Open 698: Stack the Deck (GAME OVER)

[Alchemist21]

FIRST

Dammit!

VOTE: Realeo

[Alchemist21]

FIRST

Dammit!

VOTE: Realeo

VOTE: Alchemist - He's gotta be scum one of these games. He's not going to be town every game!!!

If I ever do roll scum in a game with you I'll have to make sure to pay you back for Micro 725.

[Alchemist21]

Grapes is having too many reads too fast.

Oh shit, I didn't recognize you with that avatar. How you been man?

Grapes you seem easily pleased, if you don't mind me saying.

Anything you're not liking to far?

And the game is Suikoden II - nostalgia from my childhood.

Ah. Have only heard good things and actually plan to play at least Suikoden 1 one of these days, it's just my backlog is a million miles long at this point you know how it is. :p

And surprisingly no so far the only things I've found worth mentioning have been subtle townvibes. If I had to try and solve the game right this moment or force a scumread I'd say smoothblue's rvs vote was SO null that it has the possibility of being scummy? But that's again something probably better left in my head because I don't know for certain a lot of you would even understand where I'm coming from there.

VOTE: Grapes

Hello.

Hi there. Thoughts so far?

Grapes is having too many reads too fast.

Now hang on a minute let's get something straight here.

I am in a constant state of solving; I always have reads. The strength of those reads are dependent on how much information is out there, in other words for page 2, if the game were to end right now I'd probably go

Luca/IceGuy/Commknight/UnaBombaH/Assemblerotws

Realeo/Alchemist/Duckworth/Chip Buddy/ironstove

SmoothBlue/GameNburger/Riddleton

I think those reads are probably kinda close maybe for what I've got to go on here? Might be wrong on a townread but don't really think more than one; the bottom two brackets are a lot more subject to change because like I said most of you have been kinda playing slow/close to your chest so far, which is fine, we have a couple weeks here and not everyone plays the way that I do.

But I am gonna get something going here;
VOTE: Riddleton

I think that it's fair for someone who hasn't played with me before to find it weird that I'd have those thoughts already; Luca for example came at that in a town way.

Difference being he asked if I had any scumvibes as well; while our friend Riddleton makes his entrance to the game a slightly modified echo of that giving me almost zero benefit of the doubt. But also while not putting a vote down.

Do you normally go into lengthy explanations for everything? This looks like a serious overreaction to 36. The hypersensitivity here and in following posts is not sitting well with me.

OK, I need a new vote.
Luca likes Suikoden, so I can't vote there anymore...

VOTE: Duckworth

Serious vote.

You've got a serious bare vote on a guy who hasn't confirmed yet?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Unabombah

Duckworth had just made a post right before this one that you quoted. :thisguy:

VOTE: grapes

[Alchemist21]

EBWOP: *the following post

[Alchemist21]

Do you normally go into lengthy explanations for everything?

I'm not one to normally do anything; I'll get long winded if I feel like it's warranted/I'm bored. Sometimes I wont.

At any rate I'm not sure "oversensitive" is the buzzword you're looking for here. Unless you're trying to say that every reaction made to something with a lot words attached is "hypersensitive" I'd like to know what about my response there seemed sensitive, like I'd appreciate a little more nuance than what you're putting down here.

Do you normally ask people for self-meta when you vote for them?
And what did you think of my stuff of riddleton?

Nobody voted you or even said you were scummy, yet you felt the need to go into a detailed defense of your actions. To me that makes it seem like you're already nervous about people finding you scummy.

I do ask for self-meta if it can show the behavior is something that's NAI.

Your stuff on riddleton is part of the oversensitive reaction - you OMGUS him for what was a minor poke at worst.

[Alchemist21]

It's not so much that I'm worried about people saying I'm scummy but people disregarding my reads. I happen to think they're important because, hey, they're mine and like most people I'm selfish like that.

Fair enough. But also to be fair, half your reads at that point had no reasoning to them at all which is going to make them easy to disregard.

How can you say that nobody was saying I was scummy but also think that I'm omgusing riddleton?

Because

you

were taking it that way and reacted in OMGUS fashion.

[Alchemist21]

Fair enough. But also to be fair, half your reads at that point had no reasoning to them at all which is going to make them easy to disregard.

Uh... Aren't you curious why he have that reads? In another word, why is your instinct is to vote rather to quiz him?

You obviously don't understand why I'm voting him. And I'm telling him if you want the reads to be taken seriously, then back them up. That's especially true when the game just started.

Grapes is having too many reads too fast.

What other interpretations of this post could someone possibly have?

Like you're calling it a "minor poke" when he's not "poking" me at all he's calling me scum. lol
A poke would be a question.
You know that thing town do when they don't understand a thing.


A big part of my thoughts here that you're missing or intentionally leaving out is that this isn't even an original thought.
Which I think makes it more scummy; your only post is to sheep a thought but flatten it out into blank fos.

The other interpretation is that you're reads are ill-conceived because they're rushed out. Not necessarily AI. If he was calling you scum he would have voted you. He could have been withholding a read on you one way or the other until seeing your reaction to 36.
Though you're right that I keep forgetting about the part of your issue being that you think it's not an original thought. Even so I just don't see the malice in riddleton's post that you're claiming is there. I think a vote would have been in that post if he was actually trying to take the idea and use it against you.

P.S. I was using the term "poke" to mean a minor aggression, not as in to poke around and investigate.

[Alchemist21]

As a side note, Riddleton is not an official member of this game, so any votes on him/her are null and void. Regarding the situation, I'm not sure what exactly I can do, or how far I can go with my power as the moderator.

Oh my fucking god.

And we're sure this wasn't an alt slip?

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE:

The end of 117 looks Towny to me. Knowing that Riddleton was Duckworth it does kind of invalidate one of my points, and I have to admit that it probably was a scumread on grapes now, so there's that too.

[Alchemist21]

OK, I need a new vote.
Luca likes Suikoden, so I can't vote there anymore...

VOTE: Duckworth

Serious vote.

You've got a serious bare vote on a guy who hasn't confirmed yet?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Unabombah

This deserves more attention. That naked vote is ew.

"In post 76, Chip Butty"]

Were you being serious here? I took this as RVS. I mean, crumbing mafia by using capitals is paleo. I'm pretty sure nobody does that now.

Of course I wasn't. Releo already pointed it out. I'm making fun of him.

UNVOTE:

Also....

@Alch

Error 404: Image not found.

[Alchemist21]

@Mod, can you fix the quote tags please?

Fixed. I think...

[Alchemist21]

I don't see the case Luca's making about Ice. I see it as Town who's not looking to confbias and tunnel, and him stating what's making him less confident in the read seems like it's a more honest vote than one that's pushing an agenda.

[Alchemist21]

Realeo what are you current reads?

[Alchemist21]

Hi

I’ll read up by tonight

VOTE: unabombah

Why?

[Alchemist21]

No no no no no no no it was an https link this is bullshit

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: gamenburger

@grapes

- why did you have my predecessor as scum early game?

Gonna need reasons here too.

[Alchemist21]

Considering he has done nothing else in this game though, wouldn't you agree it seems like he's trying to 'look useful without being so' which is exactly what he actually sumread Grapes for in the first place?

Not really. He saw an issue with grapes (and wasn't the only one) and acted on it. He's showing thoughts in a clear, concise manner that's making it possible for others to get a read on him, which is useful.

[Alchemist21]

Considering he has done nothing else in this game though, wouldn't you agree it seems like he's trying to 'look useful without being so' which is exactly what he actually sumread Grapes for in the first place?

Not really. He saw an issue with grapes (and wasn't the only one) and acted on it. He's showing thoughts in a clear, concise manner that's making it possible for others to get a read on him, which is useful.

So does this mean you are townreading IceGuy?

And since you unvoted Grapes, do you have any scumreads?

Yeah, that's what I said before. Haven't had a scumread since grapes, but I'll find scum soon enough.

[Alchemist21]

Spoiler: Comm Quote

So going through this one at a time.

Assemblerotws

- He's not being as serious as he was when he was mafia. It's sorta early, but I'm comfortable leaving him in TL for now.

Realeo

- As mentioned before he was already in my TL's. His recent play has gotten him in my first TR. He's not being as opportunistic as I'd believe him to be if he had an ulterior agenda to push.

Chip Butty

- His tone and posts so far are coming off as sorta try-hardy and like that he has to be serious all the time this game to prevent town's eyes to fall upon him or his potential partners. 76 particularly has me thrown aback a bit. Throughout the entire RVS stage he reads as being careful of when the game is about to go in serious mode and 76 reads to me as Assemble being a potential partner that I voted and it got him worried. Then his latest bit with Realeo of not even reading what Realeo said has dipped him into a SR. His play reads scum to me.

GameNBurger

- This is mostly gut from previous game with him, but he reads as trying to figure people out. So currently he feels genuine in actually wanting to solve some posts. Comfortable with TL for now.

ironstove

- Neutral, this guy literally has ONE post.

IceGuy

- Neutral. Nothing he's said has really impressed me in any way. But nothing has really popped out at me to say he's scum either. His push on grapes was awful though and he should feel bad about that one. In the same post as voting grapes he said "On the other hand, I'm not completely convinced that grapes is scum; I have this nagging feeling scum is sitting amongst the lurkers and laughing at how we're attacking ourselves." If this was your true feelings, a simple FOS of grapes would've done. However, even while thinking grapes isn't mafia, you voted him. So maybe the read is more null-scum than null-town. But it's still more neutral than null-scum so... that's what I think of IceGuy currently.

Luca Blight

- Another neutral. But I do like how he also noticed IceGuy's little "disclaimer" when voting grapes. If IceGuy is scum, Luca would gain some townie points for pointing it out when he didn't need to draw attention to it. (I mean I would've brought attention to it still, but he did it before this post which gives him some points if Ice is scum).

Duckworth/Riddleton

- 3 posts total. Nothing of substance. Neutral, but with how low they're laying, more toward null-scum. The difference between him and ironstove is that ironstove posted once and then left, these posts are sorta spread out to prodge but not add anything.

Mulch/Smoothblue

- SmoothBlue only got in one comment before being replaced. Of my experience with Mulch, I can't place a read on him yet. So for now neutral. I know the first time I played with him he spammed the thread like no tomorrow (had about 70 posts per day according to his profile at the time in case anyone is wondering just how much, which if you factor in wait time to join a game and it being his first game, that is a LOT of posts). He ended up being scum but he annoyed everyone. But he seems to have taken the advice of people who weren't being asshats to him and has settled down considerably. Which adds to not being able to read him yet because now that experience of him being scum is nulled by the drastic change in both activity and tone.

Alchemist21

- Null-Town. I want to say he's town this game. He's one of the most level-headed players I've played with and if he's town, he does a better job explaining my train of thought sometimes than even I do. At least in a way people can understand. The game we were joking about earlier was a game I deceived him as scum though and played a bit on his read of me to get the scum team through a day where I put myself on the lynch block with himself and one other. However, I'd assume if he's scum this game he'd be looking for payback for that game and thus would play in a way to trick my read on him. He's not stupid and I doubt he'll slip if he's scum. But for now, based on play and what I can currently work with, I'll say null-town. I'd be crazy to let him slip into my TR's this early on without being vetted a bit more.

grapes

- He has had reads a bit too quickly on many people and I believe that because of this he is actually being genuine. He's not trying to bullshit anyone. I believe he's just trying to sort people quickly and compared to Chip, his sorting feels a lot more genuine. So definitely a TL here.

CommKnight

- Obvious scum is obvious. Lynch him guys, he's making a wall post and having reads on everyone. This guy can't be trusted. 100% scum. Also OLT. He crumbed OLT! He's scum!

UnaBombH

- Currently a SL. His posts thus far have been scum-marining. His naked vote was bad. More focused on what people think of him rather than expressing his thoughts on others.

Finally,

PMysterious

- This is the mafia traitor. He helps kill people off at the end of each day and night and also knows who mafia is. I say maybe keep him around long enough for him to out mafia for us.

Alright, in case people didn't notice, two of my "reads" are jokes. But the rest are serious. It's where my train of thought is currently.

I think 4 TR/TL and 2 SR/SL is pretty good at this stage in the game. Most of my nulls have a null-_____ attached to them. I think between Una and Chip, we'll have one scum at least if not two. Won't be lynching in my TR/TL's today though. Only Nuls and SR/SL.

I was starting to worry you weren't ever going to give content but you finally delivered, and it makes up for it well enough that I'd say it makes you more likely Town. It's also brought Una to my attention as he's someone who I haven't really noticed in this game. Still can't completely trust you yet though.

[Alchemist21]

The whole dynamic between Chip, Comm, and Realeo seems like a case of people not understanding each other. Wouldn't call it AI either way for any of them.

[Alchemist21]

It's also brought Una to my attention as he's someone who I haven't really noticed in this game.

I have been rather quiet, yes, but it's mainly because I didn't want to take any part in...whatever happened in the past 5 pages.

I get a lot better when I have more interactions to evaluate, and these previous instances have been rather baffling.

I'm going to ISO a few players soon, I'll try to get something easier to chew for you guys.

Do you have any actual thoughts on the game currently? I looked back through your posts and it's all jokes and pointless posts. You must have some reads by now, even if they're weak.

VOTE: Unabombah

[Alchemist21]

Well, before I saw Luca point it out, I realized... I am a massive idiot. September 31st does not exist. (Way to go, me. Way to be a dummy.)

So, I will update the day to end on October 1st, instead.

You might look into using a countdown timer too.



(expired on 2017-10-01 10:00:00)

Code: Select all

[countdown]2017-10-01 10:00:00 -5.00[/countdown]

[Alchemist21]

Do you know that mafiascum is the only forum where my joke delivery rate is literally 0%?

FWIW I liked it.

[Alchemist21]

Do you have any actual thoughts on the game currently?

I looked back through your posts and it's all jokes and pointless posts.

You must have some reads by now, even if they're weak.

This part is the most important one: I'm not one to normally shitpost through the game.
I've been trying a new approach to day 1.

The thing is: I suck at early game reading because I don't "understand" tone.
I mainly read interactions, and this game had very few good ones in the first 5 pages or so.
I already admitted as much: they all felt very weird and instead of AI reads, I felt like some of it almost gave better indications on IQs..

In a game like this that has either a slower start, or interactions I can't read well enough to react, I now tried to pull the focus on my own actions.
Anyone who has been noting my behavior in a negative manner so far has been gaining some minor towncred from me.

The thing about scum is that they want players who aren't "gamesolve-y" to make it to the lategame, and therefore don't always latch onto people who post, but only "keep appearances".
And that is what I have been trying to create: fluff.

Alchemist

is my first townread simply because they took the step to call me out on it.
On the other hand, I DO have one scumlean based on how they put their vote on me.

IceGuy

voted after Alchemist had "bit the bullet" in making a base for a wagon, and instead of following his reasonable argument, IceGuy only said he is willing to vote all lurkers and just happened to choose me from amongst them.
And therefore I shall VOTE: IceGuy.

Slight townlean on

Luca Blight

for calling IceGuy out before I got to it. (and also the Suikoden thing, that actually affects my gameplay..)

I don't really like how you start claiming your fluff was fully intentional after getting called on it.

[Alchemist21]

On a serious note, I am having a hard time. I find the degree of scumminess of ChipButty is bolder than IceGuy, but I find IceGuy less likely to be town.

Using mathematical notation, on a spectrum of 0 to 1 for 0 is town, if the probability function of rolling town of both player is Gaussian distribution, median ChipButty < median IceGuy but standard deviation ChipButty > standard deviation Ice Guy.

I have to admit that I am

reddit/4chan-

a virgin.

Either for the better or the worse.

DAAAAMN. Just DAAAAAMN.

[Alchemist21]

In post 17, alignments/roles are capitalized, in post 155 they aren't. This could mean that there's more to post 17 than it meets the eye.

Alright I'm gonna play devil's advocate here on this one. Personally I always capitalize Town/Mafia/Specific role names, but I always lowercase the word "scum." It's a stylistic thing and non-indicative of anything, and I wouldn't assume deeper meaning from someone who does the same.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Assembrelowts

What's the reason for this vote?

[Alchemist21]

That's not really a whole paragraph, Chip. And I get what Realeo is saying there.

[Alchemist21]

His posting style gave me early problems too because he seemed to be asking a lot of questions that weren't helpful to the gamestate, but they could have been helpful to him and it's similar to how I used to play so I waited to see if it was just a playstyle issue. Since then his posts have given me a better feel for his thoughts and alignment and I think he's Town.

[Alchemist21]

@Realeo

How do you feel about Unabombah?

I'd be willing to move over to Assemble with Iceguy, but still prefer the unabombah vote and if you're willing to move over here I'd rather do that. Either way I think having all of us on the same wagon will make it a lot stronger.

[Alchemist21]

After 278 I've had Chip as "too entertaining to lynch today."

And in all seriousness 374 looks more Towny to me, and in the post before that, 369, the idea that he's being set up for a lynch looks like it comes from a state of Town paranoia.

[Alchemist21]

Hello, this is dog.

Good-bye.

Wake me up when it's day 2.

No, BAD DOG!

You get in here and play the game like the rest of us.

[Alchemist21]

@Luca

, I'm not really getting your push here. It seems like your original issue was that Ice moved Chip into his Townreads when he hadn't said anything positive about him, but since then you keep pointing out that Chip was listed first. Ice has stated the order wasn't indicative of the strength of those reads, and I'm not getting why you keep pressing the issue of the order of his Townreads over the fact that Chip is even a Townread to him at all.

[Alchemist21]

Hmm... Looking back at how it started does make it seem like there was fault in both parties. I think both of you made assumptions about the other and never tried to clarify. It still feels like you're the one keeping the order an issue though. He might be the one calling it misrep, but you're engaging with that part of the argument more than the existence of the Townread itself and it makes me think you're just trying to push him without considering why you're pushing him and it doesn't seem like a Towny thought process imo.

Spoiler: My reads

1. Assemblerotws / - scumlean

2. Realeo - Town

3. Chip Butty - Townlean

4. GameNBurger - null

5. ironstove / - null

6. IceGuy - Townlean

7. Luca Blight - scumlean

8. Duckworth - null

9. Mulch SmoothBlue - null

11. grapes / - Townlean

12. CommKnight - Town

13. UnaBombaH - scum

[Alchemist21]

On this site, my playstyle has always been about provoking others to commit/disengage and force interactions.
I like to fuel conversations, and pretend to be even more paranoid than I actually am (I mean I am, but not to the extent I seem to be)
Some players have therefore called me "mislynchable" or even "lynchbaity", but my gutreads have often been correct.

I only give this a skim and this seems to check out.

In the games where I join as replacement, I often get guiltied into changing my reads by more experienced players, because they devalue my logic or reads, but I have turned out to be correct multiple times now (even if I have failed in presenting the case).

Ah. Good time. I remember in my first Newbie game, I go head-to-head with a SE which is a confirmed-town in a MYLO with me choosing the right mafia. Did not back down, fortunately.

Did you see any times where Una fluffed until called on it and then claim it was his plan all along?

[Alchemist21]

I think Game is Town. His catchup had a good "sweet spot" for how much he went over. It wasn't so little that it looks like he skipped over everything, but not so much that I would call it a wall post that scum would want people to just be unable to parse completely. And I agree about hating Ironstove.

[Alchemist21]

You look at Una, I'm going to be glaring suspiciously at IceGuy.

Who was this even addressed to?

[Alchemist21]

According to my calculations, there is a 7.6% chance each of you are scum.

That odds that you're Kira are 10%, no, 5%.

[Alchemist21]

I'm gonna take some time to look at iceguy again but..

I got prodded.

Seems we haven't got long left.

I don't want to vote Una so I will vote iceguy instead as there doesn't appear to be any traction for a ChipButty or Grapes lynch.

VOTE: Iceguy

Can we lynch this instead guys?

I'm gonna take some time to look at iceguy again but..

I got prodded.

Seems we haven't got long left.

I don't want to vote Una so I will vote iceguy instead as there doesn't appear to be any traction for a ChipButty or Grapes lynch.

VOTE: Iceguy

Can we lynch this instead guys?

I'd lynch Duckworth in a heartbeat if there was support for it. Worried about the looming deadline though...

I'd also vote him if we can get it through before deadline.

[Alchemist21]

Hey alch

I have to go sleeping now - I honestly hope to be alive when I come back.
If you decide to lynch me during the time I'm not around, I want to give my honest top three scum-reads/guesses:
IceGuy
CommKnight
GameNBurger

Go for IceGuy D2 if I'm not around, that should give a ton of context as a flip, even if I'm wrong on my read on him.
There should be zero chance there's not a scum on my wagon if I get hammered. (currently there is a SMALL chance, but I doubt it)

You think this is a scum post?

It does seem more Towny that scummy in that it's trying to give Town something to go on after he dies and with the wagons being what they are I don't think Ice and Una could be scum together so it's not likely a distancing attempt. It could be an attempt to get sympathy but that's the only scummy thing about it. Seeing this post makes me more comfortable about switching to another wagon, I'm just not sure if we have the time for another wagon (16 and a half hours currently). Let's start the Duckworth wagon and see if we can get votes for it. I'll switch back if we can't.

VOTE: Duckworth

[Alchemist21]

I don't think Ironstove can find it in his heart to contribute to anything.

[Alchemist21]

Countdown timer is in post 2

[Alchemist21]

Well iron, you're more active it seems. Any other reads you'd like to share since you did fuckall last phase?

[Alchemist21]

So... After a shitty last-minute quicklynch onto a town player, a vig shoots a shitty shot at another town member. At least we have a confirmed vigilante active I guess. Out of 5-8 possible VTs we are now down to 2-5 as well. If my math is correct (hint: IT IS), then we have one more mislynch if we make use of the vig tonight to avoid MYLO. Which means before the end of today, we NEED a pool of 3 max people for the vig to shoot into and leave it up to them to decide which of the three is most likely scum. That MUST be decided before the day ends.

(grapes, Alchemist21, Iceguy, Luca Blight, Chip Butty, Assemblerotws, Duckworth)

^ The wagon. IceGuy and Duckworth are dead. (Which Duckworth should not have been able to hammer himself, he's bloody town!!! That's anti-win con!!!)

There's not one person on this wagon that was innocent as far as the mislynching went. They all rushed it within the final hours. Scum obviously was on it (as it'd have to be Una, Mulch and myself if this was a completely town wagon) and also this would be a bad town if it were only scum + Game that didn't vote for Duck.

Anyway, what I'm getting at here, this wagon is the group we're lynching from and from which I suggest we create the pool of 3 to shoot into.

So living members of the wagon are: grapes, Alchemist21, Luca Blight, Chip Butty and Assemblerotws. That's a group of 5, which means lynch one, pool of 3. Only one of them is going to be safe tonight. The remaining 3/4 will not. So perhaps to create the pool for our vigilante, we hunt for the towniest one who got on a stupid wagon.

I assume the vigilante agrees with my train of thought since IceGuy was on the wagon and mafia would want those off the wagon dead.

Also I'm in class at the moment and will be busy for a while today. So tonight I'll get into this a bit more. But this was a bad lynch.

Not a bad theory but what do we do it both the lynch and the vig hit Town? If we hit 1 scum do we keep going with the wagon or do we open the pool up again?

[Alchemist21]

Yea, I'll post up a reads list sometime after you lynch una.

Play the damn game.

[Alchemist21]

I guess the only positives to come out of all that are that the pool is considerably smaller, and we got some info from the flips. And we have a vig as has been pointed out, which could be good or bad fir town, it's up to us. I agree with whoever said IceGuy was likely the vig shot.

Specifics: I don't mind the CK vig pool idea but the pool should be chosen from the Duckworth wagon PLUS Mulch, who offered to hammer PLUS Realeo, who explicitly approved of it near the end.

Which brings me to a question: Realeo, why didn't you vote for anyone?

Mulch is probably my top scumpick right now. Not only did he offer to hammer Duckworth but he was strongly pushing IceGuy as the lynch. Unabomber has had a towner tone today and late d1 but his flip would provide a lot of association info.

Alch isn't looking quite as good to me today. It was he who got the Duckworth wagon started in earnest late d1. This only matters if Una is scum though. I'm thinking maybe lynch Una and definitely have Mulch in the vig shoot pool.

If you add those 2 you're making the pool nearly as big as the whole game. And does it really look like I was bussing Una to you?

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Una
That theory about Game being killed for his reads? Una was his strongest scumread, and my own reread also left me feeling Una is scum.
Also, the reason I was willing to join the flashwagon against Duckworth was to see how his flip would look for the people who started the flashwagon. Didn't get much out of it, though.

First line - makes sense.

Second line - makes no sense.

Why would you join a wagon just to see what it does to the others on the wagon?

[Alchemist21]

So I stop by to read before I'm off to work, and I have three votes (would be 4/6 but mulch changed).
If at least one of them isn't scum after I said I can mainly just read for two days, likely not make any huge posts, Im surprised.

If I were to be scum, I would have known IceGuy to be town.
So do tell me, why would I shout my throat sore for a 1v1 with him ON DAY 1?
Lynching him was a possibility UNTIL Duck wagon took wind. (I guess so were I, but you might get the point soon)
I don't have time to even check, but there is one scum in the very start of Ducks wagon. (Vote1 or Vote2)
Because scums plan was to feed me vs Ice today and force another mislynch D2.
THAT is why Duck was the lynch.
THAT is why I know Ice was vigged.

Will try to read and post tomorrow.

Scum can and do get into 1v1's with Town. I'd be shocked if you honestly don't know this by now.

[Alchemist21]

lynch una then maybe chip n butts.

Oh great. Now I'm agreeing with

Cell

Vegeta

Ironstove. Look what you people made me do!

Let me read the rest of these posts and see which I want to vote for though, because I'm still not sure which I want today tbh.

[Alchemist21]

One of Alch/Comm might have to be scum at this point - yesterday I thought it was Comm, but now I'm back to 50/50 because of Ice's flip.

What Assemble said, and LOL. Riiight. Gotta be me or Alch right, at least one of us.

VOTE: Una

I wanted you dead yesterday and then the quick-lynch happened on Duck. You're not escaping this time.

Passing by again.
I just think GameNBurger was a weird kill over either of you, but maybe it's just me?

Also: how does no one think it weird that scum!Una would kill EITHER Ice or Game?
Especially Ice, but I think that was the vig.
Seriously, I don't have time until tomorrow or Sunday, but think about the night actions from scum!Una perspective.
Think about me tunneling Ice as hard as I did, why would I throw my everything into one specific lynch DAY 1?

There would be 1-2 others also giving input on the NK.

It's also possible that instead of being with the normal scum you are a Traitor and a member of the Rebel Alliance. Take him away!

VOTE: Una

L-1

[Alchemist21]

If you add those 2 you're making the pool nearly as big as the whole game. And does it really look like I was bussing Una to you?

Why is that a problem? Nobody is cleared yet, so we can all go in the vig pool as far as i'm concerned. And the good thing about the modified CK proposal is that it is objective. Those on the wagon plus Mulch who said he would hammer plus Realeo who said he was down with the lynch. Once we start making exceptions based on subjective impressions, that goes out the window.

We should probably get this pool thing sorted befote hammering lol. Too late after...

It's a fairly large pool as is but works on the basis of PoE. Adding in a couple extra works backwards from the E part.

[Alchemist21]

The fact your saying that it's a reaction test is also scummy.

Not at all. I was hoping for all the hat tipping, self-voting, ragescreaming antics I've seen from scum.Mulch elsewhere.

I hat tipped because I was policy checked by 3 fucking town power roles in the night and was fucked by mechanics. Not becaause I got pressure on me. There was literally no way for me to get out of it lmao. I'm collected and calm under pressure as scum a lot of the time, sometimes I use appeal to emoition when all else fails. I also do this as town though, so...

3 PR's in one night? :lol

And I thought I was screwed over when I was a Godfather and a Cop still got a Guilty on me because they were a Paranoid Cop.

[Alchemist21]

You said those on the wagon are scummy and those off the wagon are scummy

We all know scum can be on or off the wagon. I'm pointing to people who stand out in some way. Note that CK LAMISTly points to his noninvolvement in the DW lynch.

You know you've thrown a lot of shade at the people outside the proposed vig pool. I'm thinking you might be scum that's afraid you'll be the one getting vigged.

[Alchemist21]

I think ironstove is lock town. I also don't think you should shoot him. He's not old yeller.

Ok, you actually made me laugh here.

Nicely improvised blade runner quote.

So, my take on the whole interaction between mulch vs chip and butts is that they're not both scum.

I think flipping una will provide information based on who supported and resisted it. I see two potential groups forming based on una's flip.

My fear is that if una flips town, this makes me look bad because I was the first to vote for him and pushed for his lynch. I don't think he's town though.

So if una flips scum, I would think mulch, commknight, or realo could be scum based on amount of resistance generated by them to save una.

If una flips town, I'm not sure. I could see alchemist, chip and butts, or assemble being in the scum group.

I think commknight's 792 trying to direct the vig shot is something I generally see scum players trying to do. Town players who do this tend to be big-dick type players but comm has not really played in that style, so it appears to be more motivated from the standpoint of a scum trying to get vig to shoot town/not shoot scum.

So with that said, if una flips scum, I'm feeling a commknight lynch and one could make the point that chip and I are most likely town because of this 'attempt' to direct the vig.

Tell me if anything I said sounds crazy. I don't think so, I don't have rabies.

Holy shit you're playing the game! Thank you.

I agree with you on Mulch vs Chip and am thinking Chip is the scum.

Comm is definitely a big-dick type of player though.

[Alchemist21]

I felt very desperate at the start of D2, but I'm feeling very confident in having 2/3 scum in CommKnight/Mulch/Assembletrows.
Assemble likely being the traitor, considering his D1 speculations on the role.

How confident were you on Mulch before 934? This seems like quite a fast read-flip on top of an oddly specific reachout.

[Alchemist21]

How confident were you on Mulch before 934? This seems like quite a fast read-flip on top of an oddly specific reachout.

You misunderstood me: I haven't changed my read on mulch yet.
It says above "IF I were to accept" mulch as town, THEN the following apply.
I still think my earlier list is more likely.

This is what you said:

This feels like town!mulch, as far as I am concerned.

If I were to accept that as a fact:

Realeo is the lockedest of Townies ( ), Grapes right behind him.
I would have to still keep valuing between scum!Comm and scum!Alch. I can't shake the feeling there's one scum there, and since mulch doesn't scumread either, I don't have any help there.
Assemble gains more scum-points since mulch agrees there.
Chip and Iron are the ones I'm most conflicted on already, but I don't think they are necessarily scum for pushing me, but ONE OF THEM WOULD HAVE TO BE, if all of the above apply.
Unless I have locked Luca as town too early?

Although I townread this post from mulch, I flat out disagree with few of his reads.
I wanted his opinion and "rating" of Alch because I really need to sort that slot.

You straight-up said you were Townreading that post. Don't backtrack and say it was all just you playing around with a hypothetical, because it was based in you supposedly Townreading Mulch.

[Alchemist21]

You also still have not explained why you reached out to Mulch specifically.

[Alchemist21]

UNVOTE:

Let me put forth a theory. Alchemist, Realeo and I are spared to create a "town bloc". Perhaps there is someone else who was trying to enter the bloc. Now this would actually lead me to look at Alchemist in him wanting to get payback for our last game together. Plus this game he doesn't quite seem as involved or in depth as he was in our last two games together where he was town both times.

We have plenty of time to still work some things out, but I'm still comfortable with Chip and Iron being in the pool. Just questioning whether to go through with lynching Una and aiming for grapes or Luca for now.

But I think Alchemist, Realeo and Mulch are all off the table today. That at least lowers the pool to 6 right now. If I put Iron and Chip off the table and maybe even just say Una is the third for the pool and leave those 3 up to the vig to shoot. Then we lynch into Assemble/Luca/grapes. Either way, with 6 main suspects on today's agenda, I think if we do 3 in the lynch pool and 3 in the vig pool. it'd be better for us.

Does anyone disagree with that?

If not, then the question is, who should we leave to the vig to decide in and who should we leave for the town to decide in.

I disagree with moving Una to the vig pool instead of outright lynching him. I'm tired right now and can't put 100% of my mental focus on this plan, but beyond what I just said I don't see a problem with it.

[Alchemist21]

Prod received.

Did anyone else enjoy the Battlefront II Beta this past week?

As for Una's "clarification" to my point I pointedly didn't respond to it because I thought it was obvious how bad it was and didn't feel like arguing with scum about why they're scum.

He

still

tried to claim he was only hypothetical with that Mulch Townread despite explicitly stating he was Townreading him, and his evidence that he wasn't actually Townreading Mulch is that he disagreed with Mulch's reads. Dude needs rope, plain and simple.

[Alchemist21]

How confident were you on Mulch before 934? This seems like quite a fast read-flip on top of an oddly specific reachout.

You misunderstood me: I haven't changed my read on mulch yet.
It says above "IF I were to accept" mulch as town, THEN the following apply.
I still think my earlier list is more likely.

This is what you said:

This feels like town!mulch, as far as I am concerned.

If I were to accept that as a fact:

Realeo is the lockedest of Townies ( ), Grapes right behind him.
I would have to still keep valuing between scum!Comm and scum!Alch. I can't shake the feeling there's one scum there, and since mulch doesn't scumread either, I don't have any help there.
Assemble gains more scum-points since mulch agrees there.
Chip and Iron are the ones I'm most conflicted on already, but I don't think they are necessarily scum for pushing me, but ONE OF THEM WOULD HAVE TO BE, if all of the above apply.
Unless I have locked Luca as town too early?

Although I townread this post from mulch, I flat out disagree with few of his reads.
I wanted his opinion and "rating" of Alch because I really need to sort that slot.

You straight-up said you were Townreading that post. Don't backtrack and say it was all just you playing around with a hypothetical, because it was based in you supposedly Townreading Mulch.

You also still have not explained why you reached out to Mulch specifically.

OK, have a while to post again.

You straight-up said you were Townreading that post. Don't backtrack and say it was all just you playing around with a hypothetical, because it was based in you supposedly Townreading Mulch.

I wasn't backtracking on anything..?
I said "If I were to accept" = I'm not automatically/fully accepting mulch as town, I just think his response to me was genuine.
I don't think it's out of his scum-plays range to produce town-flavored posts here and there as scum, but that specific post FELT genuine.
So I made a hypothetical list with him as town, because I wanted to clear my thoughts on how it would affect my own readslist.
Notice how I say in the end of that same post "Although I townread

this post

from mulch,

I flat out disagree with few of his reads.

"

I feel like Alch is refusing to give me a fair assessment, and is only sticking to his current read.
Even though it can be stubborn NAI, I dislike it anyway.

My call out and his responses. Everything relevant is quoted or in the quote pyramids. Also worth pointing out that in the very next post after he says he disagrees with Mulch's reads and used that as a reason to try to say he's not Townreading Mulch, he says he trusts Mulch's reads.

You also still have not explained why you reached out to Mulch specifically.

I wanted his opinion and "rating" of Alch because I really need to sort that slot.

I trust his reads, and in the scenario where he is scum, he risks exposing himself if he is forced to give a read.

I disagree with moving Una to the vig pool instead of outright lynching him.

..because you have realized I will not be vigged? I shouldn't be the lynch, period.

[Alchemist21]

Yes, I enjoyed the Battlefront II Beta. Man oh man, I need to figure out the point system better for unlocking the super units. Because here I'll be using my assault class and getting everyone with grenades, shotgun and suppression gun fire, have the most kills in the game and still someone has like triple my points (on the Naboo map). I ended up preordering the game. The campaign alone was what was gonna get me. Them not having campaign last time sorta made the value much lower for me to enjoy it. Still would've liked to see some version of galatic conquest though like from the original Battlefront II, but oh well, it's DICE for ya.

The campaign looks like it's gonna be awesome, but since it's DICE probably a 5 hour one.

If people were tripling your points then they were probably the only one firing off disrupters since you get 200 for picking one up and 500 for shooting it. And there was this one spot at the end where you could just camp and keep spamming the disruptors at the MTT. It's something that really needs to be fixed for launch.

[Alchemist21]

Ah damn, well the times I am talking about is usually when I'm playing as droids. Not sure where they're getting the points from. I've killed disruptor carriers but they still outpace me in points on my own team. XD

Also I like the fact that each time you spawn in you actually spawn in with up to 3 others to create your new temporary squad with boosted xp (Oooh that might be a reason too).

We still have time left to decide the vote, but right now it's still hovering over Una. Unless we can get a better case to follow and not just emotional stuff.

Not sure where extra points for the Droids were coming from. Teamplay bonuses are hard to get because you have to practically be touching your teammates to get them. Could have been someone getting a ton of kill assists I guess.

[Alchemist21]

Could this not be said about any other player in this game? Why is it specific to you?

You are correct in that.
I was rather annoyed when I wrote that, so if Alch finds any scumslips in that post, I guess they must true.

Not a scumslip, but it is a useless defense.

[Alchemist21]

ck is verified scum. assumble + ck are scum.

Why do you think CK is scum?

[Alchemist21]

The time remaining for every phase will always be on the original post, and based on that right now, there is a little over a day left.

I thought there'd be like 5.

[Alchemist21]

VOTE: Comm

[Alchemist21]

Good game.

[Alchemist21]

I'm fine with the PT being released.

I also seriously thought Iron was the vig. I can't believe he played his D1 the way he did as a VT. My PR reads were all backwards in this game.

[Alchemist21]

FIRST

Dammit!

VOTE: Realeo

VOTE: Alchemist - He's gotta be scum one of these games. He's not going to be town every game!!!

If I ever do roll scum in a game with you I'll have to make sure to pay you back for Micro 725.

I'll consider the lylo quickhammer that happened as payback though.

[Alchemist21]

At least do more on your D1's. You were pretty much a non-entity.