Mini Normal 1952: Dragon's Dance [OVER - PERFECT SCUM WIN]

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ... That doesn't line up with your reaction to havo mentioning a wagon on you. You explain there's wagoning for pressure and wagoning to lynch. So if havo mentioned a wagon on you why did you immediately assume that it wasn't to pressure you but to Lynch you?

Because its based on the idea that there is a difference between a wagon vote and a lynch vote. I don't expect people to understand. Its just really frustrating having this happen all the time.

Didn't answer my question. If you believe there's 2 different types of wagons why did you assume havo wanted a wagon to Lynch you instead of to pressure you?

Well, it doesn't really matter. Havo used the word wagon and never implied they were voting to lynch. I said he was implying they were voting to lynch. Their response when I said those are bad reasons to lynch someone he said people get lynched for bad reasons all the time. I think that is at the least a poor response if not incredibly Scummy.

[Lalendra]

acid can you please shift your vote to LQ or mumble? kthx

[acidphoenix]

no

[LicketyQuickety]

LQ - Mumbles - Acid Scum Team?

This is looking better and better.

I mean, this is Pre-Flip and I shouldn't have to explain why Pre-Flip is a bad idea.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, Uzi sucks at reading me so I would take his opinion of me with a grain of salt.

[Egg]

But it would mean something if he wasn't V/LA. You are being results oriented and not process oriented.

Except...that...he IS on V/LA...? He told us this. Unless you think he's lying, I don't see the point in you saying this.

Well he left just as the thread was getting hot. Again, you can't look at what happened later after I said what I said, you have to consider what the context was at the time. And its not like he really did much, lets be honest here.

Didn't he "leave" for like 30 minutes? I've been leaving for more like 20 hours at a time. Why aren't you after me for "avoiding the thread"?

How? They were not indicating how they were reading people at all because of that. At least that is what it looks like to me.

The way he's going about it feels like he's attempting to sort the people who step up to play his game.

Make a damn stance and man up. There is nothing wrong with my case on him.

I don't believe that there is anything wrong with your case, no. Like I said, the biggest things I see in you vs havo are associative, so I'm gonna reserve judgement on those interactions. I'm not town reading Havo if that's what you are after.

Not really considering I didn't really want to cause a pile on Boon environment at the beginning of the game. That is how quick lunches happen and I try to avoid those because I have seen them happen in the past. I've talked to tsq in sitechat a bit - enough to know what he is like. And it was demonstrated that he's like a dog that doesn't let go of the rope so that's more reason to not want quick pressure on someone early from someone like him. Plus that was done at the beginning of the game when there is like nothing to go off of. Plus all it shows is that I am inconsistent, not that I am Scum.

No, the fact that you see the value in reaction tests shows that as town you'd want to let his play out. As scum, maybe you are worried about how your partners will react to it which isn't just inconsistency. It's possible scum motivation. The whole avoiding a quick lynch thing is a big change from the stupidity you first claimed too.

_______________

intentionally difficult? lmao if thats not a copout idk what is.

As someone who is scumreading Lickety, I don't think that's a copout. That format is a pain in the ass to even read. Responding to it is like...just holy shit, no.

________________

I'd rather lynch mumble hence my voting being there.

then fucking put your money where your mouth is and vote me.

Uhhh....what?

_______________

He already did, which was kind of what cemented the scumread for me.

So you see self votes as scummy? Can you explain why?

_______________

LQ - Mumbles - Acid Scum Team?

I'd be surprised if both lead wagons on Day 1 were on scum, but I guess them pushing you as a counterwagon is something I can't say is a crazy thought. Why is Acid on your list though? This is the first time I can recall you mentioning a scum read on him unless you count your questioning of his vote on Shea. Was that your only issue with him or is there more to it than that? There's also this:

I mean, this is Pre-Flip and I shouldn't have to explain why Pre-Flip is a bad idea

_______________

Shea, be honest with me here. Was that Mumble vote a policy or pressure vote or do you really think Mumble is scum for "staged" interactions with taco and a defeatist attitude from a newer player who got run up early in a game?

______________

I would like to hear thoughts on the last few pages from the players who haven’t posted since before LQ attacked me.

Before there’s a lynch.

Especially EPs thoughts.

Why especially EP?

________________

Page 21 and I finally have something resembling a read on tchill. I like his posting on that page as town.

Ok, finally caught up again...

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Also, Uzi sucks at reading me so I would take his opinion of me with a grain of salt.

Huh? When did I bring up your meta and why are you using it to discredit me?

[Sergtacos]

Also, Uzi sucks at reading me so I would take his opinion of me with a grain of salt.

Huh? When did I bring up your meta and why are you using it to discredit me?

I don't like this question. sounds very scummy. VOTE: Uzi Vert

[LicketyQuickety]

But it would mean something if he wasn't V/LA. You are being results oriented and not process oriented.

Except...that...he IS on V/LA...? He told us this. Unless you think he's lying, I don't see the point in you saying this.

Because what you are NOT thinking is "what if he DIDN'T go on V/LA." That is what I am talking about. I made the comment before he went on V/LA so I had no way of knowing if he was going to go on V/LA or not, hence why I made a play that makes a point if it turns out he WAS avoiding the thread. This is what I am talking about when I say you are being results oriented over process oriented - because you fail to connect the dots.

Well he left just as the thread was getting hot. Again, you can't look at what happened later after I said what I said, you have to consider what the context was at the time. And its not like he really did much, lets be honest here.

Didn't he "leave" for like 30 minutes? I've been leaving for more like 20 hours at a time. Why aren't you after me for "avoiding the thread"?

Because you have left the thread for 20 hours consistently. Mumble has done this thing where he has been engaging in the thread and then suddenly disappears without any reason given for why they are suddenly not there. I look at patterns of behavior, maybe you don't.

How? They were not indicating how they were reading people at all because of that. At least that is what it looks like to me.

The way he's going about it feels like he's attempting to sort the people who step up to play his game.

That's weird because I haven't seen Acid really make any stances during the time he was supposedly doing this.

Make a damn stance and man up. There is nothing wrong with my case on him.

I don't believe that there is anything wrong with your case, no. Like I said, the biggest things I see in you vs havo are associative, so I'm gonna reserve judgement on those interactions. I'm not town reading Havo if that's what you are after.

If by associative you mean its pretty likely we are not SvS, then I think that should be pretty obvious at this point. I don't like you just saying "well if one flips Town the other is Scum" and I shouldn't have to explain why.

Not really considering I didn't really want to cause a pile on Boon environment at the beginning of the game. That is how quick lunches happen and I try to avoid those because I have seen them happen in the past. I've talked to tsq in sitechat a bit - enough to know what he is like. And it was demonstrated that he's like a dog that doesn't let go of the rope so that's more reason to not want quick pressure on someone early from someone like him. Plus that was done at the beginning of the game when there is like nothing to go off of. Plus all it shows is that I am inconsistent, not that I am Scum.

No, the fact that you see the value in reaction tests shows that as town you'd want to let his play out. As scum, maybe you are worried about how your partners will react to it which isn't just inconsistency. It's possible scum motivation. The whole avoiding a quick lynch thing is a big change from the stupidity you first claimed too.

I think you are dumbing it down to be less complicated than it really is.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, Uzi sucks at reading me so I would take his opinion of me with a grain of salt.

Huh? When did I bring up your meta and why are you using it to discredit me?

You DIDN'T bring up my meta. That is my whole point. I am a player that requires meta on me to correctly read as Town.

[acidphoenix]

..lol

also i locktowned you like fiftythousand times over with zero meta

[LicketyQuickety]

..lol

also i locktowned you like fiftythousand times over with zero meta

Yeah, every once in awhile there will be a person or game that reads me Town. It happens sometimes, but not as often as I would like. I think my Town game is on point, but most people either don't understand me or don't bother to even try to, which is worse.

[acidphoenix]

it helped

just a little

that your readslist was basically (usually literally) the same as mine for the entirety of the game q.q

[LicketyQuickety]

I feel like the reason I typically post so much is because I have to reply to people so often because they don't understand where I am coming from.

[Egg]

Lickety,

I made the comment before he went on V/LA

*checks* ... oh. Well why didn't you just say that? lol

Because you have left the thread for 20 hours consistently.Mumble has done this thing where he has been engaging in the thread and then suddenly disappears without any reason given for why they are suddenly not there.

Uhhh...

Sorry for real-life stuff?

His reason is the same as mine.

That's weird because I haven't seen Acid really make any stances during the time he was supposedly doing this.

What do you think he was doing if not trying to sort people?

If by associative you mean its pretty likely we are not SvS, then I think that should be pretty obvious at this point. I don't like you just saying "well if one flips Town the other is Scum" and I shouldn't have to explain why.

Why should it be obvious you aren't both scum? I find it interesting that you'd say that. I agree with you on the second one though.

I think you are dumbing it down to be less complicated than it really is.

And I think that these two posts don't make sense as answering the same question (why you outted boon's post as a possible reaction test):

Stupidity, mostly. Sometimes it works in my favor tho. Like when I say stuff like that it can end RVS in a heartbeat.

I didn't really want to cause a pile on Boon environment at the beginning of the game. That is how quick lunches happen and I try to avoid those because I have seen them happen in the past

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Also, Uzi sucks at reading me so I would take his opinion of me with a grain of salt.

Huh? When did I bring up your meta and why are you using it to discredit me?

You DIDN'T bring up my meta. That is my whole point. I am a player that requires meta on me to correctly read as Town.

I don’t believe that to be true but even if it was, I’d still be left confused.

You just claimed I can’t read you. Was your discrediting apparently to point out that I didn’t bring it up? If you believe what you claimed, wouldn’t you also believe I don’t have a good enough understanding of your meta to factor it into my read on you here?

[Thestatusquo]

I think its pretty clear my vote on mumble was pressure.

I do not think hes town, though. It's not from any one thing, but its a culmination of things. But, again obviously, I think LQ is more likely to be scum.

1) He's disengaged with the game, and the kind of defeatism I see from him which leads to self voting and things like "come on, just lynch me already" are things I think are way more common from scum players than town players. Like, do new town players do stuff like this? Yes. But I see this as a "tactic" from new scum players to try to emotionally talk people out of their lynch more than anyone else in the game.

2) I did not like his and serg's interaction. It felt like staged distancing to me. None of it felt genuine, and none of it was similar to how either of them have interacted with anyone else in the game. It's notable, if nothing else.

3) If you read my article on arguing, one of the things that most causes me to think someone is scum when looking at their arguments is a refusal to concede points and arguing to "score points" instead of arrive at conclusions. Mumble fits this profile to a tee. His response to people questioning him is to attack them and to say that "no one is reading the things [he] posts." when, if you go look at the things he posts, none of them remotely relate to the arguments he's having.

Could he just be terrible or not know what he's doing? Sure, but his actions don't feel random to me. If you look at someone like tchill, who I am town reading pretty hard despite also erratic behavior, his actions seem genuinely uninformed. They don't seem to have a concrete purpose. Mumble on the other hand seems to know exactly what he's doing, to me.

[LicketyQuickety]

Lickety,

I made the comment before he went on V/LA

*checks* ... oh. Well why didn't you just say that? lol

Because that is my biggest vice in this game in people not understanding me - I assume people are paying attention to what I am actually doing much more than they actually are. In short, I assumed you knew that already.

Because you have left the thread for 20 hours consistently.Mumble has done this thing where he has been engaging in the thread and then suddenly disappears without any reason given for why they are suddenly not there.

Uhhh...

Sorry for real-life stuff?

His reason is the same as mine.

Yeah, but I think (not as sure on this one) that its basically the same thing again - that he said he had real life shit after I mentioned him disappearing.

That's weird because I haven't seen Acid really make any stances during the time he was supposedly doing this.

What do you think he was doing if not trying to sort people?

Trying to Look like he was trying to sort people. I am completely undecided on Acid atm. Still trying to figure them out tbh. I throw out a lot of interpretations of things that only work with certain conditions. I am kinda just figuring out I do this now. This game has been an eye opener of sorts. Plus I just got done with a therapist appointment and we talked about people not understanding me so some of the pieces are coming together.

If by associative you mean its pretty likely we are not SvS, then I think that should be pretty obvious at this point. I don't like you just saying "well if one flips Town the other is Scum" and I shouldn't have to explain why.

Why should it be obvious you aren't both scum? I find it interesting that you'd say that. I agree with you on the second one though.

Because when I am looking for instances where people are not SvS I look for intent and I just assume people have come to the same kind of idea that I have about it.

I think you are dumbing it down to be less complicated than it really is.

And I think that these two posts don't make sense as answering the same question (why you outted boon's post as a possible reaction test):

Stupidity, mostly. Sometimes it works in my favor tho. Like when I say stuff like that it can end RVS in a heartbeat.

I didn't really want to cause a pile on Boon environment at the beginning of the game. That is how quick lunches happen and I try to avoid those because I have seen them happen in the past

Yeah, cuz I realized I prolly should have just let what boon did run its course right after it was brought up by EP(?). In the second quote I just give the reason for why I did it in the first place.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, Uzi sucks at reading me so I would take his opinion of me with a grain of salt.

Huh? When did I bring up your meta and why are you using it to discredit me?

You DIDN'T bring up my meta. That is my whole point. I am a player that requires meta on me to correctly read as Town.

I don’t believe that to be true but even if it was, I’d still be left confused.

You just claimed I can’t read you. Was your discrediting apparently to point out that I didn’t bring it up? If you believe what you claimed, wouldn’t you also believe I don’t have a good enough understanding of your meta to factor it into my read on you here?

Because you are a square and you play like a square. You don't actually try to understand what I say a lot of the time. Instead what you see is something that doesn't make sense so you think its Scummy, when, when its coming from me, its usually not Scummy.

[Tchill13]

TSQ what do you mean by not having concrete purpose? Are you accusing me of fluff? I don't see why I wouldn't be able to get reads off my own interactions.

[LicketyQuickety]

I think its pretty clear my vote on mumble was pressure.

I do not think hes town, though. It's not from any one thing, but its a culmination of things. But, again obviously, I think LQ is more likely to be scum.

1) He's disengaged with the game, and the kind of defeatism I see from him which leads to self voting and things like "come on, just lynch me already" are things I think are way more common from scum players than town players. Like, do new town players do stuff like this? Yes. But I see this as a "tactic" from new scum players to try to emotionally talk people out of their lynch more than anyone else in the game.

2) I did not like his and serg's interaction. It felt like staged distancing to me. None of it felt genuine, and none of it was similar to how either of them have interacted with anyone else in the game. It's notable, if nothing else.

3) If you read my article on arguing, one of the things that most causes me to think someone is scum when looking at their arguments is a refusal to concede points and arguing to "score points" instead of arrive at conclusions. Mumble fits this profile to a tee. His response to people questioning him is to attack them and to say that "no one is reading the things [he] posts." when, if you go look at the things he posts, none of them remotely relate to the arguments he's having.

Could he just be terrible or not know what he's doing? Sure, but his actions don't feel random to me. If you look at someone like tchill, who I am town reading pretty hard despite also erratic behavior, his actions seem genuinely uninformed. They don't seem to have a concrete purpose. Mumble on the other hand seems to know exactly what he's doing, to me.

1.) Not AI
2.) Pre-Flip
3.) This has more to do with personality than an actual tell IMO. Like some people play that way all the time. Also, if you look at my meta I am actually more like that as Town than Scum.

[Tchill13]

I've poked LQ enough and I'm still not comfortable claiming he's town. I'm the one that's stated mumble could Fall into lurker scum. I've tried to get a little more pressure on acid but that didn't go anywhere. I'm pretty sure havo is town here based off of familiarity. Could be scum but that'll be easier to sort in the later day phases. Egg and errant seem town enough. The exchange between havo and uzi made me feel better about them. So this idea of no concrete thoughts is bogus.

[Lil Uzi Vert]

Also, Uzi sucks at reading me so I would take his opinion of me with a grain of salt.

Huh? When did I bring up your meta and why are you using it to discredit me?

You DIDN'T bring up my meta. That is my whole point. I am a player that requires meta on me to correctly read as Town.

I don’t believe that to be true but even if it was, I’d still be left confused.

You just claimed I can’t read you. Was your discrediting apparently to point out that I didn’t bring it up? If you believe what you claimed, wouldn’t you also believe I don’t have a good enough understanding of your meta to factor it into my read on you here?

Because you are a square and you play like a square. You don't actually try to understand what I say a lot of the time. Instead what you see is something that doesn't make sense so you think its Scummy, when, when its coming from me, its usually not Scummy.

I’ve never been told I play in a boring way so that’s a first.

It is a two-way street my man. I explained why I found issue with a lot of your pushing on Havo and Lalendra. I’ve attempted to understand how you can have you conclusions on them as well. You’ve left me each time thinking that you’re just scum reaching.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, Uzi sucks at reading me so I would take his opinion of me with a grain of salt.

Huh? When did I bring up your meta and why are you using it to discredit me?

You DIDN'T bring up my meta. That is my whole point. I am a player that requires meta on me to correctly read as Town.

I don’t believe that to be true but even if it was, I’d still be left confused.

You just claimed I can’t read you. Was your discrediting apparently to point out that I didn’t bring it up? If you believe what you claimed, wouldn’t you also believe I don’t have a good enough understanding of your meta to factor it into my read on you here?

Because you are a square and you play like a square. You don't actually try to understand what I say a lot of the time. Instead what you see is something that doesn't make sense so you think its Scummy, when, when its coming from me, its usually not Scummy.

I’ve never been told I play in a boring way so that’s a first.

It is a two-way street my man. I explained why I found issue with a lot of your pushing on Havo and Lalendra. I’ve attempted to understand how you can have you conclusions on them as well. You’ve left me each time thinking that you’re just scum reaching.

I rest my case.

[LicketyQuickety]

Also, I am pretty sure Town wins this game.