Open 698: Stack the Deck (GAME OVER)

[Realeo]

EBWOP

There is some premise that I disagree [like counting Mulch as unofficial member. That's just nit-picking.] but let us pretend that I agree with you for the sake of discourse. FTR, I do agree on you with the ease of the wagon. Some of the vote seems sketchy non-commital.

What do you think of Luca? I personally think he pushes harder (literally IceGuy is his fetish) and he's also on the wagon. There are two strikers as well.

[Chip Butty]

You are signalling me out and creating fake reasoning, and if you want to convince me otherwise you can go through my 3 points and explain why they are wrong

But you know how i work: i prod people hard and see how they react. I can't say your reaction has been reassuring. Or Realeo's. You both seem a little excited..

So here's what I am seeing here.

You think that I am triggered by you and I am

attacking

you

with

Mulch because we get defensive and a little bit too excited, right?

Wrong.

What you don't understand is that I am not attacking you, I am

defending

you

from

Mulch.

Don't you notice how I downplay your post? Don't you notice how I gave Mulch a prod of not voting too quickly.

Just because someone confronts you, does not mean he attack you. He's probably just want to correct you.

Because mafia...is a feedback process.

#PhilosophyWall
#GodIAmSoTemptedToMakeTrumpWallJoke

I have to say that that particular interpretation of your posts didn't leap out at me, but if you say so...

[Realeo]

So what do you mean by "I am a little excited" and me "not reassuring"?

[Realeo]

Wait. Wrong post. I'm just too tired. Deactivating.

[Chip Butty]

EBWOP

There is some premise that I disagree [like counting Mulch as unofficial member. That's just nit-picking.] but let us pretend that I agree with you for the sake of discourse. FTR, I do agree on you with the ease of the wagon. Some of the vote seems sketchy non-commital.

What do you think of Luca? I personally think he pushes harder (literally IceGuy is his fetish) and he's also on the wagon. There are two strikers as well.

I just read over Luca's ISO and yeah he pushes Ice hard and long and was also on the DW wagon. So two strikes against him too. But it feels different to me. Much more actual reasoning. More attention to detail, even to the slightly silly level of the micro-issue of where exactly i appeared in the top tier of an Ice reads list.

[UnaBombaH]

So I stop by to read before I'm off to work, and I have three votes (would be 4/6 but mulch changed).
If at least one of them isn't scum after I said I can mainly just read for two days, likely not make any huge posts, Im surprised.

If I were to be scum, I would have known IceGuy to be town.
So do tell me, why would I shout my throat sore for a 1v1 with him ON DAY 1?
Lynching him was a possibility UNTIL Duck wagon took wind. (I guess so were I, but you might get the point soon)
I don't have time to even check, but there is one scum in the very start of Ducks wagon. (Vote1 or Vote2)
Because scums plan was to feed me vs Ice today and force another mislynch D2.
THAT is why Duck was the lynch.
THAT is why I know Ice was vigged.

Will try to read and post tomorrow.

[ironstove]

lynch una then maybe chip n butts.

[ironstove]

That's pretty much my vote for today. Wake me up on D3 if I'm not dead.

[Realeo]

lynch una then maybe chip n butts.

Does this mean you implicitly like Mulch?

[Chip Butty]

lynch una then maybe chip n butts.

Bad doggy! No!...No!

[Chip Butty]

^The Una bit is probably ok, but it can't hurt to wait for him to get back.

[Luca Blight]

Now seems to be the right time to reassess and make a reads list, so here it goes:

Assemblerotws

- The immediate thing I recognise when I ISO Assemble are the massive gaps between his posts - for example, after 155 he doesn't post again until 328, and then disappears again until 513 etc. The fact that so much has happened in-between his posts, and yet doesn't catch-up or post anything of any real value is pretty damning; to continue the example, in 328 he only pops in to explain his 17 post and in 513 comes back promising a 'full reread with analysis', which never materializes. His read progression/thought-process from post 559 until his most recent post in 747 actually makes some sense to me. His overall contribution isn't satisfactory however so i'll have to give this slot a scum-lean.

Realeo

- I certainly like his curious style of play, and he appears one of the more town-motivated players. He does, however, seem to 'float about' looking here and there, but not sticking with anything. His back and forth attitude over IceGuy confused me a lot, but I guess he wins some Townie point, given the flip, for meta-defending Iceguy around the 311 mark when IceGuy was under pressure. But then, despite agreeing with IceGuy's reads list in - he then is back to being 'open to lynching him' in 403, so yeah, as I said it's a tad confusing. I'm inclined to see this more as 'conflicted townie' than inconsistent scum, however. I find I'm skimming most of his (lengthy) ISO because I don't really believe in my heart this guy is scum right now, so I'm gonna leave this one there.

Chip Butty

- As much as dislike his long, tedious conversation with Realeo on D1 where they're struggling to understand one another, I kind of like his unvote on 225 when he was shown evidence of Realeo's tendency to 'theorise' in previous games when he was Town. His Duckworth vote in 256 is understandable, and he has conviction behind his points in 374. In 406, fence-sitting or conflicted regarding Una? I'm not sure, but it's at least an explanation for remaining on the Duck wagon. 408 - CB's conviction seems less here on Duckworth, grouping him with the other lurkers, which he says he'd rather leave for day 2 (which is fair enough). I like his reads list in 424 (and not just because I'm at the top). They feel consistent with his views this game. 440 - Some Townie points for changing his read regarding IceGuy in a positive way. His reasoning for switching to Una seems passable here. His reasoning for suspecting Mulch in 701 doesn't seem so great - offering to hammer Duck is completely NAI in my opinion given the situation. And CB himself suspected IceGuy previously, so I'm not sure why he would use that as a reason to scumread someone either. Taking everything into consideration, I would give ChipButty a Town-lean.

Ironstove

- Provided absolutely nothing on D1, not even so much as a vote. Today needs to be his day to shine, but so far no real improvement, and only a vote on Una which seems just lazy. If I don't see more today then I don't see any reason why I shouldn't be voting for an Ironstove lynch. Null-scum.

Mulch

- His attitude towards me and IceGuy confused me on D1 - He wanted IceGuy lynched, but seemed to scumread me a bit for my attack on IceGuy. He didn't like my case against IceGuy, but I thought I made my points a lot clearer than Mulch did regarding his IceGuy read. It was also weird how he said

I think that Luca's indignation and anger about the ordering of the town read fiasco with Ice is relatively villagery

in 463 after saying

133 has weak reasoning, perhaps in a scummy way

and then

I will give Luca a scum lean. I don't like some of his earlier posts

in 465- again, not sure if this is him being conflicted, but the whole thing feels a bit like he's readying my wagon for after IceGuy flips. His posting style of making many small observations and comments is one I have trouble acquiring a read out of. I agree with Mulch's 725 points against ChipButty, but is it enough for such a strong sudden scumread and vote? I don't think so. Overall, this slot confuses me but I would give it a scum-lean.

Alchemist21

- Alch's start is decent - inquisitive and active. His interaction, suspicion and unvoting of grapes early on all seems reasonable. He pretty much takes no interest in the IceGuy wagon throughout D1 and defends him in 168 so I guess for that he can have a townie point. He doesn't do a lot fot the next hundred pages until his Una vote in 246, which seems reasonable. He sits on this vote not doing a lot other than make the odd observation (no active scumhunting as far as I can see) until his vote switch to Duckworth in 635. Interesting to note that his switch was caused by Una's 631 which Alch liked as Town. Overall I'd give this null-scum.

CommKnight

- A quiet start, but I like the emotion behind his 188 post and vote. It was a matter that didn't even concern him yet he seems genuinely pissed off. His reads list in 192 is nicely done and make sense for the most part, although his Assemble TL is a bit weak. I disagree with his idea of only focusing on the Duckworth wagon in 681, but overall I've seen enough to give him a Town-lean.

UnaBombaH

- I didn't suspect Una partucularly on D1, maybe down to the IceGuy thing, but I accept that now I need to reassess on this slot. Basically, as Alch points out and Una admits, most of his posts up until 269 are kinda fluffy. There was something I liked about this post on D1 as well which lead to me not suspecting Una - it kind of felt like an honest admission of his playstyle. I'm not sure why he only vote IceGuy here when Alch finally calls him out on his lack of content, however. His readslist in 399 seems decent, although he seems far too accepting of Alch as Town based on little, but then others seem to have done similar with regards to Alch at this point in the game. I think given the flips and my other reads at the moment, this is the slot that needs looking at most urgently today, so I'll make another post soon with a more thorough ISO of this slot, but for now I will give it a scum-lean based on the flip and POE.

[UnaBombaH]

On a break: I didn't even remember my 631!
So scum/vig killed 2/3 of my scumreads and they all turned out to be town...HMMMM.

I sort of have to be scum at this point, right?

@Whoever is Vig: I like your style.
@Whoever is scum: I think you should've killed elsewhere and I would've been an even easier lynch..

Quick thoughts, no formatting:
If GameNBurger wasn't NK'd, I would've tunneled a lot on him today.
Who said GameNBurger scumread me?
One of Alch/Comm might have to be scum at this point - yesterday I thought it was Comm, but now I'm back to 50/50 because of Ice's flip.

I try to be back tomorrow/sunday.

[Assemblerotws]

Who said GameNBurger scumread me?

Are you fucking kidding me?

A wild una appears and does nothing

Well he pops in to go "Yes I agree" and "i'll ISO top 5" despite the fact that people have been talking about him in the thread previously

Also It seems that i agree with Alchemist on the interaction (yes the irony of the last line and this one is not lost on me, I'd like to think i will have contributed more than una by the end of even this post tho)

IceGuys is catching up, votes una, which isnt a bad vote in my book at this point

Looks like Una is caving to the pressure, in my eyes atleast.

Oh my god, is Una serisouly trying to say he's been playing shitty on purpouse, and that he town reads everyone who has been scumreading him for taking note?

269 Someone please tell me that hes saying something else. This is the laziest response to criticism I've ever heard and the stupidest day 1 strategy IMO if he's serious, and then its the worst decision to half ass it and then not commit to it. What the hell?

Una is seriously claiming that his fake suminess 5D Chess bullshit is something he just pulls in other games. This is terrible and I feel more and more strongly about rolling Una all the way to L-1 at this point.

Una strikes me as scum popping in to look busy and just let the arguments roll on by.

I also seem to agree with Raeleo on this.

Really dissapointed with Chip and why are people forgeting about UNA

If the discussion is still ongoing UNA is my strong pick for lynch candidate still.

Hey look UNA decides to actually get a full readlist

In my mind It hardly makes up for the bullshit of an excuse he made way back which i still stand by is enough alone to lynch him

Raeleo seems to be confirming that this is something UNA pulls on this site. I find that a bit more reassuring but I still think its absolutely stupid and would greatly encourage Una to cut that shit out, town is a collective effort not an individual, if i'm interpreting what you're saying correctly You're playing GOTCHA by forcing people to talk about you, or not necesarily GOTCHA, but something to get the game going? Its still stupid because its scummy behavior.

WANT TO VOTE:
UNA- For obvious reasons. His strategy early game is the embodiment of the "I was pretending to be retarded" Comic i see around the web if he's serious

VOTE: UNA

I REALLY don't see a good argument for this being not a safe vote.

Unless assemble claims scumm I'm more inclined to vote out UNA

T: GNB, raeleo, iceguy, Luca
TL: chip, comm, alchemiat (lots of gut feelings here admittedly)
Null: grapes, mulch
SL: iron stove, assemble, (one of these must be wrong)
S: una, duck

There ya go

Sorry the delay was because the duckworth vote completely made me reevaluate

Scum is Una huzzah guys

If we have a vig just take a wild shot on iron stove please if you're really not gonna take a chance on Una

He literally expressed his scumread on you every chance he got.

[Chip Butty]

LOL.

[CommKnight]

One of Alch/Comm might have to be scum at this point - yesterday I thought it was Comm, but now I'm back to 50/50 because of Ice's flip.

What Assemble said, and LOL. Riiight. Gotta be me or Alch right, at least one of us.

VOTE: Una

I wanted you dead yesterday and then the quick-lynch happened on Duck. You're not escaping this time.

[UnaBombaH]

One of Alch/Comm might have to be scum at this point - yesterday I thought it was Comm, but now I'm back to 50/50 because of Ice's flip.

What Assemble said, and LOL. Riiight. Gotta be me or Alch right, at least one of us.

VOTE: Una

I wanted you dead yesterday and then the quick-lynch happened on Duck. You're not escaping this time.

Passing by again.
I just think GameNBurger was a weird kill over either of you, but maybe it's just me?

Also: how does no one think it weird that scum!Una would kill EITHER Ice or Game?
Especially Ice, but I think that was the vig.
Seriously, I don't have time until tomorrow or Sunday, but think about the night actions from scum!Una perspective.
Think about me tunneling Ice as hard as I did, why would I throw my everything into one specific lynch DAY 1?

[UnaBombaH]

He literally expressed his scumread on you every chance he got.

This exactly was my point.
Would be stupidly obvious kill from scum!Una, and would also mean I was leading the scum teams decisions.
On my first scum game? (actual one)

Lynching me is a poor decision, we should be discussing the vig-pool already.
Include me in that if you want to.

[Realeo]

Speaking of UNA's night kill--I have a question: Why am I not dead? Am I not towntelling enough?

[ironstove]

luca, if my vote on una is lazy then show me what a non-lazy vote on una looks like.

[Alchemist21]

Yea, I'll post up a reads list sometime after you lynch una.

Play the damn game.

[Alchemist21]

I guess the only positives to come out of all that are that the pool is considerably smaller, and we got some info from the flips. And we have a vig as has been pointed out, which could be good or bad fir town, it's up to us. I agree with whoever said IceGuy was likely the vig shot.

Specifics: I don't mind the CK vig pool idea but the pool should be chosen from the Duckworth wagon PLUS Mulch, who offered to hammer PLUS Realeo, who explicitly approved of it near the end.

Which brings me to a question: Realeo, why didn't you vote for anyone?

Mulch is probably my top scumpick right now. Not only did he offer to hammer Duckworth but he was strongly pushing IceGuy as the lynch. Unabomber has had a towner tone today and late d1 but his flip would provide a lot of association info.

Alch isn't looking quite as good to me today. It was he who got the Duckworth wagon started in earnest late d1. This only matters if Una is scum though. I'm thinking maybe lynch Una and definitely have Mulch in the vig shoot pool.

If you add those 2 you're making the pool nearly as big as the whole game. And does it really look like I was bussing Una to you?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Una
That theory about Game being killed for his reads? Una was his strongest scumread, and my own reread also left me feeling Una is scum.
Also, the reason I was willing to join the flashwagon against Duckworth was to see how his flip would look for the people who started the flashwagon. Didn't get much out of it, though.

First line - makes sense.

Second line - makes no sense.

Why would you join a wagon just to see what it does to the others on the wagon?

[Alchemist21]

So I stop by to read before I'm off to work, and I have three votes (would be 4/6 but mulch changed).
If at least one of them isn't scum after I said I can mainly just read for two days, likely not make any huge posts, Im surprised.

If I were to be scum, I would have known IceGuy to be town.
So do tell me, why would I shout my throat sore for a 1v1 with him ON DAY 1?
Lynching him was a possibility UNTIL Duck wagon took wind. (I guess so were I, but you might get the point soon)
I don't have time to even check, but there is one scum in the very start of Ducks wagon. (Vote1 or Vote2)
Because scums plan was to feed me vs Ice today and force another mislynch D2.
THAT is why Duck was the lynch.
THAT is why I know Ice was vigged.

Will try to read and post tomorrow.

Scum can and do get into 1v1's with Town. I'd be shocked if you honestly don't know this by now.

[Alchemist21]

lynch una then maybe chip n butts.

Oh great. Now I'm agreeing with

Cell

Vegeta

Ironstove. Look what you people made me do!

Let me read the rest of these posts and see which I want to vote for though, because I'm still not sure which I want today tbh.