Toranaga »

WHY TRACK FYKUS

WHY TRACK THE DUDE THAT HAMMERED A VILLAGER LAST GAMEDAY AND I ALREADY READ HIM AS SCUM BEFORE

WHY WHY OH GOD WHY

you fucking guys!
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Post Post #1332 (isolation #177) » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:15 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1329, humaneatingmonkey wrote:He wasn't. He was conscious in his decision to stay because he found Havo's softclaim as voteworthy, even.
I did not do this at all LOL
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Post Post #1334 (isolation #178) » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:17 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 97, Toranaga wrote:
In post 72, Havo wrote:I have zero experience with a Miller best I can remember. The site I used to play at never used them that I recall.

So Wiki says they are a negative role and usually used to counter or lessen the power of the town cop. And the correct play is to claim early although it's debatable.

And I think a good argument has been made by both sides or at least I can see both sides.

I would hate to have to resolve the slot in LyLo tho. But my gut says scum wouldn't do this on D1.
As the Wiki says the claim usually gets lynched or night killed anyway. Or maybe that was one of you guys that said it.
I haven't found any reasonable argument against openclaiming. I wouldn't do it with certain player fields that I am confident to read me well, and I can see an argument for not claiming if you're trying to keep cop equity and if your kill create cop hunt cleared town. The fact is, claiming miller on later gamedays isn't as believable, and claiming miller after getting peeked scum will get you lynched everytime. Certain players with certain fields in certain games can play it in a different way, but this is not the game for that.

I wanna say this post is a little scummy. Bare in mind this is extremely thin, and I don't want to out all the reasons for it. But this is too much commentary instead of adding something to the discussion. Your post is fine otherwise, I get where you're coming from etc. Just think it comes more from scum than town.
this was the fucking reasoning I had for voting Havo
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Post Post #1336 (isolation #179) » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:18 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I'm sorry guys. I'm not used to this level of play or the way you use logic. I'm not used to 2 week long gamedays. it's weird. I apologise for getting annoyed.
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Post Post #1354 (isolation #180) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:25 am

Post by Toranaga »

I honestly feel really bad for flipping on y'all yesterday. let's try lynching a wolf. it could be misère after all. why is she wolfy? why not fykus instead? why is chip villagery?
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Post Post #1376 (isolation #181) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:21 pm

Post by Toranaga »

vote: chip
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Post Post #1378 (isolation #182) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:27 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1377, Chip Butty wrote:
In post 1376, Toranaga wrote:
vote: chip
That's laughably OMGUS, dude.
^ we're lynching this. at this point of the game, to say I'm OMGUSing him. whatever. get lynched chip.
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Post Post #1379 (isolation #183) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:28 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1357, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1354, Toranaga wrote:I honestly feel really bad for flipping on y'all yesterday. let's try lynching a wolf. it could be misère after all. why is she wolfy? why not fykus instead? why is chip villagery?
Misere is wolfy for offering little and being present on a town flip and being among the rather sketchy Havo pushers.
Fykus, well, there is his current hum drum, I suppose, but has at least felt more involved to me than Misere - this is basically a rotten tomato to a rotten egg, neither are pleasent, both stink, but I can say which I'd much rather be hit by.
Chip looked good Day 1. He looks pretty bad Day 2. I'm choosing to guardedly lean him as maybe a person I don't like rather than particularly obv. scum though, as most of what I don't like is his tone more than the specific thoughts he's pushing, and I did rather like him Day 1 - so the idea that he's more pissy today tends to softly suggest to me he's town as town is the one doing the sucking this game (also I think he is feeling raw about Havo and working overtime to suggest Havo is terrible to salve himself - which also feels like a potential town mindset)

What are your thoughts on the three?
I think fykus has been soft or hard defended by a lot of people when his entire play so far has been objectively pro-scum and I don't see anything townie about him. Misère has done scummy stuff but everyone wants to lynch her, so I'm highly skeptical.

Chip has to be scum at this point. he stopped making any sense a long time ago and everything he pushes is illogical and anti-town.
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Post Post #1381 (isolation #184) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:34 pm

Post by Toranaga »

1182 - are you positing Chip/Fykus/??? Because I don't get your point about Fykus otherwise?
1190 - this is basically exactly what i'm thinking lolololol
1199 - why are you tryng to get chip to work with you on a fykus wagon here? Especially cuz it seems your fykus scumread is partially colored by the fact that chip was defending him?
1264 - this lolololol

lemme respond to this:

I think it's chip, mulch and fykus yes. and I wanted to see if chip would ever vote fykus here, which he won't, which makes me feel better about it.
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Post Post #1382 (isolation #185) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:36 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1364, skitter30 wrote:
In post 1358, Chip Butty wrote:So Toranaga has been caught in a lie, and you're just going to disregard that?
I don't think he lied.

He votes Havo in and is the second vote on the wagon.
HEM is the third vote in .
Tor posts at 11:36am
WM is the fourth vote in .
You're the fifth vote in
I'm the sixth vote in .
Havo softs in at 3:40pm.
Tor switches his vote in at 4pm.

The Havo wagon developed from L-4 to L-1 in around five hours, and he wasn't around for the second half of the wagon. He unvoted in his next post after the soft.

Given that he wasn't here when that happened, and unvoted at the first opportunity, and this whole thing unfolded over like five hours, I don't think you can fault him for being on the wagon when it go to L-1 even if he disagreed with the later votes.
chip just read this. if you still think I should be pushed for whatever you're saying I contradicted myself with, then I'm sorry. I'm not gonna engage in the same weak ass push over and over again.

also, get lynched please.
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Post Post #1383 (isolation #186) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:37 pm

Post by Toranaga »

love skitter's work. lock town.
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Post Post #1385 (isolation #187) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:47 pm

Post by Toranaga »

zzzzzzzzzzz
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Post Post #1388 (isolation #188) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:54 pm

Post by Toranaga »

chip: yes just like that, you know why? he is pushing scum hard and intelligently.
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Post Post #1389 (isolation #189) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:56 pm

Post by Toranaga »

kinda think BBT is town reacting to chip btw

rest of your reads list is good skitter
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Post Post #1392 (isolation #190) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:03 pm

Post by Toranaga »

oh skitter if you were always as analytical as that we'd have a different game in our hands now. I was almost checking out of the game mentally lol.
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Post Post #1396 (isolation #191) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:24 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I just skimmed Mulch's ISO and is pretty much exclusively pushing town. we should never lynch misère, for no other reason, because Mulch wants that.
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Post Post #1397 (isolation #192) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:26 pm

Post by Toranaga »

yeah that's good. chip and mulch wagons FTW.
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Post Post #1401 (isolation #193) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:29 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I agree we shouldn't lynch fykus this gameday. good point HEM.
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Post Post #1403 (isolation #194) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:31 pm

Post by Toranaga »

learn to accept a compliment though.
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Post Post #1405 (isolation #195) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:34 pm

Post by Toranaga »

what role 'sends items' btw
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Post Post #1407 (isolation #196) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:38 pm

Post by Toranaga »

In post 1405, Toranaga wrote:what role 'sends items' btw
^talking about mulch

I suck at mechanics but I'm theorizing 5 is too many claimable roles. so let's say it's something like:

havo loyal cop
me odd night tracker
fykus even night tracker
WM miller

and then mulch sends items too? is that too much?
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Post Post #1409 (isolation #197) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:42 pm

Post by Toranaga »

if he is anything, he is even night tracker. I tracked him and he didn't go anywhere last night. but eh that wasn't really the point of my post :P
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Post Post #1410 (isolation #198) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:43 pm

Post by Toranaga »

he sent WM an item and WM doesn't know what it is and never disclosed anything.
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Post Post #1412 (isolation #199) » Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:48 pm

Post by Toranaga »

ok just saw this 'fruit vendor' role and it's NAI.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Visitor
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