Mini Normal 1952: Dragon's Dance [OVER - PERFECT SCUM WIN]

[LicketyQuickety]

I’m vanilla this game. Thoughts?

VOTE: boonskiies

This joke is way more likely to come from scum than town in RVS.

Could be a reaction test.

[LicketyQuickety]

i know this is sooo overdone but i'll ask the question: why'd you point it out, LQ?

Stupidity, mostly. Sometimes it works in my favor tho. Like when I say stuff like that it can end RVS in a heartbeat. But sometimes it gets me lynched too, so that's why I think its more stupid.

[LicketyQuickety]

Not on board with the LQ lunch because I'm also VT and was considering claiming it straight out the gate.

Can someone elaborate on the policy lynch? I must be missing something.

I appreciate that you don't want to lynch me, but what you just said is prolly stupider than what I said.

[LicketyQuickety]

i know this is sooo overdone but i'll ask the question: why'd you point it out, LQ?

Stupidity, mostly. Sometimes it works in my favor tho. Like when I say stuff like that it can end RVS in a heartbeat. But sometimes it gets me lynched too, so that's why I think its more stupid.

Do you plan on saying stupid things on a regular basis? Because that post makes it sound like maybe you do.

I am going to try not to if I can help it.

[LicketyQuickety]

Not on board with the LQ lunch because I'm also VT and was considering claiming it straight out the gate.

Can someone elaborate on the policy lynch? I must be missing something.

Why were you considering claiming right away?

A policy lynch is the act of lynching a player who is not found to be particularly scummy, but because their bad play will hurt the town later on.

Thank you for the explanation.

I was considering claiming right away because I've never used this tactic before and I wanted to see how it played out. I'm still fairly new to mafia. So, it was interesting to me that someone else had the exact same idea.

Ah. So you essentially wanted to try reaction testing. I can’t say that I dig it. I tend to find it scummy but I know people do it as town enough for it be a null tell. I think as long as you know what you’re trying to accomplish with a reaction test, you’ll do fine.

What do you think Boon is trying to accomplish with his supposed claim?

And what makes you think they used it as a reaction test after I brought up what boon was doing could be a reaction test. You think they got anything out of the reaction test they did, cuz I don't.

[LicketyQuickety]

The question, at this point, should be whether Lalendra was truthful in their claim or whether they are Scum. I think this because I think its improbable that Lalendra was doing a reaction test when that was already brought up. Its the fact that her reaction test would be so ineffective that I don't think its likely she takes that course of action. I mean, they already claimed it so there is no sense in hiding it really.

I will say its prolly very unlikely that all of Uzi, EP and Lalendra are all Scum covering for Lalendra. That would group themselves too close together as having the same opinion which I don't think is either an effective strategy as Scum, nor a probable one.

[LicketyQuickety]

OK. I will sit on that for a while because I am posting too much.

[LicketyQuickety]

tsq and Uzi prolly not S v S.

[LicketyQuickety]

I could prolly vote Boon. tsq makes a decent point on them. Plus they only have one post. The fact that they have one post doesn't invalidate that they could be doing a reaction test. On the contrary it actually bolsters my argument. But you can't read what you can't read.

I think Uzi is prolly Town. I liked their interpretation of Lalendra. Seems like a Town mindset. That said, I don't like how he is silent on Boon.

Havo is complete meh, but they could be just feeling things out.

Toco's is nowhere to be seen.

Shad prolly happy they are Town... or something. I've played with Shadd offsite.

Null on EP. Will have to see what they have to say more about me and Lalendra. Don't get that they want to meta dive Town reads, however; that's just weird.

Chill seems to be avoiding anything noteworthy. Don't like that.

Lalendra is a newb and doesn't makes sense.

I think Acid could be Town here for giving me a quick Town read. I've played with them a few times.

[LicketyQuickety]

I didn’t even notice he posted to be honest.

Can you talk about your experience with him some LQ?

Good player. Sniffed me out pretty handedly in our second game together on D1. We had quite the 1v1 there. I caught him in the previous game. Its kinda ballsy for Acid to give me a quick Town read unless they don't really respect my play. I think they are a tone reader for the most part, but they are actually good at it.

[LicketyQuickety]

I didn’t even notice he posted to be honest.

Can you talk about your experience with him some LQ?

Good player. Sniffed me out pretty handedly in our second game together on D1. We had quite the 1v1 there. I caught him in the previous game. Its kinda ballsy for Acid to give me a quick Town read unless they don't really respect my play. I think they are a tone reader for the most part, but they are actually good at it.

Would you say he fades out or lurks as scum?

I just recently finished a game with him where he was super active early on as scum, went on v/LA, came back and for whatever reason started lurking.

Nope. That has not been my experience with Acid, however, I believe they were the last remaining 3p in the setup for almost the whole game because their partner (another good player) got snipped N1. They were bold and made strong well thought out stances that were good for his win con.

[LicketyQuickety]

quick i respect your town play but based on f+v i don't think the statement that i'll be certain of your alignment soon enough is unfair at all

i don't think i've seen your scum play

also i have no clue which game you're talking about

did i play a game with you other than f+v? idts but maybe

Yeah, I was thinking of someone else. Was just trying to check on MU the game we played together. It was like "the game of lights" or something. It was a light game. Sorry, I was misremembering; didn't mean to mix you up with someone else. Do you know what the name of that game was? My stated games on MU are outdated and it doesn't account for a few games I have played on there so its not in my database. I can check my wiki tho, which I am going to do next.

[LicketyQuickety]

fruits and vegetables

the semi-nightless

Yeah, found it. I feel like I have alzheimers. You are conveniently completely out of my memory. Weird.

[LicketyQuickety]

Tchill is scum.

Why?

[LicketyQuickety]

I’m known for claiming like 5 different times as town. I’m THE reaction test player on site. I believe every post matters.

I’m also VLA until Friday, it I’ll likely be posting occasionally within that.

This seems acceptable. What do you think tsq?

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm going to follow tsq on this one. Plus, I hate how Boon said they claim like 5 times in a game.

VOTE: Boon

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm aware I never gave a read on tsq as well. He's making some decent points and is playing aggressive and I like that. That would be my read on him atm.

[LicketyQuickety]

I’m vanilla this game. Thoughts?

VOTE: boonskiies

This joke is way more likely to come from scum than town in RVS.

I’m vanilla this game. Thoughts?

VOTE: boonskiies

This joke is way more likely to come from scum than town in RVS.

Could be a reaction test.

This is where I first bring into question about if what you are saying is legit. You gave no opinion on this.

The question, at this point, should be whether Lalendra was truthful in their claim or whether they are Scum. I think this because I think its improbable that Lalendra was doing a reaction test when that was already brought up. Its the fact that her reaction test would be so ineffective that I don't think its likely she takes that course of action. I mean, they already claimed it so there is no sense in hiding it really.

I will say its prolly very unlikely that all of Uzi, EP and Lalendra are all Scum covering for Lalendra. That would group themselves too close together as having the same opinion which I don't think is either an effective strategy as Scum, nor a probable one.

Can we lynch confirmed scum boonskiies yet?

The question, at this point, should be whether Lalendra was truthful in their claim or whether they are Scum. I think this because I think its improbable that Lalendra was doing a reaction test when that was already brought up. Its the fact that her reaction test would be so ineffective that I don't think its likely she takes that course of action. I mean, they already claimed it so there is no sense in hiding it really.

I will say its prolly very unlikely that all of Uzi, EP and Lalendra are all Scum covering for Lalendra. That would group themselves too close together as having the same opinion which I don't think is either an effective strategy as Scum, nor a probable one.

worth noting if boonskiies flips scum.

why are we wasting several paragraphs pontificating on what is obviously a newbie play while ignoring the fact that boonskiies, who is not a newbie, already did it earlier.

This is where you call into question what I have said and double down on Boon.

I’m known for claiming like 5 different times as town. I’m THE reaction test player on site. I believe every post matters.

I’m also VLA until Friday, it I’ll likely be posting occasionally within that.

This seems acceptable. What do you think tsq?

This is the second opportunity I gave you to feel out whether you were actually serious about lynching Boon.

Self meta is nonsense.

Here you triple down on Boon being Scum.

I'm going to follow tsq on this one. Plus, I hate how Boon said they claim like 5 times in a game.

VOTE: Boon

This is where I get curious about what exactly you are doing so I play devils advocate to see what exactly you are really doing. At the time I was debating saying Boons meta is easily verifiable, but held off on that; don't know why.

I'm aware I never gave a read on tsq as well. He's making some decent points and is playing aggressive and I like that. That would be my read on him atm.

This is where I give my perspective on what tsq is doing. Notice I didn't say you were giving good points, but decent points. This was intentional.

Ep, I know. It's almost like I did that on purpose.

I don't like how lq just said that boons response was fine and then jumped into the wagon after a one sentence non-argument from me. Like, at all.

VOTE: LQ

Then you turn your hand and say you were just saying those things to see who follows you. I did follow you, but as I said before, it had more to do with trying to see what you were up to. When I said I didn't like that Boon said he claims different things like 5 times in a game, that was an honest comment because I don't think that is the way Mafia should be played because it ruins your credibility if you do that.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Lalendra

This needs rope.

[LicketyQuickety]

No, I still think boon is scummy.

But I think you jumping on him after what I think was a particularly spurious argument on my part a) fits the description of scum who want to distance from their scum partner and b) fits scum trying to coast off of a particularly loud player without providing insight and reasoning of his own.

You know what all of those posts have in common? They don't contain at any point YOU providing reasoning for why YOU think hes scum. In fact, the only post besides your vote where you mention him at all is the one where you say that his defense is reasonable. Which then turns into a vote? What?

Why is Boon Scummy? For reasons stated? I think your reasons are weak and you don't have enough cause to jump off of him and on to me. Boon needs to be Scum in order for me to be Scum in this scenario, correct? Otherwise its just me being opportunistic? If that was the case I would jump on to Chill.

[LicketyQuickety]

notice the convenient second letter in my justification.

Or, you know, I could just be trying to get more info on what you are doing, which I already talked about. Now if you don't believe I am doing that, that is one thing, but basically all you have done is say "this is typical Scum behavior, so that means LQ is Scum" a point you couldn't possibly make a meta argument on me of. Not going to self meta, I'll just point out my sig and let you think on that.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think thats a gross misstatement of my point, which is more along the lines of "I see more scum motivation for what you are doing than town motivation for what you are doing."

And I think its pretty weak that you say I haven't provided any of my own thoughts on the game. There are worse offenders of your point b than what I have done.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm going to let the thread breath for a bit.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Uzi @tsq

Not on board with the LQ lunch because I'm also VT and was considering claiming it straight out the gate.

Can someone elaborate on the policy lynch? I must be missing something.

First, she says lunch, which means she has played before, and its not typical of people on this site to say Lunch as much as elsewhere on the net. Second, She says she is not on board with my lynch... because she was also considering claiming VT straight out of the gate... Wut? Like I feel she is trying to say its Townie of me to point out that it could be a reaction test, but instead she goes into full detail of giving too much info about her role for zero reason. I can see how VT might want to claim to survive longer, but as I already stated, the fact someone else already claimed VT it takes away any ability to use "I'm VT" as a reaction test. So given that she HAS played before (assuming she played a newbie game here) Its likely she already knows not to just claim your role for zero reason. That's why I posited that either she is just a poor player or is Scum in so many words.

Not on board with the LQ lunch because I'm also VT and was considering claiming it straight out the gate.

Can someone elaborate on the policy lynch? I must be missing something.

Why were you considering claiming right away?

A policy lynch is the act of lynching a player who is not found to be particularly scummy, but because their bad play will hurt the town later on.

Thank you for the explanation.

I was considering claiming right away because I've never used this tactic before and I wanted to see how it played out. I'm still fairly new to mafia. So, it was interesting to me that someone else had the exact same idea.

Here its like... AGAIN, why claim here when it serves zero purpose? I feel like she is kinda playing up the newb card at this point. She hasn't indicated that she knows what she is doing and is going to pull some gosu fake out shit that she drops on us later.

Okay I'm a fan of readlists, especially this early in the game, so here goes.

Spoiler:

LilUziVert has generated some good discussion. No real issues there but I don't have a read as of yet.
Boon claimed VT with first post and hasn't said much since. I don't get a scum read because that would be a pretty ballsy move out of the gate for scum to pull and draw way too much attention to themselves. Probably town.
Tchill said that claims don't generate discussion in RVS, which I don't necessarily agree with; I feel like claims are one of the easiest and quickest ways to get OUT of RVS. I'm not getting a huge scum vibe yet but haven't done a meta dive either, and he seems like an experienced player.
LQ pointed out that TSQ vs Uzi is probably not S v S, which I agree with. LQ has also made some good points, despite claiming stupidity earlier. I'm thinking town but not sure.
Tacos voted Havo for voting Boon, then jumped on schadd policy wagon on TSQ, then voted tchill without explanation. I'd like to see some actual content at some point.
Schadd policy voted TSQ, and said "Acid is a little yikes," but did not elaborate. Again, would like to see more content.
TSQ is probably not scum for reasons listed earlier, plus he is generating discussion, so I am leaning town on that one.
Havo's posts are aggressively pro-town, which is a risky stance for scum to take, but this player also sounds very experienced. I'm going to say town unless something makes me think otherwise.
EP wants to do a meta-dive on two players (me and LQ) even though he thinks we're town, which is a little odd but not unheard of to confirm reads, I'm not getting a scum vibe from that. Voted tchill without any explanation at first, but had some good analysis later.

I don't have any super strong reads yet but currently, Tacos and Schadd are probably my biggest scumreads simply because they have posted without actually saying or contributing much. Players who have more experience with them (or just in general) are welcome to tell me if they think I'm wrong on those.

Mumble and Egg, where you at?

P-Edit: Not a bad vote from TSQ for LQ. I am open to jumping on this wagon, depending on where it goes.

"I'm a fan of reads list, especially this early" This is not something a newb should be saying... like.. at all.

And then she basically says Boon is Town because he did something she has never tried out and thinks its too ballsy for Scum to do. Way to give yourself a Town read???

In her read on Chill, she is basically saying she disagrees with someone who is much more experienced than herself. Then she says she hasn't done a meta dive on Chill yet. OK, but like, what are you waiting for?

Their read on me... "I'm thinking Town, but not sure" Does it get any more hedgy than that?

Her Toco read is the only one that seems acceptable and its not even a stance on them.

There read on shadd seems a bit IIoA as per my definition. It gives facts without a conclusion in other words. Its smells fishy to me.

tsq... Take not of the "on that one" This looks like it could be a kind of coverup based on word choice. Not to mention that generating content is what you are

supposed

to do as either alignment.

How the absolute FUCK is playing as aggressively Pro-Town risky? Like that is what you are supposed to do to get a Town read, right?

Their read on EP is.. "I'm a newb but I know what EP is doing even tho it doesn't make sense is perfectly fine"

She wraps up her reads saying "The people that have contributed a goose egg are my Scum reads" when earlier she said she had no read on those players.

Then in her P-Edit she does exactly what tsq accused me of doing, but does tsq even look at Lalenda? Why not? Because they are a newb so all is forgiven?

VOTE: tchill
also >explanations with your readslist

unexplained readslist = goat

I don't really have any stronger reasoning at the moment, hence why there isn't much. The readslist was mostly me thinking out loud and hoping that it would generate some discussion.

Why did you vote tchill?

Then she takes Acids harmless comment as an accusation and finds the need to defend themselves. Why do you feel the need to defend yourself against that?

VOTE: Lalendra

This needs rope.

Can you elaborate on what this means? I'm also confused about why you voted me and then continue your dialogue with TSQ. If you think what he is doing is scummy/bad play, why wouldn't you vote him instead? (Not saying I think you should, I'm not getting a strong scumlean on him; just trying to understand your thought process here.)

Havo - Are you serious about Mumble? If so, why not vote him?

LAMIST.

[LicketyQuickety]

What part of it do you not like? What do you think the motivations for the actions I am attacking him for are likely to be?

I don't think your LQ case is founded on solid ground at all--
(here I typed out a paragraph about why your case was bad but when I went back and read it, it seemed more and more like just a playstyle difference and now i'm not very sure)

But to summarize what I was going to say:
LQ obviously does weird stuff and I think thats something you have to take into account. Town is illogical/bad/dumb all the time. The only difference I see between Tchill's unjustified vote that resulted in you VI-reading him and LQ's unjustified vote that resulted in you scumreading him, to me, looks like a real reach to find motives that I strongly believe comes from scum a lot less than you think it does

(or I could just be overestimating LQ and he's actually terrible at scum?!)

As for why I townread LQ:
1) He's dominating the game in a way that makes me really feel like he's town without a filter.
2) I know meta is very unreliable especially with such a small sample size but I use it to ground my early game reads-- looking at his town and scum games, I get the sense that he tries to be helpful more when he's scum, trying to take a strong supporting role with questions and pushes. (This is very common for people when they play scum I feel). There's none of that here.
3) Some of his posts, like 26, are something I can't really imagine coming from scum.

Why are you arguing why I am Town and not why tsq is Scum?

[LicketyQuickety]

2) Havo's 31 is unnecessarily chip-on-shoulder. Unfortunately I couldn't find any scum games from him, so there's really nothing to look into there (and perhaps there wouldn't be anything to look into even if there were scum games to read). But early Havo ISOs in other games have him being pretty personable. Thoughts, Havo?

My biggest pet peeve is when townies post things that create confusion

Can you point to me where you have said this before?

[LicketyQuickety]

on the other hand, everyone who's posted on

this

page is town

I TOWN WOOHOO

You're going to have to articulate more than this because anyone can fake the sort of answers that you are giving.

[LicketyQuickety]

Errant or licketey quickety what do you think of acid?

Completely undecided on Acid since I found out who I thought they were, they were not.

[LicketyQuickety]

Will get to other posts a bit later, but this one is easy.

also quick who did you think i was

lol

I thought you were Athazagora AKA AwesomeDolphin.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think Acid could be Town here for giving me a quick Town read. I've played with them a few times.

Good player. Sniffed me out pretty handedly in our second game together on D1. We had quite the 1v1 there. I caught him in the previous game. Its kinda ballsy for Acid to give me a quick Town read unless they don't really respect my play. I think they are a tone reader for the most part, but they are actually good at it

These two things together feel weird to me. The first feels like lickety is shrugging him off as town with little reason. The second feels a lot more calculated. This could be buddying a player who caught him before in hopes that he gets overlooked this time. But then at the same time, some of the language doesn't feel like buddying. It feels more...bitter? Like he has some kind of animosity towards acid. I'm looking at "kinda ballsy" and "don't really respect my play". But then he goes right back into a compliment by saying he's a good tone reader. It just feels so unnatural to me.

quick i respect your town play but based on f+v i don't think the statement that i'll be certain of your alignment soon enough is unfair at all

i don't think i've seen your scum play

Funny. These don't seem to go together either unless the first statement didn't have to do with meta but that wasn't the impression I got.

I think you missed the part about Acid NOT being the person I thought they were?

I'm pretty surprised at Lickety's post 101. The Boon vote seemed to be following a town read (Shea) while 101 gives the impression that that never happened like that. I'm trying to think what changed in that time and Shea voting Lickety is the obvious thing there. It seems like Shea, in Lickety's mind, very quickly went from solid town worth following to a guy that makes no sense when he talks. I understand the vote somewhat changing Lickety's view here, but it's almost like he's trying to alter the past. The whole "double down, triple down" thing sounds like Lickety was never satisfied with Shea's play when the Boon vote suggested otherwise. The jump OFF of Boon two posts later is pretty convenient too but I might just be at the point of comfirmation bias there.

Not sure if you are saying my read on Shea has change or if you are talking about Shea's read on me. In any case. My read on Shea has not really changed.

Can you elaborate on what this means? I'm also confused about why you voted me and then continue your dialogue with TSQ. If you think what he is doing is scummy/bad play, why wouldn't you vote him instead? (Not saying I think you should, I'm not getting a strong scumlean on him; just trying to understand your thought process here.)

Lickety is probably worried OMGUSing would look bad.

Funny guy. I can see why you like the name egg. Nope not afraid of OMGUS, I've done it a few times (ask Uzi).

First, she says lunch, which means she has played before

lol, what? You lost me. I mean yeah she's played before but what does saying "lunch" have to do with that? lol

I wanted to see if she had played off site before playing here. Most people do play somewhere else before coming here now days. Lalendra, have you played off site?

She wraps up her reads saying "The people that have contributed a goose egg are my Scum reads" when earlier she said she had no read on those players.

Where do you see that?

Look at her reads on Toco and Shadd. In her reads list it appeared like they were a Null read considering she tagged them as "I need to see more from you" or something like that. Then she lists them as her strongest Scum reads.

Then she takes Acids harmless comment as an accusation and finds the need to defend themselves. Why do you feel the need to defend yourself against that?

Maybe it's just me but that felt more like acknowledging a request that Acid made than a defense.

Did Acid ask a question to Lalendra? I forget.

[LicketyQuickety]

First, she says lunch, which means she has played before, and its not typical of people on this site to say Lunch as much as elsewhere on the net.

Actually that was my phone autocorrecting lynch to lunch. I caught it the second time, but not the first. Reading way too much into autocorrect lol. Plus you can look at my history on this site to see how many games I've played, I think it's maybe six? (Not taking the time to check right now) I would consider myself a newbie compared to most others on this site, yes.

My mistake, I don't have a cell phone so I don't know about that stuff.

Second, She says she is not on board with my lynch... because she was also considering claiming VT straight out of the gate... Wut? Like I feel she is trying to say its Townie of me to point out that it could be a reaction test, but instead she goes into full detail of giving too much info about her role for zero reason. I can see how VT might want to claim to survive longer, but as I already stated, the fact someone else already claimed VT it takes away any ability to use "I'm VT" as a reaction test. So given that she HAS played before (assuming she played a newbie game here) Its likely she already knows not to just claim your role for zero reason. That's why I posited that either she is just a poor player or is Scum in so many words.

I never claimed to be good. It was an approach I had never tried, and really, why would two VT claims be any less effective than one? It gives people more to talk about, if anything.

We are talking about doing the same exact reaction test that was just discussed. Do you think that would actually work? When it was discussed that the first time it could have been a reaction test?

"I'm a fan of reads list, especially this early" This is not something a newb should be saying... like.. at all.

Why not? It helps me organize my thought process and get feedback from other people, maybe consider angles I hadn't yet. Not sure why that makes me not a newb.

I'm not saying it doesn't make you a newb. What I meant was that it implies you have some knowledge about why reads lists are a good practice to do early. This is a very hot button issue and some people think D1 in general isn't good for getting reads. The way you phrased it seemed like you had some insider knowledge about this.

In her read on Chill, she is basically saying she disagrees with someone who is much more experienced than herself. Then she says she hasn't done a meta dive on Chill yet. OK, but like, what are you waiting for?

I was at work and have other shit to do?

K, as long as that is all it is.

Their read on me... "I'm thinking Town, but not sure" Does it get any more hedgy than that?

Pretty sure I flat out said that I wasn't super confident in any of my reads yet and that's why I didn't vote.

Yeah, but earlier you said you didn't want to lynch me. Seems like a knee jerk reaction when you first said that?

tsq... Take not of the "on that one" This looks like it could be a kind of coverup based on word choice. Not to mention that generating content is what you are

supposed

to do as either alignment.

Okay? I'm not sure how "on that one" is a coverup, can you elaborate?

Its the only time you have used that phrase. It implies there is something special about your read on that person.

How the absolute FUCK is playing as aggressively Pro-Town risky? Like that is what you are supposed to do to get a Town read, right?

If you're aggressively pro-town as scum, it's risky because it can be transparent. Trying TOO HARD to be town. If you're aggressively pro-town as town, it can lead to you being mistaken as scum who is trying too hard.

I try to be aggressive as both Town AND Scum because if I just do it as Town and not as Scum then people pick up on that and it ends up being an easy read to make.

She wraps up her reads saying "The people that have contributed a goose egg are my Scum reads" when earlier she said she had no read on those players.

I didn't say that, but nice way to spin via paraphrasing.

In the information you gave on your reads, you gave no indication that you thought either Schadd or Toco did anything Scummy. All you said is that you need to see more from them.

Then in her P-Edit she does exactly what tsq accused me of doing, but does tsq even look at Lalenda? Why not? Because they are a newb so all is forgiven?

I said I was open to the idea if I was presented with more evidence, but obviously was not confident enough to vote, because...well, because I didn't.

I was more addressing this to Shea than you.

Then she takes Acids harmless comment as an accusation and finds the need to defend themselves. Why do you feel the need to defend yourself against that?

I didn't think I was defensive in this post, I was just responding to something that was said.

I could be reading too far into it.

VOTE: Lalendra

This needs rope.

Can you elaborate on what this means? I'm also confused about why you voted me and then continue your dialogue with TSQ. If you think what he is doing is scummy/bad play, why wouldn't you vote him instead? (Not saying I think you should, I'm not getting a strong scumlean on him; just trying to understand your thought process here.)

Havo - Are you serious about Mumble? If so, why not vote him?

LAMIST.

How is that LAMIST?

This wasn't really addressed to you either.

[LicketyQuickety]

Can you elaborate on what this means? I'm also confused about why you voted me and then continue your dialogue with TSQ. If you think what he is doing is scummy/bad play, why wouldn't you vote him instead? (Not saying I think you should, I'm not getting a strong scumlean on him; just trying to understand your thought process here.)

Lickety is probably worried OMGUSing would look bad.

Funny guy. I can see why you like the name egg. Nope not afraid of OMGUS, I've done it a few times (ask Uzi).

Okay then, answer my question. If it wasn't fear of OMGUS what was it?

Not sure I got this question from you the first time around. Not quite sure why you think it was YOUR question when Egg was the person who made that comment. We will see how good Uzi's memory is shortly.

Lalendra, have you played off site?

I played like two games on another site, three years ago I think? MS is the only other site I've been on.

Thanks for the info.

Then she takes Acids harmless comment as an accusation and finds the need to defend themselves. Why do you feel the need to defend yourself against that?

Maybe it's just me but that felt more like acknowledging a request that Acid made than a defense.

Did Acid ask a question to Lalendra? I forget.

98 was more of a suggestion than a question, but I was asking a question in return (not sure I got an answer actually).

OK

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm satisfied with my dialogue with LQ for the moment. I'm getting tired and it seems like I thought some stuff was directed at me that wasn't so tell me if there were any questions that I didn't answer.

Hang on a minute. I did ask you a few questions in my response.

[LicketyQuickety]

EP, have you looked at any of my Scum games?

[LicketyQuickety]

this pagetop is dedicated to lynches based on scumminess not policy

Don't do that. Page topping is [insert negative word here].

[LicketyQuickety]

not taking pagetops up for the grabbing is no fun tho :<

if this was mu i'd put vcs there

do you have a readslist?

how far would you stray from my posts at mumble in 182

what do you think of mumble

I provided a reads list earlier. Don't feel up for doing another one currently.

I don't really have many serious reads... Schadd is prolly my strongest Town read atm. #2 would prolly be EP, but they could be buddying me. Chill said I was his only and strongest Town read, and at the time, it seemed like a pretty logical move to make stance wise as Scum, but he is prolly #3.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think you’re playing fucking semantics man. I suspect that was a typo.

Even if she has played before, it doesn’t necessarily mean that she isn’t a newbie. She could still not understand a lot of roles or basic mafia terminology. She could have less than 10 games under her belt for all we know.

You do have a point about her claiming but I just don’t see the way she did it coming from scum. What would her scum motivation be to claim like that? It reads more like a rookie mistake.

I’m not following you on why wouldn’t a newbie say that. It feels like you’re reaching again.

As for the reads list itself, I think it’s just a bunch of jumbled up thoughts and reeks of only having half an understanding of what’s going on and what people are doing

What was a typo?

Right, which is why I explicitly asked if she had experience off site.

The way I see a VT claim coming from Scum is to get a quick claim out so they don't have to worry about it later.

You don't get why a Newbie wouldn't say what?

Possible that she doesn't know what's going on with the reads list, but it also looks like some things could be fabricated.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think you’re playing fucking semantics man. I suspect that was a typo.

Even if she has played before, it doesn’t necessarily mean that she isn’t a newbie. She could still not understand a lot of roles or basic mafia terminology. She could have less than 10 games under her belt for all we know.

You do have a point about her claiming but I just don’t see the way she did it coming from scum. What would her scum motivation be to claim like that? It reads more like a rookie mistake.

I’m not following you on why wouldn’t a newbie say that. It feels like you’re reaching again.

As for the reads list itself, I think it’s just a bunch of jumbled up thoughts and reeks of only having half an understanding of what’s going on and what people are doing

What was a typo?

Right, which is why I explicitly asked if she had experience off site.

The way I see a VT claim coming from Scum is to get a quick claim out so they don't have to worry about it later.

You don't get why a Newbie wouldn't say what?

Possible that she doesn't know what's going on with the reads list, but it also looks like some things could be fabricated.

The lunch thing.

Is it really a worry when you have 2 or 3 people to converse with?

No I don’t get that at all. Explain like I’m 5 because right now it sounds like you’re making something out of nothing.

The lunch thing was cleared up.

IDK what your second sentence is addressing.

I don't feel like explaining a basic tell in simple terms.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think you’re playing fucking semantics man. I suspect that was a typo.

Even if she has played before, it doesn’t necessarily mean that she isn’t a newbie. She could still not understand a lot of roles or basic mafia terminology. She could have less than 10 games under her belt for all we know.

You do have a point about her claiming but I just don’t see the way she did it coming from scum. What would her scum motivation be to claim like that? It reads more like a rookie mistake.

I’m not following you on why wouldn’t a newbie say that. It feels like you’re reaching again.

As for the reads list itself, I think it’s just a bunch of jumbled up thoughts and reeks of only having half an understanding of what’s going on and what people are doing

What was a typo?

Right, which is why I explicitly asked if she had experience off site.

The way I see a VT claim coming from Scum is to get a quick claim out so they don't have to worry about it later.

You don't get why a Newbie wouldn't say what?

Possible that she doesn't know what's going on with the reads list, but it also looks like some things could be fabricated.

The lunch thing.

Is it really a worry when you have 2 or 3 people to converse with?

No I don’t get that at all. Explain like I’m 5 because right now it sounds like you’re making something out of nothing.

The lunch thing was cleared up.

IDK what your second sentence is addressing.

I don't feel like explaining a basic tell in simple terms.

I know that now. I was saying that I thought you were playing semantics earlier.

I’m referring to her claiming VT and your take on what was her motivation to do that as scum.

What tell? Walk me through man, seriously.

What don't you get about my take on why she might do that as Scum?

Scum - especially newb Scum - give fishy looking reads because its hard for them to fake good reads. I mean, I get that you are saying "No, they just don't know what's going on." But we don't actually know if its fake reads or not without pressure.

[LicketyQuickety]

What I’m saying is, why do you think it is a worry when from your POV, she’ll have 2 or 3 people to discuss and come up with a viable fake claim privately?

I have never heard of that actually. Has anyone else? Fishy reads are fishy reads regardless if you’re just starting out or a vet.

Well, IDK about you, but IDK what is going on in Mafia chat. We don't know if Lalendral said that before Scum had a group meeting to discuss strategy. IMO this site underutilized Mafia Chat quite a bit. I've been in games where Mafia didn't say much at all when Day Chat was a thing.

[LicketyQuickety]

1) Fact remains that Tchill is still a fine wagon as someone who has had 7 posts to advance the game but has actually done almost nothing.

2) Havo's 31 is unnecessarily chip-on-shoulder. Unfortunately I couldn't find any scum games from him, so there's really nothing to look into there (and perhaps there wouldn't be anything to look into even if there were scum games to read). But early Havo ISOs in other games have him being pretty personable. Thoughts, Havo?

3) LQ's weird Lalendra analysis is pretty town. Fast look into LQ's normal games (from his very helpful wiki) makes me comfortable with that read.

4) Any pronouns are fine.

Alright it's day one and we're on page 5 I'm not sure what I should be talking about yet. What do you want me to discuss?

VOTE: errantparabola

counter wagons for days

VOTE: errant

lol i talked myself back into it.

Was this just an OMGUS then?

Only scummy things I've seen so far is errant pushing me for lack of content when most players were around 5ish posts.

Low post count doesn’t mean lack of content.

Do you think Errant is forcing having a strong read on you or something?

I just felt like errant brought up an issue that could lead to a lot of momentum on my wagon that could then be pushed to a Lynch.

Only scummy things I've seen so far is errant pushing me for lack of content when most players were around 5ish posts.

Low post count doesn’t mean lack of content.

Do you think Errant is forcing having a strong read on you or something?

I just felt like errant brought up an issue that could lead to a lot of momentum on my wagon that could then be pushed to a Lynch.

The action isn't scummy it's the timing of it. Pushing someone for lack of content as soon as the game starts? Are you serious? That's why I questioned it because it's a reasonable excuse and the TIMING. Nothing better for scum to find a reasonable excuse to lead a mislynch on someone.

I think I kind of get what you’re saying here but I also don’t really see it. Errant doesn’t strike me as the careless type.

I find that there are players who don’t like a prolonged RVS stage or are just eager to get to game solving. Why is pushing for lack of content so early more likely to come from scum than town?

I see much more motivation in that instance from scum rather than town. i believe i had 2 votes on me and errant was already one of them. Errant laid the foundation for some serious momentum. So from that view there wouldn't be much discussion about other players and less stances would have been taken. I haven't played with errant before but since this i've stated a town read on him because his breakdowns make sense and he's looking like he's trying to get multiple reads.

I find it slightly odd that you are worried about getting lynched so early in the day (D1 no less)? Like its kinda normal for wagons to go all over the place the first 4-5 days or so, would you agree?

1) Fact remains that Tchill is still a fine wagon as someone who has had 7 posts to advance the game but has actually done almost nothing.

2) Havo's 31 is unnecessarily chip-on-shoulder. Unfortunately I couldn't find any scum games from him, so there's really nothing to look into there (and perhaps there wouldn't be anything to look into even if there were scum games to read). But early Havo ISOs in other games have him being pretty personable. Thoughts, Havo?

3) LQ's weird Lalendra analysis is pretty town. Fast look into LQ's normal games (from his very helpful wiki) makes me comfortable with that read.

4) Any pronouns are fine.

Alright it's day one and we're on page 5 I'm not sure what I should be talking about yet. What do you want me to discuss?

Town: Egg, Errant
lean town: Havo, LQ
Null: Schadd, thestatusquo, sergtacos
lean scum: Uzi, mumble, lalendra
Scum: acid

boon is null atm too

How strong are your reads at this point?

[LicketyQuickety]

I could prolly vote Boon. tsq makes a decent point on them. Plus they only have one post. The fact that they have one post doesn't invalidate that they could be doing a reaction test. On the contrary it actually bolsters my argument. But you can't read what you can't read.

@tsq and anyone else accusing me of having no progression on Boon.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ pointed out that TSQ vs Uzi is probably not S v S, which I agree with. LQ has also made some good points, despite claiming stupidity earlier. I'm thinking town but not sure.

I don't have any super strong reads yet but currently, Tacos and Schadd are probably my biggest scumreads simply because they have posted without actually saying or contributing much. Players who have more experience with them (or just in general) are welcome to tell me if they think I'm wrong on those.

...

P-Edit: Not a bad vote from TSQ for LQ. I am open to jumping on this wagon, depending on where it goes.

Am I the only one who sees a problem with this?

[LicketyQuickety]

Reads:

Uzi: Prolly Town here. What he says seems to come from Town mindset.
Boon: Who fucking knows. This is prolly my nullest read because of lack of content.
Chill: I can see some Town Mindset, but also some convenient stances (Don't expect people to understand the latter)
Lalendra: I am kinda on the fence about this one. Like most things they say make sense, but I just get a really bad vibe from them that I can't really explain.
Acid: I would be willing to give Acid another look. Will ISO them sometime today.
Toco: Slight Town based on Tone and stances
Shadd: Kinda same as Tocos. Like their tone is not bad at all, can't tell if its faked, but doesn't seem to be
tsq: Mostly null still. I mean I get their perspective and strategy, I just don't know if it comes from Town or Scum
Mumble: They made one post that I really thought sucked, will point that out after this post
Egg: Kinda same as tsq. I feel like both these guys are a little inflexible in their interpretation of things
Havo: Where have he been lately? At this point I see a bit more Scum then Town due to kinda POE, but that is pretty weak admittedly
EP: I like EP as Town. They are putting in effort and what they say makes perfect sense coming from Town

[LicketyQuickety]

I wasn't lurking? I posted last night, and now on my lunch break. Also, tchil called me out for it last night...so...why are you trying to throw shade at me for responding?

This post sucks. Like sure even if you were not lurking, your content is abysmal up to this point so I don't think this argument works in your favor at all.

[LicketyQuickety]

I wasn't lurking? I posted last night, and now on my lunch break. Also, tchil called me out for it last night...so...why are you trying to throw shade at me for responding?

This post sucks. Like sure even if you were not lurking, your content is abysmal up to this point so I don't think this argument works in your favor at all.

You should read on then. I thought that she was throwing shade at me for lurking (i.e. not posting) which I found scummy since it was false, which she later clarified to be active lurking (i.e. fluffposting), a term I was unfamiliar with, but makes her stance not false.

The argument works for the former, not the latter.

Yeah, but like, if you are not lurking I expect content, especially on page 8 or 9 because RVS was long over by that time to be making stupid jokes.

[LicketyQuickety]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LicketyQuickety

You going to explain this vote or...

[LicketyQuickety]

Mumble, who is Town, who is Scum? You haven't made a single stance yet, you've just dicked around the whole time. Like that is the definition of fluff posting which you claim you haven't been doing.

VOTE: Mumble

[LicketyQuickety]

Also this mumble serg thing reads like a performance to me.

*bows*

Spoiler:

OK, I lol'd.

[LicketyQuickety]

Does anyone with good LUV experience/Shea have a reads justification on him
Bunch of people randomly saying he's town or he's scum without anything discrete i feel

here is the way I see it: If Lalendra is Scum then Uzi has a better chance to be Scum for defending her, but it looks like Laledra might be Town here, which just makes Uzi's defense seem kinda accurate. That is what I am looking at anyways.

[LicketyQuickety]

here is the way I see it: If Lalendra is Scum then Uzi has a better chance to be Scum for defending her, but it looks like Laledra might be Town here, which just makes Uzi's defense seem kinda accurate. That is what I am looking at anyways.

If Lalendra is scum, then Serg and Acid have a better than decent change of being scum.

I think you are forgetting that Lalendra is a newb and that Uzi interprets their actions as Townie and doesn't question it.

[LicketyQuickety]

How is Lalendra a newb who has been here two years and have multiple games played?

They have played like 6 games. Yeah, I would say they are still a newb, big time.

[LicketyQuickety]

does anyone have a read on serg other than "he's serg and lolserg null"

regardless who wants to go for serg

I have a Town read on tocos. Are you sure you are not Scum?

[LicketyQuickety]

yes

quick.

Where is your sense of humor?

[LicketyQuickety]

running off to dance with elephants

Its too late now, you have shown your true colors.

[LicketyQuickety]

ye these colors my true colors

That was a correct response.

[LicketyQuickety]

HOWEVER it could have been improved via

yep here are my true colors

imotbh

tchill / boon / havo / tsq

quick pick one out of these

Prolly havo.

[LicketyQuickety]

Acid is prolly Town here.

[LicketyQuickety]

"good suggestions only" applies to quick

also, pick one

I mean, I could see Boon being the odd one out as well because of the whole claim happy thing plus the lack of posts.

Right now tho, it looks like Mumble is avoiding the thread.

[LicketyQuickety]

tsq prolly Town as well.

[LicketyQuickety]

So, all I have to do is this and I'm considered town?

Cool. I still don't understand what just happened.

That is because no one understands me.

[LicketyQuickety]

I just did.

*spew* Alignment

Maybe?

Fail. Big time fail.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: mumble

Thanks!

[LicketyQuickety]

Though, to be fair, the first half of it is mostly good. I don't want to lynch any of [EP, Schadd, Lalendra, Luv, egg]

Would be happy to swing quick, though. And only two of those are town reads.

bottom list would be happy to see any of them go besides tchill as I have a strong town VI read on them.

I would be up for a Quick lynch.

Or Mumbles or Tacos or maybe even Boon.

K well like, I get you don't like my playstyle, but that's not really a reason to Scum read me. If this isn't your actual reason, you should prolly state one at some point.

[LicketyQuickety]

Reads:

Uzi: Prolly Town here. What he says seems to come from Town mindset.
Boon: Who fucking knows. This is prolly my nullest read because of lack of content.
Chill: I can see some Town Mindset, but also some convenient stances (Don't expect people to understand the latter)
Lalendra: I am kinda on the fence about this one. Like most things they say make sense, but I just get a really bad vibe from them that I can't really explain.
Acid: I would be willing to give Acid another look. Will ISO them sometime today.
Toco: Slight Town based on Tone and stances
Shadd: Kinda same as Tocos. Like their tone is not bad at all, can't tell if its faked, but doesn't seem to be
tsq: Mostly null still. I mean I get their perspective and strategy, I just don't know if it comes from Town or Scum
Mumble: They made one post that I really thought sucked, will point that out after this post
Egg: Kinda same as tsq. I feel like both these guys are a little inflexible in their interpretation of things
Havo: Where have he been lately? At this point I see a bit more Scum then Town due to kinda POE, but that is pretty weak admittedly
EP: I like EP as Town. They are putting in effort and what they say makes perfect sense coming from Town

Slight town on Tacos? I don't get that.

That is because you are tonally inept or are Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

I have no substantial reads at this point, so I won't waste my time. The fact the you all are pressing so hard for it is ridiculous.

Like no one is pressing this super hard, we are just using it to Scum read you. There is a difference.

[LicketyQuickety]

Though, to be fair, the first half of it is mostly good. I don't want to lynch any of [EP, Schadd, Lalendra, Luv, egg]

Would be happy to swing quick, though. And only two of those are town reads.

bottom list would be happy to see any of them go besides tchill as I have a strong town VI read on them.

I would be up for a Quick lynch.

Or Mumbles or Tacos or maybe even Boon.

K well like, I get you don't like my playstyle, but that's not really a reason to Scum read me. If this isn't your actual reason, you should prolly state one at some point.

I'm having a hard problem getting past you calling out Boons reaction test tbh. Couple that with your style and I guess that gets me to my not so fuzzy feel for you. I'm willing to give it time tho, but wouldn't be opposed to a wagon on you right now.

There already is a wagon on me and those are shit reasons to want to lynch someone.

[LicketyQuickety]

Though, to be fair, the first half of it is mostly good. I don't want to lynch any of [EP, Schadd, Lalendra, Luv, egg]

Would be happy to swing quick, though. And only two of those are town reads.

bottom list would be happy to see any of them go besides tchill as I have a strong town VI read on them.

I would be up for a Quick lynch.

Or Mumbles or Tacos or maybe even Boon.

K well like, I get you don't like my playstyle, but that's not really a reason to Scum read me. If this isn't your actual reason, you should prolly state one at some point.

I'm having a hard problem getting past you calling out Boons reaction test tbh. Couple that with your style and I guess that gets me to my not so fuzzy feel for you. I'm willing to give it time tho, but wouldn't be opposed to a wagon on you right now.

There already is a wagon on me and those are shit reasons to want to lynch someone.

Most Day 1 lynches happen for shit reasons.

This is one of the worst reasons you could have given to justify a vote on me.

I put words in your mouth, I misrepped you on purpose to see what you would do and you failed. This is the sign of a guilty conscience.

You said you wouldn't mind a wagon on me, not that you would lynch me. This is self evident even if you didn't explicitly state that you would be willing to wagon me specifically by the fact that you said you would be willing to hold off on me and give it time. You failed the reaction test and now I have to vote you.

P-edit: OK was going to vote you but you gave a couple ok follow ups, so I am not going to. But it does make the statement you said at the beginning that you don't like it when people make confusing posts a load of crock. Plus you never linked where you had said that before and never even gave a response so I might vote you anyways and you might still be Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

Though, to be fair, the first half of it is mostly good. I don't want to lynch any of [EP, Schadd, Lalendra, Luv, egg]

Would be happy to swing quick, though. And only two of those are town reads.

bottom list would be happy to see any of them go besides tchill as I have a strong town VI read on them.

I would be up for a Quick lynch.

Or Mumbles or Tacos or maybe even Boon.

K well like, I get you don't like my playstyle, but that's not really a reason to Scum read me. If this isn't your actual reason, you should prolly state one at some point.

I'm having a hard problem getting past you calling out Boons reaction test tbh. Couple that with your style and I guess that gets me to my not so fuzzy feel for you. I'm willing to give it time tho, but wouldn't be opposed to a wagon on you right now.

There already is a wagon on me and those are shit reasons to want to lynch someone.

Most Day 1 lynches happen for shit reasons.

This is one of the worst reasons you could have given to justify a vote on me.

I put words in your mouth, I misrepped you on purpose to see what you would do and you failed. This is the sign of a guilty conscience.

You said you wouldn't mind a wagon on me, not that you would lynch me. This is self evident even if you didn't explicitly state that you would be willing to wagon me specifically by the fact that you said you would be willing to hold off on me and give it time. You failed the reaction test and now I have to vote you.

P-edit: OK was going to vote you but you gave a couple ok follow ups, so I am not going to. But it does make the statement you said at the beginning that you don't like it when people make confusing posts a load of crock. Plus you never linked where you had said that before and never even gave a response so I might vote you anyways and you might still be Scum.

WHERE is my VOTE at?

Another fail given that your vote is on tsq whom you were talking with to debate whether to vote myself. And now you have zero reason to vote me because by your logic, because I am making good points against you this means I am not as stupid or as confusing as you first thought. Instead of defending yourself or attacking my logic, you instead deflect the issue to something else.

This is enough for a vote. Plus I would have expected Mumble to give in and start providing reads if he was Scum (he could still be Scum because he disappeared fwiw)

VOTE: Havo

[LicketyQuickety]

havo wanna join in the spew your alignment game

anyone can play! step right up!

Though, to be fair, the first half of it is mostly good. I don't want to lynch any of [EP, Schadd, Lalendra, Luv, egg]

Would be happy to swing quick, though. And only two of those are town reads.

bottom list would be happy to see any of them go besides tchill as I have a strong town VI read on them.

I would be up for a Quick lynch.

Or Mumbles or Tacos or maybe even Boon.

I'm town.

Now you are providing random quotes to show you are Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

Though, to be fair, the first half of it is mostly good. I don't want to lynch any of [EP, Schadd, Lalendra, Luv, egg]

Would be happy to swing quick, though. And only two of those are town reads.

bottom list would be happy to see any of them go besides tchill as I have a strong town VI read on them.

I would be up for a Quick lynch.

Or Mumbles or Tacos or maybe even Boon.

K well like, I get you don't like my playstyle, but that's not really a reason to Scum read me. If this isn't your actual reason, you should prolly state one at some point.

I'm having a hard problem getting past you calling out Boons reaction test tbh. Couple that with your style and I guess that gets me to my not so fuzzy feel for you. I'm willing to give it time tho, but wouldn't be opposed to a wagon on you right now.

There already is a wagon on me and those are shit reasons to want to lynch someone.

Most Day 1 lynches happen for shit reasons.

This is one of the worst reasons you could have given to justify a vote on me.

I put words in your mouth, I misrepped you on purpose to see what you would do and you failed. This is the sign of a guilty conscience.

You said you wouldn't mind a wagon on me, not that you would lynch me. This is self evident even if you didn't explicitly state that you would be willing to wagon me specifically by the fact that you said you would be willing to hold off on me and give it time. You failed the reaction test and now I have to vote you.

P-edit: OK was going to vote you but you gave a couple ok follow ups, so I am not going to. But it does make the statement you said at the beginning that you don't like it when people make confusing posts a load of crock. Plus you never linked where you had said that before and never even gave a response so I might vote you anyways and you might still be Scum.

WHERE is my VOTE at?

Another fail given that your vote is on tsq whom you were talking with to debate whether to vote myself. And now you have zero reason to vote me because by your logic, because I am making good points against you this means I am not as stupid or as confusing as you first thought. Instead of defending yourself or attacking my logic, you instead deflect the issue to something else.

This is enough for a vote. Plus I would have expected Mumble to give in and start providing reads if he was Scum (he could still be Scum because he disappeared fwiw)

VOTE: Havo

LMAO, nice try. I have a scum read on you already, I posted it. IF I wanted to vote you I damn sure vote you.

this is not even about whether you have a Scum read on me already considering you are invalidating your prior statements all over the place. Plus, the "nice try" that doesn't sound like someone who has nothing to hide. Plus its a form of deflection. Plus this invalidates that you said people get lynched for shit reasons all the time which means you have zero reason not to vote me right now unless I was right earlier when I said you invalidated yourself when you said you didn't like confusing players. You haven't indicated that I am a confusing player at this point in time and you have not stated a reason to Scum read me.

There you are folks, I have offered you Scum on a silver platter.

[LicketyQuickety]

havo wanna join in the spew your alignment game

anyone can play! step right up!

Though, to be fair, the first half of it is mostly good. I don't want to lynch any of [EP, Schadd, Lalendra, Luv, egg]

Would be happy to swing quick, though. And only two of those are town reads.

bottom list would be happy to see any of them go besides tchill as I have a strong town VI read on them.

I would be up for a Quick lynch.

Or Mumbles or Tacos or maybe even Boon.

I'm town.

Now you are providing random quotes to show you are Town.

What part don't you understand?

I understand perfectly.

[LicketyQuickety]

@ LQ,

That's a classic OMGUS vote, only I hadn't voted you.

Over REAct Much?

Not sure how you mistake Scum hunting for overreaction. I was doing this same thing earlier with people. Then I started on you and caught Scum.

oh and

VOTE: Unvote

What has tsq posted in between the time you voting him and this that makes you want to unvote? Did your read on tsq change?

[LicketyQuickety]

When I posted my reads list I had 2 scum leans, you and TSQ.

I posted why I found you scummy, but my vote was still on TSQ because I was willing to give you some time since your play style was a bit sketchy.

I said I'd be ok with a wagon on you, then you went APESHIT!! At the mere mention of a WAgon on you.

Dude if this is how you're gonna play then Hell yeah, I'd be good with a wagon on You.

We we are now covering old ground.

Here's what actually happened.

I asked what reasons you had for Scum reading me. You gave your reasons and they were terrible and I said as much. At the same time I did a reaction test to test out if you were actually being serious with your suspicion on me.
Then instead of backing up your logic you completely circumvent the issue by giving an excuse why its not bad to vote for people for shit reasons.
I then explain the reaction test to everyone and explain that your logic doesn't hold up. In my P-Edit, I expressed that I was still unsure on you because of your later responses.
Then you say "where is my vote" like that in any way is some kind of defense about what I said.
Then you follow up with another deflection against my attack.
Then I explain that because your vote is on tsq whom you were talking about voting me with, that this implies that you no longer have any reason to Scum read me considering your reasons for voting me were because I didn't make sense to you which is invalidated because it implies both that you don't know what to do with your vote (a sign of nervousness) and that I am making decent points against you that you cannot contest.
Then you quote two posts. One of which is Acid asking if you can spew your alignment and another that Quotes the conversation you had with tsq about voting me trying to imply that you had reason to vote against me. Neither of these posts are posts that show how my logic is wrong on you.
Then I point out that these do not invalidate my points against you.
Then you acuse me of OMGUSing you, which if you were reading the thread, I said earlier that I am not afraid to OMGUS as Town.
Then you say "nice try" in an attempt to make it look like I am OMGUSing you. But this is invalidated by the P-Edit I made stating what you said previously wasn't enough for a vote.
Then you say I am not understanding something, which doesn't make sense because I had been explaining your actions the entire time.
Then I point out how your "nice try" is actually Scummy.
Then I point out that I actually do understand.
Then I point out that I was Scumhunting and not OMGUSing.
Then you make this post.

Conclusion: Havo never addresses my points head on, but instead deflects at every turn. This is not the sign of someone with sound logic, but someone with something to hide. This is Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

Now I am going to ISO Acid.

[LicketyQuickety]

When I posted my reads list I had 2 scum leans, you and TSQ.

I posted why I found you scummy, but my vote was still on TSQ because I was willing to give you some time since your play style was a bit sketchy.

I said I'd be ok with a wagon on you, then you went APESHIT!! At the mere mention of a WAgon on you.

Dude if this is how you're gonna play then Hell yeah, I'd be good with a wagon on You.

We we are now covering old ground.

Here's what actually happened.

I asked what reasons you had for Scum reading me. You gave your reasons and they were terrible and I said as much. At the same time I did a reaction test to test out if you were actually being serious with your suspicion on me.
Then instead of backing up your logic you completely circumvent the issue by giving an excuse why its not bad to vote for people for shit reasons.
I then explain the reaction test to everyone and explain that your logic doesn't hold up. In my P-Edit, I expressed that I was still unsure on you because of your later responses.
Then you say "where is my vote" like that in any way is some kind of defense about what I said.
Then you follow up with another deflection against my attack.
Then I explain that because your vote is on tsq whom you were talking about voting me with, that this implies that you no longer have any reason to Scum read me considering your reasons for voting me were because I didn't make sense to you which is invalidated because it implies both that you don't know what to do with your vote (a sign of nervousness) and that I am making decent points against you that you cannot contest.
Then you quote two posts. One of which is Acid asking if you can spew your alignment and another that Quotes the conversation you had with tsq about voting me trying to imply that you had reason to vote against me. Neither of these posts are posts that show how my logic is wrong on you.
Then I point out that these do not invalidate my points against you.
Then you acuse me of OMGUSing you, which if you were reading the thread, I said earlier that I am not afraid to OMGUS as Town.
Then you say "nice try" in an attempt to make it look like I am OMGUSing you. But this is invalidated by the P-Edit I made stating what you said previously wasn't enough for a vote.
Then you say I am not understanding something, which doesn't make sense because I had been explaining your actions the entire time.
Then I point out how your "nice try" is actually Scummy.
Then I point out that I actually do understand.
Then I point out that I was Scumhunting and not OMGUSing.
Then you make this post.

Conclusion: Havo never addresses my points head on, but instead deflects at every turn. This is not the sign of someone with sound logic, but someone with something to hide. This is Scum.

This ENTIRE post is garbage. Are you High right now?

This is NOT what happened.

Everyone can read this exchange for themselves.

Are you like going to counter my points or what?

[LicketyQuickety]

luv who on this list would you disagree with (being town):

quick, errant, egg, lalendra, mumble, schadd

except lalendra and add luv and remove quick and yourself

i don't want to lynch any of:
errant, quick, schadd, lalendra, luv, egg

at the moment

i don't really want to lynch mumble but i'd be happy with him

tchill / boon / serg / havo / tsq are the other people in the game

VOTE: tsq

i'm playing the spew your alignment game with everyone itt who posts and asking people who they want to lynch is part of the spew your alignment game

tsq was a lynch i was ~as happy with as anyone else in those bottom 5 names

Why did you remove me in the post before this one when addressing Uzi?

i dedicate this pagetop to the spew your alignment game

if you're here please join

mumble if you want a good example of how to start see last page's bottom

so is

reads in mafia

the spew your alignment game is completely separate from quick's color thing

i mean if you get a good tonal meme self-spew then sure

but otherwise not

wut what

i am saying that calling it ridiculous is dumb when effectively it's high-pressure rti

calling it subjective is dumb because this is mafia

and also added the thing about the color thing bc thought that was what you were referring to with ridiculous

tchill

that's not what shooting fish in a barrel means

actually tchill we already talked about acid a little and came to the correct and accurate conclusions

namely,

hi tchill look at me i'm so town

None of this is sorting anyone.

[LicketyQuickety]

so LQ shut down boons possible attempt at a reaction test then held his own and came to the conclusion havo was scum? convenient.

LOL if you think I planned it that way???

[LicketyQuickety]

What is wrong with my case on Havo? No one has said there is anything wrong with it. All they have said is that I am Scummy for my case on them without actually saying why my case on them is wrong.

[LicketyQuickety]

so LQ shut down boons possible attempt at a reaction test then held his own and came to the conclusion havo was scum? convenient.

Exactly

yeah, except I have NEVER stated a Town read on you all game either, so your point that I am OMGUSing is completely false. Plus if I was going to OMGUS someone, don't you think I would pick like tsq or something?

[LicketyQuickety]

No one has said a damn thing that invalidates my case on Havo.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ugh, 6 pages again. Catching up...

Tchill, you said mumble falls under the category of scum tending to lurk. What in his posting up to page 10 makes you think his lack of activity was alignment related? I'm also surprised to see TSQ in your null pile. Are you doing anything to try to sort him?

I could prolly vote Boon. tsq makes a decent point on them. Plus they only have one post. The fact that they have one post doesn't invalidate that they could be doing a reaction test. On the contrary it actually bolsters my argument. But you can't read what you can't read.

@tsq and anyone else accusing me of having no progression on Boon.

The fact that he only had one post at that point meant nothing more than that he went on V/LA. It doesn't strengthen your argument. It means nothing.

But it would mean something if he wasn't V/LA. You are being results oriented and not process oriented.

Right now tho, it looks like Mumble is avoiding the thread.

Avoiding the thread right after he came in and did things? Really?

Well he left just as the thread was getting hot. Again, you can't look at what happened later after I said what I said, you have to consider what the context was at the time. And its not like he really did much, lets be honest here. Plus if you want to be results oriented you would have to consider that I changed my read on Mumble (don't know if I explicitly stated this or not, but I was thinking it).

I might be warming up to Acid with his spew your alignment game. He looks townier since he started playing it.

How? They were not indicating how they were reading people at all because of that. At least that is what it looks like to me.

I'm still trying to figure out what to make of Lickety vs Havo. I'll probably just wait until one of them flips to figure that one out because I'm not getting anything more than associative tells off of those interactions and I don't want to mess around with those too much pre-flip.

Make a damn stance and man up. There is nothing wrong with my case on him.

@ LQ,

So you have flipped out a reaction test on me, after you called out Boons reaction test.

Seems like someone who really liked to reaction test would let another players reaction test have a chance to give results. No?

Very good point

Not really considering I didn't really want to cause a pile on Boon environment at the beginning of the game. That is how quick lunches happen and I try to avoid those because I have seen them happen in the past. I've talked to tsq in sitechat a bit - enough to know what he is like. And it was demonstrated that he's like a dog that doesn't let go of the rope so that's more reason to not want quick pressure on someone early from someone like him. Plus that was done at the beginning of the game when there is like nothing to go off of. Plus all it shows is that I am inconsistent, not that I am Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

I asked what reasons you had for Scum reading me. You gave your reasons and they were terrible and I said as much. At the same time I did a reaction test to test out if you were actually being serious with your suspicion on me.

I don't care if you don't like my reasons for scum leaning you

Then instead of backing up your logic you completely circumvent the issue by giving an excuse why its not bad to vote for people for shit reasons.

That's a Lie, here's where you are hard pushing your Agenda to avoid being lynched yourself, You said I had shit reasons for voting you, I said people get lynched on Day 1 for Shit reasons most of the time. Not that I Had Shit reasons

I then explain the reaction test to everyone and explain that your logic doesn't hold up. In my P-Edit, I expressed that I was still unsure on you because of your later responses.
Then you say "where is my vote" like that in any way is some kind of defense about what I said.

I said Where is my Vote, To point out to you that I wasn't voting you, I WASN'T VOTING YOU, I WASN'T VOTING YOU, I WASN'T VOTING YOU. What part of I'm not Voting you do you not get here? At this point my reasons to scum read you were not enough for me to actually vote you. I said I could vote you,
or would be okay with a wagon on you to see what reaction you would have.

Then you follow up with another deflection against my attack.
Then I explain that because your vote is on tsq whom you were talking about voting me with, that this implies that you no longer have any reason to Scum read me considering your reasons for voting me were because I didn't make sense to you which is invalidated because it implies both that you don't know what to do with your vote (a sign of nervousness) and that I am making decent points against you that you cannot contest.

Where my vote was at that time does NOT matter what my opinion or READ of you was, not at all.

Then you quote two posts. One of which is Acid asking if you can spew your alignment and another that Quotes the conversation you had with tsq about voting me trying to imply that you had reason to vote against me. Neither of these posts are posts that show how my logic is wrong on you.

This had NOTHING to do with you, I was answering Acid's Test with that post. It was not directed at you in any way.

Then I point out that these do not invalidate my points against you.
Then you acuse me of OMGUSing you, which if you were reading the thread, I said earlier that I am not afraid to OMGUS as Town.

And how is that town play at all? What is OMGUS voting known for? The fact that you stated your not afraid to do it means nothing,

Then you say "nice try" in an attempt to make it look like I am OMGUSing you. But this is invalidated by the P-Edit I made stating what you said previously wasn't enough for a vote.

What you did was virtually an OMGUS vote.

Then you say I am not understanding something, which doesn't make sense because I had been explaining your actions the entire time.

You are living in your own little scum world here. None of your argument makes sense.

Then I point out how your "nice try" is actually Scummy.
Then I point out that I actually do understand.
Then I point out that I was Scumhunting and not OMGUSing.
Then you make this post.

Conclusion: Havo never addresses my points head on, but instead deflects at every turn. This is not the sign of someone with sound logic, but someone with something to hide. This is Scum.

Bottom line is I had FOS'd you and put you as a scum LEAN, so I was not opposed to seeing a wagon on you or voting you to get more info on you, that's how it works, that's how you get reads, But me simply mentioning this caused a HUGE Over reaction on your part. It's obvious you were worried about being lynched so you tried your best to build a counter wagon against me to save your own ass, basically forcing me to vote you.

I love how you made this intentionally difficult to reply to. That's a neat trick that I have seen before. I will let others be the judge because your arguments are still not very good.

[LicketyQuickety]

intentionally difficult? lmao if thats not a copout idk what is.

Yeah, well, I think you switched on me pretty fast if I am being honest. Like why no vote on me? It looks like you are just throwing shade. Plus its like you have an excuse to not like all my posts rather than actually accounting for what I am saying.

I really can't believe you think Havo looks more Town from our interaction. It does not make sense to me.

[LicketyQuickety]

i have experience with havo and he's playing like id expect him to as town day 1. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because i have seen a few instances of newb townies trying too hard too early and making strong reads out of little to nothing. Pretty sure you joined in like 2015 though and your reaction to someone MENTIONING a LQ wagon is laughable. You contradicted yourslef to some degree with the "reaction testing" and it was during a conveniant time that gave you a "reason" to vote havo other than OMGUS. at this point i'm fine with your or mumble's lynch. I'd rather lynch mumble hence my voting being there.

then fucking put your money where your mouth is and vote me.

I find it odd that your reason for Town reading havo is based on Meta. How many games do you have played with them? You might want to look at my meta if you are going to use meta reads.

[LicketyQuickety]

ok i lean town on TSQ. after an ISO i like why he voted LQ. I'm not crazy about ppl that belittle me and I like to agg them on at some point. He's obviously confident in his own play if he's calling ppl idiots so i'm sure he'll have this game figured out by the next day phase.

So you are Town reading someone for being an asshole?

[LicketyQuickety]

i have experience with havo and he's playing like id expect him to as town day 1. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt because i have seen a few instances of newb townies trying too hard too early and making strong reads out of little to nothing. Pretty sure you joined in like 2015 though and your reaction to someone MENTIONING a LQ wagon is laughable. You contradicted yourslef to some degree with the "reaction testing" and it was during a conveniant time that gave you a "reason" to vote havo other than OMGUS. at this point i'm fine with your or mumble's lynch. I'd rather lynch mumble hence my voting being there.

then fucking put your money where your mouth is and vote me.

I find it odd that your reason for Town reading havo is based on Meta. How many games do you have played with them? You might want to look at my meta if you are going to use meta reads.

What part of "i think mumble is scummier" don't you understand? Do you want me to declare you my strongest TR? will that do enough for you?

No. I just don't like you taking pot shots at me with no vote on me. I mean lets be honest, that's your game right? Taking pot shots at things. I mean, it would be one thing if you accounted for like everything that was said in the post you are taking a pot shot at, but you don't. Instead you go "this one thing I don't like, so I think I will just focus on that".

I mean, as far as looking at your slot what I see is that When you were a wagon and I wasn't voting you when others were you were fine to give me your highest and only Town read, but when I make a post that puts a bit of suspicion on you, you all the sudden decide I am Scummy. Its shit like that that makes me think you are making convenient stances on people.

[LicketyQuickety]

ok i lean town on TSQ. after an ISO i like why he voted LQ. I'm not crazy about ppl that belittle me and I like to agg them on at some point. He's obviously confident in his own play if he's calling ppl idiots so i'm sure he'll have this game figured out by the next day phase.

So you are Town reading someone for being an asshole?

iv'e seen more assholes be town than be scum on this site. I said i liked why he voted you and i'm sure he'll be the greatest town asset i've ever seen on this site.

You clearly have not been here very long or have actually played much forum Mafia if you really think he's that good.

And you say you've seen more assholes be Town than Scum? What kind of fucked up observation is that? You think assholes are only assholes when they are Town? Unfucking believable.

[LicketyQuickety]

The reaction test I did might not be as strong as I thought. The thing that doesn't make it work is that I just assume people will know there is a difference between wagoning someone for pressure and lynching them. You might think this is dumb or whatever, but I can't help it, that is just how my brain works.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ... That doesn't line up with your reaction to havo mentioning a wagon on you. You explain there's wagoning for pressure and wagoning to lynch. So if havo mentioned a wagon on you why did you immediately assume that it wasn't to pressure you but to Lynch you?

Because its based on the idea that there is a difference between a wagon vote and a lynch vote. I don't expect people to understand. Its just really frustrating having this happen all the time.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ... That doesn't line up with your reaction to havo mentioning a wagon on you. You explain there's wagoning for pressure and wagoning to lynch. So if havo mentioned a wagon on you why did you immediately assume that it wasn't to pressure you but to Lynch you?

Because its based on the idea that there is a difference between a wagon vote and a lynch vote. I don't expect people to understand. Its just really frustrating having this happen all the time.

Didn't answer my question. If you believe there's 2 different types of wagons why did you assume havo wanted a wagon to Lynch you instead of to pressure you?

Well, it doesn't really matter. Havo used the word wagon and never implied they were voting to lynch. I said he was implying they were voting to lynch. Their response when I said those are bad reasons to lynch someone he said people get lynched for bad reasons all the time. I think that is at the least a poor response if not incredibly Scummy.

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ - Mumbles - Acid Scum Team?

This is looking better and better.

I mean, this is Pre-Flip and I shouldn't have to explain why Pre-Flip is a bad idea.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, Uzi sucks at reading me so I would take his opinion of me with a grain of salt.

[LicketyQuickety]

But it would mean something if he wasn't V/LA. You are being results oriented and not process oriented.

Except...that...he IS on V/LA...? He told us this. Unless you think he's lying, I don't see the point in you saying this.

Because what you are NOT thinking is "what if he DIDN'T go on V/LA." That is what I am talking about. I made the comment before he went on V/LA so I had no way of knowing if he was going to go on V/LA or not, hence why I made a play that makes a point if it turns out he WAS avoiding the thread. This is what I am talking about when I say you are being results oriented over process oriented - because you fail to connect the dots.

Well he left just as the thread was getting hot. Again, you can't look at what happened later after I said what I said, you have to consider what the context was at the time. And its not like he really did much, lets be honest here.

Didn't he "leave" for like 30 minutes? I've been leaving for more like 20 hours at a time. Why aren't you after me for "avoiding the thread"?

Because you have left the thread for 20 hours consistently. Mumble has done this thing where he has been engaging in the thread and then suddenly disappears without any reason given for why they are suddenly not there. I look at patterns of behavior, maybe you don't.

How? They were not indicating how they were reading people at all because of that. At least that is what it looks like to me.

The way he's going about it feels like he's attempting to sort the people who step up to play his game.

That's weird because I haven't seen Acid really make any stances during the time he was supposedly doing this.

Make a damn stance and man up. There is nothing wrong with my case on him.

I don't believe that there is anything wrong with your case, no. Like I said, the biggest things I see in you vs havo are associative, so I'm gonna reserve judgement on those interactions. I'm not town reading Havo if that's what you are after.

If by associative you mean its pretty likely we are not SvS, then I think that should be pretty obvious at this point. I don't like you just saying "well if one flips Town the other is Scum" and I shouldn't have to explain why.

Not really considering I didn't really want to cause a pile on Boon environment at the beginning of the game. That is how quick lunches happen and I try to avoid those because I have seen them happen in the past. I've talked to tsq in sitechat a bit - enough to know what he is like. And it was demonstrated that he's like a dog that doesn't let go of the rope so that's more reason to not want quick pressure on someone early from someone like him. Plus that was done at the beginning of the game when there is like nothing to go off of. Plus all it shows is that I am inconsistent, not that I am Scum.

No, the fact that you see the value in reaction tests shows that as town you'd want to let his play out. As scum, maybe you are worried about how your partners will react to it which isn't just inconsistency. It's possible scum motivation. The whole avoiding a quick lynch thing is a big change from the stupidity you first claimed too.

I think you are dumbing it down to be less complicated than it really is.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, Uzi sucks at reading me so I would take his opinion of me with a grain of salt.

Huh? When did I bring up your meta and why are you using it to discredit me?

You DIDN'T bring up my meta. That is my whole point. I am a player that requires meta on me to correctly read as Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

..lol

also i locktowned you like fiftythousand times over with zero meta

Yeah, every once in awhile there will be a person or game that reads me Town. It happens sometimes, but not as often as I would like. I think my Town game is on point, but most people either don't understand me or don't bother to even try to, which is worse.

[LicketyQuickety]

I feel like the reason I typically post so much is because I have to reply to people so often because they don't understand where I am coming from.

[LicketyQuickety]

Lickety,

I made the comment before he went on V/LA

*checks* ... oh. Well why didn't you just say that? lol

Because that is my biggest vice in this game in people not understanding me - I assume people are paying attention to what I am actually doing much more than they actually are. In short, I assumed you knew that already.

Because you have left the thread for 20 hours consistently.Mumble has done this thing where he has been engaging in the thread and then suddenly disappears without any reason given for why they are suddenly not there.

Uhhh...

Sorry for real-life stuff?

His reason is the same as mine.

Yeah, but I think (not as sure on this one) that its basically the same thing again - that he said he had real life shit after I mentioned him disappearing.

That's weird because I haven't seen Acid really make any stances during the time he was supposedly doing this.

What do you think he was doing if not trying to sort people?

Trying to Look like he was trying to sort people. I am completely undecided on Acid atm. Still trying to figure them out tbh. I throw out a lot of interpretations of things that only work with certain conditions. I am kinda just figuring out I do this now. This game has been an eye opener of sorts. Plus I just got done with a therapist appointment and we talked about people not understanding me so some of the pieces are coming together.

If by associative you mean its pretty likely we are not SvS, then I think that should be pretty obvious at this point. I don't like you just saying "well if one flips Town the other is Scum" and I shouldn't have to explain why.

Why should it be obvious you aren't both scum? I find it interesting that you'd say that. I agree with you on the second one though.

Because when I am looking for instances where people are not SvS I look for intent and I just assume people have come to the same kind of idea that I have about it.

I think you are dumbing it down to be less complicated than it really is.

And I think that these two posts don't make sense as answering the same question (why you outted boon's post as a possible reaction test):

Stupidity, mostly. Sometimes it works in my favor tho. Like when I say stuff like that it can end RVS in a heartbeat.

I didn't really want to cause a pile on Boon environment at the beginning of the game. That is how quick lunches happen and I try to avoid those because I have seen them happen in the past

Yeah, cuz I realized I prolly should have just let what boon did run its course right after it was brought up by EP(?). In the second quote I just give the reason for why I did it in the first place.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, Uzi sucks at reading me so I would take his opinion of me with a grain of salt.

Huh? When did I bring up your meta and why are you using it to discredit me?

You DIDN'T bring up my meta. That is my whole point. I am a player that requires meta on me to correctly read as Town.

I don’t believe that to be true but even if it was, I’d still be left confused.

You just claimed I can’t read you. Was your discrediting apparently to point out that I didn’t bring it up? If you believe what you claimed, wouldn’t you also believe I don’t have a good enough understanding of your meta to factor it into my read on you here?

Because you are a square and you play like a square. You don't actually try to understand what I say a lot of the time. Instead what you see is something that doesn't make sense so you think its Scummy, when, when its coming from me, its usually not Scummy.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think its pretty clear my vote on mumble was pressure.

I do not think hes town, though. It's not from any one thing, but its a culmination of things. But, again obviously, I think LQ is more likely to be scum.

1) He's disengaged with the game, and the kind of defeatism I see from him which leads to self voting and things like "come on, just lynch me already" are things I think are way more common from scum players than town players. Like, do new town players do stuff like this? Yes. But I see this as a "tactic" from new scum players to try to emotionally talk people out of their lynch more than anyone else in the game.

2) I did not like his and serg's interaction. It felt like staged distancing to me. None of it felt genuine, and none of it was similar to how either of them have interacted with anyone else in the game. It's notable, if nothing else.

3) If you read my article on arguing, one of the things that most causes me to think someone is scum when looking at their arguments is a refusal to concede points and arguing to "score points" instead of arrive at conclusions. Mumble fits this profile to a tee. His response to people questioning him is to attack them and to say that "no one is reading the things [he] posts." when, if you go look at the things he posts, none of them remotely relate to the arguments he's having.

Could he just be terrible or not know what he's doing? Sure, but his actions don't feel random to me. If you look at someone like tchill, who I am town reading pretty hard despite also erratic behavior, his actions seem genuinely uninformed. They don't seem to have a concrete purpose. Mumble on the other hand seems to know exactly what he's doing, to me.

1.) Not AI
2.) Pre-Flip
3.) This has more to do with personality than an actual tell IMO. Like some people play that way all the time. Also, if you look at my meta I am actually more like that as Town than Scum.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, Uzi sucks at reading me so I would take his opinion of me with a grain of salt.

Huh? When did I bring up your meta and why are you using it to discredit me?

You DIDN'T bring up my meta. That is my whole point. I am a player that requires meta on me to correctly read as Town.

I don’t believe that to be true but even if it was, I’d still be left confused.

You just claimed I can’t read you. Was your discrediting apparently to point out that I didn’t bring it up? If you believe what you claimed, wouldn’t you also believe I don’t have a good enough understanding of your meta to factor it into my read on you here?

Because you are a square and you play like a square. You don't actually try to understand what I say a lot of the time. Instead what you see is something that doesn't make sense so you think its Scummy, when, when its coming from me, its usually not Scummy.

I’ve never been told I play in a boring way so that’s a first.

It is a two-way street my man. I explained why I found issue with a lot of your pushing on Havo and Lalendra. I’ve attempted to understand how you can have you conclusions on them as well. You’ve left me each time thinking that you’re just scum reaching.

I rest my case.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, I am pretty sure Town wins this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Uzi,

I wasn't trying to say your playstyle is boring. I was just trying to say that when something comes out of left field, you don't really know how to deal with that. There are prolly worse offenders of being a square in this game than you fwiw.

[LicketyQuickety]

Yeah, but I think (not as sure on this one) that its basically the same thing again - that he said he had real life shit after I mentioned him disappearing.

No, the difference is that the first one was you showing something you'd said earlier and where your head was at at that time. This one is something we are discussing now. We have the information that mumble claims real life pulled him from the thread for 30 minutes. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to still believe he chose to intentionally avoid the thread. I think that lying about RL is unethical, so I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to RL. Do you disagree?

No, I don't still think that and I agree that lying about RL is unethical.

Trying to Look like he was trying to sort people. I am completely undecided on Acid atm. Still trying to figure them out tbh.

Fair on being undecided, but was there something about his posts that didn't feel genuine? Because I say he was sorting people and you say he was trying to look like he was sorting people. That means if you are town and this is a genuine read, we are seeing the same thing but seeing it in different ways. Is there something that stands out as just giving off an appearance there rather than actually doing it?

Its not necessarily that I think that Acids play didn't feel genuine. Its that I tend to be preemptive in my arguments so that they can't claim something else later. My argument on Acid is that he really wasn't saying "OK I sorted you and you are Scum/Town" That is what I would expect someone who is actively sorting people in real time. Like if you are going to deliberate a read, then that is different than getting reads in real time. IDK if you understand what I am saying, but those are my thoughts on it.

Because when I am looking for instances where people are not SvS I look for intent and I just assume people have come to the same kind of idea that I have about it.

That's good because that's what I do too. And it's entirely possible that the intent from a hypothetical you/havo team is "oh shit lickety is going down, better get havo some town points after the lynch happens". To be fair, it could also be scum-you trying to swing things to a havo lynch (but then I'd have to ask "why not mumble" or scum-havo going after an opportunistic lynch on a town-you who genuinely believes havo is scum. All of these are possibilities, but all of them are based on associative tells so I don't want to sort through the possibilities before I have a solid answer somewhere. But you completely ruling out the scum/scum one even from MY point of view is very interesting. Bussing happens and this would be a decent time to do it if you were both scum.

I am not sure what you want me to say here. I am Town and I think Havo is Scum. I don't think my read is as strong as I originally thought because I have an added perspective that not everyone can make the distinction between a wagon vote and a lynch vote.

Yeah, cuz I realized I prolly should have just let what boon did run its course right after it was brought up by EP(?). In the second quote I just give the reason for why I did it in the first place.

I dunno, I'm not really following you. If you were trying to get out of RVS, that implies that without your post we stay in RVS and boon is in no danger. The second quote implies that danger. I still feel like the main ideas of those two quotes don't fit.

My mind comes up with conclusions faster than my ability to weight out the consequences of my actions. In this specific instance, I didn't want Boon to get a huge wagon on him if he was doing a reaction test because as we have seen from what I have done with Havo, that can get you into trouble. I don't like games that have a fast start to them when it comes to wagons. I like getting out of RVS asap, but I don't like people just wagoning someone for zero reason with their reason being "pressure" because I have seen where someone hammers and then goes "oops" and then it turns out that its oops on us for not putting pressure on the hammer vote. In short, what I did with boon is make a precautionary play so that there wouldn't be a quick wagon on Boon because I don't like quick wagons because they can lead to quicklyches.

[LicketyQuickety]

I promise I will read this whole game by the end of the weekend and give some actual reads and arguments. Sorry mates, midterms on my ass.

I will hold you to that.

[LicketyQuickety]

How is LQ townier than havo atm? LQ has reacted worse to pressure than havo I don't see where that point is coming from.

How? Like I am not a mind reader. I don't know why you think I reacted poorly to pressure.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think I am just not going to post tomorrow because I am posting way too much.

[LicketyQuickety]

How is LQ townier than havo atm? LQ has reacted worse to pressure than havo I don't see where that point is coming from.

How? Like I am not a mind reader. I don't know why you think I reacted poorly to pressure.

Havo mentioned a wagon on you and your blew up. You then fire back and havo scum reads you even more for omgus which makes sense to me. I need EP to explain exactly how havo reacted "badly".

Yeah, that explains it. You are already assuming I am Scum in this scenario because otherwise you wouldn't be looking at it like an OMGUS. I am NOT OMGUSing Havo and even if I was OMGUS isn't a Scum tell.

[LicketyQuickety]

Just clarifying here that I wont be posting tomorrow in this thread.

[LicketyQuickety]

It was LQ who came apart at the seams from me merely suggesting I’d like to see a wagon on him. He exploded and threw a desperate attempt to paint me as scum just to try and get the pressure off of himself. How can you not see that? That raises a huge Red Flag for me on you. I wanted your opinion because you were my top TR but the fact that you’re clearly ignoring LQs reaction here has ruined that.

If LQs accusations towards me actually make sense to you or anyone else then maybe they can explain them. Because I still don’t get where any of it makes any sense at all.

Reaction to pressure is a basic fundamental part of game solving. And yes townies can react poorly at times to it. But when someone completely blows up or completely shuts down due to it that’s a giant red flag. And the fact that anyone is ignoring his huge over reaction is bad.

so LQ freaks out when havo mentions a wagon and votes havo, mumble then votes havo because havo was mentioned in the midst of the mumble push then mumble votes himself again, Tacos naked votes havo, acid votes havo with little to no explanation and now we have EP all of a sudden stating Havo reacted worse to pressure than mumble or LQ? Anybody see my issue with the havo wagon to be? im pretty curious as to what EP's case will be because LQ, Mumble and acid are all scum reads from my perspective in their own right that voted havo for either no reason or a horrible one.

Here's why this argument is flawed:

There was ALREADY a wagon on me at the time I went after Havo. tsq has had 2 Scum reads all game that he has been pushing hard: Boon and I. If I was going to "lash out" at anyone, it would be tsq instead of Havo. Reasons for this is that I originally disagreed with, or at least questioned tsq in their read on boon. So if I am Scum I already have ammunition to attack tsq for having a bad point on Boon. But as I stated, I said tsq made decent points, pointing out later that they were not good points, but decent points. There was every incentive by tsq's logic for me to "argue point by point" against him in his read on Boon and later on me. Like if I was going to flip out I would have done it against tsq. I would have brought up at the time that tsq threw accusations at me that I am not understood rather than waiting until I make an an actual case against Havo. I mean, why would I be attacking Havo specifically for the threat of a wagon when there was already a wagon pushed on me, which had votes - I was the biggest wagon at the time - because of tsq leading the charge on me. The fatal mistake that both Chill AND Havo make, is that they both view this flaw equally. No one else is pushing this angle except them. Now I am not saying there is a Scum link between them, but I am saying that its very very likely that at least one of them is Scum because they would not both be trying to exploit the same exact flaw in judgement that they are both making. Basically, the flaw is that they are both assuming the same thing about my play that is not even accurate. They both are assuming that I am a volatile player who flew off the handle because of something as minor as the threat of a wagon when A.) Havo was voting my biggest opposition at the time (tsq) and B.) That I have more cause to go after Havo than tsq because I am a hot head. Let me tell you, both of these things are blatantly untrue. First off, My arguments are always based on my logical interpretation of things, they are rarely if ever fueled by emotional arguments. Just because people don't understand how I get from point A to point B does NOT mean that I am a hot head. This is the lie that they are spewing and it just does not make sense. Think about this: I never once used an ad hom attack. The reason for this is that I am NOT a hot head. I might type with fervor, but its always based on logic instead of emotion.

"I'm posting too much so let me double-post about how I'm not going to post" lol

I got $5 that says he posts today. Lol.

I will accept a mail in check only.

[LicketyQuickety]

Reads list:

Town

EP
Uzi
Egg

Lean Town

thestatusquo
Lalendra
Mumble

Null

Tocos
Schadd
Acid
Boon

Lean Scum

Havo
Chill

[LicketyQuickety]

I hope everything works out for you Boon, that really sucks.

[LicketyQuickety]

Before I read any of the new posts I'm gonna address the first issue at hand. It's a long post so I'll highlight the main points.

First note that I think that when reading people we should look at things holistically because rarely is there one thing that makes someone 100% town or scumread.
I'll say there is usually one single specific reason at the crux of most fairly confident reads from me. But with less confident reads, most of the time it's me reading a bunch of things that tend towards one alignment (but can individually come from either) and Havo is one weaker read. Hope that makes sense.

I know it's unfair because

some of the stuff that LQ is saying is so blatantly illogical (and following that I would be contextually okay with an LQ lynch on D1 if we needed to push lynches through)

----

Addressing 597 by Havo.

I want to start by responding to how you describe LQ in 399.
"you went APESHIT!! At the mere mention of a WAgon on you."
Is that weird? Is that scummy enough to bring over again and again, getting agitated when people don't see it your way? Is that scummy enough to base an entire push on LQ over? No, it's really really not.

Town goes APESHIT!! all the time.

All the heckin time. Every single game there's that one town guy that blows up/gives up/gets angry, and that's not an exaggeration.

Regardless of whatever is said people who want to discredit my argument because "too scummy to be scum" is a bad argument? The fact remains that

scum's top goal in this game is to survive.

They don't want to draw attention to themselves on D1. I can count the people that can use emotion/blowing up to legitimate great effect as scum on one hand. Town blows up all the time. I strongly dislike that you're using this as the crux of your push on LQ.

And I find it situationally odd how you react to LQ's post.

In reality there really isn't that much pressure on you during the entire LQ/Havo battle.

LQ's wagon has consistently been higher than yours, along with Mumble. Maybe I'm misremembering this, but

you take LQ's case, which is transparently terrible and illogical from my point of view and pick it apart.

The way I see it, you tear it to shreds and don't know what to do when LQ stubbornly pushes onward. And rather than moving on, ignoring that light pressure, and effectively defusing by directing your attention elsewhere, like engaging your other scumreads? You start focusing the majority of your attention on LQ. Reiterating stuff over and over. I've been scum in that position and done the same thing because it's frustrating. That's why I think your actions potentially strongly align with scum here.

---

And because I'm tired of typing, I'll just extend most of what I just said to Mumble. Don't think he's playing like someone whose win condition is centered around surviving.

Point out the things that are illogical that I am saying.

[LicketyQuickety]

I hope I'm not coming across as rude, but... I don't really want to spend the time noting, thinking about, or typing exactly where and how I disagree with you because I don't really think it matters.

But you're right if you felt like that post turned into an unnecessary amount of discrediting thrown your way and that wasn't my intention.
People are free to read your posts and make their own decisions about them. Doesn't really matter that much to me.

No, see, it does kind of matter because otherwise it can look like you are actually trying to ensure my lynch without actually having a Scum read on me.

[LicketyQuickety]

I wouldn’t say you lashed out LQ but you definitely reacted in a way that was not positive. The only thing close to justify your reaction in 359 is 34 and 163. I don’t see how being frustrated at putting an end to a reaction test before it even started or a slight scum lean based on your effort bring viewed as not realistic up until that point is someone disliking your play style.

You do pose a good question about why you would be attacking Havo for the threat of a wagon. It’s possible that you partners view Havo as a strong town player and you felt him suspecting you would be the straw that broke the camels back and get you lynched.

I am going to attempt to not be so aggressive and such an asshole. Maybe that will change people thinking I am not making sense.

359 was in reference to 31. IIRC Havo hadn't really stated a strong Scum read on me until 350. I just didn't see any reasons for Havo Scum reading me at that point. It seemed to come out of nowhere. Given 31, I was wondering what their reason for suspecting me was because they hadn't stated one prior to that. Granted, I could have said it differently and not been such an asshole about it, but the point is the same.

[LicketyQuickety]

You're dropping with your LQ lynch lineup, btw. If you are town, take into consideration my town flip and the night kill before guns blazing tomorrow.

Obviously I'll take the results of your flip into consideration when voting tomorrow, but I'm not sure that you flipping town would give me any reason NOT to vote LQ, as the interaction between the two of you has been minimal iirc (ISOing now)

I don't interact with people who screw around.

[LicketyQuickety]

You're dropping with your LQ lynch lineup, btw. If you are town, take into consideration my town flip and the night kill before guns blazing tomorrow.

Obviously I'll take the results of your flip into consideration when voting tomorrow, but I'm not sure that you flipping town would give me any reason NOT to vote LQ, as the interaction between the two of you has been minimal iirc (ISOing now)

I don't interact with people who screw around.

Other people I have not interacted with:

Taco
Schadd
Boon

[LicketyQuickety]

Okay, yeah, my opinion hasn't really changed. Mumble doesn't really engage with LQ much at all, aside from a couple of comments about playstyle and strategy; Mumble is notably absent from LQ's readslist in 64, and LQ doesn't even really address Mumble until much later on. Instead he spends a lot of time disagreeing with my points on Mumble without ever really even mentioning him until after post 300, which is weird to me. I'm still not sold on the idea that this isn't distancing. I will need to really wait until one of them (whoever gets lynched D1) flips before I can really make much of this association.

If I was distancing from Mumble, he would be a much higher wagon than he is right now.

[LicketyQuickety]

@MOD,

Can we get a VC please?

[LicketyQuickety]

Egg makes a good point against me in that it is harder to argue with tsq than Havo. But that's because tsq doesn't change his mind, not because he is so on point.

[LicketyQuickety]

Egg makes a good point against me in that it is harder to argue with tsq than Havo. But that's because tsq doesn't change his mind, not because he is so on point.

Sorry, context. No one is really super on point in this game, meaning you are going to be wrong a lot in this game.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Uzi, why are you posting so little?

@Tocos, where are you?

[LicketyQuickety]

??? ??

on second thought I take back these question marks, LUV has been incredibly low impact to me as a player

He is usually a high volume poster. He's not at all in this game and I don't know what's going on with that.

[LicketyQuickety]

I like Boon's set of posts

What do you like about them? They seem just like naked reads IMO.

[LicketyQuickety]

Hoping that some of the people from the LQ wagon will switch their vote over to Mumble so we can get that lynch through (since, by his own admission, his survival "will only help scum") and then we can move on to lynching LQ tomorrow.

Mumble is a tough read. Its a question of whether he is bluffing or not. I'm inclined to think he is not actually bluffing.

[LicketyQuickety]

I like Boon's set of posts

What do you like about them? They seem just like naked reads IMO.

Yeah, but he can tell I have reasoning behind all of them.

I wanted EP to answer. EP has seen little pressure. The only pressure they really got was from Chill, which is pretty "meh" if you ask me.

[LicketyQuickety]

"Meh" because he's not one of of my scum reads. Boon brings up interesting points on uzi and tacos. So why do you feel uzi is lurking here and not town that's just caught up? While I haven't seen tacos play like this before I'm wondering why you lean towards town tacos due to his change in play style. I'm currently null on tacos and lean town on uzi due to his interaction with havo. So I'm wondering about your input on these slots.

Fake reads are fake.

[LicketyQuickety]

"Meh" because he's not one of of my scum reads. Boon brings up interesting points on uzi and tacos. So why do you feel uzi is lurking here and not town that's just caught up? While I haven't seen tacos play like this before I'm wondering why you lean towards town tacos due to his change in play style. I'm currently null on tacos and lean town on uzi due to his interaction with havo. So I'm wondering about your input on these slots.

Fake reads are fake.

I wanted boon to answer. Boon has seen little pressure.

This is like the gazillionth time you have avoided me when I throw an accusation your way.

[LicketyQuickety]

You wanna go bro? You want me to mention I'd like a wagon on you and watch you flip out? Don't make me say it. I swear I will. I wouldn't mind a wagon on...

Wow. Easy mate. What did I do to piss you off?

[LicketyQuickety]

i'm not saying boon is town, I'm just saying I like his reads because his reads are great.
LQ, could you respond to the thing that I said right before the line you quoted

I could. But you still haven't really said what I said is illogical. I think its a matter of perspective and weighing different things differently and has nothing to do with the logic itself.

[LicketyQuickety]

I have to go. BBL.

[LicketyQuickety]

Saying "so and so is scum" or "this fake because it's fake" is actually not an accusation. There's no reasoning behind it. There's no reason for me to engage in that if that's all you're gonna do.

LQ needs to address this when he gets back.

Your Toco read makes no sense. That's what I was talking about.

[LicketyQuickety]

Okay, yeah, my opinion hasn't really changed. Mumble doesn't really engage with LQ much at all, aside from a couple of comments about playstyle and strategy; Mumble is notably absent from LQ's readslist in 64, and LQ doesn't even really address Mumble until much later on. Instead he spends a lot of time disagreeing with my points on Mumble without ever really even mentioning him until after post 300, which is weird to me. I'm still not sold on the idea that this isn't distancing. I will need to really wait until one of them (whoever gets lynched D1) flips before I can really make much of this association.

Lalendra are you stating you think mumble,LQ,havo could be the scum team?

How many times do I need to state that Pre-Flip is a bad idea in this game?

[LicketyQuickety]

i was just poking people with a question to engage in conversation and get the game going again.

Uh-huh, sure.

[LicketyQuickety]

My read on taco makes no sense because it's a read based on familiarity with tacos. We've played together a lot and i've had a history of misreading him so i'm not gonna try to day 1 at least.

Yeah, I was already taking that into account. Yawn.

[LicketyQuickety]

"Meh" because he's not one of of my scum reads. Boon brings up interesting points on uzi and tacos. So why do you feel uzi is lurking here and not town that's just caught up? While I haven't seen tacos play like this before I'm wondering why you lean towards town tacos due to his change in play style. I'm currently null on tacos and lean town on uzi due to his interaction with havo. So I'm wondering about your input on these slots.

Fake reads are fake.

I wanted boon to answer. Boon has seen little pressure.

oh ok you got it figured out then. i'm sorry i thought you were asking because you didn't know. next question.

Yet another time you are trying to just shrug off my accusations.

[LicketyQuickety]

"Meh" because he's not one of of my scum reads. Boon brings up interesting points on uzi and tacos. So why do you feel uzi is lurking here and not town that's just caught up? While I haven't seen tacos play like this before I'm wondering why you lean towards town tacos due to his change in play style. I'm currently null on tacos and lean town on uzi due to his interaction with havo. So I'm wondering about your input on these slots.

First thing you do that is like "huh?" is that you are either you forgetting about the beginning of the game and were asking people to vote for EP, or you are trying to distance yourself from scum reading EP at a point in the game.

I didn't answer this before but I feel Uzi isn't posting as much as I have known him to normally post for an unknown reason. He hasn't answered me on that yet. IDK if he is lurking or if he just isn't paying attention to this game. I never said he was lurking. You prolly will not see that there is a difference in what I am saying, but its whatevs.

What doesn't make sense about your read on taco is because of what you said multiple times about taco earlier ITT:

Me and tacos I don't think have ever seen eye to eye on this site lol.

I've just decided to let everyone else get a read on tacos because I swear he's scum every time I play with him then he flips town....every....time.

Because I literally can't read you tacos especially not on page 5 of a game. Why are you concerned with my read on you?

Never change tacos. The one game I read your as town your gonna be scum lmao.

What I am seeing is that when Boon brings up the point about Tacos, suddenly you are talking like you understand him so well and can actually get a decent read on him. This could be reaching, but the way I see it, it should be obvious that there is a reason that taco is playing differently which is that he has exams and can't devote time to this game much right now. That said, I really would like to see him show up since he said he would post this weekend. Its sunday my time so he already missed a whole day of posting, which is very concerning to me.

And I'm not sure why you think I have a Town read on toco when I listed him as Null in my reads list. Unless you were addressing Boon on that, but then I really have no idea how anyone is going to decipher your post at first glace considering I assume you were talking to me about the "Meh" comment. Not a cut, but its really hard to understand that, at least for me.

As far as my read on Tocos, he's unreadable given what he has done this game. I am Town reading Uzi for his content, but I would be lying if I said I didn't have a problem with his lack of posts.

[LicketyQuickety]

the "meh" comment was in response to LQ. the rest of the statement was made towards Boon. I was more interested in how boonskies came to a conclusion on tacos and that's why i asked the way i did.

Are you going to address the other things I said?

[LicketyQuickety]

yeah i scum read tacos every time i play with him. i scum read him now lol. but im not lynching tacos every game because i dont agree with his play style. thats dumb. thats why i said other ppl can sort him.

Forgive me, but this doesn't make any damn sense to me. You told me you had him as null, and then clarified that you had him as Null. I even brought up the bit about you not understanding him and now you see the point that Boon has. Now you are telling us that you Scum read him. Surely you can see how I could be confused by this, right? x_x

[LicketyQuickety]

Uzi, you've just sorta been... there.

[LicketyQuickety]

Uzi, you've just sorta been... there.

I don’t get it.

You haven't really been pushing anything, you haven't really made any cases, you haven't really done much of anything. You are just there. I was Town reading you for your interpretation behind Lalendra's actions, but that's really all I have to go off of. You haven't made your case on me (no doubt you are waiting for an opportune time) and IDK if you have ever really stated Town reads??? Point out your Town reads that you have because I don't remember what they are.

[LicketyQuickety]

Uzi, you've just sorta been... there.

I don’t get it.

You haven't really been pushing anything, you haven't really made any cases, you haven't really done much of anything. You are just there. I was Town reading you for your interpretation behind Lalendra's actions, but that's really all I have to go off of. You haven't made your case on me (no doubt you are waiting for an opportune time) and IDK if you have ever really stated Town reads??? Point out your Town reads that you have because I don't remember what they are.

Huh?

I’ve been questioning things as I go and I’ve been pushing you. If you’re looking for me to call for help on pushing a wagon or to lynch a player, you’ll be waiting a long time. I let my interactions with who I scum read do the talking while defending others and pointing out stuff.

I don’t do cases in the traditional sense but I’m pretty sure I went over why I think you’re scum. I also don’t talk about town reads much either because I feel doing so just helps scum. I feel pretty good about Egg, Errant, Havo, Lalendra, and Mumble though.

Yeah, I think I figured it out. Its the way you phrase things. Its just completely different than the way I do it. You are kinda passive in the way you state things. It just doesn't have a whole lot of Umph. Not a cut, its just that you don't really post with a lot of fervor in how you come across.

I ISO'd you. You seem to point out things you don't like in a way that isn't really made in a way that the person who did the thing you don't like to be able to argue with. That is not the way I like to play at all. I tend to get reads based on how people react to me. You don't seem to play that way at all.

Some things I came across:

IIRC, you are basically Scum reading me for my case on Lalendra and Havo, right? What if I said I changed my read on Lalendra based on my interaction with them? I have done very similar things before as Town. Look at how I interacted with Sorry in the beginning of this game. It should shed some light on my play with Lalendra and Havo. I throw weird accusations at people... All. The. Time. so I am not sure why you think this would make me Scum, especially considering that you have seen me do it before in this game and also in this game. I am not trying to self meta, but you are leaving me with little option considering you really should have some sort of idea of my playstyle at this point.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Chill

There are too many people who are not really that active. Toco, Egg, Schadd, and Lalendra need to post more.

[LicketyQuickety]

@MOD,

Tocos and Schadd need prods. tsq is going to need one in like 3 hours.

[LicketyQuickety]

Egg makes a good point against me in that it is harder to argue with tsq than Havo. But that's because tsq doesn't change his mind, not because he is so on point.

Sorry, context. No one is really super on point in this game, meaning you are going to be wrong a lot in this game.

Actually, scratch that.

Explain this. Why do you feel town wins yet no one is super on point, implying no ones doing great right now?

Has to do with an article that will prolly be posted on MU.

Basically, the article states there are different ways to Scum hunt but no way to do this is infallible, so Town are going to be wrong a lot.

[LicketyQuickety]

I want to apologise to the people in this thread for 2 things:

1. I have been posting too much. I am going to try and think through my posts more and not post as often.
   
2. I have been a jerk. I will try and curb my enthusiasm regarding the attacking language I have been using.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think the game itself has bogged down and stagnated to a large degree. I think we need to move on to Day 2 honestly and I'm looking forward to the night.

I think Mumble is the best lynch right now and we need to finish this lynch and get to Day 2.

Fine, but not until prods are given.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Chill

There are too many people who are not really that active. Toco, Egg, Schadd, and Lalendra need to post more.

Once again... Can you please give some reason and justification behind your finger pointing?

I've stated several reasons for why you are Scum, one of which is that when I try to engage with you by accusing you of something, you completely ignore me.

[LicketyQuickety]

Ok LQ ok. You've made me do it. I wouldn't mind a wagon on LQ.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[LicketyQuickety]

Beetlejuice.

Am I doing it right?

[LicketyQuickety]

Tired of ppl not giving any reason to their statements.

I know, its bizarre.

http://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Beetlejuice

[LicketyQuickety]

Beetlejuice.

Am I doing it right?

ya

Wear were ya m8?

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Mumbles

VOTE: tovaos

You said you would provide actual thoughts on the game IIRC.

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Mumbles

VOTE: tovaos

You said you would provide actual thoughts on the game IIRC.

VOTE: tocos

[LicketyQuickety]

VOTE: Mumbles

VOTE: tovaos

You said you would provide actual thoughts on the game IIRC.

I tried and life is busy so what do you want me to do. Besides i dont think TOWN would hold this kind of thing against me, scum would. So yeah, you're scum.

Nope, pretty sure its a matter of principle. You said you would do something and haven't done it. How you get a Scum read on me for holding you to what you said you would do is beyond me.

[LicketyQuickety]

Actually i skimmed read the ISO though. You and Mumble seem scummy to me so my vote will either stay on mumble or switch over on you if your wagon gets bigger.

K. Why?

[LicketyQuickety]

Lalendra are you stating you think mumble,LQ,havo could be the scum team?

I'm pretty confident in Mumbles/LQ, I'm not sure about the third yet.

Do go on.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm torn between LQ and mumble.

You said mumble self voting cemented your scum read for him. What is it about LQ that's strong enough to question voting LQ instead of mumble?

Just...everything. I don't really know how to explain it, I'm just not finding that I'm satisfied with any of his responses. None of them make me go "Hmm, okay, maybe he IS town." My vote is staying on Mumble though because I am convinced he's scum, and even if he's not scum, his defeatist attitude, lack of real scumhunting and active lurking are not going to help town.

Like... This post is about as much in to detail that you are capable of or...

[LicketyQuickety]

I’d be very skeptical of you suddenly changing your read on old content you found scummy.

Why? Why is it questionable to reconsider old info?

[LicketyQuickety]

I’d be very skeptical of you suddenly changing your read on old content you found scummy.

Why? Why is it questionable to reconsider old info?

It’s questionable because of how hard you seemed to buckled down on your stance. I can see a reset or you dialing down your tunneling but I can’t see you suddenly not finding issues with her reads list or being skeptical of her really being a newbie without new information or even new takes on that old content.

The thing is, I already went through Lalendra. I already tunneled them and decided there was a good chance they were Town. I never explicitly stated a change in read on her, but I did switch my vote and later made a readlist where she was in the lean Town category. So its not even that I have "all the sudden" changed my read on them. If you go back and look, I stopped pressuring her. That should be a sign to you what I was thinking about that slot.

[LicketyQuickety]

@Uzi,

Read 186 and tell me if you think I was still heavily Scum reading that slot.

True, later I said she didn't follow up with me. BUT I dropped it because I thought that it was more likely she was Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

I’d be very skeptical of you suddenly changing your read on old content you found scummy.

Why? Why is it questionable to reconsider old info?

It’s questionable because of how hard you seemed to buckled down on your stance. I can see a reset or you dialing down your tunneling but I can’t see you suddenly not finding issues with her reads list or being skeptical of her really being a newbie without new information or even new takes on that old content.

The thing is, I already went through Lalendra. I already tunneled them and decided there was a good chance they were Town. I never explicitly stated a change in read on her, but I did switch my vote and later made a readlist where she was in the lean Town category. So its not even that I have "all the sudden" changed my read on them. If you go back and look, I stopped pressuring her. That should be a sign to you what I was thinking about that slot.

I didn’t see that you do lean town on her for some reason. Odd.

Why don’t you suspect her anymore?

Two reasons:

1) There are bigger fish to fry.
2) A lot of the reasons I was Scum reading her were based on misunderstandings.

[LicketyQuickety]

I'm torn between LQ and mumble.

You said mumble self voting cemented your scum read for him. What is it about LQ that's strong enough to question voting LQ instead of mumble?

Just...everything. I don't really know how to explain it, I'm just not finding that I'm satisfied with any of his responses. None of them make me go "Hmm, okay, maybe he IS town." My vote is staying on Mumble though because I am convinced he's scum, and even if he's not scum, his defeatist attitude, lack of real scumhunting and active lurking are not going to help town.

Like... This post is about as much in to detail that you are capable of or...

I assumed you're talking about what I said about you, and not what I said about Mumbles, because I felt like that was pretty clear. As far as my read on you, yes, that's "about as much in to detail that I am capable of", because as I said, it's not a solid read. It's a gut feeling.

Well your gut is wrong. What is your counter argument?

[LicketyQuickety]

I’d say you still did.

You question her on wanting to see the results of Boon’s reaction test before potential trying to reaction test herself. The same reaction test that you found hard to believe town would attempt after seeing it already done before. You imply she might be coached or lying about her experience because of her stance on reads list. And finally, you point out how you interpreted her reads on Schadd and Taco. All of these point to you still trying to sort but also point out the flaws in the logic of someone you believe to be scum for others.

196, 222, and 231 say otherwise too. I believe you probably were leaning scum on her in 306. I think you just stopped voting her because you saw it wasn’t gaining any traction to be honest which is NAI but how you got your read on her as well as your pushes is my issue.

As for 627, I’m a bit miffed that I missed this but looking back, my brain probably glanced over it as I tend to don’t ask why people town read others and mainly focus on there scum reads. Looking at you leaning town on Lalendra here is creeping me out even more because the only posts I believe she had after her argument with Mumble was calling to lynch you and him and feeling sorry for a Boon IRL. So what changed?

196, 222, and 231 are posts addressing a matter of principle. Plus I wasn't actually stating a Scum read on them there. 306, if anything, should be viewed as a null read, not a Scum read. This is pretty sloppy Uzi.

Town reads matter because they can create a Town block, which is necessary in some games. Granted I know you don't think much of Town reads, but that doesn't give you the excuse to ignore other peoples Town reads. Town reads are part of the game whether you want them to be or not.

[LicketyQuickety]

Well your gut is wrong. What is your counter argument?

...Okay? Can't really counter "You're wrong." Because I might really be wrong, or you might be scum who is just saying that. I don't really have any way of knowing at this stage.

We have 36 pages. Your

gut

is wrong is the perfect counter to your argument because if you had anything more than gut then you would be able to counter my point. If you were to say I am Scum for x, y, z, then I couldn't possibly argue "your wrong" because its isn't an actual argument and doesn't address any of your points. So if I say "your gut is wrong" you better have something other than gut to base your read on. Saying you have a read based on gut shouldn't convince anyone of anything because of how easy it is for Scum to do the same thing. Do you see my point now?

[LicketyQuickety]

I’d say you still did.

You question her on wanting to see the results of Boon’s reaction test before potential trying to reaction test herself. The same reaction test that you found hard to believe town would attempt after seeing it already done before. You imply she might be coached or lying about her experience because of her stance on reads list. And finally, you point out how you interpreted her reads on Schadd and Taco. All of these point to you still trying to sort but also point out the flaws in the logic of someone you believe to be scum for others.

196, 222, and 231 say otherwise too. I believe you probably were leaning scum on her in 306. I think you just stopped voting her because you saw it wasn’t gaining any traction to be honest which is NAI but how you got your read on her as well as your pushes is my issue.

As for 627, I’m a bit miffed that I missed this but looking back, my brain probably glanced over it as I tend to don’t ask why people town read others and mainly focus on there scum reads. Looking at you leaning town on Lalendra here is creeping me out even more because the only posts I believe she had after her argument with Mumble was calling to lynch you and him and feeling sorry for a Boon IRL. So what changed?

196, 222, and 231 are posts addressing a matter of principle. Plus I wasn't actually stating a Scum read on them there. 306, if anything, should be viewed as a null read, not a Scum read. This is pretty sloppy Uzi.

Town reads matter because they can create a Town block, which is necessary in some games. Granted I know you don't think much of Town reads, but that doesn't give you the excuse to ignore other peoples Town reads. Town reads are part of the game whether you want them to be or not.

Those posts still reinforce how you came off earlier and not being able to shake the bad vibe from in 306 implies your gut still leaned scum on her. Am I missing something?

I don’t believe in town blocks. I mostly ignore town reads because I find them harder to differentiate when they’re bullshit and when they’re not. It doesn’t help me sort players and solve the game basically.

Here is the post:

Lalendra: I am kinda on the fence about this one. Like most things they say make sense, but I just get a really bad vibe from them that I can't really explain.

All you are looking at is the bad vibe thing. If that is all you look at, yeah, it looks like a Scum read. But I have never been someone who bases a read based on vibe alone. I making the point that it's a null read based on my conclusion of the slot which is that I was on the fence about Lalendra. "On the fense" is me stating overall what my read on them is. Why would I say that unless that is what I actually think of the slot? I also point out a thing that can interpreted as a Town read if you take that in isolation, so I don't see how you can see this read and think its a Scum read at all.

[LicketyQuickety]

It wasn't that I didn't see your point, it was that I had already stated that it was a gut read, so fishing for more concrete reasons is fruitless when I already admitted that I didn't have them. I was pretty transparent when I said that it was a gut read so your digging is pointless. Blood and turnips and what-have-you.

Yeah, and that is YOUR fault for not having good enough reasons that I can't counter. The burden of proof is on you. I say this as a matter of speaking and not literally, but the point is the same. YOU claimed I was Scum so YOU have to show WHY I am Scum otherwise your read means nothing because as I earlier stated, anyone can claim any gut read on anyone and it shouldn't convince anyone of anything. What is stopping Scum from giving a gut read like this that you have given? A: Nothing.

[LicketyQuickety]

I do find it ironic that you are pushing me so hard on the "gut feeling" and needing more reasons yet you just said that your scum read in 306 was based on "a really bad vibe". That absolutely looks like a scum read, full stop. I feel that you're just trying to wriggle out of it now.

That is because I am trying to teach you something about this game as opposed to actually Scum reading you.

[LicketyQuickety]

Mainly because of the last part. I feel if it was null it would be just that you’re on the fence about them.

To me it reads like you can see why people think she’s town but the vibe I’m getting from the majority of her posts makes me still suspect her because I cannot shake it.

But that's not what I said and it shouldn't be taken that I implied that. If you still think this, it means you are Scum reading me before analyzing the information instead of the opposite.

[LicketyQuickety]

So you didn't scum read me but you voted me anyway?

No, I was kinda Scum reading you at the time I voted you. But you have to remember that it was early in the game and not much had happened. I thought you were talking about my read on you currently, which is that I read you as lean Town.

[LicketyQuickety]

Maybe I’m not making myself clear.

I think if you absolutely had to have state whether she was town or scum there, you would say scum.

Orly?

Why do you say that? Now you are trying to say you can read my mind. Do go on.

[LicketyQuickety]

I mean, if you have more evidence for this Uzi, then we can discuss this more, but otherwise you are just being silly, and I think I might be considering changing my read on you.

[LicketyQuickety]

Did you miss when I said your previous posts up until that point?

EBWOP.

Yeah, I read it. I think you are playing semantics.

[LicketyQuickety]

I’m not.

I stated why I felt you were leaning more towards her being scum on that read there and you jumped to me saying I can read your mind. I tried to clarify what I meant. I’m going to again. I think the term I’m looking for is null-scum.

But like..........

I didn't imply it was a gut read.........

I implied (actually, I very explicitly stated) that I was on the fence about them.

I gave my overall thoughts on Lalendra first, and you can't tell me I didn't. I then basically stated that my head was telling me that they were Town and that my gut was telling me I was uneasy about them. My gut is STILL uneasy about them (and this is NOT the same as a Scum read) because they don't back up their arguments with anything concrete and are just basically basing their reads on gut.

I should point out that while I mention in my wiki that the gut is the best way to read people, that first and foremost, you HAVE to have the basics down first. THEN, on reads where you are deliberating a read on them, AND you have adequate reasoning on them as both Town AND Scum, use your gut, BUT your HEAD should come first. If you really don't have much evidence on a read one way or another, it should be a NULL read. That is my official stance on the matter.

But Lalendra is a Lean Town read based on them doing some weak Scum hunting and asking some preliminary questions. The fact that Lalendra is Sus of me in our most recent engagement makes me feel a bit better about the slot.

[LicketyQuickety]

I’m not.

I stated why I felt you were leaning more towards her being scum on that read there and you jumped to me saying I can read your mind. I tried to clarify what I meant. I’m going to again. I think the term I’m looking for is null-scum.

But like..........

I didn't imply it was a gut read.........

I implied (actually, I very explicitly stated) that I was on the fence about them.

I gave my overall thoughts on Lalendra first, and you can't tell me I didn't. I then basically stated that my head was telling me that they were Town and that my gut was telling me I was uneasy about them. My gut is STILL uneasy about them (and this is NOT the same as a Scum read) because they don't back up their arguments with anything concrete and are just basically basing their reads on gut.

I should point out that while I mention in my wiki that the gut is the best way to read people, that first and foremost, you HAVE to have the basics down first. THEN, on reads where you are deliberating a read on them, AND you have adequate reasoning on them as both Town AND Scum, use your gut, BUT your HEAD should come first. If you really don't have much evidence on a read one way or another, it should be a NULL read. That is my official stance on the matter.

But Lalendra is a Lean Town read based on them doing some weak Scum hunting and asking some preliminary questions. The fact that Lalendra is Sus of me in our most recent engagement makes me feel a bit better about the slot.

I think your first paragraph sums up the miscommunication. I read the uneasiness as thinking you’re probably subconsciously leaning scum on her because of previous interactions despite your head thinking that she might be town there. I don’t know how to explain it any other way.

Was she lean town at 627 because of the former? If so, could you show your work?

Where are you on Havo?

Don't know what to tell you. I looked at old info differently, so no new work to show.

Also this for your reading pleasure.

[LicketyQuickety]

Well what about after that?

Why? Its not like you are going to all the sudden Town read me for it.

[LicketyQuickety]

I’m trying to see and understand your thought process.

I don't believe this. I think you are either confbiasing me or are Scum.

I don't know when it clicked for me that lalendra is Town, but based on their most recent content, I am feeling better about that read.

[LicketyQuickety]

Lalendra is low priority for me right now.

[LicketyQuickety]

I feel like we’re just going to agree to disagree. I could soft reset I guess but I’m still bothered.

Where is everybody?

you realize you are arguing with me about a Town read right? Why do you care how I Town read people? Earlier you said you don't believe in giving your Townreads or something like that. Is that because you feel you can't defend them? So then you feel you can paint me in a corner because I can't defend a Town read? I am trying to makes sense out of why you care what my Town reads are and am drawing a blank besides that.

[LicketyQuickety]

Tocos, shadd, and Chill can get vigged for all I care.

[LicketyQuickety]

I feel like we’re just going to agree to disagree. I could soft reset I guess but I’m still bothered.

Where is everybody?

you realize you are arguing with me about a Town read right? Why do you care how I Town read people? Earlier you said you don't believe in giving your Townreads or something like that. Is that because you feel you can't defend them? So then you feel you can paint me in a corner because I can't defend a Town read? I am trying to makes sense out of why you care what my Town reads are and am drawing a blank besides that.

I don’t. I haven’t asked a single thing about your other town reads.

I’m asking you what changed your read on Lalendra since one of my issues with you was how you got your scum read on her. You said you looked at information differently. Where did you realize you were wrong and why? If I have an issue with how a scum read came to one conclusion, why would I not on another?

Well, here's the thing: you should prolly consider who is the person making the change of the read. I don't think this is the first time (not 100% on this) you have seen me do something like this, which is why I am worried about your slot. Also, I talked about doing this as Town in the link I provided.

And clearly, if you are worried about how I read one Town read, surely you can see how this could become something that happens again, correct?

[LicketyQuickety]

I feel like we’re just going to agree to disagree. I could soft reset I guess but I’m still bothered.

Where is everybody?

you realize you are arguing with me about a Town read right? Why do you care how I Town read people? Earlier you said you don't believe in giving your Townreads or something like that. Is that because you feel you can't defend them? So then you feel you can paint me in a corner because I can't defend a Town read? I am trying to makes sense out of why you care what my Town reads are and am drawing a blank besides that.

I don’t. I haven’t asked a single thing about your other town reads.

I’m asking you what changed your read on Lalendra since one of my issues with you was how you got your scum read on her. You said you looked at information differently. Where did you realize you were wrong and why? If I have an issue with how a scum read came to one conclusion, why would I not on another?

Well, here's the thing: you should prolly consider who is the person making the change of the read. I don't think this is the first time (not 100% on this) you have seen me do something like this, which is why I am worried about your slot. Also, I talked about doing this as Town in the link I provided.

And clearly, if you are worried about how I read one Town read, surely you can see how this could become something that happens again, correct?

I don’t think we’ve played many games together. All I’m recalling are two Opens, a mini that dreal hosted, and Large 205. All I can remember from the first two games is that I correctly town read you in both and I tunneled RC in one. You also got night killed in both of those games I believe. The mini I think I scum read you for your treatment towards RVS or claiming bodyguard and getting counterclaimed. The Large I scum read you for how you acted in regards to Carcalilly and you being out of character. I don’t remember anything about how you go about reads.

There was another Large where I was Scum that you are forgetting. Don't remember your read on me in that game. I will go back and check tho.

[LicketyQuickety]

viewtopic.php?p=9082793#p9082793
viewtopic.php?p=9082806#p9082806

I just searched LQ in your ISO and this is all I came up with. Must have been a Town read.

[LicketyQuickety]

viewtopic.php?p=8925677#p8925677
viewtopic.php?p=8932784#p8932784

I was universally Town read in this game

viewtopic.php?p=8980337#p8980337
viewtopic.php?p=8988037#p8988037

I was the D1 Lynch this game (Funny that you think this setup is fine with two BG when one is compulsive, but don't like 2 JOATs)

viewtopic.php?p=9415844#p9415844
viewtopic.php?p=9417807#p9417807

I was D1 Lynch again.

I am starting to sense a pattern here, Uzi.

[LicketyQuickety]

I didn’t. I don’t have it recorded either.

Uhh... you should prolly record the games that you play in if you want to keep a record of wins/losses.

[LicketyQuickety]

I didn’t. I don’t have it recorded either.

Uhh... you should prolly record the games that you play in if you want to keep a record of wins/losses.

I do. Click my wiki.

I don’t record setups I felt were too sided to one alignment or were bad. Or games where I was so far out of character that it would do no good to record since they wouldn’t be an accurate description on how I play.

Yeah, that's... not how it works.

[LicketyQuickety]

Uzi, you never guessed what the pattern is.

[LicketyQuickety]

All I got was that I misread you twice. I can’t get anymore because it would require me reading up until those linked posts.

I was NKed N1 ----> You Town read me
I was Lynched D1 -> You Scum read me
I was Lynched D1 -> You Scum read me

It makes it look as if all you ever do is read me how the majority of players are reading me

[LicketyQuickety]

What was the other game you correctly read me?

[LicketyQuickety]

The one where you hydra’d with Doggo!

Pretty sure that doesn't count

[LicketyQuickety]

Why wouldn’t it? Because of Doggo?

I take both heads into account when I read hydras.

Because I was hardly involved in that game. I think I went AFK or something. Plus, I was playing more "behind the scenes" anyways.

[LicketyQuickety]

Where are you even going with this again?

It seems like you say I follow the herd in regards to you but that’s not the case in any of the games you linked I’m sure.

Actually, it totally is.

And we were universally Town read in the hydra game as well.

[LicketyQuickety]

This meta war between LUV and LQ is killing me but there's nothing else to talk about until we get mod back

I agree. Its p dumb.

[LicketyQuickety]

It is, but I'm pretty sure there are people who haven't posted who need prods and we need more than just those who have been active for the last 5 pages to lynch.

that's fair yeah

These two prolly not SvS.

[LicketyQuickety]

Okay as of right now I have:

Mumble(6): Lalendra, Errantparabola, Tchill13, Boonskiies, Havo, Sergtacos (L-1)
LicketyQuickety(3): Thestatusquo, Egg, Lil Uzi Vert, (L-4)
Thestatusquo(1): schadd_
Havo(1): acidphoenix
Sergtacos(1): LicketyQuickety

Nobody(1): Mumble

It would be super great if everyone not on the mumble wagon could explain why they are voting the way they are because it would be super chill to hammer and at best kill scum, at least have something to go on for D2.

I'd rather lynch tocos for doing literally nothing all game long.

[LicketyQuickety]

I invested too much energy into this game if it doesn't continue. Lame. Has anyone PMed the list mod yet?

[LicketyQuickety]

im behind by more than I realized. Need to sleep tonight because I've got to be up in the morning. Tomorrow I'll be at the Yankees game so that leaves Wednesday as my next opportunity to catch up.

Hopefully we can lynch tocos by then.

[LicketyQuickety]

I invested too much energy into this game if it doesn't continue. Lame. Has anyone PMed the list mod yet?

I have and we should be getting a resolution shortly. In any case-- I think Havo is a better wagon than Mumbles.

Thank. YOU!!!

[LicketyQuickety]

I invested too much energy into this game if it doesn't continue. Lame. Has anyone PMed the list mod yet?

I have and we should be getting a resolution shortly. In any case-- I think Havo is a better wagon than Mumbles.

I think tocos is a better wagon than Havo.

[LicketyQuickety]

FUCKING LYNCH HIM!!!!!

You're one to talk, buddy.