Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[Gamma Emerald]

Hello everyone. Hope we can work well this game.
Robbnva it's nice to see you, haven't played with you since mini 1831, where you played as JFSF.
Of course, can't forget to mention mah boi Grendel, how've you been doing?
I noticed TChill claimed vig but not his kill, I see these possibilities for TChill's position at first glance:
>scum
>town who targeted the jailkeeper's target
>some odd and probably stupid scenario
As for scumreads, didn't like PS early, think Korts might be scum from more recent things, and that's about it.
Will work on in-depth coverage of the game soonish.

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 1 thoughts:
Persephone's entry feels forced, like they tried to make a big point but fell flat. Robbnva is probably town by reaction; he tries to parse it logically.
Page 2:
HEM seems town at a glance, I noted he went from "I'm gonna observe" to interacting, which feels like town who wanted to try something but got bored.
Massive and TChill switching off PS for Robb feels rather scummy to me
Page 3:
Korts' monkey vote is pretty bad imo, tbh he doesn't seem to be actually scumhunting, just poking at easy targets
PS is feeling a little better, but the vote switches off of them make me wary.

Reads based on content thus far:
Town: Monkey, Robbnva
Scum: Korts
Leanscum: TChill, massive
Nullscum: PS

PEdit: that's kinda cool. BTW I think your advice about sticking to less games so I could apply myself is pretty good, I'm in a few games but I am mostly just playing around one game per site I play on. Only one that defies this is Mafia Universe and even then I'm in very few there due to game speed being faster. I thought it was going to be horrible but it's not too bad. Actually managed to mechanically break a game!

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 4 thoughts:
nancy seems like town starting out, and btw I think this is going to be my first time having to sort nancy by herself since the last time she was in a hydra (GiF's UPick).
Thinking if Korts is scum maybe TChill wouldn't be and vice versa. Might be wrong but the interactions here feel too pushy to be SvS right now.
Also TChill's explanation of his vote switch is okay but feels kinda hollow for some reason.

@TChill you're reason for not agreeing with the way the PS wagon was built was that you felt Robb built it to try to get towncred right?

Page 5:
Kabooseslot (believe this is Grendel) gets townpoints for their analysis of the PS wagon switch situation, the argument feels on point and I agree a fair amount.
PS' posting about how town is hard feels like it is genuine, based on how they talk about being read as scum being more of a badge of honor than being calling incompetent. Also lol "no squidding idea" can I get a woomy?
Upon further appraisal all the early things I had issues with TChill, massive, and PS about seem to be explained by this page. So PS walks away with a solid townread, TChill gets a variable weak townread, and massive is around null.

Reads at this point:
Town: PS (Eddie), Robbnva, monkey
Leantown: Kaboose (Grendel), nancy
Nulltown: TChill
Scum: Korts

Also I like this format because I can make jokes while not expanding my postcount with each one. I hope I can stick with it.
Probably my last post for the night.
Null: massive

[Gamma Emerald]

UNVOTE: humaneatingmonkey
I should take care of this now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 6 thoughts:
TChill's look over Ginngie's ISO makes me curious.

Ginngie, why did you say it was dumb to scumread Korts?

massive is feeling pretty nice on this page.
Page 7:
Ginngie feels a bit sketchy with how he's explaining his post about people scumreading Korts being stupid. My issue is that it implies Korts did something worth townreading, but Ginngie seems to not actually be showing that.
Assemble's reads feel kinda crap too.
Page 8:
Assemble's Robb reasoning is alright but why would he just gloss over that?
TChill's erraticness doesn't feel like it's scummy to me.
massive was looking kinda poor on the page but closer analysis shows that I was reading his posts wrong. His posts are actually pretty good.
Page 9:
Ari's reaction to the vote on him is SHITE and I'm happy everyone else gets this.
And not much else.
Page 10:
Korts shows his age by not knowing Godfather is blacklisted in Normals
Eddie is okay so far

Reads at this point:
Town: Eddie, Robbnva, monkey
Leantown: Kaboose (Grendel), nancy
Nulltown: TChill, massive
Nullscum: Assembler
Leanscum: Aristophanes, Ginngie
Scum: Korts

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 11 Thoughts:
Ginngie's pushes here feel horrendous
I think TChill's suggestion to everyone else to look at low content people pushing him was made assuming he'd be lynched
And also the setup for one of my personal favorite tells (regardless of success rate) has appeared so that's fun
Page 12:
Eddie feels pretty good now that he's trying, really wish Robb could drop the tunnel.
Page 13:

@Korts: your case on TChill feels a bit like trying to come up with scum reasoning for every post, which feels forced. What was the intention here?

Still not a lot on the read change front.

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh My Korts scumread has been weakening, I've just failed to document it
Ginngie, though he's been sitting around leanscum, feels worse at this point

[Gamma Emerald]

That was made before that post and I was doing other things between when I wrote it and when I posted it fyi
Also to try and improve my play I'm going to not talk about what I think of that post yet. I have the issue of getting sidetracked in catch-up phases by responding to current things, so I want to curb that here since I'm working on my incessant posting too.

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 14 thoughts:
Not much actually unless you want me to talk about my predecessor which is the most noteworthy thing. Guess I am still liking Teech, his scumreads are aligning fairly well with mine minus Korts which I'm kinda curious about tbh

@Chilly why were you townreading Korts?

Page 15:
Ginngie at it again with calling Korts obvtown with no reasoning provided.
Page 16:
Robb's "town doesn't shitpost" logic is so asinine but it's not scummy.
Also I find it ironic that one of the votecounts mentioned the prevalence of OMGUS reads in Civ when it's fairly common here too.
REALLY curious about Grendel being scum in Ginngie's opinion.

@Ginngie what's up here?

Page 17:
Vecna's initial post feels alright. Reads look solidly constructed.
Tryhardmonkey is looks mighty fine to me.
Page 18:
Vecna's triangle reads looks fairly good. Also lol he had a 4chan Triforce moment

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 19 thoughts:
TChill had what is probably some of his scummiest posting in this game here. So I might bump him down a level.
Can people say why they've been scumreading Grendel? I don't see it. He hasn't been the paragon of towniness but his slot has been giving me town vibes between both of them.
Page 20:
TChill claim is very fast. Anyone got something to say about this? I'd say it's town who knee-jerk claimed. Also I wonder who he wanted to shoot n1 seeing as he said he had decided here.
Korts' read list is mostly okay but the Robb/Eddie reads give me the feeling he wants to keep that option open for later.
Reads update since I haven't had one of these in a while:
Town: Eddie, Robb, monkey, TChill
Leantown: Grendel, Vecna (some good moments but not enough to cement it)
Nultown: nancy, massive
Nullscum: Assembler
Scum: Ginngie, Korts (have not been feeling good about Korts recently)

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 21 thoughts:
Vecna and Ginngie's interactions push them further into the read categories they are already in. And that's literally the whole page.
Page 22:
Same as before, but Korts steps into the fray looking like he's buttering up TChill (lol the irony) and I don't believe Vecna asked massive any questions. He also gives Vecna a lot of crap for a unstated L-1 that never happened, and was thought to happen because he fakevoted. Looks like a setup to me.
Page 23:
Vecna says Ginngie is trying to be a Wisdom clone by not reading which actually strengthens my Ginngie scumread a bit, because of how I managed to get Wisdom as scum once. It was noted earlier he was acting like he was current but in his words didn't seem to be. I caught Wisdom for about the same thing.
Page 24:
Monkey's reaction to Vecna's claim feels meh. Addressing this now, Vecna wasn't that high in votes when he claimed I think so it was kinda stupid imo.

Not gonna make a full list but I'm bumping monkey down to leantown because not as strong at this point and him being a bit sketchy on page 24.

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 25:
Don't think Vecna blocked TChill so either he didn't shoot, he shot Vecna's target, he shot Vecna (which is horrible), or he is scum. 3 and 4 can coincide fyi.
Grendel's saying to leash Teech is pretty cool from him. Also, looking forward to Vecna's response as he's had some fun times with leashing "vigs".
Also mafia vigs are blacklisted, very likely due to how they promote a lot of swing and make it very dangerous once the game gets close to lylo.
Page 26:
SKs are actually advised to not claim vig unless tracked/watched fyi
Page 27:
Human's claim is so disappointing but I'm definitely thinking it is a town one. His progression to it feels really genuine.
Page 28:
My suspicions of Ginngie and Korts are still strong
Page 29:
Ginngie is just being loud :/
Page 30:
Assemble wagon nice, gonna be looking at it later I think
Page 31:
quick analysis says the Assembler wagon could be telling if certain other players were online then. TChill I want you to vig Assembler tonight. This isn't an order, just a suggestion, as I feel it can help sort things.

[Gamma Emerald]

Reads right now

Conftown: Vecna
Town: Eddie, Robb, monkey, TChill
Leantown: Grendel
Nultown: nancy, massive
Null: Dark Horse (haven't really seen too much of them tbh, might be UTR mafia)
Nullscum: Assembler
Scum: Ginngie, Korts

---

Also gonna be multiquoting for the bulk of Day 2's content. This likely means I'm leaving the page divisions. I'll be trying to use lines to make things clearer if I don't have a quote to go with my response to something.

[Gamma Emerald]

Posts through page 34

I got one note before being torn away by work -- Nancy is probably town for 583; I can't see picking "Vecna is a flat-out liar" as a hill you want to die on if you're scum and he's just claimed jailkeeper.

I feel like this is a good point and am bumping nancy up a tier.

I mean I'm guessing the last minute wagon was due to the face that assembler has done so little that there wouldn't be that many people opposed to his lynch. It was pretty clearly a desperation wagon in an attempt to stop a no lynch after how split town was.

I already talked about why I think monkey's scum but basically the way he claimed feels off, the way he's been omgusing slots was wack, his last minute switch on vecna felt fake, and I really don't like the huge double standard korts had between monkey and vecna's claims.

Assembler's play feels more Vig bait.

Which baffles me as to why TChill didn't shoot him.

@Tchill

Can you publicly submit a pool of players you intend to shoot in tonight?

Will make it easier to confirm your kill tomarrow.

VOTE: Grendel

With his vote placement in mind and the fact that he made this statement I feel that Grendel is scum.

Actually this statement makes sense from town him. What's the deal with his vote placement though?

My play so far would have drawn a vigkill, I now realize. If TChill did not shoot me, I highly doubt his claim.
VOTE: TChill

This now needs to die: this is a scummy pop-in, which is when a mafia makes a vote and doesn't do much else while lurking or generally being inactive.

I did not use my ability and I am not claiming one shot. I wasn't gonna kill a townie on accident on top of the fact that we had already given scum a free kill because of the no lynch.

Thanks for explaining. I can see this mindset, though I 100% would have vigged Assembler.

VOTE: Tchill

Korts coming in with the terrible vote.

[Gamma Emerald]

Rest of the posts to now

"even if I'm town it's not sure I'd be killed at this point" lol. Yeah scums gonna leave the pr alive that can kill them. That's laughable. If you don't believe I'm a vig then you should believe I'm scum. It's as simple as that.

None of us believe you're a vig. BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T VIG ANYONE. Jeezus.

Like, honestly, why would Mafia kill you if you actually ARE town? You're too terrified to actually shoot. You're just a named townie.

This is bad but not necessarily scummy. Just a bit of cognitive dissonance I think.

Okay, I'm finally sitting down to recalibrate. I'm gonna have to do this in portions though, because I have a bunch of other shit to deal with too.

VOTE: unvote

Reread notes - page 1-3 - The Percy wagon builds up

• Robb's post 14, after Percy repeated her silly first vote reason in an intentionally silly way, is way too serious and immediate a response (coming within 5 minutes of Percy's post). Then Percy's appeal to RVS is dismissed with some boggling logic in 16.
  This is the molehill at the bottom of the mountain that was the Percy vs. Robb fight, and even though I agree with Dark Horse's 18 that Percy's dismissal of Robb sounded forced, I think Robb's reply is even more so - "you didn't RVS" is already a pretty unjustified argument, because RVS is a game state that dictates arbitrary voting, and not any individual action, which means that any vote in RVS is, by definition, participation in RVS; and the follow-up argument of "when you don't RVS you need to make sense" is just downright empty rhetoric.
  This could just be Robb trying to move the game forward, but it's a very shaky foundation to have started building on.
   
  
• Based on just this initial exchange, Kaboose and Dark Horse immediately jump on Percy's wagon, which I find weird. When I was first reading through this exchange, I automatically parsed it as town v. town, but if I had to choose a less defensible side, it would be Robb's. (I say less defensible instead of scummy, because again, this is early game activity.)
   
  
• Meanwhile, Tchill's post 20 does not take a side in the Percy/Robb spat, but does riff on Percy's silly "we must have blood" reason to start an unrelated wagon on monkey. Nancy immediately takes a mediating role between Robb and Percy, asking both to elaborate on their positions. monkey puts additional pressure on Percy, and asks Robb seemingly pointed questions (though when I ask him about it, he seems to echo Robb's reasoning instead of questioning it). Then he gets gratingly cocky in response to Ginggie's townAF read on him - "how much do you trust that read" still rubs me wrong, even if Ginggie's post warranted questions itself.
   
  
• massive and Tchill jump on Percy, both of them just openly riding the wagon.
   
  
• Percy's defense against Robb in 42 is sound. In response, Robb doubles down on his bullshit logic in 45, and gets immediate heat from massive and Tchill, who are voting together in immediate succession again.
   
  
• monkey makes cases on Percy and Tchill, changes vote to Tchill, then a couple posts later back to Percy. His case against Percy is pretty weak though, as it's built on the "it was a real reason, not a joke reason" argument, when, come on - how the fuck do you read "we must have blood" as a real reason?

This is pretty much the peak of the Percy wagon, then Tchill starts taking off on the next page. At this point of the reread, Robb is coming off as deliberately obtuse in pursuit of Percy's wagon, while monkey is enabling the bullshit. Tchill looks like he's sheeping massive. Out of all this, monkey's behavior is still the one making me most uncomfortable. I'm gonna keep reading tomorrow, but right now, I feel like I really shouldn't have let go of the monkey scum read so easily. Robb is the second scummiest in these first three pages, especially in connection with monkey.

Tomorrow, I will be examining the Tchill wagon's development.

Now it's time to address this. I don't like it. He seems to be painting the people voting PS as scum no matter who they are.

PEdit: that's kinda cool. BTW I think your advice about sticking to less games so I could apply myself is pretty good, I'm in a few games but I am mostly just playing around one game per site I play on. Only one that defies this is Mafia Universe and even then I'm in very few there due to game speed being faster. I thought it was going to be horrible but it's not too bad. Actually managed to mechanically break a game!

Does this also explain the catch up shift?

I don't think I've ever seen you do catch up in such a methodical manner. o.o

Ideally this will be a precursor that you'll be playing a more content rich game. Tbh a lot of the games we had together where you were active lurking wasn't fun for me. Maybe it will make you easier to sort as well.

The catch-up shift is to reserve my posts for when I'm directly interacting with players. Though I do like this quite I bit as I've said.

Reads at this point:
Town: Eddie, Robbnva, monkey
Leantown: Kaboose (Grendel), nancy
Nulltown: TChill, massive
Nullscum: Assembler
Leanscum: Aristophanes, Ginngie
Scum: Korts

Why is Moneky top town read for an interaction he made almost ten pages ago? Can you go back and justify this when you get caught up?

I'm really not feeling Monkey as town here.

This is pretty much the peak of the Percy wagon, then Tchill starts taking off on the next page. At this point of the reread, Robb is coming off as deliberately obtuse in pursuit of Percy's wagon, while monkey is enabling the bullshit. Tchill looks like he's sheeping massive. Out of all this, monkey's behavior is still the one making me most uncomfortable. I'm gonna keep reading tomorrow, but right now, I feel like I really shouldn't have let go of the monkey scum read so easily. Robb is the second scummiest in these first three pages, especially in connection with monkey.

Tomorrow, I will be examining the Tchill wagon's development.

I don't want to interrupt your catch up mind set, but Rob's day play is usually like that.

I won't requote what Others/I said previously, but I want a direct response to those points regarding Rob once you hit the in your read through.

However I do endorse any and all Monkey sheeps tho Korts. <3

Pre Edit

@Gamma

What do you think of Gingie's IC cliam?

I thought it was a stupid D1 gambit at first, but she doubled down on it recently. I'm not sure what to think if she does end up not being an IC. Anyways, for the time being I think she is not good lynch pool material.

RE: Monkey: Yeah the thing at the beginning isn't enough to go that high at this point but there's also the way they claimed.
RE: Ginngie: I figured it was NAI fakeclaiming. I do agree Ginngie isn't a good lynch for now, I prefer Korts or Assembler. I will state that IC doesn't much qualify as a "power role" since you/the mod just do the thing and then you are the same as if you were innoed by a cop.

Hi. I've been prodded. I should really start declaring V/LAs.

I like how Gamma Emerald went in. It's a town entrance. Instead of coming in with an obvious agenda, he took time to read through the thread and move on from there. Definitely town.

Thank you but that's not the case. I almost never come in pushing something as a replacement, and most of the time I catch up like I have (though with less compression). If Vecna were still alive he'd tell you himself he's seen me do it as scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

Between Korts and Assembler I'd rather
VOTE: Korts
for 2 reasons
1) his lynch isn't being led by one of my scumreads
2) we haven't had a major wagon on him yet so this will make VCA that happens later more useful imo.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm an IC dumbass

Don't see any mod proof.
To eddie: for me, it's not meta that's making the townread, it's how genuine his pushes have felt to me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't really care if it's supposed to trigger in the future, I still can't tell if it's true so I'm going with "irrelevant".

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey Robb how about you switch to the wagon with more support

[Gamma Emerald]

Howdy folks!

I think I still haven't done a good job explaining my thought process for the stuff that got me wagonned but it's not really that important so I'm just going to let it go.

I buy that Tchill's vote switch could have been a slip. Scum motivation: just trying to lynch somebody and forgetting your previous positions (less than two hours later!) because you don't really mean them. Town motivation: changing your mind as you see things without worrying about seeming consistent because you only care about finding the answer. Being willing to call your own actions scummy if you think you're part of a scummy wagon, because even though you know you're town you recognize you did something scummy and are willing to point that out to make progress. Conclusion: kind of shockingly sloppy as scum but slips happen. But if he can explain their switch to my satisfaction, I'd call it actively towny.

Bleh I have too many townreads. I actually kind of scumread Korts on tone/structure which is unfortunate because he's also the most helpful person. But like he's

aggressively

helpful? Basically he reminds me of the "scumhunting" I did as scum in my last game. Jumping in early and responding to everything, trying to have lots of things to say when there doesn't exist much to say yet. I could vanity wagon him for it but I don't have that kind of confidence. I think I'll VOTE: Tchill because I really do want to force them to explain themself.

What exactly is going on here? In your post 72, which was your last post in the game prior to this one, you were townreading Korts for the exact same reason. Now you scumread him based on a projection if your own habits...and in the same post criticize TChill for flipping his vote. Contradictions, thy name is Persephone. Can you explain what was going on there to make

you

change your mind?

Also your scumread of Korts and TChill's scumread of Korts are reverberating in my head. You two aren't scumreading him for the exact same reason, but both of them look like attempts to make good behavior look bad, and that's curious to me, mostly because I don't think it's likely you and TChill are both scum.

Basically, I did an "omg who the hell even is scum" reread after a day away and just sort of imagined myself as scum writing the posts that different people wrote and it fit the best. I didn't even

look

at my own previous posts; I just read the stuff I missed and the isos of all the active people. I feel kind of silly now, and even less sure of myself obviously. I just if I spend all my time trying to be consistent and not look bad that will totally bias my thinking and I won't be able to actually come up with anything real.

I just have no squidding idea who is scum in this game. I have nothing. And I'm going to stop before I get into some sort of self-pitying rant about how I'm not good enough for newbie games. But like the reason I sound fake to everybody is that I'm trying to join a new community and fit in at the same time as I'm trying to solve a mystery and trying to decide which of my hypothetical new friends is trying to trick me. I just can't make my brain do those both at once very well.

Honestly playing scum was so much easier because all I had to do was get people to trust me. But now I'm going to be all sorts of things "town would never do" because I'm trying my best and don't know better. But I'm going to get lynched if I keep trying to pretend there's some deeper master plan to my inept flailings; it feels better to be read as scum than seen as incompetent but my wincon demands that I suck it up and admit to my actual stupid thought processes when people ask.

Robbnva I want you to put aside your tunnel for a second and tell me what you think of this post alone.

[Gamma Emerald]

Woohoo, I had prioirty #1!!

And wow, did scum really want treestump....

PeregrineV - Pyramids

Drixx

- Pyramids

Caesar Wills It

- Pyramids

viewtopic.php?f=90&t=70406

Scum REALLY wanted that treestump. Too much hype over the game with Pine as the treestump I guess.

Civilization Mafia Mafia:

Votecount 2.36:

humaneatingmonkey (4): Dark Horse, Sunlit Diamond, Grendel, Eddie Cane
Tchill13 (2): massive, Assemblerotws
Eddie Cane (1): Robbnva
Assemblerotws (1): Ginngie
Korts (1): Tchill13
Robbnva (0):
Grendel (0):
massive (0):
Sunlit Diamond (0):
Ginngie (0):
nancy (0):
Dark Horse (0):

Not Voting: nancy, humaneatingmonkey, Korts

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

The day has begun and will end in (expired on 2017-08-29 23:00:00).

Seeking replacement for Sunlit Diamond.

Spoiler: Remaining Posts:

Korts: 62
Ginngie: 63
humaneatingmonkey: 64
Eddie Cane: 65
Sunlit Diamond: 65
Robbnva: 62
Grendel: 62
massive: 63
Dark Horse: 55
Assemblerotws: 68
nancy: 70
Tchill13: 47

@Robb most recent one. Not including your vote, Korts has two while Eddie has none.

[Gamma Emerald]

@gamma that post is just AtE garbage. Why can't scum make that post? Why does it make that slot town?

Let's ignore how obviously scummy PS was. What has Eddie done that's town?

@eddie. If you are town you are more annoying. You Troll the fucking game and get mad cause somebody scum reads you for it.

I'm townreading it for the fact they provided the insight about being scumread being better than being called incompetent.
As for Eddie I think your logic there is way off, as I've noted earlier. I absolutely disagree that shitposting is not a town behavior. Plus I feel their effort was really towny, but I don't have the exact details for that yet.
And yeah being condescending is a problem. I remember you got lynched in Mini 1831 for pretty much that. It basically kills your charisma, meaning people won't want to work with you.

[Gamma Emerald]

1832 but w/e

[Gamma Emerald]

He hasn't been trolling 100% of the time though.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don't think that's the case though

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll read the thread tomorrow or tonight

Initial promise

You do realize the R in rvs means random right? He voted me for a game related reasons so asking him to explain himself and make sense is appropriate.

maybe you're just scum

Here's the start

[Gamma Emerald]

Dude, it's RVS; why are you expecting me to make sense?

unless you are

You mean this? I can't tell what he means.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay but that just nullifies my point. Why is shitposting so scummy?

[Gamma Emerald]

Robb vs eddie continyes to be a waste of time and is leading town away from people who are actually scummy. Both of you cut it. Robb quit trying to justify yourself with the same "B-b-but I've caught scum!" Eddie quit claiming that we need to get robb lynched just because he's tunneling you

Exactly, THANK YOU.

[Gamma Emerald]

So stop trying to talk to me. If you don't care what I have to say, stop trying to get my thoughts.

I'm only voting Eddie today. If that doesn't fit your own agenda fuck off

If we get another no lynch you are 100% to blame then.

[Gamma Emerald]

Nonono we wheel and deal if we compromise.
Robbnva, if we lynch Eddie and he flips town you are locked into pushing Korts tomorrow. Is this a deal?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well TChill backed off Korts so that's a no-go now. Seriously Chilly, you shoulda stuck to your guns.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Korts
Whatever. Also, Eddie please stay. I don't want to deal with Robb making the slot completely dead because he keeps turning off the people in it.

[Gamma Emerald]

People shouldn't quit just cause they are scumread. Town or scum it's a crappy thing to do.

He replaced out because you were being irrational and toxic.

[Gamma Emerald]

Grendel is Kaboose and I was happy voting Kaboose yesterday. Maybe a little dig into Grendel is in order.

I'm gonna stop you there. I know Grendel and I'm fairly certain he's town. Plus if I'm remembering right your reason for scumreading Kaboose may have been poor.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Robbnva

Well there's no need to be condescending.

Why do you think being condescending is alignment indicative? How is this a valid case to make? This was your third post in the game and third different vote. Did you have a reason to quit liking the Perse wagon for this?

I've already said I was content with 42-44, AND I've already said why I voted Robb, so I assume you'll get to it since you appear to be catching up on oh 4 pages one post at a time. And who said I needed to make a valid case? And who said being condescending is alignment-indicative?

Huh, nope, you didn't follow up your own questions with the answers, just left it to look like I didn't answer them already, and then made a scumread based off of it.

VOTE: Kaboose

Ginngie come actually play this game.

Okay so this isn't exactly what I thought but it's somewhat close. He's saying Kaboose is scum for what seems to be not looking for the answers and shading him with questions. I think this is a bit unfair seeing as iirc massive got upset because he was going one post at a time. If that was the case it makes sense he missed the answers.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hey Eddie could we get final reads if you intend to follow through on replacing out?

[Gamma Emerald]

I'd rather lynch the scum thank you
If you vigged Eddie's slot I wouldn't be too upset however, that's your call to make.

[Gamma Emerald]

That's misrepresenting me. I just am not going to throw a shit fit if you don't vig my scumreads.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I was starting to feel like Korts posts had more towny angles in them. My main reason throughout has been his angles being poor. There's also his cruddy vote on TChill Day 2.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oops missed half of your stuff to me.
Ginngie didn't have a vote on them so I didn't feel like pushing them.
As for the off-site game that was a whoops, probably because your name was different.
BTW you gonna play the new closed standard Grendel/Aquila has up?

[Gamma Emerald]

What do you mean by towny / poor angles? Not sure I understand you there; definitely need more from you than just a cursory one-word take on his content so far - he's produced more substantive content than a lot of players here right now including me so I don't feel like there should be any real lack of ability to talk about why on your read there; think if you're town here you need to do a lot more work in showing how you're getting to your reads because I'm not really seeing that from you right now. I'm not really feeling too much better about you than your predecessor although your treatment of Robbnva overall has been pretty decent I think; a lot of my concerns are just that I don't really understand your pushes / the progression on your reads so that's definitely something I'd like addressed - what do you dislike about the Tchill vote? Why are you townreading Tchill aside from the claim? Why are you townreading Grendel in particular as strongly as you are? Don't understand the move from lean town in 913 to basically telling people not to scumhunt him in 999? If you could run through that for me that would be pretty helpful.

Thanks for the invite but I'm not really visiting the site anymore + am overgamed and not into mafia at all right now after ~1-2 things that happened recently so I don't think I'll take you up on it sorry; doubt I'll be joining any more games anywhere for the time being except maybe on MU if I see a playerlist that I really like; if I do play one here it'll 100% be in a hydra with someone like Prism/Plotinus/mastina who I really enjoy spending time with / feel understood by.

Also I wasn't in GiF's game I don't think unless you're referring to something else.

I feel like the things Korts is choosing to push are being pushed for scum gain. I'll go in-depth at some point soon, likely within 24 hours.
Other than the claim, I think I am townreading TChill for some of his reads he's made. There's also the votes from Assembler and Korts that make him very likely town imo.
I'm not necessarily saying "don't scumhunt Grendel", I'm just trying to guide massive on his read on him. Also massive credited a thought I had to Grendel exclusively and pushed him with this.
You were in Democracy in GiF's game.

[Gamma Emerald]

You were in Democracy in GiF's game.

She probably doesn't remember that because when a traumatic event happens, you tend to have no memory of it because you don't want to remember it.

All I know is that we signed up for that game, anything else, couldn't tell ya what happened >_>

So no grudges held, sweet!

[Gamma Emerald]

I get that Tchill and the fact that you didn't shoot last night isn't really one of my concerns with you right now personally (you couldn't have shot anyway since you were jailed by Vecna) just as long as you understand that probably the biggest reason why you're not scum here is that you've claimed Vigilante - if you're not shooting that becomes pretty problematic. You're right that it's not something that needs to be talked about because it's irrelevant as soon as you do shoot but that does absolutely need to happen and arguing that you don't want to shoot tonight because you might hit town isn't really acceptable here; does that make sense? Basically just wanting to make sure that you confirm your role here so we don't have to worry about your slot anymore.

Wait what

[Gamma Emerald]

I wouldn't say lynch Ginngie if he's not autoconfirmable but I won't object unless I end up townreading him

[Gamma Emerald]

Eh I can't really call anything from Eddie pro-town all I can muster is that some things are NAI. He's still not the worst for me though.

[Gamma Emerald]

So HEM is intending to DoP-style scumhunt the extend vote claims, cool

[Gamma Emerald]

Resonding to monkey:
"I think Gamma is misrepresenting Korts in his page 3 analysis. He had no way to know or think that I'm an easy target at that point." Maybe you weren't an easy target but you were certainly not anyone worth pushing at that point.
"Gamma reads Grendelslot as town simply because he agrees with him. Pet peeve." That's wrong, I believe Grendel's play here comes from his towngame.
"Actually, Gamma's reads were unsatisfactory still becaue it didn't go into the details of why things are good or bad or okay. Some of it was even irrelevant to the gamestate now." Well yeah some might be but I wanted to show my thought process as I was reading.
"Gamma, can you elaborate on why you townread me? Because I don't think I have been playing as an obvtown this game so you dimissing me as town without paranoia is suspicious." Basically your beginning play and your claim are what make it solid.
"#910
Gamma, why were you reading Vecna's as leantown?" Because his reads felt genuine. I did initially take issue with him sasying he agreed with Korts' reads but apparently that turned around once the readslist was posted by Korts.
"#916
Gamma has a good catch about massive's #778. But since nancy is already town by consensus, any read that glorifies her makes me feel like it's either genuine or seeking towncred. So I don't think that will make me bump massive up. However, Gamma seeing this from massive makes me put on some towncred on him." Wait can you explain what you mean here?
"Gamma, what do you think about #823 now that I've pointed out that TChill voted him as soon as the Day 2 starts? Do you smell inconsistency?" Not really, the vote was just "let's finish what we started" in my eyes.
"#974
Gamma, I can see what you mean, but do you also mean that you don't think Eddie can be a leading wagon?" I think that the mindset Robb was showing was indictive of a possible split in votes that would result in a no lynch
"#989
Why were you open to lynch Eddie, a townread, just to pocket Robb into lynching Korts? That's bad. That's very bad." I was trying to ensure that I had someone pushing with me the next day, as well as carrying the torch if I got nightkilled.
"#999
What was the reason for preventing someone from reading someone in depth? Wouldn't that benefit town? Still bad." Um you still want me to answer this?
"#1023
"I'm just trying to guide massive on his read on him." Why did you feel the need to do that, Gamma?" Because I felt massive wasn't really giving him a fair shake.

In other news:
Welcome to GR! How much have you read? Any reads yet? I think you're town but people are lining up to lynch you.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Korts
Goodbye. I looked over your post and your confession doesn't actually improve my read on you, plus that attack on Robb was just gross.
Although I do like the emerald replacing diamond note as a "haha cool thing" moment.
I think a lot of that post is pocketing btw, look at how many townreads he has.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'll cover everything on this page later, got other things on my mind rn

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Korts

You have been voting me since the moment you were caught up. Since then, this is the second time you made it look like you were adding your vote to my wagon. Are you trying to create the illusion of momentum?

I think a lot of that post is pocketing btw, look at how many townreads he has.

I have not made any townread declarations in that post.

I forgot I was. Still a good thing to reaffirm the location of my vote. Also you may not have voiced solid townreads but you look like you're trying to appease everyone. Plus the fact you said "I am left with Assembler" more or less says you're townreading all the others.

Will try to make some proper time for this game soon.

@Gamma still waiting on pretty much any meaningful response from you on your scumreads / reads in general; re 1023 townreading Tchill for some of the reads that he's made isn't something that I can make sense of without elaboration - would definitely like you to talk about what you mean there / which reads specifically you think he's had that he wouldn't have had as scum here; think that if you genuinely want to guide people to your reads then the way to do is going to be to talk about why / your reasoning - expecting people to just sheep your read because it's something you're saying they should believe in isn't going to get you very far at all in the best of circumstances.

Eddie read in particular is something that I'm struggling to see from you right now on top of what I've already brought up with you; don't understand at all how you go from having Eddie as a townread and telling Robb that his scumread there is wrong / Eddie's effort was town in 953 (really not understanding what "don't have the details for that yet" means there, please explain that) to saying that you wouldn't be upset if Eddie was vigged and that you can't recall anything from him that's pro-town in 1064, as well as what feels like a ton of dissonance in the sequence around 972/979 overall - not really finding your response to monkey in 1097 on that point particuarly sensible when the question there is about the stance of being open to lynch Eddie despite having stated pretty strongly (?) that you felt the slot was town, not your interaction with Robbnva - feels a little like a dodge from you there and your progression on the slot overall has been pretty troubling + haven't even heard what your reasoning for the townread was in the first place or what changed that; really need you to start being clear on your process there at this point please.

I'll cover the Eddie read now: it's based on how Persephone talked about being scumread feeling better than being called incompetent. I highly doubt they would hae had such an organic perspective such as that as scum. I'll try to break down what I find towny about eddie's effort and TChill in a bit, but I can say that now. As for voting Eddie I just got fed up and felt that would help in some way, hopefully break Robb out of his tunnel and get him looking through a broader scope.

@Gamma

Grendel is Kaboose and I was happy voting Kaboose yesterday. Maybe a little dig into Grendel is in order.

I'm gonna stop you there. I know Grendel and I'm fairly certain he's town. Plus if I'm remembering right your reason for scumreading Kaboose may have been poor.

Since when have you town read me enough to hard defend me like this?

You hold some degree of suspicion towards me even when you town read me when you are town. Like, you think I'm town vs this game where you talk like you know I'm town.

Its gets even weirder since I'm explicitly not among your strong town reads.

Speaking of which, you never got around to better verbalizing your monkey town read did you?

I feel your play is more reminiscent of your town play and less like your play in Doctor Who Mafia. I think you could still be scum but I think that would be an endgame paranoia read if I read you that way at all here. As for monkey I'm not sure whether or not I've explained it but I'll do it, and if I already had whatever it's an extra one.

@Gamma

Does Monkey remind you of my play in newbi 1734? Maybe even a tad?

Not sure. What similarities do you see? Also, I don't think he'd be quite the same as you scumplay-wise from what I've seen of his scumgame so far (spectating his newbie game). I'll look over it if you can show a real connection and relevance, as I don't feel like one's there.

[Gamma Emerald]

Sweeping up things:
in nancy's post she says "I don't see how you could be okay with Eddie being vigged" and "I don't get you saying Eddie hasn't done anything pro-town": I was okay with him being vigged because I felt that would help town cohesion by removing Robb's main blockade to working with everyone else. As for not havig done anything pro-town but me townreading him: yeah he may not have actually had any actual protown influence on the game, but he has been towny. There's a significant difference. Honestly Eddie's behavior could be policy lynch worthy if you look at it from a certain angle.
As for TChill I'm not sure if I could find what I was referring to but I feel TChill's reads are based in actual things. His progression on the PS wagon initially looked poor but he explained later and it made sense. TChill initially wanted to get a wagon going which makes sense and I can see town motivation for. I recall in Large normal 204 I called Ginngie's(?) desire for dueling wagons between me and another player town even though it was a generally scummy concept because I could see the town drive there (they wanted to sort who chose whom to vote and their logic). BTW @Grendel this is also why I was townreading monkey early, he said he wanted to fuel the PS/Robb debate and see how it went which would seem scummy but makes sense from town because of the same reasoning I brought up from Ginngie(?) in Large normal 204. Then he switches to Robb because essentially he feels Robb is playing up the read which makes sense as well, since scum have to change the consideration on certain points to swing reads in their favor (based on mastina's teachings). I'll skip to later now with his reasons for not vigging anyone. He stated he didn't want to give scum another free kill after the no-lynch. While this premise is quite faulty as it's a town-controlled kill by nature, it makes sense as he could have been scared to shoot without a flip to base his target on.

[Gamma Emerald]

More stuff (meant to include this but hit submit early by accident):
Eddies's effort: He looks a little scattered but I can see a direct line in his first 3 efforting posts (talking about the possibility of Robb being scum) that leads to his saying "unless you are" referring to Robb expecting RVS votes to make sense. Also his post with his reads summary is a good post imo as it shows decent consideration into the game's events.

[Gamma Emerald]

@MOD it's been a while since we got a votecount and it's close to deadline, please provide a votecount

[Gamma Emerald]

I do see what you are talking about in your first paragraph. The interactions between the two slots did get vitriolic because of that one v one. In the second paragraph I see what you meant and yeah I didn't see anything that felt middle-of-the-roadish to me. I don't really agree that interacting in the present is a big town indicator. For me it's something I commonly do, and something I decided to not do here as I've noted it becomes detrimental at times, specifically in Real Folk Blues it kept me from reading through at a decent speed.
So, other than monkey, where are your reads at? I mostly want to see who you are considering lynching as we get close to deadline.
I'll do the monkey scumgame analysis soonish.

[Gamma Emerald]

Who is down for lynching human and Robbna?

Why?

[Gamma Emerald]

Who is down for lynching human and Robbna?

Why?

Wagons die when they get wagoned + they have counters, so I am curious there until people show up.

Not sure what "Wagons die when they get wagoned + they have counters" means.

[Gamma Emerald]

Responding to monkey's post.

Maybe you weren't an easy target but you were certainly not anyone worth pushing at that point.

Who would you have thought was someone worth pushing at that point if you had been Korts? Where would you get that information from?

Well he noted the chainsaw defense from Aristophanes so him/nancy would have been okay. Maybe TChill as well, as he agreed with you there.

That's wrong, I believe Grendel's play here comes from his towngame.

Can you please explain how that may be the case?

Grendel has a certain solvingness quality to his posts that he lacks when mafia I feel. Here he actually feels like he's trying to solve the game so he feels like town!him.

Well yeah some might be but I wanted to show my thought process as I was reading.

Still didn't accomplish your goal because I had no idea how your brain decided which is good, bad, okay.

I tried to put reasons as to why each read changed in each post but idk maybe I missed something.

Basically your beginning play and your claim are what make it solid.

Can you explain this so I know you're just not pocketing me?

I've stated this apart but I don't think together. I feel your decision to fuel the 1 v 1 between PS and Robb, while it may have sent town through a dark path, was a town-motivated idea. Honestly looking at what I think about the post, it has TWTBAW notes. as for the claim, you don't seem like you're fakeclaiming PR as mafia since you are somewhat overt about you being a PR. That overtness could backfire if you were mafia.

Not really, the vote was just "let's finish what we started" in my eyes.

What motivation do you think TChill has for "finishing what we started" when he could have done that as a Vigilante last night?

He was concerned about giving mafia a kill. Did you not see him say that?

I was trying to ensure that I had someone pushing with me the next day, as well as carrying the torch if I got nightkilled.

What made you think that you were getting nightkilled any time soon? There are three PR claimers and one unanimous decision townread. I don't see that motivation genuinely coming from you unless you're bullshitting me right now.

I was just worried about being killed for my reads. Guess it may have been irrational fear but I felt that way then.

Because I felt massive wasn't really giving him a fair shake.

How would you infer that?

It felt like massive already made up his mind on Grendel based on Kaboose's content.

plus that attack on Robb was just gross.

Do you think that was alignment-indicative?

Yeah, it's basically ad hominem. Hmm, maybe there could be a logic for Eddie being scum in there. Why would Korts ad hominem if Eddie was town? I may have to look over what was being ad homed about.

Although I do like the emerald replacing diamond note as a "haha cool thing" moment.

Sarcastic or no?

Nope. Actually, I have a stupid idea for an alt based on that connection: "Moonglow Pearl" (since Sunlit Diamond is Pokémon Sun + Pokémon Diamond).

it's based on how Persephone talked about being scumread feeling better than being called incompetent. I highly doubt they would hae had such an organic perspective such as that as scum.

Good point. See, when you tell us why exactly, you'll get less dirty looks.

I believe scum wouldn't make that comment because it kinda seems like it's putting a "kick me" sign on yourself, saying to scumread them rather than call them incompetent town, which scum wouldn't want.

As for voting Eddie I just got fed up and felt that would help in some way, hopefully break Robb out of his tunnel and get him looking through a broader scope.

So you townread Robb more than Eddie? Because you're willing to appease Robb by lynching Eddie so that you can get him to sheep you.

Honestly yeah, given all that I've said this is pretty much true. Both have had town motivations, but Robb had actually been putting in the work to solve the game.

Honestly Eddie's behavior could be policy lynch worthy if you look at it from a certain angle.

What angle was this?

That he hasn't actually helped town in the slightest. He was just sitting there and looking cute.

Then he switches to Robb because essentially he feels Robb is playing up the read which makes sense as well, since scum have to change the consideration on certain points to swing reads in their favor (based on mastina's teachings).

I'm too lazy to scroll back to that point but I remember siding with Robb on that one and voting Percy. Are you wrong or am I wrong?

This refers to TChill though.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Monkey: I don't see myself as inconsistent. I'm just dawning on new perspectives as things go on.
I can't tell what TChill was thinking, ask him I guess. I've just been inferring based on what I've seen from his posts.
Robb was confbiased but he was still trying. Eddie wasn't actually contributing much to game progress.
And yeah I pretty much feel that way about Eddie.

[Gamma Emerald]

I can do Titus. Massive would be a "we need a lynch" vote.
Actually I think that lynching Titus would be more advisable than Korts at this juncture, mainly because the sum of the slots results in Titus coming out worse tbh.
VOTE: Titus

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm current, and DAMN that's a lot of people from Civ.

VOTE: Chilly

Why do you think this is a good vote? Do you know what he claimed?
@Math I'm looking forward to working with you. However, I think that monkey post is dumb but not scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Math monkey claimed PR.

[Gamma Emerald]

How much time do you have? Go read the thread again because I'm a town PR role.

So? Role madness normals and scum can have PRs.

If every person claimed PR would you lynch yourself as the only unclaimed player?

I am not claiming PR and not claiming not PR. Your second defense of Monkey is noted.

@Tchill I would add Gamma to the mix. We should be lynching one of Titus and Monkey and don't want to telegraph to scum who you're shooting.

Why don't you just let him vig from HIS reads for now. Leashing isn't a "do this always" thing.

[Gamma Emerald]

Also, the way monkey claimed PR is fairly natural so I think it's real.
Plus, you seem to be implying you scumread me. Why is that? If not, why suggest me?

[Gamma Emerald]

How about you idiots read the game instead of coming in and slinging mud at people who don't do what you want them to do.

Also, the way monkey claimed PR is fairly natural so I think it's real.
Plus, you seem to be implying you scumread me. Why is that? If not, why suggest me?

1) No. I don't think it was. And even if it was natural doesn't make him Town. This an attempt to humanize scum. Emotions and "natural" aren't the way to read people. Scum can be natural and Town can be weird. It's about assessing the belief behind the posts.

2) I suspect you because you're defending obvScum monkey yet not providing any content or suggesting an alternate so we move towards a lynch. You have posts use them. Anyone not campaigning for someone to eat rope with this little time gets a huge FoS.

Time is a factor people. Come on and vote and consolidate people.

I gotta go grocery shopping. Need foods.

I have been providing content, how about you read the WHOLE game? As for my alternate Titus is what I want most but Drixx is good too, Ginngie is okay, and I can accept anything that isn't Math, Tchill, or Monkey, and will show resistance to GR, nancy, or Grendel.
Also I have posts but NOT a lot. PAY ATTENTION TO THE RULES OF THE GAMES YOU PLAY!

I concur that Monkey looks super opportunistic sliding in there and trying to be subtle about directing the lynch. Gamma is either playing really badly or has a bad case of sittingonthefencitis, which is fatal when it comes to end of day and causes no lynches.

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

Why do you say I'm playing badly? Also how am I fencesitting?

[Gamma Emerald]

My play so far would have drawn a vigkill, I now realize. If TChill did not shoot me, I highly doubt his claim.
VOTE: TChill

Looking back to try to counter Drixx, my reason for suspecting this has changed. It is now: why didn't he try AT ALL to improve his play after this? I think it was just fake posturing and piling on to a mislynch. However, I don't think he would have noted this himself so possibly pointing to daytalk?
As for why not monkey, he claimed PR with an obvious progression of thought to it, and I also liked his earnest early desire for action.

[Gamma Emerald]

I know who targeted TChill last night. Here is the problem, there are two people. one is scum the other is a town power role.

dilemma time.

Now I will take a 1v1 town/mafia trade all day, but would like to avoid it if possible (technically 2, since I am outing myself too but whatever)

so, on your next post, claim if you targeted TChill. DO NOT TELL ME WHAT POWER YOU USED, just that you targeted him.

here is what is going to happen, scum is going to (probably) wait as long as they can to claim to see who the other player is. Also scum might just straight out lie (which is what I am hoping). If they do that, then we know for sure which one is scum and the other doesnt have to claim. Time to see who starts to lurk.

not going to post again until the two players claim or someone lies about targeting TChill.

I didn't Target TChill.
But this rings oddly familiar. Grendel and nancy I ask you to recall the first trustthedeceived game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ginngie seems to be claiming watcher in a scenario where one mislynch will win the game for mafia. Let's note that watcher and cop are both powerful investigatives. It's highly unlikely we're seeing both even with the cop having a nerf.

[Gamma Emerald]

oh
forgot there was a no-lynch day 1 and thought it was mylo. I'm dumb, thanks massive

[Gamma Emerald]

Actually Ginngie, why did you claim day 3 IC? What was the benefit?

[Gamma Emerald]

Not commenting on the claim until everyone has checked in. Gamma if you're around I'd like to go over a few things with you please.

Can we please stop misgendering Ginngie.

Um sure?

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly I'm kinda shaken up now. Ginngie might actually be my top scumread for now. Still townread you and GR, but I'm feeling doubtful on Math.

[Gamma Emerald]

btw I'll be outta here after 8:40 and won't be back till thursday

[Gamma Emerald]

Ginngie's claim out of nowhere seems scummy as fuck intent to draw out PRs if something happened scum didn't expect.
However Ginngie has a radically different view of how to play mafia than I do.

Gamma's responses to the PR claims are notably different than Rematch and he seems more interested in shading Ginngie than asking questions or finding out the truth. Him being shaken up could be shocked. Gamma's comment about Watcher cop reads like someone who knows too much or is complaining about setup balance for scum. She didn't claim Watcher. This sounds like Gamma rolecopped or guessed.

There is one other potential role I can think of for her that works nicely.

If Ginngie is scum then the one of that trio is scum. Second if solved.

If Ginngie is town then one of unknown/nancy is scum.

However if Ginngie is a role that targets TChill (possible) and Ginngie is telling the truth then nancy is scum.

That is what was going on in my head. Gotta drive around an hour or two. Be back on when I can.

Ohhhhhkay let's break this down.
My responses are different to Rematch: EVERYTHING is different. Look at how much I've tried to compress my thoughts into fewer posts than that game. I'm also being more analytical about what things look like to me.
I'm more interested in shading Ginngie: I'm interested in understanding what on earth could motivate someone to claim that as a town PR, as well as some other things like "how did she get to know one was a town PR?".
Ginngie may not have claimed watcher but it's that, voyeur, or a greylist role. You can't claim that type of info as a tracker unless you're bluffing. (Note: Apparently it was a gambit, looking at the post preview window. That's cool, and explains a lot. I guess at this point I'm comfortable calling Ginngie town. The play is so strange it makes sense in a way.)

If you're going to lynch me for being skeptical go the fuck ahead but know I base my acceptance of claim-type things in my past experience. I've had an offsite game where I took a mason claim seriously because it looked like the Rematch masonizer, and was scumread for that.

Current list of people I think are near certain town: Ginngie, GR, nancy
People who I feel are town: Grendel, massive
some of these could be wrong, and probably are, but this is my general feeling at the moment.

I have to go to English 1102 now, see ya in an hour and a half or so. Be smart.

[Gamma Emerald]

Because it was originally directed towards you and I didn't care to fix it because time constraints. I told you I had to go to class.

[Gamma Emerald]

Why weren't you interjecting Drixx? Also I think you mean town gambiting, scum gambiting, or scum with amazeballs power. As for my reads yeah I agree it is pretty ass but it's how I feel. I guess maybe massive doesn't really deserve to be there, and maybe nancy sould be down one level.

[Gamma Emerald]

Suuuuuuuuure, whatever

fits your narrative

makes you happy.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma when you get back I'd really like it if you could go over your Grendel/Korts/Eddie reads for me because those are the ones I understand least from you; I have some pretty specific concerns there but I'd like it if you ran me through what each of your reads there is / how you got there before I go into more detail on that. If you think the flips have affected your read at all I'd like it if you talked about that / why too.

Grendel has a solving quality to his play as town that I've been receiving here. It's a judgment based on his own analysis of his scumplay actually, as well as applying my previous attempt at reading him, which succeeded.

Neither Game Replacement nor Vedith have posted on-site since August 31.

My ISO has my general read progression on Gamma. Some of it is gut but I was ok with Sunlit Diamond D1.

Ah shit did Vedith leave the site again.
I mean school is starting so it makes sense but why not give official word you're leaving?

The burden of role madness games -- everyone starts depending on the roles.

It's a normal, and we've had a VT flip? Wait. Is this a PR slip, a scumslip, or a display of a different perspective on role madness?

Spoiler: Here is the handy dandy guide to how to use the gambit

Subject: Hunger Games II [GAME OVER]

1- They claim quick usually with a “great CKD you ousted two powers roles, you suck” type of post.

I didn't Target TChill.
But this rings oddly familiar. Grendel and nancy I ask you to recall the first trustthedeceived game.

This is the first point with a spin.

Gamma Emerald shades my claim by referring to a scum game I played on a different sight where I hastily claimed a guilty on a player for the win in LyLo.

THIS IS okay to think because a guilty in LyLo is always sus, however it was pointed out by massive and Gamma acknowledged this point, that it was not MyLo.

so with me obviously not doing what I did before, the scum read expressed here:

Honestly I'm kinda shaken up now. Ginngie might actually be my top scumread for now. Still townread you and GR, but I'm feeling doubtful on Math.

Makes no literal sense.

It also doesn't make sense to scumread a player who basically has a guilty outside of MyLo.

I wasn't getting pissed for rolefishing, I was applying past knowledge of your play. So yeah there may have been spin but it's not the first outcome. As for my read on you after realizing it wasn't mylo I was a bit frazzled so I wasn't applying my realization to my reads.

[Gamma Emerald]

Suuuuuuuuure, whatever

fits your narrative

makes you happy.

[Gamma Emerald]

By the power of Ice Cream and Math I ask what are all your reads Gamma?

Warning: In California it is extremely hot and ice cream may melt at a moment's notice

I'm not sure on this order yet, plus I haven't reread which I think should probably be done, but I'd say
Town: Ginngie, GR
Towny: nancy, grendel
Nulltown/null: massive, dark horse
scummy: Math, Drixx

Grendel has a solving quality to his play as town that I've been receiving here. It's a judgment based on his own analysis of his scumplay actually, as well as applying my previous attempt at reading him, which succeeded.

Could you quote some of his posts you think have that quality / talk about how his scumplay is different please?

When he is scum he has difficulty manufacturing gamesolvey posts. I'll work on pulling up quotes later.

*Yawn*

I really suppose I should quit being this macho about Gamma being scum but I guess it is in my nature.

I just wanna see Gamma give reads before I die.

This confuses me but I don't know why. I guess maybe it just feels like he's trying to do effort justification or something.

I had this in a window so I'll just post it.

It's a normal, and we've had a VT flip? Wait. Is this a PR slip, a scumslip, or a display of a different perspective on role madness?

I expect one VT in a role madness game, but probably only exactly one.

Guess you might want to claim then?

And honestly Math does have a point to nancy. She keeps stalling on actually engaging with me I feel.

[Gamma Emerald]

After getting current from last time I'm feeling a bit uneasy with massive rn. He doesn't seem to be looking at things through a normal scope, specifically the Ginngie gambit. It feels like he's spinning things or completely misinterpreting the point of the gambit.
Also real talk I'm kinda not to engaged rn but I'm going to try and keep active.
Also 3 days and I'm the lead wagon O_O I'll put a vote down later hopefully but I'm just going to state that people should take an honest look at that and think "why would a player be so unopposed near deadline?"

[Gamma Emerald]

That's not exactly what I mean. You seem to be believing he wasn't up with the hype of the gambit, which I don't see as true.

[Gamma Emerald]

It means he did or didn't believe in the validity of what he was doing.

[Gamma Emerald]

hardclaim vanilla townie. I don't really see much new here. What I'm going to try to think on is whether massive was being genuine when he said he thought it was role madness.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hm
I'm not so on board with lynching nancy but I guess it's an option. I'm with math in wanting to know if nancy used her other shot.
VOTE: nancy

This is L-1, wait until nancy answers the question to hammer at least

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm actually thinking our next lynch should be MathBlade. He constantly pushed me over anyone else, I don't think he even mentioned anyone else readwise yesterday. With the development of yesterday's lynch it feels scummy to me. Although from what Drixx is saying I think a scum would be on nancy's wagon.
VOTE: MathBlade

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

Imho obvious from yesterday.

Will post more when I can Wednesdays suck for Mafia for me.

Why is it "obvious"?

[Gamma Emerald]

No votes

What?

[Gamma Emerald]

*snore*

This ice cream might melt of boredom.

Prod Dodge because literally nothing has happened.

Vanilla ice cream kill Gamma Emerald

Try it I dare you.

Will type a long ass post why when I get home but you+nancy is incredibly obvious. Else why would nancy roll over?

Framing me, most likely.

[Gamma Emerald]

just realized we are not in Mylo lmao

Also I'll just win the game real quick in a second.

rofl

[Gamma Emerald]

What was the implication of the claim though? I am a VT so I thought "okay I know he's wrong but is he being genuine about this or not?"
As for what Drixx said I think it's more of a speculative conclusion that there's a vanilla cop, which I'm not so sure of. And no, backup vanilla cop doesn't become active on regular cop death, deputy does.
Also lime, your gimmick is honestly the worst one I've seen.
PEdit: why do you doubt MathBlade + Grendel?

[Gamma Emerald]

Well that's me not reading the entire post by massive. Thanks for clarifying that.

[Gamma Emerald]

Busy but compare interactions.

Robbvna was never questioned by nancy

However, was always defending Robb by questioning and saying scumreads on him didn't make sense.

Considering its quite clear that nancy fucked heavily with asking a lot of questione, giving reasoning for people.

She has no basis for her reads to justify the defense of that slot.

nancy scum will call the scummiest teammate town. Example when she said Math was town even after the horribad push by Math on her.

This was nancy going "I don't understand why you're trying to bus me or distance, when she will just go "let us just townread each other."

I was also manipulating nancy.

She in night and day lied and called me Town.

I had her pegged on read in and called her Town to get her to relax then lead Gamma wagon and then scum divert to another scum and you have the courage to bullshit I am scum?

ObvTown doesn't mean right.

We are lynching Gamma who scum didn't want lynched.

Wait she LIED in night and day? can you cite this?

[Gamma Emerald]

Game solved just no townies or anyone who isn't pocketed around.

*sigh*

LOL rip Math, this post is so bad
If it said "townies not pocketed" it would be better but this shows the frustration Math is experiencing about not being able to get me lynched.

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait I ISOed math and he didn't have a guilty, unless you mean his "one of X and Y" theories

[Gamma Emerald]

LMAO he's been clear for a while that it was a gambit

[Gamma Emerald]

Hm
Math go look at nancy's late interactions with Grendel and tell me with a straight face that he's her mafia partner
This is prompted after a quick look at nancy's ISO fueled by my tryhard mode being on. I'm gonna also reISO myself and see what I think of things I found notable earlier.

[Gamma Emerald]

Page 3:
Korts' monkey vote is pretty bad imo, tbh he doesn't seem to be actually scumhunting, just poking at easy targets

Only thing I found worth mentioning, now that we know HEM was town this might hold more weight. I've noted Drixx seems to be a wagon option, am I correct?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Drixx
Let's do this then.

[Gamma Emerald]

RE: Grendel and nancy I was looking at nancy's side of things dude

[Gamma Emerald]

Also looking at those posts by Grendel please check context first, those are from different days so there's a high likelihood of read changes.

[Gamma Emerald]

What wagon on me? It's just Mathblade.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ginngie actually makes a lot of sense. If nancy really did care about saving me why was she voting me in the first place?

[Gamma Emerald]

I was just trying to help define the point.

[Gamma Emerald]

We just went an entire day without activity I think. Step it up. Grendel I'd like you to cast a vote ASAP.

[Gamma Emerald]

lol sorry was doing homework/worrying about offsite games. I could go for Drixx or Math, though I think I'm leaning towards Drixx for now.

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: MathBlade
believe this is L-2 again

[Gamma Emerald]

your post broke o_O

[Gamma Emerald]

I started rereading some isos. Starting with Korts/Drixx. I'm getting off now but expect to come back and finish that tomorrow afternoon.

I'm thinking Lime next and finishing with Math.

@Gamma

Did you ever post a more through case on that slot?

Korts kinda reminds me of our mutual frieng UG's scum game. Where UG gets all Grandose and dramatic with his posting. Outside of that I'm not sure I'm seeing as much Korts!scum as I expected (I'm at Kort's 316 aka Tchill scum case). If you have any input to share please do.

I take it this refers to Korts/Drixx?

[Gamma Emerald]

Are you going to give reads like ever?

Probably not...but I am weighing whether I should vote Drixx or you right now.

If I remember correctly you only do it when you're trying to case someone right?

[Gamma Emerald]

You were voting him before tho

[Gamma Emerald]

Last time I played him he said something to that extent. What was your last game with him?

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess other than Railgun btw since he entered late iirc

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess other than Railgun btw since he entered late iirc

Oh you mean except the game that actually matters because he was a replacement there and a replacement here.

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=71732&user_select[]=28106

Look at the cut of Power's jib in that game. Power gives opinions and pushes things.

He read enough of the thread to understand it and make smart ass comments.

Seriously. The fact Power isn't commenting / making a decision on anything means he is scum.

There are several differences however. I don't particularly care to argue this anymore because I wouldn't be able to say anything meaningful that Penguin wouldn't.

[Gamma Emerald]

Code: Select all

[post=#9469962]Your text here[/post]

Your text here
fyi this goes to post 1, you can use the tiny page icon next to the part that says "Post XXXX by PlayerName >> DD Month YYYY Time of post" to get that 7 number string that links to the post

[Gamma Emerald]

What are you using as your definition of "active lurking"? I'm not sure if it's actually an issue with my playstyle or I just end up always doing it when I play with you.

[Gamma Emerald]

That's what I'm saying. You always do this to -me-. You come in a always post the same surface level crap that makes playing with you a real chore. A player with no knowledge of the game could come in and say half the stuff you do.

Like why do you keep signing up to play with me if you aren't going to give the game any reasonable effort.

Do you not have the respect for me as a player to take playing with me seriously? To take this game seriously?

I don't know. For some reason I just struggle. Maybe I just get lazy, knowing you can read me.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think it's fairly obvious what Mathblade is trying to do, am I wrong?

[Gamma Emerald]

Now I'm baffled, why am I not in your scum list anymore?

[Gamma Emerald]

What about yesterday tho

[Gamma Emerald]

He had an opportunity to bus yesterday, why didn't he?

[Gamma Emerald]

Why has it been annoying you all day?

[Gamma Emerald]

I've been thinking on why this thought from you disturbs me so much and this thought bubbled up: it kinda seems like you are trying to work up a narrative of how things are happening. I've never seen you state this and work with it before so it's either a fairly recent revelation to you which is strange or it's something you're whipping out for some reason right here, which would most likely be to make points you make sound more credible.

[Gamma Emerald]

Show me in a game I've played with you.

[Gamma Emerald]

Just gonna note you were wrong that time, but okay thanks for resolving that. I'll see what I think of it with that in mind.

[Gamma Emerald]

Lime, question, what is your opinion on a PP + Math scumteam?

[Gamma Emerald]

Yes I do, don't interrupt.

[Gamma Emerald]

LOL rip. I figured he reached that conclusion but forgot he posted it in-thread.

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly it feels more like a Drixx + PP team trying to do distancing, looking at PP's behavior towards lynching him
I'd vote Drixx but that would bring people willing to vote there to 4, and I'm not comfortable ending the day yet.

[Gamma Emerald]

Honestly it feels more like a Drixx + PP team trying to do distancing, looking at PP's behavior towards lynching him
I'd vote Drixx but that would bring people willing to vote there to 4, and I'm not comfortable ending the day yet.

How does me wanting to vote Drixx at a level that would end the day come across as distancing?

"I'll do it if you do it" reads as trying to stall out voting him. Honestly it reads scummy either way, as even if Drixx is town it's provoking Lime to vote him so he can have deniability.

[Gamma Emerald]

I ISOed DH/Lime since I have been getting the feeling Lime is town and I think I know why. Both of them make very sensical points. So Lime is being considered town for now, which leaves me with two teams being considered at this point with both involving Drixx. Therefore I'm feeling Drixx should be the lynch today, even if not now. I'll vote once PP is offline for sure.

[Gamma Emerald]

It's probably my least confident townread out of my 3, but it's still fairly strong, like at least 60 percent certainty. Also,
VOTE: Drixx

[Gamma Emerald]

I kinda wanna hear your doubts about your read,I promise I won't laugh or anything.

[Gamma Emerald]

I think I see what you're saying, it's that you feel like he's been coming from the same perspective as you, but it's possible he's been leeching off of your perspective?

[Gamma Emerald]

Massclaim anyone? I think it sounds good for right now

[Gamma Emerald]

Innocent child Day 3

I don't really care since you're obvtown but that's 100% not possible, those types are auto-reveal and nothing was released day 3 that announced you were town.
And I believe just 1 or 2 of us hasn't claimed.

[Gamma Emerald]

Wait why don't you think it can be me

[Gamma Emerald]

That makes sense in parts, specifically the part where you say you would have been MLed in that scenario, so even though some of it I don't get I understand as a whole.

[Gamma Emerald]

You having it narrowed down makes sense
The thing between scum not hammering me and me being scum is a bit confusing since iirc both penguin and drixx were itinerant when the nancy wagon rose
Me joining a PP wagon is a very unlikely proposition in any situation given my read on him until recently so that doesn't make much sense as a point
As I said the point about you being MLed made sense
And I'm not sure why Grendel is also out honestly but I'll put it on "he would have probably switched onto me day 3" for now

[Gamma Emerald]

I've decided a course of action for now. I'm going to see if PP had the opportunity to turn the tables on me day 3.
Also I would like a Halloween avatar for this year. Only requirement is that it's pokemon related.

[Gamma Emerald]

PP seems to have had no such opportunity but it's not as clear cut as I would have liked so I guess I must go deeper, probably by ISOing the scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Well my computer decided to devour a longpost devoted to breaking down Korts/Drixx's interactions and how they related to the current situation so here's what I had

Korts made many posts that were giving guidance to PS (PP) that had things I'd expect to be brought up in scum chat
I feel Korts treatment of Robb in the Robb/Eddie feud is possibly pointing towards discrediting as a motive in those interactions
The situation where Robb replaced out could have gone down with Robb either working it out or just getting super pissed so it's not helpful

So yeah fuck my computer with a cactus. General gist is not much came out of it but from what did I think Robb/Math comes out a bit worse. nancy next I guess?

[Gamma Emerald]

that turned up nothing, maybe VCA will help

[Gamma Emerald]

Just realized VCA probably won't work either, blah. Issue is that Eddie and Robb's slot were crossing like the entire game, no matter who it was (except maybe GR who did next to nothing).

[Gamma Emerald]

I just realized we probably won't have PP around for most of the day and honestly I don't want to wait so I'ma just drop the hammer. If it's scum great town wins, if it's town and I live I'm going to take one last look at the game, if it's town and I die I'd advise people to not rush LyLo.
VOTE: PenguinPower

[Gamma Emerald]

Alright time to effort again I guess

[Gamma Emerald]

Debating if Drixx or Nancy trying to pull my heartstrings too.

Bit curious how these names came up here
fyi I'm going through day 3 finding things I find curious

Ginngie seems to be claiming watcher in a scenario where one mislynch will win the game for mafia. Let's note that watcher and cop are both powerful investigatives. It's highly unlikely we're seeing both even with the cop having a nerf.

VOTE: GammaEmerald

One of Gamma and/or Ginngie is scum.

One person unclaimed/Ginngie and/or nancy are scum.

Will explain more no lunch break today.

So looking at the info after this the second part seems informed by Ginngie's information. What about the first part? afaict it seems based on me having inferred Ginngie was a watcher-type role, but why does it result in that dichotomy?
Also I might look to the final Titus wagon because I get the feeling the VCs are giving me another hint (the first one being to be wary of OMGUS)

Gamma when you get back I'd really like it if you could go over your Grendel/Korts/Eddie reads for me because those are the ones I understand least from you; I have some pretty specific concerns there but I'd like it if you ran me through what each of your reads there is / how you got there before I go into more detail on that. If you think the flips have affected your read at all I'd like it if you talked about that / why too.

Yaknow this post gives me the feeling that nancy is trying to talk me out of certain reads

Think that's all the notes I have for now but I might have fucked up a bit by ISOing nancy a fuckton, will go back to d2 lynch wagon and look for clues

[Gamma Emerald]

Not quoting anything specifically because I'd rather not dredge up memories, but the Titus/Mathblade conflict was so obviously town that it was shocking that people scumread it. How far did they really think that the Titus siblings would go to towntell over something like that?

Civilization Mafia Mafia:

Votecount 2.50:

Titus (6): Gamma Emerald, nancy, Ginngie, Tchill13, Mathblade, humaneatingmonkey
humaneatingmonkey (3): Dark Horse, Grendel, Drixx
Tchill13 (2): massive, Game Replacement
Mathblade (0):
Game Replacement (0):
nancy (0):
Drixx (0):
Grendel (0):
massive (0):
Gamma Emerald (0):
Ginngie (0):
Dark Horse (0):

Not Voting: Titus

With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.

The deadline has once again been reset to just below 48 hours.
The day has begun and will end in (expired on 2017-09-01 23:00:00).

Spoiler: Remaining Posts:

Drixx: 50
Ginngie: 43
humaneatingmonkey: 35
Game Replacement: 61
Gamma Emerald: 9
Mathblade: 2
Grendel: 54
massive: 58
Dark Horse: 50
Titus: 71
nancy: 63
Tchill13: 35

No one went over! Yay!
Also, holy crap making votecounts takes so long with all the added baggage for the vote restriction thing.

So my theory is that like in Civ, the mafia were pushing Titus to keep monkey alive as a possible vig. That means if I'm right Math should be the last one. However Drixx is off so I'm going to look at context of votes here to finalize whether this theory is accurate.

[Gamma Emerald]

post 1749 has an issue but I'm having trouble posting so I'll get to it later

[Gamma Emerald]

Civilization Mafia Mafia and my last game ends in a

Mafia

win!

LAST GAME?

[Gamma Emerald]

Also I think massive might have been super on point this game so props to him