Normal 1934: Civilization Mafia Mafia (Endgame)

[nancy]

Fuck I am gonna get roasted so hard this game.

@robbnva I'm not really sure why you're reading Persephone's vote as non-RVS? Unless I'm misreading you here saying "we must have blood" seems pretty obviously a joke to me and you seem to have missed that entirely; is there some reason why you expect that kind of reasoning to be serious? I can see how you might read her as backtracking there if you did take her initial vote on you for not posting seriously but you don't seem to have brought that up; don't really get why you reiterate yourself in 16 without taking into account that she's said it was an RVS vote or why her not making sense is your main sticking point here if she is out of RVS.

@Persephone don't entirely see what you're doing here to get out of RVS if that's what you're genuinely trying to do; robbnva's issue with you seems to be that he thought your vote on him for not voting was something you actually found scummy, rather than an RVS vote; you don't seem to have made much effort to correct that misconception. Unless that actually was the case I'm a little confused by your approach here overall.

[nancy]

You do realize the R in rvs means random right? He voted me for a game related reasons so asking him to explain himself and make sense is appropriate.

Pretty sure the difference is that reasons are jokes; I agree with you that if her vote was serious then she should probably clarify that, but the whole point of RVS is to randomly vote someone for something that isn't alignment indicative as if it is; whether or not the vote has to do with GRC doesn't seem particularly relevant.

[nancy]

Hi monkey

(I'd ask why that vote but I'd honestly rather wait for Robbnva.)

[nancy]

@nancy - I don't have anything to add atm so I am confused as to why you are waiting for me.

Why are you scumreading Persephone, basically. Don't really get the sense that you've been trying to sort her here and I feel like you should be a little more concerned with parsing her behavior beyond just saying that she doesn't make sense; it's only page 1 but if you think that she should have a legitimate reason for RVS voting you I think that it's pretty reasonable that you should also probably have a reason for your read; I haven't seen any.

Town.

Sounds scummy as if instigating a fight, but townAF for honesty

Don't think this is particularly good reasoning for a townread; maybe he wouldn't be that brazen as scum or maybe he just didn't realize that saying that was actually scummy, either way I'm not sure I'd be comfortable townreading someone for just being honest. I am inclined to agree though that the tone feels town here; probably a little more hesitant about it given our last game where he came out with stuff like this on more than one occasion and was mostly written off but he was fairly obvscum by the end of it so I'm honestly not too worried at this point.

Uhh yeah but the moment you defend an RVS vote with "lol chill it's just an RVS vote" you invalidate the entire purpose of RVS.

Pretty much agree with this; don't think Persephone's response was a very good one although I probably need to see more from her to figure out what relevance that has to her alignment; think there's a bit of a disconnect there that only really becomes apparent when you look at the post from the perspective of someone genuinely trying to get out of RVS - she seems focused on the logic within her post of voting for blood and doesn't really approach Robbnva in the context of pushing the gamestate or trying to sort him so much as just her position being justified (which I think is beside the point).

Basically I voted for the first stupid reason I could think of because it seemed better than literally no reason. Robbnva then argued for some reason so I decided I could either awkwardly apologize or keep pushing and see if his reaction would be useful. Then people started voting me and so I realized I was inadvertently helping us out of RVS after all.

Was his reaction useful, then? Not really sure how to parse whether this is ad-hoc from you or whether you were legitimately thinking that at the time; leaving RVS is fine but why not just respond to him in a genuine way if that's what you're trying to achieve rather than deliberately acting scummy as a reaction test?

VOTE: Robbnva

Well there's no need to be condescending.

Am presuming you don't actually think that condescension is a scumtell; why do you scumread Robbnva?

[nancy]

That was meant as a flippant attack rather than a flippant defense actually. Like "why are you being so defensive about an RVS" was roughly the intended meaning. Tone is really hard in text. It wasn't a super calculated move beyond just wanting to keep poking at the little micro-conflict in the hopes that it would produce something useful to me or (more realistically) more experienced people than me. I made myself resist the urge to actually justify myself until morning because defusing the conflict early would waste the opportunity to use it to end RVS.

Ultimately, I consider my approach vindicated by the fact that it produced a wagon to talk about, even if it's on me. Unless I actually get lynched it will totally have been worth it.

This feels a little ad-hoc from you and I'm not really sure why you would think that not responding to someone would be more likely to get you or anyone out of RVS? If you're genuinely wanting the gamestate to progress I feel like the automatic response would be to produce content that will actually help that happen and not to just wait until morning in the hopes that discussion is made; you're right that the way things unfolded pushed the game out of RVS but it's pretty easy to look back and say that your motives were pure after the fact when there's no meaningful indication that what happened was in fact what you were intending; I find it a little difficult to believe that you were intending for yourself to get scumread and wagoned.

Is it considered actively better to vote for a blatant joke reason in RVS than for a reason that is "real" but blatantly insufficient, and if so, why? Real question; it's my first non-newbie game.

Wouldn't say so; Robbnva's approach overall seems a little legalistic to me and I'm not entirely sure where he's coming from to be honest; I don't really do RVS much anymore but voting someone for GRC is pretty typical in my experience - Robb's is different I guess.

monkey is stirring shit and openly challenging townreads on himself, like what the hell, dude?

Not sure I agree that challenging townreads on yourself is scummy; it's probably ultimately null although I can see how you might be reading his prod at Ginngie that way; if monkey is scum I'd expect him to want to fake paranoia about being townread so abruptly, but I think it basically makes just as much sense if he's town - Gin's townread comes from one post and depending on how strongly Gin expresses her read there I wouldn't exactly feel comfortable about it coming from a player I had no experience with. (And not that I even know how to read her really but I feel like blurting out why she thinks someone is town this early makes more sense if she's town.) Agree that his reasoning for scumreading Persephone doesn't seem particularly good but I think it's a pretty understandable position overall; the idea that scum are going to make fake-sounding posts doesn't feel unbelieveable to me in any special way as something that monkey might believe as town; I think your concern there is pretty fair even if it's not something I really agree with at this point.

nancy is a great player and a friend, so of course I came to the rescue

<3

[nancy]

I'm back from V/LA!

About to leave for a birthday party but I think Ari might actually be scum here? Ari, this game has been pretty slow-moving and I feel like you're playing your scum meta dude :/

159 in particular unsettles me; I feel like scum!Ari follows thread without posting while town!Ari would be actually commenting on things; even if you had been fluffposting I would've felt better about you here but there's just nothing. Your active lurking in your next couple of posts really doesn't help that feeling; 189 feels like a half-abandoned attempt at scumhunting; 203 is almost a caricature of town!Ari - I've never seen you quote posts in this way and it just feels super awkward. 204 and 208 sound a whole lot like scum!Ari; I don't believe you discredit like this when you're town and the blank insistence that you're a back lynch sounds a lot like the way you responded to RC's scumread in Divergent; none of it feels natural or real and when you're town you feel extremely real and natural to the extent that it just shines out of you. If you're town here I really need you to start committing some time and effort to the game and walking me through your what your reads are; give me a feel for your thoughts on the gamestate. What's your take on Gin right now?

Vote: Ari

[nancy]

On ari's meta: I played with town!him in perfect blue and he similarily didn't care about the game at all.

Don't think he's at all similar here to his play there? He feels town in just his first few posts there and I don't feel anything at all from him here; do you have anything actually substantive to say about my read or are you just content shrugging it off because he didn't care in some other game you remember? I haven't even argued that he's scum here because of lack of caring; I think if you actually took the time to address my post you would probably realize that.

Dark Horse can be town for now.

Nancy, don't you think Aristo is someone that will eventually sort himself? You seem to have a good amount of experience with him.

Town because...?

If I waited 3 dayphases to get a read on Ari then yes, it would probably be more accurate than my read on him right now; is that any different to any other person who I have a good meta read on? Am I not supposed to scumhunt or lynch anyone because everyone could be town and I should just wait for them to show themselves? Do you think that I've given an unfair assessment of his play this game? He hasn't responded to any of my points or shown any sign of activity since; should I just ignore that?

I can attest to this

Literally doesn't even make sense given that Ari was a blatant lurksack in Fire's game that just finished and didn't get lynched for like 4 dayphases because he wasn't attracting attention and everyone wanted to lynch everyone else who was posting a lot. Do you have an actual read on Ari? Not even sure why I'm bothering to engage with you tbh.

[nancy]

@Gin I think it's pretty reasonable to think that 115 is implying that scumreading Korts would be "dumb"; don't think that it's strange to assume that you have read the thread before making the post or that you were responding to Tchill in particular - I didn't think you were but your post comes right after Tchill's so I can see how he might've thought that. Don't think it's completely unreasonable for Tchill to vote you if he wants you to talk more; his vote isn't a particularly good one but I'm not sure it makes him scum. What low-hanging fruit has he been going after? Why are you scumreading him aside from 209?

@Tchill I'm not sure why you don't engage with Gin on her response to your vote if your intent is to get her to talk more; haven't seen you talk about most of your reads which is what you need to be doing if you're town here - in particular I'd like to hear about your townreads because I've not really felt anything solid from you in that department so far. You seem to be townreading Robbnva for coming across as genuine; is there anything else about him that makes you think he could be town here? What changed between 200 and 326 to make you feel confident in a Ginngie scumread? I think your reasoning for scumreading Ari is pretty fair; not sure that the reasoning you've expressed is strong enough to warrant the kind of scumread you've displayed given Ari's meta; if you could walk me through your Ari read that would be pretty helpful.

You haven't commented on Monkey a great deal; he's produced enough content that I think you should be able to get a read on him a little more developed than what you've stated - don't think that scumreading him for questioning Gin's townread is particularly good reasoning and I'd hope that your read would have a little more than that; in 1920 your reads were pretty on-point but you didn't explain them a lot - we talked in the dead thread about approaching the game in a certain way and being an open book; I was looking forward to seeing how you might apply that but I'm not sure I've felt anything significantly different so far and you seem to have abanonded the idea altogether if 330 is any indication - where has your head been at as far as that's concerned? Agree with massive that you should be scumhunting on your wagon not expecting other people to do so for you; feeling a little uneasy that you suggested that in the way that you did.

@Assemblerotws what scummy habits are you referring to in 172? Not sure I understand your take here; you're saying that you noticed people behaving in a way that was scummy according to what other people in the thread had pointed out? That doesn't strike me as a particularly good way to go about sorting the board; could you clarify this point for me please? I think that your reasoning for scumreading Robbnva is pretty understandable; I'm not sure why Robbnva feels that this is null behavior even if it might be a little bit of a stretch; how strong is your scumread there right now?

@Robbnva I don't think Assembler is scumreading you for having a different definition of RVS; I could understand where you were coming from with your push on Persephone for the most part even if I didn't really agree with it; don't think that it's unreasonable to see that as you pushing for a lynch off pretty much nothing when your read on Persephone at that point seemed to be based on a misunderstanding of her content. Maybe you don't think that's the case but even if Persephone was justifying herself after the fact and behaving a little awkward overall I'm not sure why that means she should just be lynched; I agree that RVS reads are legitimate and Persephone was legitimately scummy but I don't think that your approach there has been particularly reasonable overall; I don't think that her OMGUS was scummy in any special way; I disagree that she hadn't been attempting to scumhunt or sort people - I think she was pretty clearly doing so? I'm a little worried you haven't really reevaluated on the replacement and I don't strongly get the sense that you really intended to in any meaningful way - 220 felt pretty genuine but you seem to have abanonded that take pretty summarily. Tchill isn't OMGUSing you - how does that affect your read there? Why are you scumreading massive?

@massive could you articulate your Tchill townread a little more clearly? 192 is pretty vague and I'm not sure I'm going to be able to get anything out of that. Going by 194 you seem to be scumreading him or at least unwilling to townread him because you believe that he could be playing the way he's playing as scum; don't think this is good reasoning at all for maintaining a scumread even if it's pretty understandable to want to nullread him for it; by 222 he's clearly a townread - walk me through your progression there? I agree that he feels a lot like he did in 1920; not sure whether that means he's town here but I haven't seen his scumgame either - what do you think of his early interactions with the Persephone wagon? I feel like he would be talking about his reads more if he was town here; he seemed to have a pretty good grasp of his reads in 1920 and I'm not really feeling like that's the case here - he's talked about his reads a little but I feel like in all of his posts there he was solving and pushing the gamestate and he feels way more on the back foot here; even when he has been pushing scumreads I haven't strongly felt like he's arrived there naturally so much as come up with a read that seems justified.

[nancy]

@Eddie where in particular do you get the feeling that monkey is being LAMIST? I haven't gotten that sense from them a great deal (last game I played with monkey where he was scum he was super LAMIST). What about 34 from Robbnva makes you think he's just scum? Not really sure why Robbnva's push on your slot looks so overwhelmingly scum to you; Robbnva's reasoning seems pretty understandable if obviously pretty wrong; if he's the type of player to deathtunnel out of earlygame I'm not sure that that's going to be the best way to sort him; don't feel like he's grabbing for reasoning here in the way that I think he might if he were scum here; you seem to be scumreading him for what feels to me like equally dubious reasons - you're accusing him of not sorting you but you seem to be treating him in pretty much the same way; can't say I'm a huge fan of you leveraging your predecessor's newbie status as a basis for scumreading Robbnva. How much of a tendency do you have for OMGUS? Why is Ginngie tilted town; what do you mean by that? Don't really agree that the sequence you quoted is especially unlikely to come from buds; agree that they're probably unaligned but 47/48 is probably more indicative of that than anything; don't think the way that Tchill has townread Robb comes from partners pretty much ever. Don't think your slot's alignment is especially relevant to the interaction either way.

@monkey forgot to answer this earlier but you feel different too; not sure if you're aware of the difference or not but I wouldn't mind hearing about that; this is basically how I play when I'm not trolling around - Transcend's game wasn't representative of my normal play at all, especially not over the past fortnight or so (recently decided to make a pretty conscious change to my play); it's interesting that you found me intimidating there - didn't think I really was. Would be pretty helpful if you were able to dedicate some time to the game before deadline; haven't seen much from you since earlygame and I think you're probably a slot that I can sort pretty easily if I get a lot of content from you - I like what I've seen so far for the most part but your activity seems to be a problem here; your read on Tchill is a little weird and I'd like it if you were able to lock down your stance on that, especially given he seems to be one of the leading wagons right now; why would hearing his explanation for the WIFOM argument in particular make him town to you - that feels like a pretty easy criterion to fulfil and I'm not sure what you're looking for there exactly or why that would dispel your other concerns about the slot.

@massive agree that Dark Horse would probably be more likely to follow me on Ari if he were scum and Ari were town; don't think his reasoning for not doing so was particularly good; don't think that that stance from him is very good reasoning for a townread. What game with Ari did you play where he looked like he does here? Not sure what the accepted meta read of Ari is that you're referring to; my understanding of his meta is pretty much as I described it in 263 even if that was a rushed post from me; he tends to active lurk as scum and is pretty much incapable of passing off his scumhunting as town at all - probably worth mentioning that I recently townread scum!Ari for pretty much the same reasons that you/Gin/Horse are here - didn't think it was worthwhile pursuing a scumread early game and more or less assumed that he was town even though what he was posting wasn't anything very good; the fact that I have something of a scumread on him here gives me pretty bad feelings about the slot overall; I'm used to just automatically wanting to townread him and I haven't gotten that feeling at all this game.

@Gin I engage with you because I'm apparently a masochist with a misguided sense of duty. Still don't think there's ever been a point in any game we've had together where you've actually engaged with me on anything in a genuine way - I think you're a good player as either alignment but trying to have a conversation with you in mafia games feels like shredding my nails as I scale an interminable wall. Literally impossible to get a read on you when you barely talk about your reads at all and your pushes are always phenomenally bad.

[nancy]

@Korts think you've touched on some same concerns that I have regarding Tchill in your pbpa; you've pretty clearly put a lot of care into your read there - going by what you've told me in our PMs that must've cost you although you don't seem to be having a great deal of trouble with activity overall here; what are your reads outside Tchill at the moment? I think the lack of coherence in Tchill's thread presence overall is probably my main sticking point there right now; a lot of his pushes have felt a little off; feels almost like he keeps trying to fit square pegs in round holes and it just doesn't quite fit but he's trying to make it work regardless; don't think any of this is particularly strong reasoning for a scumread overall even if I'm not really seeing anyone else jump out at me right now; looking forward to seeing Tchill's response to you / hearing back from him about the points that I've raised to hopefully get a better feel for my read there. What about 247 is a red flag for you? You seem to be a little bothered overall by what feels like buddying to you; don't think there's anything particularly scummy about buddying but I think it's pretty understandable that you might be inclined to scumread it under the circumstances; wouldn't mind if you went into a little more detail on what you're feeling there overally; what in particular about the interaction with Ginngie felt suspicious to you?

@Tchill saying that you're usually pretty scummy day 1 isn't helpful; if you're town here defending yourself with WIFOM isn't what you need to be doing right now; why do you like Kort's case? Need a lot more from you than this if you want to avoid being lynched and I think you need to talk about why Korts has a wrong read rather than just shrugging your shoulders and saying good game; pretty much agree with Gin that you genuinely don't feel comfortable here and that's a lot of the reason why I'm scumreading you; if this is your towngame then you need to be doing a better job of showing it and if what you're doing right now is not caring how you're being viewed then I think you probably need to start caring.

I kind of scumread Ari's replace out to be honest. Not really sure it's exactly good form to talk about it though, so.

@Dark Horse disagree that he looks the same in Perfect Blue; his posting there is much freer than what he's shown here; in his second post he's talking about self-meta in a productive way and shows belief in himself being townread; that's basically lacking in his play here; in his third post he's taking the initiative and interacting in a pretty clean way - there's a confidence and humor there that doesn't really appear in his ISO here; he's interacting with wagons and players substantively in the early game and I don't see him active lurking later either; there's not a significant amount of fluff; pretty much don't see the similarities that you're seeing at all; disagree that my take on 203 is a stretch - quoting someone else's post without really any interaction otherwise is pretty awkward communication whichever way you look at it; not sure you're really reading into my reasoning here if that's the extent of your opinion on it; think Ari pretty clearly is lacking in a lot of the things that make him town here and 203 is a piece of that - possible that RL got in the way of the game for him and his play here is null but I'm not really sure there's any meaningful indication of that being the case.

@Eddie have we played together before? Not really sure why you'd be looking for specific things from me.

@Robbnva wasn't saying you'd said Tchill was OMGUSing you; was commenting on the fact that part of your reasoning for scumreading Eddie's slot is that Persephone was OMGUSing you; Tchill isn't - mainly curious how this factors into your read there. Could you go over what about massive's reasoning for his votes you think are terrible? I'd have to go back over massive's ISO to be honest to give any kind of a real take on your reasoning in 120; not going to happen when I'm half-fainting from this migraine; not sure I agree that there's no town motivation in massive's post - probably something to come back to a little later down the line; maybe premature but I think massive has already displayed the kind of depth of reasoning and drive to solve here that I think is out of his range as scum even if he only has 18 posts so far.

Pretty much done for now unfortunately; hopefully my migraine passes by tomorrow and I can finish catching up. Not really satisfied with the reasoning for Tchill being scum so far; my scumread there feels pretty tentative and I think my problems with the slot overall are definitely things that I could see being resolved depending on what I see from him over the next few pages / how he responds to my read; still think Ari's slot is probably a better place to look for scum depending on what happens with the replacement.

[nancy]

@Gin I was under the impression you were referring to Ari when you made the comment about a day 3 IC? Wrt 393 I agree that the votes haven't been good from that slot; your wagon analysis there reads like you're assuming your scumreads are correct - how does that scenario change if one of them is town / they're not buds?

Robbvna is more of a guy feel for his hard tunnel on rvs and trying to get reads and reactions based on his hard tunnel. As for monkey he sits null for me. I'm not sure why he'd question a town read on himself on day 1. That just seems odd to me.

Think it's a pretty basic thing to be a little paranoid about someone townreading you for reasons you don't really understand; don't think this is good reasoning for a scumread; what's your take on the rest of his content? A little worried that you don't seem to have any other reads than the ones you've given here to be honest; in 1920 you seemed to have something to say about pretty much everyone - what's different here?

@Mod extend deadline please.

And you overshot.

Hi?

If we can get an extension I'll probably just take today off; migraine isn't gone and the screen is a mess of distorted color to my brain right now so I don't really want to have to grind the catchup if I don't have to.

[nancy]

Alright I'm caught up finally; I flat don't believe Vecna's claim at all; literally nothing about the way he claimed is town and if he did have a confirmable pr I think he would be a fuck of a lot more indignant about being run up than he has been; the kind of survivalism that he's displayed in the claim is something that I think is far more likely to come from scum and what basically amounts to a sigh of regret in 555 isn't something that I find believable at all from a PR who knows that they can confirm themselves through night actions. Not interested in lynching anywhere else today; the claim aside I think he's completely flat tonally, I dislike his progressions, I dislike his votes, I dislike basically everything coming from that slot right now.

I think the way he entered with a scumread on me is pretty sketchy given that I think I've been pretty transparently town this game and was the only slot pushing him at that point in time; Civilization was months ago and I was a newbie and VI back then, absolutely no way I should be playing like that anymore - think if Vecna were town he would be pretty happy to see the development in my play rather than scumread me for it in the way that he has; pretty obvious difference I think in his treatment of that compared with the way monkey has been overall hesistant about it and has actually engaged with it critically overall - especially considering how recent my game with monkey was.

I dislike the way that he's tried to play up the Korts/monkey/massive trio as something to orient his reads / the gamestate around; it feels like faux-scumhunting and I think it's a pretty easy way to posture around scumreading a slot you've stated a townread on and just a fake way to hold scumreads in general; the progression from his entrance where Korts looks like a pretty strong townread to 489 to voting Korts isn't one that makes sense to me at all; 577 feels pretty ad-hoc overall and I don't think someone having different reads than you do is good reasoning at all and not something that Vecna would scumread if he were town.

The way that he's interacted with Tchill feels particularly sketchy in that he initially came in saying that the reasoning for scum!Tchill was pretty poor then moved to voting him right after Korts started pushing that wagon again; think the way that unvoted and suddenly seemed fine with Tchill's play after the vigilante claim then voted him again for pretty much no reason at all is pretty bad. The way that he's engaged with Tchill overall from the claim to the appeasing and everything is just not something that makes sense coming from town pretty much ever. 540 and 543 in particular are just obscenely scummy.

Don't think he's actually given any substantive reasoning for his massive scumread or really any of his scumreads at all for that matter; haven't seen him display any kind of feeling about his townreads; think he's probably pretty content to scumread just about anyone here and nothing he's done so far has felt like he cares about solving the game so much as looking for slots he thinks he can lynch. Basically don't think there's anything from his play that could make me believe he's town here.

[nancy]

I'm at the head of the wagon babe.

VOTE: Vecna

For emphasis?

[nancy]

oh shit you bold your votes, I always use tags and keep track mentally

I bold my votes when it's a scumread I'm not really sure on. Vote tags means that I'm pretty darn confident. Probably something like 60-65% or lower would be a bolded vote; above that I'd use the tags; might depend on context too even if it's a read I feel good about, there are circumstances where I won't always feel great about pushing it for any number of reasons.

[nancy]

sorry for being so quiet but as you can see, I can kinda easily burn through all my posts in about a day or two of actually talking because I get aggressive >_>

After this I'll have 13 posts left in the day and I think I'll save that for tomorrow in case ya'll make me get up out of my rocking chair and whip votes.

Haven't actually been trying to conserve mine (although I think I was at the start of the day), just haven't been caught up the whole time so all my posts ended up being catchup walls.

[nancy]

This does give me a pretty good buffer going into tomorrow though I think; definitely will have to scale back my posting compared to how I usually am which I don't think will be a bad thing given that I can definitely be pretty lazy a lot of the time and not really put a ton of thought into things as I post them - kind of what I'm trying to eliminate in my meta shift.

[nancy]

If he actually is a PR, I'd like to know more. If what we learn isn't satisfactory, I'd like to lynch him.

Can we skip the hearing his fakeclaim part and just lynch him?

[nancy]

@Vecna could you explain your progression on Tchill please; I think the way that you said a Tchill scumflip would be useful then expressed dissatisfaction with the reasoning for Tchill scumreads despite not having anything more yourself is pretty ??? and I basically don't understand at all how you can be okay with lynching someone you think is town just so that you can see if there's something fishy going on with three other of your reads; information lynches are a pretty good way to lose games for town and win games for scum and I don't see you as a particularly bad town player so I'm not sure where you're coming from with that angle - this kind of relates to the way that I feel like you've been shopping for lynches more than genuinely trying to gamesolve in your ISO so far; also find the way that you were telling Tchill that you'd unvote him if he voted with you to be a little sketchy and I'm wondering if this is an interaction going back to your last game together or whether that's something that you regularly do when you're town. I don't understand how you can say that you're fine lynching Tchill because he exited thread then say later that you were only trying to get negative attention to save him; that just feels completely ad-hoc to me.

I don't understand why you think Tchill being a Vigilante explains the differences in his play or why you put the vote back on the slot when he doesn't stay in thread after claiming; if you did actually recognize why you could've been misreading him I don't see why that goes away a few posts later; the fact that you started pushing the slot again feels particularly unsettling to me considering that if Tchill is Vigilante then he's probably shooting you tonight; this again goes back to the way that I don't really feel like you have any genuine reads here - you seem to pretty much be twisting whatever you have at hand to suit your read; as an extension of that I don't think that 526 make sense as a justification for you there when Tchill seems quite a lot like lynchbait from the two games I've seen of him. Basically have a ton of problems with your treatment of Tchill here along with pretty much everyone else.

In response to 595, don't really feel like you've addressed my points here at all; not entirely sure I believe that you had the precognition to see Tchill/Gin voting you; think that if you had then you would've displayed the same kind of annoyance much earlier at whatever point you did have it - I'm not finding anything in your ISO that could suggest that line of thought from you and I don't see how 608 lines up with that at all; don't think that this amounts to any more than a deflection from you overall; don't think that softing PR makes your claim automatically real and I don't know that you should expect anyone else to feel differently; not sure where you're seeing me say that I wasn't obvtown in Civ - I think I played a very different game there and I don't think that anyone who has read that game can say with a straight face that I was anything but a VI for 90%+ of the game; I think that if you actually cared about reading me for alignment here you wouldn't make the kind of assumptions that you've made about my meta; think that the kind of reasoning you've shown wrt lynching Tchill is exactly the kind of thing that comes from scum; you've seemed pretty fine with Tchill being lynched overall and have been pushing his wagon and never really defending him so again I don't understand where you're coming from here; I think if I'm going to be able to see that you're town here you're absolutely going to need to walk me through your reads / progressions because so far I don't feel like I've gotten anything solid from you at all; you can continue to be grumpypants and whine about how my meta has changed and refuse to engage with me if you like but it's not going to help either of us if you're town. I'm probably unvoting you here if you're not counterclaimed by another protective and let night actions sort you but I absolutely need to see more from you than what you've given me so far because I think I'm probably being more than a little generous when I say that your play here has just been hot garbage.

[nancy]

Kind of here; just woke up a bit ago and not really with it / pretty deflated overall for ~reasons~ but am here.

@Eddie it makes sense for monkey to ask me; I was just in his first newbie on site.

@monkey you can't just claim PR without specification; it's super sketchy because if you're scum you've literally just given yourself free room to suit your claim to whatever you want. I don't want you to fullclaim unless you need to but just don't claim like that in the future. If your role doesn't make sense with Vecna's then claim.

Don't understand how the game is completely dead at deadline and no one PMed RC for an extension. I'd probably suggest flashwagoning Assembler at this point but I don't know if we even have the votes for it.

[nancy]

Enough fooling around with other wagons, guys. For anyone who needs a reminder, go reread Vecna from Tchill's claim onward. How is the PR claim believable after all that implosion?

yeah I'm legit disgusted that most of the game dodged ALL DAY. I'll literally vote anyone at this point we need a lynch. if you're town you should feel bad unless you have a very legitimate irl reason

Yeah we don't have have plurality here so we 100% need to maj.

[nancy]

I don't know which roles doesn't make sense with JK. I'm not that knowledgeable about roles
Also, I PMed RC for an extension. It feels like scum is okay with the situation right now so I even doubt my Vecna vote.

Yeah I was thinking that too; unless less than 4 town sent in the PM which feels pretty unbelievable? I don't know it is the Normal queue though.

[nancy]

@monkey don't think you ended up responding to this?

your read on Tchill is a little weird and I'd like it if you were able to lock down your stance on that

i will in a few.

[nancy]

Nevermind; just remembered you did answer it; my brain isn't really here atm.

[nancy]

I'll bet you hard cash that I'm town this game. Is that allowed on this site?

Yeah no don't do that at all ever.

[nancy]

I hate normals

Literally no idea why I /inned at this point.

[nancy]

Oh you're on set that's really neat? What are you shooting?

I don't entirely disagree monkey but I'm not sure where we're getting the votes from here; there are only 4 of us active here and Vecna is the only wagon with more than 2 votes.

[nancy]

Oh shit I forgot you were a Philippino.

[nancy]

Do you think we should wait to see if others go online or should we just lynch Vecna right now?

We don't even have enough to maj Vecna right now; think we just have to stick around and F5 and hope that a few other people get on; pretty much anything at this point that isn't a PR would be a pretty good deal. Definitely don't think that you should self-lynch in any universe even if you think Vecna is town.

[nancy]

Nancy, do you think I should opt to lynch Vecna if I don't think he's scum than to no-lynch? No lynch is pretty controversial in this site.

No Lynch is super super super shit; so no.

[nancy]

If it's any consolation to you I did scumread your hop on earlier pretty hard.

[nancy]

UNVOTE:

[nancy]

The day has begun and will end in (expired on 2017-08-13 23:00:00).

pedit dude we still have time

[nancy]

I'd rather lynch someone who's literally done nothing all day and hasn't claimed PR. If 2-3 more people get on before deadline we should be able to lynch outside Vecna/monkey.

[nancy]

Vote: Assembler

Dark Horse, Sunlit, Gin, Eddie, monkey, other person

[nancy]

Please don't use that word monkey.

[nancy]

The day has begun and will end in (expired on 2017-08-13 23:00:00).

[nancy]

Sorry nancy

It's fine. Thanks for apologizing.

[nancy]

You talking about Vecna?

[nancy]

Computer got stolen prodge back when I can

[nancy]

I'm not really fit for mafia right now. Can someone ask me stuff or talk to me or something so I can try to get a foothold back in the game? I just feel lost and I need a hydra partner.

[nancy]

Feeling a little bit better today but definitely concerned that no one responded to my reach out; don't get the sense that anyone is really interested in actually talking / playing mafia here so much as having shouting matches and going in circles insisting that they're "more right"; the fact that I have no idea why Eddie/Korts are being scumread despite several people having stated that they want to lynch them doesn't feel like a particularly good sign - definitely would like to hear some reasoning there especially from slots that don't seem to be actively pushing them / aren't doing a lot in thread right now.

@Gamma why are you scumreading Korts? Would definitely like to hear about your progression there; you mentioned your scumread on him was weakening part way through your catchup but ended up seeming basically convinced that he's scum asking people to sheep you and there was never any real sign of why / how any of that was happening - pretty worried about how little your reads changed at all over the course of ~35 pages overall. Basically dislike your stance on Ginngie being that you scumread her but aren't going to push her + are more or less ignoring her slot / the IC claim - feels a lot like you're holding on to a scumread there until mod confirmation forces you away from it; basically don't understand any of your reads at this point. Also I'm not sure why you're saying we haven't played together when I was scum against you in that off-site game?

@Korts I don't understand why you're voting Robbnva? Because of the bad logic or because of the way he reacted to you or something else? Definitely would like to hear about where that vote is coming from because the timing of it is pretty ??? in that it feels almost more like an emotional response than actually thinking that Robbnva is scum; think that your catchup so far has been pretty decent but I'd definitely like to hear more about what's going into your reads / see into your process a little more clearly - think that you've been a little opaque and would really like for that to change if at all possible to help me feel better about my read on you.

I realize you're only on page 14? but definitely interested to hear about your Tchill/monkey reads in particular; think that at this point focusing on Robb as heavily as you have been isn't going to be very helpful at all so I'd definitely like to hear your thoughts on slots other than his in some more substantive ways; pretty much thinking that if you're not able to engage with him without tilting then maybe try to ignore him as best you can and focus elsewhere? Really don't want to have any more replace outs and I basically doubt that you two have any hope of understanding each other this game. If you do think he's scum I'd definitely like to hear why; don't really like anything he's done this game and the way that his thread presence seems to basically consist of creating noise and OMGUSing anyone who pushes back on him isn't something I'm inclined to townread at all; the progression of not feeling good about his reads to having what basically look like lockscum reads / telling people to sheep him when he gets lynched in particular isn't one that makes sense to me at all - if you have any thoughts on that I'd be interested to hear them.

@Tchill if you're vig you absolutely have to shoot to confirm yourself; pretty much the only reason there isn't a substantial wagon on you right now is that your claim is confirmable; not shooting last night put the game into evens so I don't understand that position from you at all. Really need to hear some reasoning from you on any of your reads here because I haven't seen anything different about your play today and that's not something I feel good about at all.


Pretty sad that Eddie is gone; definitely have thought about replacing out myself on more than one occasion; not really finding this game enjoyable at all and finding it pretty difficult to do anything as a result. Not really sure why I joined the normal queue tbh.

[nancy]

What do you mean by towny / poor angles? Not sure I understand you there; definitely need more from you than just a cursory one-word take on his content so far - he's produced more substantive content than a lot of players here right now including me so I don't feel like there should be any real lack of ability to talk about why on your read there; think if you're town here you need to do a lot more work in showing how you're getting to your reads because I'm not really seeing that from you right now. I'm not really feeling too much better about you than your predecessor although your treatment of Robbnva overall has been pretty decent I think; a lot of my concerns are just that I don't really understand your pushes / the progression on your reads so that's definitely something I'd like addressed - what do you dislike about the Tchill vote? Why are you townreading Tchill aside from the claim? Why are you townreading Grendel in particular as strongly as you are? Don't understand the move from lean town in 913 to basically telling people not to scumhunt him in 999? If you could run through that for me that would be pretty helpful.

Thanks for the invite but I'm not really visiting the site anymore + am overgamed and not into mafia at all right now after ~1-2 things that happened recently so I don't think I'll take you up on it sorry; doubt I'll be joining any more games anywhere for the time being except maybe on MU if I see a playerlist that I really like; if I do play one here it'll 100% be in a hydra with someone like Prism/Plotinus/mastina who I really enjoy spending time with / feel understood by.

Also I wasn't in GiF's game I don't think unless you're referring to something else.

[nancy]

It's objectively worse to shoot a townie. I'm not talking about it anymore it's a waste of time.

Think it's a pretty legitimate concern so I'm not really sure you can afford to just pretend it doesn't exist here; shooting town is 100% going to happen when you're a Vigi and not shooting anyone because you're afraid to misfire isn't a reasonable position at all unless you think it will put the game into MyLo/LyLo / don't have any scumreads you feel good about at all which I don't think is something that really ever happens - shooting lurkers / mislynch bait slots can absolutely be pro-town and I'm not sure why you're arguing otherwise.

[nancy]

I get that Tchill and the fact that you didn't shoot last night isn't really one of my concerns with you right now personally (you couldn't have shot anyway since you were jailed by Vecna) just as long as you understand that probably the biggest reason why you're not scum here is that you've claimed Vigilante - if you're not shooting that becomes pretty problematic. You're right that it's not something that needs to be talked about because it's irrelevant as soon as you do shoot but that does absolutely need to happen and arguing that you don't want to shoot tonight because you might hit town isn't really acceptable here; does that make sense? Basically just wanting to make sure that you confirm your role here so we don't have to worry about your slot anymore.

[nancy]

Will try to make some proper time for this game soon.

@Gamma still waiting on pretty much any meaningful response from you on your scumreads / reads in general; re 1023 townreading Tchill for some of the reads that he's made isn't something that I can make sense of without elaboration - would definitely like you to talk about what you mean there / which reads specifically you think he's had that he wouldn't have had as scum here; think that if you genuinely want to guide people to your reads then the way to do is going to be to talk about why / your reasoning - expecting people to just sheep your read because it's something you're saying they should believe in isn't going to get you very far at all in the best of circumstances.

Eddie read in particular is something that I'm struggling to see from you right now on top of what I've already brought up with you; don't understand at all how you go from having Eddie as a townread and telling Robb that his scumread there is wrong / Eddie's effort was town in 953 (really not understanding what "don't have the details for that yet" means there, please explain that) to saying that you wouldn't be upset if Eddie was vigged and that you can't recall anything from him that's pro-town in 1064, as well as what feels like a ton of dissonance in the sequence around 972/979 overall - not really finding your response to monkey in 1097 on that point particuarly sensible when the question there is about the stance of being open to lynch Eddie despite having stated pretty strongly (?) that you felt the slot was town, not your interaction with Robbnva - feels a little like a dodge from you there and your progression on the slot overall has been pretty troubling + haven't even heard what your reasoning for the townread was in the first place or what changed that; really need you to start being clear on your process there at this point please.

[nancy]

Quickly jumping in here before I head to bed; monkey just want to let you know that I do appreciate you responding to my reachout and I'd like to give you an answer but I don't really know where to begin when "thoughts on my thoughts/reads so far" encompasses a lot of content and without feeling all that good about things myself I don't know what good I'd be doing you; I'd planned on doing a thread reread today but a bunch of things hit me at once and kept me away from the game. Probably doesn't help a lot that your walls are generally really hard to read with the way they're formatted + the lack of post links, generally just super difficult to keep a track of what you're talking about at all unless I run along thread with you post by post which is hugely time consuming / effort intensive and I feel like this game kind of just kills my spirit already which might also be why I'm finding it hard to respond to you on that. If you could ask any more specific questions that would probably be pretty helpful though.

As far as your ending reads at least I know I was feeling like Eddie was town so that's definitely a read I'd like to engage you on as soon as I've reread and have time (although the dayphase has already completely gone so I may have to hold off doing an actual reread until tomorrow); I think you're missing Tchill/Gin in your readslist? By the looks of it you're not really having any strong feelings about a lot of players either right now so maybe we can help each other get more engaged in the game and pull things out of just null? Talk to me about your Gamma read?

[nancy]

Have a few things I need to do today before I can get to this but will make this game priority until deadline; will be around in ~4-5 hours.

I don't have a read on Math yet.

[nancy]

@Math

I don't understand how you're reading that post is stalling out conversation at all; don't really understand why you're reading that post in particular as too wordy either; think I've been pretty wordy this game but I don't think that post is offensive in that way at all; not entirely sure what about that you actually dislike - I'm sorry if you think that I'm not saying anything very useful. If you think I could be wording things in a better way / more concisely then I'd be welcome to hear how you'd write it differently, am always working to tighten up my game and pretty receptive to anything that I could potentially improve on, think that right now I probably have the tendency to be a little more verbose than I need to be because I'm still figuring out exactly what feels most important to me to get across or what I feel needs to be said / what I can basically just trim as fat with the way that I'm playing now.

Don't understand how you're saying that I should have a read on you in two posts just because that's what happened in GiF's game, especially considering that's not how it was in Night & Day; feel like you should be aware that I don't trust my tonal read on you nearly as much after that game and I feel like we've already had this conversation there too; don't understand why you're bringing it up again; I don't claim to have a soulread on you and never have and it's upsetting to me when people tell me I should be able read them in a certain way when I think that's an unrealistic expectation. I know you think I'm a confident Annabelle but none of what you see there is real of my experience; I'm not a confident person, I never have been and I basically dislike the characterization because it's a misunderstanding; part of me changing my meta is so that I can try to express that and other aspects of myself that people don't seem to ever get. Why are Titus/Ginngie scum?

[nancy]

@monkey

Link to the game? Think you're seeing a lot of the same things in Gamma that I am right now; haven't had time to respond to his latest stuff yet but pretty much nothing he's given me so far has really done anything to change my read. I initially liked the way he was engaging with Robbnva partly from his tone and just the way he seemed to want to reason with Robbnva there but I think the stance on Eddie pretty much ruins it for me overall when I look at the trajectory of his read on the slot; also think that there's some pretty clear scum motivation in warming up to someone like Robbnva and talking your way into a position that allows you to reasonably compromise on a townread (and the way that he backed off the townread there I think is even more difficult for me to understand in a town!Gamma world in that context but something that makes a lot of sense in a scum!Gamma one).

[nancy]

Putting this here to give attention to when I can.

Spoiler:

Eddie Cane's entrance is suspect. Instead admitting to Percy's obviously scummy play, he doubles down. This is a play that does not make sense as town.
#286-#292 makes little sense.
#293 His read on Robb is not something I can agree to disagree. tunneling is not scum. I don't get too how he would have read ginngie as townlean. "They're too lamisty if ya know what I mean" takes shortcuts instead of actually demonstrating what he means.

#305
Eddie makes a misrepresenting statement about TChill's play to prove a point that TChill is town. It's consistent with the Percy-TChill S+S relationship.

#342
Eddie backtracks after being called out. He also starts to acknowledge Percy's scumminess. And somehow this does not absolve Robb of anything. Says he has no choice but to vote him but that's not true. He presents an interesting case against TChill. He townleans assemble—but why?

#467
This confirms that Eddie Cane was in it only to destablize Robb's stance to the whole majority. He blames the majority for not telling him it regular occurence when I recall that he was told of it. However: "right now id say I have robb 60/40 town and 80/20 odds on him replying this saying I'm still scum or not replying." This makes me think that it's more scum-motivated because this looks like a gag order to Robb. In that context, the sudden change of stance looks as if it's a means to pocket someone. Also, this moves makes most sense as scum because even after that 1v1, no one was looking at Robb as scum.

#600
This is the weakest in that wagon. Eddie goes from townreading Vecna to an unexplained vote wanting a full claim. He didn't make the effort to challenge his idea, he just went straight to it. #617
After getting his fullclaim, even tho he expresses his doubts about it, Eddie then votes me. I think Eddie's behavior around Vecna's claim is scum-motivated.

#629
Flip-floppy Eddie Cane. I don't buy that "too low on time" spiel here considering he was here for the duration of the day and he had read.

#633 #645
I don't really get why Eddie would vote me.

#665
I stand by the fact that Eddie noticing scum not voting for an extension to be highly scummy. It's sorta feels like something only scum would notice.
He also says lynching assemble gives us 0 info which is wrong. Assemble's flip is the best info we will get from the slot apart from a replacement because him playing won't give us anything.
He makes a fair point about stalling, but not buddying. I don't see anything wrong with buddying with your top town read.

#671
He washes his hands about the whole "I didn't ask you to claim" when he was the one who pushed me so:

"and no, asking nancy is not the correct way. that's called buddying and stalling. you have no idea if shell be on in the next 12 hours, you expect us to analyze your claim in whatever time period we have left after she tells you to claim, and you expect us to build another wagon in said time period? people on this site aren't active enough for that, not even close."

#686 #688
Eddie's frustration feels fake for me so this frustration could also come from scum. The aggressiveness is off.

[nancy]

nancy, shouldn't you be more suspicious and hostile to Math after that shit analysis on you (and everyone else, actually)? Why are you apologetic to him? It sounds like you've enjoyed the seat of high tow-cred for so long that it made you sensitive to shakeups/votes. And that's something that could make most sense if you're scum.

Wow. That's my first scumtell on you in the thread apart from metaanalysis.

Math and I are close friends and have a good amount of history outside of this game; probably not something that I'm going to be able to explain, suffice it to say that Math is someone who has shown me more kindness on MS than a lot of other people and even if this weren't a game where I was already feeling beaten down mentally then I would be treating them this way, at least I hope so - I don't know why they were so hostile to me but if they're scum I'll probably be able to figure that out before too long; regardless of their alignment I've done way too much fighting with friends in games recently and I just don't want to anymore. Whether or not their analysis is good isn't really going to be how you get a read on Math here.

[nancy]

monkey serious question - why haven't you talked much about dildos this game?

[nancy]

I don't have the energy to explain right now so I'll just quote my post from another game. I wasn't referring to whether I thought it was scummy or not, just that I don't want to argue with them; if this is going to be a game where I have to get into arguments in order to play then I'm going to replace out - don't think that scumreading someone means you have to get into arguments with them; don't think that apologizing to a scumread is scummy. Don't understand what you're thinking was ending discussion; I was reaching out to them and I think if they're town they'll respond significantly differently to that than they would if they're scum (and me saying this won't change that - they're not able to replicate their towngame as scum despite being fully aware of their meta).

Spoiler:

MathBlade is sadly scum but I don't quite know how to express this one - it's a combination of a tonal read and a meta read. Their scumgame and their towngame is super super different and it's pretty noticeable to anyone who's familiar with their meta. Basically, the simplest way I can put it is.. if it feels like they're reasonable.. they're scum. If they're butting their heads against a brick wall that is reason, in *defiance* of reason, they're town. So you definitely need to be able to read tone to tell the difference. But you need the meta to *know* the difference, to know what to look for tonally. And they're just scum this game. Sorry Math. <3

[nancy]

Math honey I wasn't trying to tug your heartstrings, don't know why you're reading it that way.

I don't know why I'm still awake.

[nancy]

Vote: Titus

Am extremely fucking incapacitated right now and could not play mafia to save my life but I think I'll have time before deadline still to get out thoughts when I'm back on earth

[nancy]

I targeted Tchill.

I have a migraine and I haven't slept but I'll be around when I'm able.

[nancy]

Not commenting on the claim until everyone has checked in. Gamma if you're around I'd like to go over a few things with you please.

Can we please stop misgendering Ginngie.

[nancy]

I'd like to hear you talk about your reads; if you want to pick ~2-3 that you want to talk about most or give a broader view of them that would be fine. There are a few things in particular that I'd like to talk to you about but let's start with that.

[nancy]

Math is town.

How far away is 8:40?

[nancy]

You mean Night & Day?

[nancy]

Math how much of the game have you read?

[nancy]

Alright. I don't really want to touch on Ginngie myself for personal reasons but if you think that she's town here I'd welcome hearing why you think that / what you think is similar about her play here to mastina's game.

Would also like to hear from massive if possible on why he townreads Gamma.

[nancy]

Disastrous results?

[nancy]

Gamma when you get back I'd really like it if you could go over your Grendel/Korts/Eddie reads for me because those are the ones I understand least from you; I have some pretty specific concerns there but I'd like it if you ran me through what each of your reads there is / how you got there before I go into more detail on that. If you think the flips have affected your read at all I'd like it if you talked about that / why too.

[nancy]

If you're able to talk in any more depth than that massive I'd really appreciate it; not really concerned with your progression there so much as what you're actually seeing right now. I think the reasoning you've given so far is pretty shallow and not really anything I can follow so walking me through your read there a little would be pretty helpful. If you want to talk about your Sunlit read too I'd welcome that.

[nancy]

Math I don't understand why it's a shame you had to compromise yesterday when you wanted to lynch monkey? Why is Vedith town?

Vote: Gamma

[nancy]

Math I'm trying to understand you. If you want to scumread me that's fine but can you please at least try and put that aside when you engage with me? I didn't get the sense you were compromising on your read on me given that you townread me after I responded to you + you realized you had misunderstood me; don't really understand why that changed.

[nancy]

Math I voted Titus because it was the only viable wagon that I thought had a chance of flipping scum; I don't understand why you think that I manipulated you. Gamma isn't back yet.

[nancy]

I'm not really interested in talking more about my read there when I haven't engaged with him in the ways that I want to yet.

[nancy]

I'm not really interested in talking more about my read there when I haven't engaged with him in the ways that I want to yet.

Then why are you interested in my read on him?

Because you townread him and I want to respect that but your reasoning so far is super vague and not really helpful to me. I'm not a scumhunting god and when people disagree with my reads I generally want to know what they're seeing that I'm not; saying that you think he's been transparent doesn't help me at all when I don't think that's strong reasoning for a townread and I don't really think that he has; I don't understand what you liked about his Grendel reachout; I don't know what you found understandable about Sunlit or what about their effort you liked. I think it would be pretty arrogant of me to just shrug my shoulders and say okay I don't agree with massive that's too bad he must be wrong there's nothing to talk about, especially when I don't even really understand your read there in the first place.

[nancy]

Grendel has a solving quality to his play as town that I've been receiving here. It's a judgment based on his own analysis of his scumplay actually, as well as applying my previous attempt at reading him, which succeeded.

Could you quote some of his posts you think have that quality / talk about how his scumplay is different please?

[nancy]

Grendel could you talk about where your reads are at with humeaneatingmonkey flipping town please? If you don't have time to talk about all of them then maybe pick ~2-3 that feel most important to you? Your progression on me/Robbnva in particular is something I don't really understand; I'd like to know what changed between 1133 where you seem to have a pretty tentative townread on me and 1152 where I'm your top townread and just your earlier treatment of Robbnva in general where it looks like you're townreading him but have him as a nullread (?) once you put out a readslist.

[nancy]

Gamma Emerald I've been trying to engage with you since yesterday. You've been half-answering or not answering me almost the entirety of that time. At this point I'm just waiting to have the spoons to talk about my read on you because I'm not getting anything from you, right now I don't have spoons but I just woke up from my nap so I don't really know how I feel yet, but the difficulty I've had just trying to get you to talk about your reads in any depth is absolutely one of those concerns; I don't understand how you can say that I am stalling when you've just skipped answering most of my post to you on the other page and I have resorted to asking for just as little as quotes from you as a result.

[nancy]

Lmao.

How do you have a scumteam pick on page 7? Why do I weakly look town there when you don't have any markings for me until 1114? How are you reasonably certain massive is town at that point? I don't understand how your reads in 1337 line up with your notes. Was there a substantive reason why you don't have question marks around your scumreads?

I'm feeling a rare bit of happiness at the moment for ~reasons~ so I think I'll talk about my read on Gamma Emerald a bit.

[nancy]

I'll go into detail on everything when I can but it's basically his progressions / lack of reasoning / pushes that's bothering me the most. Some of this I've talked about but I think I'll probably just go over things again regardless when I do.

I'm a little unsettled by the way that he came into the game scumreading Korts at a point when several people were scumreading the slot then proceeded to not talk about why with it sitting in a holding position at the bottom of his readslist; I don't think it makes a lot of sense to give that read as little attention as he has if he's town. I think the lack of progression on that read and sequences like 891->892->894->908 in particular are decently scum indicative; I don't understand how he goes from feeling more sure in his scumread there in 1110 to preferring Titus as a lynch in 1154 - he hasn't pushed the slot since and either forgot that he was scumreading it until I asked him for his take there or just didn't care about the read to the point that he didn't mention it in 1265 when I asked him broadly what his reads were; I don't understand why he's interacting with Drixx as if he's a townread in 1304; I think he's probably never scum with Drixx just from the way that he's been tunneled on the slot + the way that Korts has basically ignored him for the majority of the game.

His treatment of Grendel has been a weird mix of confidence and waffle in a way that I think points somewhat to them being aligned; I don't understand why he's townreading Grendel and I think that if Grendel is scum then justifying a townread there with meta is a pretty safe way to go about the read. I think the progression from telling massive to trust him that Grendel is town to pulling him down to a weak townread after being questioned on the read is something that I don't really understand if Gamma is town really having that read; the reasoning for his townread there is pretty shallow and I'd like to know what it is about Grendel's posts he thinks is gamesolvey and why that makes Grendel town.

I think the way that he talks about liking massive's posts without ever townreading him is a little unsettling and it bothers me that his read there hasn't evolved at all except for a weird bump where he's suddenly townreading massive in 1300 before pulling him back down to a nullread in 1304; asking massive to claim in 1332 is really sketchy. I've just about run out of spoons now but I also have a bunch of issues with the way he went from basically townreading Robbnva all game to the point that he was willing to lynch his townreads to placate him to scumreading MathBlade starting around 1203 - 1203 is pretty offputting considering he townread Grendel for the same thing in 911; think there's some weird dissonance there in saying he's looking forward to working with MathBlade then quickly scumreading him for what looks like having different reads than he does + ignoring my read there when he's been shifting his reads to align with other slots throughout the game.

I don't get how he goes from having Ginngie as his top scumread to having her as his top townread in the space of a few posts; I was really bothered with how he never seemed to want to push her and really just never seemed to want to push any of his scumreads despite apparently feeling pretty strongly about them; and I don't consider repeatedly voting your scumread without talking about why they're scum or posts like 981 to really be pushing them, at least not in a way that tells me you have a read you believe in and want to lynch it which I think is a pretty important difference. I think it's a little weird that he's not bringing up meta with me at all when pretty much everyone else lately seems obsessed with me not playing like I have been in the past when they've been trying to sort me. There's other stuff too that I'll get to at some point but I think I talked about most of the main stuff at least a little bit.

[nancy]

Why are you scumreading me, massive?

[nancy]

Well I don't really scumread him for starters. You realize Ginngie retracted, right?

[nancy]

What do you mean dispute it? I don't understand what you're referring to.

[nancy]

I am going away with my girlfriend for a few days and I won't have Internet access while I'm gone.

[nancy]

Interesting. Grendel why are you trying to sus out if I'm legit when I am/was your top townread? Has your read on me changed since 1152? Why is Ginngie definitely town and why are you asking MathBlade about her meta if you're already convinced of that?

If you could go back and respond to 1329 that would be pretty helpful; if you disagree with my read there I'd like it if you talk about why and what your own read there is in as much detail as you're willing to go into. Gamma Emerald was scum in Kingdom Hearts and made the same kind of meta connection there; I don't think forgetting that it's not LyLo is a particularly good reason for a townread even if you do think that he legitimately forgot.

[nancy]

To be honest I'm starting to feel like Grendel is just opposing whatever lynch I push this game; I don't understand how he's townreading me as hard as he is when our reads have been so different all game and he doesn't seem to agree with anything that I'm doing. Really interested to hear why and how strongly he's townreading Gamma Emerald here and what exactly his reads are right now because very little of his play here makes sense to me.

[nancy]

massive are you still planning on going over reads? I'm out the door soon so it doesn't look like I'll have the chance to talk them over with you if you do but I can at least review them when I get back presuming we haven't lynched by then.

[nancy]

I'm back! \o/

And I care even less about mafia than ever

[nancy]

Lmao, I love how everyone went from saying role madness to I'm scum because PR

[nancy]

I'm a 2-shot tracker, I targeted Tchill mostly in case he was roleblocked or to catch him in a lie or rule out any other shenanigans, didn't actually expect him to get shot last night since I think we'd be in mylo if he was alive and shooting tonight

I don't really have the care level to say stuff properly but I don't think the way Gamma's responded to being L-1 is town, don't really know why massive being in a weird tunnel is the thing he most wants to talk about there + not doing anything with the fact that he's L-1, don't understand what you taking your gambit seriously or not has anything to do with massive, really wish that he would stop fucking misgendering you. lime in da coconut should probably know better than to base reads off setup spec if they are who I think they are but I could be wrong on the altguess, me treating Gamma like a partner is something that doesn't make any sense at all if they are + they haven't followed up on their catchup at all but I can't really be bothered engaging with them to figure out how much of that is bs or just not having a good game or whatever, Grendel's response to my scumread is probably the scummiest thing I've seen all game, don't understand at all how he completely flips massive and me in his reads and his reasoning for me being scum is essentially just an ellipsis, still have no idea why he's townreading Gamma

pedit lol

[nancy]

Grendel could you talk about where your reads are at with humeaneatingmonkey flipping town please? If you don't have time to talk about all of them then maybe pick ~2-3 that feel most important to you? Your progression on me/Robbnva in particular is something I don't really understand; I'd like to know what changed between 1133 where you seem to have a pretty tentative townread on me and 1152 where I'm your top townread and just your earlier treatment of Robbnva in general where it looks like you're townreading him but have him as a nullread (?) once you put out a readslist.

Very scummy behaviors :3

[nancy]

Sorry, I'm trolling but I don't mean to make fun. It's just hard to take mafia seriously right now. I think your reasoning for me being scum is bad and it's one of the reasons why I think you are scum. Most of them are also wrong, since I made 1329 when your last read given of me at that point was "top townread" and moreover your last post at that point implied that I was town by saying that town was being bad and asking me to vote (which ftr is also scummy because LAMIST), and the post before that was asking me to vote massive with you which is very clearly implying that you're townreading me; since not claiming when there was no reason for me to just because you wanted it isn't scummy (but framing me as "avoiding" actually is); since I wasn't taking your townread for granted given that I asked whether your read of me had changed and that isn't scummy even if it were true; and since I'm not counterclaimed and it was literally impossible for me to be counterclaimed at the time you even said that since I hadn't even claimed at that point. So basically you don't actually have any real reasons to scumread me fmpov, and I don't even think your reasoning is town wrong because of the way you're framing and stretching things to be scummy and ignoring anything that makes your scumread look silly.

And I still have no idea why you're townreading Gamma.

[nancy]

Vote me then bae. I don't know why you think it's weird but I'm not going to be upset with you for not knowing I'm town and I've mislynched friends for worse so it's honestly impossible for me to feel bad about people getting it wrong in mafia anymore. We've gotten this far without arguing and I don't plan on having that change especially when I don't even care who wins this game.

[nancy]

<3

[nancy]

Have you used your other shot?

Yeah, I tracked Vecna night 1 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[nancy]

Who do you think he targeted, Gin? I'm curious. I'll tell you if you're right or not

[nancy]

*shrug*

It's almost certainly the last game I play with Gin ever, probably one of my last mafia games ever, I'll goof around if I want to, don't really care honestly

[nancy]

You're boring

[nancy]

Fine to release scum PT.

Told you you had it in you Grendel you did great

[nancy]

Glad you're feeling better Drixx!

Also less importantly winning this means I retire 7-0 as scum woot woot

[nancy]

<3 u RC