Mini 1939 - Organization XIII (Game Over)

[V Lexaeus]

VOTE: marluxia

its a shame this character is relegated to only being in handhelds...

There's Re: Chain of Memories! And absent silouhettes if you count those.

VOTE: Larxene

[V Lexaeus]

VOTE: marluxia

its a shame this character is relegated to only being in handhelds...

There's Re: Chain of Memories! And absent silouhettes if you count those.

VOTE: Larxene

We're in the same boat, Vexen. At least they remembered me for my winning personality~

VOTE: Lexaeus

I'm Investigative-Immune, losers.

Investigative-immune, eh?
Sounds like a GF if ya ask me

[V Lexaeus]

They fail. Like a roleblock. What else would it mean?

That you're scum

[V Lexaeus]

Investigative-immune, eh?
Sounds like a GF if ya ask me

Sounds like someone doesn't know what I'm claiming! If I was a Godfather a cop would get a town result on me~

And sure, if you want to say it in a totally confusing way. Immune to investigations, that's it. They just fail.

Yes, I understand what you mean.
My point is, semantics aside, Cops are useless on you, just like on a GF, albeit somewhat less powerful.
How does that help a loyal member of the Organization? It doesn't.

Therefore, you're a traitor.

[V Lexaeus]

Investigative-immune, eh?
Sounds like a GF if ya ask me

Sounds like someone doesn't know what I'm claiming! If I was a Godfather a cop would get a town result on me~

And sure, if you want to say it in a totally confusing way. Immune to investigations, that's it. They just fail.

Yes, I understand what you mean.
My point is, semantics aside, Cops are useless on you, just like on a GF, albeit somewhat less powerful.
How does that help a loyal member of the Organization? It doesn't.

Therefore, you're a traitor.

Wait why are they a traitor as opposed to a full fledged scum member?

Sorry, my bad. They are full fledged scum, I just meant traitor as in the flavor.
Should have said treacherous or just scum like I did the first time.

[V Lexaeus]

Yes, I understand what you mean.
My point is, semantics aside, Cops are useless on you, just like on a GF, albeit somewhat less powerful.
How does that help a loyal member of the Organization? It doesn't.

Therefore, you're a traitor.

Have you, like, heard of Millers, or...

A valid point.

Though I feel this is actually worse than a Miller, I suppose you probably wouldn't have claimed it if you wanted to ruin a cop's night...
Very well
UNVOTE:

[V Lexaeus]

While I don't necessarily disagree with that Roxas post, Larxene's role tells us there is almost definitely an investigative who can check him.
And since he asked so kindly........ I say we probably shouldn't lynch him today.

[V Lexaeus]

There's really very little to say about it. At the end of the day it doesn't really make 12 townier or scummier. Although past experience makes a claim like that tend slightly more towards town, to just assume so would be potentially devastating.

I immediately wrote it off as a non-issue. I had assumed 5 Lex to be pushing it just for reactions, and was quite surprised to see that apparently was not the case.

It wasn't entirely not the case.
I like getting out of RVS as quickly as possible, and in a game like this where meta is absolutely impossible, I find it all the more important that we get to "real" content in a timely manner.

That means I latch onto anything I can to start getting reads, and push.

[V Lexaeus]

in a game like this where meta is absolutely impossible

which thank god by the way. Ive always thought the whole meta thing was bullshit and people spent way to much time analyzing it.

Agreed. I'd actually like to see secret alt games become a common category for that reason.

And this theme is PERFECTLY suited for it too.
Our main accounts are like our hearts that have been lost

[V Lexaeus]

Really now?
Tell me what scum motivation there is for letting the investigatives do their job. Tell me how being skeptical of an objectively anti-Town role is scum motivated.

Go on, Zexion. Tell me.

[V Lexaeus]

I am sorting people by play.

It isn't the existence of negative utility Town roles that made me drop that push on Larxene. Hell, I had a whole two paragraphs written up about how this wasn't equivalent to a Miller, and she could still be scum.
I deleted that and unvoted because while writing that post I realized: Scum with a role that screws with investigation wants to actually use it. By claiming, she now does Not get to use it. I expressed this before my unvote.

As for Roxas... He's a special case. In flavor, he's the key (literally) to the Organization's entire scheme until the Oblivion Squad screws it up vying for power, and he runs away.

Alignments do not necessarily match flavor (except for Xemnas I suppose), but it does seem like the role assignments are based on it. So when Roxas claims a super powerful role that benefits immensely from being cop cleared? I believe him, and don't want to waste the effort pushing him with a cop result incoming, and especially don't want to risk a mislynch without getting that sorted.

[V Lexaeus]

VOTE: Luxord

You keep saying your votes have no meaning and no reasoning, allegedly to get readable reactions.

But if you continually announce that your votes are meaningless, how can you expect meaningful responses?

[V Lexaeus]

I disagree.

While of course I don't expect a full readslist or anything yet, it seems like everyone who's posted so far has had something significant to contribute. Except you. Aside from you not wanting to lynch Roxas, your ISO is the equivalent of ¯\_(ツ)_/ ¯.

You can't generate the reactions RVS (which I thought we were past anyway) is supposed to if you don't provoke them

[V Lexaeus]

Relevant flavor overview:
Since multiple people have expressed a lack of flavor knowledge, I'll do my best to give a general overview of what I think will be relevant to the game. Also, expect spoilers for the Kingdom Hearts series.

Spoiler: spoilered for your convenience

Organization XIII is a group of thirteen folks called Nobodies, the hollow shells of those whose hearts have been taken by darkness. Heart meaning soul in KH canon, not the blood-pumping organ. These particular 13 Nobodies were able to not only maintain a physical form, but an approximation of their personalities and memories from their lives, though all emotions are merely emulated. They remember what it was like to have a heart, and seek to recover theirs from the Heartless, beings of pure darkness that steal hearts, created when someone gives into the darkness inside them.

Each member of Organization XIII is given a new name, created by scrambling up their original name and tossing an X in there somewhere, which is why all the names seem similar. The number indicates both the order in which they joined the Organization, and their rank within it, Xemnas at the top, as leader and founder, and Roxas at the bottom as a fresh recruit.

In order to retrieve their lost hearts, they plan to free a shit load of hearts from the Heartless, so they will gather together and create... Kingdom Hearts. Never really clear on what exactly Kingdom Hearts IS, but it's something like the heart of the entire universe/multiverse/whateververse. The catch is that hearts can only be freed by slaying Heartless with a Keyblade, which only one person (at the time, and that they know of) is able to wield: series protagonist, Sora. So they set in motion a scheme to manipulate pretty much everything everywhere and turn Sora into a Heartless, thereby creating a Nobody capable of wielding the Keyblade for them. That's Roxas.

Meanwhile, Sora, who was able to escape the Darkness himself with The Power of Friendship, is guided to Castle Oblivion, where a few Organization members are off working on a sort of backup plan, in case Roxas gets uppity. They're supposed to sorta harvest Sora's memories so they can stuff them into an even emptier shell than a regular Nobody, a simple puppet who would have no true free will, but still be able to swing around a Keyblade. Except these folks start getting... ideas. Rebellious ideas. Larxene and Marluxia figure if they can just get Sora himself to obey them by messing up his memories, they could seize power over Kingdom Hearts themselves, without any need for Xemnas or Roxas or puppet Sora, and can lead the Organization themselves. Meanwhile, Lexaeus( That's me! ), Vexen, and Zexion discover this and start trying to use Riku, Sora's BFF/Archrival/Vessel of a whole bunch of Darkness, to oppose memory manipulated Sora.

Axel is also dispatched to Castle Oblivion, as a sort of undercover cop, sent by Xemnas to identify and eliminate any traitors. So he goes and joins up with Marluxianand Larxene, gaining their trust by killing Vexen, then completely sabotaging their plan after they tell him about it. Sora winds up killing Larxene and Marluxia, while Riku kills Lexaeus and Zexion. All traitors dead, and his job complete Axel leaves the castle, Roxas finds out about a bunch of this stuff, understandably feels used and betrayed, and abandons the Organization, setting up KH2, which has nothing of use to this game.

So, if this game matched canon alignments, Larxene and Marluxia would be the scumteam, but since there is a third scum, that is clearly not the case. Roles however, do seem to be influenced. Larxene's secret treachery being reflected by an ability that hides from the fuzz. I don't think it's enough to try and guess roles based on names, but it can probably be used to at least partially verify claims.

[V Lexaeus]

Dude Im begging you, please stop doing this. Just use the name, its going to make it easier on everyone involved.

Seconded

[V Lexaeus]

You're right, my ISO has been basically all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
I can copy all of my thoughts on everyone here, but my heart really isn't into anything regarding scumhunting yet. Like, I won't be proactive now but I think it can be assumed that I will be eventually? I really don't think there are any motivations to be found by my lack of productivity.

Here's a direct (reformatted from Excel) copy of my notes, with one omission. (Only noting this so if I want to bring it up later, people know.)

2 Xigbar:

Reaction to a relatively calm voteswitch by me in RVS. Weird "if you were scum" Q to 12 in P26. Other than this, gut strongly says town mindset-- but based on not much concrete.

4 Vexen:

Flavor entrance, very standard, empty ISO, voteable.

5 Lexaeus:

Pushes 12 for inv-immune. Probably just in a frivolous/reac-test way. I tend towards townreading. (Okay, nvm. It seemed genuine.) P53 seems pretty town at first glance, feeling strongly as towniest post in the game.

6 Zexion:

Lots of content. Pushes 5 for noisemaking which at face value makes no real sense but is a believable push for town to make. Votes 13 for bad reasons. Overall P47 makes me feel just a little bit weird, entertaining possible narrative of scum with strong presence? Unsure how much conviction he actually has (the less the better, honestly). P56 is towny.

12 Larxene:

Claiming inv-immune. Not impressive but claim tends towards town.

13 Roxas:

Asks to be checked, says will claim if needed. Opens with scumread me and townread 12.

I actually find myself agreeing with most of this, please try to post these thoughts as you have them unless you have a reason to hold off on some.

I have a gut townread on Vexen though. I know there's not much there for me to read, and this is kinda hypocritical even since I'm suspicious of you not posting much content, but idk. Something about him just makes me feel like I can trust him.

[V Lexaeus]

Good tidings, friends. Today is a momentuous day.

Today, we uncover the traitors among us.

VOTE: Demyx

I don't know if this is a post restriction or if whoever you just happen to be the coolest person ever, but please don't stop

[V Lexaeus]

Dance, water, dance!

VOTE: Vexen

I believe both Xigbar and Zexion to be loyal.

Why, why, and why?

[V Lexaeus]

Hi...Tomorrow busy. Will read and post over the weekend.

Weekend's over buddy.

Care to make a real post or two now?

[V Lexaeus]

I've been thinking on the Larxene case a lot actually, but didn't want to post until I'd formed more solid opinions on it.

You're right though Xigbar, the lurking needs to stop and the playing needs to start.


I think the waffling is... Okay, given that it's D1 with only four pages of posts, many of which are just empty filler or fun with the flavor. I do see your point though, I just feel like I'll need to see more before I can judge that properly.

I don't really think the claim treatment is AI at all though. I think you're reading too far into the attitude in the posts, which is just Larxene's personality in flavor. And mafia term or not, immune to investigation is more straightforward than "ascetic but only for investigations."

The claim is what makes her hardest for me to read. My gut is that it's a scummy role to have, but it's also not really a role I'd expect scum to Claim, y'know? It could be a gambit to keep the cops off her, but that would become apparent soon enough, so I'm more inclined to think she's Town not wanting to accidentally waste a cop's action

[V Lexaeus]

VOTE: Xigbar

Simply put, I don't think enough people have posted enough significant content for you to know half the game's identities. I know I'm probably pretty obvious, and I think I'd know Roxas if I'd played with them a few times.

However, the scumteam

[V Lexaeus]

Sorry misclick.

But the scumteam is allowed to share

[V Lexaeus]

Pretty much, yeah.

Without actually revealing the mains, who do you think you know?

[V Lexaeus]

Fair enough

[V Lexaeus]

Sorry about my recent absence.

I will read through the last couple of pages and post thoughts before the night's end.

[V Lexaeus]

Far be it from me to question Lord Xemnas, but I really don't get the Axel scumreads. From anyone.

His posts make sense to me, and while the Saïx push is a bit nitpicky, it seems more like Town confbiasing than scum bullshitting.

Xaldin, however, I can get behind. Three posts and not one of them showing even a hint of Town thinking.

VOTE: Xaldin

Still not sure how Xigbar is supposedly able to know our true names, but in the interest of keeping the spirit of this game alive, I'll ignore it as long as he doesn't try to bring up meta again.

VOTE: Xaldin

[V Lexaeus]

Oh whoops.
Didn't realize I already voted before my Xigbar comment

[V Lexaeus]

V/LA until Monday

I'm moving over the weekend, and likely will not be able to post much. I apologize for the inconvenience

[V Lexaeus]

Alright I'm here and ready to give this game its due attention. I will catch up on reading now, and post soon after.

[V Lexaeus]

Just finished reading, and already posts are starting to blur together. I'll do ISOs on these reads to dig up specifics later, but for now...

Xemnas
Larxene
Xigbar, Axel, Roxas, Demyx
Vexen, Luxord, Marluxia
Xaldin
Zexion, Saix

Conftown
Townread
Townlean
Null
Scumlean
Stronger scumlean

VOTE: Saix

[V Lexaeus]

I am super sorry about my activity lately.
It's honestly inexcusable.

This game made me SUPER excited when it popped up in the queue, and the hype kept itself going at the start, but it's just so... flat now.

The secret alts are cool, Xemnas is AMAZING, and I'm digging my role, but this day phase just seems to be dragging on forever, even though we haven't even hit a normal day's length yet, and it makes it hard to summon the motivation to switch accounts to read half a page and maybe make a response if anything interesting's going on. Which it hasn't for a while.

I haven't completely read much since my last post, but I've skimmed and it looks like more of the same.

Axel is Town, the scumreads continue to baffle me.
Saix is scum, posts absolutely dripping with insincerity and just general skeeviness.

Personally, I think the best way to get this game moving again is to start seeing some FLIPS. Starting with Saix's

[V Lexaeus]

Do you realise that at this point with your unabashed antipathy for Xaldin, an alive scum!Xaldin could be the only reason that you would be spared on N1?

Explain this please. How does not liking a dead scum member make him a target? Why would that scum member living make him not a target?

[V Lexaeus]

Hm.

I still believe that Saix is scum, but Xaldin's also in the pool so I can go there.
VOTE: Xaldin

I think that's L-2

[V Lexaeus]

I have nothing more substantial to contribute at this point.

Do you realise that at this point with your unabashed antipathy for Xaldin, an alive scum!Xaldin could be the only reason that you would be spared on N1?

Explain this please. How does not liking a dead scum member make him a target? Why would that scum member living make him not a target?

Yes you do.

Spoiler:

If anyone caught that slip, be a pal and keep it to yourself please.

[V Lexaeus]

You were at L-1, with intent to hammer from Xemnas.
Why didn't you claim then?

[V Lexaeus]

Yes, I read, I just assumed you would have been online within the 29 hours between Xemnas' post and yours.

[V Lexaeus]

Why didn't you unvote?

Because it's too late now, isn't it?
He's been hammered.

[V Lexaeus]

My how the time does fly.

Luxord's claim is... interesting. I also believe it, though I disagree that it doesn't make sense as scum. While it isn't an explicitly scummy role, it seems to me like it's got decent benefit either way.

And Xigbar, I've gotta ask...
What made you think there was a Strongman in the first place? It's not really a role I see super often... Come to think of it, I don't think I've seen it in ANY of my games on-site.

[V Lexaeus]

I uh.

I don't know who to vote.

Axel's still probtown, Saix is my biggest scumread, but seems an improbable lynch, Xaldin was my compromise lynch, but not lynching with that claim, and with so little time left...

VOTE: Marluxia for now, but I will come back on BEFORE deadline to vote with whoever has the biggest wagon I guess.

[V Lexaeus]

FUCK DAMN IT
I'll go look through my games then because I honestly do not remember.

[V Lexaeus]

Ughhhhh
So much for a game not burdened by my meta.

Regardless, I honestly just didn't realize Strongman was in... Either of those.

I feel like I should replace given that's the second time I've slipped and this time it actually did compromise the game.
But I also don't really want to put a replacement into the hell I've just made for my slot.

Not much I can say though aside from I fucked up.

[V Lexaeus]

While I'll admit, I probably would try something like that as scum, I also pay a lot more attention as scum and would be careful not to make an alt slip that I knew would invalidate my anecdote.

[V Lexaeus]

I'm not lying.

I know the role exists and has been used, but I cannot recall a game I personally have been in with one

[V Lexaeus]

Lexaeus, be a darl and vote Axel would you?

Not unless I really really have to, because I just don't think he's scum.

[V Lexaeus]

I can do Vexen or possibly Larxene.

[V Lexaeus]

UNVOTE:

I need to take a moment and step away for a bit.

I apologize for screwing over the gamestate and making Xigbar out himself too. When I come back I'll have a clearer head and will cast my final vote.

ETA 2 hours

[V Lexaeus]

Yeah, I can do Larxene.
VOTE: Larxene

@Axel
Is that one-shot or can you use it indefinitely?

[V Lexaeus]

It may be worthwhile to save that for MyLo or a similar situation then.

That way we could get a second chance

[V Lexaeus]

So, what's interesting is that PART OF the night did in fact happen.

Luxord neighbored me for his game, but he neither spoke nor made his move before the night ended.

[V Lexaeus]

Mod, do scums have a day chat?
Was the scum PT open before the game began?

I think people need to realise that what Axel did (or didn't) do can't be proven. I would believe his claim only if the answers to both the questions above were negative.

So uh. The gif of Axel, the ability flavor title being a quote from Axel, and the "ground on fire" bit being one of Axel's powers in canon don't count as proof?

Fucking hell, that's it. I'm switching to MafTigers since apparently ScuMobile isn't enough.
Not like anyone didn't know by now anyway but still.

[V Lexaeus]

Well it's hideous, but I'll be damned if I slip again.

[V Lexaeus]

Mod, do scums have a day chat?
Was the scum PT open before the game began?

I think people need to realise that what Axel did (or didn't) do can't be proven. I would believe his claim only if the answers to both the questions above were negative.

So uh. The gif of Axel, the ability flavor title being a quote from Axel, and the "ground on fire" bit being one of Axel's powers in canon don't count as proof?

Nope.
Coz wiping a night could still be a scum ability, and scum!Axel could have either done it himself or could have shared the message from his teammate if the scum pt is open throughout.
If he is a town, he is now effectively a vt. If he is a scum, he is a scum. He is useless to the game. Best to lynch him.

While it technically could be a scum ability, scum has little motivation to actually USE it. And all flavor and mod text points toward Axel being the one to cast it.
And yeah, sure. He's effectively vanilla now. It does Not make him useless.

VOTE: Saïx

[V Lexaeus]

Can someone explain to me a world where Saix will tunnel down my throat for "not posting enough in-game content" but doesn't say shit about Marluxia other than calling him a SR once and forgetting about him the entire game?

A world where Saix is scum and needs lynched perhaps?

[V Lexaeus]

As much as I hate to join the meta club here, seeing as Xigbar pretty much told me who he was, I have to say I think the alt guessing meta shenanigans could be him as either Town or Scum.

I'm leaning Town right now, but I've been rekt by him as scum multiple times before, so I'm willing to sheep if I must, but Saix appears actively scummy sitting here trying to discredit Axel's easily verified claim, and asking Xaldin about his action after a skipped night.

Like.... It seems too scummy to be scum to be living in denial of mod information, but too scummy to be scum just means too scummy to Not be scum these days, so yeah.

[V Lexaeus]

I would rather be lynched to make a point about how badly this town is playing than allow another town lynch.

I'm sorry, but are you implying you're NOT another Town lynch?
And that you weren't responsible for Larxene's mislynch?

Of course you weren't SOLELY responsible there, but it strikes me as odd that you're here talking about how terrible the Town is for a lynch that you supported.

I am... Not sure about that townlean anymore.


About the rest of that post, just because

I

can't read you doesn't mean no one else can. And even then, unless my memory is fucking with me like the strongman thing, I believe I misread Scum!you as Town!you far more than the other way around.

If it weren't for Saix voting you, I'd be tempted to switch my vote now.
Could be a bus vote I suppose, but I don't think that'd happen so early in the day....

[V Lexaeus]

You know, now that you mention it.... Being insulted really makes me reconsider my stance on this.

Thank you for choosing to remind me that I'm shit at Mafia instead of actually trying to dispute anything I brought up against you. That's real fuckin' helpful

[V Lexaeus]

Sigh.
I'm sorry, I know me being an ass about it doesn't help much either. It's just... Frustrating.

I'm going to get some sleep, I'll re-read in the morning and adjust accordingly.
Might replace out actually... I'll make that decision tomorrow with a clear head.

[V Lexaeus]

Apparently by "sleep" I meant "watch YouTube videos about AI all night"
Regardless, I am feeling much better and my headache seems to have subsided, so DOWN TO BUSINESS

(Also I'm not replacing out. I have RENEWED STRENGTH AND VIGOR.)

I'm sorry, but are you implying you're NOT another Town lynch?
And that you weren't responsible for Larxene's mislynch?

I absolutely am another town lynch.
I was responsible for Larxene's mislynch. I'm not calling town terrible because we lynched town yesterday, I'm calling town terrible because well there's a bunch of people not doing anything at all and a bunch of people tunneling me for absolutely no reason.

Alright, I understand the terrible Town bit now, but about you being a Town lynch...
What makes lynching you better than lynching any other Townie here? You're one of the most active players here, so if you are Town wouldn't that hurt us a lot more than say, Marluxia or Luxord, who are the two Least active slots aside from Larxene, who's dead, and Xemnas who is off the lynching table?

I am... Not sure about that townlean anymore.

Because I didn't specifically say another non-me town lynch? That's your reason to doubt your read on me?

It was less that you didn't reaffirm your own Town status and more what I've articulated much better above. This line was also written while I mistakenly believed you meant Town was terrible because they lynched Larxene, which was a much stronger point in my mind.

About the rest of that post, just because I can't read you doesn't mean no one else can. And even then, unless my memory is fucking with me like the strongman thing, I believe I misread Scum!you as Town!you far more than the other way around.

Sorry, but the implication of this post is that fucking Saix and Xaldin can read me. It doesn't take you being a super invested player to realize that neither of them are skilled players nor has the scumread on me any merit. And no fuck you this is exactly what you said in our last game together to justify pushing on me and I find it incredibly unlikely that you wouldn't learn your lesson from last game when my slot was literally a totally free mislynch because people have a complete inability to deal with my slot in a rational manner.

I did not mean to imply that I would be okay sheeping due to Saix and Xaldin. In fact, I specifically stated Saix's vote on you is what KEPT me from voting you as well.

About our previous game... That may have been true at first, but then I just kinda went along with the "He'd never vig wrong!" given by others, and I think that's what actually got you lynched, not me being unconfident in my ability to read you.
It's also worth noting that I chose that angle because it was something I believed I would have done were I actually Town.
Funny how playing scum believably also undermines credibility as town.

[V Lexaeus]

What i don't like abt rox's recent posts is that it gives an impression that he has logically arrived at conclusions after vca and various posts. But in reality, he is picking and choosing arguments and posts that justify his already formed views. The insincerity in reversing the cause and effect relationship (between his views and peoples votes n posts) is really scummy, but it is such an obvious attempt of misinterpretation that it is likely to come from a town.

"Too scummy to be scum" then?

That isn't a thing.

[V Lexaeus]

Why didn't he say that till now, and why are you defending on their behalf?

He did:

Can only use once and only if there's more than 9 players alive - I think that might be a clue in hindsight

I am assuming you felt like dodging the prod, so you came and made a statement. You can go to your hibernation.

I also REALLY don't like how you're trying to shut up Xemnas here. Even if he is just dodging a prod, making a statement is better than not, and telling the one absolute conftown we have to go back to hibernation is.... Well, questionable at best.

1) Too scummy to be scum is totally a thing

Except that if we let people we believe to be too scummy to be scum go, then scum just has to act blatantly scummy to not get lynched.
Scummy behavior should be lynched period.

That said, I actually don't think Roxas is being very scummy in the first place.
I just didn't like Saix using that as an excuse to ignore the slot.

[V Lexaeus]

V/LA for the weekend

[V Lexaeus]

Of course everyone started posting when I couldn't be here.

At any rate, Demyx, what exactly do you hope to accomplish with all this?

And @New Xemnas
Firstly, welcome to the game!

Secondly

What are your thoughts on Luxord's claim?

I know this wasn't meant @me, but I can confirm that Luxord's claim is true, as I was the target last night and the PT got created before Axel skipped it.
I'm still not sure if the role's AI though.

[V Lexaeus]

Xaldin

can you put your Xig case into a few nice points for me? I'm trying to follow your ISO on it and I'm not understanding why anyone should understand why he's scum unless they're sitting in your shoes.

P-Edit: That's okay I didn't want to be welcomed at all.

My bad, I didn't notice you were also a replacement.

Welcome aboard!

[V Lexaeus]

Of course everyone started posting when I couldn't be here.

At any rate, Demyx, what exactly do you hope to accomplish with all this?

And @New Xemnas
Firstly, welcome to the game!

Secondly

What are your thoughts on Luxord's claim?

I know this wasn't meant @me, but I can confirm that Luxord's claim is true, as I was the target last night and the PT got created before Axel skipped it.
I'm still not sure if the role's AI though.

That was my jist. I saw that you had confirmed there was a neighborhood, and that Luxord didn't post in it.

Was it a single night neighborhood or will it be reopened on Night 2?

It wasn't explicitly stated, but I'm pretty sure it's single night.

Luxord, what's the ol' Role PM say there?

[V Lexaeus]

It was because I wasn't thinking of Investigative Immune as a miller when it was claimed, I was thinking of it as a Godfather.

When it was instead described as negative utility for Town, I rescinded that because I wasn't thinking that way previously.

[V Lexaeus]

Hey so.
If you "don't actually care who wins this game"

Replace. Out.

I apologize if this is rude, but if you do not care enough to even pretend to play to your wincon you are adding nothing to the game, and you hoarding a slot that could go to someone willing to actually try to win is just going to make this harder on everyone.

It's fine to get burnt out and need a break. It's not fine to shit around in a game you don't want to play, and I would prefer not to have to waste days on policy lynches over this.

[V Lexaeus]

With that out of the way...

Everyone Townreading Saix:
WHY?

[V Lexaeus]

We share 2/3 of our scumreads. Why don't you get past the fact that you feel the urge to policy lynch me and instead direct your energy at lynching Vexscum?

Vex, not yet. Lynch Axel with me. At best he is a VT now that he has used his power (so he says).

You're really still on about this?

The night skip literally had AXEL'S FACE ALL OVER IT

What's ONE good reason to doubt that he's the one who used it? Just one

[V Lexaeus]

Saix' behavior toward my predecessor is one approach scum sometimes take - denigrate, isolate and demotivate. Town frustrated with a disengaged IC looks different, from what I've seen.

What is a scum to gain from doing that to a confirmed town?
Your slot was already demotivated and isolated without me having to do anything. I may have denigrated them a bit to shake them out of the slumber. I was the only one hankering them to wake the fuck up. They didn't. So, they got replaced.

In what universe does "Go back to hibernating" mean "wake the fuck up?"

Scum has plenty to gain from doing that to conftown, such as silencing them or fostering distrust.
You can't lynch him, but you can still limit his usefulness to Town

[V Lexaeus]

Can someone remind me again why Saix is still alive?

[V Lexaeus]

Nah I'm fucking tired of how I act in mafia games.
If I'm already ruining the game it's only going to get worse.
Sorry for shitting up your game Anti.
I'm not going to let it happen again.

Nonsense, you're not ruining anything!
At least not from my perspective

[V Lexaeus]

Saix' behavior toward my predecessor is one approach scum sometimes take - denigrate, isolate and demotivate. Town frustrated with a disengaged IC looks different, from what I've seen.

What is a scum to gain from doing that to a confirmed town?
Your slot was already demotivated and isolated without me having to do anything. I may have denigrated them a bit to shake them out of the slumber. I was the only one hankering them to wake the fuck up. They didn't. So, they got replaced.

In what universe does "Go back to hibernating" mean "wake the fuck up?"

Scum has plenty to gain from doing that to conftown, such as silencing them or fostering distrust.
You can't lynch him, but you can still limit his usefulness to Town

Nice, original line of attack you have there.

Yeah, it is actually, considering I brought it up several pages ago but you just ignored it so you could handwave it away now.

[V Lexaeus]

The night skip literally had AXEL'S FACE ALL OVER IT

What's ONE good reason to doubt that he's the one who used it? Just one

I believe the implication is that Xig doesn't think Axel's power makes him town.

Xigbar, yes.

Saix is actually trying to say Axel's not the one who did it for some bullshit reason.

[V Lexaeus]

Shouldn't Saix be dead right now if everyone is hated?

6 to lynch with 12 alive is hated.

I don't like this wagon.

What don't you like about it?

It's been hovering around four/five pretty much all day, so it's not like it just came out of nowhere.

[V Lexaeus]

Can you explain why you think that's a townpost?

To me, it just reads like him being obstinate, which is a personality/playstyle thing rather than an alignment thing.

[V Lexaeus]

If someone targets me at night, they will be killed automatically.
I can kill someone at night, but if I choose to do so, I will forfeit the first ability.
So, in effect, I have only one functional power but been given the option to choose out of the two.

Lynching is the only likely way I will be shown the door, unless the scum can afford to reduce by 1. I can go to the endgame if people believe me.

So, a PGO/Vig then?
Do you get that choice every night, or once you kill are you permanently a vig?

[V Lexaeus]

Saix corrected this in their next post. Not a PGO. They kill if targeted by a kill, not targeted by any ability.

My bad, I missed that bit.

In that case...
UNVOTE:

A PGO claim doesn't preclude someone from being scum imo, but being specific to nightkills probably does.

Saix, do you still die if you get targetted by a kill?

[V Lexaeus]

I'm not sure buddying conftown is really AI.

While scum would want to avoid being pushed by you, for obvious reasons, Town is also pretty likely to be amicable given that we know you can be trusted.

I'd be more concerned with scum trying to discredit you as a VI or something similar to mitigate the utility of that trust, which was a major component in my Saix read.

I am going to look through Vexen's ISO for those other alarms though, and may wind up voting anyway.

Saix MIGHT have given me a TINY BIT of tunnel vision

[V Lexaeus]

Mnnnngggghh

Vexen's a hard read for me.
There's a lot I really like about the slot, but also a few posts scattered around that are sketchy enough for me not to just call him Town.

Xigbar, if at any point you feel like actually posting this case of yours instead of promising endlessly to do it later, that'd be great

[V Lexaeus]

Xemnas, do you have a means to protect yourself from a nightkill?

I recognize this is sensitive information, and you are free to refuse to answer if you don't feel comfortable revealing it, but I feel the benefits outweigh the risks right now.

[V Lexaeus]

Vexen, re-read the last page.

Saix is not Quite a PGO, he's a Bomb, and it is lost upon activation of the vig shot.

Also I have a proposal.
I'm a protective role as well, though my secondary function is not investigative, which is why I wanted to know if Xemnas could survive a kill attempt. I was going to use that information to decide whether to protect Xemnas or Saix.

The idea was to protect Saix if Xemnas said he could protect himself, so that when/if Scum tried to kill him, his reflexive kill would trigger but he'd still be alive and his role confirmed.
Otherwise, protect Xemnas for obvious reasons.

HOWEVER, having two protectives provides a unique opportunity.
We protect each other, and become immortal. We're then guaranteed to survive to LyLo. If we can lynch even a single scum, we're guaranteed a win.

There's no downside that I can see here.

[V Lexaeus]

Yeah alright, this is too many protectives to be town.

I think the self-protections claimed by Roxas and Xigbar are more likely to be scum roles than targetted protections like mine and Vexen's.
Axel's, being one-shot and universal, doesn't really conflict imo.

I also think an alignment check on a scum role is... Kinda useless. Though technically he could have fakeclaimed that bit, based on the other known roles it sounds very plausible.

Roxas' conditional bulletproof as Town seems somewhat OP given all the other protections at play here. As scum, it seems fairly weak, requiring a bus lynch to activate, but the double vote compensates for that, and it would theoretically allow Roxas to kill Saix without also dying.

Xigbar's claim could go either way imo. In addition to blocking potential vig shots, it blocks investigations, which is good for scum. But it also prevents scumkills and shenanigans as Town.


HOWEVER, Vexen and I both being Town breaks the game as I brought up already. It's possible his cop check is actually a rolecop, which Does have significant scum utility. Buuuut it's also a damn good role to keep around for Town.

Leaning toward a Roxas or Vexen vote currently, but first...

[V Lexaeus]

@Vexen

Does your role PM mention anything about strongman penetration?

[V Lexaeus]

Just noticed he said shoots as a piece of flavor, but roleblocking all of our protectives N1 is also an incredibly scum oriented move.

I'm going to bed. See you all later.

How did Xigbar roleblock all the protectives N1.
None of us even got to protect anything because the kill didn't execute.

Also where is he claiming PGO. I'm 99% sure he said reflexively roleblocks, not reflexively kills.

[V Lexaeus]

Vexen, re-read the last page.

Saix is not Quite a PGO, he's a Bomb, and it is lost upon activation of the vig shot.

Also I have a proposal.
I'm a protective role as well, though my secondary function is not investigative, which is why I wanted to know if Xemnas could survive a kill attempt. I was going to use that information to decide whether to protect Xemnas or Saix.

The idea was to protect Saix if Xemnas said he could protect himself, so that when/if Scum tried to kill him, his reflexive kill would trigger but he'd still be alive and his role confirmed.
Otherwise, protect Xemnas for obvious reasons.

HOWEVER, having two protectives provides a unique opportunity.
We protect each other, and become immortal. We're then guaranteed to survive to LyLo. If we can lynch even a single scum, we're guaranteed a win.

There's no downside that I can see here.

This is very .

First, scum would never try to kill Saix here, so protecting him would be a waste of time.

Second, outing himself does absolutely nothing for town (assuming he is town) given that he would not have been shot over me and Xemnas tonight. We also wouldn't be guaranteed a win given both of us town and a single scum lynch, because 2v2 is still a scumwin.

Correct, but if both of us are Town and invincible, and Saix is Town, that's a 3v2. Scum then has to kill Saix, because we'd be immortal, and one dies in the process, making it 2v1.

Plus, even if it does somehow wind up as 2v2, we can't die if we're on each other, so that's a draw which is still better than a scumwin.


Protecting Saix before you claimed was contingent on Xemnas not needing protection. Scum would have to kill Saix eventually, but with me on him, while unclaimed, that kill would not be a 1 for 1 trade, but only the attempted killer would die, as Saix is protected.

[V Lexaeus]

Readwise, where I'm at right now is that either Vexen or Xigbar Must be scum.
Xigbar's claim is peculiar in that roleblocks are supposed to trump strongman kills.
However, claiming that a strongman breaks through regardless makes absolutely no sense as scum, because that situation should never arise.

Which is what makes Vexen's claim look shaky in that he does Not include the strongman exception. Either strongmen can pierce reflexive roleblocks in this game or they can't.

What keeps me from making a solid choice on one or the other though is that Vexen's investigation claim, if true, does absolutely nothing for scum. Commuting however, as Xigbar claims he can do, has a purpose as either alignment.

I wanna say Vexen, but... Well a protecting cop is Good Shit if he is Town, and I don't want to lynch that claim and have it turn out to be true.

I think I'm gonna have to
VOTE: Xigbar

Assuming the worst case scenario in that whoever I settle on is the wrong choice, I'd rather lose a commuter than a protectigator.

And if you do flip Town, Vexen no longer has a leg to stand on and is pretty much guaranteed scum.

[V Lexaeus]

VOTE: xigbar

1 you are all pretty shit
2 it's still zex vexen Axel but feel free to Lynch lex for being as bad as he is

Hey, fuck you too buddy.

@Lex

, why are you assuming that scumVexen would be telling the truth about any portion of his role? The investigative part of his role is obviously 100% a lie if he's scum, no?

I'm not, and yes it is. Even if he is scum and being honest, it doesn't help us at all.

My predicament isn't that I don't want lynch Scum!Vexen.
It's that if I'm going to be wrong, I'd rather be wrong about Xigbar, who is just now claiming to be super powerful game-breaking investigative, as soon as I say him not having one makes him a safer lynch. Convenient, eh?

This is where the game is won or lost because I fucking guarantee you that if you don't lynch scum with me today you'll never lynch scum. You'll get caught up on some shit Demyx wagon, then lynch the people who were vote parking me, and you'll drown in your general lack of competence at this game as a group.

Then why am I an acceptable policy lynch?
I know that this kind of arrogance is kinda your Thing, but if we have to lynch who you say is scum Right Now or forfeit the game... You probably shouldn't be literally telling scum "Hey mislynch Lexaeus and I won't care!"

Me taking some time off is not at all AI, nor is it relevant to the strength of my reads: if anything the fact that I came back and did a complete reset and still had Vexen as 100% scum is a testament to the strength of that read. If he flips town Saix can fucking vig me and I will not block the kill.

Why in the fuck would you say this as Town.
IF you are Town, why does you pushing a mislynch mean Saix should give up his bomb and kill another Townie at the same time??
As scum this would be the ideal outcome though, because you just commute anyway and suddenly Saix is open as a kill target.

[V Lexaeus]

There may be games where I buy into your "I'm the only competent player, fuck everyone else" schtick, but not this one.

[V Lexaeus]

Then leane don't play against your win condition.

Can I get some examples of playing against wincon?
Is listing townreads as viable lynch choices against the Town wincon?
What about volunteering to get shot and neutralize a Town PR, is that against a Town wincon?


On a less snarky note,
How would the mods know Saix doesn't actually scumread you, and why would they reveal that information to you if they did know?


P-edit:
Alright, I don't need this shit.
Xigbar, I have nothing against you personally, I'd even go as far as to say I like you most of the time.
But if you really can't play the game without calling anyone who crosses you a fucking idiot, then you need to reevaluate the belief that you're the only person on the site that knows how to play well.
You are a good player. Absolutely better than I am. I don't deny that, and there are many things about your play that I look up to.

But I play Mafia to have fun, not to be constantly insulted and condescended to for Daring to oppose The Greatest Scummer Who Ever Lived.

Replace me out when you get a chance please

[V Lexaeus]

UNVOTE:

I will let my replacement sort this nonsense out, because while I certainly do Not scumread you in every game (Ironically, the games I can think of when I didn't, you actually were scum), and don't think this is a policy scumvote, I do feel like I'm no longer able to accurately assess the validity of my reads. On you, or any of the others.

For what it's worth though, I don't want to never play with you again. I have enjoyed games with you in the past, and I'm sure that I will again in the future.
This game in particular has just been very taxing, and having to play it in fucking MafTigers probably isn't helping with that.


This is probably my last post, so, despite my wavering confidence, here are my final reads, for the replacement to do with as they see fit.
Xemnas
Axel
Xaldin, Saix
Luxord, Marluxia, Roxas
Zexion, Demyx
Vexen, Xigbar

[V Lexaeus]

I feel like on some level you feel like you're entitled to me lying down and getting lynched because you scumread me and that's not at all true nor is that how this game works.
Lynching me is supposed to be impossible and I need to do what I do to keep things that way. I can be a lot nicer when you and others aren't scumreading me for OGI reasons.

"Last post" I said...

Anyway, no, I don't think I'm entitled to you getting lynched because I scumread you.

I do think I'm entitled to a defense beyond "I don't make mistakes as scum" though.


If you wish, I can talk more about it after the game, but I don't think continuing this conversation now has much merit.

[V Lexaeus]

Reading now.

Someone awesome hit me with the deets?

[V Lexaeus]

Oh and VOTE: Luxord while I catch up.

You know why. I am looking for the explanation to see if one was ever given:

[V Lexaeus]

Gotcha.

Larxene, if you were scum investigative immune, would you have claimed it?

This pings me.

[V Lexaeus]

VOTE: Luxord.
Larxene is obviously town.
Vexen's entrance makes me believe he is town, but we shall see.
Lexaeus and Xixbar I'll need more to make a firm judgment call on.

However, Luxord is just scum.

Please be Town. You townping me harder than an actual city.

[V Lexaeus]

Yeah Luxor and xigbar probably buddies.

[V Lexaeus]

Vote Count 2.11

Xigbar [4] - Saïx, Xaldin, Vexen, Lexaeus
Saïx [1] - Zexion
Demyx [3] - Roxas, Marluxia, Luxord
Zexion [1] - Axel
Roxas [1] - Demyx
Vexen [1] - Xigbar

Not Voting: Xemnas

Zexion and Xaldin have been prodded.

6 to lynch
Deadline: (expired on 2017-09-18 02:19:22).[/color]

Oooh predecessor was on Xig. Nice good to know.

This means Demyx is prob Town.

VOTE: Xigbar

Gonna trust the predecessor for now. Stopping reading til late tomorrow.

[V Lexaeus]

Oooh Xemnas is the third. How quaint?

Alignments aren't contingent on honest emotions. There is no alignment that is "more controlled". You can't say you realize that then contradict yourself in the very next sentence dude.

Guessing those other things mean a scum role PM.

[V Lexaeus]

I think part of the problem is that you are more or less betting the game on this flip.

I don't particularly like multiple possible outcomes with that.
Best case is he flips scum, you're town and we keep lynching scum and it's sunshine and roses/daisies/etc.
Frankly, I don't think this is beyond your scum play though, and I think it would be dishonest of me to pretend that I don't feel like that option is possible.
There's also the possibility that you're both town and you're completely destroying the gamestate by pushing this if you're wrong. We arguably lose the game if that's the case and we follow through here with what you want.

Take a step back from Vexen being obviously scum to you.
The case you've laid for him being scum makes a lot of sense, but it only resonates on a level that's relevant to you, right? Like, all of your points hinge on you being town and are centered around your experiences with him.
That's hard for people to digest.
I think you're going to struggle to rally people behind that in general and in a deadline situation of you vs Vexen I'm honestly feeling like you get lynched just because of where general sentiment is at.

Axel is a plausible consensus lynch.
If you think he's scum, it's probably the path of least resistance to a scumlynch at this point.

Lynchshopping is a federal crime in all countries indicative of scum and deserving of death.
Did you mean to post that in the scum PT?

[V Lexaeus]

You know why. I am looking for the explanation to see if one was ever given:

(I'm gonna be honest. I don't know why.)

You mean you don't acknowledge the PT?

[V Lexaeus]

Xemnas is confirmed town

How? /me hasn't gotten that far

[V Lexaeus]

Derp. Thanks.

Xemnas stop defending obvScum.

[V Lexaeus]

Or you're just bad

Nah. If you knew what Luxor did to me before night ended you'd be thinking like I do too.

[V Lexaeus]

Fair Game @Luxord?

[V Lexaeus]

Like, I get what you're referring to.
I don't get how it's scummy?
I also can't really explain why my predecessor chose you unless he mentioned why he was going to sometime during D1?

Oh you inherited a scumslot.

I can't find the reason why.

[V Lexaeus]

Vote: Marluxia

Would also gladly flashwagon Lexaeus

Lol yes pick on the player still reading excellent idea. /s

[V Lexaeus]

Let's just say I have two plans. One is to watch TV, specifically Rob and Big, and the other well... let's just say Town blocks are amazing this game and I like the one forming so my other plan is to stfu and let my townreads stomp on the scums.

[V Lexaeus]

I like big butts and I cannot lie your posterior seems fine.

Still reading.

[V Lexaeus]

It's a day activated ability.

Judging by your entrance, you?

Unfortunately I'm not someone who typically gets lynched when I'm town, so if you're hoping for easy pickings here, you're probably going to be disappointed.

P-Edit: How definitive.

If you neighborize anyone but me after not mentioning what fair game does you are scum.

Like seriously. I'd rather keep the neg util on me than any other player.

[V Lexaeus]

Also, Luxord: you are neighbourizing me tonight. I consulted with the mod and since you target at the end of the day rather than end of the night you will be able to target me on a pseudo-commute night.
Would like to be able to give thoughts before the inevitable strongman if we aren't lynching them today.

...Xig needs rope so fucking bad.

[V Lexaeus]

And you didn't double check earlier because....?

Like the post open states you will do X and I HAVE to do Y.

I would rather myself have the bad thing.

[V Lexaeus]

There's also that I don't understand why you wouldn't want me to target someone you think is scum instead of you.
Lol.

Because that is based on thought.

I know I am Town and I know <redacted> and I would rather have the bad shit on me.

I scumread you yes. I scumread Xig yes.

However those are reads.

[V Lexaeus]

Because I haven't really thought about my role at all since day start?
That also doesn't make any sense at all :/
why would you not want bad shit on two of your scumreads vs yourself?

P-Edit: Okay no it's mandatory.
If you really don't trust me I can just eat the bullet on the negative utility with whoever I partner with and have it serve as a night neighborhood otherwise.
I really don't care that much.

Or you can do as I freakin asked give me the neg utility and we hash out our shit. Or you can keep wiggling out from your leash. Xig's chainsaw defense of you was horrible at gamestart and I am seeing zilch redeeming you.

Like the neg utility on me is way better for Town and way better for everyone involved.

[V Lexaeus]

Great it isn't mandatory.

Why the hell would a predecessor activate it in secret and not tell anyone then? Like I don't see where your predecessor scumreads me to support it.

[V Lexaeus]

Lol.
Whatever floats your boat dude.
I'll switch to target you.

Perfect. Thank you.

[V Lexaeus]

Will be deadline voting Vexen.
He's more than welcome to give a last will and testament anytime in the next 12 hours.

P-Edit: No I'm saying it is mandatory. Awkward phrasing zzzzz.
Tbf, if it were me in previous Lux's shoes I would have 100% targeted my strongest scumread without telling anyone. If previous Lux wasn't scumreading Lex then I have no idea why he did what he did. From what I remember from my reread it seemed like he was pretty disengaged?

Or ya know you could vote Xig and then someone else give him that 12 hour countdown?

[V Lexaeus]

I think u and Vexen are terrible lynches.
I'd rather have marluxia, Roxas, Xaldin or Saix

So you or Saix are the third okay.

[V Lexaeus]

Gotcha.

Larxene, if you were scum investigative immune, would you have claimed it?

Starting here.

This post is ATROCIOUS.

This says "Hey if you were scum" >> meaning I know you aren't. >> Would you have claimed it?

Then at the end of day Xig's vote is on the person who they so strongly townread.

[V Lexaeus]

VOTE: Larxene

Strongest scumread as of now.

They fail. Like a roleblock. What else would it mean?

Investigative-immune, eh?
Sounds like a GF if ya ask me

Sounds like someone doesn't know what I'm claiming! If I was a Godfather a cop would get a town result on me~

And sure, if you want to say it in a totally confusing way. Immune to investigations, that's it. They just fail.

These both, to my mind, feel like weird reactions to being prodded about the investigative immune claim. I would expect that town would understand that they would be questioned about the investigative immunity.
Rather than be clear about things, she gets sort of defensive with the 'what else would it mean' and makes an odd comment about me saying it in a totally confusing way when immune isn't really a mafia term and ascetic is.
Even just the phrasing of 'I'm investigative immune, losers' is a little more aggressive than I would expect from such a claim from town and altogether I feel like they're defensive and overly aggressive in a scummy way.
Them not clarifying what investigative immune in their first post also feels somewhat off, and overall it felt like they were trying to push the game to just accept it and move on.

VOTE: Vexen
Let's see you actually do something, Vexi! <3

VOTE: Roxas

Both posts felt played up. Larxene is definitely not obvtown, Luxord is definitely not obvscum.

Larxene might not be obvi town but she is so far the most town player here. Dont get where the Luxord obvscum is coming from

What's the point of even making this distinction? Why am I the towniest here, anyway?
This is your only post worth looking at and it doesn't say much.

Lexaeus is probably town. Or super excited scum, but I'd rather just call him town.

This is really weird. Are you essentially saying that you townread them for being excited? Because that's not a towntell and that feels like a lazy reason to townread someone. The immediate waffling about the townread feels bad too.

Roxas votes are bleh, tbh. He's pretty town.
I was onboard with Luxord scum until I saw him copy his notes. I don't really care about the content but I don't see any scum there. The guy has an honest face~! I wanna see more once he gets a foothold.

She townreads 10 for the votes (which I did, too, with the caveat that I townread him before the notes) but doesn't engage intellectually with it at all and just says they don't care about the content, which is another super lazy read.

Actually I'll just elaborate. Vexen and Axel are the scummiest here right now, full stop. If Luxord's scum he doesn't know what the heck to do right out of the gate, and I'm extremely interested in what he has to say on his return. I'm not a very patient girl, either.

Again, coming up with a townread and then immediately backs off on that townread by saying that she's now interested in what he has to say upon his return.
Why are Vexen and Axel the scummiest here, anyway? You said that you could vote Axel after a quote (and I do agree that post is somewhat scummy) but you've said nothing about Vexen this game. So, why?

Then after a few posts one of which is the easiest as fuck softball question to you then the player who he said "if you're scum to" becomes the strongest read. Then at the end of the day "weren't really close"

Furthermore Xig states that it is a "weird" reaction. That is a copout if I ever heard one. Saying something is weird is empty and vacuous. Xig posts a lot of words sure but they mean nothing.

[V Lexaeus]

And a neg utility is SUPPOSED to just claim it and Game moves on like wtf?

[V Lexaeus]

I can't babysit this game indefinitely. I am 100% confident that Xaldin flips scum to the point that I'm fine offering to be lynched if they don't. They're just not town.
Nothing in their play is town motivated. The way they talk isn't town motivated. The way other people have maneuvered around trying to keep them alive isn't town motivated.
Unless there's some staunch disagreement with my townreads the only potential scum votes on them were either super short lived or made and kept by an absent slot.

Wagons don't just fucking fade out like this one has. Not with me spending the entire game sitting there. Not with him doing absolutely fucking nothing towny of note.
I'm never unvoting that slot as long as it's alive and if you managed to mentally circlejerk yourselves tomorrow into thinking I was shot to frame him then you deserve to lose.

Look at this too.

He fights strongly for Xaladin then offers to be it the next day.

Then just gloms onto a survival wagon on Vexen.

[V Lexaeus]

Seems kind of wrong to take that question at face value instead of as a hypothetical?
There's also a pretty big gap of time from start of day and end of day.

P-Edit: Again, it seems more like a hypothetical question so I don't understand your point.
Rest of what you're saying feels like you're reaching :/
If you really think Xig is scum, compile something substantive that isn't just your kneejerk reaction to a post, because it really doesn't mean anything to me.

And a neg utility is SUPPOSED to just claim it and Game moves on like wtf?

I don't understand what this means.

Nothing he's done today has had a town perspective behind it at all.

He has wanted my lynch to the exclusion of all else, including Zex and Axel, because he had an amazing scumcase against me

. Give me a second and I'll go quote it, but it's pretty clear he was lying out of his ass. Til that point.

It's unusual to want to lynch your most confident scumread?
There's no momentum for a Zex wagon and he's VLA. What would the point even be in trying to push for that?
And he's openly admitted multiple times that Axel is a weak read?

Simple.

Millers go "I am a miller" >> Game moves on.
Ascetic goes "I am ascetic" >> Game moves on.

That is what a neg utility is supposed to do.

Like how do you have enough experience to play in an alt game and NOT get this?

And nice adjective too. That is what mafia IS: Posting about reactions. You could literally boil anything I say to that and try to sweep it under the rug.

[V Lexaeus]

I'm just so stupid
it's not that I don't understand what that point has to do with Xig because you're throwing together points with no seriously thought out context
it's that I'm just a fucking dumbass who doesn't understand that negative utility is supposed to claim at the start of the game.
(:

And nice adjective too. That is what mafia IS: Posting about reactions. You could literally boil anything I say to that and try to sweep it under the rug.

Do you think that your points are going to be compelling to anyone that isn't you right now?
And that this is exclusively going to be a me problem?

Yes.
Me and my big ol backside agree that I think my points are compelling. Gonna wait and see what others think.

[V Lexaeus]

Consider me still voting Vexen in 12 hours at this point!
Is it bad that I more hope I'm right because it'll make you eat your words?
(:

I wouldn't worry about my eating habits if I were you. I could spend the night eating away in front of a TV but I am getting some exercise instead And I am not surprised you don't want to vote your buddy. Nothing will convince you. I am making the argument for others not myself and not for you. You're not gonna just go "I am scum. Lexaeus is right." Except that is what you are doing today.

[V Lexaeus]

How bad are you going to feel if Xig and I are both town?

I won't because if you are your play/predecessors play was shit.

As Town you don't neg utility someone in secret.
As Town you don't say "If you were scum would you" << Big fucking scumtell unless used in the mid to late game where there is actually a case/mechanics discussion with it. Instead Xig forces the discussion with that.

As Town you just don't make the posts y'all are making. And if you do I have sads.

[V Lexaeus]

@Vexen you claimed doc?? Where?

[V Lexaeus]

1736 stands as my last will.

Lux will most certainly vote me as soon as he feels he can get away with it, because to him his scumbuddy needs to get through this 1v1 to survive til tomorrow, and I'm pretty much the only one who would call him out on it. It's okay though, because you guys can lynch Xig and then him and be in a pretty damn good position.

I do think Zex is a likely third, but that read is orders of magnitude weaker than my others.

Please answer my question Vexen it is VERY important.

Doc is too short a word to search.

[V Lexaeus]

@Vexen you claimed doc?? Where?

Not outright doc, but it's functionally my role. Link momentarily, but I roleblock everyone who targets my target, including NK's. If I target them twice I cop them.

Why do you think Town would have two roleblockers?

[V Lexaeus]

Oh rolestopper okay huge difference.

[V Lexaeus]

That is interesting.

Is there a list of claims somewhere?

[V Lexaeus]

Lol.
"Huge difference."
The quote is literally the definition of rolestopper.
Ahahahaha

Yes it is now if you don't mind I am trying to figure out something fishy if you don't mind I am trying to scumhunt here and actually giving credence to what you're saying could you not be difficult about it?

[V Lexaeus]

Xemnas (Replaced once)- IC
Xigbar- Informed Infinite Commuter/ Most of the power remaining in town role that he refused to elaborate on and tacked on 6 pages later.
Xaldin- Tracker w/ 4 targets N1, 3 N2, etc.
Vexen (Replaced once)- ^
Lexaeus- Protective of somekind with an additional bit of role
Zexion- Unclaimed
Saïx- Bomb/1 shot vig, either but not both
Axel- Stopped N1 made everyone hated D2, proven
Demyx (Replaced once)- Softed investigative, specifically tracker, which is worth considering
Luxord (Replaced two times)- Neighborhood that makes people hated
Marluxia- unclaimed
Larxene (Replaced once)- Flipped investigative immune Roleblocker
Roxas- Proven roleblocker, claimed infinite shot BP.

There, from memory. Not gonna find links to individual claims, but Demy's soft was immediately after Xal's claim. He asked if him being a tracker would change my desire to get results before lynching Xal, and I berated him over the soft.

Where was the hood openly stated hated?

I said neg util but not hated?

[V Lexaeus]

@Saix How would a doctor interact with your Bomb? The wiki says to ask the mod.

@Vexen -- Hypothetically, assume day ended this second: Would you be on the IC or another player with all the protectives that are claimed?

[V Lexaeus]

Don't say who obviously if someone else.

[V Lexaeus]

Be back in 30 but with all the claims mass claim is hella in order at this point.

[V Lexaeus]

@Saix How would a doctor interact with your Bomb? The wiki says to ask the mod.

@Vexen -- Hypothetically, assume day ended this second: Would you be on the IC or another player with all the protectives that are claimed?

His bomb is only for NKs.

I'd target one of you, Xem, Rox. I really want a cop result on Rox, because he's perfectly emulating or is one of the people who I believe can completely outplay me as scum. I would be using an rng pattern to choose between the three to disincentivise scum killing either you or Xem.

Correct. The wiki states to ask the mod what happens if a Bomb is killed doc heals Bomb. I am asking Saix about that scenario.

[V Lexaeus]

I asked a fruit vendor or other relatively useless targetting role to confirm Saix not killing power when targeted, btw, because he clarified to bomb from PGO, and I cannot see town PGO playing the way he has.

I can see a Town Bomb claiming PGO. It discentivizes town PR deaths and draws the NK as PGO is faked by PRs. It is a site meta.

[V Lexaeus]

Yeah, but claiming PGO then switching to Bomb is most certainly something scum PGO would do, and I'm not discounting that option given the amount of power town has.

If a fruit vendor dies tonight, Saix is confscum.

No Saix is confTown.

Reasons.

You'll see when I die.

[V Lexaeus]

If someone targets me at night, they will be killed automatically.
I can kill someone at night, but if I choose to do so, I will forfeit the first ability.
So, in effect, I have only one functional power but been given the option to choose out of the two.

Lynching is the only likely way I will be shown the door, unless the scum can afford to reduce by 1. I can go to the endgame if people believe me.

*If someone targets me at night for a nightkill

Would you stop spamming the thread already?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bomb

Last sentence Variations is what I want to know.

[V Lexaeus]

If a fruit vendor dies tonight, Saix is confscum. If he's conftown, that won't happen. If there is a fruit vendor and they DON'T die, that's good evidence for Saix town that doesn't rely on your role or you being town.

It's just correct play. If you are a fruit vendor or similarly useless night action, target Saix.

A) There is no claimed fruit vendor.
B) I am telling you Saix is confirmed Town.
C) This setup looks to be designed in such a way that confirming yourself via role is useless.

[V Lexaeus]

And as I say this I am telling you I am not targeting him.

I am targeting someone else instead so if scum kill Saix they don't kill me too.

[V Lexaeus]

If this is a hider claim or a bodyguard claim, say so immediately.

Seriously, if you have either of these roles, claim now.

Lol why? I am protective. I also crumbed doc too. You gonna say I should claim doc too?

[V Lexaeus]

Like why does it matter which protective I am to you?

[V Lexaeus]

Fuck. Lex might be scum, and I'm not sure what that means.

Lololol Top townread to might be scum because I won't tell you which protective I am when we are lynching you or Xig? Gonna need to explain that.

[V Lexaeus]

Yes I am a bodyguard doctor Jailkeeper elite bodyguard followed by nuclear catastrophe except all but me. /partially sarcastic

And I am confident as both alignments.

I also agree that Lex should be pushing me more or doing something.

@Saix: I still want the answer to what happens if you get doc'd.

[V Lexaeus]

Yes I am a bodyguard doctor Jailkeeper elite bodyguard followed by nuclear catastrophe except all but me. /partially sarcastic

And I am confident as both alignments.

I also agree that Lux should be pushing me more or doing something.

@Saix: I still want the answer to what happens if you get doc'd.

Ebwop fuck autocorrect

[V Lexaeus]

I thought Xig was 100% confirmed scum because of the strongman thing?

I mean from where I'm standing this reads like a scumslip from Vexen.

By the same token Xig is confirmed scum for doing the same Lux?

Why pick on Vex and not Xig?

[V Lexaeus]

Xig was 100% confirmed scum based on the majority of his play, not the strongman bit. In fact, that's not even a big part of it, but sure.

If I'm WRONG, though, which apparently I might be, I need to figure it out now. I fully understand I'm shooting myself in the foot here. I fully understand this is basically signing my own death warrant. But if there isn't a reason behind that, then Lex is scum and I've been preaching a course of action to hand him the win. And I need to resolve that before I lay down and die.

I'm also not sure why I'm telling you this, cause it doesn't matter at all to you. But maybe, someone else in this town will read this and understand what I'm saying.

Yeah...I think there will be 0 problems with this.

If I get lynched that'd be a okay. Better to lose me than say conf Town Bomb.

Lynching me only confTown's Saix.

[V Lexaeus]

Sorry that I'm better at reading you than you are at reading me?

This is not something town says to their scumreads. Ever.

Lynch lux. I'm honestly not sure which of Lex and Xig it is at this point, but it's one of the two.

And not both because...?

[V Lexaeus]

I can't babysit this game indefinitely. I am 100% confident that Xaldin flips scum to the point that I'm fine offering to be lynched if they don't. They're just not town.
Nothing in their play is town motivated. The way they talk isn't town motivated. The way other people have maneuvered around trying to keep them alive isn't town motivated.
Unless there's some staunch disagreement with my townreads the only potential scum votes on them were either super short lived or made and kept by an absent slot.

Wagons don't just fucking fade out like this one has. Not with me spending the entire game sitting there. Not with him doing absolutely fucking nothing towny of note.
I'm never unvoting that slot as long as it's alive and if you managed to mentally circlejerk yourselves tomorrow into thinking I was shot to frame him then you deserve to lose.

Same thing. Xig says Xaldin is 100% scum yet doesn't push them.
You point out Vex says Xig is 100% scum yet points out a Town world.

Please explain the difference.

[V Lexaeus]

Lex, I'm still waiting on an explanation.

I don't see anything that requires one. *shrug* Consider this my idgaf.

[V Lexaeus]

Because Xigbar says that as town and then changes his mind? It's clearly an opinion of Xaldin's play, not a mechanic read.
And Vexen dances around the fact that he said Xigbar is MECHANICALLY 100% scum by his rolePM and is trying to back off it to pursue other options.

Can't have it both ways IMHO.

Can't have one player be hyperbole allowed and not another.

[V Lexaeus]

I swear you're not even trying to understand what I'm saying.
Fucking whatever.
I'm out for a few hours.
Will be here to hammer whatever including myself.

P-Edit: Reread and you're more or less right. I recalled it being more about the strongman wording part of it than anything else.

I am trying but you're just so damn scummy you bleed scum.

And lol with the death threats Vexen as I said idgaf.

[V Lexaeus]

So your opinion is that it would be better as town to just get lynched in order to confirm Saix than even try to argue a reason why TownYou does that?

Yes.

Because there is nothing scummy in what I have done. And your post is mind boggling.

I have not contradicted myself and so nothing to explain. Hence idgaf.

[V Lexaeus]

Why specifically that fakeclaim?

Why "Oh shit, I've got this role that breaks the game" from one of the Lex's and "My role is likely to get me killed for targeting someone likely to get NKd" from the other?

The first reads genuine as fuck to me. That was the biggest reason for my townread. That post, by itself, convinced me that despite flaws in logic and balance issues, Lex was town. But if he was a bodyguard, why not come forward when a big part of the 1v1 between me and Xig is based on the overwhelming protective role presence? Why not as a bodyguard mention that bodyguard and strongman shouldn't be in the same deck of mafia cards, let alone the same game?

Alternatively, from new Lex perspective, I can definitely see a reason to switch to a weaker claim. He looked at my list of claimed roles. He could easily have realized a doc claim wouldn't have lasted a single dayphase after my and Xig's flip. A bodyguard might.

Clear scum motivation. No clear town motivation. So why isn't it scum?

Because I have been in multiple games with a strongman and a bg before.
This setup is clearly designed on guilties and what not from the investigation immune claim.

TTH/Heartless hate site meta of play by role. So pretty much I would rather solve the game. And yes I maintain the first Lex's can break the game role. I never discounted it.

When I die and how will reveal a lot.

[V Lexaeus]

Softing two vastly different roles is not self contradiction?

Like, I get the replacement, but that's still not a discrepancy I buy.

VOTE: Lexaus

Whatever. Buy what you want. As I said when and how I die is beneficial.

It confirms Saix as town for starters.

Me wanting the hated is also a clue.

[V Lexaeus]

There is no if Lex makes it to end game.

Which is why I am being clear "Hey Lux and Xig are scum".

[V Lexaeus]

Threatening me with death when I want to die is like threatening to give someone a million USD with no strings attached.

Like I can't stop laughing.

[V Lexaeus]

@Saix: What would a doctor do to your Bomb stuff? The wiki says to ask the mod.

[V Lexaeus]

Yeah I am aware just there were a lot of pages and I didn't want Saix to miss it.

Yes I am a bodyguard doctor Jailkeeper elite bodyguard followed by nuclear catastrophe except all but me. /partially sarcastic

And I am confident as both alignments.

I also agree that Lex should be pushing me more or doing something.

@Saix: I still want the answer to what happens if you get doc'd.

Vexen did you see this?

UNVOTE: for now. I don't want this discussion cut off by a hammer.

IC/Conf Town should always be the hammer anyway.

[V Lexaeus]

I had a feeling. Haven't played with you, but had a feeling.

Okay. Not sure how you'd have a feeling based on that but whatever. *blush*

[V Lexaeus]

Would really rather not as Lux/Xig are like huge scumreads for me.

[V Lexaeus]

Apropos of nothing given the current vc:

I'd rather help drive a lynch I want than hammer one i don't want.

From a VCA standpoint, which I am highly skeptical of as usually done on MS, conftown not voting all is probably optimal provided a lynch goes through.

Have you seen me do VCA?

I hate how most people do it too.

I use a mix of Mastina's guide and my own stuff.

[V Lexaeus]

Sorry Lex but like,
it's going to be so hard to not just say that your track record with reading people isn't worth trusting.
Lol.

You mean like ET? Where I got vigged for being right?

Newbie game that finished where I had scum on page one?

Yes I have the horrible game that will try to be erased from memory.

But I have in memory which I did good at.

Like please don't throw the baby out with the bath water because I altslipped people.

[V Lexaeus]

I honestly don't think there's much sense in trying to reason with Lex.
As terrible as that sounds.
Xig and I are permanently going to be their scumreads for the rest of the game.
Regardless of what we say or do.
:/

Well at least I know luxord is town.

(I seriously hope you're not implying that this was in question before now)

P-Edit: I have more than one terrible game in mind thank you very much.

Yes and I looked forward to an alter game because I could come in and just be helpful without the stigma. And I was doing really good too til I fucked it up. I do have shitty games. I won't argue I don't. But I get better by playing more and talking. Look at the Open that just ended. I came around when evidence presents itself.

Like I don't know who you are and I don't care but if you are Town and you do townread me (of which I doubt the first) town gets no where with being attacked. Keep it to this game.

[V Lexaeus]

Lexaeus if Vex flips scum what does that do to your reads?

I would review overnight.

I don't think I could give an adequate answer off the top of my head.

[V Lexaeus]

Do you want Saix to answer your question before the game day ends?

I want to be sure I have a good critical path.

Yes I would. However if we are in danger of no lynching hammer without it please

[V Lexaeus]

I was already townreading you but that makes me want to write your slot off as potential scum.

Explain

I can't do it justice without spending a long time going into their meta and the quality of their reads in a way that would be inappropriate in the context of this game.

I couldn't tell if it was an offhand joke comment or if you're serious. Sounds like you're serious.

Unfortunately they probably are serious.

[V Lexaeus]

Unfortunately? I thought you are scum reading Luxord, too?

I am. It is more unfortunate that I cannot shake the stigma that I have and that Luxord can smear me.

Gotta go will try to be back at deadline.

[V Lexaeus]

Whoa what happened? Thread exploded. How much time is left on deadline and I just got free to check this?

[V Lexaeus]

Can we like not spam here? I'm trying to catch up and this spam is making it hard as there's two hours left til deadline on the last VC from the mod?

[V Lexaeus]

Can we like not spam here? I'm trying to catch up and this spam is making it hard as there's two hours left til deadline on the last VC from the mod?

We have a guilty on Vexen, vote him.

How and where and who be specific?

[V Lexaeus]

23 minutes what's the latest VC?

Been helping a friend move

[V Lexaeus]

Shit fuck moving I was AFK.

[V Lexaeus]

23 minutes what's the latest VC?

Been helping a friend move

Can we like not spam here? I'm trying to catch up and this spam is making it hard as there's two hours left til deadline on the last VC from the mod?

Whoa what happened? Thread exploded. How much time is left on deadline and I just got free to check this?

lol I did try. Try lifting heavy boxes and reading. The boxes won.