Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)
- Gamma Emerald
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Hello everyone. Hope we can work well this game.
Robbnva it's nice to see you, haven't played with you since mini 1831, where you played as JFSF.
Of course, can't forget to mention mah boi Grendel, how've you been doing?
I noticed TChill claimed vig but not his kill, I see these possibilities for TChill's position at first glance:
>scum
>town who targeted the jailkeeper's target
>some odd and probably stupid scenario
As for scumreads, didn't like PS early, think Korts might be scum from more recent things, and that's about it.
Will work on in-depth coverage of the game soonish.<Embrace The Void>
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Page 1 thoughts:
Persephone's entry feels forced, like they tried to make a big point but fell flat. Robbnva is probably town by reaction; he tries to parse it logically.
Page 2:
HEM seems town at a glance, I noted he went from "I'm gonna observe" to interacting, which feels like town who wanted to try something but got bored.
Massive and TChill switching off PS for Robb feels rather scummy to me
Page 3:
Korts' monkey vote is pretty bad imo, tbh he doesn't seem to be actually scumhunting, just poking at easy targets
PS is feeling a little better, but the vote switches off of them make me wary.
Reads based on content thus far:
Town: Monkey, Robbnva
Scum: Korts
Leanscum: TChill, massive
Nullscum: PS
PEdit: that's kinda cool. BTW I think your advice about sticking to less games so I could apply myself is pretty good, I'm in a few games but I am mostly just playing around one game per site I play on. Only one that defies this is Mafia Universe and even then I'm in very few there due to game speed being faster. I thought it was going to be horrible but it's not too bad. Actually managed to mechanically break a game!<Embrace The Void>
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Page 4 thoughts:
nancy seems like town starting out, and btw I think this is going to be my first time having to sort nancy by herself since the last time she was in a hydra (GiF's UPick).
Thinking if Korts is scum maybe TChill wouldn't be and vice versa. Might be wrong but the interactions here feel too pushy to be SvS right now.
Also TChill's explanation of his vote switch is okay but feels kinda hollow for some reason.@TChill you're reason for not agreeing with the way the PS wagon was built was that you felt Robb built it to try to get towncred right?
Page 5:
Kabooseslot (believe this is Grendel) gets townpoints for their analysis of the PS wagon switch situation, the argument feels on point and I agree a fair amount.
PS' posting about how town is hard feels like it is genuine, based on how they talk about being read as scum being more of a badge of honor than being calling incompetent. Also lol "no squidding idea" can I get a woomy?
Upon further appraisal all the early things I had issues with TChill, massive, and PS about seem to be explained by this page. So PS walks away with a solid townread, TChill gets a variable weak townread, and massive is around null.
Reads at this point:
Town: PS (Eddie), Robbnva, monkey
Leantown: Kaboose (Grendel), nancy
Nulltown: TChill
Scum: Korts
Also I like this format because I can make jokes while not expanding my postcount with each one. I hope I can stick with it.
Probably my last post for the night.
Null: massive<Embrace The Void>
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Page 6 thoughts:
TChill's look over Ginngie's ISO makes me curious.Ginngie, why did you say it was dumb to scumread Korts?
massive is feeling pretty nice on this page.
Page 7:
Ginngie feels a bit sketchy with how he's explaining his post about people scumreading Korts being stupid. My issue is that it implies Korts did something worth townreading, but Ginngie seems to not actually be showing that.
Assemble's reads feel kinda crap too.
Page 8:
Assemble's Robb reasoning is alright but why would he just gloss over that?
TChill's erraticness doesn't feel like it's scummy to me.
massive was looking kinda poor on the page but closer analysis shows that I was reading his posts wrong. His posts are actually pretty good.
Page 9:
Ari's reaction to the vote on him is SHITE and I'm happy everyone else gets this.
And not much else.
Page 10:
Korts shows his age by not knowing Godfather is blacklisted in Normals
Eddie is okay so far
Reads at this point:
Town: Eddie, Robbnva, monkey
Leantown: Kaboose (Grendel), nancy
Nulltown: TChill, massive
Nullscum: Assembler
Leanscum: Aristophanes, Ginngie
Scum: Korts<Embrace The Void>
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Page 11 Thoughts:
Ginngie's pushes here feel horrendous
I think TChill's suggestion to everyone else to look at low content people pushing him was made assuming he'd be lynched
And also the setup for one of my personal favorite tells (regardless of success rate) has appeared so that's fun
Page 12:
Eddie feels pretty good now that he's trying, really wish Robb could drop the tunnel.
Page 13:
@Korts: your case on TChill feels a bit like trying to come up with scum reasoning for every post, which feels forced. What was the intention here?
Still not a lot on the read change front.<Embrace The Void>
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- Gamma Emerald
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That was made before that post and I was doing other things between when I wrote it and when I posted it fyi
Also to try and improve my play I'm going to not talk about what I think of that post yet. I have the issue of getting sidetracked in catch-up phases by responding to current things, so I want to curb that here since I'm working on my incessant posting too.<Embrace The Void>
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Page 14 thoughts:
Not much actually unless you want me to talk about my predecessor which is the most noteworthy thing. Guess I am still liking Teech, his scumreads are aligning fairly well with mine minus Korts which I'm kinda curious about tbh
@Chilly why were you townreading Korts?
Page 15:
Ginngie at it again with calling Korts obvtown with no reasoning provided.
Page 16:
Robb's "town doesn't shitpost" logic is so asinine but it's not scummy.
Also I find it ironic that one of the votecounts mentioned the prevalence of OMGUS reads in Civ when it's fairly common here too.
REALLY curious about Grendel being scum in Ginngie's opinion.@Ginngie what's up here?
Page 17:
Vecna's initial post feels alright. Reads look solidly constructed.
Tryhardmonkey is looks mighty fine to me.
Page 18:
Vecna's triangle reads looks fairly good. Also lol he had a 4chan Triforce moment<Embrace The Void>
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Page 19 thoughts:
TChill had what is probably some of his scummiest posting in this game here. So I might bump him down a level.
Can people say why they've been scumreading Grendel? I don't see it. He hasn't been the paragon of towniness but his slot has been giving me town vibes between both of them.
Page 20:
TChill claim is very fast. Anyone got something to say about this? I'd say it's town who knee-jerk claimed. Also I wonder who he wanted to shoot n1 seeing as he said he had decided here.
Korts' read list is mostly okay but the Robb/Eddie reads give me the feeling he wants to keep that option open for later.
Reads update since I haven't had one of these in a while:
Town: Eddie, Robb, monkey, TChill
Leantown: Grendel, Vecna (some good moments but not enough to cement it)
Nultown: nancy, massive
Nullscum: Assembler
Scum: Ginngie, Korts (have not been feeling good about Korts recently)<Embrace The Void>
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Page 21 thoughts:
Vecna and Ginngie's interactions push them further into the read categories they are already in. And that's literally the whole page.
Page 22:
Same as before, but Korts steps into the fray looking like he's buttering up TChill (lol the irony) and I don't believe Vecna asked massive any questions. He also gives Vecna a lot of crap for a unstated L-1 that never happened, and was thought to happen because he fakevoted. Looks like a setup to me.
Page 23:
Vecna says Ginngie is trying to be a Wisdom clone by not reading which actually strengthens my Ginngie scumread a bit, because of how I managed to get Wisdom as scum once. It was noted earlier he was acting like he was current but in his words didn't seem to be. I caught Wisdom for about the same thing.
Page 24:
Monkey's reaction to Vecna's claim feels meh. Addressing this now, Vecna wasn't that high in votes when he claimed I think so it was kinda stupid imo.
Not gonna make a full list but I'm bumping monkey down to leantown because not as strong at this point and him being a bit sketchy on page 24.<Embrace The Void>
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Page 25:
Don't think Vecna blocked TChill so either he didn't shoot, he shot Vecna's target, he shot Vecna (which is horrible), or he is scum. 3 and 4 can coincide fyi.
Grendel's saying to leash Teech is pretty cool from him. Also, looking forward to Vecna's response as he's had some fun times with leashing "vigs".
Also mafia vigs are blacklisted, very likely due to how they promote a lot of swing and make it very dangerous once the game gets close to lylo.
Page 26:
SKs are actually advised to not claim vig unless tracked/watched fyi
Page 27:
Human's claim is so disappointing but I'm definitely thinking it is a town one. His progression to it feels really genuine.
Page 28:
My suspicions of Ginngie and Korts are still strong
Page 29:
Ginngie is just being loud :/
Page 30:
Assemble wagon nice, gonna be looking at it later I think
Page 31:
quick analysis says the Assembler wagon could be telling if certain other players were online then. TChill I want you to vig Assembler tonight. This isn't an order, just a suggestion, as I feel it can help sort things.<Embrace The Void>
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Reads right now
Conftown: Vecna
Town: Eddie, Robb, monkey, TChill
Leantown: Grendel
Nultown: nancy, massive
Null: Dark Horse (haven't really seen too much of them tbh, might be UTR mafia)
Nullscum: Assembler
Scum: Ginngie, Korts
Also gonna be multiquoting for the bulk of Day 2's content. This likely means I'm leaving the page divisions. I'll be trying to use lines to make things clearer if I don't have a quote to go with my response to something.<Embrace The Void>
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Posts through page 34
I feel like this is a good point and am bumping nancy up a tier.In post 778, massive wrote:I got one note before being torn away by work -- Nancy is probably town for 583; I can't see picking "Vecna is a flat-out liar" as a hill you want to die on if you're scum and he's just claimed jailkeeper.
Which baffles me as to why TChill didn't shoot him.In post 786, Dark Horse wrote:I mean I'm guessing the last minute wagon was due to the face that assembler has done so little that there wouldn't be that many people opposed to his lynch. It was pretty clearly a desperation wagon in an attempt to stop a no lynch after how split town was.
I already talked about why I think monkey's scum but basically the way he claimed feels off, the way he's been omgusing slots was wack, his last minute switch on vecna felt fake, and I really don't like the huge double standard korts had between monkey and vecna's claims.
Assembler's play feels more Vig bait.
Actually this statement makes sense from town him. What's the deal with his vote placement though?In post 787, Tchill13 wrote:
VOTE: GrendelIn post 640, Grendel wrote:@Tchill
Can you publicly submit a pool of players you intend to shoot in tonight?
Will make it easier to confirm your kill tomarrow.
With his vote placement in mind and the fact that he made this statement I feel that Grendel is scum.
This now needs to die: this is a scummy pop-in, which is when a mafia makes a vote and doesn't do much else while lurking or generally being inactive.In post 818, Assemblerotws wrote:My play so far would have drawn a vigkill, I now realize. If TChill did not shoot me, I highly doubt his claim.
VOTE: TChill
Thanks for explaining. I can see this mindset, though I 100% would have vigged Assembler.In post 823, Tchill13 wrote:I did not use my ability and I am not claiming one shot. I wasn't gonna kill a townie on accident on top of the fact that we had already given scum a free kill because of the no lynch.Korts coming in with the terrible vote.
<Embrace The Void>
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Rest of the posts to nowIn post 865, massive wrote:
None of us believe you're a vig. BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T VIG ANYONE. Jeezus.In post 860, Tchill13 wrote:"even if I'm town it's not sure I'd be killed at this point" lol. Yeah scums gonna leave the pr alive that can kill them. That's laughable. If you don't believe I'm a vig then you should believe I'm scum. It's as simple as that.
This is bad but not necessarily scummy. Just a bit of cognitive dissonance I think.In post 866, massive wrote:Like, honestly, why would Mafia kill you if you actually ARE town? You're too terrified to actually shoot. You're just a named townie.
Now it's time to address this. I don't like it. He seems to be painting the people voting PS as scum no matter who they are.In post 893, Korts wrote:Okay, I'm finally sitting down to recalibrate. I'm gonna have to do this in portions though, because I have a bunch of other shit to deal with too.
VOTE: unvote
Reread notes - page 1-3 - The Percy wagon builds up
- Robb's post 14, after Percy repeated her silly first vote reason in an intentionally silly way, is way too serious and immediate a response (coming within 5 minutes of Percy's post). Then Percy's appeal to RVS is dismissed with some boggling logic in 16.
This is the molehill at the bottom of the mountain that was the Percy vs. Robb fight, and even though I agree with Dark Horse's 18 that Percy's dismissal of Robb sounded forced, I think Robb's reply is even more so - "you didn't RVS" is already a pretty unjustified argument, because RVS is a game state that dictates arbitrary voting, and not any individual action, which means that any vote in RVS is, by definition, participation in RVS; and the follow-up argument of "when you don't RVS you need to make sense" is just downright empty rhetoric.
This could just be Robb trying to move the game forward, but it's a very shaky foundation to have started building on.
- Based on just this initial exchange, Kaboose and Dark Horse immediately jump on Percy's wagon, which I find weird. When I was first reading through this exchange, I automatically parsed it as town v. town, but if I had to choose a less defensible side, it would be Robb's. (I say less defensible instead of scummy, because again, this is early game activity.)
- Meanwhile, Tchill's post 20 does not take a side in the Percy/Robb spat, but does riff on Percy's silly "we must have blood" reason to start an unrelated wagon on monkey. Nancy immediately takes a mediating role between Robb and Percy, asking both to elaborate on their positions. monkey puts additional pressure on Percy, and asks Robb seemingly pointed questions (though when I ask him about it, he seems to echo Robb's reasoning instead of questioning it). Then he gets gratingly cocky in response to Ginggie's townAF read on him - "how much do you trust that read" still rubs me wrong, even if Ginggie's post warranted questions itself.
- massive and Tchill jump on Percy, both of them just openly riding the wagon.
- Percy's defense against Robb in 42 is sound. In response, Robb doubles down on his bullshit logic in 45, and gets immediate heat from massive and Tchill, who are voting together in immediate succession again.
- monkey makes cases on Percy and Tchill, changes vote to Tchill, then a couple posts later back to Percy. His case against Percy is pretty weak though, as it's built on the "it was a real reason, not a joke reason" argument, when, come on - how the fuck do you read "we must have blood" as a real reason?
Tomorrow, I will be examining the Tchill wagon's development.
The catch-up shift is to reserve my posts for when I'm directly interacting with players. Though I do like this quite I bit as I've said.In post 903, Grendel wrote:
Does this also explain the catch up shift?In post 887, Gamma Emerald wrote: PEdit: that's kinda cool. BTW I think your advice about sticking to less games so I could apply myself is pretty good, I'm in a few games but I am mostly just playing around one game per site I play on. Only one that defies this is Mafia Universe and even then I'm in very few there due to game speed being faster. I thought it was going to be horrible but it's not too bad. Actually managed to mechanically break a game!
I don't think I've ever seen you do catch up in such a methodical manner. o.o
Ideally this will be a precursor that you'll be playing a more content rich game. Tbh a lot of the games we had together where you were active lurking wasn't fun for me. Maybe it will make you easier to sort as well.
RE: Monkey: Yeah the thing at the beginning isn't enough to go that high at this point but there's also the way they claimed.In post 905, Grendel wrote:
Why is Moneky top town read for an interaction he made almost ten pages ago? Can you go back and justify this when you get caught up?In post 891, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Reads at this point:
Town: Eddie, Robbnva, monkey
Leantown: Kaboose (Grendel), nancy
Nulltown: TChill, massive
Nullscum: Assembler
Leanscum: Aristophanes, Ginngie
Scum: Korts
I'm really not feeling Monkey as town here.
I don't want to interrupt your catch up mind set, but Rob's day play is usually like that.Korts wrote: This is pretty much the peak of the Percy wagon, then Tchill starts taking off on the next page. At this point of the reread, Robb is coming off as deliberately obtuse in pursuit of Percy's wagon, while monkey is enabling the bullshit. Tchill looks like he's sheeping massive. Out of all this, monkey's behavior is still the one making me most uncomfortable. I'm gonna keep reading tomorrow, but right now, I feel like I really shouldn't have let go of the monkey scum read so easily. Robb is the second scummiest in these first three pages, especially in connection with monkey.
Tomorrow, I will be examining the Tchill wagon's development.
I won't requote what Others/I said previously, but I want a direct response to those points regarding Rob once you hit the in your read through.
However I do endorse any and all Monkey sheeps tho Korts. <3
Pre Edit
@Gamma
What do you think of Gingie's IC cliam?
I thought it was a stupid D1 gambit at first, but she doubled down on it recently. I'm not sure what to think if she does end up not being an IC. Anyways, for the time being I think she is not good lynch pool material.
RE: Ginngie: I figured it was NAI fakeclaiming. I do agree Ginngie isn't a good lynch for now, I prefer Korts or Assembler. I will state that IC doesn't much qualify as a "power role" since you/the mod just do the thing and then you are the same as if you were innoed by a cop.
Thank you but that's not the case. I almost never come in pushing something as a replacement, and most of the time I catch up like I have (though with less compression). If Vecna were still alive he'd tell you himself he's seen me do it as scum.In post 915, humaneatingmonkey wrote:Hi. I've been prodded. I should really start declaring V/LAs.
I like how Gamma Emerald went in. It's a town entrance. Instead of coming in with an obvious agenda, he took time to read through the thread and move on from there. Definitely town.<Embrace The Void>
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Between Korts and Assembler I'd rather
VOTE: Korts
for 2 reasons
1) his lynch isn't being led by one of my scumreads
2) we haven't had a major wagon on him yet so this will make VCA that happens later more useful imo.<Embrace The Void>
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Don't see any mod proof.In post 919, Ginngie wrote:I'm an IC dumbass
To eddie: for me, it's not meta that's making the townread, it's how genuine his pushes have felt to me.<Embrace The Void>
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Robbnva I want you to put aside your tunnel for a second and tell me what you think of this post alone.In post 116, PersephoneSidekick wrote:
Basically, I did an "omg who the hell even is scum" reread after a day away and just sort of imagined myself as scum writing the posts that different people wrote and it fit the best. I didn't evenIn post 114, Sunlit Diamond wrote:Howdy folks!
What exactly is going on here? In your post 72, which was your last post in the game prior to this one, you were townreading Korts for the exact same reason. Now you scumread him based on a projection if your own habits...and in the same post criticize TChill for flipping his vote. Contradictions, thy name is Persephone. Can you explain what was going on there to makeIn post 91, PersephoneSidekick wrote:I think I still haven't done a good job explaining my thought process for the stuff that got me wagonned but it's not really that important so I'm just going to let it go.
I buy that Tchill's vote switch could have been a slip. Scum motivation: just trying to lynch somebody and forgetting your previous positions (less than two hours later!) because you don't really mean them. Town motivation: changing your mind as you see things without worrying about seeming consistent because you only care about finding the answer. Being willing to call your own actions scummy if you think you're part of a scummy wagon, because even though you know you're town you recognize you did something scummy and are willing to point that out to make progress. Conclusion: kind of shockingly sloppy as scum but slips happen. But if he can explain their switch to my satisfaction, I'd call it actively towny.
Bleh I have too many townreads. I actually kind of scumread Korts on tone/structure which is unfortunate because he's also the most helpful person. But like he'saggressivelyhelpful? Basically he reminds me of the "scumhunting" I did as scum in my last game. Jumping in early and responding to everything, trying to have lots of things to say when there doesn't exist much to say yet. I could vanity wagon him for it but I don't have that kind of confidence. I think I'll VOTE: Tchill because I really do want to force them to explain themself.youchange your mind?
Also your scumread of Korts and TChill's scumread of Korts are reverberating in my head. You two aren't scumreading him for the exact same reason, but both of them look like attempts to make good behavior look bad, and that's curious to me, mostly because I don't think it's likely you and TChill are both scum.lookat my own previous posts; I just read the stuff I missed and the isos of all the active people. I feel kind of silly now, and even less sure of myself obviously. I just if I spend all my time trying to be consistent and not look bad that will totally bias my thinking and I won't be able to actually come up with anything real.
I just have no squidding idea who is scum in this game. I have nothing. And I'm going to stop before I get into some sort of self-pitying rant about how I'm not good enough for newbie games. But like the reason I sound fake to everybody is that I'm trying to join a new community and fit in at the same time as I'm trying to solve a mystery and trying to decide which of my hypothetical new friends is trying to trick me. I just can't make my brain do those both at once very well.
Honestly playing scum was so much easier because all I had to do was get people to trust me. But now I'm going to be all sorts of things "town would never do" because I'm trying my best and don't know better. But I'm going to get lynched if I keep trying to pretend there's some deeper master plan to my inept flailings; it feels better to be read as scum than seen as incompetent but my wincon demands that I suck it up and admit to my actual stupid thought processes when people ask.<Embrace The Void>
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@Robb most recent one. Not including your vote, Korts has two while Eddie has none.In post 875, RadiantCowbells wrote:
Civilization Mafia Mafia:
Votecount 2.36:
humaneatingmonkey (4): Dark Horse, Sunlit Diamond, Grendel, Eddie Cane
Tchill13 (2): massive, Assemblerotws
Eddie Cane (1): Robbnva
Assemblerotws (1): Ginngie
Korts (1): Tchill13
Robbnva (0):
Grendel (0):
massive (0):
Sunlit Diamond (0):
Ginngie (0):
nancy (0):
Dark Horse (0):
Not Voting: nancy, humaneatingmonkey, Korts
With 12 alive it's 7 to lynch.
The day has begun and will end in (expired on 2017-08-29 23:00:00).
Seeking replacement for Sunlit Diamond.
Spoiler: Remaining Posts:<Embrace The Void>
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I'm townreading it for the fact they provided the insight about being scumread being better than being called incompetent.In post 949, Robbnva wrote:@gamma that post is just AtE garbage. Why can't scum make that post? Why does it make that slot town?
Let's ignore how obviously scummy PS was. What has Eddie done that's town?
@eddie. If you are town you are more annoying. You Troll the fucking game and get mad cause somebody scum reads you for it.
As for Eddie I think your logic there is way off, as I've noted earlier. I absolutely disagree that shitposting is not a town behavior. Plus I feel their effort was really towny, but I don't have the exact details for that yet.
And yeah being condescending is a problem. I remember you got lynched in Mini 1831 for pretty much that. It basically kills your charisma, meaning people won't want to work with you.<Embrace The Void>
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Initial promiseIn post 264, Eddie Cane wrote:I'll read the thread tomorrow or tonight
Here's the startIn post 286, Eddie Cane wrote:
maybe you're just scumIn post 24, Robbnva wrote:You do realize the R in rvs means random right? He voted me for a game related reasons so asking him to explain himself and make sense is appropriate.<Embrace The Void>
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You mean this? I can't tell what he means.In post 287, Eddie Cane wrote:
unless you areIn post 15, PersephoneSidekick wrote:Dude, it's RVS; why are you expecting me to make sense?<Embrace The Void>
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Exactly, THANK YOU.In post 970, Dark Horse wrote:Robb vs eddie continyes to be a waste of time and is leading town away from people who are actually scummy. Both of you cut it. Robb quit trying to justify yourself with the same "B-b-but I've caught scum!" Eddie quit claiming that we need to get robb lynched just because he's tunneling you<Embrace The Void>
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If we get another no lynch you are 100% to blame then.In post 973, Robbnva wrote:So stop trying to talk to me. If you don't care what I have to say, stop trying to get my thoughts.
I'm only voting Eddie today. If that doesn't fit your own agenda fuck off<Embrace The Void>
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He replaced out because you were being irrational and toxic.In post 990, Robbnva wrote:People shouldn't quit just cause they are scumread. Town or scum it's a crappy thing to do.<Embrace The Void>
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I'm gonna stop you there. I know Grendel and I'm fairly certain he's town. Plus if I'm remembering right your reason for scumreading Kaboose may have been poor.In post 997, massive wrote:Grendel is Kaboose and I was happy voting Kaboose yesterday. Maybe a little dig into Grendel is in order.<Embrace The Void>
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Okay so this isn't exactly what I thought but it's somewhat close. He's saying Kaboose is scum for what seems to be not looking for the answers and shading him with questions. I think this is a bit unfair seeing as iirc massive got upset because he was going one post at a time. If that was the case it makes sense he missed the answers.In post 119, massive wrote:
I've already said I was content with 42-44, AND I've already said why I voted Robb, so I assume you'll get to it since you appear to be catching up on oh 4 pages one post at a time. And who said I needed to make a valid case? And who said being condescending is alignment-indicative?In post 95, Kaboose wrote:Why do you think being condescending is alignment indicative? How is this a valid case to make? This was your third post in the game and third different vote. Did you have a reason to quit liking the Perse wagon for this?
Huh, nope, you didn't follow up your own questions with the answers, just left it to look like I didn't answer them already, and then made a scumread based off of it.
VOTE: Kaboose
Ginngie come actually play this game.<Embrace The Void>
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Oops missed half of your stuff to me.
Ginngie didn't have a vote on them so I didn't feel like pushing them.
As for the off-site game that was a whoops, probably because your name was different.
BTW you gonna play the new closed standard Grendel/Aquila has up?<Embrace The Void>
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I feel like the things Korts is choosing to push are being pushed for scum gain. I'll go in-depth at some point soon, likely within 24 hours.In post 1021, nancy wrote:What do you mean by towny / poor angles? Not sure I understand you there; definitely need more from you than just a cursory one-word take on his content so far - he's produced more substantive content than a lot of players here right now including me so I don't feel like there should be any real lack of ability to talk about why on your read there; think if you're town here you need to do a lot more work in showing how you're getting to your reads because I'm not really seeing that from you right now. I'm not really feeling too much better about you than your predecessor although your treatment of Robbnva overall has been pretty decent I think; a lot of my concerns are just that I don't really understand your pushes / the progression on your reads so that's definitely something I'd like addressed - what do you dislike about the Tchill vote? Why are you townreading Tchill aside from the claim? Why are you townreading Grendel in particular as strongly as you are? Don't understand the move from lean town in 913 to basically telling people not to scumhunt him in 999? If you could run through that for me that would be pretty helpful.
Thanks for the invite but I'm not really visiting the site anymore + am overgamed and not into mafia at all right now after ~1-2 things that happened recently so I don't think I'll take you up on it sorry; doubt I'll be joining any more games anywhere for the time being except maybe on MU if I see a playerlist that I really like; if I do play one here it'll 100% be in a hydra with someone like Prism/Plotinus/mastina who I really enjoy spending time with / feel understood by.
Also I wasn't in GiF's game I don't think unless you're referring to something else.
Other than the claim, I think I am townreading TChill for some of his reads he's made. There's also the votes from Assembler and Korts that make him very likely town imo.
I'm not necessarily saying "don't scumhunt Grendel", I'm just trying to guide massive on his read on him. Also massive credited a thought I had to Grendel exclusively and pushed him with this.
You were in Democracy in GiF's game.<Embrace The Void>
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So no grudges held, sweet!In post 1024, Ginngie wrote:
She probably doesn't remember that because when a traumatic event happens, you tend to have no memory of it because you don't want to remember it.In post 1023, Gamma Emerald wrote:You were in Democracy in GiF's game.
All I know is that we signed up for that game, anything else, couldn't tell ya what happened >_>
<Embrace The Void>
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Wait whatIn post 1029, nancy wrote:I get that Tchill and the fact that you didn't shoot last night isn't really one of my concerns with you right now personally (you couldn't have shot anyway since you were jailed by Vecna) just as long as you understand that probably the biggest reason why you're not scum here is that you've claimed Vigilante - if you're not shooting that becomes pretty problematic. You're right that it's not something that needs to be talked about because it's irrelevant as soon as you do shoot but that does absolutely need to happen and arguing that you don't want to shoot tonight because you might hit town isn't really acceptable here; does that make sense? Basically just wanting to make sure that you confirm your role here so we don't have to worry about your slot anymore.<Embrace The Void>
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Resonding to monkey:
"I think Gamma is misrepresenting Korts in his page 3 analysis. He had no way to know or think that I'm an easy target at that point." Maybe you weren't an easy target but you were certainly not anyone worth pushing at that point.
"Gamma reads Grendelslot as town simply because he agrees with him. Pet peeve." That's wrong, I believe Grendel's play here comes from his towngame.
"Actually, Gamma's reads were unsatisfactory still becaue it didn't go into the details of why things are good or bad or okay. Some of it was even irrelevant to the gamestate now." Well yeah some might be but I wanted to show my thought process as I was reading.
"Gamma, can you elaborate on why you townread me? Because I don't think I have been playing as an obvtown this game so you dimissing me as town without paranoia is suspicious." Basically your beginning play and your claim are what make it solid.
"#910
Gamma, why were you reading Vecna's as leantown?" Because his reads felt genuine. I did initially take issue with him sasying he agreed with Korts' reads but apparently that turned around once the readslist was posted by Korts.
"#916
Gamma has a good catch about massive's #778. But since nancy is already town by consensus, any read that glorifies her makes me feel like it's either genuine or seeking towncred. So I don't think that will make me bump massive up. However, Gamma seeing this from massive makes me put on some towncred on him." Wait can you explain what you mean here?
"Gamma, what do you think about #823 now that I've pointed out that TChill voted him as soon as the Day 2 starts? Do you smell inconsistency?" Not really, the vote was just "let's finish what we started" in my eyes.
"#974
Gamma, I can see what you mean, but do you also mean that you don't think Eddie can be a leading wagon?" I think that the mindset Robb was showing was indictive of a possible split in votes that would result in a no lynch
"#989
Why were you open to lynch Eddie, a townread, just to pocket Robb into lynching Korts? That's bad. That's very bad." I was trying to ensure that I had someone pushing with me the next day, as well as carrying the torch if I got nightkilled.
"#999
What was the reason for preventing someone from reading someone in depth? Wouldn't that benefit town? Still bad." Um you still want me to answer this?
"#1023
"I'm just trying to guide massive on his read on him." Why did you feel the need to do that, Gamma?" Because I felt massive wasn't really giving him a fair shake.
In other news:
Welcome to GR! How much have you read? Any reads yet? I think you're town but people are lining up to lynch you.<Embrace The Void>
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VOTE: Korts
Goodbye. I looked over your post and your confession doesn't actually improve my read on you, plus that attack on Robb was just gross.
Although I do like the emerald replacing diamond note as a "haha cool thing" moment.
I think a lot of that post is pocketing btw, look at how many townreads he has.<Embrace The Void>
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I forgot I was. Still a good thing to reaffirm the location of my vote. Also you may not have voiced solid townreads but you look like you're trying to appease everyone. Plus the fact you said "I am left with Assembler" more or less says you're townreading all the others.In post 1113, Korts wrote:You have been voting me since the moment you were caught up. Since then, this is the second time you made it look like you were adding your vote to my wagon. Are you trying to create the illusion of momentum?
I have not made any townread declarations in that post.I think a lot of that post is pocketing btw, look at how many townreads he has.
I'll cover the Eddie read now: it's based on how Persephone talked about being scumread feeling better than being called incompetent. I highly doubt they would hae had such an organic perspective such as that as scum. I'll try to break down what I find towny about eddie's effort and TChill in a bit, but I can say that now. As for voting Eddie I just got fed up and felt that would help in some way, hopefully break Robb out of his tunnel and get him looking through a broader scope.In post 1114, nancy wrote:Will try to make some proper time for this game soon.
@Gamma still waiting on pretty much any meaningful response from you on your scumreads / reads in general; re 1023 townreading Tchill for some of the reads that he's made isn't something that I can make sense of without elaboration - would definitely like you to talk about what you mean there / which reads specifically you think he's had that he wouldn't have had as scum here; think that if you genuinely want to guide people to your reads then the way to do is going to be to talk about why / your reasoning - expecting people to just sheep your read because it's something you're saying they should believe in isn't going to get you very far at all in the best of circumstances.
Eddie read in particular is something that I'm struggling to see from you right now on top of what I've already brought up with you; don't understand at all how you go from having Eddie as a townread and telling Robb that his scumread there is wrong / Eddie's effort was town in 953 (really not understanding what "don't have the details for that yet" means there, please explain that) to saying that you wouldn't be upset if Eddie was vigged and that you can't recall anything from him that's pro-town in 1064, as well as what feels like a ton of dissonance in the sequence around 972/979 overall - not really finding your response to monkey in 1097 on that point particuarly sensible when the question there is about the stance of being open to lynch Eddie despite having stated pretty strongly (?) that you felt the slot was town, not your interaction with Robbnva - feels a little like a dodge from you there and your progression on the slot overall has been pretty troubling + haven't even heard what your reasoning for the townread was in the first place or what changed that; really need you to start being clear on your process there at this point please.
I feel your play is more reminiscent of your town play and less like your play in Doctor Who Mafia. I think you could still be scum but I think that would be an endgame paranoia read if I read you that way at all here. As for monkey I'm not sure whether or not I've explained it but I'll do it, and if I already had whatever it's an extra one.In post 1115, Grendel wrote:@Gamma
Since when have you town read me enough to hard defend me like this?In post 999, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I'm gonna stop you there. I know Grendel and I'm fairly certain he's town. Plus if I'm remembering right your reason for scumreading Kaboose may have been poor.In post 997, massive wrote:Grendel is Kaboose and I was happy voting Kaboose yesterday. Maybe a little dig into Grendel is in order.
You hold some degree of suspicion towards me even when you town read me when you are town. Like, you think I'm town vs this game where you talk like you know I'm town.
Its gets even weirder since I'm explicitly not among your strong town reads.
Speaking of which, you never got around to better verbalizing your monkey town read did you?
Not sure. What similarities do you see? Also, I don't think he'd be quite the same as you scumplay-wise from what I've seen of his scumgame so far (spectating his newbie game). I'll look over it if you can show a real connection and relevance, as I don't feel like one's there.In post 1116, Grendel wrote:@Gamma
Does Monkey remind you of my play in newbi 1734? Maybe even a tad?<Embrace The Void>
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Sweeping up things:
in nancy's post she says "I don't see how you could be okay with Eddie being vigged" and "I don't get you saying Eddie hasn't done anything pro-town": I was okay with him being vigged because I felt that would help town cohesion by removing Robb's main blockade to working with everyone else. As for not havig done anything pro-town but me townreading him: yeah he may not have actually had any actual protown influence on the game, but he has been towny. There's a significant difference. Honestly Eddie's behavior could be policy lynch worthy if you look at it from a certain angle.
As for TChill I'm not sure if I could find what I was referring to but I feel TChill's reads are based in actual things. His progression on the PS wagon initially looked poor but he explained later and it made sense. TChill initially wanted to get a wagon going which makes sense and I can see town motivation for. I recall in Large normal 204 I called Ginngie's(?) desire for dueling wagons between me and another player town even though it was a generally scummy concept because I could see the town drive there (they wanted to sort who chose whom to vote and their logic). BTW @Grendel this is also why I was townreading monkey early, he said he wanted to fuel the PS/Robb debate and see how it went which would seem scummy but makes sense from town because of the same reasoning I brought up from Ginngie(?) in Large normal 204. Then he switches to Robb because essentially he feels Robb is playing up the read which makes sense as well, since scum have to change the consideration on certain points to swing reads in their favor (based on mastina's teachings). I'll skip to later now with his reasons for not vigging anyone. He stated he didn't want to give scum another free kill after the no-lynch. While this premise is quite faulty as it's a town-controlled kill by nature, it makes sense as he could have been scared to shoot without a flip to base his target on.<Embrace The Void>
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More stuff (meant to include this but hit submit early by accident):
Eddies's effort: He looks a little scattered but I can see a direct line in his first 3 efforting posts (talking about the possibility of Robb being scum) that leads to his saying "unless you are" referring to Robb expecting RVS votes to make sense. Also his post with his reads summary is a good post imo as it shows decent consideration into the game's events.<Embrace The Void>
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I do see what you are talking about in your first paragraph. The interactions between the two slots did get vitriolic because of that one v one. In the second paragraph I see what you meant and yeah I didn't see anything that felt middle-of-the-roadish to me. I don't really agree that interacting in the present is a big town indicator. For me it's something I commonly do, and something I decided to not do here as I've noted it becomes detrimental at times, specifically in Real Folk Blues it kept me from reading through at a decent speed.
So, other than monkey, where are your reads at? I mostly want to see who you are considering lynching as we get close to deadline.
I'll do the monkey scumgame analysis soonish.<Embrace The Void>
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Why?In post 1136, Titus wrote:Who is down for lynching human and Robbna?<Embrace The Void>
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Not sure what "Wagons die when they get wagoned + they have counters" means.In post 1141, Titus wrote:
Wagons die when they get wagoned + they have counters, so I am curious there until people show up.In post 1140, Gamma Emerald wrote:
Why?In post 1136, Titus wrote:Who is down for lynching human and Robbna?<Embrace The Void>
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Responding to monkey's post.
Well he noted the chainsaw defense from Aristophanes so him/nancy would have been okay. Maybe TChill as well, as he agreed with you there.In post 1143, humaneatingmonkey wrote:
Who would you have thought was someone worth pushing at that point if you had been Korts? Where would you get that information from?Gamma Emerald's #1097 wrote:Maybe you weren't an easy target but you were certainly not anyone worth pushing at that point.
Grendel has a certain solvingness quality to his posts that he lacks when mafia I feel. Here he actually feels like he's trying to solve the game so he feels like town!him.
Can you please explain how that may be the case?Gamma Emerald's #1097 wrote:That's wrong, I believe Grendel's play here comes from his towngame.
I tried to put reasons as to why each read changed in each post but idk maybe I missed something.
Still didn't accomplish your goal because I had no idea how your brain decided which is good, bad, okay.Gamma Emerald's #1097 wrote:Well yeah some might be but I wanted to show my thought process as I was reading.
I've stated this apart but I don't think together. I feel your decision to fuel the 1 v 1 between PS and Robb, while it may have sent town through a dark path, was a town-motivated idea. Honestly looking at what I think about the post, it has TWTBAW notes. as for the claim, you don't seem like you're fakeclaiming PR as mafia since you are somewhat overt about you being a PR. That overtness could backfire if you were mafia.
Can you explain this so I know you're just not pocketing me?Gamma Emerald's #1097 wrote:Basically your beginning play and your claim are what make it solid.
He was concerned about giving mafia a kill. Did you not see him say that?
What motivation do you think TChill has for "finishing what we started" when he could have done that as a Vigilante last night?Gamma Emerald's #1097 wrote:Not really, the vote was just "let's finish what we started" in my eyes.
I was just worried about being killed for my reads. Guess it may have been irrational fear but I felt that way then.
What made you think that you were getting nightkilled any time soon? There are three PR claimers and one unanimous decision townread. I don't see that motivation genuinely coming from you unless you're bullshitting me right now.Gamma Emerald's #1097 wrote:I was trying to ensure that I had someone pushing with me the next day, as well as carrying the torch if I got nightkilled.
It felt like massive already made up his mind on Grendel based on Kaboose's content.
How would you infer that?Gamma Emerald's #1097 wrote:Because I felt massive wasn't really giving him a fair shake.
Yeah, it's basically ad hominem. Hmm, maybe there could be a logic for Eddie being scum in there. Why would Korts ad hominem if Eddie was town? I may have to look over what was being ad homed about.
Do you think that was alignment-indicative?Gamma Emerald's #1110 wrote:plus that attack on Robb was just gross.
Nope. Actually, I have a stupid idea for an alt based on that connection: "Moonglow Pearl" (since Sunlit Diamond is Pokémon Sun + Pokémon Diamond).
Sarcastic or no?Gamma Emerald's #1110 wrote:Although I do like the emerald replacing diamond note as a "haha cool thing" moment.
I believe scum wouldn't make that comment because it kinda seems like it's putting a "kick me" sign on yourself, saying to scumread them rather than call them incompetent town, which scum wouldn't want.
Good point. See, when you tell us why exactly, you'll get less dirty looks.Gamma Emerald's #1127 wrote:it's based on how Persephone talked about being scumread feeling better than being called incompetent. I highly doubt they would hae had such an organic perspective such as that as scum.
Honestly yeah, given all that I've said this is pretty much true. Both have had town motivations, but Robb had actually been putting in the work to solve the game.
So you townread Robb more than Eddie? Because you're willing to appease Robb by lynching Eddie so that you can get him to sheep you.Gamma Emerald's #1127 wrote:As for voting Eddie I just got fed up and felt that would help in some way, hopefully break Robb out of his tunnel and get him looking through a broader scope.
That he hasn't actually helped town in the slightest. He was just sitting there and looking cute.
What angle was this?Gamma Emerald's #1128 wrote:Honestly Eddie's behavior could be policy lynch worthy if you look at it from a certain angle.
This refers to TChill though.
I'm too lazy to scroll back to that point but I remember siding with Robb on that one and voting Percy. Are you wrong or am I wrong?Gamma Emerald's #1128 wrote:Then he switches to Robb because essentially he feels Robb is playing up the read which makes sense as well, since scum have to change the consideration on certain points to swing reads in their favor (based on mastina's teachings).<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”- Gamma Emerald
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivor
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@Monkey: I don't see myself as inconsistent. I'm just dawning on new perspectives as things go on.
I can't tell what TChill was thinking, ask him I guess. I've just been inferring based on what I've seen from his posts.
Robb was confbiased but he was still trying. Eddie wasn't actually contributing much to game progress.
And yeah I pretty much feel that way about Eddie.<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”- Gamma Emerald
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivor
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I can do Titus. Massive would be a "we need a lynch" vote.
Actually I think that lynching Titus would be more advisable than Korts at this juncture, mainly because the sum of the slots results in Titus coming out worse tbh.
VOTE: Titus<Embrace The Void>
“A flipped coin doesn't always land heads or tails. Sometimes it may never land at all...”- Gamma Emerald
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Gamma Emerald AnySurvivor
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