17 Kilos of Cocaine - [GAME OVER]

[Spiffeh]

The scum team is Cephrir, grapes, Andrius, and Firebringer

VOTE: Cephrir

[Spiffeh]

Also guys I'm actually Town this game I promise!

(Hi Bulba)

[Spiffeh]

Well I know you like rolling scum so it should be fun for you!

[Spiffeh]

Choo choo or whatever

Your apparent disinterest in your wagon will not phase me

[Spiffeh]

To be fair, yours is not the vote that worries me the most.

Who's worries you the most?

[Spiffeh]

Why do you think Reck's is the worst?

And why aren't you voting for him over someone who hasn't posted yet?

[Spiffeh]

I'm waiting on the mod to see what happens.

[Spiffeh]

Everyone is boring so far you guys suck

[Spiffeh]

I hate thinking about game mechanics it's soooooooo much work

Let's just lynch all the scum systematically and we won't even have to worry about it!

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: ActionDan

[Spiffeh]

The existence of a big wagon does nothing to quell my boredom

[Spiffeh]

Hello Andrew

[Spiffeh]

You would be

[Spiffeh]

Andrius I can't tell if your vote is serious or if you're just poking fun with "The Deplorables" schtick so please clarify

Because the former is OBVIOUSLY unacceptable

[Spiffeh]

Either way that post was kinda scummy I really hope you're not scum again

[Spiffeh]

Jk after reading rather than skimming I think you are serious and I can maybe see where you're coming from

Yes in The Thing I thought planning night actions was an easy solution because everyone's roles were out on the table and since we already had that information I figured it was best to use it on the most organized way

That ended up both burning me out and being one of the main reasons the Town (mostly led by myself!) ended up losing so yeah

I think "planning" and "organizing" is something I wouldn't think to be as productive here because we don't have the wealth of information we did in The Thing, and I also don't feel like doing it

[Spiffeh]

I do think everything that didn't involve me in Andrius' post was kind of irrelevant and fluffy though

[Spiffeh]

I have gut scum reads on ActionDan and Ginngie and almost no town reads hooray

[Spiffeh]

No Reck

[Spiffeh]

Is it bad that I think Reck trying pretty early on is so outside of the norm that I think he could be scum for it?

[Spiffeh]

Aaaaand I have to run to a 5 hour meeting so I will catch up later.

omg quit right now

[Spiffeh]

Does that mean you agree?

[Spiffeh]

UNVOTE: Spiffeh, VOTE: Whemestar

I can buy that your chesskid vote was serious. But if that's the case, and your read on fire was presumably even stronger, I have no idea why you'd immediately join him on a wagon.

Hi hito

I don't get why you'd abandon your vote on me when I'd done pretty much nothing to address your concerns, to vote for Whemestar who's behavior looks more indicative of inexperience than alignment

[Spiffeh]

I obviously realize that

I more have a problem with him abandoning the vote on me when I'd done nothing to really address it to chase something that can easily be explained by inexperience and doesn't even look all that scummy to me regardless

[Spiffeh]

That was @Ceph

[Spiffeh]

I think I'd prefer him to answer for himself

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Ellibereth

I guess??

[Spiffeh]

There's a lot of badness from people but I can't tell if it's scum-bad or bad-bad

[Spiffeh]

bulba - why did you sheep fire?

Because I didn't like your vote on Cephrir, and I was waiting to hear from Reck. I figured it was the best way to get out of RVS. Also, the "gimme the coke" line was atrocious.

I agree with Bins that these are bad reasons

[Spiffeh]

Why would it matter if you addressed his vote? If I don't address yours, will you keep it forever (it's a shitty vote btw)? How is what whemestar did explained by inexperience (besides the fact he's a noob)?

Idk his vote on me didn't seem like RVS and I'm a very self centered player so the fact that he abandons it so easily in exchange for voting what I perceive to be lynchbait caught my attention

I don't know how I can justify what Whemestar did being explained by his inexperience without mentioning his inexperience...

It's early, I don't see why anyone needs to be married to their reads in the first place. And yeah it was a really abrupt change but it looks more like going after something bad on a surface level and passing it off as scum motivated

It's kind of why I had a gut scum read on you earlier; you defended chesskid from what was a pretty pitiful attack from Whemestar and it looked like a way for you to endear yourself to him.

[Spiffeh]

I'm not even all that sketched out by hito I just wanted to find a way to engage with the game since I have like no reads at all

[Spiffeh]

hey guys

[Spiffeh]

You can just write me off as Town if that helps

[Spiffeh]

That's an oddly specific allotment of time

[Spiffeh]

Can we lynch Ellibereth?*

*said having not read the last 10ish pages

[Spiffeh]

Since I have a lot of homework to do today I will be catching up in this game as a procrastination tool

[Spiffeh]

We're really close to a consensus!

[Spiffeh]

Firebringer vote for Ellibereth instead

[Spiffeh]

I'm pretty obviously town even though I'm not really doing anything

And I don't think Bins or Wheme are all that scummy (from what I've read) so your list is p. bad

[Spiffeh]

Actually Firebringer it is extremely unacceptable of YOU to be voting me rn

Even if it's a "paranoia" vote or w/e

[Spiffeh]

I have not caught up

I don't know where you got that progression of stances considering I've barely given a stance on anyone aside from gut reads this entire game

Which I plan to rectify hopefully tomorrow? 8 days in a Day Phase is a lot faster than I remembered!

[Spiffeh]

Bulba I'm town it's not worth devoting walls of text to articulate a suspicion of me

Just take my word for it

[Spiffeh]

I almost made it an entire day phase with people letting me not do anything.

Don't win Paragon if you ever want to do this again

[Spiffeh]

Now I'm being intentionally worthless I'm sorry I'll be here tomorrow

[Spiffeh]

Beginning my catch up rn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spiffeh]

talking about the cocaine mechanic is preeeeeeeeeeeeeeetty different than the Thing plan because we can have a good idea how much cocaine someone has based on public information

Did andrius scumslip or am I dumb

I didn't see a slip, but what makes you say that?

This UT post is bad

[Spiffeh]

I am pretty confident that Whemestar is town

I don't see any world where scum!Whemestar points out some really arbitrary thing Andrius said and tries to pass it off as a scum slip when it's obviously not. I find it way more likely that he's misguided town that thought he saw something.

And this post just makes me feel good on a gut level

I disagree if Im scum I'm not killing guy who hammers

[Spiffeh]

There's a lot of badness from people but I can't tell if it's scum-bad or bad-bad

Still holds true

[Spiffeh]

I read Firebringer's ISO and I decided he's scum because he's not acting the way he has acted in all the games I've played with him where he was town and that's ~*~proof~*~

VOTE: Firebringer

Can you elaborate on this? What is the difference between his behavior here and those other games?

Because I've played with Firebringer a ton too and don't really think that his behavior here is out of line with his other town games.

[Spiffeh]

I think Cephrir is probably town because I've seen scum him a ton of times and feel like he'd be trying a lot harder to seem productive if he were scum here.

[Spiffeh]

Okay so it seems like you really didn't have a reason to tack on the "hito needed to address my vote" and could have just left your FOS at "he's voting lynchbait at the surface level".

Ok

[Spiffeh]

Also @mylastpost I should have added Xyzzy to that comprehensive list

And removed me

[Spiffeh]

you just do your catchup bb and we'll see about that

idk I'm really underwhelming myself so far so I can't imagine how you feel about it

[Spiffeh]

I don't remember how I had a gut town read on Bins initially

I probably made it up to be ~contrarian~

[Spiffeh]

I'll probably end up on Desperado I'm just not there in my catch up yet

What do you think of him?

[Spiffeh]

I dislike literally every single one of UT's posts

[Spiffeh]

you get to be town until at least your next post after ellis next post. please enjoy responsibly!

This has now happened so I would like an update

Keep in mind that I am definitely town

[Spiffeh]

So I don't really have a reason to town read Bins or anything but there is such a huge contingent of players being pretty useless other than her (Ellibereth, Ginngie, xyzzy, Desperado, UT) that I'm curious as to why she's been really the only one out of this group to be singled out

[Spiffeh]

Can people who want Bins lynched explain themselves or point me to posts where they do that?

[Spiffeh]

Guys I am here to catch up and save the day

[Spiffeh]

It's really gross that Desperado is absent for most of the game and comes in to comment on like the fringiest and most irrelevant shit

[Spiffeh]

Omg it took me forever to figure out who the fuck "Jester" was

[Spiffeh]

Nah I'll keep my shade right where it's at

[Spiffeh]

I don't have a read on Elli. Ginngie and Desp I expect to pick up the pace if town, and I think I should be able to read them both better by the end of d2. UT has been replaced by Wicked, so I'm not interested in that. And Xyzzy is actually my strongest scumread, but we're getting close to deadline, and that wagon wasn't going anywhere. As for Bins, I'm getting a sense of artificiality from the slot. Her thinking just doesn't seem to mesh from a town perspective, and she's trying too hard to appear town. Things just aren't adding up there. Granted, she's not my strongest scum read, but she's definitely not a town read.

I appreciate you actually answering this

In my catch up I agree that earlier on it seemed like Bins was fabricating nonchalance about her wagon and just saying a lot of things that would make her sound unphased about the wagon on her

But recently I feel like she's just shaking off early game "wtf is going on" and seems to be assessing the motivations of everyone on her wagon which makes me feel good about her

I also kind of doubt that she softclaims that role so early as scum, but I don't really have a baseline to back that up

[Spiffeh]

alternatively, be specific about what fringey and irrelevant shit i commented on and what that means w/r/t my alignment

I feel like you're picking fights that come out of left field and ultimately don't translate into anything productive

You took issue with chesskid calling Whemestar obvtown and perpetuated the point with

now i'm kind of confused

is he obvtown or is he not scum?

when it should be abundantly clear what he means. It looks like you're trying to make him look bad instead actually pursuing something that caught your attention.

And then you call Ginngie out for not explaining her vote, which is fair I guess?? But it's not something you took very far and looks as if you're confronting someone to look like you're doing something

Later on, your engagement with hito seems reactionary to him calling you out about being useless, and it seems like you're trying to catch him out on saying something contradictory rather than explain if there's scum motivation behind your problems with his Kagami read. Why does his inability to articulate what looks like a gut read make him more likely to be scum (I'm assuming that's why you're going so hard after it)? There are other people that are putting a ton of stock into someone being town that they haven't adequately explained (chesskid w/ Ellibereth, for example), so why do you specifically have a problem with hito doing it?

[Spiffeh]

Jester, if you've been following along, don't you have thoughts to share prior to a full catchup?

Jester, if you've been following along, don't you have thoughts to share prior to a full catchup?

Jester, if you've been following along, don't you have thoughts to share prior to a full catchup?

Jester, if you've been following along, don't you have thoughts to share prior to a full catchup?

Jester, if you've been following along, don't you have thoughts to share prior to a full catchup?

Who's obvscum and who's obvtown.
Before and after you caught up.

Ellibereth acting so concerned about Wick not catching up when he literally had claimed to be busy that day is literally the definition of fluff posting, especially since Elli has done NOTHING to contribute to the game in any meaningful way

[Spiffeh]

I don't know if that's bad-town or bad-scum

[Spiffeh]

It's too late for this to be a townie entrance

He had time for 6 whining I can't post posts but no time for obvreads despite reading

This is also a bad post

[Spiffeh]

Ok all that being said I'm not thrilled with Wick's reads post

Stuff like this

Firebringer - He's been the most active player which is usually a good sign.

If he's town, then I hope he recovers in time to contribute something before day's end.

just bothers me on a gut level.

And in general I find overly polished (as in overly articulated and ridiculously grammatically correct) reads like this come from scum over town. Scum, especially in the position of Wick having replaced in and making their first real post, are more concerned with "presenting" posts like these than town is.

This is like completely gut based but yeah

[Spiffeh]

And yes I realize it might be a play style thing but it still gives me the heebie jeebies OK GOD

[Spiffeh]

More specifically, it's a little weird how little stock he puts in his townreads town and scum reads. Of course, someone being town doesn't mean they're right, but usually in practice it's at least kind of correlated that you think someone is town based on their reads. But he's got bulbas scum read in town, bulbas town reads in neutral, Bins top scum read in neutral (she's on Elli now but was really vs Ginngie at time of posting)...I guess Spiffeh's reads are stale and despes reads never existed so really it's mostly just Bulba that caught my eye here.

I don't think this matters at all

[Spiffeh]

The meta provided in Wick's 904 actually works against him imo

In the games he cited his catchup reads are a lot less wordy and seem much less concerned with attaching reasoning to EVERY SINGLE READ, whereas in the catchup he posted here he provides over justification for almost all of his null reads which just reads as trying to meet the expectations of people waiting for his catch up

[Spiffeh]

I also agree with Kagami's point about Wick being overly eager to provide meta to explain away people's problems with his catchup

[Spiffeh]

the only people you attack are people that vote you

Has playing with me taught you nothing?

[Spiffeh]

All caught up

VOTE: Wickedestjr

I would switch back to Elli if needed for a deadline lynch but I am firm in my belief that Wick is more likely to flip scum. Ellibereth has had some awful posts but the fact that that's basically his MO makes his alignment more of a crapshoot.

Right now I have at least vague town feels about Cephrir, Whemestar, Firebringer, Ginngie, Bins, Bulbazak, and grapes

I have conflicting views on chesskid, ActionDan, and hito and I don't feel comfortable committing one way or the other about them

Miscellaneous comments about people I haven't talked about yet:
Ginngie sticking to her guns and willingness to get into arguments about the things she's passionate about seems business as usual for town!Ginngie
Like Elli, xyzzy's posts have been pretty bad overall but I know in Gay Mafia 3 I felt that way and she flipped town so don't feel she's done anything indicative
I debated putting Kagami in the "vague town feels" category because I agreed with the stuff she said about Wick but I don't really feel any type of way about her play otherwise which sketches me out

I feel like I'm forgetting someone but oh well

[Spiffeh]

@Desperado

check your scumdar kiddo mine just got upgraded today its the scumfucker 5000 now

top o the line

now i'm kind of confused

is he obvtown or is he not scum?

Where did chesskid even say "not scum" in reference to Whemestar? This is what you're responding to and I don't see how you could interpret this as

Also depending on the context of calling Wheme "not scum", I don't think that "obvtown" and "not scum" is contradictory or all that much of a distinction to pay any attention to it.

[Spiffeh]

re: ginn, how far should i have taken it? i questioned ginn, i let the questions sit, and then she...explained her bins vote. sounds like i took it exactly as far as i need to take it?

I guess?

I think it just fits the narrative of "innocuous thing to take issue with that is barely even worth mentioning in the face of everything else that is happening", just like your earlier qualm with chesskid

[Spiffeh]

That's just how Wicked operates. It's not alignment indicative.

An overeagerness to self meta in defense of his actions is how he operates?

Do you have some examples?

I've already acknowledged that the big reads list for catch up goes along with his meta in general, but I found differences between the ones he cited from previous town games and the catch up he posted here that bother me. What do you think about them?

[Spiffeh]

I want to say that an Even Night Vigilante probably doesn't exist because that's a dumb role over an X-Shot Vig but I don't know that for sure

I feel like FakeGod would be more likely to use the latter than the former

[Spiffeh]

WICKED IS TOWN

Why do you think so?

[Spiffeh]

Let's not forget that UT was Wick's predecessor and he collectively had the scummiest posts itg before he replaced out!

[Spiffeh]

Ceph I would like to know why you're town reading Wick pls

PEdit: Bins isn't happening stop

[Spiffeh]

You're right let's just avoid lynching anyone that claims any power role

You implied earlier that you were town reading Wick before that, right? Why?

[Spiffeh]

I go on self-meta rants a lot and I don't trust chesskid and being that this is the origin of chesskid, I am not dealing with it.

Also just to throw it in there, you can always wait for a person to just shoot when they have a gun, it's fun that way.

"Oh I've been role blocked since my role is public sorry guys!"

[Spiffeh]

Why is bins not happening? Elli wagon is stupid. Makes me really suspect too

Because Bins is town

Wick wagon IS happening and you jumped off for whatever reason

[Spiffeh]

Like I guess I wouldn't cry over Elli's lynch but I find his badness to be NAI whereas UT-Wick slot is my largest and only scum read that I have some degree of confidence in

And I don't think the claim changes any of that

[Spiffeh]

You guys realize Wick buys himself two days with this claim as scum?

In a game where we have no clue when scum can achieve their win condition?

Obviously it's probably not in the next two days, but "oh just wait until he shoots!" is not an acceptable reason to not vote for him

Especially since his role is now public and, if he's town, scum can just kill him to collect any cocaine he gets through vigging others

[Spiffeh]

Ok Ceph I'm a Night 10 vig make sure you let me live until then thanks

[Spiffeh]

Spiff, you're not getting the votes to lynch a claimed vig 16 hours before deadline, it's a pipe dream.

There isn't any singular reason to townread Elli and you know that.

For real, you just said their entire behavior was NAI, and considering an entire day went by, that is AI

Uh the wagons are like the same size so yes I do think it's very possible to get the votes to lynch a claimed vig

Elli is a policy lynch and nothing more. Which is fine if not for the fact my largest scum read at the moment is the other option. So yeah I'd prefer if Wick was lynched sorry.

[Spiffeh]

does UT ever lose interest with a vig role?

:/

Hey good point

Come vote Wick

[Spiffeh]

All Wick has done is post his initial reads list and whine about people scum reading him for play style reasons

There's been no effort to sort any of the ~8-10 people in his null category and he's resorted to AtE instead

Kagami and hit have explained pretty well why an Even Night Vig role doesn't exist

Ut was scummy and I doubt (although not certain) that he would replace out if he was a vig

[Spiffeh]

I'm officially activating tunnel mode

[Spiffeh]

It literally doesn't matter can we just lynch him please

[Spiffeh]

Ginngie is town

[Spiffeh]

Ginngie you almost never explain your reads so I don't know why you're so passionate about this all of a sudden

[Spiffeh]

I am ok with this

[Spiffeh]

Guys im drunk who should be lynched GO

[Spiffeh]

I ctrl-f'd my name and didn't see any results I am VERY disappointed

[Spiffeh]

Lol nice try ActionDan I'm so obviously Town after the Wick flip

[Spiffeh]

Correct

[Spiffeh]

My scum pool is {ActionDan, Desperado, Reck} currently btw

I'll explain when I'm sober

[Spiffeh]

Firebringer do you for real have incriminating results on ActionDan?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?

[Spiffeh]

Boooooo

[Spiffeh]

I think Dan might be scum but he's not claiming a guilty on me lol

[Spiffeh]

Desperado can you elaborate on why you're scum reading me?

[Spiffeh]

Also chesskid you should probably not hammer again

[Spiffeh]

Something that bothered me about Dan yesterday is how he kind of disappears when the vote obviously comes between Elli and Wick

Like he doesn't want to choose between someone he's been vocally claiming that he wouldn't lynch today and a scum buddy, so he throws away his vote (to grapes?) and hopes that the vote on Elli who's probably town, will go through

I also think Desperado is probably scum for reasons stated yesterday and I feel that people are writing him off for that hito engagement and I don't understand why??

[Spiffeh]

That came right after I joked about not seeing my name when I ctrl-f'd so I'm p. sure that' a joke? Maybe?

I mean I'm sure he'll come and clarify

And he should obvi die if it isn't a joke

[Spiffeh]

Lol wtf are you even talking about

[Spiffeh]

Nah I'm going to bed rn I'll do it tomorrow

[Spiffeh]

desp we're lynching ginngie today

Ginngie is literally the most obvtown person in the game so no we're not doing that

[Spiffeh]

At this moment I want Desperado lynched because he's been a pretty consistent scum read of mine all game, but I still haven't really read last Day in depth so I should probably do that soon

[Spiffeh]

LMAO Bulba do you want to explain to the class why you're "almost certain" I'm scum or should I?

[Spiffeh]

You know my small brain can't handle game-mechanic arguments

I doubt I'd prefer to lynch Ginngie over a scum read of mine even if I actually understood the best way to distribute the coke

[Spiffeh]

I'm disappointed in the lack of interest as to why Bulbazak thinks I'm almost certainly scum

[Spiffeh]

I think massclaiming is stupid and would like everyone to stop claiming now

[Spiffeh]

ok idc anymore

[Spiffeh]

This is strange coming from the guy who was all for me revealing the existence of the neighborhood last night and who threatened to reveal it himself.

This literally never happened?

I said I didn't care if you outed the neighborhood.

Can you please stop posting like garbage???

[Spiffeh]

I'm a Town GroupMe neighbor and Night 3 Drug Maker

I create an additional kilogram of cocaine at the end of night 3

so I will have one more kilogram this time tomorrow

[Spiffeh]

but I don't especially think he's town here.

Excuse you

[Spiffeh]

RECK YOU ARE NEXT TO CLAIM

[Spiffeh]

Oh Reck already claimed

[Spiffeh]

WHEMESTAR CLAIM NOW

[Spiffeh]

Life happens

I'm obviously town idk what more I'm supposed to do

[Spiffeh]

AND my reads have been pretty good so far

[Spiffeh]

I appreciate you all ignoring Bulbazak's awful reason for scum reading me though

It gives me hope for humanity

[Spiffeh]

Bulba this will be the one and only time I try to level with you:

I PROMISE YOU I would use every opportunity I had to post in the neighborhood and get in your and Desperado's good graces if I were scum. I have successfully manipulated people to town read me as scum with neighborhoods in the past, and have been manipulated by scum as town thanks to neighborhoods. I know how they work. Since we can literally only post once each phase, I don't find it to be all that useful and my general distaste for neighborhoods didn't really really motivate me to post in it in the first place. Should I have probably checked in and given you guys an update on my reads each night? Probably.

But I didn't care enough to do it/didn't have time. I don't understand how that makes me more likely to be scum.

And don't act like Desperado and you have really figured shit out in the neighborhood. Desperado has posted twice out of four times and I don't know why you're writing him off as town because of it?

[Spiffeh]

Yeah you're like the last one I think

[Spiffeh]

We're probably voting Desperado

[Spiffeh]

Please explain why you think Bins is scum

[Spiffeh]

Side note Cephrir you don't get to act like I have a chance of being scum here so please stop

[Spiffeh]

Who is claiming to have role blocked Bins?

[Spiffeh]

Yes because a neighbor has never had another role before

Stop trying to justify your stupid reasons for scum reading me with even stupider reasons to scum read me

[Spiffeh]

This is why I hate mass claims btw

Because people start basing their votes on what roles they think would fit in the setup which is NEVER a good approach

[Spiffeh]

You would be correct!

[Spiffeh]

You know the time you spent pointing that out could have been used to actually answer my question!!!!!!

[Spiffeh]

Bulba stop posting tia

[Spiffeh]

Out of spite I am going to waste my daily neighborhood post for the day

Enjoy!

[Spiffeh]

daily neighborhood post for the day

this is redundant sorry fam

[Spiffeh]

(He's not really throwing though since no one's listening to him but here you go)

[Spiffeh]

Seriously though

Can every player collectively tell Bulbazak his reasons are idiotic to try and get the point across?

I don't want to have to deal with this every Day till the end of the game (which ideally will be soon but you never know!)

[Spiffeh]

I still do not know who is claiming to have role blocked Bins can someone please enlighten me

[Spiffeh]

I want Cephrir to apologize for ever doubting me and retract his "spiffeh isn't that towny" statement and then maybe I'll believe him

[Spiffeh]

Also I'm drunk which is why I'm being really obnoxious sorry everyone

[Spiffeh]

My additional cocaine is made at the conclusion of Night 3, not Day 3

[Spiffeh]

Oh chesskid and Bins are claiming 2-shot BP?

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Bins

[Spiffeh]

UNVOTE:

Oh I guess I'll wait for chesskid

[Spiffeh]

two games in a row where im last scum in a large theme when i had an initial team of 3 zzz

LOL

[Spiffeh]

VOTE: Bins

[Spiffeh]

This was a really fantastic Town I am so glad I was apart of it.

If only the Best Town Performance scummy was still a thing (ahem Reck)!

[Spiffeh]

Thanks FakeGod for modding!