Open 698: Stack the Deck (GAME OVER)

[Mulch]

How about the vig shoots who he wants. Why are we trying to limit the vigilante? They know themslves to be confirmed town, and all this stuff is making me paranoid of you comm.

To me:

Scum: Chip, Iron
Semi Scum: Luca, Assemble, Unah


These are my reads.

EBWOP

[Luca Blight]

How about the vig shoots who he wants. Why are we trying to limit the vigilante? They know themslves to be confirmed scum, and all this stuff is making me paranoid of you comm.

To me:

Scum: Chip, Iron
Semi Scum: Luca, Assemble, Unah


These are my reads.

I agree with this. (although I believe you meant confirmed Town, not scum?)

And I'm not sure if CK isn't reading my posts or is simply ignoring them. He's dictating who to lynch and shoot but not actually interacting with anyone in the thread which is bemusing.

[Chip Butty]

I see no town motiviation for post 941

It was a response to Una's 935, in case he is town, and a general reminder that you take pride in your scumtone.

[UnaBombaH]

How confident were you on Mulch before 934? This seems like quite a fast read-flip on top of an oddly specific reachout.

You misunderstood me: I haven't changed my read on mulch yet.
It says above "IF I were to accept" mulch as town, THEN the following apply.
I still think my earlier list is more likely.

[UnaBombaH]

so una, you're basically saying i'm scum and mulch is town?

are you confident mulch vs me was scum vs town? or are you just saying that to talk?

i'm trying to understand what you feel confident about because it sounds like a load of bullshit coming out of you.

Same as above.
I think that one post was town!mulch, but it takes more than one to turn my read completely around.

But to put it simply: yes, I think one of you and mulch might be scum, but not both.

[Alchemist21]

How confident were you on Mulch before 934? This seems like quite a fast read-flip on top of an oddly specific reachout.

You misunderstood me: I haven't changed my read on mulch yet.
It says above "IF I were to accept" mulch as town, THEN the following apply.
I still think my earlier list is more likely.

This is what you said:

This feels like town!mulch, as far as I am concerned.

If I were to accept that as a fact:

Realeo is the lockedest of Townies ( ), Grapes right behind him.
I would have to still keep valuing between scum!Comm and scum!Alch. I can't shake the feeling there's one scum there, and since mulch doesn't scumread either, I don't have any help there.
Assemble gains more scum-points since mulch agrees there.
Chip and Iron are the ones I'm most conflicted on already, but I don't think they are necessarily scum for pushing me, but ONE OF THEM WOULD HAVE TO BE, if all of the above apply.
Unless I have locked Luca as town too early?

Although I townread this post from mulch, I flat out disagree with few of his reads.
I wanted his opinion and "rating" of Alch because I really need to sort that slot.

You straight-up said you were Townreading that post. Don't backtrack and say it was all just you playing around with a hypothetical, because it was based in you supposedly Townreading Mulch.

[Alchemist21]

You also still have not explained why you reached out to Mulch specifically.

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE:

Let me put forth a theory. Alchemist, Realeo and I are spared to create a "town bloc". Perhaps there is someone else who was trying to enter the bloc. Now this would actually lead me to look at Alchemist in him wanting to get payback for our last game together. Plus this game he doesn't quite seem as involved or in depth as he was in our last two games together where he was town both times.

We have plenty of time to still work some things out, but I'm still comfortable with Chip and Iron being in the pool. Just questioning whether to go through with lynching Una and aiming for grapes or Luca for now.

But I think Alchemist, Realeo and Mulch are all off the table today. That at least lowers the pool to 6 right now. If I put Iron and Chip off the table and maybe even just say Una is the third for the pool and leave those 3 up to the vig to shoot. Then we lynch into Assemble/Luca/grapes. Either way, with 6 main suspects on today's agenda, I think if we do 3 in the lynch pool and 3 in the vig pool. it'd be better for us.

Does anyone disagree with that?

If not, then the question is, who should we leave to the vig to decide in and who should we leave for the town to decide in.

I disagree with moving Una to the vig pool instead of outright lynching him. I'm tired right now and can't put 100% of my mental focus on this plan, but beyond what I just said I don't see a problem with it.

[ironstove]

Yea, I don't town read una, still not sure about the slot. I haven't seen anything that pings me as town.

[Mulch]

Spoiler: Aggresive town mulch

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=72708
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=72397
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=72407

Just the ones I found at a first glance. Can also link scum games I"m not aggresive, if you need

[Realeo]

Where is ironstove when I'm hoping for him to grill una?

[grapes]

Massive townread on Comm ATM.

Why?

[grapes]

Feeling fairly confident that Realeo is town, and CB vs mulch doesn't feel like S/S..so which is scum?

I dunno I might've found this thought process forgivable but I'm not sure how you arrived at a scumread on mulch at all on these pages and you're sorta just defaulting to one of them being scum. In other words why discount tvt altogether here?

[grapes]

@mulch: I know I'm the one on the chopping block, so it might feel weird for me to question anyone, but are you around atm?
If you are, can you give me some insight on how you see the game right now?
Also: is it possible for you to see WHY someone might scumread you by association/PoE?
And finally: how highly do you value Alchemists townplay?

If you could answer any or all of these, I would appreciate it a lot!

And I don't really like any of these questions.

First one is way too general.
Second one is outright scummy I think.
Third ones relevance is questionable.

@Una, can you walk me through why you asked these questions and how they helped you get a better read on mulch?

[grapes]

I see no town motiviation for post 941

When I spat with people I do this a lot too.

I hold them to a higher standard and shine a light on every post I possibly can to find scummy.

Truth of it is that town and scum aren't always gonna make good posts every single time.

But my problem with this is that there is plausible town motive to chip's post; he thinks you're scum and doesn't want you getting overlooked by people who might have a hard time reading you; which to my memory at least a few people have said that's exactly their case. Heck, I'm gonna admit right now that I'm having a hard time reading you and whether this is you as town letting the omgus fuel your push and cloud your judgment or your scum picking at everything chip is saying.

And I also just really don't think chip is scum; so my suggestion is we have a dialogue about our reads there and see what shakes loose.

[grapes]

And I'm not sure if CK isn't reading my posts or is simply ignoring them. He's dictating who to lynch and shoot but not actually interacting with anyone in the thread which is bemusing.

I'm happy to hear I'm not the only person getting glossed over.


I'm not sure it makes all that much sense to try and dictate the vig shot N2 before you've seen the flip D2 yet, either.

[ironstove]

I'll read through those games later, mulch.

[Chip Butty]

And I'm not sure if CK isn't reading my posts or is simply ignoring them. He's dictating who to lynch and shoot but not actually interacting with anyone in the thread which is bemusing.

I'm happy to hear I'm not the only person getting glossed over.


I'm not sure it makes all that much sense to try and dictate the vig shot N2 before you've seen the flip D2 yet, either.

CK definitely seems hung up on his pools and is saying much else.

And maybe a better way would be if we each just nominate a pool of three. That way everyone who wants input has a proper say.

My vig-pool would include CK himself. Mulch I'll think about more after going through the linked games. Maybe Alch as a bit of a wildcard...

I think we're maybe being led down the garden path a bit with all the focus on the DW wagon. It was a pretty easy wagon for town to jump on to, once they thought it might happen. Yes there was probably at least one scum on it, but I'm pretty sure there was scum off it too.

[Chip Butty]

First para: 'is NOT saying much else.'^

[Assemblerotws]

Massive townread on Comm ATM.

Why?

He's doing the same things he did in 696, for starters.

[Realeo]

Nah. That is different context.

He got insta town there because the chance of bussing is virtually zero.

Making vig pool is basically an elaborate way of expressing read list.

[UnaBombaH]

OK, have a while to post again.

You straight-up said you were Townreading that post. Don't backtrack and say it was all just you playing around with a hypothetical, because it was based in you supposedly Townreading Mulch.

I wasn't backtracking on anything..?
I said "If I were to accept" = I'm not automatically/fully accepting mulch as town, I just think his response to me was genuine.
I don't think it's out of his scum-plays range to produce town-flavored posts here and there as scum, but that specific post FELT genuine.
So I made a hypothetical list with him as town, because I wanted to clear my thoughts on how it would affect my own readslist.
Notice how I say in the end of that same post "Although I townread

this post

from mulch,

I flat out disagree with few of his reads.

"

I feel like Alch is refusing to give me a fair assessment, and is only sticking to his current read.
Even though it can be stubborn NAI, I dislike it anyway.

[UnaBombaH]

You also still have not explained why you reached out to Mulch specifically.

I wanted his opinion and "rating" of Alch because I really need to sort that slot.

I trust his reads, and in the scenario where he is scum, he risks exposing himself if he is forced to give a read.

I disagree with moving Una to the vig pool instead of outright lynching him.

..because you have realized I will not be vigged? I shouldn't be the lynch, period.

[UnaBombaH]

Where is ironstove when I'm hoping for him to grill una?

I think people missed this..!

[UnaBombaH]

@mulch: I know I'm the one on the chopping block, so it might feel weird for me to question anyone, but are you around atm?

If you are, can you give me some insight on how you see the game right now?

Also: is it possible for you to see WHY someone might scumread you by association/PoE?

And finally: how highly do you value Alchemists townplay?

If you could answer any or all of these, I would appreciate it a lot!

And I don't really like any of these questions.

First one is way too general.

Second one is outright scummy I think.

Third ones relevance is questionable.

@Una, can you walk me through why you asked these questions and how they helped you get a better read on mulch?

This was to prompt his readlist (got it btw). But this was also just a "warm-up" question to get to the other two.

This was to force him to talk about himself. Notice how he answered:

I can see why someone would scumread me, because everyone is always paranoid of me. I'm good scum so people always think I'm scum when I'm town because they want to have the accomplishment of beating someone good at scum. So through that and PoE, yeah I can see. I do not see how someone can scumread me through association because every single person pushed one of the top 2 wagons so there is no validity to scumreading someone for that. ANd I definitely don't see the bullshit reasons Iron and Chip are scumreading me for.

He answered with a strong and confident tone. He took the perspective of "of course I am obv.town, but if I reeally stretch, I can see WHY others think I could be scum."

And then he turned that same answer into an attack towards Iron and Chip (even though I didn't ask about them specifically).

Well, this is an "questionary technique" I use pretty much daily at my work too. Again, lets see how he answered:

I think Alch is town

, but I don't know how much I value his townplay . I don't think I've ever played with him as town?

Notice how he states right in the beginning that he thinks Alch is town in this specific game. My question could've very well been interpreted solely as "what is your assessment of his skill-level as town IN GENERAL?"
So for whatever reason he feels the need to give me two additional comments - he doesn't know how good Alch's towngame is, and he doesn't think he has played with town!Alch.

You guys just LOVE to discredit and scumread my every post, but I do my own thing - whether it works or not.
These specific answers from mulch made me think he wrote genuinely - but he could genuinely dislike being scumread as either alignment.
He felt the need to be more specific on Alch's alignment this game (even if I didn't ask exactly for that!), but chose NOT to analyze his reads or position in this exact game (which I originally expected).
Stuff like that.