Mini Normal 1951 [Game Over]

[Toranaga]

good morning folke

[Toranaga]

VOTE: Boon Those are my thoughts

Hard claiming miller BTW

are you fucking with me WM

tell me this is a joke

[Toranaga]

good morning folke

hai friend :3

hey there alisae. fun memories of that hydra game

ok let me read the thing. hopefully we lock clear each other early and catch all the -scum-.

[Toranaga]

alright I may or may not have a couple hours to spare doing this now

let's not MAJ anyone while I read the game

[Toranaga]

alright I may or may not have a couple hours to spare doing this now

let's not MAJ anyone while I read the game

Tor, sheep me

first I read everyone
then I clear you
then I scumread boon with you

it's a process and don't rush into anything. it's anti-town even if boon is scum. let's talk.

[Toranaga]

p1 reads:

Boonskies 'Thoughts?' post is a little stiff. I ISO'd boonskies before and I felt that same stiffness throughout his posting, which is generally a scum tell but very player dependant, and boon punctuates everything so I'd probably just read him like that regardless of alignment .

I don't think WM is claiming miller early as scum even as a joke (good job if he is). I also like how he is pushing people right off the gate. I may be reading too much into RVS (which is an awful, completely NAI thing and you all should stop), but he did give meaning in his boon vote: #5 'those are my thoughts' reads like an early scumread and I can see where is coming from if it is. easily townreading that slot already.

I think Robbvna's entrance is towny and maybe particularly towny for Robbvna, without going in detail cause blergh.

boon is linking shit already which is a little scummy. I also don't like him defending himself from -neutral- accusations after hardclaiming -neutral-. I mean isn't the point of these terribad 'reaction tests' to reaction test? so to hard unclaim neutral that easily, with hard evidence from the rules because you're being pushed ~20 posts into the game is weird.

Robbvna;Derpy's #22 is townie.

alright p1 done. on to p2

[Toranaga]

p2

#27 is filled with bad reasoning but good tone.

townie WM reaction to the crosspost. he is proud that he 'tricked' boon lol

I don't like the tchill slot so far and I think #32 shows kind of a frozen up mindset. feels like tchill never played with stuff like that so he is not sure what the townie reaction would be, and then he goes on to rationalize why he is frozen instead of trying to read into the players. damn I like this read.

I also don't like anything Voyager posted so far but it's not scummy, it's just not townie.

I'm also starting to dislike Derpy in this page because he seems very committed to a read that's completely nonsensical, of calling 'reaction tests' lying and wanting people to get lynched over them. and there's no nuance with it, he is not even scumreading boon for anything else.

also 'nobody knows how to gauge reactions' is not true.

[Toranaga]

Oh, you were talking about the link.

That link was from a game that my scum buddy claimed miller page 1, I backed it up with a Day 2 odd night cop claim, and we got a perfect scum victory.

wow that's elite. ok I can see why you'd link that game LOL. if I did anything this cool as scum I would try to fit it into conversations as well

[Toranaga]

I never even mentioned the word lynch on page 2...

yeah I may have jumped to conclusions because you were talking about death tunneling WM and boon and then proceeded to death tunnel boon. you're right, you didn't talk about lynch.

[Toranaga]

of calling 'reaction tests' lying

They usually are though. Both Boon's and Why's are confirmed lies, confirmed meaning they admitted it.

also 'nobody knows how to gauge reactions' is not true.

I disagree. In order to effectively gauge reactions you have to be super familiar with the people you are attempting to reaction test and even then it isn't reliable.

calling reaction tests 'lying' is... correct in a way, but I take it as you interpreting these actions as legitimately dishonest, as if WM and boon are trying to to convince people they're those roles. if you know it's reaction testing - and I agree reaction tests are terrible and only work when it's actual angleshooting (like putting people on L-2 and claim it's L-1 or whatever) - then you're misinterpreting on purpose on some level. like, ok, I can see you just don't like it and maybe you're just trying to dissuade people from doing it.

also, reads aren't ever truly reliable until people flip, otherwise the game would be extremely easy to play.

[Toranaga]

we're really going the path of extremely NAI conversations here so I'll just stop

[Toranaga]

I'm literally on page 3

[Toranaga]

p3: not much. WM and derpy have a NAI interaction. I like #69 by boonskiies and agree that 'role PM' post is either NAI or >rand town by lil uzi. tchill is townreading WM pushing him and that's good too.

#74 by boon is townie. having lots of townreads is a good sign (I may be of the same mind for how early it is) and not wanting to explain them this early is natural.

p4: bunch of NAI posts.

p5: lol #105 by UC: "i honestly think Boon's SK claim was fake, but a good idea to not look like a SK....." <- scummy disconnection from the thread as the post is senseless with stuff that's been discussed already (there are no neutrals and boon hard unclaimed) and UC was around to read it.

LUV is town because he’s not sloppy as scum.

Why is town because I’m tone reading him as town, and I think as mafia he’d be pushing me here.

Tchill is town because he’s going through a play evaluation and his “players all have different playstyles” or whatever he said I don’t feel he would make as scum.

UC is town because he’s a Boon Babe now that no one should ever lynch.

Yeah.

I don't like the last two town leans and I think both tchill and UC have been mildly scummy. that 'different playstyles' post is NAI. I was expecting better reads from boon as he appears quite analytical otherwise.

[Toranaga]

p6: YAWNing with boon posting now. literally pushing robb for NAI stuff in this and the last page.

The other scum haven’t posted yet probably.

perspective slip?

VOTE: Boon

that's a terrible post, and is followed by an equally terrible #135.

boon's #136 question and #137 follow up is maybe as bad and scummy as tacos' entrance. It kind of feels like distancing the way they're both doing it, because those aren't nuanced, curious reads. the goal behind those posts is to push the other player and not read into their slot and try to determine their alignment. boon looks a little better because he is reacting, but him coming up with a scum pair to agenda read tacos' push is a bad look. very forced and disingenuous. I don't like either player now.

WM #138, yes it's fake AF. I wanna lock clear WM.

tacos claims he was 'reaction testing'. I'm not buying it.

alright p6 was very interesting.

[Toranaga]

p7: boon looks good in the tacos tdome. I don't like his reasoning but maybe from the POV of getting pushed by those players, it makes sense as a townie perspective.

UC's 'non rvs' comment is another scummy disingaged thought to have. this has been non-RVS for a while now!

p8: nothing worth commenting.
p9: I'll stop here for now cause I have things to do but I'll quote this tchill post I liked:

Definitely different play from derpy than what I'm used to here. Whether that's a change in play style or scum motivated idk. I haven't played a lot of games with boonskies but I'm feeling good enough to call him town. Sergtacos seems to play similar to this in every game and I'll be honest I can't read Sergtacos due to his play style. This should be pretty well known by now. I think scum here probably took an early opportunity to call tacos scum because what boonskies was saying does make sense but that almost seems too easy at this point.

I can definitely see UC jumping on tacos as scum because town!tacos wasn't making any sense, and I like that this is a thought tchill is having here. it has villagery depth.

[Toranaga]

why am I being wolfread by you tacos? is it because I find your -reaction testing- posts scummy? you're coming up with bullshit reasoning on purpose to push someone, hardclaiming that you did it, and then pushing people who scumread you for it. a town player is trying to parse out legit thoughts from bullshit. don't post bullshit, I have no tools to tell the difference with you.

[Toranaga]

a thought on the 'perspective slip' post by tacos and later claim he was 'reaction testing': I think tacos is lying that he was reaction testing, which doesn't necessarily means he is scum. I can see town!tacos reading too much into a post and thinking it could be a perspective slip, getting widely scumread for it, and backtracking as he realised it wasn't a good thing to push anyone for. I can ofc see scum!tacos thinking this would be a townie thought to have, get widely scumread for it and backtrack the same way. Either way, I don't believe the 'slip' post was a test.

[Toranaga]

Tor, vote Alisae with us if you're town.

no, probably not sheeping any of your reads

How am i lying about a reaction test?

embarrassment of posting something so bad once you realised what you did is my best guess

I like the tone and how aggressive you're pushing for stuff anyway. I have blergh RL stuff to take care of but I'll be here tomorrow with a better read on stuff. don't try MAJing anyone...

[Toranaga]

I'll be extremely unlimited from tomorrow on

was on many things and distracted by other things

all solved now. looking forward to actually playing this

also everyone in this page is a villager

boom game solved gg

[Toranaga]

So guys, I’m going to actually be more limited now...

My city got evacuated from a giant fire last night....fire’s still going, and unknown if my apartment got burned down or not yet. It’s 5 am here, and the city is kind of in panic. Yeah. So...yeah. :/

jfc bru gl stay safe

[Toranaga]

IDK why I thought cheekyteeky was playing this

kinda disappointed

[Toranaga]

we have time, go to bed sub4hire

[Toranaga]

I can't believe robb's 'policy' is still being discussed

I kinda like his tone and I'm sure he believes what he is saying, at least up until page 8 or whenever I stopped reading

[Toranaga]

yes I'm fully caught up to page 8

but I was like 5 tabling

now I only have this

[Toranaga]

Hi tor

alisae

hey there

[Toranaga]

yeah today I saw the new blade runner with the wife and am working right now but I'll totally catch up with this until EOD

[Toranaga]

Is it good?
Pedit: the new bladerunner

it's beautiful to look at. there's a sweet, deep, meaningful love story (similar to Her) that's figuratively and literally smashed to pieces and the story isn't that interesting otherwise. pretty awesome anyway if you like the original like I do.

[Toranaga]

Tor isn't chained to his computer ya know

i never meant any ill will. It's just hard to carry out a conversation w/ Robb/Tacos/Tchill/UC

hahaha

I'm reading the thread now

I actually like tchill posting from a logical standpoint from what I saw of him

[Toranaga]

p9!

#206 from tchill is good. reads are nuanced, direct, and weighed properly with what happened ITT. I forgot why I thought he was scum and now I'm flat out townreading him, so there you go.

townreading alisae's p9 for two lines she made on #218. I don't think em buddying is scummy, and I'm buddying em too so it feels natural. I like this little line threw at me:

"But yeah if you're town you're probably my go to here to bounce thoughts off of
If you're scum...
Well...
Let's just say I think I'll find you eventually but not right now "

it reads genuine.

I also like the confidence in this to uzi:

"games become easier to solve when scum look like they aren't trying.
And it's easy to find scum that isn't trying."

her other posts are NAI trollish fluff that's stupid to read into.

p10: I like sub4hire unvoting derpy for 'who reads the rules' post. at least I agree that's a villagery post derpy made there. I also like #226 and agree with the read.

lol alisae's #230 and #231. no one will try to interpret your emojis. townie?

sub's #232 is townreading a boon post that's particularly scummy. but I like his #239 read and wanting tacos and UC wagons. I think there's townie depth to saying UC and tacos aren't scum together, and it's a smart read and it's probably true.

lots of NAI stuff, lots of townreads and no scumreads. maybe no scum posted and I'm GOAT

[Toranaga]

pop quiz
can scum be pro-town?
t/f

yes

don't be pro-town scum on mafiascum because that'll be read as scummy

pro-scum only moves are read as townie so just go ahead and push mislynches all day

[Toranaga]

if acid is trying he is scum btw

[Toranaga]

if acid is trying he is scum btw

LOL

LOL it's true though...

but ok I ISO'd and 28 posts, mostly nothing there, looks ok. don't ever let him get away with posting actual content...

[Toranaga]

I skimmed a couple of pages now and I have WM as town, alisae and sergtacos more solidly as town, tchill and sub trending up... I kinda think robb is town but for reasons I can't really expose now, and I think that liz slot said something about his role PM that just read very townie so I'm fine with him. the only player I actively dislike everything is UC. I can probably pull posts and hard case him, but all in all it's not even agenda driven or scum motivated posting that I'm seeing, it's just so incredibly detached with the game I don't think even a noob can be town playing like that. with so many

[Toranaga]

*with so many players I couldn't grasp any read from, I think most scum is actually not as active right now. oh forgot: acid is probably town and boon went in every direction with townie and scummy posting that I just have no idea.

[Toranaga]

I skimmed a couple of pages now and I have WM as town, alisae and sergtacos more solidly as town, tchill and sub trending up... I kinda think robb is town but for reasons I can't really expose now, and I think that liz slot said something about his role PM that just read very townie so I'm fine with him. the only player I actively dislike everything is UC. I can probably pull posts and hard case him, but all in all it's not even agenda driven or scum motivated posting that I'm seeing, it's just so incredibly detached with the game I don't think even a noob can be town playing like that. with so many

ME?????why????????????????

hahahaha

ok this is a funny reaction. townie even...

I mean I don't wanna case you hard or anything, we have time and I trust myself that if you're a noob as you seem to be, and you keep posting a lot, I can probably find it in me to clear you if you're town. right now... this was your only townie post even. you made no reads that come from town perspective. you're still going on about fucking boon claiming SK on p1 700 posts into the game. I don't understand anything you're saying wrt boon even. I can see you're very confused. I can be wrong about you. is this your first game?

[Toranaga]

"ME?????why????????????????" is so good

[Toranaga]

what if I tell you I'm kinda townreading everybody now

[Toranaga]

does not include assemble and klazam but does include dunker

this all from lazy ass ISOing people fwiw

[Toranaga]

@Assemble - does anyone ping you so far?

Uzi claiming he didn't read his role PM and doesn't know whether or not we're neighbors. I wish I was actually a Neighbor, but alas.

this post from assemble is pretty bad

[Toranaga]

does not include assemble and klazam but does include dunker

this all from lazy ass ISOing people fwiw

why am i in a group with klazam and assemble
why did you single me out like that too?
seems a bit weird

you and those two are the three people I had no read on that I posted before ISOing

[Toranaga]

or maybe I did many days ago and I don't remember

[Toranaga]

Yeah that's fine.
I TR Dunker as well and I kinda feel like at this point there are some people that aren't in {Tchill, Derpy, Tacos, Dunker} that are scum
like I feel kinda better about saying all 4 of those are town.

WM, acid probably always town too

[Toranaga]

OHHH klazam is LUV

I kinda like luv yes

[Toranaga]

that one post about his role PM is very townie from luv

WM is townie on SOD details as well. hardclaiming miller and getting excited that someone fell for it for instance.

[Toranaga]

hard meta on acid

town acid: self centered, makes reads but doesn't bother discussing the reads. 0 buddying, not gonna try convincing you of anything including that he is town when is getting lynched.
scum acid: flip everything you read on town acid. lots of posts, interacts with many players, tried to convince you of stuff.

[Toranaga]

I could be clearing derp too lightly

[Toranaga]

assemble
UC
... boon?

[Toranaga]

you should probably read UC btw alisae

it's much fun and probably important

[Toranaga]

alright

vote: assemble

[Toranaga]

from my perspective it's just that most people are towny or giving me reason to call them town and assemble is not. also he has <10 posts so becoming a wagon might force him to get towny here. I'm not interested in lynching anyone just yet.

[Toranaga]

tchill, I'd agree with you on info-lynching some non-under the radar slot if this wasn't a 10 day gameday. lynching a slot that can never clear itself isn't a worse approach than lynching an interactive slot in a game this long. I'm not saying I'll lynch assemble now. I'm on his wagon. I'm not letting anyone get MAJed. and I can absolutely vote UC with you later when it counts, so.

[Toranaga]

Do you wanna get to know an Alisae? I wanna get to know an Alisae! Get to know an Alisae today!!!

Information

You are not authorised to read this forum.

[Toranaga]

nice

[Toranaga]

I don't think you are reading this game because I am not focusing solely on that and haven't in a long time. i am focusing on quite a few different things

I'm certain I'm reading random selections as I came back to the thread and am not going back in time and rereading (which obviously i should be doing, but i'm not). Having said that, every time that I do come back it's just the same "boon/whymafia need to be lynched" stuff

So you missed that my scum reads on them for lying changed to a null
You missed they did stuff after that which I found scummy and have explained those things. (And others have said I made good points)
You also missed the newer reason why I’m suspicious of why which is actually a really good and others have said so.

So do everyone a favor. Stop skimming and actually read shit in contex before you speak and sound stupid like you are right now.

1)

Boon is scummy for saying tacos was coming to rescue me from pressure when I wasn’t even under pressure. (This is the point people agreed with btw)

2)

He is also scummy cause he voted me basically out of a policy vote not to mention to get rid of me before I could push him and why say 2.

3)

He’s also scummy cause he declared a 1 week v/la which has now changed to a fire evacuation which while I feel bad for the people being evacuated, I don’t fully trust he’s one of them. He’s a shady person and I don’t put out right lying past him since he’s already lied once.
Why is scum more recently for his fake ignorance and his insistence that he wanted t-chill lynch yet kept doing stuff to avoid pushing him. Specifically picking a fight with me and the first chance he has to hop off tchill he does it without much of a fight at all.

So piss off homie. I’m doing way more than I wanted to and definitely more than you have

1)

if I remember correctly, it's scummy yes. horrible drawing to conclusions by boon and something I personally strongly associate with scummy logic. not because you weren't under pressure (you were), but because it's a stretch to imagine something so conveniently conditional just to give tacos motivation as scum for pushing him. I think you got the right feeling here anyway.

2)

is meaningless.

3)

is... well IDK boon, but you're hardcore attacking his character here and I see absolutely no reason to believe he is not actually evacuating. Especially because boon is one of the most active posters in the game as far as I can tell, so if he is scum he is already not the type that struggles to post.

I find your v;la accusation townie because it's a dick thing to say. and it'd be a lot more dickish if you were scum saying those things about town, so I guess if boon = town then you prob = town, and if you = scum then boon prob = scum and this is hard distancing.

[Toranaga]

I got town vibes from UC for this post:

I skimmed a couple of pages now and I have WM as town, alisae and sergtacos more solidly as town, tchill and sub trending up... I kinda think robb is town but for reasons I can't really expose now, and I think that liz slot said something about his role PM that just read very townie so I'm fine with him. the only player I actively dislike everything is UC. I can probably pull posts and hard case him, but all in all it's not even agenda driven or scum motivated posting that I'm seeing, it's just so incredibly detached with the game I don't think even a noob can be town playing like that. with so many

ME?????why????????????????

but once I townread him for it, he disappeared. then 12 hours later he writes this:

So...why am I scum again????what did I do

I think UC liked that the first post kinda worked and decided to just coast and do it again. I was assuming he'd interact with me or anyone in a meaningful way if he was town, but he seems satisfied with just having pressure release from him. he is not scumhunting and feels frozen up now. I really liked the excessive question marks the first time, it read as genuinely baffled I was scumreading him... but only in isolation. in context with the 12 hour span to write anything else and it's a carbon copy of his last post, it's scummy.

[Toranaga]

yeah go and lynch me, yall are so aggravating not being able to even come to a consensus and letting obviously scummy people off the hook for some unknown reason.

its because

Spoiler:

I FUCKING LOVE MUFFINS

Lmao this post pretty much sums this game up. Please Lynch uc idk what else to say about the guy.

let's lynch UC

[Toranaga]

nice logic. 'don't lynch me cause I'm town, LOOK AT THE NUMBERS'

[Toranaga]

GUYS

IF YOU LYNCH ME I'LL FLIP TOWN, THEN TOWN GETS NKED, THEN YOU'RE TOWN AND YOU GET LYNCHED AND FLIP TOWN TOO AND WE LOSE

[Toranaga]

the first point is the only good point. but didn't you scum read tacos after that interaction? and now you're scumreading boon for it? also... was that a genuine thought or something you sheeped off of derp? the first point... because the first point is smart. it's ok if you sheeped it.

[Toranaga]

^that was to UC

[Toranaga]

the first point is the only good point. but didn't you scum read tacos after that interaction? and now you're scumreading boon for it? also... was that a genuine thought or something you sheeped off of derp? the first point... because the first point is smart. it's ok if you sheeped it.

originally, boon made something of a good point, but then i realized later on that it wasn't a good point, it was a crappy point

yeah that's fine. it was a crappy scummy point.

[Toranaga]

vote: UC voyager

[Toranaga]

for postgame glory: UC, assemble, boon

[Toranaga]

I'm running this town over bitches

[Toranaga]

oh gosh. im not going to have to claim day 1, will I

you just did

alright. your range now is town pr or scum. if you ever claim vt you're getting lynched.

[Toranaga]

you're not some NAI shitty role like fruit vendor right

cause if you're that I'm just lynching you

don't hardclaim, just answer this: is it an alignment indicative role? can you hard clear yourself with a night action? e.g. something like 'ascetic' wouldn't give us anything, something like tracker would.

[Toranaga]

Why are you telling him safe claims?

I don't want to mislynch PR, don't want to out PR and don't out to lynch anyone else if his PR claim is garbage. I have no idea what's the best way to play this spot.

[Toranaga]

quotes have raped the page

RIP page

[Toranaga]

I'm fine with lynching UC tbh

townie

[Toranaga]

I have no idea who could be scum

[Toranaga]

WM probably town...

[Toranaga]

alisae please link me to a scum game of yours

[Toranaga]

If you're actually going to go through those knock yourself out

your ISO in the first game is all yuck lol

[Toranaga]

ok what's your alt account

[Toranaga]

sure

I'm more interested in tone and I can see drastic tonal differences from all 3 of your scum games to this one. you seem more level headed as scum

[Toranaga]

I also think you've been very villagery in your pushes, I just really hate the latest 'reaction test' and I think you're pushing town with it. would you say that reaction test is out of your scum range? it feels that way

[Toranaga]

yeah but his reaction wasn't scummy. being -confused- isn't scummy. scum won't be confused at all if they have daychat.

[Toranaga]

I'm starting to hate these reaction tests as hard as robb does

[Toranaga]

(alisae, WM, UC*)
(acidphoenix, tacos)
(dunker, sub, tchill)

lots of wolves in: boon, assemble, derp, klazam

I have reasons to believe derp is town and I think luv was kind of townie, but as far as POEing down the game goes I can't pretend to have 3 scum leans

UC has no scum motivation to claim jailkeeper. he will never endgame with it so it's a bad claim to make. IMO the best approach is clear him, ignore whatever he does that's scummy, and then if he stays alive and we keep mislynching, by d3 we reopen that slot and analyze his claim.

alisae is out of her scum range and WM has been townie throughout the gameday.

I played a lot and watched acid being scum and town and there are many telling differences. I think he could still be scum because it's easy to post like he does as scum, but that would take acid adjusting his meta to appear more townie.

tacos is very townie, aggressive and all over the place. if this is his first scum game and he is playing like that, bra-vo.

dunker is townie... I like him still pushing UC after the hardclaim, it's a good sign of townie suspicious mindset. UC is pretty scummy after all.

sub... I don't remember specifically now, but he made some posts that had townie depth where he is going over people not being scum together at least. I kinda like his read on me and I can see how I look weird reading page 8 or whatever instead of commenting on current events. I have a similar read on tchill and I also think his tone has been pretty pure throughout the game.

I don't wanna discuss scum leans cause I'd have to pull out posts and case people. assemble has 0 townie posts, boon has a few scummy ones. if I had to lynch now I'd lynch between the two. feel bad lynching boon though.

[Toranaga]

yeah but his reaction wasn't scummy. being -confused- isn't scummy. scum won't be confused at all if they have daychat.

is inferring scum have daytalk without actually reading the rules scummy?

I 100% assume scum always have daytalk because I never played differently than that anywhere. I suppose WM is coming to the game from the same perspective + he actually played a mulch game with daytalk so it's just natural, isn't it alisae

[Toranaga]

vote: assemble

[Toranaga]

derpy wagon has scum in it almost every single time
assemble wagon looks clean

[Toranaga]

ok, im convinced

VOTE: assemble

[Toranaga]

not sure if DADV or just not a time people generally post but boy this got quiet lol

[Toranaga]

boon lynch isnt happening.

why did you say this klazam. I'm not sure if this is disappointed that the lynch isn't happening or simply saying it would be a bad lynch or whatever.

[Toranaga]

Full readslist after I get a good night's sleep, but I townread Tor ATM on gut and reasons I can't explain.

we're still waiting on that reads list...

[Toranaga]

Mulch ily but don't make me join another normal again this is torture and the only reason why I'm not replacing out is because I joined this game because you asked me to and I feel like its my personal obligation to see it to the end

alisae please don't sub out

[Toranaga]

Mulch ily but don't make me join another normal again this is torture and the only reason why I'm not replacing out is because I joined this game because you asked me to and I feel like its my personal obligation to see it to the end

alisae please don't sub out

out of all things u pop up and say this?

yeah I'm not enjoying this game either. alisae is one of the few people making it fun for me

[Toranaga]

gamedays shouldn't take this long yeah. and then people start bickering at each other because of personality clashes. and almost everyone is high posting anyway, IDK why this couldn't be 36;12 like in other places

tacos why did you say assemble claimed VT, I ISO'd and didn't see that

[Toranaga]

gamedays shouldn't take this long yeah. and then people start bickering at each other because of personality clashes. and almost everyone is high posting anyway, IDK why this couldn't be 36;12 like in other places

tacos why did you say assemble claimed VT, I ISO'd and didn't see that

i lied

you're literally the reason why town loses so much in MS

[Toranaga]

gamedays shouldn't take this long yeah. and then people start bickering at each other because of personality clashes. and almost everyone is high posting anyway, IDK why this couldn't be 36;12 like in other places

tacos why did you say assemble claimed VT, I ISO'd and didn't see that

i lied

you're literally the reason why town loses so much in MS

Oh yeah? How so?

you're anti-town dude. look... reaction tests are bad. flat out lying to people to get someone lynched is bad. what if assemble is town? what if someone hammers him because you lied, and he flips town pr? and then say you're town, how do you defend yourself next gameday? TONE? "he wouldn't be so anti-town as scum"? MS needs to start hard punishing bullshit like that so that scum can't simply be antitown and get away with it. I'm not gonna deal with this bullshit any further. you will stop lying and you will stop reaction testing. just fucking play the game properly jfc.

[Toranaga]

vote: sergtacos

here is a good d1 policy lynch

[Toranaga]

vote: sergtacos

here is a good d1 policy lynch

a policy lynch is a bad lynch. therefore youre scum.

I'm not townreading anyone that lies about people claiming to be VT to get them MAJed.

[Toranaga]

we're not lynching acid, nor tacos, nor WM

assemble isn't even posting and we're gunning at each other here

[Toranaga]

I wasn't scumreading tacos, I was just pissed

[Toranaga]

is that what I said, tchill?

no, they're all townie by themselves, and of course the fact that they're posting helps with the reads I have

[Toranaga]

is that what I said, tchill?

no, they're all townie by themselves, and of course the fact that they're posting helps with the reads I have

Why is assemble scum other than his post count?

his posts aren't townie at all and one of them is actually kinda scummy... the one where he manages to scum read luv for that role pm post.

[Toranaga]

@Assemble - does anyone ping you so far?

Uzi claiming he didn't read his role PM and doesn't know whether or not we're neighbors. I wish I was actually a Neighbor, but alas.

This is why assemble is scum? He didn't even vote uzi lmao. Are you serious? Is this a joke?

not a joke, totally serious. I don't know if he is scum or not, but this post is scummy. he doesn't need to vote for it to be scummy, all he needs to do is have a weird scummy thought that makes absolutely no sense and then do nothing townie otherwise. there.

[Toranaga]

we're talking about a slot with 10 posts

[Toranaga]

lets fucking lynch tor

yeah I'm a great d1 lynch am I not tacos

[Toranaga]

we're talking about a slot with 10 posts

WE'RE ON DAY 70 AND YALL WANT A LOW INFO POLICY LYNCH? THAT'S MORE ANTI TOWN THAN ASSEMBLES POST COUNT.

I'm not policy lynching, I'm POEing down the game and trying to lynch the most likely scum player. I'm not scum reading the people you're scum reading. I'm scum reading assemble.

[Toranaga]

lets fucking lynch tor

yeah I'm a great d1 lynch am I not tacos

maybe, idk. STOP TRYING TO POCKET ME!!!!!

how am I trying to pocket you, I'm hating every moment with you in this thread dude

[Toranaga]

lets fucking lynch tor

yeah I'm a great d1 lynch am I not tacos

maybe, idk. STOP TRYING TO POCKET ME!!!!!

how am I trying to pocket you, I'm hating every moment with you in this thread dude

Why is that?

IDK I thought you were fucking better

[Toranaga]

sorry for the sub out guys, I was going through something.

great win buddies! well played robik, michael and boon! all credit to you guys

thanks mulch for modding

alisae one day we'll be both town.

[Toranaga]

But I sure as hell am gonna brag about being right D2.

fantastic d2 alisae (apart from derp claim )

n1 me and robik thought of killing you

[Toranaga]

Stop fake claiming Miller or doing any gambits at all.

Stop faking ignorance.

Don’t forget your role

Baby steps

^this is sound advice

I mean at some point you guys need to stop faking shit and paying attention to real stuff like your roles.

I'm sure derpy can play d1 and not tunnel people that fake claim stuff for -reactions- but these reaction tests are normally bad and clutter the thread with misinformation and useless posts, which doesn't help town at all.

[Toranaga]

Stop fake claiming Miller or doing any gambits at all.

Stop faking ignorance.

Don’t forget your role

Baby steps

^this is sound advice

I mean at some point you guys need to stop faking shit and paying attention to real stuff like your roles.

I'm sure derpy can play d1 and not tunnel people that fake claim stuff for -reactions- but these reaction tests are normally bad and clutter the thread with misinformation and useless posts, which doesn't help town at all.

:tear:
I don't even see what was wrong with the miller. It was a simple RVS thing that in my mind should've lasted 5 pages tops. I didn't fake anything apart from that

that's fine, I'm more attacking the culture here than any specific poster. don't think you did anything particularly bad + your reaction to boonskiies falling for it was really towny and unlikely w;v so good on you

[Toranaga]

a salty town

[Toranaga]

this game is actually incredibly townsided. if town plays well, they should win:

ascetic inno child is conf town
jailkeeper can be conf town and implicate scum
2-shot vig can definitely conf town and shred into POE
watcher can be conf town and implicate scum

commuter and JK can negate the wolves NK...

inno child, jailkeeper and watcher are not roles that are supposed to endgame as town and wolves need to get rid of the last 2 100%

all mafia had was checking TWICE if a player was a PR (which ofc can give mafia a nice little claim to go deep) and a non consecutive strongman to counter jailkeeper. town had 6 power roles (!) with 4 possibly or always conf town themselves in a 13er.

this was super unbalanced in favor of town.

[Toranaga]

jailkeeper can be conf town and implicate scum
watcher can be conf town and implicate scum

Both of these are wrong.
Jailkeeper is not a role which is ever conftown this game--least of all, because of the commuter. The commuter introduces the level of doubt as to the source of any failed nightkill. Furthermore, the jailkeeper can falsely clear scum or falsely be framed as scum via the strongman.
Watcher might implicate scum, but the most obvious choice it fails on (no watching the innocent child), and it is also not a role immune to being thought of as scum.

commuter and JK can negate the wolves NK...

Exactly! There is an ambiguity involved. That's a NERF, not a boost. There's a reason that jailkeeper-bulletproof is one of the worse newbie setups. Newbies simply have no clue what the source of the failed kill is and thus no idea what to make of it. Same principle.

inno child, jailkeeper and watcher are not roles that are supposed to endgame as town and wolves need to get rid of the last 2 100%

The innocent child could be killed without consequence at any time. No watch. No track. No jailkeep. No nothing. The ascetic was there for good reason. Jailkeeper is a role which is only conditionally powerful, in particular, if there's only one scum left. Before then, it is virtually worthless because its ability to stop death is incredibly limited (especially with the strongman).

The one and only role which did have that need for death would be the watcher. The watcher was the strongest town role in this game, hands down, no questions asked...yet it was just about the ONLY significantly strong role town could make great use of. Again, role synergy or rather the lack thereof is a thing. Innocent child is strong on its own. Vig is strong on its own. Jailkeeper can be strong on its own. Watcher is strong on its own. Commuter is

okay

but not really strong. But with all the gates on them, and put together. You're left with a town where they don't have good odds of actually producing useful information. The jailkeeper is likely to be borderline negative utility for the town (blocking key town roles from performing actions, not stopping scum). The vig is disproportionately likely to hit town. The IC is likely to get promptly killed off, and if they fail to claim the ascetic, likely cause town to waste a jailkeep and/or watch attempting to save someone who can't be saved.

And so on and so forth.

all mafia had was checking TWICE if a player was a PR (which ofc can give mafia a nice little claim to go deep) and a non consecutive strongman to counter jailkeeper.

"All mafia had was this role which was a ridiculously good safeclaim yet which gave them info they desperately needed plus a role which shut down one of the roles I am griping about". Yeah seems about right!

town had 6 power roles (!) with 4 possibly or always conf town themselves in a 13er.

Not six. Five. Neighborizer is considered net-zero, net-null, absolutely worthless zero value for town. It is not factored into balance at all.

And scum had two decent/strong PRs of their own.
Strongman is the strongest scum role in existence, possible exception roleblocker but even then strongman likely wins out in terms of disproportionately damaging the town.
Neapolitan is effectively a rolecop, except one which was designed to mirror town roles (town roles were 2x this game, so too was the neapolitan to match the town roles) and give scum a safeclaim which fit well within the setup. (Because town lacked any real investigative power, a neapolitan would make sense as town because neapolitans are cop-lites.)

Two scum power roles.
Versus effectively five town power roles.

Given that normal balance standards for a 10-3 game would be 7-3-3 (or 6-4-3) VT-PR-scum, this is right in the zone.
Add two extra town roles, and you add in two scum roles. Equivalent exchange.

Is it how I would design a game, no. Is that level of swing in a game something I would prefer, also no. But it is definitively still

balanced

, because scum and town have equal odds at winning.

jailkeeper wasn't lynched in this game because he claimed that role on d1. and then at night the wolfteam killed him. he would also not get lynched d2 regardless of how scummy people were reading him. he would conftown by either JKing the NK, or JKing the wolf that does the NK - yes, with the exception of the ascetic IC and the strongman - because there were no other protection roles in the game. he would also conftown as soon as wolf strongman flipped, because there were no other protection roles in the game. all it takes for town is read into the mechanics, yes?

watcher wouldn't watch the IC until after IC claims. in this game, jailkeeper claimed and got the n1 NK and the only reason scum wasn't outed by the watcher is because the watcher forgot he was that role.

you seem to be downplaying just how many of these roles were claimable and could be mechanically confirmed. yes, there are situations in which one town PR would get in the way or otherwise get a confusing NA, but this game could literally be done by d2 if I paint a scenario where town plays well too.

watcher was 100% overkill...