Mini 1939 - Organization XIII (Game Over)

[VII Saix]

Hi...Tomorrow busy. Will read and post over the weekend.

[VII Saix]

Up-to-date now.
My reads are based on how logical posts were imo...
Town (green) to null (white) to Scum (red):

1 Xem, 5 Lex, 6 Zex

2 Xig, 12 Larx

3 Xal, 10 Lux

4 Vex, 8 Axel, 9 Demyx, 11 Marlux, 13 Rox

Town

/

Townlean

:

1 Xemnas: mod conf town

5 Lexaeus, 6 Zexion: Liked the interaction-interrogation session on P2-3 between these two. Liked how they started from opposite ends of the spectrum and merged at a common point. Seemed natural.
Individually speaking, I thought Zex was reading a bit too deep into Rox's posts (especially 47), but that could be the town presumptuousness. Liked how Zex got Lex's pov (53). Liked it coz it was exactly what I thought about Lex's post.
Have liked Lex's posts the most in the game so far. Logical, sorted, pushing the inactive slots, etc.

2 Xigbar: Mild townlean only coz of their valid and logical post 37.

12 Larxene: Her claim is pro-town. A scum invest-immune doesn't gain much by claiming, at such early stages. On the other hand, it's a weak town role if any, so if she is a scum invest-immune, she had to be a really audacious/even defensive player to claim so early. Clubbed with this however are other things that make her a stronger townlean for me. She dislikes 4 Vex and clears 10 Lux for exactly the same points that I found valid in Vex's and Lux's behaviour. Suggests logic at work.

Null:

3 Xaldin: There's nothing to analyse here.

10 Lux: I was scumreading Lux for fluffposting till I read his excel notes. No one goes to that extent as a scum. His notes serve as a good enough evidence for me to believe he is a town. But his other posts have been shaky. So, overall, null. Actually I wanna shift him to townlean. Will see what happens.

Scum:

4 Vexen: Vex's posts seem confident but the logic is haywire. Like the earlier post in 39 clearing 12 Larx.

8 Axel, 9 Demyx: Fluffs. Coasters.

11 Marluxia: I really didn't like their 77 where they are shading 10 Lux. Their points for shading Lux also are invalid acc to me. There's a possibility that I might be wrong about them, but I am not revealing the reason.

13 Roxas: Their 30 reads genuine where they want to be targeted, but otherwise everything they have posted so far is scummy. I don't like who they are presumptuous regarding clearing 12 Larx. I also didn't like their later posts where they are defending obv town and obv scum. It's circular and rhetorical. Why is Larx obvtown (68)? Coz they are obviously town? Really? Thought some worm was crawling inside my brain. Also, didn't like the way they have been defending their posts (69).

[VII Saix]

It's not that strange considering it's just P5 and very little content, but I can arrange them in a hierarchy of sorts..
From Scumlean to Scum: Axel, Demyx < Vexen < Marluxia, Roxas.
Axel and Demyx are closer to the null pile coz there's nothing much to go by. Why are they not in null then? They have not contributed anything despite having the opportunity to do so. I could most likely push them to the null pile, if they made more sense to me.
Marluxia and Roxas are at the top for the aforementioned reasons, but if I had to make a choice I will vote for Marluxia coz of Rox's semi-claim.
These are pretty prelim reads, so I am not ready for a vote yet.
The problematic parts of 69 were these:

all I have right now is a pretty baseless post calling someone "obviously town" and someone else "just scum" (quote marks for precision not for mockery) on page 2 which are ridiculous positions to hold this early.

How so? Larxene is in fact obviously town. Luxord is just scum. Those were the most apt descriptions to use. The terms were accurate. And, counter-question.

There are no interactions with other slots.

Why didn't you interact with my slot? You didn't bother to ask me why I held those stances. I am perfectly capable of explaining them (and in the case of Luxord I am actively doing so), yet you went in and did the very thing you were accusing me of.

VOTE: 6 Zex
As someone who has no flavor knowledge, all of the names are frustratingly similar.

This is a continued instance of not actually providing game content.

When I said Luxord was "just scum", I meant it. Because this is not town.

The 1st and 3rd para are examples of circular logic.
The 2nd para is a bit of an over-reaction.
All 3 of the paras (and Rox's earlier responses) felt like uttered by an over-conscious or self-aware player. It's an observation that usually extra powerful roles are confident and don't get hassled this easily.

[VII Saix]

Further to my previous post:
I would not like to vote for Marluxia too.
I can't really vote for even my top scumreads. But let's say they are in the scum pile coz there's something about them that's bothering me.
So, no, I can't really differentiate between these 5 at the moment.

[VII Saix]

12 Larxene: Her claim is pro-town. A scum invest-immune doesn't gain much by claiming, at such early stages. On the other hand, it's a weak town role if any, so if she is a scum invest-immune, she had to be a really audacious/even defensive player to claim so early. Clubbed with this however are other things that make her a stronger townlean for me. She dislikes 4 Vex and clears 10 Lux for exactly the same points that I found valid in Vex's and Lux's behaviour. Suggests logic at work.

Do you not get the impression that, regardless of their alignment, that they are an audacious/defensive player?
What reasoning did she really give that wasn't just reiterations of stuff that other people had said?

Will ISO her tomorrow and get back to you. Late night here.

[VII Saix]

Axel, you are essentially omgus-ing coz there's no reason accompanying your vote.
Why am I likely to be a scum is the reasoning I am looking for. Otherwise, it's a lazy vote and doesn't help the game in any way. If you really think I am scum, the motivation needs to be to take me to L, and you aren't gonna achieve that with this post and such a vote.
I ISO'd you after your suggestion that you have contributed enough. So in a nutshell here's you in the game so far. 7 posts so far. Your behaviour is quite suspicious in following ways.
- You have had no original thought till now in the game. You are responding to questions, or you are asking others some questions or you are responding to someone's vote or a post or an interaction by giving a verdict (case in point: all your posts exemplify this to a lesser or greater extent). This isn't what a townie looks like to me. Of course it's likely you are still finding your feet and you are under pressure to produce content even as a town, but right now you are coming across as a newb scum who doesn't know how to assimilate himself in the game.
- Expanding on this, if you give a verdict, I wanna know the reason behind it. Analysis rather than verdicts. For example, if you enjoy Marl's posts for their content, I wanna know what appealed to you and why. If you think Xig-Rox is tvt, why?
- Some of your reads are so conflicting with mine that I am compelled to question your thought process. I understand having an opposite view doesn't necessarily make you a scum for me, but coupled with unsubstantiated reads, it comes across as way too off. Like your reason for voting Zex and giving a reason for that as lack of progression of thought disturbs me on two levels. First, I don't understand what you mean by 'progression of thought' and you don't elaborate it, and second, how is 'progression of thought' then reflected in your posts if that's what you are expecting from others.

I guess I am saying the same thing in three different ways. So here's the concise point. You need to do 3 things. 1. elaborate your posts, 2. give a reason for your verdicts, and 3. your expectations from others need to reflect in your own playstyle.

[VII Saix]

It's tiring to keep asking people for explaining their statements.
People, I don't have the key to your thoughts. It literally takes just one additional sentence to explain what you are saying.
For ex., Luxord's "I think Axel's OMGUS is definitely not scummy, and maybe even a tiny bit towny." should definitely come with a footnote. And so should a lot of other statements of other players. If you are a town and people are to understand you, you should care about this. Don't use your brevity at the wrong place.

[VII Saix]

I think the worst player this game is also the mod conf town Xemnas. Zero contribution. High time he deserved a prod.

[VII Saix]

VOTE: Axel

[VII Saix]

Who is opposed to Axel lynch and why?
This decision can't happen closer to the deadline. Scurrying for a legit lynch at the last moment will results in a mislynch.

[VII Saix]

Who is opposed to Axel lynch and why?

If you really think I am scum, the motivation needs to be to take me to L, and you aren't gonna achieve that with this post and such a vote.

This decision can't happen closer to the deadline.

11 days to deadline.

Tell me right now what town player actually worries about getting a

certain

lynch - rather than

A

lynch - 11 days before the deadline.

If you are highlighting the time frame of 11 days here, I think it's just the way of looking at it from two different positions. I see this as a week gone rather than 11 days remaining.

If you are highlighting the 'certain vs a' point, either I haven't understood what you are saying or you are not privy to how I think. I don't understand why a scum would vote for a specific player. A scum will be happy lynching anyone. A townie on the other hand will always vote for a specific player based on their suspicions. So, I don't see your point at all.

About scumreading you: I have already given my reasons for this, which were mild/weak then, but they have only got stronger. You are openly coasting and fluffing. There's literally no content in your posts (don't feel offended, but I have to be honest). Add to that your reasoning for scumreading me which seems more like retaliatory than substantive. In fact, the only doubt in my mind right now is whether a scum will be so openly casual in their approach. But I have burnt my fingers enough times second-guessing myself. If I have to read you as a town, it will be based only on how much efforts you put in, and not based on your lack of effort.

[VII Saix]

VOTE: Saix

I really feel like quoting goodmorning here, but Effort is NAI.

Efforts in terms of posts could be NAI, but efforts in terms of scumhunting is very much AI.

The fact is that you're saying you're tunneled on Axel because fluffposting and lack of effort while I see nothing to suggest you're actually looking for motivations. This is at best lazy posting, and at worst posting actively looking to slip under the radar. You haven't said ANYTHING about anyone not named Axel since page five, and the amount of certainty compared to the 'evidence' on Axel is frankly garbo.

Convince me Axel's scum, cause your 144 just seems like a big ball of nulltells on Axel and hypocrisy from you, and I'm not seeing a more cohesive case from you.

You are contradicting yourself here. How is your vote on me any different from my vote on Axel? All that you have summarised is wrong with my tunnel on Axel is also wrong with your tunnel and vote on me.

What's worrying is that you are not able to see how whatever you have wrote as a case on me
- is also wrong with Axel (in your words - "fluffposting, lack of effort, lazy posting, posting actively, certainty compared to evidence", etc.), and,
- is also wrong with you (if my vote on Axel is bad, so is your vote on me, coz there's nothing in that post and vote that you are seeking from me. In your words, "hypocrisy and lack of a cohesive case on someone".

I am guessing you are going along with certain convictions/instincts as town (if you are one) with your vote on me despite not having a case on me. So am I in case of Axel.

[VII Saix]

*have written

[VII Saix]

In fact, I would like to hear more why you (Vexen) are defending him and why you think he is a town.

[VII Saix]

Saix has a point in that we've all been fucking out for pretty much the entirety of the day; don't quite understand why he feels that slamming through a lynch now as opposed to better decreases our chances of mislynching somehow.

I wasn't suggesting lynching right away, but to create a consensus around it. The game had stalled and needed some shaking up.
There are 6 lynch contenders or even more, so it's gonna take us time to sort it out. Especially this day when we need 7 votes for L. 11 days seem a lot but will be gone swiftly.

[VII Saix]

Although, Saix, if you're so concerned about the looming deadline, why haven't you given an opinion on Xaldin yet?

Did you ask me about my opinion on them? I missed that. I will need to ISO them.

[VII Saix]

What's worrying is that you are not able to see how whatever you have wrote as a case on me
- is also wrong with Axel (in your words - "fluffposting, lack of effort, lazy posting, posting actively, certainty compared to evidence", etc.), and,
- is also wrong with you (if my vote on Axel is bad, so is your vote on me, coz there's nothing in that post and vote that you are seeking from me. In your words, "hypocrisy and lack of a cohesive case on someone".

What case on you? If saying your push on Axel is hot garbo amounts to a case now, than ms has reeeeally gone downhill.

1. Let's not drag MS's quality into it. It's immaterial right now.

As far as why that's probably scum coming from you over scum coming from Axel: You're saying it's likely to be scum. That, right there, is the rub. You clearly think the behavior that you as scum are doing is scummy. And you're trying to push a lynch through based on that behavior. It's not the fluffposting that I see as a problem.

2. How is your behaviour any different from mine, Vex?
You do not a hell lot on me and yet you voted for me. But for voting for me, you give a reason that I voted for someone on whom I didn't have much to begin with.
Do you see the contradiction now?

3. In your post 1, you vote for me and give a weak reason. Then I say something in response to that. In your post 2, instead of justifying your vote and weak reason you have on me from your post 1, you start talking about my response post, which has chronologically come after your vote. I would like to hear what made you vote for me in the first place, without using the crutches of the scumminess I display in my response post - which has come after you voted - to justify your vote. Scums do this very often. They project their suspicions on X, X says something in response to that, and the scum uses these subsequent response posts to justify their original suspicion. I won't let that happen to me this game.

As far as Axel's alignment goes, I haven't the foggiest. That's pretty much the reason I asked you why you were voting him in 306, which I'd still like you to respond to, btw. I just feel that your overconfidence, hypocrisy, and dismissal of literally every other player you have to read is probably scum. I'm adding the tu quoque, loaded question, and fact you ignored me until I suspected you to the list of reasons your role pm is red as well, btw.

4. If you don't have the foggiest, maybe you should ISO them and me and read our interactions. But just to give you a summary, I posted a wall of reads in which I mentioned Axel as scumlean, following which Axel erupted and omgused. Even after the repeated suggestion to him to improve his game, from me and from others, there wasn't much content in their posts. They are questioning and responding, but where are their reads about the game, except about their read on me, which has no content but just omgus kind of tone.

Yes, I do not have much on Axel right now, but it's all relative judgement anyway, especially on D1. Right now, even if I have less on Axel than necessary, it's the max I have on anyone, so I have gone ahead with my suspicions. I asked openly about deadline and lynching Axel coz I wanna know how much traction there is for that lynch. If not, I will need to focus on my second most suspicious person in the hierarchy.

5. My 'overconfidence, hypocrisy and dismissal of other players' are your perceptions. It doesn't matter what you think of me, but since we are playing a game and are hopefully on the same side, I just wanna say that you read me wrongly.

[VII Saix]

Vexen, wanna confirm that I have read your post. I would have replied back, but I don't think this is gonna go anywhere. We are not only on different pages, we are in different books. You go look for your story, and I will look for mine.

Your slot was already on my scum lean list, and it's only gone up by your recent burst of excitement.

[VII Saix]

[VII Saix]

What about Axel's contribution?

[VII Saix]

Zex, kinda disappointed with your conversation with Xig about me, but never mind. I am sure you have your reasons for doubting me, but I thought there was some kinda mutual town block thing happening between us.

About Vex, I was already scum-reading his slot. The he replaced and somehow tracked me down for a one-on-one with Axel because of my post on Axel. There are a number of reasons that pinged me badly, but the worst were the following, which I have already outlined in my interactions with him. But here's the gist.
1. he found my lack of a case on Axel as a good enough reason to vote for me, but he himself never provided a good enough reason for placing his vote on me. All that he said about me could also be said about Vex's reasons about scumreading me. I don't buy his explanation regarding he was reaction-testing me initially but then my reaction actually made him vote for me. I think he wanted to make a splash with his entry and my post happened to be around the corner for him to bump into, and he took it off from there.
2. Axel is worst of between me and him (Axel) if it came to deciding where to put his vote. For someone to disregard that and say that they don't have a clue on Axel's slot, but they have a clue abt me without reading what happened in the game before they entered, is a bit much. It tells me that they have probably made up their opinion how they want to go ahead with their interaction with me.
3. I have already said that because my posts are a certain way, scum usually find it easy to target me. What usually happens is they say something provocative, and I react to that provocation, and then instead of justifying their reasons behind the provocation, they start using my reaction as a justification. This is wrong coz they are changing the chronology of the narrative. This has happened a lot with me, and scums usually do that, coz frankly it's way too tempting. So, instead of defending myself, I have learnt to put this reason out there the first time I sense it. So that this doesn't spiral out of control, and I can save my slot the moment I see it going downhill. Coz the longer you wait hoping that either that person sees reason or coz someone else will see how the narrative is being changed, the narrative has already been changed. In that changed narrative, it starts appearing like my slot is fighting tooth and nail and defending way too much.

To summarise, Vex's behaviour in that interaction was scummy coz he was way too rigid about his stance on me (and without reasons) and way too cavalier about Axel, and he couldn't see how that was contradictory.

Marluxia, I ISO'd Xaldin. There's absolutely nothing to say. That slot has done nothing. He isn't even making an effort. There are only a few detailed posts, but these posts are mostly centred around himself, how others' votes on him are opportunistic, etc (e.g. 219). I dont like that. But I would like to give him some more time.

[VII Saix]

2nd para: "for a one-on-one

with Axel

"

[VII Saix]

None may replace me.

Mod, possible to please disregard posts such as these and prod Xemnas? it's between more than 48 hours since their penultimate post and even that was content-wise zilch.

If someone is a conf town, they better be more active and involved. This slot is idle.

[VII Saix]

between

[VII Saix]

Luxord, you are voting me coz I "..come off with this air of confidence but there's always this self doubt"... but how can I ever be sure? It's D1 and anyway I am not an investigative role. So, my confidence levels will never be 100% in this game regarding a slot.

To everyone, if you are town, I expect you to provide reasons along with the read so that I can better defend myself. If you are not gonna do that, that's deliberately vague coz it gives me no space to defend myself.

[VII Saix]

Wait, Xaldin and me? What gave you that idea? I am interested to know why I am being scumpaired with Xaldin.

[VII Saix]

I feel like Saix is one of those reads that I'm always going to get wrong because I always underestimate him and always want to like him and that makes everything screwy for me.

In case you have figured out my identity and you are referring to that specific game where your trust in my slot was unfounded, I must say I am really really sorry for that game, and I felt guilty long after that. I take this as a compliment though that I can screw up with someone as good and experienced a player as you. Except in here, coz here I am not even trying to do that, and here it might turn out to be a liability.

I think you should stop second guessing yourself, and go with what you feel is correct intuitively. I would suggest even if your choice is to vote for me, that's fine.

[VII Saix]

I ISO'd Xaldin. There's absolutely nothing to say. That slot has done nothing. He isn't even making an effort. There are only a few detailed posts, but these posts are mostly centred around himself, how others' votes on him are opportunistic, etc (e.g. 219). I dont like that. But I would like to give him some more time.

This is very much something that you see scum say about a wagoned scumbuddy when they don't want to bus.

Well, all I can say is that I don't fit into the generic mould you have set for a scum.
And the question of bussing Xaldin doesn't even arise when I have better scumtells on Axel and Vex. With Xaldin's current profile, I will not vote for them even if he is at L-1 and we go into night with no lynch. I am very stubborn that way. I cannot propagate your version of this game. I will not get into herd mentality despite having no reads on them. I will only try to gather support for my version of the game (hence, the open question regarding Axel lynch), and maybe support only those lynches which I am scumleaning on. If that's scummy, so be it.

[VII Saix]

Zexion, go through new!Luxord's progression on myself and the Xaldin slot.

Just for the record, new!Lux are quite a scumbum. Scumlean on them. I didn't like their interaction with me.

[VII Saix]

Do you realise that at this point with your unabashed antipathy for Xaldin, an alive scum!Xaldin could be the only reason that you would be spared on N1?

[VII Saix]

Give him time to defend/claim.

[VII Saix]

I have nothing more substantial to contribute at this point.

[VII Saix]

Zex (and everyone else who can heed to reason), you need to unvote Xaldin. The readiness with which their wagon has escalated shold tell you something about them. This has happened post Axel's wagon derailing, and I think the scums have jumped on Xald's wagon and accelerated it. You need to get your vote off, buddy.

Xald is unsatisfactory, but not actually scummy. Or even if scummy, less so than Axel. Stick to your vote in the end if it leads to no lynch, or even if Xald doesn't perform. But it really is coming across as PL for a lacklustre performance rather than actual scumminess on Xald's part.

[VII Saix]

Saïx I think your read on Xaldin is pretty genuine but you've got it backwards; wagon speed isn't a good indicator in this case; let live and be free, come join me on this ~wagon of glory~ <3

Sorry, i have done this before (voting for someone coz my townread asked me to) and repented. I don't have enough reason to vote against him, so, no. The only reason i will vote for him is if we are in danger of going to no lynch or if he does something scummy.
In the meanwhile, possible for you to come back on axel? Why did you leave when you find him scummy?

[VII Saix]

I should stop reading Xemnas's posts. Bolded words strung together.

[VII Saix]

Rox, what was the point of the charade?
Someone needs to unvote!

[VII Saix]

................why?

coz it's not deadline yet. we have 3 more days.

[VII Saix]

Lol okay Xemnas.

Claim (in part) novice gladiator

No one investigate zexion because I will Lynch someone who claims an innocent on her. Have the 1v1 you want then zex

Yeah town had a gladiator in TTH's last game it makes a lot of sense that scum would get one this time around; looking forward to the wall war motherfucker. Like the way you were posturing around me being town was just super weak, I'm glad you claimed because at least now I know you've lost this game since even if you somehow manage to lynch me tomorrow (and I haven't been lynched in I don't know how long) then you're gone day 3 and scumbud B the day after.

@Vexen

basically it's rolemadness + he's not posting + yeah I'm an impatient one.

What am I missing? Why is it likely that scum get a gladiator this time around? Are you basing this statement on probability? Coz that would be misguided with just 2 events, which are independent.
I don't like this post unfortunately. This much confidence is unfounded. But I am hoping this was said in the heat of the moment than actually meant.

[VII Saix]

I have decided long back that I am not gonna do the suspects' work for them by defending them. So, Xaldin you need to rescue yourself. But everyone who is voting for them should ISO them rather than voting based on impressions. This is the least a town should be doing.

[VII Saix]

Rox, what was the point of the charade?

It's not a fucking charade; I legit have a double-vote and the mods checked in (albeit only with a prod) so they should be ending the day and I don't understand why they haven't.

I'll ping them.

Think what you bloody achieved by that double vote then, given their claim. This is exactly what I meant by not doing things in a hurry. Don't worry about getting killed tonight. The scum will keep you around. And pounce on you tomorrow. And you would have deserved it.
That, or you are a scum.

By the way, two people have a double vote? That's kinda ridiculous, and I am not buying it.

[VII Saix]

I have decided long back that I am not gonna do the suspects' work for them by defending them. So, Xaldin you need to rescue yourself. But everyone who is voting for them should ISO them rather than voting based on impressions. This is the least a town should be doing.

They are sheeping xig in all hoensty

Why didn't you claim before, you dummy? What were you waiting for? If someone would block you, it would still help the town by engaging the blocker.

If this is twilight, the investigative roles should target Axel or me in the night. We were the wagons and it's better to confirm/rule it out. Or, target Zex or Vex. It's better to have an active Conftown. With all due respect, Xemnas is useless.

[VII Saix]

Axel > Me > Zex=Vex=Xig for investigation.

[VII Saix]

It's not just about what you do or don't do. If you are a role that could help the town immensely, you have some responsibility.
Just coz of your flaking attitude at L-1, I think you could be scum. I don't know a town who accepts their fate as meekly as you are.

[VII Saix]

Why didn't you unvote?

[VII Saix]

Xig and Zex, you realise people are using you guys to draw their suspicion off Axel?

[VII Saix]

VOTE: Axel
Re-voting so that people start voting here.

[VII Saix]

That's an arm-twisting tactic there, Xig.
But here goes. I can come on board on any of the following lynches: Ax or Vex. Maybe even Demyx, or Marl, or maybe even Rox, with sufficuent cases against them.
Not on board for anyone else.

[VII Saix]

Zex did a good job of listing Axel's scumminess in one of their posts. Everyone should read it.

[VII Saix]

If you're trying to fight an Axel lynch and they flip scum you are guaranteeing your lynch at some point in the game. Regardless of your alignment just vote.

Erm. Luxord lynch. You know what it is.

That's what's called arm twisting.
If I have to go by this logic, same goes true for you if Axel turns scum. And that's a stupid logic. At L-2, scumpartners will be running to be on the wagon. Not resisting it.
In any case, feel free to lynch me tomorrow whatever be the outcome today. You will surely find a lot of support.

[VII Saix]

Thank you. Now let's see some votes there.

[VII Saix]

Axel, this is why I talked about lynching you 11 days ago. You see how shifty the town is. Flitting from one wagon to the other.

[VII Saix]

If you don't vote Larxene we'll lynch you regardless of your claim. Your claim doesn't confirm you as town, sorry.

Seriously, what's going on!
So you think they could be scum, but still are voting elsewhere.
Could you give me a hierarchy of suspicion using signs > < =

[VII Saix]

You must. You were pathetic in last 24 hours. It's sad to see how you have pocketed most of the town. If your alt-slip is anything to go by, you are playing just as you always do. You need to leave the game, yes, and by that I mean you need to be immediately lynched.
VOTE: Xigbar
I may not have as much credibility as you do in this game, so I can only try my best to lynch you. Axel is always gonna be there. But since I have a some idea regarding who you are, I know how incredibly manipulative you are. And so, you need to be lynched right now.

[VII Saix]

Mod, do scums have a day chat?
Was the scum PT open before the game began?

I think people need to realise that what Axel did (or didn't) do can't be proven. I would believe his claim only if the answers to both the questions above were negative.

[VII Saix]

Mod, do scums have a day chat?
Was the scum PT open before the game began?

I think people need to realise that what Axel did (or didn't) do can't be proven. I would believe his claim only if the answers to both the questions above were negative.

So uh. The gif of Axel, the ability flavor title being a quote from Axel, and the "ground on fire" bit being one of Axel's powers in canon don't count as proof?

Nope.
Coz wiping a night could still be a scum ability, and scum!Axel could have either done it himself or could have shared the message from his teammate if the scum pt is open throughout.
If he is a town, he is now effectively a vt. If he is a scum, he is a scum. He is useless to the game. Best to lynch him.

[VII Saix]

Whom did you track?

[VII Saix]

Can someone explain to me a world where Saix will tunnel down my throat for "not posting enough in-game content" but doesn't say shit about Marluxia other than calling him a SR once and forgetting about him the entire game?

Or doesn't read your posts/the game at all enough to realize that no actions happened last night.

Axel may have promised to skip the night, but anyone who has any night action would have still submitted their actions. Which is why I asked Xaldin about whom they tracked. Coz if Xaldin promises to be who he is, his night action gives me a clue to his thoughts.

If you keep throwing shade at me without understanding the intent, you are doing exactly what you are proclaiming to avoid. I will not be replacing, but I will not be interacting with you. Your name-calling in an earlier post was uncalled for, but this required quoting you.

[VII Saix]

Xigbar's biggest problem is he basing his reads on 1. knowing alts 2. knowing meta of these alts. None of these two things can be verified till the end (unless you have alt-slipped like me, or you are a scum coz scums can disclose it on their PT).

[VII Saix]

Because as a tracker giving out that information to scum is a genius idea vexen.

You are right.

[VII Saix]

About the rest of that post, just because I can't read you doesn't mean no one else can. And even then, unless my memory is fucking with me like the strongman thing, I believe I misread Scum!you as Town!you far more than the other way around.

Sorry, but the implication of this post is that fucking Saix and Xaldin can read me. It doesn't take you being a super invested player to realize that neither of them are skilled players nor has the scumread on me any merit. And no fuck you this is exactly what you said in our last game together to justify pushing on me and I find it incredibly unlikely that you wouldn't learn your lesson from last game when my slot was literally a totally free mislynch because people have a complete inability to deal with my slot in a rational manner.

To salvage you insult on someone else, you end up insulting me. Wonderful. Anyway,
I might not be a skilled player, but I take solace in the fact that I do not feed my narcissism by insulting others.
How correct I am regarding you - only time will tell.
In the meanwhile, I did what you asked. I went and read some of your posts.
This is what I think:
You have been terrible at the end of D1 since the time you unvoted Axel and went after Larx without a shred of an evidence. All your points against them were of hearsay and unsubstantiated. You need to own up your mistakes rather than justifying those mistakes by whining about how no one sees your point.
Second reason: almost all your read and responses to other people's questions directed to you are based on your knowledge of their alts. You might be a maverick. But I still wouldn't care if you indulge into alts and their metas. It's not good enough for me.
You can keep crying and whining about a misdirected town as much as you want. Your behaviour throughout has been 'I know the best. Don't tell me what to do'. But then don't blame the town for attaching as much value to your opinion as they attach to the dust on the floor. You have been trying hard to control the gamestate, but you do not have very good convincing powers, which is why the town doesn't see your pov.

[VII Saix]

I agree with you about Axel's power, but I don't agree with you regarding the position of Vex as coming from a likely partner. They are individually scummy, but Vex is infinitely less scummier than Axel and I don't think Vex and Ax could be partners. To make my sentence more fine tuned, I would say, if Axel flips scum, I would be sure that Vex is town. But in case of any of the other three scenarios regarding one of them (Axel flips town, Vex flips scum, Vex flips town), I couldn't draw inference about the other person.

[VII Saix]

What i don't like abt rox's recent posts is that it gives an impression that he has logically arrived at conclusions after vca and various posts. But in reality, he is picking and choosing arguments and posts that justify his already formed views. The insincerity in reversing the cause and effect relationship (between his views and peoples votes n posts) is really scummy, but it is such an obvious attempt of misinterpretation that it is likely to come from a town.

[VII Saix]

Why didn't he say that till now, and why are you defending on their behalf? I am assuming you felt like dodging the prod, so you came and made a statement. You can go to your hibernation.

[VII Saix]

Xaldin's lynch is baseless. If I am alive on D3, I will focus on people who have been wrong both on D1 and D2 lynches.

Also, mass claim is the worst idea anyone has ever come up with.

[VII Saix]

I think xig misunderstood your view in 1099 as if it were me you were talking about.

vla till 15th.

[VII Saix]

Do you think one of your reads are wrong? If so, which one of your reads are you most unsure about? What is your opinion about me? It matters to me.

[VII Saix]

Why didn't he say that till now, and why are you defending on their behalf? I am assuming you felt like dodging the prod, so you came and made a statement. You can go to your hibernation.

Why were you shutting Xemnas the First down here?

Coz that comment came exactly an hour or two before their prod time was up. It fit perfectly with your predecessor's profile this game.

[VII Saix]

So fucking tempted to vote for Vex. Two different people in the same slot finding me suspicious? That's a big, big coincidence. I mean, either I am generally very scummy such that two independent people filling the same slot find me scummy, or that slot is scum as fuck.

But it's Xigbar today. Needs to go for his D1 push. This is exactly how that idiot plays, if I have got them right.

[VII Saix]

The point of that post was to let them know that their gimmick was noticed. It is good they left. They were not helping the game and appeared disinterested. Hopefully, you will be better.

[VII Saix]

I am not getting into the explanation regarding Vex's post about me on page 46. Coz that will mean engaging directly with Vex. But if anyone else has an issue, clarification, question to ask me in context of that post, go ahead. There's some substantial misrepresentation/misunderstanding/misreading happening in that post so there's a lot I wanna say regarding that, but in absence of any question, I won't do that. I don't feel like dragging on an argument with Vex.

[VII Saix]

The point of that post was to let them know that their gimmick was noticed. It is good they left. They were not helping the game and appeared disinterested. Hopefully, you will be better.

I don't like your approach to my predecessor. I don't like your approach to me, either.

You have every right to not like my approach.

[VII Saix]

Saix' behavior toward my predecessor is one approach scum sometimes take - denigrate, isolate and demotivate. Town frustrated with a disengaged IC looks different, from what I've seen.

What is a scum to gain from doing that to a confirmed town?
Your slot was already demotivated and isolated without me having to do anything. I may have denigrated them a bit to shake them out of the slumber. I was the only one hankering them to wake the fuck up. They didn't. So, they got replaced.

[VII Saix]

The point of that post was to let them know that their gimmick was noticed. It is good they left. They were not helping the game and appeared disinterested. Hopefully, you will be better.

I don't like your approach to my predecessor. I don't like your approach to me, either.

You have every right to not like my approach.

Where are your reads at currently?

Scum is within Axel, Vex and Xigbar.
Scumlean - Rox and maybe Lex.
Null - Lux
Everyone else town or townlean.

[VII Saix]

There are places where he demonstrates an understanding of mafia and how to play it that directly clash with other posts he makes where he demonstrates no such understandings.

Not everything that you believe is true. You may have a strong opinion on the "right way to play mafia", but there isn't an established right way to play mafia.

If he's new but has a few games under his belt, some of your discrepancies are null and void.

He hasn't talked about his skill level at all and hasn't pretended to be a caricature of a mafia player, so the only reason you think he's new is because you disagree with some things that he said. That's insane.

There isn't a single right way to play mafia. There are many wrong ways to play mafia. Let's try an experiment though.

@Saix

Is your experience level with forum based mafia:

A. 0-1 completed games.
B. 2-5 completed games.
C. 6-15 completed games.
D. 16-100 completed games.
E. 101+ completed games.

More interesting will be to know what you think about my experience.

[VII Saix]

Saix will never answer that question

Big post coming tonight

Oh?

I can make him.

Saix will answer the question because to not answer it is an admission that he's attempting to obfuscate his skill level. There is almost no information gained other than that from that post, and it doesn't meaningfully narrow down his identity.

Honestly I'm surprised no one started this game with RQS given the fact that it WOULD actually be useful in this game, as opposed to most games.

You can make me?! Try.

[VII Saix]

Zex, reasons?

[VII Saix]

Saix' behavior toward my predecessor is one approach scum sometimes take - denigrate, isolate and demotivate. Town frustrated with a disengaged IC looks different, from what I've seen.

What is a scum to gain from doing that to a confirmed town?
Your slot was already demotivated and isolated without me having to do anything. I may have denigrated them a bit to shake them out of the slumber. I was the only one hankering them to wake the fuck up. They didn't. So, they got replaced.

Undercutting the confirmed town's reads and stances are really the only thing scum can do with confirmed town, assuming the confirmed town is at all on the right track. If they can get the confirmed town player to doubt themselves, even better.

Your post read more like a "get out" than a "wake up".

I guess the flip side is that a disengaged and demotivated confirmed town is vastly preferable to a replacement. Anyone who replaces into this slot (or any other slot in the game) is doing so because they want to play the game.

Since you yourself have come up with a loophole in your theory, I hope you see the light.

[VII Saix]

Saix will never answer that question

Big post coming tonight

Oh?

I can make him.

Saix will answer the question because to not answer it is an admission that he's attempting to obfuscate his skill level. There is almost no information gained other than that from that post, and it doesn't meaningfully narrow down his identity.

Honestly I'm surprised no one started this game with RQS given the fact that it WOULD actually be useful in this game, as opposed to most games.

You can make me?! Try.

Is there a reason not to answer?

Yes, there is. 2 reasons. First, I find that he is ordering me rather than asking. Second, I fail to see his point and what he is gonna get out of it.

First:
I would have gladly answered it. But challenging me like that - ordering me to comply instead of asking - I will not answer the question on principle.

Second:
I don't understand his premise for these two reasons:
1. If I have been projecting myself as inexperienced, there was no reason for me to crack the facade. Especially over a conversation with Xaldin where I was not at all under the pressure. If you go back to that convo, you will see that Vex/Axel/someone had in fact slotted me as someone who didn't even read that the night was skipped. So, if I really wanted to maintain my facade, I would have let them believe that.
2. The whole premise is built on me behaving in an inexperiened manner on D1. I said scums are less likely to be logical. Contentious as that may sound, where is an attempt to solicit my fucking response to that and understand what I think? Instead, they made up their mind by the end of D1 that I am a VI. I have no prblem if someone thinks of me as a moron, but now if they suddenly start thinking of me as a genius, it's their confusion and problem to sort out, not mine. And since it's their problem, the least they can do is ask nicely. If they can't even do that, and instead are thumping their chest how not responding to their question is a further indication of my scumminess, they will be ignored just as their slot was ignored a few pages ago.

I think it's really dumb and fascist to think that there's one simple rulebook to play mafia. You may think of my style as amateurish, but have the maturity to understand that everyone finds their own rules and tools. I had the exact same response as what Marlux posted, but I didn't type it coz it read damn defensive coming from me. I have learnt to keep my defensive attitude in check coz each of my defensive replies are taken out of context and made to look as if these defensive replies are now the reason why I am scum. I have largely succeeded in not yielding to provocation, and I would like to keep it like that. Not only that it leads to my slot's impending lynch, it also spoils the whole fun. So it's best to ignore people like Vex.

[VII Saix]

We share 2/3 of our scumreads. Why don't you get past the fact that you feel the urge to policy lynch me and instead direct your energy at lynching Vexscum?

Vex, not yet. Lynch Axel with me. At best he is a VT now that he has used his power (so he says).

[VII Saix]

I am claiming.

[VII Saix]

If someone targets me at night, they will be killed automatically.
I can kill someone at night, but if I choose to do so, I will forfeit the first ability.
So, in effect, I have only one functional power but been given the option to choose out of the two.

Lynching is the only likely way I will be shown the door, unless the scum can afford to reduce by 1. I can go to the endgame if people believe me.

[VII Saix]

*If someone targets me at night for a nightkill

[VII Saix]

I would like to use my passive killing ability (death for someone who nightkills me) rather than active killing ability (vig).
The first ability ensures a town till the endgame. If I use my vig ability, I will be an effective VT and have less of a use to the town.

[VII Saix]

I would like to use my passive killing ability (death for someone who nightkills me) rather than active killing ability (vig).
The first ability ensures a town till the endgame. If I use my vig ability, I will be an effective VT and have less of a use to the town.

The passive ability is pretty great if you were a universal townread and someone who was likely to be killed by scum. The active one is pretty great if you're widely suspected.

As of right now, you fit into the second category. Maybe you can rally the town to stand behind you, but people are dumb and unless you pull out some crazy stops you're probably going to have to resort to using the active killing ability.

How does me vigging someone confirm me as a town? I could still be a scum and pass off my kill as a vig kill. Alternatively, if I am a town, scum team may desist from killing anyone and frame me as a scum for a single NK. There are several ways in which they can frame me and I don't wanna get into it, but the point is you can never be sure.

The only way you can be completely sure is if there's a cop in the game. If there is a 1-shot cop, better target me and take me to the endgame. Even if you die later in the game coz you claimed, you will ensure that there is a conf town in the end.

It's useful to think of me as universal townread even if you don't actually think that. Even if you think I am a scum, you can focus right now on lynching "my partners". Coz in the best scenario, you make sure that there's a player alive who's if not confirmed at least a potential town in the endgame.

[VII Saix]

If someone targets me at night, they will be killed automatically.
I can kill someone at night, but if I choose to do so, I will forfeit the first ability.
So, in effect, I have only one functional power but been given the option to choose out of the two.

Lynching is the only likely way I will be shown the door, unless the scum can afford to reduce by 1. I can go to the endgame if people believe me.

So, a PGO/Vig then?
Do you get that choice every night, or once you kill are you permanently a vig?

Saix corrected this in their next post. Not a PGO. They kill if targeted by a kill, not targeted by any ability.

My bad, I missed that bit.

In that case...
UNVOTE:

A PGO claim doesn't preclude someone from being scum imo, but being specific to nightkills probably does.

Saix, do you still die if you get targetted by a kill?

Only one of the two abilities, only once a game.
I die if someone NK's me.
If someone NK's me before I use my abilities, I guess I become a bomb. I am not sure about this. I can choose to be a vig only before someone NK's me. Then, I have no choice but to be a bomb I am guessing.

[VII Saix]

Xig, I think you are the same player with whom I decided to not play ever again. You alt slipped as someone else, but I think it's one of your several alts.

[VII Saix]

Vote Count 2.11

Xigbar [4] - Saïx, Xaldin, Vexen, Lexaeus
Saïx [1] - Zexion
Demyx [3] - Roxas, Marluxia, Luxord
Zexion [1] - Axel
Roxas [1] - Demyx
Vexen [1] - Xigbar

Not Voting: Xemnas

Zexion and Xaldin have been prodded.

6 to lynch
Deadline: (expired on 2017-09-18 02:19:22).[/color]

Oooh predecessor was on Xig. Nice good to know.

This means Demyx is prob Town.

VOTE: Xigbar

Gonna trust the predecessor for now. Stopping reading til late tomorrow.

What does this even mean? Just coz your pred was on someone. You seem to be more interested in getting a lynch rather than lynching scum.
Explain.
And how can you not read till late tomorrow? If you start reading then, it will be close to the deadline.

[VII Saix]

Also think that it's super probable that Axel is scum who dropped his push on Saix entirely because he's scared of the vigshot now and is hoping he can coast it out.
I really see no reason why he wouldn't doubt the claim if Saix has been his strongest scumread?
He's also completely dropped his Marluxia scumread from D1 with no commentary there since that I can see?
I really don't think there's a real genuine thought process going on behind the scenes with either of these progressions.

I m not sure if this is misunderstanding on your part or on Axel's, but wanna clear it.
I can be lynched and I can't do anything about it. I can use my vig shot only in the night.
If I am targeted for a nightkill, I turn into a bomb, annihilating both myself and the one who NK'd me.
I am a 1-time vig. I can only use one of the abilities, viz. be a vig or a bomb. If I use vigging, I will not turn into a bomb thereafter.
As much as I would like to see votes on Axel, your reason for voting them is incorrect.

[VII Saix]

I could vote Axel.
That would allow me to kick the Vexen can down the road.

Let me get you right.
Are you saying you would have more clarity on Vex based on Axel's flip?

[VII Saix]

Anyone who gets swayed by xig's case on vex should immediately check their d1 case on larx and how they were instrumental in lynching larx.

[VII Saix]

Just to clarify where I stand, VOTE: xigbar

[VII Saix]

Seriously just kill me tonight because I'm a cop and I don't want to play anymore

If you are a cop, you should investigate me.

[VII Saix]

Has Vex reached L?
Ok listen everyone, enough of fucking around.
If Vex flips town, we definitely have to lynch Xig tomorrow. Once is ok, mislynching twice is not ok.

[VII Saix]

Zex visited axel
Demyx visited xigbar
Marluxia went nowhere

Also now I have to admit xig is not scum that wasn't a bus >.> I kinda need to start from scratch now.

Explain why is Xig not a scum?

[VII Saix]

VOTE: Xig
Xemnas, I think Xig and Axel are definitely scum together. Or Xig is scum with others.
Lynch Xig please.

[VII Saix]

Demyx is weird.
Axel is flaky, but I don't want to lynch him before Xig.
Luxord could be scum.
Rox, no clue. Flaky fellow.

[VII Saix]

Could someone pull together all the claims?
There was an explosion of posts somewhere at the end of D2 and I have not read many of the posts. During the night, I read some of those posts and saw that someone kept asking me questions. I think Lex it was. Sorry about that remaining unanswered.
I Xemnas - Innocent Child
III Xaldin - Tracker
VII Saix - 1 shot Vig/Bomb
VIII Axel - 1-shot night skipper.
What about others?

[VII Saix]

Demyx is weird.
Axel is flaky, but I don't want to lynch him before Xig.
Luxord could be scum.
Rox, no clue. Flaky fellow.

I'm willing to lynch you today to prevent you from reaching XYLO.

You are an idiot if you do.
No one suspects me so there's no question of me creating a mess in LYLO.

[VII Saix]

Zex visited axel
Demyx visited xigbar
Marluxia went nowhere

Also now I have to admit xig is not scum that wasn't a bus >.> I kinda need to start from scratch now.

Explain why is Xig not a scum?

You think yesterday could have been scum theatrics? Really?

Just answer the question rather than rhetoric and counterquestions.
God this game is full of idiots.

[VII Saix]

Well, that's your problem.
You will not draw enough traction, so stop wasting everyone's time.
I swear to god I keep wondering how this slot attracts nincompoops.

[VII Saix]

What a bloody moron.

[VII Saix]

Vote :Axel

@Saix

That's my explanation. It never is scum /scum interaction. Ever so xig is town.

Why is that not a scum-scum interaction?
Thats your explanation. So, basically, your night action has nothing to do with Xig being town. I wanted to be sure.
Now that we are clear that it's your perception and not knowledge we are talking about, you should reconsider.

[VII Saix]

As far as I'm concerned, the alternative to lynching you now is for you to use your vig shot as directed by town tonight.

The innocent child has turned into an idiot crybaby.

[VII Saix]

Vote :Axel

@Saix

That's my explanation. It never is scum /scum interaction. Ever so xig is town.

Why is that not a scum-scum interaction?
Thats your explanation. So, basically, your night action has nothing to do with Xig being town. I wanted to be sure.
Now that we are clear that it's your perception and not knowledge we are talking about, you should reconsider.

Why is his perception inferior to yours?

Let the adults talk.

[VII Saix]

Saix I was vehemntly certain Vexen was flipping town and we would finally quick lynch xigbar to oblivion but the heat between them dint read as fake, it couldn't ahve been.
Even if they were both bussers at that point in time they had no reason to go on each otehrs throats like that it would have been too premature, they were many people they could have easily pushed. Yet they became isntumental for each otehrs potential death. They had no reason to do any of that if they were both scum, none. It would be horrible play and neither of them seems like a horrible player.

If Xig is the player I think he is, he is most definitely capable of putting up a charade like that. I was scum in a game with him (I think), and we were at loggerheads since the beginning, for no rhyme or reason. Also, that quickly turned into a unilateral bussing from his side and real hatred from my side coz he was riding me on scum PT for not putting up a case on him. The point is don't arguments as absence of scum partnerships.

I will revisit their exchanges and see if it seems real or not. But for now, it may be wise to get off him, as you say.

Does Vex and Axel make sense together? Vex has been openly defending Axel.

[VII Saix]

So, it's confirmed now who Xig is. Lynch them immediately. That slot is capable of all sort of manipulation and much more.

[VII Saix]

Axel can you please poke Zexion to explain why they're not voting me and voting Saix instead?
Because I have literally no idea why they would be from what they're posting if they think I was apparently bussing and am being fake compared to just "oh well Saix said Axel is a nightskipper".
I don't get it?

You have a problem with being townread over me?

[VII Saix]

I am not gonna vig even if you lynch me.

[VII Saix]

Majority of you are insulting me and ganging up on me and calling me names. That's your version. You can choose to believe that. But don't try to feed me that. Maybe have the openness to believe in an affirmative line of thought as much as you believe in yours. As improbable as it may sound, there's no certainty to anything else except one thing. That xem is town. Rest of the stuff is speculation and how you choose to look at the game. My suggestion will be to do your stuff and let me do mine without penalizing me for it.

About everyone agreeing with xem's suggestion that even if everyone agrees i am a town, lynching me is the only option if i don't use my vig shot coz I will be a problem in lylo; and lux's suggestion that scum will keep me alive regardless - it's based on too many assumptions.

1. The only person who i have seemingly bias against is xig. So, i will be a problem in lylo only if xig reaches lylo. Wjy are we assuming that xig will be alive in lylo?
2. If a player like xig is alive till lylo, are you still going to think he isa town?
3. Whoever has played withxig should know his antics. Why are you assuming he isn't capable of lynching one of his partners to get a towncred?

[VII Saix]

Alternative*, not affirmative.

[VII Saix]

Yeah saix's claim is garbage and if they're town and we force them to shoot they're going to shoot me anyway
and frankly I find it appallingly unlikely that with their claimed reads that they didn't shoot me last night

Zexion are you OK with this?

Typical play of scum!xig. Call a person scum and then lynch them.

So, the way you outline it, whatever I would have done, I would be a lynchee.

[VII Saix]

Less confident, more doubtful, less incriminatory, more logical.

[VII Saix]

You don't think poking townHim for as long as you have produces a response like the one you're receiving?

Like, I struggle to believe that you think this is outside his town-vocabulary, and this constant confidence level is just really starting to look stale. You really think there's no argument to Xig bussing Vexen being really stupid? Do you not think that Xig/Vexen couldn't have alternated driving lynches? The two of them could have driven town to lynch so many other people so many times. How are you this confident about this?
I seriously don't get it at all.

Do you have any reads that aren't this one single solitary death read?

You can contradict me only if you have ever been scum with xig. Or have witnessed as a town the extent to which scum!xig can go. If you haven't, there's nothing I can say that would make you understand.

[VII Saix]

really just rolling with this whole Xig is the only scum in the game schtick eh?

If you think you have found scum, why will you go after others first? Especially a player like xig as scum could be very harmful the longer he stays in the game. The more you talk, the more I realise you either don't know xig's id or you don't have any experience playing with scum xig.

[VII Saix]

I think everyone should reread xig's day 1, especially their role in lynching larx.

[VII Saix]

I could reread you hard defending Vexen while scumreading him while I'm there if you'd like?
"omg xig was wrong on a read they must be scum" - real posting by real person with real read

Are you smoking? I am hard defending Vexen?!! I have said throughout the game that Vex is scummy, and throughout D1 Vex was in my top3 scumlist. But on both D1 and D2 I had players who appeared scummier than Vex. On D1, it was Axel, on D2 it was Xig. All this is in my ISO. All you have been doing is simply throw shade at me past couple of days. I would like you to produce some evidence to back your blanket shading. So, Lux, this is an open challenge to you to produce some evidence backing your statement.

[VII Saix]

So, Lux, this is an open challenge to you to produce some evidence backing your statement.

Like. Lol. How is this not lynched yet? This isn't a real thing someone says.

Will ask you once more. Please explain what you meant when you said I was safeguarding vex. Coz i have not done that at all. I think you went overboard and said things that have no connection to reality. Either accept that or prove me wrong.

[VII Saix]

I am on mobile right now. I have 115+ posts in this game. Every single post, including those that you have quoted against me hold the belief that vex is scum. I am telling you and you should listen to me if you are town, that you are absolutely tunneled. I can't quote clearly onthe mobile so you are gonna have to wait till I get on the laptop.

Something about your latest response to marlux caught my eye. You think xig and I can't be town together. Interesting. What happens when to lynch me and find out that I was telling the truth? Will you then be ready to lynch xig? This question has two connotations. Either you agree now that your reasoning is flawed and be safe of the consequences tomorrow, or be ready to lynch one of you or xig tomorrow.

About not putting forth a coherent case on xig: yeah, i agree i am not a good convince-r. I have a lot going on irl and I can't go back and iso him. But, at the same time, i have had very strong faith and belief in my intuition. Although I understand they are of no use and interest to you to lynch xig (or anyone else), and could be considered a failure on my part as a town, i am fine with my reads and vote this game. Although you won't agree, my serious first post on d1 mentions vex asa scum, and i have maintained that throughout. I have not voted for them coz there were more serious contenders.

In support of my playing style where i don't have logical but intuitive reasons to vote, you should check out my push on d1 on axel. You will find that my push on axel is similar to my push on xig.

Finally, i don't think you realise what you and xemnas are doing. You are allowing xig to relax without having to defend. You are doing his hard work for him. Xig is a seasoned player and can completely slay me with his manipulative style as has been witnessed time and again, so although you are doing a good job of bringing me to my wits end, maybe xig himself should be doing so.

[VII Saix]

Roxas, you have been like a stuck tape, giving the same reasons related to your rl, over and over again. You should think of replacing out coz your slot is essentially vacant.

[VII Saix]

We have 4 players in prod range. One of them has done nothing of significance this game day. 2 have done nearly nothing of significance this game day. I'd like to see that change before the day ends. Otherwise, I'd hammer now.

What have you done? Your vote on me = Delusions of adequacy.

[VII Saix]

Have lost all interest in this game.

Mod, replace me.

[VII Saix]

Hello.

[VII Saix]

I'm a one shot vig with a twist. Do I have to claim fully or will that suffice?

[VII Saix]

The activity is just overwhelming.

I'll read the game tomorrow.

[VII Saix]

[VII Saix]

Am I gonna be disappointed? I've always wanted to do a secret alt game but I have a feeling I might be disappointed.

[VII Saix]

I may not have read the game but it seems to me that scum rarely use getting votes on themselves as a strategy

[VII Saix]

Mm, seems like my predecessor unfortunately claimed in full. What a lame-o.

I can shoot tonight if that's what's needed.

[VII Saix]

page 6

Luxord is pretty town.
I fundamentally disagree with Xigbar about how this game works. It's a shame he will presumably manage to lynch Larxene for the crime of being town as fuck (I know this is a tacky position to take -- shut up). Unfortunately, he is probably town.
Roxas is townish. They also remind me of someone, but I'm pretty sure that, as they claim, they are not that someone.
Not a huge fan of Axel so far.
My read on Zexion is being taintedby my knowledge that by page 110 he will want to die, which by the way, why don't you just replace out if you hate this so much.

[VII Saix]

Maybe I should be playing a little close to the vest if I'm shooting tonight. Wouldn't surprise me if there was a scum power to get around my bomb ability, like a BP or doc.

[VII Saix]

This game is very dense.

If I have to read one more post that's mostly about who X is or isn't and was or wasn't at each other's weddings I will blow my figurative brains out all over your nicest rug.

[VII Saix]

Soooo... how many rugs do you guys have?

[VII Saix]

This whole thread is a pile of incest, isn't it? I literally wanted to do this to avoid that crap.

[VII Saix]

Got to hate wandering into someone else's clique. What are the chances?

You people use this!notation too often and in places where it doesn't make sense, and it bugs me.

[VII Saix]

I do not scumread Zexion. I feel like I should locktown her based on the gambit, which was almost certainly done to attempt to make me a less obvious nightkill target, and I will do so based on her response now.
I mostly scumread her because of the /way/ that she scumread me and refused to let me answer to it and at she kept saying things that she had said she wouldn't say and I was like you have to be fucking scumclaiming to be saying this shit and then I was like ohhh maybe she doesn't scumread me at all. It's something that she's done before. But I don't think it would actually stop scum from killing either of us (namely me) and I think it's putting out some of the town around us and potentially can cause her to get mislynched in the future if people end up following my reads (LOL YEAH THAT'S NOT HAPPENING) or more likely someone investigates her and is like NO TOWN GRR. Which is not what I want.

I am so fucking lost.

[VII Saix]

"100% scum"

5 posts later

"Not even my preferred lynch target"

Some psycho players in here.

[VII Saix]

Xig "unvote anyone who claims any role" bar

Sorry I'm at EOD1 and you all sound like literal crazy people.

[VII Saix]

Between my role and some of the others I have seen claimed, it seems as though scum must have powerful roles as well. Here's a thought, what if Xaldin's role is just a scum role.

[VII Saix]

Oh god there's going to be neighborhood shit? Fuck me with a screwdriver.

[VII Saix]

Demyx/Vexen never W/W

I agree with this pretty strongly where I'm at so I have to wonder where everyone else's brains went in the interim.

[VII Saix]

Made it to page 50. Done for a while. I have some thoughts, though you shouldn't expect a wall at all, and I'm not sure I should share them today.

I plan on vigging someone with an X in their name.

[VII Saix]

I will say that Demyx is currently my second strongest townread so I'm not keen on this wagon.

[VII Saix]

I will say that Demyx is currently my second strongest townread so I'm not keen on this wagon.

As of page 50-ish, correct?

Yep.

Something not related to this game came up and I have to replace out. Sorry Anti and TTH.

Replace me.

Omg. Stahp.

[VII Saix]

Never fear, Saix is here.

[VII Saix]

Literally hate all of you.

[VII Saix]

pile of incest

pile of incest.....

that could be a band

hey saix, do u play drums or guitar or sing or something?

Nope. I'm worthless at anything requiring talent. So, need a manager?

Fuck me with a screwdriver

...


phillips or flathead?

Phillips. THought I wrote that in the post, but I guess I didn't.

[VII Saix]

I'd appreciate getting to finish catching up before we lynch.

[VII Saix]

Xemnas, I'm demanding a stay of execution from you on the basis that you apparently know who I am and know me well enough to know the following. If I am town, I'm going to both get nightkilled fairly quickly AND suggest a plan of action with a very high chance of solving the game entirely. Mass claim is tomorrow, and I will be winning this game for us if you let me do my thing.

Not that this is a shock, but I want to note that in light of his earlier comments about how he works in these situations, scum clearly have a strong fuck-up-night-actions game.

[VII Saix]

It also likely means that scum feel fine about looking town in a mass claim, so let's not give too much credit for town-looking roles thanks.

[VII Saix]

The second half of my role is a conditional bulletproof.

I knew it was going to be bulletproof. I KNEW it. How very convenient.

[VII Saix]

I wonder if Roxas felt comfortable asking to be copped because they could see Vexen's fakeclaim was a cop role.

[VII Saix]

It makes some kind of sense that a secret alt game made all the narcissists come out of the woodwork to play.

[VII Saix]

Demyx trying to lynch Marluxia at EOD2 is pretty lulzy and I'm guessing everyone hated it, but I still don't especially see it coming from scum.

[VII Saix]

Happy to lynch any of Marluxia, Lexaeus or Demyx.

I'll hammer whatever to prevent NL if I have to.

This crap, on the other hand, is smashing 80 pages of me townreading here with a hammer.

[VII Saix]

Mainly I'm just curious how Demyx claiming tracker isn't a scumclaim

WTF is this shit?

[VII Saix]

I'm going to write a little now because I feel like it. I have just finished page 96. The order is arbitrary (actually, it's the readlist I made on page 50ish, but whatever).

Zexion is someone I townread for most of the game. I liked his ATE stuff, sue me, and I saw him as the more likely town in the Xig/Zex pair-anoia thing they were doing for like the first half of the game. His interaction with the Vexen wagon sucked, however, and his Day 3 play up to 96 feels like giving up and/or just all around trash. I don't get it, but I'm coming down to an uncertain take here.

Demyx 1.0 was a townread, all the stronger for how he and Vexen went at it. Frankly I no longer recall why at this point, but I remember thinking he wouldn't be scum due to Vexen's scum flip. His successor totally flipping that stance really doesn't matter to me at all, nor does his decision to play like a shitlord. I am glad he's being replaced, hopefully the new person can actually get their shit together and go back to being town.

Xigbar was a vaguely town read for me for a lot of the game, though I had paranoia about it sometimes. After yesterday, I have no interest in lynching there right now. His scrambling on Day 1 felt town, and I dug things like his admission he wasonly 90% confident after Vexen was hammered. I'm not clearing this slot forever by any means, but it's likely town.

I loved Luxord 1.0 and townread him strongly. 2.0 sucked. 3.0 I'm pretty sure I have an identity on, and I don't have much confidence in my ability to read that person but I think they've been sounding town. That combined with my 1.0 read makes me feel good about town-binning them for now.

Marluxia basically pops into existence to make a few vaguely town sounding posts every so often and then fade back into the background. They're possibly someone the game needs to be cured of at some point. Have no confidence here.

Axel has a townish role but I won't discount it possibly being from scum. Most of his posting is lame and I've agreed with scumreads on him at times but I've had some pause regarding his interaction with the Vexen wagon and whatever the fuck is happening with him and Zexion now. I know I had more to say here that I'm just forgetting...

Xaldin's posts are scumalicious and do nothing. He used his role in a protown manner, but that's about all he has going for him.

I liked Roxas at the start of the game with asking to be investigated and such. Felt like something a BP with a big ego might think. However, I've distrusted this more and more with time. I haven't seen any particular reason to discount this slot as a Vexen buddy. I don't have a case or anything, I just don't see much town posting happening here, and I'm wary that they're a scum BP that exists because of my role. Have hated their Demyx stuff today. If we want to play "too many protectives," this is where the music stops.

I think I forgot more about this game between starting and ending this post than my predecessor ever knew.

[VII Saix]

So ATM I'm not vigging Xig, Lux or Dem. Everyone else is still on the table pending the rest of my read and the rest of this Day.

[VII Saix]

Cheetory what are your thoughts on Axel?

I was way off and this shouldn't be allowed.

[VII Saix]

As I understand Zexion's ability, they neighborize Axel tonight and target him again for a cop result (but as I put it to words, I'm starting to think that I might have made assumptions I shouldn't have). If I'm not an idiot, that means that lynching Axel today means that Zexion can use his ability on someone else.

Why do you think that Saix is scum?

Why didn't Zexion take issue with Vexen claiming something so similar to his role? :/

[VII Saix]

Kinda seeing the Demyx votes now but not sure that's my fave lynch.

Ur going to be disappointed if this is my town game?

Be prepared to be disappointed:

Hell I'll give you chance to hammer me Town:
VOTE: Demyx

I am a loud watcher.
I watched xigbar last night obviously.

That's it? Most roles in this game seem to have two elements.

[VII Saix]

I hope Zex 2.0 can clarify whether there was a PR, and whether breaking it has made their ability be cancelled.

I'm caught up.

VOTE: Xaldin

[VII Saix]

NVM that was clarified jksies

[VII Saix]

Apparently not enough to vote him rather than trying to park his vote on you for some reason.

[VII Saix]

Lolz. I don't even want to try to engage with that giant pile of spending 1000 words restating your opinions without offering a solitary actual point to back up a lick of it.

[VII Saix]

I said Zero to Hero, which is a song from Hercules. Hercules, in the last Heartless game, was a conditional-bulletproof. (Who, mind you, also had a day-power to go alongside it.)

And I have no idea what possesses you to think anyone else could have possibly figured this out, which I'm pretty sure is the point of crumbs anyways.

[VII Saix]

Tch.

Try me, we'll see how that works out.

[VII Saix]

This is so frigging textbook you it's almost making me think you could be town. I've wanted to be right about this wall of trash thing in the past, and I haven't been.

[VII Saix]

Whatever, hopefully the other replacements' fresh take on the game will cause them to notice what an absurd tragedy is that Xaldin isn't dead yet.

[VII Saix]

If I could draw, I'd make you a nice neon "Demyx and Saix are scum because I said so" sign and you could just post that instead of words!

[VII Saix]

Yes, see, that was me stating my opinions for the first time, and not 20 different times across 18 posts.

[VII Saix]

What I'm doing right now isn't helping.

New Xigbar, where you at dog?

[VII Saix]

Even if, in some bizzarro world he's town...his lynch STILL gives us a bundleload of information, in that we know EXACTLY where to go. If he's scum, he's not only a scum lynch, but also a scum lynch which further gives us an idea of where the final scum is. If he's town, we still benefit because we get to know who the final scum would be. But that doesn't really matter much, because he's just. scum.

This is a thing I wouldn't mind some clarification on. If he's town, who's scum? If the answer is "lynch Saix either way," then I don't thik that qualifies as what you're saying it is.

[VII Saix]

Obviously if I'm a scum vig I'm going to shoot town regardless but I'm not sure why that's even in the conversation.

[VII Saix]

That if Xaldin is the lynch. Xaldin town, Xaldin scum, doesn't matter which way he flips. 100% of the time. Saix does not shoot scum.

I mean that's because you think the scumteam in that situation is exactly one person and... me.... and you won't consider any other possibilities....

[VII Saix]

If you're actually 100% right about who is scum and can convince anyone of that, then it doesn't matter what the hell I do so I'm not sure why you care about it so much.

I don't especially agree that I'm forced to shoot Xaldin if you don't lynch him. But I'm also hoping I don't need your vote to lynch him, so.

[VII Saix]

If Zexion comes in and confirms that his role is basically what we think it is, I'm probably not going to shoot Axel, because obviously that would be terrible.

[VII Saix]

If I could draw, I'd make you a nice neon "Demyx and Saix are scum because I said so" sign and you could just post that instead of words!

No, Demyx is scum because there's been nothing town about Demyx the whole game. Demyx started as a "I can't pin down" read, and was like that all through 1.0. Come 2.0 and it was downhill from there. Shitty positions across the whole game, start to finish. Stances incredibly convenient and easy to take. Every step of the way. Bad posts after bad posts. Sketchy interactions, bad votes, and in general just a whole lot of scum behavior across the entire tenure of the slot.

You've been a scumread for much the same. Nothing Saix has done the whole game has been remotely town. I've asked, REPEATEDLY, why people were townreading the slot. Not once was I given in-game reasoning. Instead, "If Saix is who I think they are then town" as the closest to an explanation. Post-claim, we get the simplistic and idiotic view of "but that role sounds town therefore Saix must be town!". You come in and you take stances almost identical to your predecessor. Suspiciously so in fact. You take much the same angles, you attack many the same people even using a fair amount of the same process. You play things close to your chest, making it easier to bullshit whatever you want.

It's not scum because I fucking said so. It's scum because that's what literally all the evidence says.

This is basically just more of you saying so.

I feel like someone in the game has probably given an actual reason for townreading my slot.
I don't know that my positions are particularly similar to my predecessor's? His only stance Day 3 has been a death tunnel on Xigbar who I am townreading? I stopped reading Saix's posts though, so IDK beyond that...

I'm not playing close to my chest -- I pondered that and decided not to.

[VII Saix]

If he's town, then it's Saix-Xaldin. If he's scum, then it's either Demyx-Saix OR Demyx-Xaldin

So what you're saying is... it doesn't give us any information at all because that's what you already think.

C O O L

[VII Saix]

Said the person who won't acknowledge half the game could possibly be scum.

[VII Saix]

Also, I'd have to not be a bomb to be a scum vig, yes? No point in that ability if town can't kill anyone.

Why would my predecessor have tried to hardline refuse to shoot anyone as a scum vig? To the point where he risked being a lynch? That was town as shit if I'm able to prove the role.

[VII Saix]

hesitating to out your role, hesitating to give stances, and when you DID give them, having lots of leeway built in.

I didn't out my entire role right at the outset because my bomb ability only has utility when unclaimed. Pretty reasonable.

I initially thought it was a good idea not to give too many stances, but changed my mind with no prompting or disagreement from anyone else, so.... meh?

That's because I'm not a cocky player and I don't believe my reads are perfect.

you literally said it yourself, you could vig anyone in the game save three players, one who is our IC and the second who is borderline-IC anyway. The one name who sticks out is the player who is most fucking likely to be scum. (Demyx.)

You're forgetting either Xigbar or Luxord.

[VII Saix]

When you say a lynch gives you information usually it's information that shapes your reads not just literally what the alignment of that person is narrowing down who is scum because they were town. That is just called lynching someone.

[VII Saix]

Demyx as town tells us that it's unambiguously Saix and Xaldin because that's the only possible scumteam.

I have a hard time believing you've been on this site as long as you have and have somehow never eaten words like these or learned from that experience.

[VII Saix]

In particular, the content from the Marluxia and Axel slots has been extremely fakeable.

[VII Saix]

This is such a waste of time. I don't know why I bother.

[VII Saix]

Said the person who won't acknowledge half the game could possibly be scum.

To Roxas's credit, your efforts to convince him that anyone outside of his proposed scumpool could possibly be scum have been underwhelming at best. I also don't know why you decided to engage in this in the first place - do you just enjoy banging your head against a wall or...?

Kinda can't believe I'm reading this post.

[VII Saix]

Tell me we didn't hammer before the replacements check in.

[VII Saix]

I know I'm town, and he targeted me. To me, that says he's scum. Also, my ability is that I fire an arrow at someone when they target me, and I just searched the thread and he did not reveal being fired at. Why would he keep that a secret, unless he's scum?

He claimed watcher. Why would targeting you make anyone scum?

He didn't say he was shot because the mod posted that he was...

[VII Saix]

Nope. Not a hammer, xig was already on the wagon.

Can we get an unvote in here?

[VII Saix]

It really hurts to imagine townDemyx deciding not to use his watch N1 and then using it on a claimed reflexive roleblocker N2.

Fair.

[VII Saix]

Def want an immediate full claim from his replacement.

[VII Saix]

As fun as the original was, at least this one actually helps.

[VII Saix]

Oh duh.
I'm fucking stupid.

Yep, me too. You got me

[VII Saix]

Still would like an answer to 2900 or an agreement, Xig.

[VII Saix]

TBH I would've thought his scumbuddies would have talked him out of targeting a reflexive role blocker if he had any. If he were a role cop that target makes a lot of sense given Xig 1's softing. But vexed had a role cop ability so... probably not gonna be two

[VII Saix]

I can't believe anyone came away from that conversation thinking I was the one who needed to rethink anything. It wasn't pointless because the rest of you presumably read it...

[VII Saix]

and then using it on a claimed reflexive roleblocker N2.

This is good reasoning. As I've pointed out before, the loud watcher role doesn't really make sense for town when we already have the Lexaeus role; they both function as protective roles, but Demyx's is strictly better.

Scum had a rolestopper to get around either.

[VII Saix]

Jk that makes no sense.

[VII Saix]

Xigbar already claimed reflective roleblocker by night 2, so your rolecop line of thought doesn't make any sense at all.

They could have been hoping for him not to use it, I mean. Xig 1 claimed to also have a powerful investigative ability, yes?

[VII Saix]

Yes, at some point I was more venting than attempting to have a discussion.

--

That's true. For some reason I was assuming he needed to activate it. I definitely do not understand that choice no matter what his role is, then.