Mini 1939 - Organization XIII (Game Over)

[XI Marluxia]

I'm pretty skeptical in general about people who ask to be cop cleared via role and typically find that there's some misguided thought leading there. Not really interested in spending an investigation on Roxas.

[XI Marluxia]

As for Roxas... He's a special case. In flavor, he's the key (literally) to the Organization's entire scheme until the Oblivion Squad screws it up vying for power, and he runs away.

Roles might have flavor justification but that doesn't mean that it will be good flavor justification and it doesn't mean that there will be a correlation between how town someone looks and how powerful their role is.

[XI Marluxia]

Luxord, if you didn't have anything that you wanted to say yet, why didn't you just say you didn't have anything to say?

[XI Marluxia]

You're right, my ISO has been basically all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
I can copy all of my thoughts on everyone here, but my heart really isn't into anything regarding scumhunting yet. Like, I won't be proactive now but I think it can be assumed that I will be eventually? I really don't think there are any motivations to be found by my lack of productivity.

If these were my thoughts so far (my heart really isn't into scumhunting, I haven't found anything interesting yet), and someone asked me to expand on my reads, I think that my response would be something along the lines of "I'm Marluxia, go fuck yourself". My question is why you decided to copy all of your notes over for Lexaeus's sake; it's not like you weren't doing anything while everyone else is having a big scumhunting party, and it's not like he'll be able to read you by your half-thoughts as opposed to when you have things you actually want to talk about.

Does my perspective here make sense or no?

[XI Marluxia]

someone who just put saran wrap over the toilet

How did I get the worst description...?

[XI Marluxia]

...I might just have to replace out. Even when reading on my main, the avatars and usernames are just too similar. It's confusing the hell out of me and I don't know why it's just me and it's really frustrating to have to check names and people again and again. I'll give it one more try tonight.

It will probably be much easier to tell everyone apart later in the game when we all have contributed more than the same 5 useless posts. Alternatively, we could all make up distinctive call signs based on our avatars and names!!

-The Pinkhaired Shitlord

[XI Marluxia]

Unfortunately, I must deliver a very crucial prod dodge. My life has been thrown into a busy spell, but I will deliver the goods when i am able.

[XI Marluxia]

Hello my beautiful men and women and everything in between, all of whom look remarkably similar. My schedule has a bright shiny spot for all of you and so I am officially coming soon

[XI Marluxia]

I don't really have an excuse for not catching up yet (lazy days!), but if my next post lacks content, it will be me replacing out.

[XI Marluxia]

The Graceful Assassin has arrived, so you may bow to the true master of Castle Oblivion. If you have anything that you'd like for me to read or address while I'm catching up, please do so as soon as possible. If your questions are asking me general opinions of players, please avoid wasting the time of us both and hold that questions until after the show.

[XI Marluxia]

I like Larxene's early moxie and I think the claim is more likely to come from town. Investigation-Immune is an oddly difficult role to be faked (if a non-investigative fails to target you or an investigative targets you successfully you're pretty close to busted); it's useful for scum kind of but not really, and so I think there'd be a little extra in Larxene's role other than "Investigative Immune". I guess the most significant piece of early game with her is the fact that she claimed it at all; I sure as fuck wouldn't if I was in her shoes and scum.

I'm a sucker for Lexaeus's general aggression and conviction; in particular, liked the initial attack on Larxene for being like a Godfather (think that scum are generally more cautious than this even when they're comfortable taking the lead) and like the indignant tone that he emanates in posts like this one.

Don't have a significant opinion on Roxas's claim; think there's a decent chance that he's town and has some misguided reason for investigative roles targeting him, but I also think this could be a ploy from scum who benefits from getting investigated somehow.

I have two problems with Zexion's #47. For one, I don't like the attack itself - the thrust behind it seems to be that there's no reason to treat an investigation immune role claim and a "please investigate me" role claim which I think is wildly and obviously wrong. The second problem that I have with it is the accusation that Lexaeus simply hasn't "thought it through enough" - I know that it's a bit silly, but generally when I'm talking to people that I'm scumreading, I don't accuse them of not thinking things through enough - I accuse them of twisting words or misrepping and of lying.

[XI Marluxia]

Saix has a point in that we've all been fucking out for pretty much the entirety of the day; don't quite understand why he feels that slamming through a lynch now as opposed to better decreases our chances of mislynching somehow.

[XI Marluxia]

Although, Saix, if you're so concerned about the looming deadline, why haven't you given an opinion on Xaldin yet?

[XI Marluxia]

Vote: Xaldin

[XI Marluxia]

think it should be abundantly clear to you by now that I'm town especially given the fact that we share scumreads

This is a weird line of though.

[XI Marluxia]

Except when it's not!

I continue to be vaguely comfortable with a Xaldin lynch.

[XI Marluxia]

if you're town here you absolutely need to be getting reads and taking clear stances on wagons right now

Baby steps, Zexion.

1) Stop prod dodging - Success!
2) Post things worth reading - IN PROGRESS
3) Form reads - NOT STARTED
4) Push reads - NOT STARTED
5) Murder scum! - NOT STARTED

[XI Marluxia]

Larxene's content there is that you liked her "early moxie" and you're really liking Lexaeus' aggression yet you're apparently disliking me for being aggressive

Not quite true. I liked Larxene's aggression. That doesn't force me to like everyone who is aggressive. The reasons I disliked you initially had nothing to do with aggression and my post towards you didn't imply anything of that nature.

[XI Marluxia]

and think that I'm wrong despite not actually engaging with any of my stances

If I had a heart, you'd be trampling all over it. Is this really true?

You adopted a stance that said that Lexaeus's treatment of Roxas's and Larxene's claims were meaningfully different and that made him scummy. I engaged your stance by pointing out that their claims were meaningfully different and that's why the differing treatment made sense to me.

My second point was completely silly and completely wrong; I glossed over your "if you are town" part because I smelled blood or got lazy or barely read or something, but it certainly wasn't an observation that required me to engage with a stance of yours.

[XI Marluxia]

we're getting to the stage now where people need to be taking hard stances

I don't quite agree with this, actually. There are plenty of people with hard stances already, and I think having a couple of people around who are much more impressionable might be beneficial, especially since I'm not using my lack of hard stances as a way to skeeve out of choosing a preferred lynch.

[XI Marluxia]

I think that Xigbar is probably town. I don't think the level that he panics about the game going out of control it it's not going exactly how he desires is faked and I don't think the worry about people interpreting his imminent death as a frame kill is faked.

I think his argument that Zex is scum who hates bussing and is trying to keep their partner alive by saying they're not lynching them to spite Xigbar is a little wonky, though - if Xaldin is scum, Zex most definitely isn't.

[XI Marluxia]

As we're waiting for our confirmed town quickhammer, let's all take a moment to remember this exchange:

I can't babysit this game indefinitely. I am 100% confident that Xaldin flips scum to the point that I'm fine offering to be lynched if they don't. They're just not town.
Nothing in their play is town motivated. The way they talk isn't town motivated. The way other people have maneuvered around trying to keep them alive isn't town motivated.
Unless there's some staunch disagreement with my townreads the only potential scum votes on them were either super short lived or made and kept by an absent slot.

Wagons don't just fucking fade out like this one has. Not with me spending the entire game sitting there. Not with him doing absolutely fucking nothing towny of note.
I'm never unvoting that slot as long as it's alive and if you managed to mentally circlejerk yourselves tomorrow into thinking I was shot to frame him then you deserve to lose.

Zex how the can you scumread both me and xig? It makes no sense.

[XI Marluxia]

Sorry are you jumping on the Xig was bussing bandwagon too?

How does my post tie you two together in any way? I was merely noting that Xaldin's response to your post was hilariously awful.

[XI Marluxia]

Roxas's gambit amused me, but a real hammer would be much much better.

I'd also be willing to believe there was scum in Xigbar/Zexion if either one had a case on the other/reasoning that didn't sound crazy, but nothing good has been produced so far and they both look fine individually.

[XI Marluxia]

I kind of feel like he doesn't join what's essentially a vanity with a scumbuddy on Marluxia though; feels aligned with Marluxia to my currently addled brain???

It's a vanity wagon on a town player who has prod dodged more than he's made content posts, meaning that he doesn't even need a case to vote me.

Vote: Axel

[XI Marluxia]

And yes, I am still mostly just following Xigbar, which means if he replaces out I'll probably follow him on that front too.

[XI Marluxia]

Because

you've literally been what's made this game fun for me.

And while no one will miss me, I will be doubling the inconvenience for Antihero and TTH, who are nice people who don't deserve it.

[XI Marluxia]

Vote: Larxene

I liked Larxene 1.0. I feel very strongly that the Axel claim is a scumclaim to buy him an extra day, but don't have the charisma to push that lynch through. I don't think following a townread on a good vote is the "stupidest thing ever"; I think voting said townread would be the "stupidest thing ever".

[XI Marluxia]

Saix is town. Please go bother someone else.

[XI Marluxia]

Can someone explain to me a world where Saix will tunnel down my throat for "not posting enough in-game content" but doesn't say shit about Marluxia other than calling him a SR once and forgetting about him the entire game?

I don't really like you whining about all lurkers not being treated fairly by Saix. I don't think that it's a real attempt to read him, especially when he said that he was willing to lynch me earlier, when he had more reasons to jump your shit other than "not posting enough", and when he was pretty open about you not being a significant read for him earlier, just the most significant.

I was playing around with voting you earlier but I see no reason why I shouldn't now; your role does look town but scum play is scum play.

Vote: Axel

[XI Marluxia]

Marluxia, you think that Axel is scum? How do you feel about Vexen chainsawing the fuck out of everyone who goes after him? Everyone, that is, except Zexion, who he only asks questions to.

I have a few problems with Vexen. I do think that you have a point that his attacks look slimy. I think his exchange with you (what little I've read of it, I get bored trying to make sense of it) seems like he's more interested in educating you on how to behave properly and talk about how much he likes Thor and how you're not him - not sure how that's supposed to be him reading you. I think that his attack on Roxas for faking the double vote is super duper bad (and also think it's a bit fishy that he didn't defend Larxene during that time if she was one of his top town reads but I might be misremembering the sequence of events there).

What do you think of my commentary on Axel's odd "Why me" post?

[XI Marluxia]

<snip>

Your attack on Saix was slimy because of how hard you tunneled on an insignificant basis. The thrust of your case against him was that his tunnel on Axel had bad reasoning supporting it, and you ignored places where he looked town in his push on Axel. If I were in your position and townreading Marluxia as hard as you were, I would have defended her harder before the deadline lynch have. The nature of your read seemed like it was beneficial to a scum you. I thought your attack on Roxas for "lying" was shallow - no town motivation, perhaps, but didn't see the scum motivation you do.

I'm not super interested in having a big drawn out discussion like you seem to be. My observations are not definite scum tells, simply things that I think make sense coming from you as scum. If you are concerned about me townreading you, continue scumhunting and playing the game and with any luck I'll be able to town read you in the end. If you are concerned about reading me, attack me.

[XI Marluxia]

Axel is town by role.

Why is Axel's role town? It blocks a kill, sure, but it doesn't allow town power roles to action, and it doesn't give us an additional mislynch.

I dislike this read. I think it's a lazy position and one that a partner is likely to take, as Xigbar noted before.

[XI Marluxia]

<snip>

You and I are cut from different cloths, Vexen. Whereas it might be in character for me to sheep and prod dodge for the entirety of a day, you've written beautiful poetry about how great and persuasive and hard to lynch you are. Shouldn't a player of your caliber be defending your townread with righteous indignation?

"He claims mason as scum!" doesn't justify pushing on something that lacks scum motivation. The rest of your posting is either something that I've explained already, or is something that I don't feel will be productive to engage.

[XI Marluxia]

I'm a little bothered by 1007; you seem to doubt that Axel's role is town but you held the same opinion in 920

Axel's role looks town, which means that it's more likely town than not in a vacuum. Vexen is pretending his role confirms him as town, which just isn't the case.

[XI Marluxia]

And while I wasn't all that interested in voting Vexen before our interaction, I think I'd get a deep satisfaction from voting him now.

[XI Marluxia]

Does that mean you'd prefer not to talk reads?

I don't know what you mean by talk reads.
I don't do reads lists, and I've already talked about the reads I feel like talking about. Are you asking me to "talk reads" because you have concerns with my reads? Are you trying to get a read on me?

[XI Marluxia]

I'm not really interested in readslist either Marluxia; I want to hear about whichever reads you have right now that you care about. I don't feel like I have a real sense of what your reads are by going through your ISO and I'd like that to change.

I'd defend Saix and Xigbar from a lynch.
I'd complain if a Roxas one was going through, but I don't really know why.
I would prefer if one of Axel or Vexen gets lynched.

I think these reads are clear enough in my ISO, minus Roxas. What are yours?

[XI Marluxia]

Vote: Vexen

Demyx, if you are being annoyed, I highly encourage that you jump on board. Roxas probably isn't happening today unless I am completely wrong about thread sentiment and it makes sense to give Xaldin a chance to prove himself with a triple track so you might as well do something that will make you happy.

[XI Marluxia]

Marluxia my reads are that I think there's a pretty good chance you're scum with Demyx and either Xaldin or Luxord.

This is like rain on my wedding day, if such a thing actually was ironic.

[XI Marluxia]

Vote: Saix

Please remember everyone is hated today. This is L2

And this is like when two kids are talking behind your back and then they laugh and point at you but when you confront them they act like nothing happened.

[XI Marluxia]

This is not only a well reasoned post, but an excellent one. It's excellence shining through like this one that make me sure that Saix on D1 was faking his competence level. Town has 0 reason to fake their confidence level. At all.

Your argument here is that Saix asked one good question and told someone to stop tunneling them and thus he was faking his competence level the entire game and is thus scum. This is an insane argument to make.

[XI Marluxia]

Vote: Saix

Please remember everyone is hated today. This is L2

FTR, I have varying degrees of townreads or needs a cop reads on everyone except

Xal
Saix
Dem
Lux

I'm fairly certain lynching those four is an autowin, and I don't want Xal to go before using his triple-track so he has to be tomorrow. Today, Saix has given me the impression that he actually does know what he's doing, which is even more damning of his behavior D1. Pretending to be VI to get townreads is not at all something town does, and I can definitely see someone trying that in this.

Not gonna vote there until Xig gets his chance to make me laugh with an attempt at lynching me, but I'm almost certainly gonna vote there later.

These posts are what fuel my Vexen TR.

Vote: Saix

Please remember everyone is hated today. This is L2

And this is like when two kids are talking behind your back and then they laugh and point at you but when you confront them they act like nothing happened.

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Xigbar did comment on the buddy buddy tho

-Why is Axel scumreading Saix?
-Why does Vexen's post look town?
-Why did Axel feel the need to post #1183?

Next on: the Chronicles of Axel's posts that no one cares about but probably should!!

[XI Marluxia]

If I'm wrong make me understand why I'm wrong here?

It seems more understandable to me for a town player to see a weird claim that doesn't benefit town at all and push on them until someone goes "that doesn't make sense, millers are totally a thing" than it does for a scum player to pretend that they don't know millers exist and then back off later. Why would scum make a push that they knew was stupid and knew would later be debunked unless the playerlist was completely incompetent?

I also think town is more likely than scum to jump to conclusions like that; if he was scum, he would know Larxene was town and thus would be less liable to see odd points in her claim. I don't think scum would make a push like that for towncred.

[XI Marluxia]

I was feeling really confident that Xig was town. Then I realized who they probably are and it completely fucked everything.

I don't really care who they are. This is how townies play.

[XI Marluxia]

There are places where he demonstrates an understanding of mafia and how to play it that directly clash with other posts he makes where he demonstrates no such understandings.

Not everything that you believe is true. You may have a strong opinion on the "right way to play mafia", but there isn't an established right way to play mafia.

If he's new but has a few games under his belt, some of your discrepancies are null and void.

He hasn't talked about his skill level at all and hasn't pretended to be a caricature of a mafia player, so the only reason you think he's new is because you disagree with some things that he said. That's insane.

[XI Marluxia]

Vote: Demyx

[XI Marluxia]

Yes they're both scum so why did you unvote one of them

If you bring the fire and get a Vexen wagon back, you have my scythe. If you don't, I'll be protecting my town reads in the best way I have available to me - supporting wagons that aren't completely terrible.

[XI Marluxia]

you voted Demyx with reasoning that may or may not be good, if you're town and Demyx is scum and Marluxia is scum then she hopped on for the bus at basically the exact moment you'd expect.

Your argument seems to be that Luxord should understand your suspicion of his vote because my vote came after his and didn't have reasoning behind it and could or could not be a bus. I wouldn't be convinced by that argument, although I don't really know what "being convinced" looks like when presented with an argument like this one.

[XI Marluxia]

Saix will never answer that question

Big post coming tonight

I know I owe a longer post but I wholy disagree but respect Xemnas' opinion. Reeks of scum fustration.

Saix's lynch boner for me is too big to shoot you.

vote: Zexion

One can only hope.

[XI Marluxia]

Roxas, for what it's worth, I think that your feelings on Luxord are almost definitely correct.

[XI Marluxia]

I'm pretty much ready to vote Vexen again, but I'd like to see a few votes come off Saix first.

[XI Marluxia]

I don't think a scum player would claim this.

I do but I've got no intention of pushing that through, so.

A better way of saying it would be that I don't think the kind of player Saix appears to be would claim this as scum.

Do you disagree?

Confirmable killing roles aren't exactly common scum claims - additional killing power is pretty unbalanced in scum hands and claiming something that will get you killed the instant you can't prove it when there are a number of people in your corner seems like a weird play.

[XI Marluxia]

I wholy disagree but respect Xemnas' opinion.

Xemnas, didn't you say earlier that you were scumhunting based on people's interactions with you? You don't have a comment for this at all?

[XI Marluxia]

I would like to use my passive killing ability (death for someone who nightkills me) rather than active killing ability (vig).
The first ability ensures a town till the endgame. If I use my vig ability, I will be an effective VT and have less of a use to the town.

The passive ability is pretty great if you were a universal townread and someone who was likely to be killed by scum. The active one is pretty great if you're widely suspected.

As of right now, you fit into the second category. Maybe you can rally the town to stand behind you, but people are dumb and unless you pull out some crazy stops you're probably going to have to resort to using the active killing ability.

[XI Marluxia]

For Lord Vexen, breaker of games, a tribute from your loyal servant:

*If someone targets me at night for a nightkill

[XI Marluxia]

Vote: Vexen

I think accusing Xaldin/Saix of pushing you because they hate you is probably some excessive drama queening, but the Vexen/Xigbar choice is pretty obvious to me.

[XI Marluxia]

Still happy with Vexen lynch.
Still interested in Axel for tomorrow; have absolutely no idea what Zexion's "I had faith and it paid off big" is supposed to mean when he didn't actually do anything that looked town.

[XI Marluxia]

Or, would be happy with it if it was something we could manage but apparently not.

[XI Marluxia]

Zexion, why did you neighborize Axel? Did you know you'd have a post restriction when doing so?

[XI Marluxia]

Axel's commentary on his PT interactions seems genuine, which means that I think that Zexion-Axel is considerably more unlikely than I did before. Axel's interactions with Vexen and Vexen's interactions with him still bother me, but Zexion neighborizing Axel to essentially stick his tongue out at Xigbar doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

[XI Marluxia]

OH - Ok. I'm stupid. I forgot Lex was a night kill.

This also raises Axel's stock a bit, in my opinion. It's a fairly smooth townslip if it's coming from scum and he doesn't seem like he'd have that range as scum.

[XI Marluxia]

Zex doesn't have post restriction. That's stupid.
Stop feeding into that nonsense

This acting as the basis of Demyx's push today is also absolutely atrocious. I don't know if it's typical for him as a player, but none of his pushes this game have seemed genuine; they've all been shallow and poorly reasoned.

[XI Marluxia]

Axel being town would make Xaldin more likely to be scum, but he doesn't look particularly scummy. Am still probably most confident lynching in Demyx/Axel and moving onto Zexion if we see a town flip in Axel and revisiting some of my weaker townreads if Demyx flips town.

[XI Marluxia]

Do you think scumXaldin targets those three players as scum tri-tracker? And then actually claims the results?

Yes. There's more utility in Xaldin trying to use his action in a town-looking way than there is having him find more power roles and kill his towncred as a result when there are already plenty of kill targets on the table for scum.

[XI Marluxia]

Zexion's claim makes more sense with Axel's clarification, and, as a result, my concerns surrounding him using his night action on Axel have mostly faded.

[XI Marluxia]

Vote: Demyx

[XI Marluxia]

I honestly have thought Axel's frustrations with Zex's ptStuff looks kind of real and pretty much every time I've thought they were scum, they've responded in a way that made me feel a lot less sure about it.

I'm not particularly invested with dealing with this right now, but being frustrated about communication issues isn't indicative of alignment in anyway whatsoever. I don't know what town reactions you're talking about when he hasn't actually responded to your case against him from what I can tell.

[XI Marluxia]

At the end of the day, Saix has a claim that basically is the exact same thing as yours

Having a vig shot isn't "basically the same thing" as Xigbar's role. There's no reason for him to shoot Xigbar as town when Xigbar will block and waste his shot. Him defending Vexen against Xigbar (despite scumreading Vexen) is pretty much to be expected when Xigbar is his strongest scumread and they're engaged in a 1v1.

[XI Marluxia]

has been coasting by on the same read for the last two cycles without engaging anyone on it in any meaningful kind of way that basically allows him to do nothing

You're painting his Xigbar push as the path of least resistance but tunneling the hell out of the most aggressive player in the game isn't that at all, especially since he continues to hold that position even after the Vexen scumflip that has most people calling Xigbar town.

[XI Marluxia]

I will say that the frustration about Zexion feels townier than it would otherwise because Axel hasn't even remotely tried to use Zexion's inability to communicate to paint them as scummy.
Really wouldn't be hard to try and take advantage of that. Instead he's coming across as someone demotivated and doesn't know who scum is.

This line is remarkably similar to "that person with a post restriction looks town because they're trying to communicate and it would be so easy not to communicate!", which I don't find to be valid at all.

[XI Marluxia]

Part of Saix's claimed role is that he shoots anyone who shoots him.
In effect, if you think Xig is town and Saix is town, that means town had the potential for three passive abilities (with Lex's final upgrade) that would severely punish scum for nightkilling any of them.

Luxord doesn't get to use elite bodyguard until Night 4 at the earliest, which means we're probably looking at him using it when there are 6 players alive (best case scenario), or while heading into LyLo/MyLo if either Axel or Saix use their power, which means that factoring it into overall balance seems silly to me. You're right that Xigbar arrowgun power seems excessive with Saix's - my personal assumption is that it doesn't work on kills and Xigbar is lying as a disincentive for someone to shoot him, but if Saix flipped town, I wouldn't powerlynch Xigbar. Would you?

[XI Marluxia]

Again why do you care if Axel is off the table today?

I'm not particularly invested with dealing with this right now, but

Please don't pretend that you've never responded to something simply because you disagreed strongly with it. The second quote is me acknowledging that the Axel line of thought isn't the most pertinent thing to address right now, but still something I wanted to address.

[XI Marluxia]

Being stubborn is only town if it seems real.
Saix's play is super fucking wooden right now.
Read his last post.
Read it.
And look at me.
With a straight face and tell me "oh hey wow that's a real person with real thoughts and feelings saying something they genuinely think and feel".

This isn't a valid argument. This is you dressing up your gut with rhetoric.

Saix has said things this game that I disagree with and he's said things that I think are stupid, but I don't think that "I disagree with you" automatically translates to a scumread or else I'd be scumreading both you and the IC.

[XI Marluxia]

It literally makes no sense that Saix has had no interest in shooting Xig, while also being able to recognize that he's not going to be able to get him lynched.

He thinks that his power that makes sure that scum can't kill him is very very strong and doesn't want to use it unless he sees a clear reason to.

Xigbar, presumably the only person he would consider shooting, is a claimed reflexive roleblocker.

The most likely result in him shooting his scumread is him getting blocked and losing his shot and getting lynched. Why would he have interest in shooting Xigbar?

[XI Marluxia]

Jesus this is such a shit tunnel if Saix is town, even if Xig does end up being scum.

So you're telling me that Saix's reasons for it being ridiculously wrong have absolutely nothing to do with you finding his tunnel fake?

[XI Marluxia]

It can't be because you don't feel he hasn't put enough into it because Xaldin has also offered a pretty lazy tunnel on Xigbar but you don't feel the same way about that.

[XI Marluxia]

Which leaves us as "you feel it's fake because it just feels really, really fake" in which that's good and well but that should never be the cornerstone of a case that's lynching someone who could be confirmable town.

[XI Marluxia]

I wouldn't powerlynch him if Saix were to flip town, no, but I'm probably going to be scared of him if he's around D5-D6 and we haven't hit another scum.

In other words, the role argument doesn't actually mean much to you because I'm assuming you'll be scared of him around D5-D6 and we haven't hit another scum whether Saix is dead and flipped town or not. Am I wrong?

[XI Marluxia]

P-Edit: I mean it's certainly felt like the bulk of your attention/focus has been on trying to make me feel stupid about my lame poorly thought out gut Axel townlean.

Sometimes the things we feel don't necessarily reflect reality.

[XI Marluxia]

What about the last few pages makes you see scum? What hard associations are you referring to?

[XI Marluxia]

Xaldin, same question to you. Do you think it makes sense to give the Zexion/Axel neighborhood investigation day to resolve?

Why do you think that Saix is scum?

I'm willing to table Zexion/Axel for the day but my preference isn't exactly rock solid. I've suspected Axel for a while and think he is pretty likely to flip scum; there's a big potential upside if and only if he is town (although I haven't seen anyone who has a good reason for him being town), but killing him now frees up Zexion's investigative ability which is still beneficial.

[XI Marluxia]

As I understand Zexion's ability, they neighborize Axel tonight and target him again for a cop result (but as I put it to words, I'm starting to think that I might have made assumptions I shouldn't have). If I'm not an idiot, that means that lynching Axel today means that Zexion can use his ability on someone else.

Why do you think that Saix is scum?

[XI Marluxia]

I think Demyx also damns Marluxia due to voting track record.

This doesn't make sense. Please put more effort into faking your cases.

[XI Marluxia]

We have 4 players in prod range. One of them has done nothing of significance this game day. 2 have done nearly nothing of significance this game day. I'd like to see that change before the day ends. Otherwise, I'd hammer now.

Think getting a claim from Demyx is more important than getting blood from the various turnips lying around. Don't really understand what you're expecting to get out of them, either - if they haven't contributed anything worth reading for the first two weeks of the game Day, what makes you think they will suddenly be useful in the last four days?

[XI Marluxia]

There seems to be no purpose to what you just said. I wanted to give him the opportunity to claim - nothing lost if he refuses but I do believe it's good and proper play to give someone a chance before hammering them.

[XI Marluxia]

Can we hammer him now, or would you like to give the lurkers a chance to prod dodge again?

[XI Marluxia]

towntell

?

[XI Marluxia]

the sweeping extreme half-baked statements you make

Why did you have to towntell q.q

I'm not sorry for asking you to expand on your thoughts; your response to me asking you to explain a very strong stance that you took with no expressed reasons is completely unreasonable and I think that you're aware of that.

[XI Marluxia]

I think that adding in a watcher in addition to a night skipper in addition to the evolving protective role is strangely skewed balance wise. I find the timing of his claim weird - the self-vote came at a time when he was supposedly resigned to die, but I don't think suddenly deciding to claim is consistent with that.

I'm mostly just waiting for Zexion to elaborate on what exactly is going on here, though; don't think letting replacements catch up is hugely important unless they have the drive to catch up before the end of the Day.

[XI Marluxia]

Why don't you just replace out?

[XI Marluxia]

As I understand Zexion's ability, they neighborize Axel tonight and target him again for a cop result (but as I put it to words, I'm starting to think that I might have made assumptions I shouldn't have). If I'm not an idiot, that means that lynching Axel today means that Zexion can use his ability on someone else.

Why do you think that Saix is scum?

Why didn't Zexion take issue with Vexen claiming something so similar to his role? :/

He did.

[XI Marluxia]

Said the person who won't acknowledge half the game could possibly be scum.

To Roxas's credit, your efforts to convince him that anyone outside of his proposed scumpool could possibly be scum have been underwhelming at best. I also don't know why you decided to engage in this in the first place - do you just enjoy banging your head against a wall or...?

[XI Marluxia]

and then using it on a claimed reflexive roleblocker N2.

This is good reasoning. As I've pointed out before, the loud watcher role doesn't really make sense for town when we already have the Lexaeus role; they both function as protective roles, but Demyx's is strictly better.

[XI Marluxia]

TBH I would've thought his scumbuddies would have talked him out of targeting a reflexive role blocker if he had any. If he were a role cop that target makes a lot of sense given Xig 1's softing. But vexed had a role cop ability so... probably not gonna be two

Xigbar already claimed reflective roleblocker by night 2, so your rolecop line of thought doesn't make any sense at all.

Assuming that Demyx's scumpartners would have talked him out of making a stupid move assumes that A) he has an active scumpartner (really bad assumption here), and 2) that he's coordinating with his scumteam/gave them a heads up (also seems like a very bad assumption).

[XI Marluxia]

Kinda can't believe I'm reading this post.

Why not? Please choose from the following options:

-I can't believe that a lurker is criticizing a lack of effort!
-I can't believe that Marluxia brought up a good point!
-I can't believe that Marluxia is criticizing such a productive conversation; Roxas totally has been giving in depth reasoning for things and my rebuttal to his points have been extremely thought provoking!

[XI Marluxia]

I can't believe anyone came away from that conversation thinking I was the one who needed to rethink anything. It wasn't pointless because the rest of you presumably read it...

My point wasn't that you needed to rethink anything (except perhaps your decision to engage Roxas in the first place). My point was that the discussion you were having wasn't going anywhere and didn't have a potential of going anywhere. Maybe this was redundant advice, but at the time I thought it needed to be said.

[XI Marluxia]

Xigbar already claimed reflective roleblocker by night 2, so your rolecop line of thought doesn't make any sense at all.

They could have been hoping for him not to use it, I mean. Xig 1 claimed to also have a powerful investigative ability, yes?

Generally, "reflexive" means that its activation is automatic aka he'd be forced to use it.

[XI Marluxia]

Old Saix was afraid of shooting and losing his ability - he figured scum would have something to mess with him and didn't want to lose what he saw as strong town utility in being unkillable town if he didn't have to. While I disagree with the line of thought, it's certainly a believable one.

I also thought that Saix's deathtunnel on Xigbar made more sense than Xaldin dropping the line completely. I thought that Xigbar looked remarkably town before the Vexen flip, and the general push against him seemed entirely paranoid and emotional in a way where I wouldn't expect the feelings to fizzle out completely in the event of a scum flip.

[XI Marluxia]

We've gained nothing much yet aside from more content from a better Saix, but your replacement may make something of your slot (again). If I hadn't townread Demyx 1.0, I wouldn't care about seeing what a replacement does. But, I did, and I think you've just trolled the game for whatever reason. Your own amusement, probably.

We've been sitting on our hands for five plus days waiting for people to continue to do nothing. This would not be as bad as it is if you (the person so invested in waiting) were actually doing something with the time/the content generated, but you're not. You're just sitting there. The people who have shown interest in catching up have caught up. The day has been going on for almost a month. It's time to get on with our lives.

[XI Marluxia]

You don't think it's possible that the flip changed his mind and he just didn't feel the need to make a point of coming out and saying that?

The flip is what changed his mind. I just don't think that him pushing your slot to the degree that he did and then dropping it completely based on the flip was natural.

[XI Marluxia]

Thank you.

[XI Marluxia]

Vote: Axel

I'm willing to claim, but think that it only makes sense for Zexion to claim his result first.

[XI Marluxia]

i came up with a solution
marluxia claims the role abilites but not the name.
after i say the role name and we see if it makes sense.

This doesn't make sense to me. It's too insignificant to dig my feet in on it, but I would like you to explain why you wanted me to go first - what are you afraid of here?

My ability is that I can make a full, non-factional ability one-shot. It's too high risk low reward for me and so I haven't used it.

[XI Marluxia]

1) Has anyone else been unwavering in their support of Saix town?

You're currently criticizing me for having a strong town read on someone who is town. You can call me overconfident I guess, but, considering the other people running around in this game, I find you singling me out in particular pretty dumb.

[XI Marluxia]

This supports my main theme that Marluxia doesn't justify his prior reads and statements with action. I had a huge post about this but I am honestly not sure if I posted it. I delete a lot of my posts in the post-editing process just because I am not satisfied with the message or tone that they convey.

I suggest you start posting a little more and editing a little less because currently the message you've conveyed is that you're too drunk, tired, and bored to cobble together a point that makes any sense at all.

[XI Marluxia]

so its a vanillaizer only bad?

That's correct.

[XI Marluxia]

esp. given that with a 1 shot vig in the game the nightskip puts us back on odds and therefore adds a ML.

I think this is a decent point and the strongest reason to consider Axel as town.

I'd also like Zexion to confirm that Axel's role name is "nightskipper", if possible.

[XI Marluxia]

Axel, I never intended to attack your character. The only observation I made about you is that you edit too much to the point where you don't make the points you are trying to make.

[XI Marluxia]

I don't think Marluxia anticipated that Vexen would actually be a lynch and there's reason to substantiate that. I'm not sober enough to go through it nor have the care.

I interpreted this statement as you saying that you had a case for why my push on Vexen was distancing, but you were too drunk and bored with the game in general.

[XI Marluxia]

I can go in-depth but I already did that in another post and I'm kind of tired of this game (nope, I'm not replacing)

This is you saying that you could go in depth (you haven't, you've alluded to points plenty but you've never produced), but you didn't because you were tired.

I didn't use those adjectives to describe you as a person, I used those adjectives because they were the ones you used to explain why you weren't making the points you wanted to.

If you're offended by my general tone, I'm blunt. I think that you are scum. If you made a post detailing your case on me and deleted it because you edited it too much, your editing hurt your communication skills. If you think that you're making sense and I'm saying that you're not, then defend yourself -

[XI Marluxia]

It's akin to a vanillaizer, which is like a souped-up roleblocker. It gives the scum a perfect counter for most of the town's power, but not a counter so strong as to utterly trivialize the town's abilities. It feels like the answer to the equation of what scum would have. For instance, if it works on Xigbar, then suddenly, one of the strongest town roles is turned from strongest-town-role into something practically worthless.

Axel skips the night N1. I use the power N2 (it still works). They get one more usage N3. They're a VT night 4. Calling that the "perfect counter to most of town's power" is absolute bullshit, especially when it's a power that I still haven't used.

[XI Marluxia]

(And Zexion somewhere in the middle between the two as a plausible scum role but not my first pick.)

Rolestopper that can also roleblock + neighborizer that also gets role names really seems like a scumteam pick to you?

[XI Marluxia]

Vote: Roxas

I think that if Axel was the scum in the position that he was and pissed at me for picking on him, then it's a more natural reaction to give up as opposed to replace out. I think that Roxas would have made a larger impact at this point in town, I find his interactions with scum (especially Xaldin, which he acknowledged were what he would do as scum) utterly uninspiring, I find his defense of Axel (dripping with conviction, no substance) to be suspicious especially considering his stance on the replace out (I would expect someone who was townreading the slot as confirmation they were right all along as opposed to "it's not scum motivated", and I don't see him doing anything to confirm his town block or showing any trace of paranoia on either of them, which I expect is because he doesn't want the pushback. There are stronger reasons for everyone else being town.

[XI Marluxia]

Why are you scumreading me? What do you think of my thoughts on Roxas?

[XI Marluxia]

Posting to avoid making Heartless look for another replacement. Will be around soon.

[XI Marluxia]

I'm town. I've been playing differently for several reasons, in part so I could disguise my identity and not be held to the usual burden of proficiency. I think that Roxas is a great place to look for tomorrow; her townreading me the entire game and then scumreading me when I became someone she has to mislynch in order to win as scum is a huge red flag, as is the nature of it.