Large Normal 206: World Record Mafia! (GAME OVER)

[Mary Saotome]

I'd love for you to prove me wrong though. You know I would I only push because I believe in you.

[skirt skirt]

I feel like a lot of the points you've shown for you being town (Jail keeper how you keeping a strong man is so low) are points that can't be proven. The only thing that you have going for you is you asking to be vigged. I had a really really big tr on you based on town and how you've acted but I really can't tell if I'm being bias or maybe you knew what I tr. The one thing you've shown to sr eddie is the unba interaction and it feels like that's the one statement you've made.

If you asked me to vote based on any day before this I'd vote skirt in a heartbeat

but if you asked me to vote based on today alone I'd vote you in a heartbeat

He didn't ask to be vigged.

I would also feel really fucking bad if I mislynched her and I was wrong.

You know I won't hold any ill feelings if you suspect or lynch me as you would for another person? Not even if you're really paranoid of me.

I want to point out that it would be weird for me to be mafia because abandoning my whole team and trying to make it to the end by myself isn't really something I'm known for? And then realize that I would have somehow voted out my whole team without anyone really acknowledging that I've been voting for scum all game.

And then there's the part where I was suppsoed to be vigged yesterday, meaning if I'm scum I would have just lost or

gambled

on TwoInAMillion changing his shot. You'd think if I was bussing my team as a ploy to get town credit and make it to the end then maybe I'd try to bring some of that stuff up before getting shot by the vigilante?

I also think I claimed jailkeeper before everyone else had claimed so if that was a fake claim and I was a strongman I would have a reason to suspect there was another protective role in the game? And risk claiming into a situation where there's 3 protectives. I just don't think anything adds up to me being scum unless you think I'm playing a horrible game.

This was his defense, but in reality its bullshit. Particularly, third paragraph. He would've lost, sure. But I was the one suggesting to vig him, Tiam had already expressed discontent with me before, he had no opportunity to argue to change the shit and honestly had to chance it. What exactly could he have said? I've been directing the vigs and lynches for that matter most of the game, and it was my pool, and everyone agreed to it. He also tried to argue earlier that he would've jailed tiam, but that

literally outs him as scum

. That was not ever an option and is just him covering his ass.

Mary, why excactly would you have voted me over yumeko any other day? Post d1 he

literally has not posted content

. He's sheeped you once and otherwise has had no involvement in the game. Coasting scum. You've even acknowledged he's playing differently.

But, we want to talk about the vig. Okay.

{Dave, Massive, Flairs}
{Yumeko, Mary}
{Nero}

to be clear, these 6 are the vig pool hopefully minus our lynch nero. i think everyone should agree to these slots getting vigged considering they're all useless and different degrees of scummy.

Can people sum up what they are seeing in Flairs?

As it stands, I am highly against the list of targets that was proposed

The list of targets has 2 flipped scum and a third one unflipped. One of the three town there was getting lynched (nero). Wow. Guess what people there agreed to the vig pool? Nero, Mary, and Massive from memory. Guess who didn't comment on it? Dave and Flairs. Guess who the ONLY PERSON AGAINST IT WAS? Yumeko. So if your best defense is "vig", try the fuck again, because that's a huge red flag that Yumeko is just scum.

[skirt skirt]

Maybe I was just really really bias and I should take gerry's advice here although why would Yumeko be okay getting vig shot? BP maybe hm I don't know

I never answered this directly but if you don't see the answer for it in my walls lmk.

[Yumeko Jabami]

But I'd have gladly proven my jailkeep ability when I claimed it, we could have planned around me roleblocking the vigilante. People thought that even if I was a jailkeeper I could still be scum though so I didn't push for that.

I didn't ask to be vigged, I was against you being vigged .

Last day phase I actually voted for skirt skirt saying they asked to be jailkept and could have more than one strongman shot.

I'd love for you to prove me wrong though. You know I would I only push because I believe in you.

Well let's talk then, I why do you think I'm scum based on today?
I want to go over my posts I've already made - I feel you aren't really giving me credit for all the things I've said. Yesterday I tried to talk to you about skirt skirt too, I've thought he was scum over gerryoat. I thought you knwe I was town.

[skirt skirt]

But I'd have gladly proven my jailkeep ability when I claimed it, we could have planned around me roleblocking the vigilante. People thought that even if I was a jailkeeper I could still be scum though so I didn't push for that.

Wow. A joat with a roleblocker shot. I definitely didn't suggest that ages ago. Of course, that isn't even necessarily the case, because you never brought anything like that up...

I didn't ask to be vigged, I was against you being vigged .

because you lost if the person in your pocket would've died, titus had been scumreading you already, and gerry clearly scumread you over me yesterday, correct? After all,

I thought you knwe I was town.

Well let's talk then, I why do you think I'm scum based on today?

can i answer? a town mindset is to convince everyone you're town. you've already addressed me like you knew i was town in previous days. whereas, you ignored the MANY valid points I brought up against you today in favor of a garbage "wallpost" and trying to slide mary further into your pocket. There's still tons for you to go reply to, go wild. Or keep ignoring it and trying to pocket mary again.

I feel you aren't really giving me credit for all the things I've said

all 58 things you've said, right? and virtually every relevant one being d0.25/d6/d7?

Yesterday I tried to talk to you about skirt skirt too, I've thought he was scum over gerryoat.

wow. realizing myself and gerry would have to be the lynches. *shocker*

I think gerryoat is spending a lot of time trying to figure out hypotheticals we shouldn't act on. The chance that there's a strongman that is immune to gunsmith shots or that there are two mafia is so much lower than the chance that there is 1 mafia between gerry/skirt skirt that the second option is the one worth pursuing (as opposed to putting on a tin foil hat and thinking people who should be clear aren't)

wow. you sure did try to talk hard about skirt skirt yesterday. definitely wasn't just setting up the lynch today with general shade.

I want to point out that it would be weird for me to be mafia because abandoning my whole team and trying to make it to the end by myself isn't really something I'm known for? And then realize that I would have somehow voted out my whole team without anyone really acknowledging that I've been voting for scum all game.

wait? you've been voting for scum all game? you've sure helped a TON in lynching dave, flairs, and game. how could we ever have lynched them without boon finding una slipping partners, you blindly sheeping mary as your first post in like 3 day phases whne the lynch is inevitable, and not even being on the lynch or having posted in 60 pages? thank you so much for your help! you didn't abandon your team, persay, but i guess you did, because you let them do all the work while you idled although they did the exact same thing. /sigh

I also think I claimed jailkeeper before everyone else had claimed so if that was a fake claim and I was a strongman I would have a reason to suspect there was another protective role in the game? And risk claiming into a situation where there's 3 protectives.

i love a good wifom debate, no sarcasm. you took a risk because it was obvious at that point you got lynched over me and you had to try something. try again?

Oh, I see the flailing you were talking about now.

this is more of you trying to talk to mary about lynching me yesterday, right?

And we've been playing in this game for over a real life month - why do your votes still follow the guidelines for the vote counter? Do you think the rest of us should be in awe of you when you have trouble following simple directions? You being rude and frankly grandstanding about your contributions when you've made many mistakes and mispushes yourself does not make me feel good about you as a player.

i do love how this is the avenue you used to push me though, this is DEFINITELY a game breaking find from you in your awe-inspiring expedition to show mary i'm scum, right?









lemme give you some advice yumeko: don't lurk the full game as scum. it is active lurking and it is something that will not make you many friends on this site. as abraisive as i am, i still have lots of friends here, so i don't care for your personal attacks that have no game relevance.

[skirt skirt]

now, i'll help you out here cause i'm so nice. go reply to my last wall and the one above, because there's a whooooole lot that shows why you're scum and you ignoring it does not look good.

[Yumeko Jabami]

For this post, I am talking to you Mary. I have gathered up my posts and tried to explain my thought process, and I'm also showing you that I brought up confirming my action.

Also again, my role is provable. What would your opinion be if it is proven that I can roleblock people (as jailkeeper) given that no town power roles have been roleblocked over four nights?

I ask about proving my ability here

Also, dunkerdoodle seems to have been strongman killed. I think the presence of a strongman should indicate that my role is real
With that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if wave claimed bulletproof. Alone or with another power, and if he does claim bulletproof I will jailkeep him for tonight.

I go on to say I wanted to jailkeep wave - this is right before he claims his role. I was mildly suspicious of wave and thought me jailkeeping there would prove my role at the same time if he had an active power role. (And I would have suspected him if he had claimed bulletproof.)

How about lynch massive
vig wave
jail skirt
check me
I think this works out best because it covers everyone here besides our pr's' this game should basically be over after that yes?

I think if wave is a pr I should jail them instead. If they would be vigged anyway, jailkeeping them instead lets them verify my action if they are town

I don't think you need to be checked, I'm certain you are town Mary. I won't need to be checked either if Wave is a pr and I jailkeep him

If Titus doesn't have a gun I'd think massive was scum, looking back the times he voted mafia were after it seemed those players would have been the lynch

your action doesn't need to be verified. i believe you are at least a rb/jk of an alignment

skirt skirt tells me verifying my action does not matter, because he believes I am a rb/jk anyway - meaning I could be a scum jailkeeper/roleblocker to him.
Nobody else comments on this, people start bringing up action lists of their own.

Looking at skirt skirt's recent posting, the narrative they are trying to sell is very different from what I've shown you has actually happened:

But I'd have gladly proven my jailkeep ability when I claimed it, we could have planned around me roleblocking the vigilante. People thought that even if I was a jailkeeper I could still be scum though so I didn't push for that.

Wow. A joat with a roleblocker shot. I definitely didn't suggest that ages ago. Of course, that isn't even necessarily the case, because you never brought anything like that up...

Moving on to what I said next:

I actually don't buy waves claim for a second. Gerry do you have anything useful for us at all?

I buy waves claim, though. Gunsmith is our only investigation role in a twenty-one person game.

This is the proper day actions

1.) We lynch Massive
2.) We have Vig kill Mary
3.) We have Jailkeeper jail skirt skirt
4.) We have Kid check Yumeko.

Do all 3 parties involved agree to this: twomillion, Kid, Yumeko?

No, I'd rather jailkeep Mary who I can confidently say is town

My opinion on targeting wave changes - using setup speculation I figure wave's role is very likely to be real and town aligned (I can talk about this if you'd like.)
I object to you being vigged and say I should jailkeep you instead - the key thing here is that I don't object to myself being checked by kid, because the consensus seems to be that people believe my jailkeep claim but think I can be either alignment. Kidamn goes on to say he intends to be checking me - I start talking about something completely different with Titus.
So theoretically, if I am mafia I have to kill Kid this night. And then I have to kill Wave if the action is set to check me again. All the while there's a vigilante shooting three people while I have to deal with that. Me getting checked as mafia would be a disaster for me here.

We've already established that the last mafia is not immune to the gunsmith investigation because they are a strongman - we've been on that for a while. It's the reason I'm fine with Titus right now.

skirt I guess.

If it's not lynch Yumeko, I do not approve.

The rest, do whatever.

lynching yumeko is dumb when we can vig him and still get the jailkeep to use.

gerry, if scum shoots a vig and vig shoots someone vig still goes through, and if we only have one flip we know yumeko blocked tiam and he gets powerlynched.


we lynch massive
we vig yumeko
yumeko jails me
kidamn gunsmiths mary


any objections?

you aren't fucking up and shooting me now tiam. you've use your role well so far, don't fuck it up.

This is the actions for today/tonight. I think wave/kid are both town right now.

1.) We lynch Massive
2.) We have Vig kill skirt
3.) We have Jailkeeper jail Mary
4.) We have Kid check Yumeko.

you aren't vigging me, there is no fucking way i'm allowing that. why are you not an option for vigging?

but, vigging yumeko makes sense. on play, he's the most likely to be scum after massive. jk is pretty fucking useless when we have a strongman confirmed left, he's odd night so he can't even act tomorrow either.

we get his jk tonight for whatever its worth, which isn't much. that's the only reason we lynch massive over him.

i am okay being gunsmithed or jk'd if you want to waste an action on an obvtonw player who's been running the game, but you sure as fuck are not vigging me.

lets ask a loaded question ringht back at you though. tiam, would you rather vig gerry or mary? since apparently gerry wasn't an option, now i'm not an option. you. are. not. gamethrowing. and. vigging. me.

i do not scumread you, no. i townread kidamn/titus/tiam more than you for obvious reasons. i do not think you flip scum, but no, i would not say it is impossible, and i absolutely am not ok with being vigged today under any circumstance.

to be clear: i think gunsmithing or jking mei s a waste of time, but i'm fine with either. i am not going to agree to get vigged and think its horrible tho.

This is skirt skirt's reaction after I say we should jailkeep mary instead and the vig target moves onto skirt skirt. He is strongly against being shot - he very much wants to be jailkept here because he is a strongman and this looks very good for him. Him getting shot means he loses. This isn't the reaction of town who is making an auto win plan.

Has Yumeko's jailkeep actually been proven?

Has Yumeko's jailkeep actually been proven?

That doesn't matter. Cause it'll be auto anyway

Here are more people saying me getting my role confirmed doesn't matter.

you can gunsmith mary, ok?

Mary is likely to be my target.

so jail me, vig yume, gs Mary

VOTE: massive

VOTE: massive

So we're all set

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massive (5 - LYNCH): Yumeko Jabami, wavemode, KidAmn, skirt skirt, Mary Saotome

Yumeko Jabami (1): Titus

Not Voting (3): gerryoat, massive, TwoInAMillion

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

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(expired on 2017-10-04 21:00:00)

All of a sudden, the gunsmith check switches from me to mary and the thread is closed in about thirty minutes in what was basically a speedlynch. No time for me to challenge the action change. I am against the vig shot on me at this time because I believe it is better to check me and allow me to use my action again if the game has not ended by the time I get my next action. I briefly consider jailkeeping twoinamillion - my thinking is this prevents twoinamillion from shooting me, confirms my role, and prevents twoinamillion from dying if he is targeted. In hindsight, this would have been the correct choice. At the time, I hadn't realized that mafia could not act and kill at the same time (I realized this early into the day.) I thought me jailkeeping twoinamillion would be the selfish play, and that I'd continue being heavily suspected and ultimately be lynched. Letting myself die and following what everybody expected me to do seemed to be the team play. I also trusted that you (Mary) would close out the game.

[Yumeko Jabami]

Wut the hell is the point of having a bp enabler with a strong arm.

its probably a limited strong arm. 2x, or something like joat with one shotb eing a strongman one.

Why does skirt skirt's mind jump to a 2-shot strongman?

Isn't that a pretty weird assumption to make?

I feel like I've fallen into the "this is an autowin" mindset and I'm not being useful enough. Lynching me doesn't win.

This is osuka's lynch:

osuka

(10 - LYNCH):

MarioManiac4

, WhyMafia (now Titus),

TwoInAMillion,

Dunkerdoodles

, Eddie Cane (now skirt skirt),

Nero Cain

, Mary Saotome,

gerryoat,

Boonskiies

,

KidAmn

If I'm scum then this is all-town on town which I think I've seen happen ONCE in fifteen years.

Also note that this puts me on both scum lynches and NOT on the town lynch.

Then there's this - I've updated the coloring to match the current game state.

[skirt skirt]

This is skirt skirt's reaction after I say we should jailkeep mary instead and the vig target moves onto skirt skirt. He is strongly against being shot - he very much wants to be jailkept here because he is a strongman and this looks very good for him. Him getting shot means he loses. This isn't the reaction of town who is making an auto win plan.

ahahahah this is the best you've got?

there was no auto win plan. there was only an autowin from a view where you're conf town, and that's naive and why gerry was so off base. the closest to conf town was wave, which is why i wanted you vigged (would've been auto win), but no, tiam had to ignore me. i've already gone in depth and explained why i didn't want to get vigged but good fucking try kiddo.

All of a sudden, the gunsmith check switches from me to mary and the thread is closed in about thirty minutes in what was basically a speedlynch. No time for me to challenge the action change. I am against the vig shot on me at this time because I believe it is better to check me and allow me to use my action again if the game has not ended by the time I get my next action. I briefly consider jailkeeping twoinamillion - my thinking is this prevents twoinamillion from shooting me, confirms my role, and prevents twoinamillion from dying if he is targeted. In hindsight, this would have been the correct choice. At the time, I hadn't realized that mafia could not act and kill at the same time (I realized this early into the day.) I thought me jailkeeping twoinamillion would be the selfish play, and that I'd continue being heavily suspected and ultimately be lynched. Letting myself die and following what everybody expected me to do seemed to be the team play. I also trusted that you (Mary) would close out the game.

this is where you fuck up though, because its not basically a speed lynch. the person you're trying so hard to pocket is the one who hammered, and one scum alive can't do anything called a "speedlynch". you also literally just said you were against the vig shot on you, and the big argument mary had for you being town was you being okay with being vigged which you just said you weren't but you didn't have time to post... so good job removing the only reason for you being town.


but, this is a great wallpost that says absolutely nothing and just tries to push a bullshit narrative while still ignoring the many points brought up for you being scum - note this discounts none of them but instead proves some being true.

[skirt skirt]

Wut the hell is the point of having a bp enabler with a strong arm.

its probably a limited strong arm. 2x, or something like joat with one shotb eing a strongman one.

Why does skirt skirt's mind jump to a 2-shot strongman?

Isn't that a pretty weird assumption to make?

I feel like I've fallen into the "this is an autowin" mindset and I'm not being useful enough. Lynching me doesn't win.

This is osuka's lynch:

osuka

(10 - LYNCH):

MarioManiac4

, WhyMafia (now Titus),

TwoInAMillion,

Dunkerdoodles

, Eddie Cane (now skirt skirt),

Nero Cain

, Mary Saotome,

gerryoat,

Boonskiies

,

KidAmn

If I'm scum then this is all-town on town which I think I've seen happen ONCE in fifteen years.

Also note that this puts me on both scum lynches and NOT on the town lynch.

Then there's this - I've updated the coloring to match the current game state.

go review past games. 2x or joat are the common strongman types. play more and you'll understand game spec and why i've known wave/kid/5 scum/other things for a while. i'm good at setup spec, it comes with experience. as for one day of vca spec, want me to link an all town on town lynch? or two? or three? i think this happens in like half the games i've seen recently. but if we're leeching off others, mary/titus, review gerry's posts about yumeko.

[Yumeko Jabami]

Mary, this is at you again, I want to discuss with you. I know there's the suggestion that I can be a scum jack of all trades with both a strongman and a roleblock but I think that idea is silly.

My first point against it is that I believe a combination of strongman and roleblocker is too strong to both be on one mafia member. Remember, this is a normal game. I wouldn't be against that in a theme game, where town also had better roles... here, just looking at the other mafia flips:

Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Doctor Traitor
Mafia 2-shot Rolecop
Mafia Goon

Encryptor isn't really much of anything in terms of power - it's worth about as much as a good, maybe less because that could just be a mechanic without the ability to lose day talk.
Doctor Traitor is a strong role. Being a traitor (and a doctor) means this role appears as innocent to the gunsmith. This role provides some protection against the town vigilante.
2-shot rolecop is a fairly powerful investigative ability. Setup-spec wise this becomes important for my second point.

We know the last mafia has a strongman ability at the very least. This is a strong ability, bypassing the bodyguard directly (ignoring me for now to offer a more fair perspective to you).
If it was a joat, it would need at least 3 abilities, do you agree on this? Just roleblocker strongman doesn't make sense because there's also a good so those two abilities could be split between them.
So we're at roleblocker + strongman right now - this is currently the strongest role mafia would have, but we're not done because joat's have 3 abilities at minimum right?

We'll call that my second point - this mafia role would be vastly and surprisingly more powerful than any other role on it's team or in the game.

This brings me to my third point, which is that there really isn't anything left for a mafia joat to be past strongman and roleblocker.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... rmal_Roles

Take a look at this, I want to know your opinion here, I'm getting into heavy setup spec. These are normal roles - I think it's fair to assume we're using only explicitely whitelisted roles for this last ability?


Passive roles don't make sense on a joat - that's just how I understand it. Regardless, we can cross out things like universal backup because there is a vig in the game (too strong combination), we can cross out bodyguard because there is a traitor doctor.

Active Protective roles also don't make sense for that reason - mafia already has a doctor. This includes commuter but that's an even stronger role.

Investigative roles don't make sense because there is a 2-shot rolecop. That's already plenty of investigative power... remember, if you assume I am a mafia joat, town only has 4 things that can be checked (ascetic can't be checked).

The only role that actually makes sense in my mind for this theoretical joat to have is neighborizor. So if you agree with my reasoning above, you would think theoretically if I had this crazy role I would have neighborized UnaBombaH at the start when they got shot? Otherwise I would have neighborized you over the course of the game. Also, scum neighborizor with a powerful traitor is a really weird interaction, so even this is unlikely.

[Mary Saotome]

I'll read all this now I just finished going on a video marathon and should so something useful, like read mafiascum of course

[skirt skirt]

Mary, this is at you again, I want to discuss with you. I know there's the suggestion that I can be a scum jack of all trades with both a strongman and a roleblock but I think that idea is silly.

My first point against it is that I believe a combination of strongman and roleblocker is too strong to both be on one mafia member. Remember, this is a normal game. I wouldn't be against that in a theme game, where town also had better roles... here, just looking at the other mafia flips:

Mafia Encryptor
Mafia Doctor Traitor
Mafia 2-shot Rolecop
Mafia Goon

Encryptor isn't really much of anything in terms of power - it's worth about as much as a good, maybe less because that could just be a mechanic without the ability to lose day talk.
Doctor Traitor is a strong role. Being a traitor (and a doctor) means this role appears as innocent to the gunsmith. This role provides some protection against the town vigilante.
2-shot rolecop is a fairly powerful investigative ability. Setup-spec wise this becomes important for my second point.

We know the last mafia has a strongman ability at the very least. This is a strong ability, bypassing the bodyguard directly (ignoring me for now to offer a more fair perspective to you).
If it was a joat, it would need at least 3 abilities, do you agree on this? Just roleblocker strongman doesn't make sense because there's also a good so those two abilities could be split between them.
So we're at roleblocker + strongman right now - this is currently the strongest role mafia would have, but we're not done because joat's have 3 abilities at minimum right?

We'll call that my second point - this mafia role would be vastly and surprisingly more powerful than any other role on it's team or in the game.

This brings me to my third point, which is that there really isn't anything left for a mafia joat to be past strongman and roleblocker.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... rmal_Roles

Take a look at this, I want to know your opinion here, I'm getting into heavy setup spec. These are normal roles - I think it's fair to assume we're using only explicitely whitelisted roles for this last ability?


Passive roles don't make sense on a joat - that's just how I understand it. Regardless, we can cross out things like universal backup because there is a vig in the game (too strong combination), we can cross out bodyguard because there is a traitor doctor.

Active Protective roles also don't make sense for that reason - mafia already has a doctor. This includes commuter but that's an even stronger role.

Investigative roles don't make sense because there is a 2-shot rolecop. That's already plenty of investigative power... remember, if you assume I am a mafia joat, town only has 4 things that can be checked (ascetic can't be checked).

The only role that actually makes sense in my mind for this theoretical joat to have is neighborizor. So if you agree with my reasoning above, you would think theoretically if I had this crazy role I would have neighborized UnaBombaH at the start when they got shot? Otherwise I would have neighborized you over the course of the game. Also, scum neighborizor with a powerful traitor is a really weird interaction, so even this is unlikely.

Yumeko, this is at you again. Nice wall of absolute fucking garbage that literally means nothing. First of all, your roleblock isn't proven and you never said you should prove it so stop acitng like any of that happened ever. But hey, for fun, lets treat your post as if itw as because that means nothing.

My first point against it is that I believe a combination of strongman and roleblocker is too strong to both be on one mafia member. Remember, this is a normal game. I wouldn't be against that in a theme game, where town also had better roles... here, just looking at the other mafia flips:

Um... no?? That's absolutely a reasonable combination for a scum joat. Its significantly weaker than a seperate roleblocker and a strongman since they can't be used the same night, and it limits it cleaner than two 1x roles.

Encryptor isn't really much of anything in terms of power - it's worth about as much as a good, maybe less because that could just be a mechanic without the ability to lose day talk.
Doctor Traitor is a strong role. Being a traitor (and a doctor) means this role appears as innocent to the gunsmith. This role provides some protection against the town vigilante.
2-shot rolecop is a fairly powerful investigative ability. Setup-spec wise this becomes important for my second point.

Um... no?? Not all mods give day chat, encryptor is not "just as good as a goon"....... Traitor was already immune to the gunsmith so doctor doesn't even help with that so it just helps with the vig. Combining them is significantly weaker. It is also far more punishing to mafia since they can lynch their traitor with bad play. 2-shot rolecop is not a fairly powerful player when the game is this size, but okay...

We know the last mafia has a strongman ability at the very least. This is a strong ability, bypassing the bodyguard directly (ignoring me for now to offer a more fair perspective to you).
If it was a joat, it would need at least 3 abilities, do you agree on this? Just roleblocker strongman doesn't make sense because there's also a good so those two abilities could be split between them.
So we're at roleblocker + strongman right now - this is currently the strongest role mafia would have, but we're not done because joat's have 3 abilities at minimum right?

And if towns only protection is a bp bg then only a single shot of strongman makes perfect sense, or two at most, because you don't want to nullify an already weak and temporary protective role. The only point of a strongman shot is to make town not have a good shot of auto winning upon massclaim and follow the copping the gs. same reason doc traitor is a thing. A) joat don't need three abilities, but B) who knows what the third should could be, maybe a neighbourize or something unused. doesn't really make a difference, you're so far into wifom city at this point and it doesn't even help game spec. joats do not need three abilities at minimum, though, no, and you seemingly fail to grasp that a joat is marketdly weaker than a seperate strongman and rber because they can only use one a night and it puts far more pressure on keeping a person alive which can screw scum over. note how you conveniently are the last scum living?

We'll call that my second point - this mafia role would be vastly and surprisingly more powerful than any other role on it's team or in the game.

um, no? "vastly and surprisngly" is actually fucking hilarious though. are you a writer? because unfortunately adding fluff like "vastly and surprisingly" does not help game solve, and is a legitimate tell that people are lying (psychology 101 I can cite sources if needed), but hey, if you wanna go write a short story about your adventures in mafia then feel free to use garbage filler like that. it is not "vastly more powerful" either, rolecop and doctor are strong roles...?

Take a look at this, I want to know your opinion here, I'm getting into heavy setup spec. These are normal roles - I think it's fair to assume we're using only explicitely whitelisted roles for this last ability?


Passive roles don't make sense on a joat - that's just how I understand it. Regardless, we can cross out things like universal backup because there is a vig in the game (too strong combination), we can cross out bodyguard because there is a traitor doctor.

Active Protective roles also don't make sense for that reason - mafia already has a doctor. This includes commuter but that's an even stronger role.

Investigative roles don't make sense because there is a 2-shot rolecop. That's already plenty of investigative power... remember, if you assume I am a mafia joat, town only has 4 things that can be checked (ascetic can't be checked).

A load of useless garbage. Your argument for being town is that there's an unkown third joat role to go with your unproven roleblocker shot and a strongman shot. Commuter, random other role, neighbourizer, all make sense. 2x strongman 2x roleblock. 1x strongman 1x rb 1x bg. 1x strongman 1x jk. there's tons of possibilities and this is not anything like an argument for you being town.




yumeko, i want to make something clear. i enjoy fighting a scum who plays well and actually puts up a fight. if you're going to attack me personally and ignore all of my valid points to try harder to peddle bullshit and pocket mary, after spending an ENTIRE GAME AVOIDING THE THREAD ACTIVELY, that's pathetic and your "low opinion of me" is reflected right back at you.

[skirt skirt]

now, gonna go out. peace

[skirt skirt]

I have nothing against you yumeko, yet. just please realize the way you're going for the win is slimy.

[skirt skirt]

ftr, i'm gonna step back now. mary, feel free to interact with yumeko. keep in mind a hypothetical scum!him's sole focus is to pocket you right now, so please just try your best to analyze unbiasedly. I know nobody likes someone butting into everything, so have your time with him 1 on 1.

[Mary Saotome]

Will do I'm grabbing a drink and digging through this

[Mary Saotome]

Well let's talk then, I why do you think I'm scum based on today?
I want to go over my posts I've already made - I feel you aren't really giving me credit for all the things I've said. Yesterday I tried to talk to you about skirt skirt too, I've thought he was scum over gerryoat. I thought you knwe I was town.

I feel like a lot of statements you've made today aren't very solid and things like "I could've done this" while eddie is giving facts and lines of logic that make sense when I talk to you on this it feels like you had this whole list ready of things like "Oh this could've happened but it didn't" "Oh it's not like me to bus my whole scumteam" get what I mean?

[Yumeko Jabami]

I feel like you've become very paranoid of me for no fault of my own

[Mary Saotome]

I am making a wall to answer everything you've posted sit tight.

[Mary Saotome]

Also, dunkerdoodle seems to have been strongman killed. I think the presence of a strongman should indicate that my role is real

With that being said, I wouldn't be surprised if wave claimed bulletproof. Alone or with another power, and if he does claim bulletproof I will jailkeep him for tonight.

The whole arguement to this is you never had to prove your role in the first place and I think you very well knew this no one was going to ask to to jail the gs or the vig because that would take away clears you were put in a spot where you had to do

something

in order to not die your pr claim came out of left field and feels to be more like a "what can I claim to live longer" more then something that makes sense to me Does a Jk make sense with a strong man? Yes it sure does but is the jk a thing? I have no idea.

I also trusted that you (Mary) would close out the game.

Stuff like this just it really rubs me the wrong way it feels like you're upset that I can't look at dif outcomes like you thought I should do no reading and just blindly vote skirt you say you don't want to be selfish in this same quote wall but would you not say what you're doing here is very selfish

Wut the hell is the point of having a bp enabler with a strong arm.

its probably a limited strong arm. 2x, or something like joat with one shotb eing a strongman one.

Why does skirt skirt's mind jump to a 2-shot strongman?

Isn't that a pretty weird assumption to make?

I feel like I've fallen into the "this is an autowin" mindset and I'm not being useful enough. Lynching me doesn't win.

This is osuka's lynch:

osuka

(10 - LYNCH):

MarioManiac4

, WhyMafia (now Titus),

TwoInAMillion,

Dunkerdoodles

, Eddie Cane (now skirt skirt),

Nero Cain

, Mary Saotome,

gerryoat,

Boonskiies

,

KidAmn

If I'm scum then this is all-town on town which I think I've seen happen ONCE in fifteen years.

Also note that this puts me on both scum lynches and NOT on the town lynch.

Then there's this - I've updated the coloring to match the current game state.

Why is the strongman thought weird when gerry is the one who brought it up in the first place? What is weird about this vote count what am I missing?

To answer your 5410 I do not think scum is a joat either that seems strange with the town power left and would make mafia op imo I think the mafia left is a strongman and that can be either of you. You bring up the point of jailing two and that would have been 100% better it would save our vig clear you etc we'd be in such a better outcome and you didn't do this because...you thought it was selfish? When the more likely outlook here is you

couldn't

do such a thing. I think skirt claiming your a joat is a big reach but town or scum reach I don't know

[Mary Saotome]

That was not much of a wall at all but I feel it answers most of your points if you have anything else I missed or want to go over please point it out to me you know I'll read it.

[skirt skirt]

" I think skirt claiming your a joat is a big reach but town or scum reach I don't know"
nitpick, but i didn't say he was, i said its possible, and mafia joats aren't that uncommon. this was only in response to his entire argument being town being "lol i'm jk not strongman", i pointed out even in a world where he's proven jk he's not town.


sorry i'll shut up again

[Mary Saotome]

You're free to talk I'm mostly waiting for an answer back

[skirt skirt]

do you have any questions for me?

do you agree that yumeko is realllly reaching in his arguments and ignoring my valid points again to enter wifom city for no reason?