Open 698: Stack the Deck (GAME OVER)

[UnaBombaH]

Aside from Realeo the wagon on Ice Guy is filled with non-townie players. So I'm going to stick to my guns and stay on Una. Obviously they're trying to divert away from Una.

This is one post people should 100% return to if I'm lynched today.
Read this with the context that I am Town, and IceGuy is likely scum, and you find one partner here who will backpedal later.

This post is nothing but preparing a wagon on Mulch/Luca and posing as town while trying to pocket Realeo (who is also going to be NK'd at this pace btw).

Mark this post down - my initial townlean on CommKnight was because he was townreading Realeo, and it felt like he was judging people with reasoning, not just jumping on to conclusions.

Mulch is probably the only one here who has played with me more than once, and has done some serious interacting in another game, so I'm not surprised my D1 play has worked so well.

[Luca Blight]

I know right? It's almost like I'm not willing to wagon onto someone that most of my neutral/scumleans are voting. It's like damn man. I better back up and reconsider how I read everyone else voting an easy target.

Ice Guy is an easy lynch, almost too damn easy. There's been resistance against Una though and I suspect we'd get more from lynching Una than Ice.

Not sure how IceGuy is any 'easier' a target than Una to be honest?

There's also been resistance to an IceGuy lynch - I've been pushing it most of the day and have had little support until recently.

[Realeo]

It really depends on the definition of resistance, to be honest.

When I made 599, my parameter of lack of resistance was lack of polarization.

[Luca Blight]

Speaking of this.

Mulch, what do you rate the chances of Una-Ice being TvT?

I think the rate is quite high, if your definition of TvT is either {Town v Town} or {Town v Traitor} Given the lack of resistance of the fos between these two people, if I have to assume at least one of them is anti-town, I think it's more likely to be traitor than mafia (or I would be expecting more people defending Una or IceGuy than just me) so my compromise vote is basically me asking my self "Which one is more likely to be a traitor?"

Surely the presence of another wagon itself could be a sign of 'resistance'? Obviously scum are less likely to directly defend their partner, which could link them together upon the flip.

And, as has been mentioned, mafia also had the option of recruiting the Traitor, so the scenario you mentioned seems unlikely.

[Realeo]

Surely the presence of another wagon itself could be a sign of 'resistance'?

When most of the people are lynching one because "one is scummier than other" instead of "I lynch him because I townread the other," not really.

[Luca Blight]

Surely the presence of another wagon itself could be a sign of 'resistance'?

When most of the people are lynching one because "one is scummier than other" instead of "I lynch him because I townread the other," not really.

You would have to be naive to assume Scum will always townread their teammates.

[Realeo]

Saying "always" is an overkill.

But in this context, I think scum is more likely to townread or at lease defend their team mate.

1. If there is a traitor, then traitor will try to townread their mate to telegraph the message "It's me! I am the traitor!"
2. If there is a day talk, since this game is low-activity, assuming neither of the mafia is hard lurkers, this game is easy to be dominated.
3. If there are 3 scums, there is a tendency to do so.

[Luca Blight]

I just think, if there was a serious risk of their teammate being lynched (which is currently the case with both Una and IceGuy) why would they put themselves at risk by directly defending their partner when they could simply push the opposing wagon?

[UnaBombaH]

@Unabombah

Questions and comments are in purple.

I'll try format this on a tablet: my answers are in white..

Townread:

Alchemist

for his general posting and interactions, absolutely no scumvibes there for me.

Which interactions and why?

For example how he approached my slot.
It felt like he was genuinely trying to sort me.
Not straight up tunneling, but not just poking for easy town cred either.
I feel like Alchemist is trying to sort us all, and gamesolve to his best ability.

Realeo

for his general tone: feels very relaxed yet confident. Haven't noticed any hesitance when commenting on anything! Feels genuine. "Defending" IceGuy based on meta is either confident Town, or very brave scum.

Curious where you've seen confidence in particular from realeo?

Just like Alchemist, it's his overall presence.
I trust my reads the most when I get the feeling the player could say "anything" and still come across genuine. Maybe not scum claim, but almost anything.
I rarely Townread people based on joking and shitposting, but Realeo somehow managed to do that.
If he is scum, he is very talented.

grapes/CommKnight

mainly on gut. Really liked grapes early walls when re-read, and CommKnights "compilation-post" and readslist.

Sidenote: red flag that he's got two slots together here.

Sidenote: you two I was honestly the most undecided on, amongst the players who actually had content.
My read on CommKnight tipped downwards today.

Zero factors:

Assemblerotws, ironstove

(I'm not one to advocate lynching lurkers, but this one is just awful.. )

Which one? You've got two names here.

The one that comment is attached on.
I don't think lurking is NAI, but Doge should never reach LyLo with these posts..

Scumlean:

Chip Butty/GameNBurger/Duckworth

mainly for gut-feels. They are all new players to me, and I'm currently thinking there's at least one scum here.
CommKnight townleaning GameNBurger based on meta sort of worries me.

Why is this a thing that looks like you're weighing for your gameburger read?

I meant that it worried me, that I townleaned CommKnight, and rather strongly scumleaned GameNBurger.
I was also weighing in whether GnB would have been outright scum for me, if CommKnight hadn't "cleared" him based on meta.
Taking into consideration how my feelings on CommKnight shifted today, this actually pops up to me too.
Good of you to point it out.

Duckworth has posted very little, and is closest to being "relegated" just by that alone.

What?

Relegated to "Scum". I feel like IceGuy is the "vocal scum" of their respective team, so someone like Duck could be the "lurky scum".
Duck outright voting IceGuy on his "caught up reading"-post supports this. It felt like distancing.

Scum:

IceGuy

for reasons multiple. Don't like any of his posts, and even though I don't dislike him for voting me, I dislike the reasoning.

UnaBombaH at least posts but I don't like what I'm seeing.

Since there is a wagon on him by a player I consider towny, I'm going to vote him VOTE: UnaBombaH, and hereby express my intention to vote any of the other three if a wagon will form.

How? What?
So he votes for any of the lurkers, but votes for the one who posts..?
I know, he says he dislikes what I post too (and I don't blame him for that), but why bring up the inactivity at all then?
Just so that he can say that he is willing to vote all the other lurkers too? (= not willing to commit).

How is saying that he'd be willing to vote in the lurker-pool not committing to voting in the lurker pool?

Not fully committing to a strong scumread.

That is what I meant: he says he is willing to vote any of the lurkers, so he has an easy escape if anyone scumreads him, for voting me.
He has later tried to correct this by bringing more arguments to his case, but the problem is that he voted me first with a "for now"-mentality, and has since tried his harderst to find reasons to keep his vote on me.
He didn't organically arrive at scumreading me: he decided to scumread me the most out of "all the lurkers", and then has just grasped at reasons to stay on me.

Do you think it would have been scummier if he had voted someone else in the pool?

I'm not sure if this is a loaded question or not.
I don't think his vote on ANYONE, even me, was/would've been scummy.
It was HOW and WHY he voted + how he has stuck to his vote, which pings me as scum.

[UnaBombaH]

Some stream of consciousness before I'm off for the night.

I still 100% think IceGuy should be the lynch today.
I find it weird that I felt a sensation of "A-HA" when I was answering on the wall above: this is regarding CommKnight and GnB slots.
I do not currently scumread Alchemist or ChipButty, I'm actually erring on "promoting" Chip to a strongish townread.
I currently only scumread/-lean Ice Guy, GameNBurger and CommKight, but they are all wagoning me. I don't want to accept that three scum would gather on me D1, especially with the risk of IceGuy flipping today, and flipping scum.
Mulches reads on me have been accurate, and he is the only one who has played with me before. Assemble hasn't commented much, but he has been on same games with me - don't know how well he can sort me.
Realeo unvoting IceGuy COULD be susp. actually: if he is scum with IceGuy, he might want to keep an appearence of joining the IceGuy-wagon, but wouldn't want to go all the way to a lynch?
Dislike the idea, but it's possible.
Same with Duck: dislike his straight away vote.

[Realeo]

I just think, if there was a serious risk of their teammate being lynched (which is currently the case with both Una and IceGuy) why would they put themselves at risk by directly defending their partner when they could simply push the opposing wagon?

Because if your partner lynch goes through and you push the opposing wagon, you seems bad?

[Realeo]

Realeo unvoting IceGuy COULD be susp. actually: if he is scum with IceGuy, he might want to keep an appearence of joining the IceGuy-wagon, but wouldn't want to go all the way to a lynch?
Dislike the idea, but it's possible.
Same with Duck: dislike his straight away vote

You couldn't dislike both my unvote and his vote. That is contradiction.

[UnaBombaH]

Realeo unvoting IceGuy COULD be susp. actually: if he is scum with IceGuy, he might want to keep an appearence of joining the IceGuy-wagon, but wouldn't want to go all the way to a lynch?
Dislike the idea, but it's possible.
Same with Duck: dislike his straight away vote

You couldn't dislike both my unvote and his vote. That is contradiction.

No, the motives could be different.
He would be distancing from IceGuy by joining - you would avoid lynching your buddy by jumping off.
Obviously the two things ARE mutually exclusive, but I'm not making a contradiction.

[IceGuy]

Not fully committing to a strong scumread.

That is what I meant: he says he is willing to vote any of the lurkers, so he has an easy escape if anyone scumreads him, for voting me.

Other people (such as Luca) have done the same thing and you sort them firmly into the "town" category. Why am I scum for it, and Luca is town for the same thing?

He has later tried to correct this by bringing more arguments to his case, but the problem is that he voted me first with a "for now"-mentality, and has since tried his harderst to find reasons to keep his vote on me.
He didn't organically arrive at scumreading me: he decided to scumread me the most out of "all the lurkers", and then has just grasped at reasons to stay on me.

No, the reason is that you produced more and more reasons you're scum.

I'm not sure if this is a loaded question or not.
I don't think his vote on ANYONE, even me, was/would've been scummy.
It was HOW and WHY he voted + how he has stuck to his vote, which pings me as scum.

So first you call me scum for willing to vote several people, and now you're calling me scum for sticking with my vote on you. It looks like it's you who is finding more arguments.

[UnaBombaH]

Other people (such as Luca) have done the same thing and you sort them firmly into the "town" category. Why am I scum for it, and Luca is town for the same thing?

Because the basis of his original vote on you wasn't based on lurkyness.

[UnaBombaH]

No, the reason is that you produced more and more reasons you're scum.

Such as?

You haven't cased my "more and more" yet.
You waved it off earlier by saying that "you have already covered it".
Well you haven't.

If it's still the same reason of me playing a scummier start of D1, have you just discredited/bypassed all my later posts?
Or is it the fact that you know that if I'm not lynched today, it is likely you?

[UnaBombaH]

So first you call me scum for willing to vote several people, and now you're calling me scum for sticking with my vote on you. It looks like it's you who is finding more arguments.

Because circumstances matter not?

I don't think you have reconsidered your read on me once.
And THAT reeks of scum to me too - you are afraid to let go of "scumreading" or scumreading me.
Which is it?

[IceGuy]

Other people (such as Luca) have done the same thing and you sort them firmly into the "town" category. Why am I scum for it, and Luca is town for the same thing?

Because the basis of his original vote on you wasn't based on lurkyness.

My vote on you was only partly based on lurkiness: The reason why I voted you out of all the lurkers was the little you posted was scummy.

Such as?

You haven't cased my "more and more" yet.
You waved it off earlier by saying that "you have already covered it".
Well you haven't.

If it's still the same reason of me playing a scummier start of D1, have you just discredited/bypassed all my later posts?

I have, in #405, and just now for what you posted recently.

Or is it the fact that you know that if I'm not lynched today, it is likely you?

Obviously, I'm trying to prevent a lynch on me. I know I'm town; I don't know you are. That you are also scummy is a bonus.

Because circumstances matter not?

I don't think you have reconsidered your read on me once.
And THAT reeks of scum to me too - you are afraid to let go of "scumreading" or scumreading me.
Which is it?

Why should I reconsider a scumread if you continue being scummy?

[Chip Butty]

Aside from Realeo the wagon on Ice Guy is filled with non-townie players. So I'm going to stick to my guns and stay on Una. Obviously they're trying to divert away from Una.

You've been saying all game you think i am scummy. I'm on UnaH...

[Chip Butty]

Speaking of this.

Mulch, what do you rate the chances of Una-Ice being TvT?

I think it's more likely to be traitor than mafia (or I would be expecting more people defending Una or IceGuy than just me) so my compromise vote is basically me asking my self "Which one is more likely to be a traitor?"

Only it is not just you defending either of them. Mulch has actively called for voting ice over unam And since two wagons have formed, voting for one could be seen as a defence of the other.

But when i said TvT i think it was quite clear i meant town v town yet you made this all about a traitor. Mulch saw right away i meant town v town and i think that was the natural interpretation.

This is the second curious post you've made concerning traitors...

[Chip Butty]

VOTE: CommKnight
This guy was one of the people who sank me hard last time we played.

Are you going to crumb for your traitor?

This went over my head earlier. I'm sure you've played enough mafia to know how a mafia traitor role works. And it is in the OP that they know who the goons are.

What's the dealeo, Realeo?

Here is the other one. No response from you yet.

[Chip Butty]

The traitor knows who the goons are, as someone pointed out. They don't need to crumb. It is the traitor, if not recruited, who needs to crumb. But I'm sure Realio knows this...

[grapes]

I'm here; didn't realize how close deadline was like that was the fastest two weeks ever.

Lemme grab some bagels quick then I'll get up to speed.

[grapes]

VOTE: IceGuy

I prefer unabombah.

Then why did you vote iceguy..?

[grapes]

Didn't mind una's response to me but I wanna follow up with this a touch.

I meant that it worried me, that I townleaned CommKnight, and rather strongly scumleaned GameNBurger.
I was also weighing in whether GnB would have been outright scum for me, if CommKnight hadn't "cleared" him based on meta.
Taking into consideration how my feelings on CommKnight shifted today, this actually pops up to me too.
Good of you to point it out.

Was there anything else besides the townread? Because i wasn't so much pointing anything out as I was alarmed at how the only thing you had to say about gamenburger was something about another slot's read on them when they were apparently a strong scumlean.