Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[Drixx]

*wave* - 2am so I'm going to be back in 6 hours or so when my wife heads to work. As per usual I'll catch up and comment on stuff from this post onward simultaneously. Awesome player list. Much excite.

[Drixx]

monkey serious question - why haven't you talked much about dildos this game?

Really Nancy? Can we go ONE game without sexual innuendo. LOL.


Doing my thread read now. ~1200 posts so a few hours should do it.


P-edit: point me to the question Math? Having questions helps me a lot when I'm doing a catch up since it gives me specific things to be looking for to evaluate instead of just having whatever jumps out at me. I think I saw something about you having a limited number of posts so maybe give some reasoning for Titus being scum so I can evaluate for myself?

[Drixx]

I concur that Monkey looks super opportunistic sliding in there and trying to be subtle about directing the lynch. Gamma is either playing really badly or has a bad case of sittingonthefencitis, which is fatal when it comes to end of day and causes no lynches.

VOTE: humaneatingmonkey

[Drixx]

I really don't like how hard it was to move a wagon on humaneatingmonkey, especially in a game where there was already a no lynch and the deadline is so close. I'm even more weirded out by how fast the Titus wagon is stacking up.

Like ... I evaluated Assemblerotws and in terms of content, what he said early on in the game lines up with what actually happened. The only questionable thing I see from him is the assertion he would have drawn a Vig shot and thus a vig claim had to be false. I don't think any vig would have vigged him based upon his ISO to that point. There wasn't a lot there, but what was there doesn't look like scum trying to stay just above the lurker level or anything. Frankly the worst of his posts is the personal attack on Robbnva, and it wasn't even much of one, AND Robbnva plays very differently than most players. It's actually an astute observation disguised as a snide commentary about Robb's level of play.

And then we have Titus who replaced in and has produced jack shit, but Titus has also been busy as all get out with her job. Like to the point that we haven't even worked on a game we're designing together for weeks and weeks.

I see no reason to rope this slot, and the difficulty of getting a wagon on humaneatingmonkey, where there's actually some scummy behavior to suggest he's scum, compared to the way the Titus wagon just breezed its way in the space of a few hours. I can't believe NOBODY else thinks there is something wrong here.

[Drixx]

I see that you see no reason, still tho, vote it because it's scummy not to compromise

I'm not going to hammer before Titus can even say anything, and since the person we

should

be lynching has already given intent to hammer, I only need to be around near deadline just in case in order to ensure we don't have consecutive no lynches. I'm not unreasonable in that way. We have to lynch and if I can't persuade you by pointing out why the Titus slot has no reason to be lynched and pointing out why the other slot does, then that's my failing, isn't it?

I mean... I think I made a pretty compelling case that there's literally NO reason to lynch Titus and in fact if I had to give a read on the slot I'd say it's slightly town because of the early posts which were on point and don't appear to be scum narrative bullshit.

I'll be sure to be around near deadline just in case for some reason I have to ensure we actually lynch today, but that doesn't obligate me to stop trying to persuade you guys that it's the wrong lynch. Please go take a look at the things I pointed out and see if you don't agree with me.

[Drixx]

My play so far would have drawn a vigkill, I now realize. If TChill did not shoot me, I highly doubt his claim.
VOTE: TChill

Looking back to try to counter Drixx, my reason for suspecting this has changed. It is now: why didn't he try AT ALL to improve his play after this? I think it was just fake posturing and piling on to a mislynch. However, I don't think he would have noted this himself so possibly pointing to daytalk?
As for why not monkey, he claimed PR with an obvious progression of thought to it, and I also liked his earnest early desire for action.

Yeah umm... I already pointed this out as the lone post in the ISO that is weird. The problem is that he replaced out and I can't ask him to explain why he believed he had played poorly enough to draw a kill.

What you are calling "earnest desire for action" looks an awful lot like manipulative self preservation to me. And here you are

again

white knighting for him and he's not even likely to get lynched.

And finally ... what on earth does claiming a PR actually mean in this game? Why is that special and why does it mean he's town?

[Drixx]

I think the fast narrative MathBlade's pushed that it's either Titus or I limited the pool for lynch when there are better lynch candidates like Game Replacement. However, I'm not gonna be narcissistic and say I didn't have it coming.

I believe now it's either Titus or me and it's 12 hours before deadline so I'm definitely not gonna wait and see if the tide turns on me within 12 hours

so VOTE: Titus. Sorry not sorry.

The bolded is fucking disgusting. Pure scum and the kind of play that makes people #WOTC people. If I give you the benefit of (a huge fucking amount of) the doubt and assume you are town and your reasoning is something like "worst case it's a mislynch either way", it's still absurdly disgusting. It's a game where you should assume everyone has a role, and in order to delay your death you literally just killed someone before they had any chance to claim.

On top of you literally claiming that your move is to ensure your survival, hammering without letting the player show up and claim is basically always a scum claim. You eat rope tomorrow.

And since you seem to have a cognitive deficiency: Silence is not dissent. It's silence. You don't get to just assign motive and position to other people at your convenience.

And finally, I don't give a flying fuck about what people said without votes. Titus went from 1 vote to L-1 in FIFTY THREE MINUTES, real time. That's absurdly fast.

[Drixx]

I didn't target Tchill.

[Drixx]

So I'm sitting here waiting for the info drop and ... it's going so slowly I got prodded. Holy shit this game is like molasses at the south pole ... only I think the molasses moves faster.

[Drixx]

That makes a whole lot more sense. Well played Ginngie. I was really restraining myself from injecting anything into things while what you were doing played out, because from where I'm sitting, you either had to be gambiting OR be scum OR scum has amazeballs power level.

I'm trying to figure out what the hell GE is doing with that reads list. I was looking back to see if he had expressed reads clearly anywhere earlier to try and see how he arrived at that, and nothing recent on that front, but there was #1222 which jumps out in hindsight.

[Drixx]

If anyone besides Ginngie is affected by the hurricane I will do something with the deadline.

The path moving so much west now affects me inasmuch as family is now flying in to stay here.

[Drixx]

Just an update: I've got family here and more family on the way. The storm track predictions are all converging now and it's going to be a pretty direct blow to the Tampa Bay area (first since 1921, 1864 before that) and it's going to be really bad. Barring some kind of last minute change of course, I'm probably going to be hosting for quite some time. Both my parents and my sister's houses are very close to the water and unlikely to withstand the storm.

Limited activity for the foreseeable future.

[Drixx]

@mod: Hurricane update

- Both my Parent's an sister's homes made it through relatively unscathed. Some light flooding (2-3 feet) for a few hours. I'm still hosting as my folks aren't due to fly out until Thursday night, so still V/LA, but probably no need to extend on my behalf.

[Drixx]

I don't want to say more just now, but I'm pretty much certain Ginngie is doing the right thing. Of particular note is the two posts that Gamma made with reads and what was said in between them.

Why did Nancy and Massive both drop? Nancy dropped out of "near certain town" (and that by itself raises the question of how he had THREE people at "near certain town" without any explanation) and Massive dropped from Townie to null. He also pushed Massive to claim in the 2nd reads post.

Then he apparently realized he had left Math, myself and DH off, because there we are at the next reads list post, and he literally just tacked us onto the bottom of his reads. Like literally ... Massive dropped from "towny" to "nulltown" and then DH got added in as "/null" and math and I got plopped in at scummy. No explanation either.

In between his "reads" posts, I dropped a light crumb and noted that I had been proverbially biting my tongue with Ginngie's gambit, because anything which could give the claimed results is incredibly unlikely, as I pointed out. There's also the fact that Math realized something important about the possibility space which puts Gamma on bad footing. And there you have it: potential threats and people he wants to claim mysteriously either move towards scummy in his "reads" or just show up for the first time directly at scum.

[Drixx]

Thanks for your graciousness with everything going on with the hurricane and family and stuff. My folks have some damage, but nowhere near what they would have had the storm gone inland at the Tampa/St. Pete area as expected. They likely wouldn't have a house anymore in that case. Things were pretty crowded and they left me the gift of some kind of flu-like virus, but they're home safely now and I'm good.

Nancy has been exceptionally wily in my few experiences with her. I would appreciate if someone who knows her better could pipe up on what to look for in her posts to try and find her team. I'm a little weirded out by how her lynch happened also. I'm fairly sure she could have talked herself out of it, but she didn't seem to give a whole lot of effort to that end. Why would scum!nancy roll over like that?

Ginngie pinged a little bit with the comment about x-shot not fitting in the setup. Hindsight shows that nancy was faking, but I don't see why or how that conclusion was reached.

I think we basically got super lucky, because the primary reason that nancy was lynched was because of setup spec, and we know from Massive's flip that there is more PRs (he flipped Backup Vanilla_Cop when humaneatingmonkey was a Cop with the novice modifier. I'm pretty sure this means that Massive was not even a PR yet, but instead was backup to a Vanilla Cop who hasn't yet flipped. Good play on his part drawing fire in that case.

There's also the fact that I know for sure of at least one other town PR.


So that brings me back to nancy. She was a goon. She basically rolled over and let herself get lynched. The question is: Cui Bono?

Apart from the vigilante, all of our flipped PRs (and the implied vanilla cop whom Massive was a backup for) had some level of investigative utility. That's also straight in line with what I know. I think that also suggests what kind of roles we should expect scum to have. Nancy being a goon implies a strong power level remaining, and also probably explains why she basically rolled over for the lynch.

So this should be easy now: figure out who nancy was protecting and GG.

[Drixx]

Lime in da coconut wins the award for rolefishing as a reaction to me claiming to know of another PR. No town aligned player should want me to reveal such information, except in conditions where doing so would solve the game. And I certainly didn't say or imply that.

Is this as simple as Gamma Emerald and Lime?


@Ginngie - I would really like to see actual explanation and analysis please. I have a hard enough time getting a read on you. Short declarative statements for posts don't help. Even if it seems absurdly self-evident to you, can you please explain the rationale for how you arrive where you do? If you do it for no other reason than to demonstrate some new tools to help me, then at least do it for that please?

[Drixx]

Math is scum by association with nancy btw

I think there's a really good reason to assume not, but feel free to point out why I'm wrong.

[Drixx]

VOTE: MathBlade

This is L-1

[Drixx]

So what makes anyone think I'm scum? Blank votes started by Gamma (who could easily have been hammered earlier, and was the consensus lynch until Math slipped) and PP (who replaced a totally empty slot) aren't exactly overwhelming here.

Do feel free to actually give some kind of cogent argument.

[Drixx]

Pretty much everyone did, Ginngie.

I've given it well enough time. Looks like the blank votes on me are opportunism.

I've got an idea, but it might offend a couple of you. How about we

NOT

snatch defeat from the jaws of victory this game by doing stupid shit like ignoring the really obvious?

Unvote

<--- For example; I thought I saw mathblade slip. There's legit a quoted post where they refer to being scum openly and I was like "WTF weird for math to slip like that", but assumed it was the reason votes had shifted that way. But I went back and looked and Math was legit talking about another game for some reason. (When will smart people learn that whatever happened in another game with another setup with different people cannot accurately inform you about any specific later piece of information?).

I even REFERENCED mathblade slipping, and nobody corrected me.

Like ... are we actually even trying here guys?



Meanwhile we've got Gamma somehow shrugging off a wagon by ... blank voting.

Did I wander into a newbie primer game or something? (Newbie primer = game to prepare one to play a newbie).

[Drixx]

There's a reason I am not pushing Lime, despite his reaction to what I said being pretty scummy. It's a good reason. I'd prefer to leave it at that.

As far as nancy busing or not busing: I reject that as an argument. Her pushing Gamma knowing she would die is what I would expect if they are teammates. She has been saying for awhile she's going to quit or take an extended break, so if there was ever a time to change things up, why not now? Furthermore ... she went to her death with like 2% of the charisma she actually has on display. She could have gotten out of that lynch and yet she didn't. It therefore follows that she wanted to be lynched. It therefore follows that any argument about her "busing" isn't really relevant in this situation.

I mean ... I suppose it's mildly possible that she didn't get lynched and Gamma did, but I wouldn't call her effort at the end of yesterday noteworthy, and if she actually wanted to bus someone, she has the charisma to pull it off.

So she decided to eat the lynch. She has a well known meta of not busing. People are outright dismissing a super scummy slot because nancy kinda sorta pushed it. That sounds exactly like what I was asking for earlier: who benefits from the way she played it out?


Pairing me up with Math is absurd because I could easily have hammered Gamma without any heat for doing it, and instead I voted math and took heat off of gamma.

You seem most sure of Math ... why?

[Drixx]

Her pushing Gamma knowing she would die is what I would expect if they are teammates.

It's not like I said she was pushing Gamma before the gambit

Do you believe she didn't consider that it might be a gambit? Even I realized it was almost certainly a gambit, and I'm not anywhere near her level.

[Drixx]

I apologize for frustrating you Ginngie. So scum!nancy pushing Gamma (before she scum claimed) means he should be in the probtown/paranoia pile?

[Drixx]

See ... Ginngie pointing it out is where you should have left it. You coming in and trying to hang your hat on it is super oily and opportunistic.

The first answer that comes to mind to your "question" is: distancing.

[Drixx]

After the past few posts from Gamma (as I pointed out), I'm pretty sure he's scum. PP has remained an empty slot since replacing in and is a plausible partner.

Grendel you may as well take me out of your lynch pool. You haven't at all engaged with any of my posts so it just looks like you looked at the most recent vote count and don't really give a shit who gets lynched. You're about as a deep as a puddle.

[Drixx]

Civilization Mafia Mafia and my last game ends in a

Mafia

win!

This makes me sad. I hope we'll see you again down the road. - No issues with the dead thread.

@Grendel - Super well played, especially from the moment I gave you heads up that I might be hospital bound (and did, in fact, have a stay unfortunately). You really knocked it out of the park. Well done.

@all - Apologies that my decision to go to hospital was so rushed and sudden that I couldn't post or replace or anything. The hospital wi-fi disallowed this site, so I was just totally locked out until I got home and was dead. If it's any consolation, going when I did probably saved me a week in ICU. I was right in the very beginning stages of sepsis (Bacteria growing in the blood, so it goes everywhere and that can quickly just overwhelm the body and leads to septic shock which is ridiculously dangerous). The good news is they really were crazy thorough and have me feeling better than I have in years!

[Drixx]

I'd love to hydra with you math. So much I could learn from you (especially town side). If you're up for it, I usually make a slack channel for realtime chat and copy the logs over into the mod provided PT, so I'm super easy to hydra with because unless I'm out doing errands or asleep, I will be responsive to you in real time

[Drixx]

I usually play exceptionally well as scum. That said, I'll learn from my betters either way.

[Drixx]

I'm totally flattered that you would say that. I think the only possible hydra name for us will be RationalNumbers.